6:25pm: Houston may actually be setting its sights elsewhere at the moment, according to Jon Heyman of Fan Rag (Twitter links). Indeed, he says it’s not even clear if the sides are engaged presently in “serious talks.”
He adds that the Athletics have “named their price” on Gray with the Yankees. While there’s no indication that those two clubs are near to a deal, that certainly suggests it’s still an open situation.
10:28am: Trade talks between the Astros and Athletics pertaining to Sonny Gray are “heating up,” according to MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (Twitter links). Morosi adds that while Houston is in talks with the A’s, the Astros are also maintaining interest in trying to work out a deal that would net both Justin Verlander and Justin Wilson from the Tigers.
Rumors connecting the Astros to Gray date back to the offseason and have been persistent throughout the regular season. The Astros’ roster lacks a clear need, though most reports indicate that if they’re to make a splash, it’d be for someone that could step into the postseason rotation. Gray certainly fits that bill, as he’s rebounded from a triceps injury in 2016 and a lat strain earlier this season to look more and more like his old self in recent months.
Over the past two months, Gray has made 11 starts and totaled 68 1/3 innings with 9.0 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 54.9 percent ground-ball rate. The resulting 3.56 ERA is solid but appears unspectacular, however the Athletics have also backed Gray with one of baseball’s worst defenses. Fielding-independent metrics like FIP (2.87) and xFIP (3.12) are much more bullish. It’s also worth noting that Gray’s past month has been especially impressive, as he’s posted a 1.62 ERA in his past 33 1/3 innings across five starts.
If talks with the Athletics do come to a head, the Astros will be getting a boost not only for their 2017 postseason chances but also through the 2019 season. Gray is earning just $3.575MM in 2017 — a slight silver lining resulting from last year’s injury troubles — and will be eligible for arbitration twice more before hitting the open market in the 2019-20 offseason. He’d slot into the Houston rotation behind 2015 Cy Young winner Dallas Keuchel and righty Lance McCullers, who are controlled through 2018 and 2021, respectively.
The talks for Verlander and Wilson are another story entirely, as the hurdles involved with a potential Verlander trade have been well documented by this point. The 34-year-old Verlander is having a down season with more than $65MM owed to him through the 2019 season, and he also has a full no-trade clause that would allow him to veto any deal. The Tigers wouldn’t be able to both shed Verlander’s salary and command a significant prospect return for him, and given his status as an icon in Detroit, it’d be a tough sell to the fans to simply move him to shed his contract.
Adding Wilson to the talks would obviously sweeten the pot and could allow the Detroit front office to extract a more lucrative return, though they could potentially do better simply by trading Wilson in a standalone deal. Interest in the dominant setup-man-turned-closer has been extremely strong this month, and he stands out as Detroit’s best trade chip. Unlike J.D. Martinez, an excellent player that nonetheless commanded a lukewarm return due to a lack of a market for his services, more than a third of the league could conceivably have legitimately strong interest in Wilson.
What’s the package going to look like?
Gray for that altuve fella…i heard the stros want to field a taller team 😐
I got a slight laugh outta this. but not an lol for me. decent to solid comment.
I’ll trade last years 9th rounder and cash considerations for it
Sonny Gray is only 5’10”. They wouldn’t gain much.
A couple inches goes a long way. Ask any woman!
+1
Astros are going from small ball to tall ball
Almost had beer come out of my nose on that one
if Wilson and verlander go to Detroit Fisher is the headliner of that package and could also see the tigers interested in daz Cameron or Yordan alvarez
Wilson and Verlander are in Detroit.
Verlander Wilson and JD Martinez for gray
Is Arizona getting involved in the trade?
JD is a dback now.
Moran, Kemp, Preston Tucker, Teoscar Hernandez, Sipp, Greggerson, Feliz, Reed, Stassi, and White.
I’d give them ALL up for Gray. They don’t have a place on the current or future astros. A 10 for 1 deal? The A’s could have almost have a new starting 9 next year from the trade.
That is such an appealing offer for Oakland. Giving up all that trash for just one player. How does Beane say no to that offer?
With the exception of the pitching and catching, that’s a good deal. Tucker, Moran, Kemp and Hernandez could all hit about 250 I’m the majors. They are all cheap, relatively young, and one or two has the chance to become an above average player on a low market team that can be further flipped to get someone else later. They are all blocked in Houston because… well… the team is stacked.
How many Playoff wins does Sonny Gray have? ZERO!
Sonny started Gm 2 of the 2013 ALDS and outpitched Justin Verlander (the best pitcher in MLB at the time) going 8 IP, 9 SO, 2 BB, 4 H and 0 ER. The A’s won the game in the Bottom of the 9th on a Stephen Vogt walk-off single.
They should have won that 2013 ALDS and marched to the WS, some very bad luck. Sonny was excellent and was only 23 years old. The next year, in 2014, Sonny Gray clinched the A’s a WC berth with his Game 162 performance versus Texas, going complete game shut-out: 5 SO, 0 BB, 0 ER.
In his opportunities to shine, he has. Kid is a gamer. Excuse the cliche, but he is.
The problem is that it’s been 3 Years since those performances. How’s he been since?
Well, in 2015 he finished 3rd in Cy Young, so now you are two years removed from elite pitching.
2016 was an injury plagued year coupled with the A’s atrocious defense (during year 1 of Oakland A’s first rebuild since the late 90’s) and now, in 2017, he is basically back to 2013-2015 Sonny Gray.
how is his number of playoffs wins relevant? small sample, bad stat, arbitrary logic….
that is really a terrible point.
too much for Houston , ,Get some close to Grey but Cheaper !
It’s “Gray” and there is no one comparable on the block.
Yeah trade talks were “heating up” between the White Sox and Red Sox for Frazier the other day and we see how that worked for Boston.
Go Yankees!! Brought home the Todd-father!! Better yet, returned Houdini back to where he belongs in the Bronx and Kahnle is the icing on the cake!! 🙂
yeah but still no starting pitching
That is why they aquired bullpen help. The starting pitching available sucks.
Still no starting pitchers lol
The Todd Frazier trade for the Yankees made no sense. Bringing the extra bullpen help was a necessity but they did not need another third basemen who can’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. With is .206 batting average, sure his power numbers are better than headley but I would not consider it much if an upgrade at the hot corner. They are still in the market for a first basemen which was a main point along with fining another starter, so I don’t really see the good in the trade besides the bullpen help, which they could have got for less the price
One will likely play at 3B and the other at 1B. Headley/Frazier aren’t playing that bad (plus the lack of a 1B option) to say that only one is playing at a time. If Frazier was just going to push Headley to the bench/come off the bench himself, the Yankees likely wouldn’t have taken him in the first place.
my friends uncle’s coworker said he knows the astros groundkeeper who knows a guy in the gm’s office who said this is going to happen.
i know him too. you talking about Shaun right? that guy is such a jokester.
remember that time he …..
He also told me that Ferris passed out at 31 Flavors last night.
Time for Theo to swoop in!
A-Rod all over again
Not that I’m too angry about that at this point
If the braves are gonna get him they need to start talking if we lose to the dodgers tonight we need to pick up the pace
I don’t get why Braves fans act like they’re contenders this year. Just like the Brewers, they’re building for 2019. Why trade prospects in a non-contending year, even if he’s controllable? Gray will be an Astro.
That is looking for the future nobody said anything about contending
except you’re paying for this year, which you wont be using. It makes little to no sense to outbid a contender who will not only get the benefits in the future but will also get the benefit of gray for the second half, and more importantly, the playoffs.
it does becausr he has the 2nd Year. no it would be dumb to trade prospects for a rental of you’re the braves but trading guys with term makes a ton of sense. you trade now, and try and compete next year. If you’re out of it next year you try and flip Gray.
Except in the case of controllable starters you are not paying just for this year. Their price not likely to decline much at all in the offseason especially if you factor in more suitors bidding. They might also view Gray as a better alternative to other pitchers made available in the offseason.
But yeah I agree with the fact that the Braves shouldn’t trade for a starter at all, I just understand why they are looking.
Do you watch braves games at all
If you would you’d know we are trying to get prospects for Jaime who is gonna fill that void please tell me because Jamie will not be a brave after July 31
Watch Teheran pitch a few games and you’ll see why we are in the hunt for a starter. It’s a problem when your most consistent starter is filling out his AARP membership.
“Their price not likely to decline much at all in the offseason ” uh, what? Teams certainly pay more for a guy they can use in 2 playoff races vs. just 1.
“Teams certainly pay more for a guy they can use in 2 playoff races vs. just 1.”
Sonny Gray isn’t a FA until 2020. Plus I was talking about controllable starters. Assuming controllable is understood as having more than 1 year remaining on their contracts.
So If we were to assume that the As don’t trade Gray right now, let him finish the season and then move him at the winter meetings that he wouldn’t command a return equal to what a team would have to pay right now? How many ace caliber pitchers will be available this offseason? How many more teams will be in on the bidding? Do the math.
Because they’d get to use him in 3 playoff runs instead of just 2? That’s absolutely gonna bump his price up compared to the offseason. That’s why trade deadline deals are usually overpays for controllable guys.
Yes trade deadline deals are usually overpays. But the market for SP isn’t going to go stale after the world series. If he makes it to the winter meetings I think the asking price for Gray would be the same assuming he stays healthy and pitches well. Case in point, look at what it took Boston to get Chris Sale. I would argue they could’ve gotten him with that exact same package at the trade deadline last year if he had been available then.
The real motivating issue for clubs to trade pitchers right now is risk, especially in the case of Gray who has dealt with injury concerns over the last two seasons.
Except the Braves might really like Sonny and this is likely their last chance to get him.
I agree that the Braves won’t make the playoffs this year but trading for a starter with a couple years of control after this one isn’t the worst idea for them. They want to contend this year and next and Sonny WILL help them do that.
grey is a free agent after 2019 I believe. so you think trading 6 controllable years of a handful of likely good prospects for (let’s be honest) a SP in 2019 is a good idea?
they will be .500ish in 2018. gray is a SP. SP are damn near as risky as propects. too much risk, not enough reward. if you go the route of controllable young SP, go for fulmer.
3 vs 2 playoff races is a good point. however, more teams may think they are contenders in the off season. more teams bidding also drives the price up.
I don’t know why the Braves would make this trade. To many young pieces to trade Acuna, Albies, or Maitan for a SP. They will have payroll flexibility to go after Arrieta or Darvish in FA & see how their young players develop.
Umm…Arrieta and Darvish will not be worth much of what they sign for. Darvish continues to have injury issues while Arrieta continues to not be good. Braves FO want young control and are willing to pay prospects for it, more so than the risk of free agent dollars. Eventually that will change, but we are still trying to figure out our long term pieces, and those 2 won’t be one of them.
Stop it
We won’t make any deals, and we won’t get anyone decent to help us next season.
I’m going to laugh my ass off when we win the division next season and get eliminated in the NLDS again because we lack a leader on our pitching staff. Just like 2010, 12, and 13.
The braves have lost in the playoffs before with Hall of Fame pitching staffs
Verlander? That’d be a haul, would he waive this ntc?
I’d assume he’d waive it. he wants a ring now. Houston has a good shot for the next few years. Detroit does not
What would Houston give up for JV and Wilson?
Fisher, Paulino, Alvarez
Detroit would have to eat some money for that to happen (also not sure anyone wants Paulino rn)
his value is low because of the suspension thus why I think he gets included. a good prospect who was a top 100 prospect this year who’s value is lower because of his stupidity.
And yes certainly tigers can eat some.money but probably not much. the package is similar to Quintana and verlander comes with wilson
Can Paulino be traded while he is suspended?
If you wanted to argue his value is low because of the suspension, couldn’t someone just as easily argue that his value was high because of the steroids?
not arguing his value, since he probably has the best curveball the organization has seen since Wandy Rodriguez. I’m seriously asking if an MLB team is allowed to trade a player while they are suspended.
Not a chance the Tigers get that for JV unless they eat at least half his contract. You can’t compare him to Quintana when Quintana is in his prime and signed for well below market value.
Its an assumption. The only thing JV doesnt wanna be apart of is a full rebuild. Dont spread rumors
Gray is gunna take Tucker to get started. Do they part with him?
Considering the Astros absolutely dont need Tucker in the short or long term, I’d think so….but who knows what Beane will do, he’ll probably trade him for nothing, smh
How do u they not need Tucker in the long run? Only 2 of the 3 OF spots are locked up for multi years. Now if you’re saying they don’t need both Fisher and Tucker then yes that makes sense.
I think that was what was implied, grant Tucker is probably a better fielder than Fisher so the idea would be for internal options long term to have Fisher and Tucker rotating between DH and RF.
Because Nori Aoki and Carlos Beltran have those DH and LF spots locked up for the long term?
Considering the Astros were reluctant in offering Tucker for Quintana, a pitcher with better value than Gray, I don’t think so. Have you been paying attention to the Astros news?
no! you can have Martes and Fisher
Fisher looks about 44 years-old. Beane is on record as wanting high upside prospects and young major leaguers, not dads with kids already in college.
Fisher is one of the best power speed combos in th minors. He is absolutely high upside.
why am I here. that one flew right over your head.
Well then that’s one of the most athletic 44 year olds in Baseball.
@Astros2333 and @whyamihere He’s making a joke about the nba derek fisher
When did Beane go on record saying that? I’d like to read exactly what he said. I sure don’t remember any such comment.
sfgate.com/athletics/article/Billy-Beane-insists-A…
No one wants Martes or Hernandez. They are filler in my opinion, not headliners.
Fisher and either Teoscar or Daz gets the ball rolling if they don’t want to include Tucker. With a couple other pieces thrown in obviously. Oakland is so devoid of OF prospects that getting 2 very strong ones would make up for missing out on Tucker, who of course would be their initial target.
Luckily for the A’s, Gray can be traded to any team that wants him and isn’t limited to what the Astros are willing to offer.
Obvoiusly they are not limited to what Houston offers, but if Hou is not willing to give up Tucker they can still offer Fisher who is in the top 100, and Daz or Teoscar who are just outside, along with Martes or Paulino (also top 100 prospects). Where else are they going to get a top 100 SP, top 100 OF, and another guy just outside the top 100?
Daz is absolutely nowhere near the top 100. He’s barely maaaaybe top 100 in the astros system.
Brewers, Twins, Dodgers, and Yankees all could do that, and aren’t in the same division.
Unless you’re counting Frazier the Yanks could not. and neither could Minnesota. Brewers and Dodgers technically could, but without completely destroying their farm systems they couldn’t. Houston could do it ans still have so decent pieces.
One of the mid-season top 100 updates (maybe BA or BP? Don’t remember) had both Teoscar and Daz on the list of guys to watch.
Daz Cameron is not just outside the top 100. Maybe when he was drafted, but not anymore. He didn’t even make the Astros top ten for most publications. He has no plus tools, and so far has struggled at the plate. His .243 average is better than the .212 he posted last season, but a 25% strikeout rate means he’s many years away if he does make the majors.
Teoscar Hernandez probably just makes the 200, not just outside the top 100. He’s already 24 and projects as a 4th outfielder if he puts it all together.
Derek Fisher may be top 100, but at #70 (MLB) and #54 (BA), he’s no Tucker (#11 at BA, #27 at MLB).
Francis Martes has posted a 4.90 ERA and 1.71 WHIP in 60.2 innings between AAA and the MLB this year. He’s been bumped to #48 on Baseball America’s updated top 100.
Paulino WAS a top 100 prospect until he allowed 21 runs in 29 innings this season and was then suspended for PED’s.
If you could throw a bunch of mediocre prospects to land a top player, we’d be seeing a lot more ten for one trades.
There’s a reason Chris Sale cost Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech and not Blake Swihart, Henry Owens, Brian Johnson, Deven Marrero, Sam Travis, Trey Ball, Marco Hernandez, Roniel Raudes, and CJ Catham.
When they’re dealing TOTR starters, they want future stars.
Unless the Astros offer Tucker, the Brewers (Brinson, Ray, Hader) and Dodgers (Verdugo, Buehler, Alvarez) can beat their offer with high end talent. If nobody wants to give up high end talent, the Cubs and Yankees can still beat the Astros offer with more depth.
Beane said he’s not targeting players by position (which is very weird). So, them being devoid of OF means absolutely nothing in terms of what he wants. He wants high ceiling/high risk guys. I agree Tucker fits that, but just saying, I wouldn’t be surprised if 4 pitchers come back for Gray either.
Teoscar and Daz both fit his young, high-ceiling profile and while he may say that they are not focusing on positions, even Billy has to realize that they have 1 OF anywhere near the top rankings in their system and even he is a 18 year old wild card.
beane seems to hoard the best players he can find and worry about positions later (either a positional move or trading from a position of depth when it’s critical).
it makes sense. prospects change positions all the time. you see a lot of SS and CF drafted because they are athletic. if you’re 21 and already so unathletic you can only play 1B, you probably aren’t worth a roster spot.
Gray is absolutely not worth Tucker. And Tucker isn’t being moved. Luhnow continues to reiterate that.
Guy who hasn’t played in MLB is never worth more than a guy who has finished 3rd in Cy Young voting in his career. Please just stop doing this, prospects are never worth what fans think they are and absolutely ZERO prospects are untouchable in trades. .
A prospect is worth however much one views them. If you strongly believe that a prospect will indeed be more valuable than the piece you’re trading for, then it’s completely ok to not want to deal them. Next off season, Tucker could very well be a top 5 prospect. and I agree I’m not really sure Gray is worth that. Remember, all players in the majors were prospects once. To say no prospect is untouchable is an impetuous view of them.
Porcello won a Cy Young last year. Would you trade the As top prospect for him?
RA Dickey won a Cy Young. What’s he worth?
You need to please stop with demeaning comments, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
NEW FLASH!!!! Your Not Mr Baseball! and certainly not in charge!
Feel free to think the fans are crazy, but who cares about your opinion when the astros fans can back up their statement since the GM has said Tucker is not available. What they offered was not close to what the Cubs offered for Quintana, which means no Tucker since that’s their closest prospect to Eloy. Quintana has more value than Gray. Put the 2 together
Rocky7
*You’re* not Mr. Baseball.
Gray is absolutely worth Tucker. Look at his track record, age, and advanced stats. He’s a stud, would slide in at the #1 or 2 spot in the rotation. I would start him over Keuchal in Game 1
1. I would start any major league pitcher over Keuchal, since as far as I know there are no players named Keuchal.
2. Thank god you aren’t AJ Hinch.
Yes and no depending on how Lunhow views Tucker. In the tradional sense yes, it would be like cloning Lance McCullers in the rotation. But if Lunhow has really bought in thinking he is the next Cody Bellinger or George Springer it would have to be someone he absolutely needs right now in order to win and frankly the Astros don’t absolutely need Gray as much as his addition would help stabilize an overworked bullpen by moving Peacock , Fiers and/or Morton to the pen.
Hopefully not. I’d propose Martes, Fisher, Sierra, and Reed. Hopefully Luhnow can get a low level player from Billy along with Gray. Three of those players can go on their active roster now and then they can trade Alonso.
Why would the A’s take AJ Reed?
Because he’s a controlable 1B something the A’s don’t have.
You also think Martes is a filler, yet he’s the #1 prospect, not to mention the Astros have the THIRD best farm system according to Baseball America. Do some research before you comment.
Your an idiot, the A’s have Healy, Chapman and Olsen already starting to hit at the Major League level. For now on, can you do your research before you throw out your garbage proposals?
@Astros2333, Sorry, it looks like someone is trying to impersonate me. Besides the attacks on you, he was right though. We already have three major league ready 1B, although, Healy is primarily a 3B.
If somebody trys to impersonate you with a name so close to yours makes me SMH. How sad their life must be to pretend to be some stranger on a baseball board. That is the definition of pathetic.
Yanks will jump in and grab Gray for package centered around Jorge Mateo and others wouldn’t be surprised if we trade Betances to get a pitcher.
Centered around Mateo, Florial, and 2 other pitching prospects like Littell and Guzman
Fellow Yankee fan, and a package with Mateo as the lead won’t get Gray.
These prospects Houston have aren’t that much better than guys that we have let’s not make it seem like the Astros prospects are out of this world good because they aren’t.
The ones the A’s would want from the Astros are definitely better then Mateo.
Try Torres as the headliner or maybe Clint Frazier. Yankees prospect as so overrated it’s hard to see what’s real and what’s not.
Astros have tremendous depth at OF within their farm system. Both the Astros and Yankees have the minor league talent to acquire any player that is available on the market. Having said that, the Astros do match up better with the A’s based on need.
So far Clint Frazier looks pretty good yeah sure all of our prospects are overrated like you would know lol I didn’t know you were our scout keeping track of the guys.
So your telling me the Astros and Yankees have the prospects but a team like the braves that have the best farm in baseball doesn’t
Had,did have!
Buddy might wanna do some research
Your not too plugged in to what skills Torres possess and how they’re valued at this time, and for Gray, an unknown commodity as far as durability is concerned, certainly ain’t happening!
And most likely Clint Frazier won’t see the minors again with the Yankees. Although even he did, there is no way he’s being traded for Gray as the headliner to any package.
It’s possible that another package might be enticing, but most likely the Astros, or Cubs are a bit more hungry than the Yankees at this time based on what they feel they wish to offer.
Knowing the Yankees and how they’ve fleeced teams over the past year, it’ll be Sheffield and a hot dog for Gray and Alonso.
Try looking at Swansons graduation,and what the White Sox added.
Acuna is a T5 MLB prospect, and he’s basically taking Swanson’s place as our top prospect after nearly being omitted last year. Most of the pitchers (Allard and Soroka especially) took leaps forward while Giolito slid backward heavily. Braves is still a better system than CWS pal
Look at news buddy even with Swanson graduated we still have best farm system in majors by multiple sources and nobody said anything about white sox
White sox do have a great farm system until the new rankings come out braves have the best
One Player doesn’t mean best farm system
Yankees have a loaded farm system. They may be overrated in your eyes.
Braves clearly have the best farm system 1-30, but I’d say that the White Sox have less quantity, but much higher quality. And then the Yankees, I don’t even seeing their farm being top 10. One player doesn’t make it better than all the other ones. The entire Yankees farm is way overrated, unlike the A’s, we have a way underrated farm.
Let us know when your rankings matter!
Nobody is saying they aren’t I’m saying when you say astros and Yankees have the farm to get anybody Atlanta is in that mix too if not above those teams
Your the one saying all this about Yankees have a better farm system when that statement is false
Rutherford won’t be anything good
I bet you thought he’d be a star a week ago. Funny how opinions can change so quickly.
Hell no, Frazier is already showing he can hold his own he bigs, and Torres value is lower than ever with his injury. I wouldn’t trade them if I were the Yankees. Torres looked like a star in the making. He’ll not.
So Mr. Expert. kevincrrr…please explain to all of us how an injury and subsequent surgery to Torres non-throwing shoulder is going to submarine his career and other than delay his debut, lower his value more than ever?
Sorry, A’s farm doesn’t compare to Yankees’. Nice try, troll.
Just like all the other teams’s prospects
braves are a bad fit. thrir competitive window is 2019-2023. gray is gone after 2020.
astros window is 2017-2020 (at least), NYY is 2018 (arguably 2017)-2022.
why would ATL trade future value for a guy who will only be around for 1 year of their window? plus, he’s a SP. I’ll take 4 FV 50 prospects over pretty much any SP.
chisox have more upside, ATL has more depth.
most of ChiSox’s prospects have statistically under performed their BA/Sickels/etc rankings. high ceilings and low floors.
I don’t know if I necessArily agree with that, I think a package of Mateo, Kaprellian, and Sheffield gets it done.
No shot that deal ever happens. Kap had TJ surgery and his value right now is low. For Gray, you could package Mateo, Guzman, and a low Single A prospect should get Gray
Trade makes too much sense not to happen. Either Martes and Tucker straight up or Martes, Fisher, and another solid prospect.
keep Tucker in Houston! take anyone else
They’re obviously going to ask for Tucker. But if the Stros stand firm it can still get done around Martes, Fisher, and 2 others. They’ll just be better than throw ins like they’d get if Tucker were in it.
I don’t like Martes personally, I dont see the hype regarding him. He’s overweight.
Stop! I personally don’t like you commenting on a topic you don’t know anything about. The kid is 21 years old!
This dude “personally” doesn’t like it when people comment on stories? Wtf? Does he not know what “personally” means or is he just a YUGE weirdo??
A’s would be pelvic thrusting all the way to the bank if Gray nets them Martes and Tucker.
10/10 visual
Billy Beane was a FV 80 pelvic thruster as a prospect so I assume it would be an amazing sight.
Not martes but Forrest Whitely. Shoot for the moon. Martes isnt that good. Im low on him
I think if the braves lose the first two to the dodgers and he hasn’t got traded the braves will start making some calls
I don’t think playing the Dodgers will make or break ATL’s season. They know they can make up a couple games against a lesser opponent. Going into Dodger Stadium to try to take a series is a big ask to validate a season. Not trying to be arrogant, but they play their best at home.
It does make or break the season with how well the cubs are playing
To sell?
I am surprise that the Astros aren’t talking to the Braves about Tehran, Vizcaino,Phillips deal.
why on Earth do the Astros need Phillips???
He can be a good replacement for Carlos Correa until he get back.
You do know Correa plays SS and BP is at 2B. BP is not going to like a position change. Position changes and day games make BP angry.
They have two solid replacements in house. No thank you on BP.
More importantly, their lead is so huge that any minor league SS could fill in until he gets back and they’d still make the playoffs. Why trade for an unnecessary replacement?
Ehh because Gray is a lot better than Teheran and they don’t have to worry about an NL pitcher switching over and getting rocked. Yes they’d have to give up less for Teheran but they’re trying to win a World Series.
Sports who would the braves get in the deal I’m seriously asking cause I’m interested in it
The Braves might able to get Derek Fisher, Garrett Stubbs and 2 lower level prospect. Fisher is the 4th rated prospect in the Astros system while Stubbs ranked 11th he also a catcher and the Braves need a young catcher.
Shoot for Marten and Tucker and then don’t trade Teheran because we won’t get that level of package. No need to ship out a controllable arm unless the package is wow worthy.
Martes obviously
I don’t see the Braves trading Teheran unless they have a plan to replace him that doesn’t involve an untested rookie.
Maybe because Teheran is bad, Vizcaino isn’t a top closer, and they have 0 need for Phillips
If you don’t know what the plan for the braves is don’t put nose in saying just because you go after grey you are trying to contend this year
excellent point. people are forgetting Gray is controlled for two more seasons..
I’m not saying they get him but it would be smart to try it if they don’t like the offer the braves say than forget it
of the 2 seasons, ATL will be competitive for 1. grays arm could fall off by then. its a bad move unless he comes cheap (he wont)
Teheran is going to Royals or Astros.
Mam if Astros get these 3 pitchers there farm is going to be bushwhacked
Verlander and Wilson for Tucker and a throw in?
I consider that a pretty fair deal.
We’ll even throw in some pizzas if it helps!
There is no way JV and Wilson return a 60 grade prospect in Tucker. Think lower, much lower. More like 50 grade prospects unless Detroit eats a lot of money.
So are we talking Fisher or even lower?
Excuse you. JV is a proven ace and J wil is the first suitable closer Detroit has had since papa grande in 2011. Their values as Tigers are very high. Whoever wants them better overpay
JV is 34 and having an averagish season while making the rest of his $28 million salary this year, and owed $56 million for his age 35 and 36 seasons. He has been a great pitcher, but at this point of his career doesn’t look to be worth his salary.
As for Wilson, we saw earlier today what type of return the Tigers should expect for a good, not elite RP with 1.5 years of control remaining. The Marlins received a 50 grade, two 45 grade and a 40 prospect for the very similar Phelps. Below are Wilson and Phelps stats out of the bullpen since the start of 2016. Without looking it up, do you know which pitcher below is Wilson and which is Phelps?
95 IP, 10.95 K/9, 4.03 BB/9, 0.74 HR/9, 2.80 ERA, 3.15 FIP, 3.44 xFIP
109 IP, 10.93 K/9, 2.95 BB/9, 0.95 HR/9, 3.61 ERA, 3.10 FIP, 3.34 xFIP
Avila can hold out hope that some team will overpay. Unfortunately for Tiger fans when no team pays the reportedly high asking price, it will just slow down the rebuild further and cause the slow death of this team to continue longer than necessary. Being mediocre with a rapidly aging team and bottom 5 farm system is not a good place to be as a fan.
Was a proven ace, but now he is a head case.
And to fellow Tigers fans that say he was our best pitcher–Mickey Lolich was the best pitcher we had.
Greg Maddux is a proven ace too, want him?
Trading JV when hes having a down year, one year removed from a cy young worthy
Campaign. Smart
he’s not having a down year, he’s aging. this is normal. look at his 4 year trend. last year was the outlier.
How about this trade:
Astros get J. Teheran and LRP Sam Freeman
Braves get Colin Moran, Forrest Whitley and Franklin Perez
Moran is the Braves new 3B and Whitley and Perez are add to the stacked farm the Braves have and can be used as part of a deal to grab Gray from the A’s.
or the astros just use that package to get gray themselves
Could happen as well nobody knows for sure
all depends on how the season turns out with Matt adams at first and freeman at 3rd
The Braves when it come to 3rd baseman they are bloated loaded the Braves Austin Rally in AA they have Rio Ruiz in AAA Gwinnett. Kevin Maitan who might be moved up to A ball before the season is over with.
Braves are so loaded at they have to move their MVP, someone that hasn’t played the position since high school, to learn on the job while coming back from a wrist injury. So loaded. Ruiz isn’t sticking, Riley is suspect even in AA where he’s not making necessary adjustments and Maitan is so far off you need to start a new paragraph when speaking about him.
they moved freeman to 3B so adams could get more AB and build value.
also, riley, ruiz, and maitan arent MLB ready. however, that doesn’t mean the farm isn’t stacked.
That’s what I’m saying they have prospects for grey
but why?
gray in 2017-good
braves in 2017-not good
gray in 2018-probably good
braves in 2018-probably mediocre
gray in 2019-who knows, hes a SP
braves in 2019-probably good
gray in 2020-free agent
braves in 2020-good, not paying for a FA SP
it’s not at all a good fit. wait a year or 3.
No need to do that from our perspective. Wow us or we keep Teheran. Id rather keep the controllable arm than take quantity of mediocre prospects.
Whitley and Perez are no mediocre prospects
Whitley is a decent second piece and not a headliner. Perez is filler
Perez is the same type of filler that Mike Soroka would be in a trade. What type of player would you expect back in return for Soroka? That’s the same type of return Houston should expect back for Perez.
Hahah good one bud. Soroka is dominating AA, and Perez just got out of high A. Not close to comparable actually
BA’s midseason list has them ranked #32 and #33. Last season, both players were 18 in A ball. Soroka had a 3.02 ERA and 2.78 FIP, while Perez had a 2.84 ERA and 2.36 FIP. This year, Soroka got bumped to AA and has had 2.38 ERA and 3.09 FIP, while Perez has had a 2.98 ERA and 3.38 FIP and has now been promoted to AA. Both are 55 grade pitching prospects. You play Brave’s homer and think that Soroka is great while Perez is garbage, but in reality they are virtually the same prospect.
Why wouldn’t the Astros just trade for Gray themselves? Why would they want a bad pitcher in Teheran. 2 top 50 prospects+ for a pitcher with a 4.5+ ERA and 5+ FIP. What a time to be selling a pitcher
You know who I’d love for Houston to go after? Michael Fulmer and Justin Wilson from Detroit. Would take a TON but Astros have the prospects and the opportunity…may never be a better time to make a WS run. Hypothetically, who says no?
Houston trades: Martes, Tucker, Franklin Perez, Michael Feliz and JD Davis.
Detroit trades: Michael Fulmer and Justin Wilson.
Fulmer?! Heck, no! He’s the only player the Tigers have to build around. Boyd and Norris are inconsistent.
But a rebuild is going to take awhile due to lack of a farm system and lack of money. Why waste 2-3 years of Fulmer, when you could get 3 top tier prospects for him.
If NY was willing to do Fulmer to Torres, Mateo and a quality pitching prospect, Detroit would be a fool not to do it. It would improve our outlook on 2019 and beyond significantly. (2018 is already a loss)
Not even Avila is that stupid to listen to that offer. Fulmer goes for a kings ransom…better than the sale haul.
Lol. No.
I love my Stros, but we’re not getting Fulmer without Bregman being involved. Deal would probably look like Bregman, Fisher, Martes, Perez, Davis for those Wilson and Fulmer.
Well as a tigers fan I know that they won’t deal Fulmer unless it’s franchise altering return so with that being said it would have to start with 1-2 major leaguers either Bregman or Musgrove+AJ Reed I would think. Then I know that they are enamored with Forrest Whitley and Derek Fisher so it would have to include both. The philosophy for them is “2 Micheal Fulmer for one” so it would have to include Martes with the hope being that Whitley and Martes end up being major league studs. I think they’d also want Daz Cameron and anywhere from 1-4 mid to low level prospects depending on what they get from their scouting department. The price tag is very steep, but Tigers have all the leverage and if they don’t fall out of their chairs when they hear the offer they hang up the phone…my guess is that they plan to shop him at the winter meeting where they expect more suitors but if the Astros offer something absurd I’m fairly confident that the Tigers will accept. It’s really unlikely that Justin Wilson will come in the same deal tho
Haha not even close
If I was the Tigers, I would send Fulmer over and wish him the best in Houston. That’s a 60 FV OF, 2 55 pitchers, 45/50 near MLB ready 3B and 4 years of a 24 year old back of the bullpen pitcher. Fulmer is good, young and controllable, but this is the kind of return the Tigers need to jump start their rebuild.
Why would we need a third baseman?
Castellanos and Lugo already fit that bill.
Castellanos is a below average player with only 2.5 years of control left. At this point, the Tigers should take all the talent they can and worry about positions later. They shouldn’t be worried about trying to fill holes right now.
I can’t stand Castellanos, but he’s not below average…
Cubs are either going to get grey or Verlander
Cubs won’t get JV, they already said they weren’t interested and I don’t blame them.
JV isn’t that good and his contract is death.
His contract is bad otherwise he’s still got it
Contracts can be made to go away, you know, how much so is entirely up the trading team. The problem is his performance this year so far (and his ability to block any trade).
Yes they can. Tigers chip in $20MM and his deal looks fine. Done.
Cubs can’t offer A’s what the Astros, Brewers, Dodgers, Yankees, and Twins can:
Top 100 prospects.
If Astros get verlander and gray, this is their rotation
Keuchel
Verlander
Gray
McCullers
Flip McCullers and Verlander…
JV wont
*** waive his ntc to become a 4th starter in any rotation. Know that
I didn’t know JV set the rotation
He doesn’t have to if he can reject a trade there.
Then he won’t be going to the Astros along with Gray (which won’t happen anyways). The Astros aren’t stupid enough to pitch him in front of McCullers and/or Gray. If he wants to cry about being the 4th starter on a championship team, that’s not the kind of guy anyone wants in their locker room.
And it’s not like they’re going to say – “Hey JV. We’re thinking about trading for you. Will you waive your NTC to be our 4th starter?” They would just trade for him, he would agree or not agree, and then they’d set their rotation from there. He can’t go back and say just kidding after accepting.
how will he know his rotation slot prior to the trade? also, if he’s that much of a diva, then he doesnt want a ring.
My uncle works for the Cardinals & he told me the Astros are close to getting Gray based on the emails he’s seen.
Lol
LMAO
Crying. You win today
Hah! Espionage. Classic.
Hats off and to the left to you sir.
That rotation would mean World Series
Quintana netted the Cubs #1 Eloy Jimenez & #2 Dylan Cease plus some throw-ins.
So Gray should net the Astros #2 Kyle Tucker, #5 Forrest Whitley & #29 Jorge Alcala.
This is a fair return for Oakland to rebuild for the future. This helps the Astros compete for WS now and for several more controllable years from Gray.
Except Gray isn’t as valuable as Quintana. Replace Tucker with Fisher and that sounds right.
I don’t know about that. Derek Fisher is a retired nba player that turned to baseball. How valuable can he be?
If I’m the A’s, I’d request prospects that either have major league experience or are close to breaking that threshold. The prospects you mentioned are 2-3 years away from the show. Yes, they have tremendous potential and are worthy of their rankings; however, they each need more seasoning. The Astros’ depth within their farm system is big reason that the team is in 1st place with a huge lead.
Here is what I would request from the Astros if I was Billy Beane – RHP Frances Martes, RHP Joe Musgrove, OF Derek Fisher, RHP Kevin Comer, and RHP Rogelio Armenteros.
Fisher hurts because he would slot in for a retiring Beltran next year, but if I’m the Astros I take that deal, but would try to talk Beane into taking Hernandez and Preston Tucker instead of Fisher.
Tucker and Whitley aren’t available.
Oakland in my opinion would be wise to deal with Houston as they have 6 guys that would be playing right now in the bigs if they were on any of about 20 other teams.
Colin Moran, Tony Kemp, Teoscar Hernandez, Tyler White, Derek Fisher etc…. would all jump right into their 25 man roster.
The problem with a deal in my mind, is I think Houston wanted Gray and Doolittle. So Houston might be looking elsewhere to make a deal like Verlander and Wilson, where they can address the rotation and the pen.
In the end, I think if McHugh looks good Saturday and Kuechel looks good in his next rehab start, Houston only looks to add bullpen pieces.
Addison Reed and Jerry Blevins would fit very nicely.
Peacock goes back to the pen, Sipp gets DFA, Feliz and Martes are either included in deal or apart of the trade.
If I’m the A’s, the trade doesn’t happen without Tucker, period. I’d also push HARD for both him and Whitley. Without Tucker, Gray goes somewhere else.
JV and J-Will would most likely mean both Whitley and Fisher headlining it.
I don’t understand dealing sonny to the Astros. why would Oakland want to help the Astros out long term? I would understand as a rental piece but not a pitcher who is controllable. I feel (and some will laugh) that Oakland is 2 years away from being a really good team. we should extend Sonny and keep him as a veteran pitcher for the new guys coming up. If this trade happens we need proven AA and AAA players to help once the rebuild has happened. Otherwise we will be in the same boat as we were in our last playoff run, shipping youngsters for veteran pitchers who let you down in a wildcard game.
Came to say similar.
I think because it’s an intradivisional trade, the price has to go up some, not much, but at least some.
I love your optimism, but Beane himself has said that he feels it is time to actually fully commit to a tear-down and rebuild. That doesn’t sound like a GM that thinks they are only 2 years away….
The only way I trade Gray to Houston is for Bregman, Fisher, Tucker, and Martes or for Corea and Martes.
1. he’s a SP. hes as likely to be terrible in 2019 as he is good. extending him is a bad idea for that same reason.
2. he’s only controlled through 2019. that one year is probably the earliest OAK is competitive.
I hear the deal is Gray and Lowrie for Correa. Announcement later today
Carlos Corrra isn’t getting traded. Why would they trade for an injured player? The A’s want players for now and the future. Getting a player like Corrra would be great for them but what’s the point when he can’t make an impact immediately
You can’t honestly think he was being serious, can you?
They talked to Semien about an extension over the off-season. Why would they want another shortstop with 2+ service time?
Gray for Fisher, SP, and LHP
Take the Astros to the cleaners, A’s
I was “-6” mocked for suggesting a Justin/Justin trade just days ago.
Looks like Houston is monitoring this comment board and filtering on “negative ratings” for new ideas.
Justin and Justin and $20MM for 2 Top 100s and 2 other prospects.
Houston has 6 Top 100s. 5 if you do not include Paulino who is suspended for 80 games.
Who says no first?
I still would say no if I were the Astros. Even with paying down $20 million of JV’s contract, you are essentially valuing him at 3/$50 for his age 34-36 seasons. If he was a free agent today, that is about the max I would feel comfortable paying. So you have now made him worth his salary. Why should I give up assets for a player with little to no surplus value? I guess if my scouts told me they felt like there was still some of the old JV in there despite the results, I might give up one of top 100 guys at a blocked position and make the other 2 prospects more 45 grade guys than 50 grade guys. I would still worry though because JV is at an age where guys start to fall off and not all all guys fall off slowly.
Remember that a lot of the value in JV is THIS YEAR.
Also..
JV has a very clean delivery. Notice the lack of “moving parts” and the way he keeps his elbow up, not down (like a scarecrow) when he takes his step forward.
Advanced Analytics staff know this. He will likely age much better than an average pitcher his age.
Someone will get a great value in JV.
Depends on your two top 100s. If you’re talking Martes and Tucker, Astros say no first. If it was the Verlander of last year, probably yes, but he just doesn’t look like the same guy. If you’re talking their bottom two guys in the top 100, then Tigers say no because that’s a lot of money to ship off for guys that might not be more than serviceable.
Want Gray? Entice A’s Billy Beane, big time!
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Astros ended up with Gray. I figured it would happen from the moment I heard about the Cubs getting Quintana. Astros definitely want to win now and have the prospects to get him pretty easily. That said, a few days ago, many of us were saying, “Frazier to the Red Sox makes too much sense not to happen,” and we all know how that turned out.
I’d be asking for Tucker/Whitley for Gray.. sure is a lot but trading Gray in division when he has #1/#2 stuff, and is under control for 2.5 years is asking a lot from us as well. If not I go back to the Brewers and ask for 2 of Brinson/Ray/Ortiz
I’ve never really understood the taboo about trading in-division. It’s one thing if you’re trading two major leaguers, but when one team is trying to win now and the other is trying to build for the future, what difference does it make whether you help a divisional team? Their windows of contention don’t line up so it doesn’t matter. Actually, no, it does matter because you face your own division’s teams 18 times during the season, so facing a great team can kill your record and get you a better draft pick.
The only place Tucker will be is in an Astros uniform next year or the following. If the A’s don’t except Fisher and or Martes and some throw ins (which they will) then Gray will find himself stuck in Oakland looking up.
I still predict he won’t be traded. The asking price is high and I do t think Oakland will
Get it
Verlander and Wilson to the Astros!
If JV and J-Wil go to Houston it’ll be for Tucker, Martes, and two lower prospects with the Tigers eating some cash. Dont know why people are talking about paulino when hes currently suspended. Also Houston offered Fisher for Wilson in the offseason and Detroit declined and now Wilsons value has gone up so fisher will not be the main piece.
Yankees fans think they can have Mateo as a centerpiece but if chapman got Torres as a rental they have to give him up for a pitcher with 2 years of control and maybe Clint Frazier too
That would be a bigger return then the Cubs got for Q not a chance that will happen.
Not all Yankee fans..just the one.
Why aren’t the Indians in talks for Gray???
Article the other day said they were talking to Oak
I kind of assume they are hoping to get a deal influenced with semi-ML parts like Naquin and maybe Clev tho, instead of just depleting more of the top of the system
Time for theo to swoop in!! I loved seeing that some reddit user i forget his name was the person that reported Quintana deal. I guess theo keeps it on QT
Want Gray? Entice A’s Billy Bean, big time!!!
It’s Beane good try though.
What would it take for the Astros to acquire Carlos Martinez?
Just don’t trade to the Yankees or Dodgers biggest crooks in Baseball
Lol.
Lol MB923 I love coming on here to see the stupid things people say like this bare troll I just laugh at things like that. Coming on this site and coming to read the comments is better than going to a comedy club because you get just as much entertainment on here or more than you do going to a actual comedy club. Thanks for the laughs you Yankee hating trolls keep the comments coming so I can laugh LMAO.