After a great deal of speculation and legions of rumors connecting the Red Sox to Todd Frazier, the now-former White Sox third baseman instead went to the division-rival Yankees in a huge seven-player trade last night. Boston was linked to Frazier right up until the end, but they’ll now look elsewhere as they seek an upgrade at the hot corner. Here’s the latest out of Boston…
- The Red Sox have been connected to multiple other third basemen, and FanRag’s Jon Heyman adds Wilmer Flores of the Mets to the pile (Twitter link). Heyman notes that the Sox have scouted Flores, Asdrubal Cabrera and T.J. Rivera recently, which meshes with a recent report from the Boston Herald’s Michael Silverman. The 25-year-old Flores (26 next month) and his modest $2.2MM salary wouldn’t put the BoSox in danger of crossing the luxury tax threshold, and he’s versatile enough to slide into a utility role if/when the Red Sox ultimately give Rafael Devers the reins at third base. Flores is hitting .280/.310/.445 with seven homers and a dozen doubles this season, and he’s controllable through 2019.
- Speaking of Devers, it may come as little surprise, but MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand hears that the 20-year-old top prospect isn’t available in any trade, as far as the Red Sox are concerned (Twitter link). Devers was recently moved up to Triple-A Pawtucket, and while it’s not known exactly how long he’ll remain there — Boston’s pursuit of third basemen in trades suggests that he’s not viewed as an immediate option — he’s believed to be their third baseman of the future. Devers recently landed within the game’s top six prospects on the midseason rankings of Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus and ESPN’s Keith Law.
- Looking to another of Boston’s now-former top prospects, Blake Swihart is still unable to catch regularly following last year’s ankle injury and is beginning to work out at first base and third base, manager John Farrell told reporters (Twitter link via ESPN’s Scott Lauber). Once one of the very best prospects in all of baseball, Swihart’s stock is now seemingly at a low point with another experiment at a new defensive home and a lack of production in Pawtucket to this point in the season. Through 163 plate appearances there, he’s hitting .213/.265/.327 with three homers, six doubles and a triple.
- Evan Drellich of CSN New England offers some praise for Red Sox president of baseball ops Dave Dombrowski for exhibiting restraint by not pulling out all the stops to bring Frazier to Boston. Dombrowski has spoken publicly about retaining some of the team’s prospect depth after several significant trades, Drellich writes, and he stuck to that last night. However, Drellich continues by noting that last night also serves as a reminder of the “harsher reality” that following the acquisitions of Chris Sale, Drew Pomeranz, Craig Kimbrel and Tyler Thornburg, the Sox have a lack of power in the current trade market. Most of those deals have paid dividends, of course (Sale, in particular), but a deal that significantly upgrades the team’s offense doesn’t look especially likely this year.
I am a Pirate fan and also a Red Sox fan. i think Josh Harrison would be the perfect fit for the Sox. I don’t know what the return would look like. I could actually see the Pirate sbeing interested in getting Swihart back as part of the package just going off their history.
Agree Harrison would be an excellent fit as he’s a super utility type with good speed!
I could also see David Freese being a good fit as well
Well Freese is so/so on defense and has recently been terrible with the bat. I don’t know if he is a starting caliber third baseman any more. I want the Pirates to move him but I would rather the Red Sox didn’t pick him up.
His contract is too long.
But Harrison can play multiple positions. It isn’t like when Devers takes over he becomes unplayable. Besides that his contract is only this year and next year then they become club options. I think that is exactly the contract situation they need.
So you’re not a fan at all.
Were I the Sox, I’d rather have Freese. He’s proven he can play on the big stage and he plays the two positions they need.
Having said that, I’d rather keep him unless they offer up something good. He’s the most professional player in that clubhouse and a good bench piece.
Trading Harrison with Kang in limbo doesn’t make much sense to me.
Why would the Pirates want a kid who is hurt?
I am not saying they would want him as the main piece of the trade. They have a history of targeting former top prospects in trades. That is what I was trying to say.
I think Freese is more likely to go to the Sox in a minor deal–the Bucs would be looking for assets that the Sox either don’t have or won’t part with.
The Bucs are only five out right now. Would they still be sellers?
I think regardless of what ends up happening with Thornburg, that trade (and in particular giving up Shaw) will go down as Dom’s biggest mistake in the Sox front office
Or Carson Smith
Carson Smith trade wont. We dumped Wade Miley for him. That alone is a win imo.
Please, no one and I mean no one, could have predicted Shaw would have put up the numbers he has nor could any predict Thornburgh getting injured. At the time of the trade they had a healthy Holt and fat Panda was healthy and in shape. So they had a surplus of 3rd basemen.
Agreed, a trade that could look the opposite this time next year
Agreed. Shaw’s BABIP is ridiculously high. I don’t think it will last and thus his entire stat line will come down. We’ll see though. Time will tell.
Way to go out on a limb there Captain Hindsight.Shaw will regress back to his means. He had a shot to win the 3rd base job and didn’t. I’m sure you were saying don’t let go of him last year when he contributed nothing down the stretch or playoffs.
Good thing Thornburg is contributing so much to the Sox this year.
Still a huge mistake, but it should be noted that Shaw’s success was bound to be limited in Boston. He was a fly ball hitter playing 81 games in a park that is tough to hit homers to right field. Miller Park and weak pitching in the NL Central has definitely helped Shaw. Thornburg was untouchable last year with an ERA+ over 200 if I remember correctly. Just goes to show that trading for relievers is too risky.
Depends on what comes of Anderson Espinosa
About time dealing Dave held onto some of Boston’s remaining prospects
I mean, do you not want Chris Sale, the best pitcher in the AL and all around dominant force? Or Craig Kimbrel, possibly baseball’s best closer? Deals have to be made. That costs something, either money or prospects.
wouldn’t be surprised if they reached out to the angels about Escobar if they fall out of it in next week though it’s a power bat they need in this lineup.
I am a mets fan/yankee fan Wilmer Flores
isn’t really playing everyday and he’s bench a lot and mostly only just left handlers it would be a waste for the Sox
No such thing as a Mets/Yankees fan.
Pick a side or stay out of the fight.
Wilmer would be great in a Red Sox Uni.
Yeah, I almost commented on the guy (assuming he is out of his teens) straddling between the Pirates/Red Sox upstream, but Yankees/Mets? Can’t be done.
Please, no one and I mean no one, could have predicted Shaw would have put up the numbers he has nor could any predict Thornburgh getting injured. At the time of the trade they had a healthy Holt and fat Panda was healthy and in shape. So they had a surplus of 3rd basemen.
I’m a Red Sox fan and I always try and see the good side of every trade, I don’t think that Dombrowski has done that great a job,TBH……when he came, the cupboards were overflowing, and a year and a half later they are nearly empty,and all there is to show for it is Kimbrel and Sale
nearly empty? the Sox have arguably a top 5 prospect system. there isn’t much in the way of immediate can’t miss guys but the cupboard isn’t nearly empty
Fair enough
I don’t think they’re anywhere near the top 5. Off the top of my head the Astros, white sox, Rays, braves, Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, Rockies, A’s, and Twins all have way better farms. Then you can start debating who they are better/worse than
I love those that want everything (those Sox fans must have grown up with Yankee can parents).
The high minors are bare only because of the production of all of the “B” guys and the two catchers, Leon and Vasquez. Give credit to Sherington and DD.
As far as Shaw goes, it certainly hurts given his production this year but remember he was not a highly touted prospect. Let’s what DD can do before the trading deadline. Just remember they’re trying to stay under the tax threshold this year (whereas the Yankees will be doing the same in 2018). it may hurt now but reap rewards when the 2018 free agent class become available.
Whatever you’re drinking with that comment about obvious prospects being in the Red Sox system, pass it over.
I think most ranking agencies tend to disagree with your assessment of the Sox farm system.
May not be a bottom 5 but certainly nowhere near a top 5.
midseason rankings have them as 6th or 7th best. There’s no media darling players outside of Devers and Groome but they have a ton of talent left in that system.
Jakem59
I hate to bust your balloon but, Baseball America, nor any ranking agency has the Red Sox minor league teams ranked any where close to the top 10 so your comment about 6th or 7th best….not sure where you’re getting you info most likely sentimentality here.
As far as a ton of talent left in the system, DD was hesitant to pull the trigger on a White Sox trade due to a lack of available talent left within the system and feared he would really not just clean out the cub bard but throw it away with the wash water.
As an Astros fan, we’d be glad to help you restock your cupboards for Kimbrel and Sale.
As a Red Sox fan I would be more than happy to trade them Kimbrell for Correa and McCullers. If we are just tossing around never going to happen scenarios.
You realize if we didn’t have Kimbrel and Sale we’d be terrible right
Wow you Red Sox fans are never happy it’s amazing you have Sale one of the best pitchers in the game and are still complaining it’s unreal, you guys could always trade Sale somewhere else and recoup some of those prospects if you aren’t happy with Sale I am sure you wouldn’t have a problem finding a taker LOL.
One Sox fan means all fans now? lol didn’t realize all Yankees fans weren’t happy, I saw a comment about the yankees should trade Gleyber for Brad Hand… Nice generalization
Sure. It’s just like the entire fan base is racist too. Don’t you know us Sox fans get clumped all together?
No Yankee fan ever said to trade Gleyber for Hand you should learn to read maybe you would have the facts straight, it says the Padres asked the Yankees for Torres in a deal for Hand go back and read and not make yourself look like a total fool.
Who doesn’t want to get better? If you’re ever completely satisfied you don’t want it badly enough. Trading/training/growth, there’s always room for improvement.
Example: 7 player deal your Yankees pulled off last night.
Those are two of the top 3 players at their positions? That’s “all”?
I wouldn’t call the cupboards “nearly empty.” Part of the reason their farm is considered lesser now is that Benintendi is in the Majors playing every day, first and foremost. (With Sam Travis likely to graduate from prospect lists soon as well.)
Secondly, they’ve received 9.5 wins above replacement this season from the trio of Sale, Kimbrel and Pomeranz alone, by RA9-WAR. Each was acquired with at least 2.5 seasons of club control remaining and will be around through at least 2018.
The Thornburg deal looks brutal now and was questionable at the time, but Dombrowski’s general willingness to trade prospects is a large portion of the reason they’re in first place in the East. If he hadn’t dealt them all, the Sox would probably be in the middle of the pack in the division right now and looking to deal from their farm to bolster their 2017 chances anyhow.
DD’s willingness to trade prospects is NOT a large portion they’re in first place I the East. It may be a minute portion.
A large portion of why they’re in first place is the Yankees’ collapse.
*why they’re in first place in the East.*
The Red Sox aren’t in first place because of the Yankees collapse. They are in first place because DD acquired the pieces that put them there. The Yankees were at best supposed to be a .500 team this year. They were able to outperform for a few months, but eventually their lack of depth caused them to come back to earth. That said, the Red Sox still had to win the games the Yankees lost to claw up to first place. They wouldn’t have been successful without the acquisitions of Kimbrel, Sale and Pomeranz. They’re all very important parts of the team. You’re not in first place with Joe Kelly or Matt Barnes as your closer. Sale and Pomeranz have been the two best pitchers in their rotation this year as well. Not even sure who your #1 guy is without those two.
Clay Buchholz
I thought about it but couldn’t make myself write down Buchholz’s name.
Thank you Steve for speaking logically. Just because the farm isn’t rated well doesn’t mean the talent isn’t there. The starting 9 at the ML level is almost all home grown talent. At some point you either move the talent up or move the talent out to fill holes like they have.
Eventually, yes you lose chips to move in trades but this is a pretty well built roster aside from the hole at third. They do have some young talent that can fill in the ML roster eventually and because of the young current roster have the luxury to wait on those players.
One of Betts/Bradley/Xander are probably going to move on. It’s a few years away and by then the new talent will be prepared.
Yeah all they have to show is the best closer and best starter in the Ameeican League
Michael Burks, Are you sure you’re not a Red Sox fan? Let’s see, Sale, Krimbrel and Pomeranz for a handful of prospects. -Carson Smith for Miley was a steal. Sure Smith is in rehab but Miley has floundered since been traded to the Orioles. Shaw for Thornburgh was another sweet deal. No one expected him to get hurt or a healthy Panda and Holt both to the DL for a extended amount of time. Everyone was racing about Betances and Chapman, but yet both have struggled to the point the Yankees had to trade for 2 releivers
“All there is to show” don’t you think Sale and Kimbrel have been impressive enough to back up their trades? I mean jeez what more do they have to do to impress?
ask Baltimore for manny machado..
in your dreams
Nunez?? He’s having a so so season but can slot right in at 3rd base for the rest of the season, you can take him and Hunter Strickland for 2-4 Arms
I wouldn’t mind Boston acquiring Strickland. Regardless of the Harper issue earlier this season I’ve always liked him and didn’t like when they traded him away to PIT. I think he could be a good 8th inning option ahead of Kimbrel. I’d have more faith in him than the current options.
Nunez though is pretty much a right handed version of Brock Holt though. I think Boston needs more of an upgrade than that at the hot corner and really none of the potential options (Frazier included before last night) are really nothing to be impressed about.
I think the Yanks just did Boston a favor.
Frazier is not having a good year.
He never recovered from HR Derby.
Seriously look at his stats before and after.
Robertson isn’t going to be happy not closing, which is why he left to begin with.
Their need was in the rotation.
Sure they did
What about Sean Rodriguez? Would be cheap and a serviceable player until devers is ready
I’d the bullpen phone and the water cooler
Hide***
This is true, I think he is a great guy just to crowded right now in the braves infield
could be a good pickup… main position is third and he’s having a passable year, and braves are way out of contention (11.5 div, 8 wc), and after this year he goes to the bench or gets dealt over winter
It’s only July 19th. The Braves aren’t way out yet. If it were August 19th, maybe. There’s still time especially w/ the slides of AZ and CO.
If josh Donaldson was available, Boston should consider moving Devers in a deal
I don’t think Toronto would trade him in the division, same thing with Machado
Why not? They traded Farrell to Boston (though some may think that worked out better for TOR since JF has his moments of infuriating the fan base with his moves)
If Boston offers the best deal, I’d be ticked off if they wouldn’t trade him there because there in the division
donaldson isn’t worth a young guy like devers. even with next year locked in. also, six need a band aid, not a long(ish) term heal
What….Donaldson not worth Devers??????
Devers has all of what less than a dozen games at the Triple AAA level, and you have no idea of how he’ll project as a major league ballplayer…..
Donaldson has defense and a big bat that he brings as his calling card….what can you say about Devers as far as proven stats other than “potential”
When you are at the salary cap, cheap potential holds a lot of value. Over the cap penalties are to be avoided.
beltre
I think he just signed an extension
rangers should still move him, let him get a ring while replenishing their farm.
large price tag, rangers would have to pay a crapload of his money off for boston to consider him
They should’ve never got rid of him in the first place
Bring back Tory Luvallo…
Nick Castellanos+Alex Wilson for Rafael Devers, Jay Groome and throw-ins? Ik Trader Dave is high on Nicky…whos under team control through 2020 I believe thus eliminating the need for Devers.
That would be a bad move by the Red Sox.
Agree that would be too much. Even if you were to swap Alex out for Justin. I wouldn’t mind a Castellanos/Justin Wilson trade but the package would have to start with Chavis. Devers could move to 1B as it sounds like from many reports he is more fit for that position. Just hearsay as I’ve never seen him play.
Did you not just see the pile of garbage Detroit got for JD? I wouldn’t plan on Avila fleecing anybody anytime soon. This would be an awful deal for Boston.
castellated is a below-average everything
castellanos*
Never gonna happen, just not worth it
As a Mets fan I hope they handle this trade better and not send Flo out there in tears again. I wish they played him more he is far and away better than Cabrera
I’m with ya. I see no benefit to trading away Flores or Rivera. They are both really good players for how little they cost. And I just don’t see getting anything major in return.
A long term replacement at 3B and a good reliever…Trader Dave needs to give back to Detroit…
They don’t need a long term replacement at 3B. Devers is in AAA and should be ready next year.
After all the Panda money they’re on the hook for what they need at third is a cheap rental who produces now.
The Sox hesitancy to acquire a third baseman, despite the smoking hole in the ground that has been third this year, to me, suggests Devers is closer to arriving than stated. Yanks made a solid deal. Harrison or wait on Devers, not interested in Flores, etc.
or it suggests that they have faith in brock holt’s abilities. he’s an above-average defender, and this year he hasn’t done too well at the plate, but he just returned. overall, he’s also an above-average hitter too
I’ll take a Flores/Cabrera & Reed package on the cheap. Gives us a stop-gap until Denvers is ready.
So many of you saying that Dombrowski has gutted the farm yet fail to recognize the acquisitions of Sale, Pomeranz, and Kimbrel along with recent call up of Benintendi. You have to give to get and prospects are just that, prospects.
Great point
Agreed, Pedro. I’m a big fan of shipping prospects for big league talent. Why hang on to pitching prospects in the hopes they develop into Chris Sale, when you can go acquire Chris Sale with said prospects? It’s all about timing.
Exactly my point. There was no room for Margot, who has done nothing, in the OF. Espinoza amdMoncada haven’t played in the majors except for Yoan’s brief stint last year. I’m sure you all feel that keeping the next Posey (Swihart) was a good move, too. I’ll gladly take the 2nd best LHP in the majors and a top closer every day. Now that Frazier has gone to the “Evil Empire” we’all see what Yoan is and what we have up.
… or all the can’t miss arms that were waiting to replace Jon Lester. About 4-5 years ago the Sox prospect hype was irritating (even for this Sox fan). I remain disappointed over Lester’s departure.
Ok I am Red Sox fan and think that Kimbrel was smart get by DD but calling Margot nothing is just silly he has started in Center field all year except when injured and looks good will be a solid big league outfielder. The Padres got a very solid return for Kimbrel I see Asuage is also playing for the Pads.
So he starts, for the Padres. Hitting .264 and no OF opening in Beantown.
Iagre that there was no opening in Bosox outfield for Margot and he was expendable but saying he hasnt done anything is wrong he is a big leagu startng center fielder and looks like he is going to be solid so was more or less arguing the done nothing part just starting for the big clubis something not to mention Asuge is playing now too. The Pads got a good return for Kimbrel.
Its doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the Sox need a power stick…. left handed power.. so cross off all the wanna be’s… Moose is my choice.. two weeks and we will see
what’s the lux tax hit on Moose? I still don’t see them crossing.
he is on two year 14 millon contract so less then half the sox could easily add him and stay under the cap. I dont think KC is going to trade him though they are only two back in the central.
Thanks. I really want them under the cap to them see how they move forward.
I’m pretty sure they are staying under the cap they want to reset it.
Flores & Rivera are both good fits, and solid upgrades at third. I Hope they don’t get anyone, but I’m sure they will.
Dombrowski got bashed over and over for bringing in Pomeranz at the high cost of Espinoza and Pomeranz has come up huge this year. Meanwhile Espinoza hasn’t thrown a pitch and off-season surgery is a possibility which means he could miss a chunk of next season too. Not even a top 100 prospect anymore. If you are going to bash him for the Shaw trade then you need to give him credit here.
Agreed! And we needed bullpen help and had what we thought was an all star 3B in Panda.
Where are you getting your information from? Download the MLB at bat app and click prospect watch, Anderson Espinosa is the number 18th ranked prospect in all of baseball. Don’t know where you are getting this “he’s not even a top 100 prospect” nonsense.
that was pre-season, genius. You still think Reyes and Rutherford are that high?
Also Acuna is 86 and JP Crawford is 4. Great list.
Hate to break it to you mr. “genius” but most scouts are still really high on Reyes. Even with the TJ he’s an elite prospect. Baseball Prospectus had him at #9 in their midseason update and Baseball America had him at #12 in their update.
Goes to show you that if theres ace potential scouts aren’t going to let an injury setback ruin their perception of talent.
BA’s midseason update just ranked him at 64th (higher than Groome). Even with him sitting the first half of the year he’s clearly still a top 100 guy just based on his top of the rotation upside alone.
He’s in a throwing program and the MRI’s have shown no UCL damage so its not like he’s for sure getting TJ or his arm is going to fall off. The kid is 19 years old in High A, give him a couple years to see if he pans out.
Some trades just don’t work out. I’m more concerned about the Sox medical staff being able to read records and films. Pom aside, the trades with Seattle and Milwaukee the last two years makes you wonder if it’s a bad coincidence or ineptitude.
Flores is a butcher in the field, but does hit left handed pitching very well. I don’t think I’d move much for any of the guys on the Mets, or may other guys out there. I know that they’re trying to keep under the luxury tax, but I’d be very interested to see what they could make work with the Marlins. They’ve recently come out and said that they are not planning on moving any of their outfielders during the season, but if there’s a team out there who could bring in all of Stanton’s salary while actually giving them something in return, they might be willing to talk. They’re obviously interested in Phelps to shore up the pen, and the wildcard I’d throw out there is Gordon. Gordon is very possibly on the move, and I think he’s athletic enough to play third. if you put him there, you can slot him right into the leadoff spot, enabling you to move Betts back to the heart of the order. Stanton would slot in as your DH, hopefully helping him stay healthy, and at this point I think you DL Moreland and start Hanley at 1st. I don’t think it would take Devers or Groome to pull this off either, as long as they took on the entirety of the salaries. Gordon is under contract for a few years, but with Devers only being 20, this way you don’t have to rush him. When he’s ready, you either move Gordon, or it’s possible Pedey is ready to hang them up and you move him right over to 2nd. It’s very expensive, but if Henry is willing to pay the tax, that could be a serious championship squad there.
Red Sox can do whatever they want, still the 4th best team in the AL. Behind Astros, Tribe, and the yankees (after the trade)
You normally win or lose on your four starters and closer in the playoffs. Guarantee me a slot and I’ll gladly go up against any team in either league. Players have to produce and that’s a big knock on Price and even Porcello. Sale though slots in for a play-in game if they don’t win the division (which they still should).
Red Sox have the best staring pitching in the AL and there bullpen is pretty good with a really good closer. There offense isn’t as good as Houston’s but it is still in the third in all of baseball. They really miss big Papi he was there MVP but the addition of Sale makes there starters crazy good the Red Sox offense is slumping now but if they hit they can win it all just got to make the playoffs and get hot with the bats. I still think Boston will win the division.
*Their – on every single instance.
Devers for Detroit 3b Nick Castellanos 24 yrs old power bat had two homers last night on pace for 25 this year. Controllable and Dave D drafted him.
Not goin to happen they are not trading Devers would not be surprised to see Devers in the bigs real soon.
What about 3b Castellanos for 3b Michael Chavis?
You’re delusional if you think that trade made the Yankees better than the Sox. Past prime 3rd/1st baseman with a reliever who isn’t going to be happy not closing and another that hasn’t been in a big market. They will be lucky to hold on to the second wild card spot even with those trades.
Chicago is a big market
Yeah maybe the Cubs. White Sox haven’t been relevant in how long? Pre-Obama era?
So Holt/Marrero can’t hold the fort at 3rd base, but part timer Wilmer Flores might be the answer?
Sounds like making a trade just to say you made a trade…
Agree. At first I liked the idea of adding Flores but with Holt apparent ok, it makes no sense. Either upgrade or stay pat at 3B.
Dombro would never trade Devers. He is a surefire Hall of Famer.
Of course Dombrowski is a sure fire hall of famer.
Flores kills lefties and would be a solid bench vat, but he has cement hands and feet at 3B. He’s somewhat better at 2B, but his value is as a bat. TJ Rivera is the more valuable option , though I doubt the Mets move him bc he is cheap and controllable. The front office is first and foremost cheap.