With the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline nearing, the Red Sox have interest in acquiring a package consisting of third baseman Martin Prado and reliever David Phelps from the Marlins, reports Bob Nightengale of USA Today (on Twitter).
The Red Sox’s interest in Prado isn’t anything new, as both Nightengale and Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe have reported that they’re eyeing the 33-year-old. However, Cafardo noted Saturday that the Red Sox have reservations about Prado’s contract, which will see him earn another $34MM through 2019. Boston wants Miami to eat some of the money remaining on Prado’s deal, and given that the Marlins seem to be in payroll-slashing mode, it’s possible they’d be open to that.
The Sox would be the sixth team for Prado, who has generally been a quality contributor throughout his career. That hasn’t been the case this year, though, as Prado has slashed an uninspiring .270/.302/.385 during an injury-affected, 129-plate appearance campaign. Unfortunately for first-place Boston, the numbers that its third basemen have posted this year pale in comparison to Prado’s lackluster output. The combination of Deven Marrero, Josh Rutledge, Pablo Sandoval, Marco Hernandez, Tzu-Wei Lin and Steve Selsky has batted an ugly .231/.288/.327 en route the majors’ third-worst fWAR at the position (minus-0.4). Among that group, only Marrero and Lin are both healthy and at the major league level at the moment, while Selsky is at Triple-A. Of course, the Red Sox have a much more prominent third base option in the minors in Double-A standout Rafael Devers, Baseball America’s sixth-ranked prospect, but they’re not eager to promote the 20-year-old yet.
While the hot corner has caused headaches for Boston, its bullpen has been a strength. The unit entered Sunday ranked third in baseball in ERA and fifth in fWAR, with each of Craig Kimbrel, Joe Kelly, Matt Barnes, Heath Hembree, Fernando Abad and Blaine Boyer having logged production ranging from respectable to great. Phelps would make the unit all the more formidable (but would also join Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree and Boyer in providing yet another righty option), though acquiring him isn’t going to be easy.
Half the league has contacted the Marlins about Phelps, who’s amid his second straight solid year and his first as a full-time reliever. On a reasonable salary now ($4.6MM) and controllable via arbitration through 2018, the 30-year-old has notched a 3.56 ERA, 9.63 K/9, 3.35 BB/9 and a 46.4 percent ground-ball rate over 43 innings this season. For their part, the Marlins are willing to move Phelps, who has already been in a package deal with Prado in the past. The Red Sox’s chief rivals, the Yankees, sent the duo to Miami prior to the 2015 campaign. Boston is now trying to fend off the playoff-contending Yankees in the AL East, and the Sox could turn to two former Bombers to boost their chances.
Marrero is on the club, Hernandez is out for the year
Fixed. Thanks for the correction.
Let’s Go Red Sox!!!
Wow, when you put it like that I can really see your points. I stand corrected. I’ll definitely have to research more before commenting in the future.
Super cringe worthy.
Lame!!!
Prado over payed
Underpaid compared to Sandoval
What exactly did he overpay for??
Overpaid. Underpaid. Anyone just “paid?”
Methinks that was just a grammar joke….
Not a lot of options out there for the Sox. Frazier would look like the answer any other year, but he’s not himself this season. Getting him would be more of the same. Meanwhile there’s a guy in Milwaukee who’s on pace for 100 ribbies. Travis, they did you wrong.
Nick Castellanos is probably available. Thinking outside the box
One of the few homegrown players on the Tigers, with no one waiting in the wings to take his spot. Why would Detroit trade a cheap controllable player? (If the answer is because of an overpay, that’s the only reason that makes sense.)
Because they suck.
Frazier has a .786 OPS (better than his career average) and 111 OPS+ (exactly his career average) after a god awful start to the year. I’d say he’s been exactly himself this season.
.702 OPS in March/April
.646 OPS in May
.932 OPS in June
.972 OPS in July
Apparently he was extremely sick at the start of the season and lost like 20 pounds, so it obviously took him a little while to get going. From my completely arbitrary starting point, he has an OPS of .896 in his last 49 games (with only a .248 BABIP) after OPS’ing .595 in his first 28. It’s safe to say he’d be a significant improvement to what the Red Sox are currently trotting out there everyday, and he won’t be a costly acquisition seeing as he’s a rental.
I agree Priggs I think Frazier is the way to go and I think his swing plays in Fenway. I’d like DD to make that happen.
Stop with the Shaw crap. He’s in a Left handed hitting paradise right now, doubtful he’d do anywhere near that in Boston. Everyone forgets that he hit like .190 in the second half of last season, IE hot garbage. He’s gone, time to move on.
Considering the Red Sox have youth on the way and Prado’s deal runs through 2019, they’re probably better off going for someone like Yunel Escobar on an expiring contract. Cost them less in prospects likely as well.
This is Trader Joe we’re talking about here. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see one of your top prospects (Groome or Dalbec) being involved in a Phelps/Prado deal.
*Trader Dave
Name one top prospect that Dave has traded that the Sox could use today? There isn’t one. If you actually look at his trade history over the years you will see that he very rarely trades away a future star player while still receiving some star players in return. He’s very good at what he does.
Finally someone who gets it. DD rarely loses a trade and the trades he has made for Boston he has traded from areas of surplus. The Yankees will find out soon you can’t keep all your prospects at some point you have to trade some to better your team. The Red Sox have a great base of players. They have a few almost untouchables but no one is truly untouchable with DD. DD isn’t stupid though and won’t trade a high level prospect for Prado and Phelps.
Exactly!
Prefer to see them stand pat and ride out Marrero/Lin at #b, who have both hit well the last few weeks and go with all the pitching currently at MLB and pawtucket. Wait for Carson Smith to return and release Sandoval.
Possibly call up Devers by mid-late August if combo of Lin/Marrero return to non hitting ways.
It would seem if they’re looking for a package deal for a third baseman and a reliever the Padres would be the logical option, with Solarte and any of the numerous bullpen rentals they have – Buchter or Yates or Stammen or whomever. Solarte isn’t much of a defender at third but he can hit a little bit and serves no use for the Padres.
Who we going to give up our farm system has been gutted
The farm system has NOT been gutted. Still plenty of quality prospects.
We’ll, there’s still Devers. Bye bye Devers?
Baseball is a cyclical game. You build your farm system, they come up and you replenish it. The Red Sox traded Moncada who plays Pedroia’s position because there are more years in Pedroia’s tank, they traded Kopech because he’s a few years away and Sale is immediate. Having a great farm system is only great if you DON’T have young starting players who are better. The Red Sox are stacked on their MLB roster with young studs so their farm system needs to be converted from one that is a year away to one that is several years away. So this year we got lots of depth for 3 or 4 years from now which is ideal. The Yankees great farm system means that the Yankee’s regular players are sub-par, and they are. Judge and Sanchez could become their Betts and Bogaerts, guys who are competing for All-Star invites year in and year out. But for all the Yankees depth in their farm system, it’s still years away so great it’s better than the Red Sox at this point in time and their MLB team is worse. Which is better? You have 8 fielding positions and pitching to stock up on and promote to the majors. The Red Sox have done that at all positions except 3B, 2B because of Pedroia and 1B (they picked up Moreland instead). They have 5 planned starters and they could use some help there so why not fix 3B and SP with the farm system. It makes sense because they aren’t going to give up the 2017 picks, they are giving up guys who have flourished in their system and have gained the value they need to find a 3B and SP. It’s the circle of life in baseball. Bragging about a farm system as if you win games with it is ridiculous. The farm system needs to be what the MLB team needs, either players ready to fill spots or value that can be traded to fill the spots. Devers and Groome are great but they fit the second category better than the first so we should use their value to bring home quality players that will allow us to compete for a WS ring.
Not a chance unless its a blockbuster deal Prado and Phelps don’t fit that description.
Well said and I couldn’t agree more! Honestly I don’t understand why more people can’t understand this and continue to freak out about prospects being traded.
Prado, Phelps, Barraclough and 10 million in cash (5 mil in 2018, 5 mil in 2019) for a package of Rafeal Devers and Brian Johnson. If not, a package of Brian Johnson, Sam Travis, and another top 15 prospect arm.
Hopefully the Devers deal. Marlins get their third baseman of there future and a young arm while shedding a good portion of salary. Red Sox get a solid veteran third baseman for the next two years and Phelps who is a versatile RHP out the bullpen, plus Barraclough, who is under cheap control….
Barraclough would look nice in a astros uniform
Seriously doubt Devers is going anywhere for most anything. He’s the future 3b in Boston period. Now Michael Chavis? He’s really had a super season this season after finally getting healthy after his 1st season as a professional. He’d be one they could move if they get the right deal and as another 3b prospect.. Might be one to look for.
Chavis, not familiar with. Does he have the potential to be an All-star level player? I cant imagine MIA giving up both Prado and Phelps AND salary relief for anything short of at least one elite talent. I feel like there is going to be a significant market for Phelps especially, considering the affordability of his contract and his performance the last two years. Not to mention, Prado is the captain of the team and I would think that MIA ownership wouldnt give him up unless they get at least two solid long term pieces.
Chavis was a first round pick in 2014 and hitting .307/.369/.611 between A+ and AA
I can’t imagine anyone parting with even one elite talent for Prado and Phelps. Maybe if they were repeating what they did last year someone would bite on a big deal, but neither of them are young guys, and both of their performances have pretty significantly dipped so far this year. Each of them has been worth 0.3 bWAR so far this year, Prado has been worth -0.1 fWAR (Phelps 0.3fWAR). I don’t see any way they’re getting someone of Devers caliber, even if they pay for both contracts entirely.
Have you ever seen your GM in action? There is no such thing as ANY prospect that is not going anywhere for anything.
If you want quality, you give quality to get….doesn’t sound as if this guy Chavis is nothing but a maybe, and you seriously don’t think Miami is just going to give both Prado and Phelps away do you Boston?
Typical Red Sox proposal….give nothing and expect everything.
In all fairness if they are taking on Prado’s contract they aren’t going to give up much. Phelps well the dearth of quality relief arms might not help his package. They’ll get some decent prospects, but don’t expect the world. Prado is pretty expensive for the player he is. Realistically, if the Marlins are in a contract shredding mode they most likely will tear it as far down as they can. But Prado/Gordon are biggish type contracts in which the markets completely turned away from. They are nice piece but not franchise altering prospect returns. Now if they do decide to trade the likes of Yelich, Ozuna, JT that’s a completely different story.
Hey rocky7. That’s a mouth full coming from someone who doesn’t know who M. Chavis is. The kids a first round pick, top 100 prospect who’s mashing this year. Check his stat line and tell me the kid ain’t “quality” if anyone really thinks Devers is even being discussed in a Prado – Phelps deal your delusional.
And if you think Chavis is headliner especially since Boston is asking Miami to pay some money you’re delusional.
Most likely conclusion. Middle ground. Maybe Groome and a couple lower level pieces or maybe Travis and Chavis. A borderline top 100 player isn’t getting it done for 2 n 1/2 years of prado and phelps a formidable reliever for 1 n 1/2 years plus $.
I’m all about a good debate, and I’m not one of those homers that don’t expect to give in order to get. But are we really throwing around the names Groome and or Devers in a Prado – Phelps deal? Boston has been clear Devers isn’t going anywhere. And as far as Groom goes. Has the kid even thrown 100 pitches for the Redsox organization yet?
Groome is far too much as a headliner for a 3b with no power and making too much they don’t even need beyond 2017 with Devers waiting. I’m not even in favor of moving Chavis to be honest to add to an already stacked BP when over the offseason he could be part of moves then when prices are a lot cheaper.
let the marlins sell them off to teams in dire need, not a team that really only has 1 weakness.
That’s rich coming from a Yankees fan who thinks that the Yankees should get Hand form the Padres for DNA of Babe Ruth because he isn’t worth any of your top 10 prospects.
If not Devers it’ll be Groome and Chavis. minimum because of the salary.
You can dream.
Not the worst trade proposal but I’d be shocked if the Sox sacrificed Devers in any deal. He seems like their only real untouchable at the moment but with DD at the helm anything is possible.
If I were the Fish, I’d be willing to do Prado and Phelps, salary relief (10 mil) for three top 20 prospects with the exception of Devers. One of the three has to be top 5 though.
Highly doubt the Red Sox trade either Devers or Groome at the deadline.
Couldn’t agree more.
The Sox won’t trade Devers, Not happening!
Franco of the Phillies is a Perfect fit for Boston , young Power bat, and way Better Fielder and Cheaper as far money goes .than Prado. And he’ll befit from a chance pf scenery .
Two Top Prospects gets it Done !
Question is is Boston Ready to make a move That get them that they say they want too be ,
Franco is a terrible fit they have long term options they need a rental
Their long term options are a prospect that they aren’t willing to move up to the spot. You can’t count Devers as a long term option until he at least gets promoted and shows he can play in MLB. If I were a sox fan I would rather see Dave trade the farm for some controllable players rather than just a rental for a year they aren’t going to win anyway.
Aren’t willing to move up a spot? The ONLY reason Devers hasn’t been promoted to triple A is because they currently have a log jam at 3rd base. They aren’t going to promote a kid and have No place to play him. Also, Dave doesn’t consider AAA to be a place you have to play necessarily, he believes you can jump from Double A to the Majors (see Andrew Benintendi).
Franco has been atrocious this year after being mediocre last year. You really think the Red Sox are giving two top prospects for him? The only way he’s getting moved is if the Phillies sell extremely low on him, and 2 top prospects (heck, any top prospects) is not that.
Franco is Better Fit in Boston , he’s a pull Hitter and Beat the Wall like Drum last month !
And He is a Better Fielding third Baseman than anything out there ( And Younger ) !
Boston , always overvalues (again) over Values it’s prospects !
His defense at third is below average so not real sure what you mean by “better then anything out there”. Yup the Red Sox totally overvalued Betts, Xander, JBJ, Benintendi and that Pedroia guy he was way over rated also. It’s a very tired argument that Boston always overvalued there prospects every team overvalued there prospects but the Red Sox have hit on higher percentage then just about any other team out there in recent years.
inconsistent Capitalization Gets annoying after a While.
But why trade for Franco when you could just call up Devers? Won’t know what you have until he plays with Sox and Franco has had a tough sophomore campaign, which you may get out of Devers….they’re getting by with the platoon, so they can fall back on that if Devers can’t hack it yet.
Now I’m just spit-balling here so excuse me if I’m way off base, but in some reality do you think the Phillies and Red Sox would work out a deal that would be Franco and Benoit for Sandoval (his entire contract) and Devers?
I cannot see the Red Sox trading Devers at this time but if the Phillies were willing to take that awful contract, which they would not, DD would have to think long and hard about that.
The Phillies are in a weird place. Right now they project to having a $35 million payroll in 2018 and that’s if they don’t replace Rupp, Hernandez, and Galvis with Alfaro, Kingery, and Crawford. Most teams would love that but Phillies’ ownership is afraid of fan backlash if they have a payroll that’s too low. So they added payroll in the off-season without caring if the players could play.
Dombrowski probably dropped his coffee when Klentak said he’d take all of Clay Buchholz’s contract. So, yes the Phillies will take all of that awful contract in the right deal. They’ll have a difficult time increasing payroll by enough if they don’t take bad contracts in trades.
I think the Phillies will package odubel and rupp in the off season. They have seen enough of odubel. That reduces their payroll further. And they have so many prospect players to protect I’m convinced they will start doing trades like 3 or4 of them for 1 Controlled MLB regulars or starting pitchers. Then 2018 spend on FA if any are still avail
That Pablo contract dump is not too far outside what Phil’s did last off season as Coast1 said. It would take another low level pitcher added by sox to get rid of Pablo, save themselves the salary penalty get Benoit and Franco but I think it could happen.
Very safe and smart interest by the Red Sox
sounds like the Red Sox are willing to bump their payroll if they grab even half of both these contracts. $11.5 mil for Prado in ’17 and $4.6 mil for Phelps…..not sure what remaining on those deals but thats a significant chunk of change.
I would take Frazier at $12 mil before Prado at $11.5 mil
Frazier
.367 OBP in June
.448 OBP in July so far
Who’s the better player, Prado or Cody Bellinger? I’ve heard both are nice people
The Red Sox could fit both Prato and Phelps and stay under the luxury tax this year but wouldn’t have much wiggle room. I really hope that DD does not pull the trigger on this one though.
“Prado”
Well that would depend on what you have to give and is there anything left of value within the Boston system given trader DD?
Do you really think Miami is just going to take scraps to lower payroll, as they have to have something called a team for Loria to be able to sell at the price he wishes.
Again leverage comes into play and Boston doesn’t have it here….Miami is in the drivers seat given Boston’s needs….you give to get.. but you gotta have something to give!
Well Rocky your right the Red Sox don’t have a loaded farm system anymore but that is because the key ones are on the big club they have graduated. DD has traded from his surplus to improve the team. With that being said the Red Sox have plenty of ammunition to get Prado and Phelps if they want too I hope they don’t do it because using any assets on Prado especially I don’t think is a good move.
I would be ok with this as long as the Marlins eat some/the bulk of Prados contract and as long as the Return is reasonable. I would be fine with them trading a guy like Chavis as the centerpiece and some lesser prospects and maybe Rutledge. No way in hell do the Red Sox trade Deverse, he is the reason why they are only targeting rentals. Where as Chavis is not only blocked by all the talent that has already made it to the bigs but is blocked by Deverse as well. But guys like Groome Deverse Travis their first round pick this year and Johnson should be off limits.
A package of Chavis Owens Rutledge and Hembree/Workman(one of them) should get them both Prado Phelps and some money to pay Prados remaining contract.
They aren’t trading Hembree if they want Phelps. That’s pointless. So is Owens, Rutledge. Nobody wants your hand me downs. You actually have to give up talent. Chavis is a good start but not a Headliner.
Chavis is the Red Sox number 4 prospect so I’m guessing he would be the headliner in this deal probably Chavis someone else in the 8 to 10 rang and a 15-20 type prospect should get it done.
Devers
Jed Gyorko and Trevor Rosenthal for Devers. Ain’t gonna happen, but would be a major upgrade for Boston
I’m not going to disagree with you that would be an upgrade for Boston this season and DD would have to consider that but I think DD is not going to trade Devers he is very high on him and Devers was the reason that they could trade Moncada for Sale. Interesting thought though.
Cant give up Sam Travis or Devers…. This wouldnt be a problem had they kept Shaw. Hard to believe they needed to give up and couldnt have been patient
Travis Shaw was an over .900 ops hitter and playing at least average defense last year in the first then tailed off so badly he was an automatic out by the end season. He has had a really nice first half same as last year let’s see what happens in the second half of the year.
What if Betts moved to third base and Sox traded for a quality right fielder? That would give Devers more time At Pawtucket to develop. Betts has played 2nd base before.
While we’re at it, let’s just move Benintendi to shortstop. New positions can’t be that challenging to learn at the professional level…
If Betts was ever going to move out of the outfield, it would only be to second base (where he played in the minors) or possibly SS. I’d be willing to bet that the Sox trade Lin by the deadline.
MLB going the way of the NBA! #positionlessbaseball
When Big Papi retired the Sox thought they would have the ability to be much more flexible with the lineup . Well with Hanley Ramirez’ bum shoulder (?)not allowing him to play 1st base, it has hamstrung Farrell somewhat. I would like to see Dombrowski inquire about the availability of super utility man Josh Harrison. As long as the price was not to prohibitive .
Travis Shaw was NEVER a part of the future. He was never a top prospect, never a person they had penciled in for their future plans, the future is Devers!
Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. Play Lin till Devers gets call up.
Mistake for Red Sox , every Game Counts for a Contender, a Gamer Lost in July is never made up in Sept when Five Games out with ten to Play !
I called this before nightingale did. I knew the sox would be after Prado… just for his clubhouse leadership alone….. Jeeze maybe I can quit my day job now . Lol
clubhouse leadership, less financial flexibility for 2017 plus two more years…..all for a sub .300 OBP 33 yr old. Sounds like a win-win situation for every team in baseball except the Red Sox.
I’d rather see a trade for Yunel Escobar and Bud Norris. Not sure if they could pry them away but that’d be much more solid than a Prado n Phelps package.
Would like to see Dombrowski make a play for Josh Harrison of the Pirates . Solid player who can play multiple positions, including 3rd . Chavis,( climbing the prospect charts) would have to be included ,along with another strong prospect . Devers and Groome are close to untouchable. Boston’s inability to develop Frontline starting pitchers makes Groome untouchable
Devers and Groome shouldn’t be untouchable. Right now the Red Sox have long time players at LF, CF RF SS. Pedroia will be effective for several more years and Devers is only potential. He hasn’t played at a high enough level to be certain he’ll be the answer at 3B for years to come. Also, getting a non long term solution for prospects is simply stupid. Prado isn’t worth considering. Frazier isn’t worth considering. Harrison is ok if you truly believe Devers will be as good as Betts, Bogaertz and Benintendi but that’s a long shot. Donaldson is young enough and wants to win enough that he would be awesome as a big right-handed bat in the middle of the line-up who plays outstanding defense and hits for power. He won a MVP and he’s having a down season so his price is as low as it will ever be. Donaldson for Groome and Devers. Sale, Price, Rodriguez is a tough post season line-up and if Porcello gets right, that’s a bonus as is Pomeranz. The Red Sox need a stud at 3B not a quick fix. I’ll take Donaldson over Devers in two years and I’m not sure Groome would be a top three pitcher in the next two years so we could win 3 WS before these great prospects ever get to the point of adding value.
Why would Toronto ever trade Donaldson to the Red Sox? Not happening. As for Devers, why are you so quick to knock such a highly regarded prospect? Scouts drool over this kid and his natural power, i’d say it comes with good reason.
Willy, If the Red Sox don’t put both Devers and Groome in the deal Toronto wouldn’t do the deal. You just raved about Devers like many scouts do so there is your answer as to why Toronto will consider the deal. Yes, same division but Groome and Devers could haunt the Red Sox for years and Donaldson could haunt Toronto for years but same division trades are commonplace these days. It’s all about the money. Two top shelf players for an aging Donaldson has to be enticing, especially with him performing badly this year. For the Red Sox, you simply have to believe Donaldson has allot more in the tank. This deal would allow Toronto management to go all in on rebuilding instead of trying to straddle the fence another year.
I understand How a trade could take place and why But interdivisional trades don’t happen very often and it isn’t about to start now. No one that i am aware of has said the Blue Jays are rebuilding, where are you getting that from? Donaldson has 1 more year left after this one on his deal, if and that’s a big if Toronto is to deal him it won’t be til the summer of 2018, not now.
You mention money but don’t think of where the Sox are in this equation. Why would they trade their best prospects for the short term and expensive use of Donaldson? They are trying to get under the luxury tax threshold this season to reset things, if they acquired Donaldson and half of his $17m salary they couldn’t also acquire a reliever, which they’re looking to do.
Sorry but 1- 1/2 years of Donaldson isn’t worth Devers & anyone else to me let alone Groome.
Willy,
It’s easy to say that a trade like the one I’ve suggested won’t happen now but if both teams feel that it’s a win for them, the deal will happen. If you had argued that most trades don’t involve big name players like Donaldson I think you would have had a stronger argument because that’s true except at the trading deadline.
You have lots of comments that are opinions stated as if they are facts. Would DD exceed the luxury tax threshold for Donaldson? He probably would weigh the chances of a WS victory versus the penalty and go to ownership and ask for it if he thought their chances would be excellent. So, boldly stating that they won’t go over is fine but it’s one person’s opinion. Circumstances logically will dictate if that is true or false. No way to know what’s in DD head.
Next assumption you make is Donaldson for 1 1/2 years. If I were DD and I wanted Donaldson it wouldn’t be for 1 1/2 years. I’d make sure he would consider an extension thru his 36 year old season at a price that is going to make him want to do the deal. The reason I picked Donaldson is that there aren’t many players who can replace a Papi for clutch, leadership and overall skills. Of the players on teams that need to rebuild, I think Donaldson is the best candidate to help Pedroia teach the young guys how to win. The Red Sox need fire, they need maturity and they need 3B skills from somewhere. To get them to be a team that can compete for a ring, they need some catalyst to make it happen. Papi’s loss is huge. My vote is Donaldson. If you have a better suggestion speak up. I’m interested in hearing something that would be better for Boston. It’s not Prado or the other temps. It might not be Devers, we’ve never seen him play at a MLB level. I’m not even sure he’s better than Chavis. We are talking about how to help the Red Sox win a WS again. Standing pat seems like a bad choice, planning on winning when Devers makes it to the bigs (if he does) seems like a bad choice for the next few years so going out and finding an impact 3B seems to make the most sense to me.
Scroll down the 3B depth chart around baseball and tell me of another guy even close to Donaldson’s ability that could be gotten. I am completely open to suggestions! (Hint: Prado is a wrong answer!)
Last point, my opinion is the Blue Jays need to rebuild. I think dumping Encarnacion and Bautista at years end in 2016 was an indicator that they are thinking along those lines. Taking Bautista back is either a sign that they don’t mind straddling the fence or they will clean house at the end of 2017 so they can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox in the future. Devers and Groome would fit within those plans. If they want to keep straddling the fence like the Phillies did, good luck with that. If they think they can get a better deal for Donaldson outside of the division, good luck with that. Even though it’s an in-division trade, it makes sense for both teams. So it all comes down to Toronto’s willingness to admit that it’s time to retool/rebuild/shed salary. Remember, the free agency market has some big names coming up so they could spend the money saved by purging now and then in a year or two using their newly built farm system products they could add a couple of key FAs and compete once again for a title. But first they must admit that it’s that time. I don’t know if they are ready to admit that but giving up a quality player like Encarnacion and trying to get rid of Bautista seems like it’s a strong possibility…
I’m not assuming anything, I follow the Sox extremely closely and know pretty much everything that is said.
I can’t stand Prado so that wouldn’t be a name I would pick, not sure why you think I would.
If Moustakas isn’t available then my pick would be ADRIAN BELTRE if they’re willing to go over the luxury tax and if they aren’t then Eduardo Nuñez (SF), which I believe could be acquired w/o giving up Devers or Groome, two guys Dombrowski has basically said are untouchable and with good reason.
Willy,
Moustakas is unlikely since they are in contention and their team is hot going into the break. Beltre is set to retire soon so it’s hard to say how long you will have him. Nunez is a quick fix that I like because of speed and batting average, his Red Sox=like ability to get deep into counts and his ability to play multiple positions if Devers/Chavis breakout and earn a starting spot on the team..
I’m sure you follow the Red Sox closer than I do but Moncada and Kopech are so far beyond Devers and Groome in skill that suggesting they are untouchable seems unlikely for the right trade. Sale made sense because he was a top 5 pitcher. Donaldson is a MVP from a couple of years ago and a top 10 player until he slumped this year. If DD has said they are untouchable, my guess is he is positioning himself for trading them. If you get ‘untouchables’ from a team that makes it seem like an even better deal for the other team. Smart move if DD said that.
I hope what you’ve read is wrong about the two players being untouchable. As I have explained, the farm system needs to provide what the big league team needs and they need a 3B NOW not two years from now maybe if Devers or Chavis prove worthy.
FYI… One reason I think a guy like Groome is expendable is that the draft this year was outstanding for the Red Sox. Again, timing your farm system is as key as loading it. The pitchers they got this year will arrive in a couple of years to replace the Porcellos and Prices. Follow Scherff closely. He’s a kid who a year ago was ranked #1 in HS pitchers and could hit triple digits as a junior. Texas HS baseball is like California and Florida HS baseball, the competition is far better than up north. Better players can come from up north but the depth of talent in those three states is far greater than anywhere else. I’ve lived in Illinois, New Jersey and Texas and the HS stadiums in Texas rival college stadiums and the number of excellent players per team seem much greater. Scherff dominated throughout HS against very good competition. If he doen’t have arm problems, he’ll be a starter or possibly a closer in 3 or 4 years.maybe less. Houck, another potential stud.
One last time, untouchable minor leaguers is pride talking not good baseball. Nobody should be untouchable, they just vary in cost. We had a stud 3B named Will Middlebrooks who hit .288 in 2012 and looked to be the future at 3B. How did that turn out? There are no guarantees with guys like Devers and Groome. Someone who was a more like guarantee was Moncada, but even he failed. To be fair, he was in the bigs too soon but it just goes to show, there are no guarantees. Heck, Yuli Gurriel was the best player in Cuba for 10 years and he struggled out of the gate in the MLB, even with all his experience and high level competition. So we need to put the egos aside and stop thinking that our prospects have magic that others don’t and are locks to be great as MLB players. They are nothing more than pure potential yet to be realized!! Their greatest value could be in trade not performance…
There is a big difference between Moncada and Devers (i’ve seen them both in minor league games). Moncada can’t hit off-speed stuff, Devers can. Moncada had to deal with a position change and his defense was never good to begin with. Devers has done a great job of taking coaching and learning very quickly. I would bet my house on Devers being a very good MLB player, I can’t say that about Moncada. Also, what is Moncada’s motivation? He is already a millionaire and has never played a significant game in the Majors.
I also have become friendly with Ben Badler who writes a scouting report type article on the youth in baseball, I trust his opinion above everyone’s. I also am a religious follower of Alex Speier (108 stitches), who is the most “informed” guy in the Red Sox media. He does an excellent job of keeping people informed on all levels of Red Sox baseball, players and all.
You may feel comfortable trading Devers (who isn’t 2 years away, he’s months away, by next season at the most) but I, myself would NOT trade him, not for almost anyone and least of all for an injured Donaldson.
P.S., Adrian Beltre isn’t retiring, he won’t retire until his contract is done.
Willy,
Ben Badler has been my favorite source on latin players for years. I completely agree. I don’t know Speier but based on your knowledge of the Red Sox and liking Badler I believe what you say about Speier..
I disagree on your assessment of players. I believe Moncada is not just a little bit better, I think he is a once in a generation type player. My biggest fear is that he’ll develop what I call “Cano” syndrome. In essence he’ll become too nonchalant in his approach to fielding. His speed is far beyond that of Devers, his hands I believe are better than Devers and his batting average and power are better than Devers. It’s one person’s opinion not fact. I understand you disagree and only time will tell.
If Devers comes up this year and is successful I will be incredibly happy as a life-long Red Sox fan. I will also be completely surprised because I don’t think has the skillset to do that.
I’m a fantasy baseball junky and to show you the value I place on Devers, I just traded him straight up for Vlad Guerrero Jr. Maybe it’s a mistake but from where I stand, Guerrero has a huge advantage just like Moncada. Once again, I hope you are right for the Red Sox’s sake but I wouldn’t bet on it.
I live in the Texas Rangers market and he almost retired last year. Each off season he evaluates his health and desire to play and makes a decision. I’m not convinced he will finish his contract. He has enough money. It’s more about quality of life.
Great debate, thanks for taking the time. Again, hope you are right about Devers.
Don’t get me wrong….Moncada has many a tool, Speed is chief among them and I’ve seen it in person But because of his issues with off-speed stuff, subpar fielding, not always knowing how to use that speed and a possible lack of desire (already a millionaire) make me lean to Devers side. Devers can’t run, that was never his thing but the kid can hit and I believe he’ll be a more consistent hitter (once developed should be a .290 to .300 hitter) and HR hitter (once developed should be a 30 HR hitter) in today’s game.
I believe Moncada (if he ever figures out off-speed stuff) will be a .270 or so hitter with alot of Doubles/Triples (with his speed) with the occasional HR (15-20HR’s), he’s no Aaron Judge or even Cano. *There haven’t been many switch hitters that hit for big power, the Yankees have had most of them over the years (Beltre, Teixeira…).
Have a good one as well.
Read this please (weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/double-portland-manag…)
`Willy, you quote a coach who is currently coaching one player and the other player isn’t even in the Red Sox organization? Seriously. No bias perceived by you? I bet Moncada’s current coach would tell you Devers can’t hold a candle to Moncada. So what does that prove? It proves the writer that you respect sucks. He should have framed the comments in context so folks can understand it’s a completely biased comparison. That is bad sports journalism. A coach being loyal to his current player, that’s nothing new. That article wasn’t worth the paper it would have been written on had it been in a newspaper!!
I didn’t quote a coach. I simply sent an article for anyone to read and take for what they want. How a person perceives a written article is up to them. If you or anyone likes Moncada over Devers then fine, I don’t happen to, end of story.
Willy,
I take no issue with you liking Devers more. I just hate when bad reporting happens and fans or fantasy players start quoting things that are meaningless. You mentioned two writers and I think you did a huge disservice to Ben Badler by putting the other guy at his level.
Here is today’s update from Ben Badler on Devers. It is objective, comprehensive and very, very positive explaining how his skills have matured and identifying sources for his opinions. That’s good reporting and reliable reporting.
baseballamerica.com/minors/ben-badler-on-red-sox-t…
Also, you are a Red Sox fan, you should like Devers more than Moncada. I’m not trying to change your mind. I’m hoping folks who read these blogs begin to understand the difference between a source who is spouting opinions and a writer who does his homework and provides accurate information for evaluation of players.
I take no issue with Dever’s coach loving him, or a Boston beat writer loving him but neither is a good source for evaluating him. They are like you and me, Boston fans who want him to be great. Hopefully, he will be if he stays in Boston..
>>I just hate when bad reporting happens and fans or fantasy players start quoting things that are meaningless. You mentioned two writers and I think you did a huge disservice to Ben Badler by putting the other guy at his level.<<
Are you feeling ok? I did NO such thing. I NEVER quoted anyone and as far as the writers; I listed two guys that I swear by, that's it, I never quoted them, I never said one was better than the other and I never compared them. So NO I didn't do Ben Badler, whom I've become friendly with, a disservice. Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion but you're dead wrong.
That would be real blockbuster go for it now deal and probably about right for Donaldson. DD would have the balls to do that trade but I can’t see Toronto trading Donaldson to Bosox but if that trade came available I would think real hard on it if I was DD and I think DD would probably pull the trigger.
The Red Sox never gave Steve Selsky a true chance to succeed. Just 9 at bats. Look at the guys career OBP numbers. He is ridiculously good at getting on base. I have no clue if he is a slick with a glove or not but even if he is subpar defensively he would be a worthy temp place holder for the rest of the season.
Stay away from Prado, he isn’t worth it and makes too much money and doesn’t hit HR’s any longer. I just don’t see a match here.
Inexpensive suggestions at 3B need to be inexpensive. If Prado isn’t inexpensive he shouldn’t be considered. If I were DD I’d check into Eduardo Nunez in SF because Hwang seems to be doing the job while Nunez is out. I’d also give Oakland a call about Matt Chapman. He is a great defender with pop (sounds a bit like Devers) except he is MLB ready now. FYI, Chapman and Arenado are friends and work out in the off season together and have played together. Sources tell me the only difference is Arenado hits for a better average. That’s high praise and having watched him this year, it seems accurate. Lastly, I would go to the Cubs for Baez. The Cubs have too many fielders and need depth in their minors to get multiple pitchers. Theo might be willing to deal Baez since he has no position right now and could bring them prospects they need to get pitching.
I think the Red Sox will ultimately settle for an inexpensive veteran such as Frazier a rental unless they do a blockbuster trade.
You lost me at some point But I agree with potentially adding Nunez. I have him on my board.