After a nearly silent All-Star break on the rumor front, the Cubs and White Sox stunned the baseball world by announcing a blockbuster deal that sent left-hander Jose Quintana from Chicago’s American League club to its National League team in exchange for minor leaguers Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Matt Rose and Bryant Flete. Over the past 24 hours, both teams have addressed the media, pundits from around the media have weighed in on the swap, and others have reported details on alternative talks that each team had leading up to the blockbuster move. Here’s a before-and-after, if you will, of how what might be the summer’s biggest trade transpired…
- The Yankees, Brewers and Astros were all involved in varying levels of trade talks regarding Quintana before the Cubs ultimately acquired him, per Jon Morosi of MLB.com (via Twitter). The Braves, too, were in on Quintana “until the end,” USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets. Meanwhile, Patrick Saunders of the Denver Post tweets that the Rockies were “never really in” on Quintana despite a potential need for some rotation upgrades with some of their younger arms sputtering lately.
- The Cubs tried to engage the Tigers in trade talks on Michael Fulmer before acquiring Quintana, reports Nightengale in a full column. However, Detroit gave no indication that it was willing to listen unless the Cubs were willing to include both Javier Baez and Ian Happ in trade talks. They also inquired on Justin Verlander, per Morosi (also via Twitter), though he notes that, similarly, talks between the two sides “never gained momentum.”
- While many were stunned to see the Sox and Cubs line up on a trade — their first since 2006 — White Sox GM Rick Hahn scoffed at the notion that their shared city would serve as an impediment to trade talks, writes Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times. “This notion that we wouldn’t do business with them because they’re in town — or somehow we would actually take an inferior baseball deal for non-baseball reasons because of emotion or a rivalry or something totally unrelated to putting the best possible team on the field for the next several years — is laughable,” said Hahn. The South Side GM went on to laud Jimenez’s upside, calling him a potential middle-of-the-order bat with power potential and the ability to hit to all fields. Hahn adds that yesterday’s package was “far and away the best offer, the best possibility, that we’ve discussed with any club since we’ve started this process roughly a year or ago or so.”
- The Cubs believed that they were out of the running to acquire Quintana after talking to Hahn in June, president of baseball operations told reporters (via Gordon Wittenmyer of the Sun-Times). Hahn, though, re-engaged with Epstein on Sunday night, and the two talked over the next few days, including a conversation that included Hahn ducking behind an exhibit at All-Star FanFest in Miami to avoid being seen (per ESPN Chicago’s Jesse Rogers, on Twitter). Ultimately, it became clear that the Cubs would have to part with two of their very best prospects to get the deal done. “This deal had zero-percent chance of happening without both Eloy and Cease in it,” said Epstein. The Cubs president went on to say that they’ve been trying to acquire a pitcher like Quintana for “a long time” and added that his analytics and scouting teams “[dug] deep” to determine whether there were any changes that led to Quintana’s slow start t the season. “Our assessment on both fronts was that he is the same guy, and our staff felt that way with conviction,” Epstein said.
- Also via Wittenmyer’s column, Epstein said that the team isn’t necessarily done yet, though their play in the next two weeks will dictate what other moves are or aren’t made. “We need to play well coming out of the gates here, and we’ll assess what we’re trying to do in large part based on how we play and where we are in the standings, and how realistic we think a World Series run is this year,” Epstein said. “Everything is still on the table for this year.”
- ESPN’s Keith Law opines (Insider subscription required and recommended) that both clubs did well in the trade. The Cubs picked up a durable arm that has a near-ace-level track record over the past three years whose raw stuff “didn’t really waver” even through his struggles earlier this season. Quintana can help offset the loss of right-hander Jake Arrieta after the season, joining Jon Lester and Kyle Hendricks in the rotation for the next several years. His contract is also affordable enough that the team can comfortably pursue rotation help on the free-agent market this winter. Law projects Jimenez as a middle-of-the-order bat and suggests that he alone could’ve been an acceptable return, though the inclusion of Cease sweetens the deal. Cease has questions about his command as well as his durability and may end up in the ’pen, though his velocity and pair of potentially above-average secondary offerings make him a nice upside play. Law notes that he’s been leapfrogged by a pair of pitching prospects on the Cubs’ organizational rankings, which might’ve made him easier to deal.
- Both Nightengale and Ken Rosenthal of MLB Network opine that it’s ridiculous that this is just the second trade these two teams have made this decade and offer praise for Hahn and Epstein for their pragmatic approach to dealing with one another. Teams are making more rational and data-driven decisions than ever before, Rosenthal notes, ultimately surmising that that trend should also include a willingness to deal within the same city and within the same division.
- Yahoo’s Jeff Passan writes that Quintana’s contract was every bit as important to the Cubs as Quintana himself. With significant arbitration raises looming for players like Kris Bryant, Addison Russell, Kyle Hendricks, Javier Baez, Carl Edwards Jr. and others looming in the next two years, the team’s enviable young core is going to rapidly become considerably more expensive. Shedding money from aging veterans like Arrieta, John Lackey and Ben Zobrist will obviously free up some cash, but Quintana’s contract meets an important nexus of future payroll flexibility, remaining under the luxury tax and improving the near- and long-term roster.
nmendoza44
Everyone’s overreacting is what’s going on.
bobbleheadguru
Tigers should have been first with a deal.
White Sox are playing chess, while Tigers are playing tic-tac-toe.
bheath33
Why? Fullmer is a guy to keep and build with… and you are not going to get a good return on Verlander. They do not have a piece like Q or Sale to bring in top prospects.
MaverickDodger
Because when you’re first to make a trade and get a good package that’s now the baseline. So the Tigers already and justifiable high asking price for Fullmer will only grow. Leading to the presumption that no team will meet the asking price. It’s good because Tigers keep Fullmer. But bad because they won’t be able have any other building blocks. It’s a gamble either way. But you have to assume at some point in the next two years Fullmer will get traded
johnnyg83
Agree with bheath. Bild around Fullmer OR get blown away by a deal.
caviar79
Great trade for both sides, now trade robertson to the nats for soto and luzardo, keep it going
LH
Robertson won’t land Soto unless he’s free.
caviar79
Look at the retirn for elite closers last year, soto and luzardo fair price for robertson, ws may have to put some $$ for the rest of the contract but not that much
Pilzbrydroboy
Lmao your one of the fans that said Quintana would not get a top 50 prospect… theres a very good chance Roberton can bring back Soto or Fedde from the Nats
guille
I think in the long run the Cubs win this, although it is close.
Kayrall
If they get another world series ring with Quintana as an effective starter, then yes, otherwise, it’s so difficult to predict. This could be franchise altering for both clubs.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
I think that’s well spoken. From a fan’s perspective (without a dog in the fight; neither is a team of mine) it looks like one of those trades where both sides might win, depending on how it all works out, of course. That’s the beauty of something like this… the chess match, both sides taking something of a leap of faith, and now let’s see how the chips fall. Baseball is NEVER uninteresting!
toby312
Amen! Also what comes into play is who benefited by getting 2+ week head start before the trade deadline? Would his market have been more valuable or less at end of July? Injury to yanks SP comes to mind. Or those that thought they could play waiting game, brewers, astros etc, will they scramble for SPs now? Discuss
gcg15
The trade is already a winner for the Cubs. It won’t “alter” their franchise. They are already competitive and will be for the foreseeable future. It was just smart on their part as they get a really solid, cost controlled player. You are correct, however, that it could be franchise altering for the White Sox if Elroy becomes a big cog in their eventual rise – which is starting to feel inevitable.
Priggs89
A little shortsighted, no? What if Eloy and Cease come up and lead the White Sox to multiple rings? Do the Cubs still win the trade?
This was a great trade for both teams and fits exactly what both teams were/are trying to accomplish. Both teams are closer to a World Series because of this move.
A'sfaninUK
If the Cubs win a title, they win the trade. Same goes for any deadline deal – it does not matter what the prospect ultimately does: contending teams make deadline trades to win, if they accomplish their goal, they win the trade. Please understand this is how this game works.
Priggs89
“contending teams make deadline trades to win, if they accomplish their goal, they win the trade.”
Yeah, you’re completely missing the other side of the coin…
Rebuilding teams make deadline trades to win in the future. If they accomplish their goal, they win the trade.
In a perfect world, the Cubs would win in another championship or 2 with Quintana leading the way in the next 3 years, and the White Sox would win multiple championships with Eloy and/or Cease leading the way after that. That would be a win-win. To say that the contending team automatically wins the trade if they win a title is ridiculous.
billysbballz
The White Sox are closer to the World Series after this trade? You said both teams are closer? Actually that’s so inaccurate. These teams are at opposite spectrums. One team the Cubs is built for now and for next potentially 3-4 years plus of sustained winning the Sox are stock piling up on assets to evaluate which ones will be worth building a core around. But to say the Sox are closer to anything is not true. Just painting you a picture. The Cubs ste that one player away
billysbballz
Cubs are one player away. Teams like the Red Sox, Houston, dodgers, and Cleveland are in that same window. Teams like the Yanks who are building a very solid young foundation which the Cubs have are determining which prospects are going to be going forward into the next potential decade with them while trying to compete for a wild card spot this year while clearly not the one player or even two players away. They are more like 3-4 players away with a very young strong foundation emerging but a tricky path as to which prospects to not sell and which ones they could afford to sell to fill in pieces.
Priggs89
Yes, the White Sox are closer to winning a World Series with this move than they were 2 days ago. If you don’t understand that, it’s ok, but it’s absolutely true.
Looking back, I should rephrase what I was originally saying. I’m not saying The Cubs can “lose” the trade if they win a championship. If they win a championship, it’s a win in their book. But if Eloy and/or Cease help the White Sox win multiple championships, they can win the trade more than the Cubs, although it still wouldn’t be a “loss” for them.
johnnyg83
I agree Priggs. I can’t figure out the other guy’s thinking.
A'sfaninUK
No, its not. At all. Can’t downvote this post hard enough.
Matter of fact, deadline trades shouldn’t even be viewed as “won/loss” – save that for offseason ones where every team has the same 0-0 record. With deadline trades, the goals are different, but losing an established MLB player for minor leaguers is an automatic fail on the team trading the player they produced. The fact that the team isn’t contending means the front office has already failed in their job.
A'sfaninUK
No its not, Eloy might never play in MLB. Quintana knows how to get MLB players out and pitches 200 innings a year due to his flawless mechanics. Why do you think prospects are automatically going to be MLB superstars? Clearly you haven’t been following the game long enough to have witnessed the oft-said line of “prospects will break your heart”. Its okay, you’ll learn after time.
Priggs89
In what world did I ever say Eloy was guaranteed to be a superstar. You seem to not know what “IF” means…
Saleaway
So did the Cubs lose the Samardizja Addison Russel trade because they were in the process of a rebuild??
A'sfaninUK
” the White Sox are closer to winning a World Series with this move than they were 2 days ago. If you don’t understand that, it’s ok, but it’s absolutely true.”
That would imply that these prospects they currently have will all pan out into stars, no? Because they absolutely are not closer to a WS after this trade in the slightest. You are projecting massively here.
A'sfaninUK
No, they won it because the A’s did not win a title in 2014 (although Semien, Phegley and Bassit might help them salvage that deal).
fatelfunnel
So Theo was a failure his first three years in Chicago?
bigjonliljon
What if the prospects turn into nothing at the major league level? There only in A ball. Far from a sure thing.
johnnyg83
What if Quintana blows out his elbow? You can’t see the future but you can make a present-day decision with available data and make a reasonable prediction.
CarlosMaysThumb
Too much emphasis on who will “win” the deal. A good trade helps both sides and this trade accomplishes that. One team hoping to win now gets a player that can help them achieve that goal, while the team looking a few years down the road gets assets that make that seem more likely. Trades, unlike games, do not necessarily have winners and losers.
Djones246890
Technically speaking, you really aren’t making trades to “win” it.
You’re making a trade because you have a need that needs to be addressed, and so does the other team.
This trade is a perfect example. Both teams win. The Cubs are ready to win now, and they get a proven starter.
The White Sox are rebuilding, and they get pieces that help them do that.
That is the epitome of what a trade should be. Both teams help each other.
Danny37
If I could upvote you more than once just for your username, I would.
ilikebaseball 2
I don’t get why people would argue this point. Makes no sense its like thinking buying a few more lottery tickets means your closer to winning the lottery.
ray_derek
What if “The Rock” becomes president? Will there even be baseball?
donniebaseball
@Just Another Fan
If you’re worried that some of your prospects might bust, you can always trade them for established major league players when the time comes. The white sox made a great deal because they were never going to win with quintana anyways, and at least now they have two very high quality prospects- who you can either a) trade for established controllable players like the cubs just did or b) take the risk they don’t bust and get 2 very good, cheap, controllable players for the next 7 years.
gcg15
They are no doubt “closer”. What is silly though is for anyone to proclaim their team, no matter how good the core of prospects, will win the World Series. We’re talking about a sport at the highest level. All you can do is consistently be in a position to win and then hope things really break your way. Winning is hard to do for anyone. Hell, look at the Cubs last year. They won 103 games and still had to scratch and claw to win the series.
Pilzbrydroboy
JAF is just basball stupid
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Considering the Cubs may not be able to afford their core for the next decade, yes, it can still be a win for both. The Cubs are in win-now mode and this maximizes their opportunities. Plus, Eloy could be the next Mike Trout and he’s still not enough to single-handedly put the Sox in the WS. So if the move wins one more ring for the Cubs, but two more for the Sox, I think both teams will be very happy with it. Keeping Eloy likely wouldn’t have given those rings to the Cubs and Chicago wasn’t going to be ready until Q’s last year (assuming things go according to plan).
I Believe We Can Win
Yankees are a 1B, 3B, CF, LF, 4 starting pitchers, 3 pen options away from even being a contender. No matter how good a prospect is they could live up to the hype or bust.
Pilzbrydroboy
HEY guys this is something JUST ANOTHER FAN posted in another thread……”The A’s are about to cake up with ready-now prospects or even current logjammed young stars with Gray, Alonso, Lowrie (3rd in MLB in doubles), Madson having a career year and Doolittle being the highest ceiling reliever available (but obviously with health concerns).
They need upgrades in all 3 OF positions and C. They have enough pitching. Pretty sure they will be targeting guys like Almora & Eloy from the Cubs and Tapia from the Rox. The above group of guys are upgrades to every contender and have tons of value. Can’t wait to see Beane work his midyear magic again (and hopefully for the last time because the youth is looking gooood and they’re not too far off from contending” (Just another fan).
Pilzbrydroboy
JUST ANOTHER FAN is just salty the White Sox made a big trade for Quintana and mad they got a Jimenez. A prospect he wanted the A’s to get for Gray lol
frankiegxiii
Wait wait wait… so if team A trades a pitcher to Team B for a position player prospect and the pitcher wins the CYA the next 4 years in a row and the prospect never makes it past rookie ball, and the team that got the pitcher didn’t win a WS in that 4 years, team B loses the trade just because they didn’t win the WS???
donnniewore23
You are absolutely correct. But – remember – the NYYs never really expected to contend this year or even ’18. The overall plan was aimed toward 2019. They have almost $100m coming off the books this year (w Tanaka?) which will put them under the cap for the ’18 FA class. Cheap/Under Control players @ (4) OF spots (Judge, Frazier, Fowler, Hicks), C (Sanchez), (3) IF’s (Torres, Andujar & Wade). And (2) SPS (Montgomery & Saverino). PLUS A LOADED MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM.
$$MONEY$$ + A Young Group of ML ready players + a GREAT Farm System = ANOTHER YANKEE DYNASTY in 2019-2024.
JKB 2
I agree with Priggs too
sloopjonb
Don’t know your definition of long run, but if the Cubs “win” this deal it will be due to team success in 2018 or 19. If one team decidedly wins this deal in the “long run”, it would be the Sox. I don’t expect Jimenez to be in the bigs until 2019 or perhaps later. Mypoint is, if the Cubs win or even reach the WS in the next 3 seasons, I’d say they win, regardless of how good or bad Jimenez is for the Sox in the long run. And if Jimenez is even close to being as good as many think he can be, Sox win, regardless of Quintana’s performance (not to mention they other prospects in the deal). Quintana pitching like an ace over the next couple seasons (or not) doesn’t make a huge difference for the Sox because they will likely still be in rebuild during those years. Quite possible they can both win.
JKB 2
Both teams did well in the trade
johnnyg83
This trade fits the current strategy of both teams. It’s a win-win today. Long term, we’ll see.
jdgoat
For some reason people need there to be a loser though. This trade should be the definition of a win-win, as it stands right now
guille
Wasn’t trying to find a ‘loser’, just pointing out that I like the mentality of the Cubs in doing this, and I don´t particularly find the prospects return mindboggling, so for me it could possibly work better for the Cubs than the White Sox. Could very well be a big WIN-WIN trade
JKB 2
I agree with JD goat
A'sfaninUK
To the guy in the other thread who asked me what I thought Fulmer was worth and I said “your top 3-4 prospects plus an established young MLB star” – I was off by 1 MLB young star 🙂 – bottom line, Fulmer is one of the most valuable assets out there.
sloopjonb
agreed. If Detroit is truly selling (and they should be), I can’t imagine he’d be a guy they are shopping. Way too much value. If they blow it all up and hypothetically could only keep one guy, it’s probably Fulmer. He has like 5-6 years of cheap control. A deal for him would make this Quintana trade look like nothing.
A'sfaninUK
Yep, I’m guessing they asked Happ, Baez, Eloy, Cease and one or two others for Fulmer alone – and that’s his correct value. Anything less is not worth it from their perspective
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Bahahaha! Oh… you weren’t joking? Fulmer is good, no doubt, but he’s 1.5 seasons in and that value is more like Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson in their primes plus a deal like Q’s. I know Fulmer has more control, but he’s not a superstar. Maybe later, but not yet. I’d take a young Verlander over Fulmer.
shelteredsoxfan
I think the tigers should keep fulmer. He’s the guy they can build around.
Djones246890
Anyone criticizing he Cubs trade is a casual Sunday fan, or bandwagon fan, who doesn’t understand baseball.
The Cubs’ prospect success is a blessing, but it’s also a curse, from a fan standpoint. These people start falling in love with guys who have never played one day in the MLB.
Prospects are hit or miss. That’s why the Cubs just gave up FOUR of them. 2 having potential to be really good, and 2 that most likely won’t pan out and will be career AAA-ballers.
The Cubs are built to win NOW, and they need pitching. It’s their Achilles heel. They don’t need any more position players.
Great trade by Theo and Co.
A'sfaninUK
Agreed, if anything Quintana was worth one more top 10-15 prospect from the Cubs, like Candelario – the trade was actually a slight underpay.
donniebaseball
I completely agree that prospects can bust, but I definitely think the cubs could have gotten more for eloy and cease as prospects in a year. That’s why I don’t like it. Wait a year and they might have been able to get a younger, better, more controllable pitcher than quintana.
donniebaseball
I think the cubs will end up regretting this trade. They could have gotten a better, younger, more controllable pitcher back for them in a year or two when jimenez and cease were closer to the majors. Think about torres. The guy had massive talent, but was in Single A. As a result, the best the cubs could get for him was half a year of chapman. Now this year, before his injury, he was in AA and being talked about the centerpiece of a potential Gerit Cole trade. Although I understand why they did the deal, I don’t like the trade for the cubs because they got half the value they would have gotten in a year.
A'sfaninUK
Did they regret the Torres trade?
Do you understand that winning a title now is the MOST important thing to a MLB front office?
Because that is reality. When you are contending now, winning a title is all that matters. Prospect hounds/nerds seem to constantly ignore this set-in-stone fact.
Danny37
I kind of miss those Brewers prospect hounds from the other day right now. Either they were way wrong about what kind of haul Quintana would fetch, or Theo Epstein and crew shouldn’t be running a pro baseball team.
johnnyg83
How anyone can say Theo Esptein shouldn’t be running a baseball team is beyond comprehension. He brought three titles to the two losingest baseball teams in baseball history.
A'sfaninUK
Prospect hounds are ALWAYS wrong with how contending MLB teams value them at the deadline. They will always flip them for an established MLB star who can help get them into the playoffs.
A'sfaninUK
I love how big babies prospect nerds are on this site – keep on downvoting me, I’ll keep on getting proven right and you’ll continually be wrong. Get down with how MLB works or keep getting sad when your precious prospects get traded for MLB regulars.
Danny37
Read closer, my friend. I was pointing out how far off some prospect lovers were. My post was in no way indicative of Theo’s resume, which I believe is stellar.
donniebaseball
Personally I understand the cubs trade and am ok with them making it, I just thought they didn’t maximize the value of eloy, cease, and rose as trade chips. As a ridiculous hypothetical, if you traded the entire yankees farm for julio teheran, when they could have easily acquired syndergaard instead, you would be less inclined to say the yankees won that deal.
echointhecaves
Well, the losingest baseball team is history is the cubs, the 2nd is the white sox, and the third is the red sox, so Epstein’s broken two of the three longest championship droughts in baseball.
And heck, maybe Eloy Jiminez ends up hitting the game winner for the white sox in the 2021 world series.
davidcoonce74
Umm, you do realize that ever “MLB Regular” was once a “prospect,” right?
Kylesamac
We ignore it because of the long term cost-benefit. You can contend and win multiple titles for the next decade or you can win one title now.
Ask the Astros how well the Carlos Gomez trade worked out for them as they now have to over pay for Beltran when they could have Phillips or Domingo Santana occupying that spot.
Additionally it has limited their ability to make moves now as they don’t have those two on top of what they have already to deal from. So yes hording prospects for the long term and minimizing the damage for the right deal keeps in mind the long-term and short-term.
This wasn’t the right deal for the Cubs IMO as it is trying to make a hangover season work when they could simply let things go and come back again next year healthy and back to form. Even with Arietta possibly leaving they have a ton of options to replace him with this offseason and could of gotten Quintana at a much lower price.
johnnyg83
I think the Astros are OK with their lineup these days.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I doubt they could have gotten Q at a much lower price. White Sox asking price was high, but they weren’t budging too much because of how many teams were in the running for him. They were counting on a bidding war between win-now teams and the Cubs just struck early. Someone would have met their price and, if not, they would have held him and dealt him this offseason. The Sox had all the leverage in this situation.
davbee
“Do you understand that winning a title now is the MOST important thing to a MLB front office?”
And this trade still has the Cubs behind the Dodgers and Astros, with those teams poised to make moves to improve themselves. This deal placates the fan base in the short run but has little effect on the balance of power.
TrueOutcomeFan
Two things… I’m not sure you fully appreciate Quintana. Who else was available that’s better at that price (trade package and payroll)?
donniebaseball
As of now, no one. That’s why the cubs made that trade. However, I think the cubs could have received a better, younger pitcher in a year or two with eloy, cease, and rose having another year of experience under their belt to grow-making them more major league ready, thus increasing their value.
JKB 2
Oh now its a better younger pitcher in a year or TWO now huh? Again you cannot name one. Q is 28 by the way. How many like that come available.
Now genius you want to hold the prospects for two years to trade for a better pitcher who so now you so not have Q or the phantom better pitcher for the 2017 or 2018 pennant races moron!
JKB 2
Donnie baseball knows nothing about baseball. Wow. Wait a year and get a better pitcher? Please tell us WHO that is? They got Q now for 4 pennant races. Wait a year and what about THIS year?? Again WHO is this better pitcher they get. EJ is a top 5 prospect in baseball. How much more value does he have next year? Suppose he goes to AA and does not as well. Suppose Cease gets hurt again? Bla bla.
Also for Torres he being in A ball did not hurt his prospect ranking.
bigcheesegrilledontoast
Awesome trade, watch Arrieta have a big second half now. The Cubs have put Washington and LA on notice. Cubs still have plenty of young players, their already in the majors!
spartan-i7
Astros get: Fulmer and J. Wilson
Tigers get: Tucker, Martes, Whitley, Reed, Cameron
Trade immediately improves Astros, while helping to refuel Tigers farm. Astros get to keep Fisher, Perez, and Paulino too.
jdgoat
That’s a huge package, and i still think that’s probably not enough. Detroit will want Bregman
A'sfaninUK
Did you not read that the Tigers wanted Happ and Baez PLUS (assuming) top prospects? Why would they not take MLB talent in addition to prospects from Houston? This is entry level reading comprehension and logic here man.
They would absolutely need Bregman or even Springer (if you want Wilson too) in that deal, in addition those guys listed. They are valuing Fulmer massively, and have every right to.
spartan-i7
Lol chill out, just a suggestion…
I originally had Bregman in place of Reed + Cameron, but figured it wasn’t at realistic for Astros.
Reed was former Top 50 prospect if I recall. Cameron a lottery pick, but was also a fairly high draft pick couple years ago.
A'sfaninUK
AJ Reed is utter trash and has no trade value at all.
spartan-i7
Former #11 Prospect on Baseball America in 2016, and was #72 on their list before the season started. He isn’t doing great right now, but he’s still only 24 and has clearly shown potential. Saying he’s “utter trash and has no trade value” is an idiotic statement.
Plus he’s basically a throw in for my proposed deal, you’re acting like I’m centering the entire deal around him. Same for Cameron, a former consensus Top 100 prospect who is struggling right now but is still only 20.
The package still might not be enough, but its far more realistic than suggesting the Astros could give up George Springer.
atlbraves2010
Spartan-i7 agreed. Why would the Astros make a trade that makes them a worse team?
Saleaway
They have the right to ask for a massive haul for Fulmer. But Springer would be a big reach IMO.
shelteredsoxfan
Yeah that would never happen imo. It’s similar to the white sox originally asking for Betts from the Red Sox in the sale negotiations. That was never gonna happen either
atlbraves2010
Just another Fan, you are utterly dillusional if you honestly believe that the Astro’s would even consider trading Springer. I get that the Tigers would ask for a kings ransom for Fulmer, and rightly so, but what makes you think that the best team in baseball would trade arguably their best player?
Trading Springer for Fulmer would be a move of regression for the Astros.
Honestly, a deal of Bregman, Martes and Cameron probably gets the Tigers to bite.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
If the tigers wanted both Baez and Happ. That results in an immediate dial tone. Trading either one is worse than trading Jimenez. They have impacted the cubs too much to trade them for verlander. That’s an awful trade. Plus they probably asked for Jimenez and Cease on top of that.
Pilzbrydroboy
JAF you act like Fulmer should bring back more then the Chris Sale trade… GTF out of here tiger fan
bravesfan
Gosh Spartan…. i don’t think the tigers should hand over a great pitcher who is only in his 2nd year for a bunch of prospects. 2 of which have shown some serious regression
atlbraves2010
I agree that the Tigers should not do that either, but on what planet is okay to suggest that the best team in baseball trade their best player?
chitown311
Hopefully Quintana can bat leadoff too
chitown311
Listen I’ve seen dozens of videos from
Cubs fans over the past 2 weeks about Eloy hitting “Schwarbombs” off the lights in a minor league stadium, heard about him making the minor league futures team, heard how Cease is the next Syndergaard, and now after this trade all I am hearing is that Eloy is a bat only player, his defense is garbage, and Cease is coming off TJ surgery 2 years ago. Cubs fans are a joke. You gave up A TON to acquire a top of the line, cost controlled MLB starter. That is the price you’re going to pay(#5 and #68 Best prospects in all of baseball). But Like Rick Hahn said, this was far and away the best offer for Quintana in appx 1 year. Looks like Rock Hahn holding out for a better package worked, and it looks like Epstein got desperate to do something after all the fair weather and BANDWAGON Cubs fans were up in arms about their team. Well played Rick Hahn, well played.
A'sfaninUK
Nah, Hahn should have gotten Candelario too. He did okay but I think he could have gotten more from other teams or if he had held out for a couple more weeks.
dudeness88
He definitely got the best deal possible. All season long all we heard was Team A was not going to give up prospect A AND B for him..Cubs were the team that finally took the bill.
CarlosMaysThumb
He has held out since the off season. Quintana is not Sale and what you are suggesting is what they got for Sale. Jimenez has a very high ceiling and a very high floor too. Cease is a bigger gamble, but again a very high ceiling.
gcg15
Just stop with the Cubs fan nonsense. No other fan base understands as well as Cubs fans what the Sox are doing right now. Good for the White Sox. They are turning really good ML players into a hoard of prospects. Some of those prospects are going to pan out awesome. Others won’t. Some will be traded by the White Sox eventually. Many will end up on your big league team. Elroy is a legit top prospect – so were Jorge Soler and Anthony Rizzo (you don’t know and neither do the Cubs which player Elroy will be). Cease is not a top prospect – neither were Neil Ramirez, Justin Grimm and Kyle Hendricks. He could be great, more likely he’ll be serviceable or not pan out.
The Sox are doing a great job of collecting young, cost controlled players who have a chance to be great to decent ML players. It is way more about the process than “winning” any one trade. You gave up a player of clear value today for players with perceived value in the future. And to win at that game you obviously have to make several trades – because not all those prospects are going to be stars.
For perspective – here are guys the Cubs traded for or drafted or signed in their rebuild. You’ll note some trades were really instrumental and a lot were not. The trades of the biggest names did usually reap the best rewards – as it should be.
Drafted or Signed – Javy Baez, Albert Almora, Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Jon Lester, Jorge Soler, Wilson Contreras, John Lackey, Ben Zobrist, Dexter Fowler
Trades –
– Kyung-Min Na and Andrew Cashner to San Diego for Anthony Rizzo and Zach Cates
– Sean Marshall to Cincinnati for Ronald Torreyes, Dave Sappelt, and Travis Wood
– Ryan Dempster to Texas for Christian Villanueva and Kyle Hendricks
– Steve Clevenger and Scott Feldman to Baltimore for Jake Arrieta, Pedro Strop and Cash
– Matt Garza to Texas for Carl Edwards Jr., Justin Grimm, Mike Olt, and Neil Ramirez
– Jeff Samardzjia and Jason Hammel to Oakland for Addison Russell, Billy McKinney, Dan Straily, and Cash
– Zach Godley and Jefferson Mejia to Arizona for Miguel Montero
– Tyler Colvin and D.J. LeMahieu to Colorado for Casey Weathers and Ian Stewart
– Wellington Castillo to Seattle for Yoervis Medina
– Carlos Zambrano to Miami for Chris Volstad
– Carlos Marmol and cash to the Dodgers for Matt Guerrier
– Alfonso Soriano to Yankees for Corey Black
– Aaron Kurcz/Chris Carpenter to Boston for Jair Bogaerts
– Marlon Byrd/Cash to Boston for Michael Bowden and Hunter Cervenka
– Geovany Soto To Texas Rangers for Jake Brigham
– Jeff Baker to Detroit for Marcelo Carreno and cash
– Blake Lalli to Oakland for Anthony Recker
– Tony Campana to Arizona for Jesus Castillo and Erick Leal
– Ian Dickson to Washington for Henry Rodriguez (not that one)
– Darwin Barney to the Dodgers for Jonathan Martinez
– Marco Hernandez to Boston for Felix Dubront
– Jose Arias/Tyler Bremer to Miami for Jacob Turner
– Brian Bogusevic to Miami for Justin Ruggiano
– Ruggiano to Seattle for Matt Brazis
– Mike Kickham to Seattle for Lars Huijer
– Rafael Lopez to Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for Miguel Rondon
– PTBNL to Seattle for Fernando Rodney
– Starlin Castro to NYY for Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan
– Chris Coughlin to Oakand for Aaron Brooks
– Arismendy Alcantara to Oakland for Chris Coughlin
– Rashad Crawford, Billy McKinney, Gleyber Torres and Adam Warren to NYY for Aroldis Chapman.
– Paul Blackburn and Daniel Vogelbach to Seattle Mariners for Jordan Pries and Mike Montgomery.
JKB 2
Chitown is a bitter angry typical hate mongering White Sox fan with Cub envy
gcg15
I presume the two pitchers the Cubs feel had leaped over Cease in their farm system are Alzolay and De La Cruz.
They supposedly don’t have any top line type starters in the system and none of the best arms are about to arrive in the majors, but the farm system has some nice depth in pitching now. Cease was viewed as someone who could end up in the pen. The view on Alzolay is he will be in the rotation and his ceiling is 2/3 type starter. He throws strikes, keeps the ball down and strikes out a lot of hitters. He tore up high A ball and was just promoted to AA where he fanned 10 in his debut. Hatch has also been developing pretty well – bit lower ceiling perhaps. Then there’s Dillon Maples (unreal fastball but a bit wild) and Clifton. The guy everyone talks about as being a possible #1 is Albertos, but he’s not really pitched all that much. Tseng has been really solid at AA and could be a backend type starter. I know Underwood has underwhelmed – perhaps the one disappointment in the group. So while there may be no headliners they do have a lot of solids at AA and below.
rayrayner
Tseng was just promoted to AAA. He’s only 22.
tim815
Hatch is the other one, probably.
TrueOutcomeFan
My guess is Trevor Clifton and Thomas Hatch are the pitchers.
gcg15
I’m all but certain Alzolay is one of the two. The other I’m less clear on. Alzolay has been completely tearing things up this year and was already viewed as being on the upswing.
gcg15
cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-prospect-expert-talks-c…
This guy says Alzolay is the Cub’s best prospect period.
leprechaun
The trade was a win win. Both teams have opposite agendas at the moment. Cubs are in a win now ( 4-5 year window ) White Sox looking to compete starting in 2019. Quintana with Sox now and next year dosent help the tanking plan either. He does help the Cubs also moving on from Arrieta.
Also you Fulmer fans better realize that the only reason he is even available is the Tigers scouts must see something concerning in the future. Teams almost never ever trade a bonafide true number one ace.
Danny37
I’m wondering if the Tigers may be using Fulmer as trade bait because they’re worried about having to chase Cleveland (and to a lesser extent, Minnesota) now and the White Sox in a couple of years? Their farm system isn’t very highly ranked and their ML talent is waning.
giggity212
If they spot a problem the other teams scouts will spot it too, but honestly right now he’s one of the most valuable trade assets in all of baseball
leprechaun
Not sure why that posted 3x sorry about that
terry g
If 3 or 4 of the prospects the Sox’s have acquired so far from all their trades, they’ll have a good core to contend. This trade was what both teams wanted/needed as they go forward. Contenders will always make trades like this to win. Doesn’t seem like there was much of a bidding war, more Hahn knew what he want and stuck to it. Maybe, a win win for both, we’ll see. The Cubs are better now but the rest of the season still has to be played out.
Rickeo02
So yankees wont part with any prospects to get good pitching. Awesome cus hitting wins
up2drew
I am astounded, as a White Sox fan, with the utter lunacy of this trade in terms of business sense. The Cubs are a real and direct competitor of the White Sox for the Chicago entertainment dollar. Events of the past couple of years have made the White Sox a complete non-entity in the city.
One element that everyone seems to overlook in this whole tear-it-down-and-build-your-farm-system concept is that your major league team is, at the end of the day, an entertainment product, a pleasant distraction offered for consumption. And we’re not talking about an inexpensive entertainment offering here – taking your family to a major league baseball game and getting decent seats is a $200 commitment.
I spent much of the last two summers attending Sox games with $3-$6 tickets purchased on the secondary market. The city sees the White Sox as the redheaded stepchild despite a much more family-friendly environment and a far more accessible and confortable facility than the North Siders. And yet the Sox gift-wrap for the Cubs a mid-season boost, a cost-controlled talent that will help sustain this dynamic for years to come.
Please don’t tell me about how some 20-year old in A-ball is going to even this trade up, five years from now (maybe – and I’ve seen Eloy Jimenez play, I spend a portion of my time in Myrtle Beach, fine, whatever). In five years, there may not be a Chicago White Sox, considering what they’re gonna draw.
gcg15
I suspect the ownership knows full well the short term vs. potential long term implications of their actions and thinks about this before making a trade.
And the White Sox have been a non-entity in Chicago for a very long time. Even when they won the World Series the Cubs outdrew them. They are the Clippers to the Cubs Lakers. They are the Mets to the Cubs Yankees. They are the Angels to the Cubs Dodgers. Only, to be frank, that difference is even more stark. You can thank the location of the Bank Rate Field and WGN TV for that phenomena. It’s just a hard fact. And it will not change absent some massive shift in long-term sustained success from the Sox.
shelteredsoxfan
Agree 100%. Some trade isn’t gonna change a trend that has been constant for years. And I really don’t care that the sox are the red headed stepchild because as long as you’re a fan what difference does it really make?
Djones246890
The White Sox are always going to be the red-headed stepchild of Chicago. That’s just the way it is. Not saying it’s right, or fair, but that’s life.
The deal made sense for both teams. There’s absolutely zero reason for these teams to block each other or deliberately avoid deals.
skybluesox
Please. The two teams have two distinct and independent fan bases. The only problem for Chicago teams is the State of Illinois. Just remember more people leave Illinois every year than any other state. That’s a problem for both teams long term.
RunDMC
Reports out of Braves Land is that CHW wanted Ronald Acuna — and considering Coppy devalued Q after missing out on Sale, I never pictured them willing to give up our top prospects to land him, which CHW shouldn’t have even considered in the first place. Glad to see Hahn continuing to pillage farms earning his “Genghis Hahn” nickname (the handle to one creative MLBTR reader).
That being said, though Sonny Gray would be a nice fit for ATL, I’m not sure they value him in the same top tier that would warrant top prospects considering Albies/Acuna should be up within the next year at the ML level (Acuna just promoted to AAA). The search for an ace continues.
atlbraves2010
I was thrilled when the Cubs got Q, if only because that took one of the arms off the market for Coppy to overpay for.
A deal of Acuna, Allard, and Anderson plus another lower level guy may have gotten it done, I would not have been a happy person to see our rebuild efforts go by the wayside for a guy that would not put us over the hump yet.
junkmanj
Yeah, as a Braves fan, I would be super ticked off if they made that trade.
I have to believe that out of the 4 million pitching prospects the Braves have in the minors, one or two of them will turn into an Ace.
After watching the Braves play this year, i understand that it’s kind of hard for the front office to sell off the veterans near the deadline. They play with a lot of passion and even moved Freddie to 3rd. But, I hope they do sell. The Braves will be great for years to come if they stay the course. And I understand they wouldn’t make a trade that isn’t for young, controllable talent. But still, it’s too expensive when you’re in the rebuilding process.
Make the expensive trade when you’re already favorited and then that trade puts you way over the top.
comebacktrail28
I’m a white Sox fan ……. Q will be a great pickup for the Cubs and I can see his #s getting better going to the NL ( last 3 years ranked #7 in starting pitching WAR)
I’ve always been a fan of Trading Prospects for Proven players but this is the route the Sox have taken and this is the Route I will cheer for
Pilzbrydroboy
NO WAY!!! would Theo trade Eloy Jimenez. Jimenez is untouchable! Especially for a number 3 starter like Quintana. LOL (Cubs fans before the trade).
Pilzbrydroboy
SHOUT OUT!!!! To dodgerfan711 for saying Quintana would not bring back one top 50 prospect…..and billy and the yankees fans. How do you like them apples? Ohhhh and Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech and Roberts are all untouchable :p
skybluesox
Some of those Yankees fans love to sling mud and have a lot of time on their hands to post.
madmanTX
1st I’ve heard about the trade. Don’t know the guys involved but I hope that the White Sox robbed the Cubs on this one.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Not a robbery. Good deal for both teams, I think. Sox got an outfielder who should be a star and a high-upside pitcher, while Cubs got a steady innings-eater who’d be the #2 guy on most teams (and #1 on some of them). Win-now move for the Cubs, stockpiling prospects for 2020 for the Sox.
donnniewore23
Agree 100%. I’m just glad The Yanks didn’t overpay for a #3 SP. Q IS NO SALE. Based on this deal, NYY would have had to give up Gleyber/Frazier and Sheffield/Kaprielian plus 2 other 30+ prospects for a very good – but NOT great pitcher with a GREAT contract.
shelteredsoxfan
As a white sox fan who is pulling for the cubs, the Cubs are getting one heck of player in Quintana. Sure he isn’t flashy but he’s a great clubhouse guy and his durability is too notch. He hasn’t missed a start in 5 years. In this day and age of pitcher injuries that is one quality that means a lot
craigscrushers4
I am glad Quintana is gone because I heavily was against him going to Milwaukee
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Milwaukee doesn’t have a single player the white Sox would want.