Two weeks ago, it was reported that while the Tigers were willing to discuss Justin Verlander in trades, they sought a significant prospect return and weren’t inclined to include any financial compensation to offset his sizable contract. Now, MLB.com’s Jon Morosi tweets that the Tigers have softened that stance and are willing to include “some” cash in a theoretical trade to help facilitate a deal. Verlander also has a full no-trade clause, though, so he’d need to green-light any deal the Tigers are interested in making, if such an opportunity even arises.
The 34-year-old Verlander is midway through the fifth season of a back-loaded seven-year, $180MM contract that calls for him to earn $28MM each year from now through 2019. Of this year’s $28MM, about $11.6MM remains, so adding that to the $56MM he’s owed in 2018-19 brings the total bill to just a shade under $68MM. Exactly what constitutes “some” cash for the Tigers isn’t clear, but given their desire to acquire top-shelf prospects, one can only imagine that the Tigers would need to pay off a significant amount of that remaining $68MM.
For all the name value that Verlander brings to the table, his 2017 performance has been underwhelming. His 4.4 BB/9 rate is the worst of his career, and his 8.4 K/9 rate is a notable departure from the 10.0 mark he posted in last year’s brilliant rebound campaign. Verlander’s chase rate, swinging-strike rate and contact rate are all among the worst of his career, and his 38.1 percent hard-contact rate represents a nearly 10 percent increase over his 2016 level. Beyond that, he’s averaging fewer than six innings per start for the first time as a Major Leaguer.
That’s a host of red flags, but to be fair to Verlander, his velocity is as strong as ever (95.1 mph average fastball), and his strikeout and home-run rates are still better than those of a league-average starter. There’s certainly value in the big righty, even if his 4.66 ERA isn’t anything to write home about. Verlander brings a wealth of postseason experience to the table, and given the proximity of last year’s dominance — 227 2/3 innings, 3.04 ERA, 10.0 K/9, 2.3 BB/9 — one can hardly rule out a return to form.
But, this year’s plethora of troublesome indicators will also make teams reluctant to surrender a haul of prospects, even with a chunk of his salary included. FanRag’s Jon Heyman, for instance, recently reported that there’s been little to no serious interest in Verlander to this point given all of the hurdles in the way of a trade. One exec with another AL club told ESPN’s Buster Olney this weekend:Â “If you trade a player with that kind of history, you want something to show for it coming back. I’m not sure they can get that.”
Talk of a Verlander trade probably won’t let up even in the seemingly likely event that he remains with the Tigers beyond July 31, however. That huge financial commitment makes it likely that he’ll clear revocable trade waivers in August, at which point he’ll again be free to be traded to any club (so long as he waives his no-trade clause to approve the deal). And if no deal comes to fruition in August, then his name figures to be frequently mentioned this winter as well.
If the Yankees pick him up they could win the division
The Yankees don’t need an aging starter with a huge contract
Only way is if Elsbury waived his no trade to play in Detroit which won’t happen and then Detroit willing to take Elsbury for Verlander which offsets each other contract a little which also will never happen so no bueno to that idea.
Why do Yankee fans keep thinking anyone wants Ellsbury in any capacity???
It wouldn’t be a one for one trade lol. Obviously there would be more prospects headed to the Tigers, it’s just a way to offset salary.
Why do tiger fans thinks anyone would take verlander without eating more than some of his contract? He is a fading SP with too much doe ray me left on his contract . Some would have to start at half what’s left?
I agree that Tigers would have to pony up a significant amount of $$ to make a deal. However, if a team needs a strong clubhouse presence as well as an above average starting pitcher, he still has much to give a team making a late season playoff run. He’s much better than his stats and just one season off a near Cy Young campaign. Tigers need prospects badly and maybe land another Fulmer type diamond in the rough.
Huge? As in 2 more seasons after this one? Don’t get me wrong, it’s a lot of money, but his contact is no longer huge.
Why would they change their methods now?
Now that’s funny. An aging average pitcher will propel them to division title.
Exactly, that’s all yanks need is 1 starter n their gold….that’s good stuff!!!
Your crazy, the last thing the Yankees need is an old veteran who looks totally lost out there. If the Yankees want to do something they should trade For Yu Darvish. I’d love to see a Darvish-Tanaka 1-2 punch!
I wonder what their definition of “some” is?
I would probably estimate 20-25 million of the remaining 70 million. I can’t imagine they go any higher than 30 though.
All depends on the quality of package they get in return. They’d swallow a much bigger part of the balance if they get top flight talent in return.
Why would anyone give up top talent (I’m assuming a top 50 or two top 100 players) for Verlander, who despite the luster of his name, pitches to the same level as a #3 or #4 pitcher? It’s not like he’s had an illustrious post-season career. He’s under-performing on a superstar contract.
I’m not saying an Ells for Verlander would make sense for the Tigers but I also don’t think a team should take on all of Verlander’s contract AND a 2017 top top 75-100 prospect.
Pffffft. Whichever team (if any) gives up significant prospects AND still has to pay majority of his salary, has the wrong GM running their team
Bingo!
Kevin Towers and Dave Stewart are really wishing they were running a team at the moment.
I still think it would be foolish to trade Verlander. This guy is the face of the Tigers. Suck it up; pay him. If you don’t believe he can turn it around, why would any trade partner?
Why wouldn’t another club believe he could turn it around? He was good just as soon as last year. If DET offset that massive contract and made it more enticing, that’s a better prospect haul and less DET has on the books. No, a couple million isn’t going to make that much difference, but I think it’d be the crack in the dam that would be something of a rebuild.
so, keep a guy who will not be productive when the team is good again instead of cashing him in for some prospects who will be good whenever the team is good again?
why? because of the feels?
they aren’t trying to trade him because they think he’s not good. They are trying to trade him because the team is not good and he is being wasted. It is much better to turn him into younger players then to hold on to him in his last few productive years.
I’m thinking back to when the Tigers has Verlander, Scherzer, and Price and didn’t win the world series. Hard to believe.
sanchez was the era champ the year before too
…. and Porcello.
I.E Cubs didn’t bite and got Quintana instead. Doesn’t pay to fool with Theo.
Don’t rule out Verlander as the Cubs 5th starter in August.
If on Theo’s terms.
Evidently the Cubs are acquiring every pitcher on the market.
JV for Panda and a really good prospect would have worked. Too late.
New Blockbuster “Three Justin” idea:
How about Justin Verlander and Justin Upton and Justin Wilson and $20MM for 2 Top 100, 2 other prospects and a player to be named dealer (PTBNL)?
Upton has a opt out clause at the end of the year. The PTBNL can be Upton himself. He goes right back to Tigers if he does NOT opt in.
Upton as a rental should command almost as much JD Martinez.
1. That trade is illegal with the new CBA
2. No team wants all 3 of them(they need to be swapped separately if J-Up and JV can even be traded.
3. why the hell would the tigers want Panda?? It makes more sense to just pay JV than take on a salary dump..
1. Why? It is part of the Opt In/Out risk mitigation. Also a 3rd team can get involved if needed.
2. They need to be packaged together to offset JV’s salary. Third team could be involved.
3. Just to offset the money so they save about $20MM that way.
Should read… “does NOT opt OUT” not in.
Who will he waive his NTC for ? Phillies could use him, and wouldn’t require as much cash as say the Orioles, who also desperately need a #1 , but who can’t afford him in prospects . Does no good to speculate though if he wont waive it..
Phillies could solve Tiger issues at a number of positions with young controllable players.
its rumored that he’d waive it for LAD…other than that its pretty murky
I’m sure only clubs where his play outlook improves.
yanks, cause of Kate upton
Thought of that myself. Kate probably has some “say” in where he goes.
Is Kate calling Brian Cashman?
The only way I’d be cool with Klentak taking him is if the Tigers added a prospect to the deal and we gave up next to nothing.
Why would the Phillies, the worst team in baseball, who are currently rebuilding WITH young players but are far from competing want to trade for Verlander? Why would they want to acquire ANY player that might help them LOSE the #1 overall pick? The Phillies should have ZERO need for Verlander right now. That should and would get the GM fired.
I can see Braves getting Verlander if Tigers eat some cash but no to Ozzie and Acuna
Kevin Maitan and a top 100 pitching prospect would work I would think…if braves wish to contend they need an experienced playoff ace which JV is and the only one on the market. He can help them now and the next 2 years…of course tigers would have to eat salary.
Maitan is their highest upside guy. He’s been called Miguel Cabrera 2.0, I’d say no way to him going anywhere. But I could see Albies in a package.
If they’re giving the Tigers the guy they just gave a $4.25m bonus to at 16 which restricted them in int’l signings, it better be for Fulmer.
Not to diss the Braves (who have a bright future), but would JV make a lot of sense for them right now, given where the club is in its rebuild? I know they’re at .500, but they don’t seem to be one or two key acquisitions away just yet. And while I think JV has good seasons left in him, he’s still an aging veteran risk. If his current season actually is the start of a decline, how well positioned is ATL to absorb his performance/salary and the prospects it’d lose (depending on the structure of such a trade)?
Braves could be good in 2019.
That sounds realistic, which wouldn’t make acquiring JV now the best timing or fit. Seems smarter to stay the course, keep developing internally, and get a firmer idea of long-term expectations for guys like Matian, Anderson, and Fried, as well as the stock of talent at AA/AAA.
why? braves window is 2018-2022. verlander’s window of usefulness is probably just this year and maybe next. makes no sense.
Nats pick him up. Mike maddux can help him. Get Wilson to and WOrld series ring here we come
Nationals have nothing to trade other than Robles and the Tigers would want more than him in a trade for Verlander and Wilson.
Fedde? Soto? Kieboom? The cupboard’s not as full as it was a year ago, but it’s not that barren.
Verlander and some cash to the Dodgers for a PTBN!!!! He would accept the trade. If he helps the Dodgers, the Tigers get package A, if not package B.
PTBNL is illegal under the new CBA probably because of ppl like you. The risk with a trade is the players might not always be successful with their new team…same with all 4 major sports buddy.
Although I agree with you that it should be made illegal for reasons that you stated regarding Tim Fries’s scenario, I don’t remember hearing about it being made illegal in the new CBA and I just Googled the new CBA and read all sorts of articles about all the changes that were made, none of which mentioned the PTBNL being made illegal.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but do you have a source?
It hasn’t.
You are wrong. A a PTBNL is still legal as long as it is not a player on a 25 man roster, in exchange for International Bonus Pool Money, or as long as the PTBNL wasn’t selected in the MLB First-Year Player Draft of that year. Although a draftee can be a PTBNL at the conclusion of the World Series.
Thank you.
How much does he have to help. If he has a 5 ERA, but then wins games 3 and 7 of the WS, does that count?
Dodgers don’t need another back-end starter. They’ve already got Maeda and Ryu, both of whom have pitched better than Verlander this year.
You Verlander apologists seem to forget that it’s 2017, not 2011. Yes, JV had a good 2016, but he was in decline prior to that, just as he is now.
Could he help some team down the stretch? Sure. But I doubt the Tigers will kick in enough dough for another team to take a chance.
a good 2017? He should have won the cy young!!!! The man dominated and went deep in tons of games, which is his most under-rated qualities
Yes, and he’s been actual trash in 2017.
So please tell me why a team should even pay 60% of the money owed, along with even second-tier prospects to get a pitcher who “should have won the Cy Young in 2016” but has been a mess this year? It’s not like 2014-2015 where also Cy Young=quality, either.
he was playing through injuries in 2014-2015. it’s been well documented. The only thing that hasn’t been there has been his control, but that is likely due to an also documented increase in velocity this year. Plus, verlander has been known for making in-season adjustments.
Well since a pitcher without control isn’t a pitcher at all, control should probably not be an “only” thing but the “main” thing.
So here it is, mid-July and the reason why Verlander hasn’t already made one of his legendary in-season adjustments, is _____?
Not biased towards JV in any way, but it still irks me how he lost the Cy Young to Porcello because of the way TB’s BBWAA voters determined their ballots. It’d be a shame if, ~10 years from now, winning that second Cy Young would’ve been the little nudge JV needed to sway his potential HOF candidacy.
@BlueskyLA Professional baseball isn’t easy. Adjustments take time for every player. It’s rarely an overnight process, especially with pitchers. As every athlete knows, it takes time to get the muscle memory down. Furthermore, pitchers have a shorter sample size to work on and show improvements. As an example, jv has a 2.25 era and nearly has a 9k/9 ratio over the last two weeks, but it will take time to see if more adjustments need to be made or not.
We all know it isn’t easy, but that wasn’t my question. If was still April or May, and we weren’t talking about a veteran, I would see your point. But it isn’t and we are, so the question remains — as it will for any team considering him.
@Bluesky “So here it is, mid-July and the reason why Verlander hasn’t already made one of his legendary in-season adjustments, is _____?”
you literally asked why he hasn’t made an adjustment yet. As i said, it takes time to a) realize you need to make an adjustment, b) figure how out how to change mechanically, and c) get your muscles to remember the new mechanics… and as i also pointed out, pitchers have limited starts to work on all of this.
Asking why he didn’t make the adjustment in April shows a lack of understanding on how long mechanical adjustments take.
However, all of this being said, like lester and quintana, jv’s era has been blown up by 3 starts. All great pitchers have bad starts, but with pitchers, they are magnified in their stats because they do not play every day. Lastly, if you look at the last two weeks, jv has a 2.25 era and nearly has a 9k/9 ratio over. One could argue he already has made the necessary adjustments.
Yet, means April, May, or June. In July, we will see. This does not represent any lack of understanding, it is merely a perfectly reasonable question about why someone who is so experienced is spending so much time trying to figure it out. This should not be anything new to him. And they have pitching coaches in Detroit, do they not?
Yes, I know his last two starts have been better, but that is a total of 12 innings out of over 100 he’s pitched this season. Bad games and good, they all count the same. Maybe the trend is positive, but it is not entirely clear, and for a contender, it has to be as definitive as can be.
All that said, from my sniffing of the wind, I smell a blockbuster trade involving Verlander, Wilson, and Martinez. The Dodgers might be willing to take on Verlander and his big contract without a significant pay down if they get the other two in the deal. I can see them giving up a top prospect, and one or two of the likes of Stewart, Stripling, and Hernandez.
Verlander, Miggy, Upton, and Zimmerman will be making $105mm ON THIER OWN each year for the next 2 years. Not to mention Miggy is signed until 2024 and Upton 2021. This team needs a fire sale TODAY, eat ALL SALARIES, and hope for a good prospect for each of those players if they want to even begin about contending by 2022.
Or they can contend NEXT YEAR if 3 of 4 are productive in 2018 and they get 4 good prospects.
Hahahahahahahaha. Yeah sure they will!
Mocking the Tigers may not make sense for a White Sox Fan.
I’d rather be a Sox fan than a Tigers fan these days. They at least have something positive to look forward to with their franchise
A bunch of unproven prospects. If you’re fielding that team in an all hypothetical league well then yea.
Yes, White Sox win most improved farm system. Not that difficult when you dump. Hasn’t helped in the W column so far, but we will continue to watch.
But where are the going to get them?
People never seem to get how baseball works. Teams and players that have a bad year or two and be expected to stink. Look at the Brewers and Twins, they were bad last year and didn’t make a lot of high profile additions this offseason so of course they would stink this year. And yet they are both good. Any team can have a good year, and it is presumably way more likely with a lot of talent on your roster like this Tigers team has.
except the Brewers and twins are turning around with young players growing into productive years. Not a bunch of old farts who are declining which is what the Tigers have.
the stuff isn’t rocket science. It’s not random
stars and scrubs pretty much never work. Especially when those stars are all in their thirties.
this team is a lot like the Phillies from about a decade ago
It’s not that easy
more like you want them to go on a firesale
The writing is on the wall with this team. They are old and getting older, overpaid and even more overpaid in next few years. But if you think they’re “that close to contending” that is your prerogative. Stop being a homer and look at the big picture. The tigers went from “we want top prospects and you will pay his salary” and after all GMs stopped laughing they now say “ok well pay SOME of his salary”. Wait a week and they’ll pay 75% of his contract and demand a mid-level prospect to get his dead arm and multi-million dollar salary off he books
i am not arguing that they are going to seriously contend, but i don’t think a fire sale is the way to go at this time. And i seriously doubt avila changed his strategy after a week. Just sounds like different reports to me.
Dead arm? hahaha. He still throws 100 mph. I didnt realize Chicago people are this stupid. Way to represent!
Really? A dead arm? What a troll you are.
JV and Miggy are like a Disney Characters in the Magic Kingdom. They probably offset 1/2 of his salaries as a human tourist attractions. Tigers need to factor that in.
great point. they’re both HoF players. That definitely drags more people to the stadium.
there are zero studies and zero evidence that shows that star players draw attendance on bad teams. Bottom line is people do not go to games when their team sucks
Exactly- just ask Giancarlo Stanton how many season tix he’s sold. Winning crates attendance .. not individual stars
100% sure that Miggy and JV sell tickets.
thats doubtful. they may sell jerseys and bobbleheads, but they’re not selling tickets anymore
giancarlo isn’t a hall of famer.
People from out of town come to Detroit to see JV and Miggy.
Philly has the Liberty Bell.
Boston has the Tea Party Boat.
San Fran has the Bridge.
Detroit has Miggy and JV.
Then why do people go to watch the Angels?
Marlins didn’t draw fans when they won WS. Not a great example.
Your post has Arte Moreno’s ears ringing with $$$
The backpedal begins.
How many teams would pay the entire freight in 2018 as the main trade component? Which would really benefit Detroit.
IMO, Unless the Tigers eat most of his $$ and accept a modest return, a team would currently be taking on entirely to much LT risk w/ Verlander. I believe most of this Verlander noise we continue to hear is coming from Al Avila and the Tiger’s side. I don’t see anybody trading for Verlander this season, maybe at the 2018 deadline. I expect the Tigers will continue to desperately try to move him and their other salary anchors going forward.
Eat most of his salary and accept a modesty return is never going to happen. They will never desperately try to move him.
Never is a long time.
I’d hate it, but could Atlanta get him for Albies and a few others?
They should be able to get him with just salary relief and a top 10 team prospect or two.
why would they?
No way the Braves should have to give up Albies in a package for just Verlander unless the Tigers were paying quite a substantial bit of his salary still. The Braves have enough high end prospects that I’m sure they could work something out if they so desired.
What would the braves have to give up for fulmer?
Probably starts with Acuna and Allard.
Their top 4-5 prospects
Acuna, Allard, Pache and Wilson might do it.
If Acuna is in the deal, hang the phone up.
He is off limits
Great GMs NEVER hang up. You always counter offer. You never know if the other side will be crazy enough to say yes.
Start with Albies and Swanson and keep going.
Tigers should be ready to pay a big chunk of that contract in exchange for a legit prospect package. The plan is to rebuild, so a simple salary dump doesn’t really help with that. They’re not going to sign a major FA in the next 3 years, so payroll relief does little for you. Pay the toll, and get the prospects.
A salary dump helps regarding penalties for going over the salary cap,. If those sanctions are enough for DET to swallow much of the rest of the deal, they can be in better shape in 2018.
Or else, they aren’t in better financial shape in 2018.
but if the Tigers aren’t planning on signing a major FA in the next 3 years, then you would presume that payroll would be decreasing over that time.
They still owe Miggy, 30, JV 28, Upton over 22, Zimmerman 24, VMart 18, Sanchez 5 (optout) Kinsler 5 (optout), and Fielder 6 next year. That 138 with the cap around 200.
If getting under the cap in 201`8 is important (Don’t know if it is), I doubt the rest of the roster will be less than 62..
They are already looking at a sizeable decrease at the end of this year. No k-rod, lowe, pelfry, 10m less to pay sanchez, and no jd. Tigers can handle a 150-160m payroll for a year. They are a large market team, and have had recent payrolls close to 200m. even more big money comes off the year after.
Already at 138 for 2018 with 7 guys, one of whom is retired.
and they will have 34m coming off the books after that year. (5m sanchez, 18m victor, 11m kinsler- assuming he hasnt been traded)
It depends if they want under the cap in 2018.. No idea if that’s a priority.
they already will be under the cap in 2018….
the tigers will be under the luxury tax easily after this season. they have 42 million coming off the books at seasons end
Just pay the man, he’ll be you one marketable player during the next rebuild, should have shipped him on the off-season now he’s like cliff Lee when the Phillies held on too long
I’m old fashioned–I’m hoping a deal isn’t made. Verlander should finish out his career with the Tigers, not run the risk of being expensive deadweight on someone else’s roster. There’s no logical trade to be made that respects the player but at the same time accurately values him. Big market teams don’t need the possible luxury tax implications and mid-markets can’t afford him without a massive Detroit subsidy.
Except, one option makes all the sense in the world. If the Tigers value getting under the cap in 2018 like Steinbrenner valued winning.
They will already be under because of expiring contracts
He’s not listening. Let him believe what he wants.
yep, gotta say the owner tried…..it didn’t work out, but dang it…..he tried!!!
All depends on how much the Tigers pick up will be who I am willing to see the Braves trade. $8 million a year they can have Newcomb.
Are you suggesting the Tigers give Verlander + 8M per year, and they can have Newcomb?
” I’d like to shorten my window of competitiveness” said no smart GM ever
theo did exactly that when he traded 7 years of jimenez for 3 and a half years of quintana
They are not getting Newcomb
I want JV more than anyone, but no one is touching Newk. No one.
Al Avila is finally budging appropriately. I’m not a fan of his approach. He doesn’t have elite players beyond JD Martinez (that’s my opinion). Brian Cashman had elites in Aroldis Chapman and Andrew Miller last year when he set high asking prices.
I always see all of these reports on how there’s not much interest in Verlander or something like this, and I just feel like it’s stating the obvious. He’s a high velocity pitcher who’s getting up there in age and has a HUGE contract. I don’t see how the Tigers are going to move him unless they eat 75% of the contract, and even then- the most they get back is a back-end top 20 org guy.
I just don’t see much of a market for him. Their best chance at moving him is if Dave Stewart becomes the new GM of the Marlins.
As the story indicates, Detroit knows they have to eat a big part of his big contract if they will have any hope of moving him. So the contract is an issue mainly for the Tigers, not so much for another team. The problem is not many contenders are going to have much use for a reclamation case, and for all the talk about how good he was once and could be again, contenders need him to be good now. So that narrows the market, by a lot.
If they want to move him they should wait and hope he finishes this year strong or pitches better next year. At this point they’re not going to get anything of value back and they’re going to have to eat a chunk of the contract anyways. Seems like they’d be selling low.
I’d love to know the definition of “some” cash. $100? A million?
JV will be a Brave by the end of the month
Why? They’re not contenders.
No one knows that yet, we’re playing decent ball right now and we’re inching closer to the WC. But that’s not why we need him. We need him for 2018 and to bridge the gap for our young arms. Who knows what he could teach them too. We will probably see the post season next year, and we need a guy who has experience. JV is a ace and I’m confident he will at least be half as good as he was. Having that on our staff, makes a big difference.
Such a joke! Most of the people writing JV off haven’t seen him pitch a game this year. He wasn’t just good last year, he should have won the CY. He’s struggled with his command in a few games and got lit up a couple of time by the Indians, so what! He’s not 40 and hanging on with a knuckle ball. If the Tigers give enough cash, teams should be lining up for him.
Correct. JV beat Porcello in EVERY category last year except Wins and East Coast Jersey. TWO Tampa writers left him off the ballot completely. That is why he lost the Cy Young. No other reason.
The main concern this year is his difficulty getting past the 6th inning. As a Tiger fan, even I find that worrisome.
Verlander is still realy, really good. He still throws 100mph and his secondary offerings are still top notch. Sometimes numbers dint tell the to tory and that’s the case here. Just look at Quintanas numbers with the White Sox and then look at his first start with the Cubbies. Any team looking to go to the post season will be getting a very good pitcher and one that has played in big games and done very well in them. Honestly, yankees, dodgers, red sox, astros, rockies, cubs, are some teams that could use him. He’s still really good
Kate Upton loves Malibu
Detroit would be foolish to eat even a dime on that contract. Verlander is still one of the best in baseball and whoever wants him will have to pay heavily in both prospects and cash to get JV. In fact they ought to have to pay cash on the side to get Verlander.
I agree he is still really good. Like Ace level good. However, the Tigers are retooling the roster a little and thats why it could make sense. However, as the article states, Tigers have to land a top pitching prospect and likely more for him to be on the move. For that to happen I am sure theyll have to cover 2/5ths of the deal which would put Verlanders contract at about 18 million per for the next 2 years after this one. But to cover the money you gotta get some good prospects. If I could get a 2 top 100 prospects for Verlander I might eat 50%
Interesting how Verlander can still be really good even though his numbers all say pretty bad.
Like Quintanas as a White Sock this year? Then goes to Cubs and dominates? The Tigers team came out deflated this season and it seems the team threw the towel in from day 1. That weighs on a player. For some reason they thought they had no chance to make the playoffs and gave up without trying. The last 2 games against the Blue Jays was about the only time this whole season I saw FULL EFFORT from this club. And they won the series. With players in the clubhouse and that type of mindset it weighs on a player and they sometimes just go through the motions. If you dont believe it, youre clueless.
What is crazy is the whole team is underperfoming but theyre still only 6 games out of 1st in the Central. Even if they trade obvious trade candidates on their roster they could win the Central if Miggy, Vmart, Kinsler all perform at their career numbers or even slightly below.
Ah, I see. You’re saying Verlander is the kind of player who throws in the towel when his club isn’t doing well.
Am I clue-full now?
He should have won the cy young award last year.. didn’t u get the memo?
I said it wears on a player. And no, im not saying he throws in the towel hahaha. his numbers dont reflect how good he still is. End of story
Quintana had been dominating for the last month and a half before being traded to the Cubs…
I will take that to mean the same thing, because it does.
Not really the end of the story, no matter what you say.
Idiot
I’ll take him in Seattle, he’s always pitched well when in town. We’ll have money coming off the books next year in Iwakuma and Smyly. Even though I don’t like it, Neidert-O’Neill-Povse should do it. I believe O’Neill is blocked, Neidert is a starter in return(don’t want to trade), and Povse can be used as starter or reliever.
So a players capabilities can only be judged by his statistics? Wow! Look no further than Zack Greinke. Using your insight, Greinke was a washed up old has been because Last year he had an ERA over 4 and the fact that he is only a year younger than Verlander must mean he’s old and worthless. Actually watch Verlander pitch and maybe you will have a different opinion.
Exactly. Any real baseball scout would know Verlander is still a very good pitcher
Maybe you will remember all the talk about the D’backs possibly trading Grienke last winter. The conclusion was the same. After a down year his market value was greatly reduced to the point where no team would seriously consider it, even at a huge discount, until he proved himself again. Nobody (not me anyway) is saying that Verlander can’t do that too, but the fact that he is experiencing a down year (and not just by a little, no matter what you claim) will not only have a negative impact on his market value, it will greatly reduce his attractiveness to any team that is looking for a top-rotation arm in the middle of a pennant race. The best market for him right now is a team on the margins of a wildcard race.
Don’t trade him buy him out next year. So he can go to a winning team. For a lot less. And probably one year deal with alot of incentives.
That makes very little sense. Actually, it makes no sense.
It does if you know that he’s a Cubs fan. He’d like for Verlander to go to a winner (aka the Cubs) without them having to give anything up.
This isn’t the NBA. Player’s aren’t aloud to accept less money than stated in their contract. Verlander can’t say to the Tigers “give me half of my contract and release me”.
Padres turned a similar deal with James Shields into Fernando Tatis Jr.
just saying
Tatis was basically an unknown at the time of the trade… He was 17 years old and had just signed with the White Sox the previous year for like $700k. He was barely a top 30 international prospect in his signing period, and I don’t think he ever played a game with the White Sox organization. He was basically a lottery ticket. His value has risen significantly post-trade.
That example doesn’t help Verlander’s trade value at all.
Dodgers will be involved here. Good velocity with cash included in the deal.
Verlander and 43 million to Pittsburgh for Oddy Nunez and Gage Hinsz.
Pirates pay him 5 million in 17, and 10 million in 18 and 19.
Detroit gets 25 million off the books, and a couple of lottery tickets.