In a stunning development, the Cubs have acquired lefty Jose Quintana from the crosstown rival White Sox, per club announcements. Top prospects Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease are going in return, with first baseman Matt Rose and infielder Bryant Flete also included in the package.
On its face, the deal is rather a straightforward one: The defending champion Cubs needed starting pitching, with a controllable arm making obvious sense. And the White Sox have marketed Quintana since last fall, holding out for a big prospect return.
But that hardly accounts for the true drama inherent in this transaction. There has been chatter of late as to whether the two Chicago stalwarts would do business with each other; clearly, any such questions have been answered.
The scuffling Cubs have said the main focus is on internal improvements, but have now acted forcefully in advance of the deadline. As for the White Sox, they now possess a bevy of elite prospects after swinging yet another significant trade. And those wondering about Quintana’s trade value now have their answer as well.
This time last year, the Cubs were lining up another deal that sent out an elite prospect (Gleyber Torres, in the Aroldis Chapman deal) in hopes of spurring a World Series run. This time, though, the piece coming back isn’t a rental. Quintana is just 28 years old and will remain under the Cubs’ control through 2020. His extension includes a $8.85MM guarantee for 2018 and successive options ($10.5MM and $11MM, respectively) for the ensuing two years. In addition to bolstering the Cubs’ staff now, Quintana will also help cover the organization as starters Jake Arrieta, John Lackey, and Brett Anderson reach free agency after the season.
Quintana has not been quite at his best in 2017, with a 4.49 ERA over 104 1/3 innings thus far. But most indicators suggest he has mostly been his usual self, and his recent good form helps support that view. Quintana owns a 15.5% K%-BB% mark on the year, just as he has in recent years while consistently posting low-3 ERAs. And he has racked up 45 strikeouts with a 2.70 ERA over his last forty innings.
The deeper history is yet more promising, of course. Since landing with the South Siders as an utterly unheralded free agent, he has done nothing but produce results. Quintana carried a 3.41 lifetime ERA entering the 2017 season and has not missed a start over the past five seasons. With the contract control baked in, Dave Cameron of Fangraphs just ranked Quintana the 42nd most valuable trade asset in the game.
Understandably, then, the Cubs paid a hefty price to draw the southpaw up town. Jimenez, clearly, is the headliner. A consensus top-ten prospect leaguewide, the twenty-year-old corner outfielder is viewed as a future middle-of-the-order bat. He has impressed thus far in his first attempt at the High-A level, posting a .271/.351/.490 batting line with eight home runs over 174 plate appearances.
The package doesn’t end there, though. Cease is also generally valued as one of the game’s hundred best pre-MLB players, making him arguably the Cubs’ second-best overall prospect and most promising young hurler. While he’s seen as something of a risky asset, given his injury history and relative lack of polish, Cease is tabbed with top-line upside. He carries a 2.79 ERA with 12.9 K/9 against 4.5 BB/9 at the Class A level.
Rose and Flete aren’t without their interest, either, though neither registers as a significant prospect at this stage. The former is a corner infielder who has slashed .227/.281/.481 with 14 long balls through 254 plate appearances this year as a teammate of Jimenez at Myrtle Beach. The 24-year-old Flete has also played there, putting up the best season (.305/.355/.425) thus far in his minors career while playing all over the diamond (including at shortstop).
The move leaves quite a few other teams still looking for controllable starters, with one key asset now off the market. Sonny Gray of the Athletics is perhaps the clearest alternative trade candidate, while quality arms such as Gerrit Cole, Michael Fulmer, and Chris Archer do not appear to be as readily available. Organizations such as the Yankees, Brewers, Twins, and Astros will be looking hard at those and other possibilities over the next two-and-a-half weeks. Today’s big intra-city swap sets an important market marker for those talks.
GoRockies
Wow!!!
Cubguy13
My thoughts exactly!
Mattimeo09
Good to see the White Sox get a fair deal for Quintana. He’s been great and now the White Sox could be in a great position later on.
Cubs also get exactly what they need right now and this could very well spark a turnaround for the team. Making this move over the All-star break is genius.
Polymath
Just how stacked is the ChiSox farm system? The best in MLB? Could trading Frazier, Melky, Garcia, Robertson make it deeper still? WS in 2012?
Polymath
2021
Pilzbrydroboy
I wonder if the Nationals could have traded Robles, Fedde and Kieboom or soto to the whitesox for Quintana and Robertson
Eileenyy9
double Wow!!
frontdeskmike
You can’t triple stamp a double stamp! You can’t triple stamp a double stamp! Lloyd! Lloyd! You can’t triple stamp a double stamp!
The Lou
Still my favorite movie of all time. Well said!
the.sophisticant
triple wow…cubs got a great dealio
dodgerfan711
This impacts the cubs in the future more than now. Hard to say this makes them compete with the NL field this season.
Pilzbrydroboy
SHOUT OUT!!!! To dodgerfan711 for saying Quintana would not bring back one top 50 prospect…..and billy and the yankees fans. How do you like them apples? Ohhhh and Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech and Roberts are all untouchable :p
Pilzbrydroboy
NO WAY!!! would Theo trade Eloy Jimenez. Jimenez is untouchable! Especially for a number 3 starter like Quintana. LOL (Cubs fans before the trade).
Pilzbrydroboy
Good trade for both teams. Cubs get a solid pitcher under control. As for my Sox. Luv it. IMO it’s a better trade then…. Getting Frazier,Mateo and Adams. From the Yankees. Mateo may be a better prospect then Cease but Eloy Jimenez is a way better Prospect then Frazier. But only time will tell.
unsaturatedmatz
Huge return! Cubs farm system is now depleted!
Caseys Partner
Just stupid.
Another 108 year wait. Start the clock.
rbisingle
Lol the Cubs are still an amazing team and have Quintana for two years after 2016. They’ll be fine.
johnnyg83
three years after this year.
A'sfaninUK
Exactly, prospects don’t win titles, MLB players do.
SeanCasey21
You and I have different definitions of amazing lol
fstop13
The Cubs won with some “prospects”
Caseys Partner
Quintana is the most overrated starting pitcher in my memory and the Cubs don’t need him, their problem is their lineup.
Cubguy13
Good call. I’m sure if you said a few years ago that the Cubs shouldn’t care about Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, Hendricks, Contreras, etc. and instead should get Pablo Sandoval, R.A. Dickey, J.D Drew, and Brett Gardner cuz they are MLB players, I’ll bet the Cubs don’t win the W.S and their future looks very bad…Prospects definitely matter
IRAwillsetthemfree
Ans all their best players still have 2+ years of team controle, they will win more ws in that time
Djones246890
Their lineup isn’t hitting because they know that they have to score d @ mn near 5 runs, in order to win almost every game, day-in and day-out.
That gets discouraging and demoralizing. They need to have faith in their pitcher. This boosts their confidence. I say this as someone who played.
One more solid starter, and they’re right back on track. You watch, the hitting will now start to pick up.
hiflew
Yeah if you said a few years before that that it was good that they held onto Brett Jackson, Josh Vitters, Hayden Simpson, Ryan Harvey, and Felix Pie instead of turning them into viable major league talent also. If you can cherry pick, so can I.
Caseys Partner
“That gets discouraging and demoralizing. They need to have faith in their pitcher. This boosts their confidence. I say this as someone who played.”
This is exactly backwards. Lineups typically get lazy as you load up the rotation and pen with stoppers.
The best thing that happened to the Nats is their pitching problems. That lineup wants the umpire to call the game as soon as the Nats have five runs and the lead.
Lazy breeds lazy.
twinnb15
All this did was keep the Cubs exactly where they are. And it’s hurting their future. I think that was a dumb trade on the Cubs part. Even if the guy is controllable for x amount of years. His performance this year has only been mediocre . And that fits perfectly with the cubs. Mediocre
Ry.the.Stunner
@Casey’s Partner – he’s overrated to you because you still look at W/L record as a determining factor in a pitcher’s value.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They have him for 3 and a half years. Lester, Arrieta, Hendricks now Quintana thats scary in the playoffs. Yes I know jake isn’t himself. But he’ll be just fine.
Caseys Partner
“you still look at W/L record as a determining factor in a pitcher’s value.”
No I don’t.
Try again.
Cubguy13
Yeah not all prospects work out. I think that’s obvious. Just like when the Cubs went all in in 2007/2008 and signed a ton of MLB talent and got nothing but 2 division titles and then stuck with these lengthy contracts that were hard to move cuz of course MLB players with a good track record come with a much heftier price and commitment then a top prospect who may in fact put up similar numbers for next to nothing. You can make the argument either way but in the end, most of the top MLB players today were once prospects
tharrie0820
Lol no. The starting pitching has been dreadful this year
dewssox79
lester is aging, arrieta is regressing, Quintana is not going to scare the opposition. you also still need to hit
ckgjr30
All of those prospects you’ve named are now in the MLB, you don’t need to continue to replenish prospects once they become established MLB players. Prospects matter but, our prospects that you listed have been working out pretty nicely, it’s time to move on to acquire pitching to match those young players, All of our position players are under 30 years old except Zobrist and Jay, I think we’ll be fine with this trade.
hiflew
The problem with the logic of your last sentence is that while it is technically true, it is misleading. Yes, all top MLB players were once prospects, but not all prospects become MLB players. The key is guessing correctly (and yes it is just a guess, albeit an educated one) which prospects to keep and which to trade away.
billysbballz
Lol, you hit the nail on the head!
ckgjr30
So, which prospects, aside from Russell and Schwarber would you say are not producing. I get your logic, not all prospects pan out and it’s hard to judge based on last year who will falter and who will pan out. However, Russell struggled in the first half last year then was an RBI machine in the second half. The Cubs as a whole are not performing to their ability but, I’m not writing off all these players who played like World Series Champions last year because of a down year or a WS hangover if you will.
strike4
Felix Pie…forgot all about that dude. Thanks for the chuckle
oldleftylong
Prospects are trading chips. Quintana is a proven player. That said, the Cubs need more than just another starting pitcher.
gcg15
Are you seriously worried about the Cubs’ “lineup” more than their pitching? Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Contreras, Happ, etc. are all tied to team controlled contracts for the foreseeable future. They just traded a great 21 year old prospect and a good 20 year old pitcher with a history of injuries for a guy they can slide firmly into their rotation for the next 3.5 years.
This on a team that is going to lose two starters and their closer to FA next year.
Where would you propose they find a comparable pitcher to put in their rotation over the next 3.5 years and at what price? Free agency? Here are the top 4 Free Agent pitchers available next year as of May per this very web site – Jake Arrieta (he’s going to leave the Cubs), Darvish (injury history), Cueto and Tanaka. You could look at Pineda I guess. But again, at what cost in Free Agency? – A: More than they’ll have to pay Quintana. That has value.
JKB 2
Problem is not the lineup. Its the 4.66 starting rotation ERA. Did you notice the two blowouts against the Cubs last week?
Zca
Coming to the NL his Era will get better
A'sfaninUK
They won with MLB players. Do you not understand that minor league players do not play in MLB?
A'sfaninUK
They dont matter in a playoff race to MLB front office personnel – you know, the people who know more than you?
antonio bananas
“prospects dont win titles”
so dumb. how do you think the Cubs won?
antonio bananas
in no universe are any of those prospects comparable to bryant/rizzo/schwarber/Russell/etc as prospects.
antonio bananas
not all free agents work out. follow the top 15 free agent signings and the top 15 prospects.
the prospects out perfoem the free agents and at 1/30th the cost
antonio bananas
“you dont need to replenish your prospects”
lol okay. howd that work out in philly vs Boston (who replenished)?
GareBear
Bottom line is that teams need both young talent and vets. Why do people think that it has to be one or the other?
cxcx
He was not the first to cherry pick, it was the troll who always bashes prospects who all normal people recognize as being important to organizations beyond just their trade value.
iceman35pilot
The 2016 stats prove your opinion blatantly false.
The Cubs led the league in team ERA, and scored the 3rd most runs.
iceman35pilot
What was Jake Arrietas performance 3 years before he won the Cy Young with the Cubs?
NellieFox
No way the Cubs win without Chapman, Lester, Fowler, and Zobrist … all veteran additions
JKB 2
My fear is Arrieta IS being himself now
JKB 2
Yes and you still need to pitch
davidcoonce74
This is legitimately the most bizarre argument I’ve ever read, and I’ve read some real doozies.
dwhitt3
Would’ve been scary last year… regression has taken place and it’s not as scary as it sounds by names
Eileenyy9
haaaaa good one..
this is a stunner
gcg15
Quit being thick. Quintana over the past 4 years has posted the 7th best WAR of any starting pitcher in the game. He’s under a reasonable team controlled contract through 2020. He eats a ton of innings. And he does it with solid stats. Every single one of those things helps dictate the market price for him. And do not under estimate the contract terms when thinking value.
What would the Cubs have to pay in free agency for a comparable player? How does that impact their ability to further build out the roster over the next 2-3 years when they are clearly in contend for it all mode? Keep in mind they are going to lose two pitchers in free agency this winter. Find me a better, cost controlled, asset than Quintana to slide into your rotation for the next 3.5 seasons. Good luck.
Your definition of an “Ace” is also absurd. By your standards an Ace is Kershaw. And, to be clear, Kershaw would cost you a ton more than a great 20 year old prospect playing at A+ ball and a good 21 year old prospect with a history of injury problems.
And spare all of us the 108 year drought hyperbole. Every team in baseball has a longer WS drought than the Cubs right now. So something tells me the front office has earned more than a few stripes in managing rosters.
scjohn92
Very well said! The best, most articulate comment on this thread.
A'sfaninUK
Finally someone who understands how baseball works.
Bryzzo2016
Exactly! Most rumors claimed it would cost someone off the 25 man roster, Baez, Happ, Russell, Schwarber, Almora etc… to get a proven, cost controlled pitcher. Q, Gray, Fulmer, Archer etc… Neither Jimenez nor Cease have even been tested above High A. High bust probability for prospects that haven’t even proven themselves at AA. Another great trade by Theo
Priggs89
Really? I’m sure you were one of the many claiming they were both future superstars before this trade. Now that they’re gone, they’re just prospects with a high bust probability. Why do people have to do crap like this after every trade?
chitown311
How’s that busy busy ELOY doing now Bryzzo? Lolllll more like Tradeizzo
norcalblue
Sure seems like an overpay. After winning last year, i would have thought the Cubs would have demonstrated more restraint. Perhaps they’ve lost some enthusiasm for Jimenez?
JKB 2
No they have not lost enthusiasm for Jimenez. Get real. They love him but that was the PRICE you pay. You have to trade someone GOOD not garbage. You think they lost enthusiasm and started calling around to dump Eloy or something? No. They did not want to trade him at all
dodgerfan711
This package could have got them near sale. Theo messed up big time
Mak83
reason number 134 why you are not a GM — they gave value equal to what they received. GMs generally use facts when evaluating players As a sox fan i would love to say the Cubs were fleeced– but this is a good deal for both side.s.
Priggs89
Well put. I would’ve loved to get Candellario back as the third piece. Then we could call it a fleecing. This is great value for both sides in my opinion.
dodgerfan711
No one here is a GM. Your telling me if the cubs offered this exact package in the winter it wouldn’t have been in the ballpark for Sale? Sure it needs more but the difference between Sale and Quintanna is monumental.
Mattimeo09
No one here is a GM including you buddy. Epstein has a proven record of making mostly good decisions. And if they didn’t give up Jimenez they wouldn’t have gotten Quintana.
All of this Sale speculation is moot
Mak83
When did I mention that offer would not have been in the ballpark for Sale? I tend to focus on reality– I have no idea if the Sox make this deal for Sale nor do i find it relevant. define “monumental’. This year the difference between Sale and Quintana is vast. However, looking at actual historical evidence, the gap has not been nearly as wide. Output is output — Sale strikes out a ton more guys no one debates that. Sale has way better stuff. Sale has a better chance to dominate a game. No one ever argues that. . And I understand the notion of having more confidence in output resulting from reliable action (more k’s more likely to keep era other numbers low)– especially in limited samples. However, eventually, if a guy keeps producing value at a consistent level (see Q’s fwar over previous four years), you have to stop questioning how he does it and realize he is just a valuable pitcher. I find it absurd that Sox fans have taken such a beating for overvaluing Q, then the actual trade reflects that value, and we still have to defend that Q. This is a great move for the Cubs, and could be a very good move for the Sox. Time to move on– Q has been great and the Sox got a return reflective of that.
JKB 2
What does this “in the ballpark” for Sale mean dummy? What would “in the ballpark”. I bet them that many teams were “in the ballpark” then.
nrd1138
For gods sake, it is spelled ‘Quintana’. How can you be expected to be taken seriously if you cannot even spell the guys name? Even if you are doing it as a slight, again, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?!
nrd1138
Again, there is no such thing as a GM fleecing another GM. If a GM doesn’t know what he is doing, that is on him.. There is no fleecing of anyone. GM are adults, they are capable of making decisions on their own accord and in doing of their own homework. If a GM makes a bad trade that is on them. Do you notice how no GMs ever say they ‘got ‘fleeced?! Saying they got ‘fleeced’ only makes the GM look incompetent..
ckgjr30
Are you kidding? White Sox got the number 1 and number 11 overall prospects in MLB for Sale. This is the number 8 and number 63 overall prospects and two prospects that don’t even rank, I’m pretty sure this was a pretty even deal for a 28 year old pitcher controllable through 2020, who has a 3.52 career ERA.
JFactor
Meanwhile, Q and Sale have close to the same surplus value considering the extra year of control.
cxcx
On whose list was Kopech the #11 prospect at time of trade?
ckgjr30
Ok, he was ranked 30 out of MLB’s top 100 list when traded, still ranked twice as high as Cease upon trading, also I’m not too familiar with Kopech but, from what I’ve heard it’s a character issue that was hurting his stock last year. So if you really think Cubs could have received Chris Sale for this same package I don’t know what to tell you.
dodgerfan711
Not the same package but add schwarber and you might have a deal. Sale would have been an absolute game changer on the cubs. Theo should have thought it out a little more last offseason. Thats all.
anson's cap
Sale’s bad attitude does not fit in with the Cub way. Clubhouse cancers end up hurting the team more than their record helps.
Bruin1012
Clubhouse cancer what he has been awesome with the Red Sox that is just an ignorant comment.
eze01
You obviously know nothing about Sale. All his teammates love him. I’m sure you’re basing it all off of the stupid uniform thing
JKB 2
Add Schwarber? You said this package would get Sale. Adding Schwarber is a vast difference and shows you were wrong in your assessment
Play the Game
Come on the Cubs picked up a known wife beater last year and are dealing with possibly another wife abuser they have the same clubhouse as anyone else as long as you win who cares.
JKB 2
Haha sorry dude. First of all “near sale” is not getting Sale. Next that package would not even be close for Sale. Nice try
devans6915
who lines up as their best prospect now? Lange? little? candelario?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Not really 2 prospects for Chapman and 2 for for quintana. 4 players thrown in. 2 for each deal. Not a bad trade off world series champion 3+ years of Quintana.
RunDMC
What system ranking were these prospects: I know Jimenez & Cease were 1-2, what about the others?
deacs71
RunDMC – the other two guys were not included in the Cubs’ BA Top 30.
mitt24
Cubs have traded 25% of their top prospects in the past 2 years while the orioles have done nothing and the Cubs manage to have a better system than then. Eloy Jimenez is the only prospect going the other way that is not replaceable. Cease has potential but is replaceable. The other two.. replaceable easily. Why do you think the Cubs focused on college arms through the draft past few years? More advanced. Cubs system will be restocked with development
BSPORT
I think Theo just dumped his farm system of average minor leaguers that have been there a while and not even in AAA. I say steal for Theo. They didn’t get in return anything near what they were asking Yankees to give up for him.
Priggs89
Yah. You’re right. Eloy was only ranked like 40 spots higher than Frazier on Baseball Americas update, but he’s nowhere near the prospect Frazier is.
bluegorilla
High crosstown price on that deal.
dodgerfan711
White Sox are loaded for the future. They still have a few assets in the bullpen to trade
Caseys Partner
Yes, very nice selloff.
JKB 2
Yea White Sox looking good. Rick Hahn doing a nice job.
johansantana17
And Todd Frazier, Jose Abreu and Melky Cabrera
TheGreatTwigog
I think they keep Abreu bc they want him as a leader for Roberts and Moncada when they come up
crazy4cleveland
Out of nowhere
Eileenyy9
not really..plans go in to be processed, some quicker than others, yes. this was a quickie shocker
supermusicgenius
Nah no it won’t haha. The Cubs are still enjoying the hangover of a World Series. This team is nowhere near compared to last seasons team.
BaltimOrioles2016
didn’t see this coming…
Eileenyy9
Lol. no one did..I am still in awe
A'sfaninUK
SEE, PROSPECT HOUNDS???? MLB front offices value MLB talent over prospects 100% of the time!!! Why won’t you learn this???
chandlere
Not 100% of the time
A'sfaninUK
Yes, contending teams will flip any non-MLB player for the pieces they need to win. Get over yourself, hounding prospects – especially while contending – is not how MLB operates.
SuperSinker
It isn’t how many sports operate. But young talent is extremely valuable to teams that aren’t** contending.
BucSox
Actually it is. That’s why the Dodgers refused to part with Urias, Bellinger, and Seager over the last couple years. Cardinals also haven’t turned over top tier prospects to upgrade their roster in season either.
Cubguy13
Ok so a contending team will flip prospects to for MLB players now to help them win. Non contenders do the opposite. It’s a moot point. Prospects matter just as much as MLB players. It’s a matter of circumstance
cubsfan2489
For once JAF, I agree with you
hiflew
And how many WS titles do the Dodgers have over the past couple of decades?
saavedra
That’s why the dodgers lost to the Cubs. Had they handed Urias for Chapman, they would likely have a ring right now.
I Believe We Can Win
Is that why the Mariners held on to Walker and refused to give him up in a Price trade and why the dodgers held on to pederson and seager as well and refused to include them in a Price trade?
So no, not 100% of the time. Price and Kershaw Greinke would have been elite for the dodgers.
You can find many examples where teams held onto prospects instead of dealing them in deals for MLB talent.
dodgerfan711
Because the dodgers are smart and wont trade 7 years of urias for 2 months of chapman. hindsight is 20/20 its easy now to cherrypick urias because he got hurt. how about seager, joc or bellinger? should they have traded them too
A'sfaninUK
They only refused to part with them because they weren’t offered what they were looking for. EVERY prospect is trade-able, just look at any top 100 list packed with traded prospects.
2016Chccahmps
Cubs gave up Torres to get Chapman. Torres can turn out to be a multiple time Allstar, but in the end the Cubs got what they wanted, a Championship. And as a fan I’m all I and would do this again in a heartbeat.
I Believe We Can Win
As of right now- top 100 mid season only about 1/10th of the top 100 were traded. Note, this doesnt include players who were traded and became a top prospect years later like Frances Martes who was dealt at 18 and has developed into a top prospect since being traded in 3 years.
cxcx
And JAF doesn’t respond. Can the mods ban this troll? Not even funny like bigpapi4ever, just pure annoying trolling.
dodgerfan711
Every MLB star was once a prospect. Your logic is ridiculously flawed. If you dont value prospects you will never win a title. Look at every world series winner recently mabey besides boston. They had a core that was once prospects in their organization
Mikel Grady
I will second that.
themed
Yup once in a 100 years ought to be enough!
Mak83
dodger fan, I think the point is you don’t appropriately value actual valuable major leaguers.
JKB 2
You obviously know nothing if you think “any prospect” get flipped. Elite prospects need to be pried away. When will you learn this
jameyc
not sure the yanks were that high on urias.
A'sfaninUK
What am I supposed to respond to? Im not responding to every troll who hates that Im right and theyre wrong.
A'sfaninUK
You dont even know what youre talking about. Moncada got traded, my point all along has been no prospect is “untouchable” like so many dummies in these threads always say.
rbisingle
If that’s the case 100% of the time, why did the White Sox make this trade?
A'sfaninUK
Oh come on, I’m CLEARLY talking about contending teams – dont troll.
natelowda
how come the Cardinals don’t do it every season? they have the prospects to trade. but they end up hurting for it in late August.
nymetsking
In this case, 50%
ukhalo
Well, one team thinks like that. The other team in this deal obviously thinks precisely the reverse.
Gogerty
60% of the time, it works every time.
billysbballz
Once again silly comment. Cubs are made up of prospects and they are dealing for the one missing piece in there mind. Learn how the game works.
A'sfaninUK
Cubs are NOT “made up of prospects” they are made up of MLB players. Eloy was NOT on the Cubs, christ how can you be so determined to show how dumb you are?
Kylesamac
If that were true the Astros and Yankees would of made a deal like this long before the Cubs got involved. The only thing that happened here is the White Sox finally found someone desperate enough to pay their ridiculous asking price.
So thanks Cubs for screwing up the trade market for everyone else.
Cubs would of been better off just taking the hangover and retool in the offseason. The Cubs were built for the long term and to trade this much talent for Quintana is short sighted.
baines03
This is how the trade market works. This is how it has always worked. 29 other teams are there to set the market. Your valuation means nothing.
Kylesamac
Hence why it’s annoying. It’s one thing if all organization are competently run and understand value, it’s another when a team decides they want to be the New York Knicks if their respective sport.
Priggs89
Are you really trying to say the Cubs aren’t competently run? Man, you are clueless. I could tell from your first post, but this is just icing on the cake.
jameyc
sure they are,,,they just made a desperation move, period…unless quintana is pitching 5 days a week, playing all infield positions, and hitting 1-9 this move does nothing for the cubs. the entire team is down this year. maybe they aren’t the juggernaut they were anointed to be. Although good, quintana has a lot of innings on that arm and has pitched to an era over 4 at this very moment. he doesn’t put them over the top,,they overpaid and paid for past production and what if.
A'sfaninUK
BAINES03 gets it. Upvoted!
billysbballz
I didn’t realize the Yanks were one starter away? Wow! Houston yes, but the Yanks were one Q away from being a favorite? The Yanks are playing with house money this year and whatever they do is a bonus. When they are set with who they want to build around in the future and with the big 2019 free agent class Im sure then you will see a trade or trades for that one missing piece.
Burlycurly
The market dictates player value not the white sox or Cubs. Cubs traded Torres and other prospects for a three month rental. Indians traded their top pitching and top hitting prospect for 1 1/2 years of a relief pitcher. I think the Cubs did very well here.
halos101
if your point is that contending teams prefer big league talent over prospects, change your name to captain obvious
everlastingdave
So every time an MLB asset is traded for minor league assets… That proves what, exactly?
K_Man915
And it finally begins…
thor would look better in red
I know now we see everything else fall
jekporkins
Exactly. Domino effect in play. Gonna be a fun couple weeks on this site.
paulnewman
Nice return.
AnthonyRizzo44
Why?????!! Not Cease!!!!!!! And Eloy!!!!!!!!
A'sfaninUK
Why do you hate winning titles?
jameyc
cubs arent winning any titles this year.
Caseys Partner
The Cubs problem is lack of hitting. That’s the difference from last year.
Why do teams think you can fix a lineups lack of production by acquiring pitching? This is a well proven failure yet the idea lives on.
rbisingle
Their pitching hasn’t been great either.
mchaney317 2
You don’t have to score as many runs if you aren’t giving up as many. That’s the logic.
Caseys Partner
That’s the “logic” but it has been proven wrong time and time again.
If you can’t hit you can’t win. That’s been true in MLB since the 1980’s.
coloredpaper
Actually, the logic is pitching and timely hits wins the Series.
All you need is a great top 3, and clutch hitting in the playoffs to get you that ring.
Caseys Partner
“clutch hitting”
FAIL
jlmini10
Caseys Partner – getting Quintana is obviously an upgrade for the Cubs, they’re trying to go all in so you can’t rip the deal before any of the prospects have even played a game in the MLB.
Also if pitching and clutch hitting aren’t the recipe for World Series, then you must not have seen any of the giants 3 championships
Bruin1012
Pitching wins championships!
Adios pelota!
Jlmini10 took the words right outta my mouth hahaha
2016Chccahmps
Couldn’t have said it better.
kidbryant
The Cubs will be losing 2 SPS next year (Lackey and Arrieta) and Lester and Hendricks aren’t doing much this year either. 5th spot in rotation has been a carousel all year. Pitching is the definite need!
HighCheese17
Huh??? Did you see Lester last Sunday 10 runs in the first inning, 5 earned. Have you seen Lackey pitch this year?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
4 earned. Look it up.
Priggs89
It was in .2 innings. And didn’t he give up an “unearned” grand slam and solo shot back-to-back to end his day? Saying he only gave up “4 earned” doesn’t really make it much better.
IRAwillsetthemfree
Their pitching has been pretty bad aswell and they can still aquire a hitter. Q gives them a good #2 starter and means they don’t need to give arrieta a price/grienke contract in the offseason
Ry.the.Stunner
No, the difference from last year is pitching.
There’s a big difference between leading the league in ERA by over half a run and being mired in the middle of the league. There’s also a big difference between leading the entire MLB in first-inning runs.
The rotation is their problem, not the lineup. Yes, they need some more clutch hitting, but their rotation is their primary issue right now and it’s only bound to get worse with two of their five starters leading for FA next year.
JKB 2
What are you smoking Casey? The Cubs starting staff has a 4.66 ERA. Almost 2 runs worse then last year! The got pounded for over 10 runs per game TWICE last week!
Starting pitching is the problem! That is why Theo went to work to solve it in the short term and long term
Teddyballgame13
Y not Schwarber or another position player and not Cease?
IRAwillsetthemfree
Cubs really like schwarbers bat and cease is injury prone
CarlosMaysThumb
TJ surgery is not being injury prone.
JKB 2
Because the Cubs are better off with Schwarber and keeping the other “nameless position players” on the team.
You dont trade good position players who won the world series and who have talent to do it again off your major league roster to keep a low A ball prospect!! That is nuts!
Alowishus
The bar for starting has now been set. Let the fun begin!
bsteady7
Wish it had been Schwarber
MB923
Schwarber probably gets them Mike Pelfrey.
I’m kidding……..kind of.
marlinsman
Lmao
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Schwarber nearly got them michael fulmer. He could easily get another ace. Maybe not archer but sonny Gray yes. It would have to be a 3 for 1 deal.
giggity212
Schwarber did NOT nearly get them Michael Fulmer. Schwarber would have been the starting point. And Jimenez/Cease would have been involved too. You’re talking about a player not only much more effective than Quintana, but also much younger, much cheaper, and controlled much longer than him. He’s probably top 15 for most valuable assets in all of baseball right now
Eileenyy9
omg, lmao, good teply!!
JKB 2
You wish it was Schwarber because he is struggling? That is short sightedness. When he rebounds then what will you say?
GareBear
Simply…wow
ryanh48
That’s quite a large return. Wow!
dutch91701
That escalated quickly.
WubbaLubbaDubDub
Brick killed a guy!
Gballer
There running themselves into a deep hole and after all these guys contracts are up or they start retiring (Jon Lester) they aren’t gonna win for a while because they sold all there prospects off
Wolf Hoffmann
their, not there
driftcat28 2
They’re*
HighCheese17
And they’re.
kehoet83
Love it.
jackt
lol
JKB 2
Oh so they should not win now when they have the window? To save prospects to win later??? Huh? Sorry Cubs rebuild is over. Time to win
jayceincase
Holy mackerel! Hats off to the White Sox. Never thought Eloy would be a part of a Quintana package.
Caseys Partner
Theo giving away the farm for very little.
A'sfaninUK
An ace-level pitcher in a contending year is massive.
sal tarantino 2
is he an ace?
hi_guys
Quintana is ace level? That’s laughable. He’s a solid 2 and a great 3, but he is not and will never be an ace. A lot of his value comes from his consistency.
thor would look better in red
I would go as a
far as to say he is a solid 3 and the cubs need a 2. its tough bc there are not any solid twos out there. a bunch to 3s
Caseys Partner
No Quintana isn’t anywhere near an ACE.
Aaron Nola is a lot better than Quintana. Quintana is a solid fourth starter, an innings eater.
A'sfaninUK
Your idea of ace is laughable. Its not reserved for HOFers only
biasisrelitive
he’s a very good 2 and maybe a one on a lesser team but he’s not an ace. an ace is Kershaw, sale, bum, Scherzer type guy. that said you don’t have to be an ace to be very valuable
BucSox
He isn’t an ace but he is way better than a “solid 4th starter”.
Aj5258
Nice troll. If you seriously think Q is a #4, please list 3 teams that have three better pitchers in their rotation. Please consider all factors, not just W/L record. Q has been rated in the top 10-20 pitchers in the league for the past 2-3 years.
CarlosMaysThumb
Aaron Nola may eventually be better, but he is not at the moment better. Quintana is not an ace, but he is a solid #2. He is far more than an innings eater based on all his metrics other than W-L record.
pdubs2907
Aaron Nola? Come on dude lol
TrueOutcomeFan
Hahahaha!
Bruin1012
Lol what???
Bruin1012
Name one team where he is the 4th starter on and remember he averages about 4.5 war per year I’ve the last 4 years name one 4th starter that can say that. By advanced pitching metrics he is a top 20 pitcher period. Is he an ace no but a very good pitcher he is a 1 on some teams and two on just about any other.
billysbballz
Ace? LMAO, you are something…..
everlastingdave
Biasisrelitive- Everyone has their opinion on Quintana’s value. I share yours to the letter. Well said.
kidaplus
13th among active pitchers in ERA and 3 top 8 WAR finishes in an AL hitters park with terrible D behind him… yep 4th starter.
YankeeMan3099
The three team are the Red Sox, Sale, Price, Porcello even though Price and Porcello aren’t having good years but both are still better than Quintana, Indians Kluber, Carrasco, Salazar all better than Quintana, Nationals Scherzer, Roark, and Strasburg so there’s your 3 teams with better pitchers than Quintana case closed.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They have Quintana for 4 years giving up 2 players that will make the ML level 3 years from now. The other two not really who they.are. This is a win for the cubs.
ctguy
He is a solid #2. Not sure I’d want him for 4 years.
buehrle5687
You’re not sure you’d want “a solid #2” for four years?
kidaplus
yeah, who would want a 28yo lefty solid #2 who has never missed a start for 3.5 for just over what old arm lester costs for one?
jhinde103
Let the games begin!!!!
joemendoza23
This should help the Cubs get back on top of the division
JGubb1
One thing I love about Theo is he doesn’t screw around.
Caseys Partner
No screwing around from Theo, he has given away the farm and he threw money at Jason Heyward.
Pure genius.
Joe Kerr
Look where they were 5 years ago and what happened last year with all the young talent on that roster. He is doing just fine. -Sox fan btw
thump
He also won a Championship last year.. So maybe not so dumb he isn’t..
Caseys Partner
Would have won without Chapman for sure and without Heyward.
Heyward is more forgivable than draining the farm, though that kind of money for Heyward really causes deep pain.
Bruin1012
I think the Chapman get was what put them over the top I don’t think they win last year without him they were having issues with bullpen before he arrived.
mlb1225
Caseys Partner, do you intentionally go to these threads to start arguments?
Tyler 18
Theo has won, what, 3 championships? If that isn’t good enough for you, maybe try a new hobby.
Cubguy13
And put together a team to win the World Series after 108 years. …pure genius is correct
lol-really
Anonymous Internet Commenter Doesn’t Realize He’s a Troll
Caseys Partner, village idiot at MLBTradeRumors, has come out swinging, mocking the “genius” of Theo Epstein, President of the Chicago Cubs.
Epstein, 42, recently ended the Lovable Losers’ 108 year championship drought, the longest in professional sports, only 4 years after taking the reins of the hopeless club. He had previously ended the second longest championship drought in professional sports, as General Manager of the Boston Red Sox, where he was the youngest GM in the history of the game and eventually won 2 MLB World Series before leaving for the Cubs.
Caseys Partner, citing strategic trades of prospects, players who never fail to reach their potential, and one free agent deal that he has strong opinions about as evidence to stand up against Epstein’s 3 World Series Rings.
“The Cubs would have won without Chapman. They would have won without Heyward. I don’t understand what Epstein is thinking,” Caseys Partner added when we reached out for comment, “I mean seriously. Who needs a cost-controlled top-of-the-rotation starter when you can have prospects. Quintana is over-rated. He’ll provide no value to this club. Single-A Prospects – they’re the ones who hold the most value.”
Caseys Parter declined a full interview, citing his busy day of showing people on internet forums how dumb they are. “I’d really love to, but I still have to go on Facebook and prove people wrong about Zuckerberg. I mean, ads on Facebook? Seriously? You can’t make money if Facebook isn’t cool, and ads are not cool. Seriously. Ads. Pure Genius.”
rct
This is cruel and probably against the rules, but I laughed.
rayrayner
Hopefully, people will read this far. May the upvotes be yours.
Ry.the.Stunner
The Red Sox World Series drought was the third-longest at the time of the 2004 win, not the second-longest.
But other than that, kudos.
El Duderino
Best. Post. Ever. I literally lol.
lol-really
And this is my why my journalism career begins and ends anonymously in internet forums. haha
Bruin1012
Who was longer other then the Cubs?
Ry.the.Stunner
White Sox. White Sox last World Series title had been in 1917 until they won in 2005.
Bruin1012
Very good forgot about that.
aussiegiants53
Hahahaha gold!!
JKB 2
Yes pure genius from the best baseball executive in baseball who is heading to the hall of fame and already has 3 rings
nccubsfan 2
First questionable move (imo) by Theo and Co. I don’t know if Quintana is worth that haul. If we’re back in 1st place by end of the summer, then maybe.
jdgoat
Reeks alike a desperation move, but they can afford to do it. He’s a controllable top of the rotation pitcher
GoRockies
I agree with you completely, right now this move is very questionable
JKB 2
What is questionable? What is desperate? The Cubs land Q for FOUR pennant races now!! That is FOUR and all in his prime years!
Milo Goes To College
You don’t get solid starting pitching without paying. This isn’t a short term rental. There will be many drafts between now and when the Cubs have to worry. I’m betting a Schwarber deal is next followed by a huge push at signing Otani.
Ry.the.Stunner
Even if Otani is available this offseason, the Cubs won’t be in a position to sign him. The max they can spend on international signings is $300,000.
JKB 2
The Cubs can sign Otani if he is posted. The international rules do not apply
Ry.the.Stunner
Wrong. The new CBA says otherwise. They rose the player age from 23 to 25, so if Otani does post this offseason, the Cubs can’t sign him for more than $300,000. Look it up.
Caseys Partner
“First questionable move (imo) by Theo”
Jason Heyward waves hello.
Joe Kerr
So does DJ LeMahieu
Ry.the.Stunner
Joe wins. I have and will always consider the Ian Stewart trade to be Theo’s first mistake (and first trade in general).
nccubsfan 2
Ha, that’s fair I suppose. Defense wins games though. And J-Hey gives you plenty of that. His bat is coming back around. Would I have given him the crazy amount $ they gave him? Probably not. But then I again, I drive a Toyota, what do I know?
Cubguy13
Edwin Jackson???
stymeedone
Players from A ball are no guarantee to make the bigs. I personally believe that the White Sox should have been looking for talent closer to the Majors, No less than AA talent.. I consider this a win for the Cubs. Not a single sure thing for a valuable pitcher.
A'sfaninUK
“Eloy is UNTOUCHABLE” – an utterly clueless fan who doesn’t understand how MLB operates.
Mike M 2
Or they weren’t paying attention was Sale was traded
RiverCatsFilms
Not surprised to see Cubs get a starter
thebare
Lackey is long relief now
csamson11
Based off of how Joe generally operates, I would imagine Lackey stays in the rotation and Montgomery goes back to the bullpen. I would rather get rid of Lackey, but this is just how I see it actually playing out.
YankeeMan3099
Very happy my Yankees didn’t get him and trade away Torres or Frazier, Cashman is smart and knows not to trade away our future this makes me incredibly happy congratulations Cubs.
A'sfaninUK
You say that now, but Sonny Gray will be suiting up for you and Frazier will be in Oakland by the end of the month, lol
YankeeMan3099
Sorry buddy Frazier isn’t going anywhere not going to happen if the Yankees didnt trade him for Quintana they arent trading him for Gray get a clue.
fstop13
I would have taken Frazier and more to get Quintana so Frazier and a little less can still get moved for Gray and maybe even Alonso
arc89
Funniest post of the day! Gray cost went up not down since he is by far the top starter on the market. Got to love Yank fans who think you can get quality players by giving up nothing for them.
southi
We don’t know enough about what starters are truly available to flat out call Gray the top starter on the market. With Gray’s injury issues I sincerely doubt that he nets a comparable price to Quintana. Gray also has one less year of control than Quintana.
arc89
If you read who is on the trading block Gray is now the top starter mentioned. Yanks would need to give up Frazier in the deal to get Gray. Whatever teams feel Gray is worth the A’s are not selling low budget on him for a few mid level prospects. Baseball is all about supply and demand in the trade market. There are many back of rotation starters available to pick up if a team wants to budget shop.
jekporkins
No kidding – was on a post where a Yankee fan thought Ellsbury for Cueto was a good trade for the Giants. Delusional.
YankeeMan3099
Again Frazier is not being traded for anyone and if that means we dont get a big name player than I am fine with that, Cashman didnt want to trade Frazier and others for Sale and Quintana so what makes you think hes going to now all of a sudden turn around and trade these guys for a pitcher who’s not even close to as good as Sale not happening keep dreaming we aren’t gutting our farm and future stars for absolute over the hill garbage.
chopper2hopper
This clown again. “I’m very happy my Yankees didn’t get a great pitcher for minor leaguers.”
Classic delusional NY stupidity
YankeeMan3099
Quintana is not a great pitcher you are the clown the guy has a 4.49 ERA are you blind? Sorry you are upset that we didnt gut our future for a guy who’s at best a number 3 starter go polish up on your baseball knowledge because you don’t know jack.
thump
Fraizer aint going anywhere..
A'sfaninUK
I have the clues, you’re bragging before the deadline how your team isnt going to deal anyone when they absolutely are.
A'sfaninUK
@arc89 comin in with FACTS ONLY.
You’re a good one around here, glad you post!
nosoupforyou
Trading prospects for pitching isn’t always the best move, chopper. I’m sure Blue Jays fans would’ve rather kept Syndergaard. But according to you, they’d be delusional and stupid to think that…
YankeeMan3099
Sounds like you 2 are fudge packing brothers LMAO
YankeeMan3099
Calling Quintana a great pitcher just shows how much baseball knowledge you actually lack, Chris Sale, Kershaw, Scherzer, Bumgarner, those are GREAT pitchers not Quintana what did day care let you out early today?
Ry.the.Stunner
No, Sale, Kershaw, and Scherzer are ELITE pitchers.
Quintana is a great pitcher. There’s a reason he’s been in the Top 10 WAR for the past several years. The fact that you’re ONLY looking at his ERA from this season (which is elevated from a poor April) tells me that YOU don’t have much baseball knowledge.
YankeeMan3099
His best year was last year when he went 13-12 that’s not impressive he was almost .500 I know more baseball than you will ever know and i’ll say it again hes not a GREAT pitcher, in another year or so the Cubs will regret this trade for a guy who at best is a number 3 starter. If he’s so great then why didn’t he make the all star team this year? Yeah exactly because he’s not as good as everyone makes him out to be he’s overrated. Id rather have Cole Hamels who is a way better pitcher than Quintana and has pitched and been successful in the world series.
Ry.the.Stunner
You immediately lost the “I know more baseball than you will ever know” claim the second you referenced W-L record as the main factor in deciding his best season,. There’s no need to even continue this conversation because you immediately lost the argument in your first sentence.
Ry.the.Stunner
I guess that means King Felix was “average” when he went 13-12 in his Cy Young winning season.
chopper2hopper
He’s NY stupid. There’s a lot of it out there. It amuses me how stupid this Chris dude is though. New levels being reached here today.
davidcoonce74
Cole Hamels and his 4.9/9 K rate? Good luck with that.
JKB 2
Chris thinks win loss record is how you rate how good a pitcher is!! Hilarious!!
Eileenyy9
Chris. I am breathing a sigh of relief too.
Cashman is smart, he knows who he has..
our pitching rotation is giving me agita!!! Sever and Montgomery are great in my book..
billysbballz
You know it. Cash Ninja knows is looking to build something long term and not trade the farm for a good number two last year and mid rotation innings water in the AL this year. Small tweaks and when they are ready then go for that ace if available. Cheerios will be happy hearing that. Then go spend 400mill. We are all in agreement but we just maybe are looking at it how to get there a little differently.
kahnkobra
Frazier is not going to be that good, Torres had TJ surgery. nobody wants Yanks bum prospects
driftcat28 2
Lol
YankeeMan3099
You mad bro?
YankeeMan3099
You mad bro? Lol you said the samething about Judge a year ago who’s the bum now? What a fool !!!
bennett0088
We gave up too much but I’ll take it. We needed starting pitching about as bad as anything
jdgoat
Thank God there will be no more rumours. Now Atlanta, send Teheran the Dodgers and we can put these rumours behind us
billysbballz
Thank you Cash. Great move Cubs. Your one pitcher away! Even though he’s no ace you have Lester. Smart baseball decision for Cubs to repeat. Awesome move all around. Cheerios!!!!! Where you at son?
I’m sorry Cash Ninja didn’t trade away the farm as you suggested since they are far away from being one player away like the cubbies and Red Sawxxxx!
Cheerios?
YankeeMan3099
Very happy Cashman didn’t cave and trade away all of our prospects he’s not stupid were looking toward the future we want to win CHAMPIONSHIPS not just a CHAMPIONSHIP this must make all the Yankee haters upset that we didn’t get fleeced into trading away our future for a guy who’s not really worth it.
Mike M 2
yeah, that’s it
PBABowler27
Considering the Cubs already won a championship, this move is to get them to CHAMPIONSHIPS. It’s almost as if Theo knows what he’s doing more than you do!
nrd1138
No one is getting fleeced. Saying a GM gets fleeced by another GM only shows your ignorance (that is of course if your fan boy preaching of never trade any prospects because they will all turn out awesome does not make people see this already)
sufferforsnakes
Good, now we don’t have to face him several times a year.
mchaney317 2
But in a few years the Indians will have to deal with the White Sox 19 times a year and that doesn’t seem too fun either
sportsfan25
Wow Crazy life offer. Great young controllable pitcher for the cubs and great return white sox.
THE JOKER
wow. you could have gotten more from Oakland..like Lowerie/Gray….don’t understand…why give them so much we got so little…
Dookie Howser, MD
Is Gray + Lowerie more than Quintana?
A'sfaninUK
I can’t wait to see Oakland trade Madson & Alonso for Frazier next week, should be ghost town with all the insaneo Yankee fan posters on here having a collective heart attack, but the rest of us can see them trading Frazier this month so easily.
arc89
not sure if the Yanks will make a trade since they are barely keeping above .500. My bet is the Brewers offer up Brinson for Gray who fits the A’s need for a CF. Frazier is a corner OF with more power but his defense is only suited for corner OF position.
YankeeMan3099
Not happening the Yankees would never trade Frazier for Madson and a rental like Alonso you truly are a clown too bad we are keeping all of our top prospects I know that makes you angry. Get a life you probably dont even have a job sitting on your computer all day, you are one of those pretend to be tough guys hiding behind a computer monitor and wouldn’t stand a chance in a real fight because you would run the other way looking for mommy LOL
arc89
Says the guy who thinks the A’s would trade Gray for a package around Andujar. My guess you are the same person that posted that terrible package on the chat yesterday that was shot down as no way without a top prospect included.
YankeeMan3099
Sonny Gray is not worth Frazier or Torres end of story.
Chucky25
not bad,I like Eloy
Cubguy13
I’m not thrilled with this move. I didn’t want the Cubs to move Jimenez to begin with, especially to the White Sox…
redsfan48
While I agree the price was steep, Quintana immediately becomes the Cubs’ Ace. Was probably a necessary move if they want any chance of defending their World Series title.
Mike M 2
Quintana becomes the #3
skybluesox
Wrong
Boomer14
You cannot be serious… Quintana is instantly the Cub’s most reliable starter!!
Boomer14
Could be the worst comment of the year
billysbballz
Maybe in NL he can become a great two but ace???
We will see.
sss847
he was already a great 2 in the AL. and a #2 AL pitcher just started the NL all-star game. stuff will play up facing 8 hitters. it happens to literally every pitcher that makes the jump.
Mike M 2
yeah good call, Max Scherzer is totally a #2. LOL
IRAwillsetthemfree
I think he meant max was a #2 in AL, and he kinda has a point
jackt
what in the hell are you talking about
El Duderino
He was behind a still Cy Young contending Verlander. He doesn’t so much have a point so much as he has a technicality. Scherzer would be the ace on nearly every team in baseball regardless of AL or NL.
usafcop
Scherzer is far better than Q though….2 different tiers…..Q was a number 2 behind Sale because they didn’t have anyone good after Sale…..Q became the ace by default….Scherzer is an ace on any team even if it means he is a co-ace
pdubs2907
But Scherzer has been even more dominant in the NL which is his point.
sss847
its not just scherzer. its every 1/2 that goes over to the NL that goes from good to dominant. look at CC, greinke, roy halladay, even guys like gio gonzalez and jeremy hellickson who are 5s in the AL come over and become 2s or 3s
the idea that Q “maybe could become a #2” by moving to the NL is ridiculous when he was already a high end #2 in a more difficult league to pitch in.
Bruin1012
Are you calling Sale a number 2? Wow that’s so wrong.
Ry.the.Stunner
AL Scherzer: 3.52 ERA, 117 ERA+
AL Quintana: 3.51 ERA, 115 ERA+
I don’t see much difference.
gcg15
They didn’t acquire him to be a per se ace. Obviously he’s been really solid.
But there are really very few “ace” pitchers in the true sense of the word. The Cubs acquired him because he is really good, eats innings and is the best cost controlled pitching asset they could expect to acquire in a trade from anyone. They are going to lose two starters and potentially their closer in FA this year. A move like this was inevitable for the Cubs. It isn’t as if their farm is replete with good pitching prospects that are near ML ready. A move like this makes a ton of sense for this year and the next few years.
JKB 2
Q is NOT the ace
a5ehren
So two top-100s and two other dudes who exist. Interesting.
A'sfaninUK
A top 5-10 and a top 50 and 2 other pieces, A’s fans are going to be salivating if Sonny Gray brings in a similar package.
thediesel4
It’s a top 10 and another top 100 player plus two others. Cease was in the lower third on BA’s mid-season rankings., they normally do a good job on rankings.
A'sfaninUK
BBA had Eloy at #5 and Cease at #83 on their midyear list
baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-midseason-top-100-…
Ry.the.Stunner
@Just Another Fan – which is exactly what he said
Eloy was #5 (a top 10) and Cease was #83 (in the lower third)
thebare
Good the Cubs are young cause we traded the farm for a avg pitcher but there ain’t many out there. Hurting bad but I trust Theo
jdgoat
“Average”
hibbisco
“A average”
aff10
He’s not average bro
aff10
Evidently this is a minority opinion, but I think this is a great move for the Cubs. Eloy’s a great prospect, and has massive power upside no question, but he’s still in A- Ball. Great get, but a ton of risk there.
I would’ve expected the White Sox to get two top prospects for Quintana, but evidently they were willing to take a chance on the most upside in one player they could get. Understandable, given where they’re at, but I did always expect Quintana to pull a bigger package from someone else, given his talent and contract
Caseys Partner
The White Sox did get two “top prospects”. Two Top 100 prospects.
aff10
Not what I meant. Cease has massive reliever risk, issuing 5 walks per nine in A- Ball. Eric Longenhagen at Fangraphs had a 45 FV on him before the season. I know other outlets have him higher, and his fastball is elite, but Cease isn’t exactly the kind of secondary guy I would’ve expected for Quintana
Saleaway
This isn’t a one big fish trade though. Cease is a big time prospect too.
thump
Meh.. 21 in Low A.. Pitching prospects are volatile AF. Just ask Urias, Reyes or the plummeting stock Lucas Gioloito.. And all those guys were better ranked.. Eloy is the prize
Joe Kerr
Great move for both sides, makes sense both ways.
tigerfan4ever
I guess they aren’t interested in Fulmer and/or Norris from the Tigers anymore?
slyfox1908
If the Tigers decide to trade Fulmer for Schwarber I’m sure he’s still available.
baines03
Cubs fans need to start reassessing the value of Kyle Schwarber.
nccubsfan 2
Would have rather seen them trade Schwarber, but he didn’t really give them a choice with the way he’s handled the bat thus far in 2017.
MB923
White Sox in all liklihood have the #1 farm now. Well done Hahn.
BravesBoi
Unfortunately I would say that’s correct. I would say we still have more depth and with the way players get injured that’s pretty nice, but they have more top tier prospects than we do.
thegreatcerealfamine
Na Yankees have 10 prospects who’d be #1 in those farms.
MB923
10? A bit too high.
thegreatcerealfamine
Ok nine..
Bruin1012
Lol the number one prospect was already on the White Sox. They now have what three at least in the top 30.
thegreatcerealfamine
Come on. You haven’t read Billy’s untouchable prospect list he’s been working on with Baseball America,Fangraphs,MLBpipeline,Minorleagueball,and sitting in on the top prospect show on MLB network.
Bruin1012
Billy is a bit out there there are a couple of Yankee posters who aren’t living in reality.
Joe Kerr
According to MLB.com top 100, the White Sox now have 9 and they are all in the top 70.
stymeedone
Is there a trophy for that? Must be something new. That would make the goal to trade anything of value on the major league roster and then spend years not competing. All with no assurance that winning at the ML level will actually happen. Hahn can have that title.
kyredsox17
People freaking out about them depleting the Farm..you realize most of their ML roster is young controllable players? Now they have added another.
nccubsfan 2
that’s a good point
kyredsox17
Maybe now you go look for a lead off hitter? It’s hard to imagine benching anyone on that team, but maybe a time share between Baez/Russel and Dee Gordon? Can Gordon play short? Or if Schwarber doesn’t start clicking you get someone in the OF that can lead off..like that Dexter Fowler guy..but obviously not him haha. Really the only NEED I feel like they still have.
SeanCasey21
Finally let trade season begin
jdgoat
The White Sox are going to be the best team in the league in a couple of years
Bruin1012
If everyone of there prospects pans out to there potential then yes but that won’t happen. They should be very much improved in a few years though regardless.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I hope the Pirates talk of keeping Gerrit Cole was just lip service. Quintana going to a team few expected means the Astros and others still need a SP and have one less to choose from…
Monkey’s Uncle
Whether or not they are in rebuild mode, the Bucs still need a horse, an ace starter. If they still think Cole can be that guy, then they shouldn’t be looking to move him. If, on the other hand, they think Taillon is that guy, I agree with you completely.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I personally like Taillon and Nova much more than Cole. Keith Law thinks Mitch Keller can be an ace.
If there was any chance to keep the Boras lead Cole, I’d feel differently, but now is the time to cash him in.
Flip the return for Sonny Gray or someone you could actually keep long term if you want to keep the same dynamic.
Monkey’s Uncle
agreed on all counts.
Robertowannabe
A lot will depend upon how the Bucs come out of the gate after the break if they move Cole now, after the season or next year. Same with Cutch. Depends upon where they stand and what is being offered for both. I am glad that they did not give up a kings ransom for Quintana. Very good pitcher but not sure worth what was reportedly being requested from the Sox.. Cole will never resign with the Bucs and I am not sure I would want to resign Cutch long term given his age.
ryanh48
This definitely sets the bar high for other starting pitchers, especially Gray. Hopefully, this helps JV’s value, but I doubt it.
Monkey’s Uncle
I had been very much in favor of the Pirates pursuing Quintana, but not for that much return. Doesn’t mean I’m looking to him pitching against the Bucs, of course.
dmere31
Yeah Bucs to cheap. I look for a fire sale in Pittsburgh on July 31.
Monkey’s Uncle
Feel free to look for it. There will be trades, but not a fire sale.
And nothing about not trading for Quintana makes the Bucs cheap.
Robertowannabe
Love the Bucs are cheap comments. They did not throw money at Neil Walker and they are cheap even though he has been on the DL for much of the time he has been with the Mets. He would not have helped the Bucs last year because his back gave out and missed the end of the year when they would have needed him to get to the post season. He would be gone now. again. Not paying a guy multi millions who has injury problems and aging is cheap now I guess.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
A local fat guy, in order to paint the Pirates in a bad light, was reduced to including Walker, Liriano, Happ and PEDRO ALVAREZ on a list of “key” players the Pirates got rid of from the 98 win team.
Key. Players.
Walker is overpaid and hurt. Liriano is overpaid and bad. The same people whining that they are cheap losers for not keeping Happ are the exact same people who whined that they were cheap losers for acquiring Happ when they got him. And Pedro is in freaking AAA. In the OF of all things.
Never mind that Nova has been better than Happ. Never mind that Williams has been better than Liriano. Never mind that Bell is an emerging star at first. Never mind that Harrison was an All Star at second.
Never mind that the Pirates replaced all of the above with better players, NOT keeping those bums “PROVES” they are cheap and don’t want to win. Or something.
mchaney317 2
This definitely seems like an overpay by the Cubs. But let trade season begin!
Mjmarx59
Looks like the Cubs won’t be the best team in Chicago much longer. THEY JUST GOT ROBBED!!
halos101
no they didn’t
2016Chccahmps
Cubs have established young hitters, Sox have a ton of prospects which you better hope pan out before putting your team ahead of anyone else.
thegreatcerealfamine
Thank the lord in heaven the Yankees held onto Mickey Rutherford because he’s gonna start,hit third,and close games starting in September 2017..the face of MLB. Study your prospect lists now!!
YankeeMan3099
Also Torres and Frazier these guys are our future Cashman isn’t stupid and wasnt going to get fleeced by Rick Hahn.
thegreatcerealfamine
Yea I know..but silly Billy needs his lithium!
kahnkobra
Yanks prospects are bums
YankeeMan3099
Yeah sure they are so if they are such bums then why does every team want Torres and Frazier in trades? Yeah that’s what I thought the only bum here is you
Burlycurly
Cashman may not be stupid but you surely are Chrissy
YankeeMan3099
Is that what you say to your boyfriend every morning burly? Lol fool
nrd1138
Fleeced by Hahn? God, now I know you really know nothing and are a typical fan boy. First your comments of something akin to ‘oh my team cannot trade any of their prospects because they are better than established MLB players’, and then this fleece talk. GMs are grown men and know, or should know, what they are doing.. NO ONE gets fleeced as a MLB GM, NO ONE! If someone fails to do their homework then they are incompetent.
KnicksFanCavsFan
Fleeced means someone got the better of them. Whether that ignorance is from a lack of due diligence is not the issue. Several GMs have been fleeced throughout history. Not sure why you’re so against his comment.
billysbballz
Trolling is great isn’t it Cheerios. Sorry about Q but Rutherford could be dealt for an ACE and then Harper gets his 400 mill!
Lmao
thegreatcerealfamine
Man in the mirror!!!
billysbballz
Cheerios I bet you one day you will love this decision not gutting the farm for Q. Trust in the process. We will make trades for an ace when the tine is right and maybe go spend that 400 mill. Cool your jets and breathe. Have patience my young fruit loop.
dmere31
Wow, stunning! This may not put them in first place, but it sure doesn’t help Pirates out. Of course Bucs are too cheap anyway!
Hannibal8us
I think it definitely helps the Pirates out, sets the market for Cole a lot higher.
JKB 2
The market for Cole was already higher them this. Nothing is set higher
ib6ub9
At least the Cubs are helping the best team in Chicago get better.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Cubs will always be the better team no matter what.
bigcubsfan
Wow! Did not see that coming at all! I read the headline and was like “for real?!?!”
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Saw this watching international talk. My first thought was wtf why did they trade eloy Jimenez. This is awesome.
Only about 2 maybe 3 weeks before they play each other. Hope he faces the white Sox in the crosstown showdown.
sportsfan 2
As a Braves fan I happy that the Braves didn’t pull the trigger seeing what the Cubs gave up. I will say this Jose Quintana will help the Cubs starting rotation. He should be pencil in as a number 2 starter. As far the White Sox you hate to trade away your ace but wow you have to love the returned that you got from the Cubs. The Cubs number one and number two overall Prospects. I bet the weather is sunny right now in the North and South side of Chicago.
sportsfan 2
With Quintana gone the price tag on Julio Tehran just went way up. I won’t be surprise to see the Braves trade him and get great value back. I do think that Tehran might be dealt before Sunny Gary does.
southi
Steep price, but very well could be the best move for the Cubs because Quintana might can push them over the top.
I am glad that the Braves didn’t pay a comparable price (Acuna and Allard plus others). Not that Quintana won’t be worth it, but because in my opinion the Braves have far more issues than one starting pitcher can fix.
ib6ub9
Over the top and down the cliff they go. 108 more years!
thediesel4
Acuna and Allard are not a comparable price. More like Anderson/Gohara as the second piece.
bballblk
Finally!
sellers6
Wow, White Sox farm system is a juggernaut now. Great work by the front office
chasfh 2
I like Quintana, but OH MY GOD! Eloy Jimenez PLUS Dylan Cease PLUS two other guys? You have GOT to be kidding me. Is Dave Dombrowski working for the Cubs now?
biasisrelitive
the two other guys are almost non prospects but those are a big 1-2
JKB 2
Yes plus “two other guys” that you never heard of and could not even name but that part the trade upsets you?
Saleaway
Good move for the Cubs as now they can have $$$ for another starter this winter or to try to entice Kris Bryant to sign a huge prearb deal. GREAT move for the Sox and My boy Rick Hahn. Any Yankee fans out there think Torres not going in a deal for Q got their answer. No Torres, no Q. Yes his value is that high boys and girls and Hahn made sure of it
terry g
The Cubs needed to add a young starter long term and are currently around .500. They needed pitching to replace the ones they’re gonna lose at the of the season and get back in the race. They traded from strength. They have a lot of outfielders. Expensive but needed.
sss847
as expected, quintana got a return that fell between the chris sale and adam eaton returns. would have preferred a better third piece, but wow what a centerpiece.
Geoff28
They got 2 top 100 prospects for a #2 starter, that’s a great deal!
driftcat28 2
So glad the Yanks didn’t give up any big prospects. Keep building!
dodgerfan711
I was 100 percent wrong to all those people i was debating Q with. However even you guys mist admit this is as overpay as this package could have got close to sale
Saleaway
As a Sox fan I admit this is more than I though they’d get. And that’s with me valuing him as a high end #2. Teams are just so reluctant to move high end prospects these days. I prefer this over any of the other deals speculated on. Hahn may be the best GM in the game. Don’t sleep on the fact that Hahn is the main negotiator in the Sale and Quintana extensions
Modified_6
No… people don’t have to admit this is an overpay. That’s what people have been trying to say, they thought a package like this was coming. Not necessarily from the Cubs, but the same type of deal.
Most of the people screaming overpay still call Q a “solid 3” lol. The dude is really good and controllable at a known price.
dodgerfan711
I know dang well you weren’t expecting Eloy Jiminez. Come on i heared 2 top 20s but not top 5
Modified_6
I literally just said I wasn’t even expecting it to be the Cubs.
But actually yes, tons of people thought it would be a really high prospect. 2 20s or 1 top 5 is close to the same thing.
Priggs89
This is actually exactly the type of package I thought they’d get (top 2 guys plus fillers) if they traded Q to the North Side…
dodgerfan711
I dont think trading him to the cubs is a big deal. After all it is an NL team. good trade however and i will take my L on this one. never expected this much
Saleaway
I back Priggs up on this. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you call it exactly. Jimenez, Cease, and two lower level guys in another thread
biasisrelitive
good for just taking the hit there. and I think it’s a slight overpay but it’s a good piece for the Cubs that said I’m happy the dodgers didn’t do it
Cubguy13
Chris Sale got the games top prospect who was in AAA and will be ready this year, along with a big power arm who is top 20 I believe in Michael Kopech who is in AA and could even come up this year also. Quintanas return got a top ten prospect(not top overall) and is still years away along with Cease who is years away and ranked near 60. This package would not have got Sale…
thegreatcerealfamine
Next big thing..three way trade Angels get Clint Frazier Dodgers get Chance Adams..Yankees get Kershaw and Trout and payment of 50% of their remaining salaries..win win win!
bravesfan
Stop lol
greatdaysport
Getting Trout starts with Kershaw, judge and Dodger and Yankee prospects.
halos101
stop trolling
billysbballz
he can’t help himself. I think he’s a Yankee fan but one can never tell because I don’t know this many silly Yankee fans.
thegreatcerealfamine
silly=Billy and the untouchables
thegreatcerealfamine
Back to Anaheim pal!
BSPORT
I wouldn’t say that would get Kershaw or Trout. Two prospects, not even top for best pitcher and best player in baseball? Pass it twice around room with the execs before you propose that one.
bravesfan
THANK GOD the braves didn’t get him! The asking price, and ultimately the price paid is far too much. Good for the white sox for taking advantage. Braves take notes, we might not have a horribly overrated trade piece like the sox, but we still have some assets we can trade to continue the rebuild.
CompanyAssassin
Well that’s just great.
formerlyz
Wow. Wouldn’t have expected this kind of a trade between these 2 teams. I’m also really high on Jimenez, so I don’t know if I’d have been able to risk sending him across town….but the Cubs obviously have a bunch of young position players, and need pitching, so it’s not shocking or anything.
fatelfunnel
Moncada 1
Jimenez 8
Kopeck 11
Robert 23
Giolito 28
Lopez 36
Fulmer 59
Cease 63
Collins 68
That’s nine of the top 68 prospects… and that’s not including Alec Hansen who some rank as the second best pitching prospect behind kopeck.
sellers6
And depending on what you think of Jake Burger, he could be in there somewhere
Zcash10
Such a good farm now! Just keep selling what you can and wait 3-4 years and should be a good ball club!
sss847
spencer adams & dane dunning are also playing up this year.
i’m confident mlb will drop at least 4 of those guys back in their mid-season rankings, but the farm is looking pretty great regardless
BSPORT
Key word “prospects”
ChiSoxCity
Nice job Rick! Can’t wait to see the haul for Robertson. That should line the Pale Hose up for a top 3 draft pick next year. Love it!
Bruin1012
Isn’t Robertson out for the year?
ChiSoxCity
No, that’s Nate Jones.
buehrle5687
No. Nate Jones is
Bruin1012
Oh yea that’s right sorry
cubfanforever
I’m a Cubs fan but I like this trade for both teams.
Quintana is a big plus for the rotation and they didn’t give up anyone off the major league roster. I think another pitching move is coming, soon, and it will cost someone off the current roster.
Baseball is all about pitching, did you see most of the pitchers in the All Star game shutting down the best sluggers in the game ? It happens every year.
joew
yikes…. and i was just thinking i was liking the Pirates chances of catching the cubs ( though it was still tough ) Now… well… geez.
thump
I know it hurts to give up a prospect or two.. But look at the Cubs depth chart.. Where wuld Eloy even play at this point? Controlled players at each position and veteran back ups (Jay, Zobrist).. Pitching was the issue and they addressed it.. I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it..
baines03
“I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it..”
I think those are the best trades. When two intelligent GM’s deal, both teams should benefit.
67redsox
The White Sox told Maddon he couldn’t have Renteria’s job so they would have to settle for Quintana
Mike M 2
if another person calls Quintana and ace, I’m going to bash in my computer screen
johnnyg83
Quintana’s an ace.
See ya!
fatelfunnel
Quintana is an ace… bash away
thegreatcerealfamine
Not only an ace but a future HOF!
morebreakdowns
I don’t get the people saying Quintana is insanely over rated. Hes a very good pitcher, I dont think he’s an ace but probably a high 2. I’m not going to say the Cubs made out in the deal, but lets not pretend the Cubs didnt get any value out of it either.
YankeeMan3099
With what the Cubs just gave up to get Quintana they could have gave up a similar package to have gotten Sale who’s 100 times better than Quintana I think we can all agree on that, it makes you wonder if you are a Cubs fan.
morebreakdowns
Giants fan, try again
Dookie Howser, MD
Before Sale got traded, there was a lot of discussion that Quintana had more trade value of the two because of his better contract situation.
This package got Q now, but his value has also dropped because (1) he has a half season less of control and (2) he’s been having a down year., so you can’t really compare apples to apples here.
Cubguy13
Sox got the top prospect in all of baseball and a higher ranked prospect than Cease for Sale. How would Quintanas return come close to getting Sale? Keep in mind the Cubs gave up single A prospects who still need to show they can progress through the system.
Burlycurly
Yankees made out the most Chapman for the #2 prospect torres for a top 5 closer and only three months. Sale(3 years ) 1,20 prospects for top 5 pitcher in all of baseball Sox were robbed
Bruin1012
Sales package was better and it should of been he is a bonafide ace.
classicmixup
No way the Cubs get Sale with that package!! No way!! Jimenez and Cease were only in Single A ball. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Cubs traded from a position of strength to address a position of need. Great trade for both teams!! Quintana will be a staple for the Cubs for the next 3 years.
marcogogo
Really tho, the white sox farm now contains jiminez, cease, Collins, roberts, moncada, koepech, giolito, Lopez, dunning, and their draft picks, not to mention Anderson. I’m tigers fan and in a few years this is gonna suck lol. Congrats to the white sox on a good build tho. It’s gonna b fun and sad to watch!
Aaron 11
Foolish trade! The Theo Epstein that got himself run out of Boston is back. Quintana is a solid #3 starter. They could have easily gotten similar for Schwarber from an AL team, Especially now that they really dont have anywhere to put him on the field with Happ in the majors doing well and Zobrist coming back. As a Brewers fan, I love that their farm system is depleted again. First Torres and now Jimenez and Cease….yikes!
johnnyg83
say what you will about the trade but Theo’s got three rings from two lovable loser franchises.
sammykhalifa
“lovable.”
pdubs2907
I’m a Brewers fan too, but they weren’t getting anything close to Quintana or Fulmer for Schwarber.
Bruin1012
Ok mister he is a three what teams is he a three on seriously?
CubbieBear23
Probably only the Nationals or Dodgers which isn’t reflective of the league as a whole. Actually I think he will be the #3 on the Cubs due to Arrieta holding onto 2 by default until FA.
halos101
the trade of torres got them a ring so stop it. Anyone who pays attention to the sports world on sites like these cannot criticize genious’ like theo. He’s trading prospects for rings. stop it
JKB 2
Ok Brewer fan be happy then cry me a river when Q and the Cubs win the division and you are not even in the playoffs
tac3
Bravo Theo. Smart move … go for more. You can’t always build for the future. Sometimes you gotta poo or get off the pot. Theo dropped a bomb in bowl. Good for him.
bobbleheadguru
I would think the Tigers would have given up Fulmer for slightly more than this.
Qs ERA in the weak AL Central is 4.49. You are hoping he returns to form. Fulmer would have given you league minimum salary and 4.5 years of control.
skybluesox
Should be really good in the other weak central. Then add in removing the 9th hitter. 1.78 era in June. The potential is below a 1 era for July in his new division.
alexgordonbeckham
White Sox have done an amazing job over the past 7 months. Wow.
gormanthomasrules
So::
What if you STILL don;t catch the Brewers?
What if there’s injuries?
What’s the plan now? The farm system is now officially barren..
hiflew
What if they do? What if there’s not? What if they win the WS again?
Farm systems are EASY to replenish for big spending clubs. Just a couple of years ago everyone was saying that the Yankees will be in for years of losing because their farm system was so bare. That didn’t happen either.
Caseys Partner
WRONG
Very tight restrictions everywhere now making the replenishment of a farm very difficult.
Tyler 18
Dude please just get a journal, your emotional rants are adding nothing to the value of this site.
hiflew
Very tight restrictions? There are no tight restrictions. There are only taxes. If you pay enough you can get around anything. The Cubs just need to go crazy on international spending while buying up spending slots with fringe minor leaguers. Eloy Jimenez and Gleyber Torres were a product of crazy international spending not that long ago.
halos101
what do they do now if they don’t win this year? They are still stacked with young talent… and caseys partner, your not as smart as you think you are. please stop replying to everyone just bashing what they say
alexgordonbeckham
Ummm if they don’t, they can go out and sign another SP next year? They’re fine. They have young MLB controllable players at MLB level that they are having trouble finding spots for.
JKB 2
Oh now its “officially barren”. Haha ok
saavedra
Were are the Yankee fans saying that Quintana would cost Mateo and 2 lesser prospects?
I wish I could tag…
calikid13
I’m loving this — as a Cardinals fan. The Cubs give away their future for Quintana? Sonny Gray was a better option. Cubs can’t fix all their problems with Quintana alone. Go White Sox! Lol
Ry.the.Stunner
Who said Quintana is their only acquisition? There’s plenty more pitchers available and plenty free agents to be had in the offseason as well.
Overbrook
Sonny Gray has never had a single year as good as any of Quintana’s 2014-16.
CubbieBear23
Agreed, I would take Quintana over Gray any day. Not sure why people are so high on Gray? Quintana is going to take off on a better team and they will feed off each other.
alexgordonbeckham
Fact: Quintana and Gray are very similar statistically. Quintana has been healthier and also has one year more control over Gray. Therefore. I’d rather have Q.
CubbieBear23
Enjoy being tied with the Cubs for now. This is the best the Cards can do this season while the Cubs are playing at their worst lately. The Cards run officially ended with the loss to the Cubs in 2015. They will be back though so hang in there…
Priggs89
This trade makes SO much sense that it’s kind of shocking it went down. Great move by both clubs. Now we can put an end to the “Sox and Cubs won’t trade with each other” nonsense. As excited as I am to get Eloy and Cease back (which is extremely excited), I can’t wait to see how good Quintana is for the Cubs. No, I’m not turning into a Cubs fan, but I’ll certainly be rooting for him.
rayrayner
Priggs89 and Joe Kerr are not typical hater Sox fans. Kudos!
CubbieBear23
I am happy for the Sox as well and they will be a force in 3-4 years in the AL. Mighty big of you to keep rooting for Quintana, rare find on here.
Burlycurly
I’ll root for the Cubs once every 5 games. Me and the Q share Colombian heritage. Can’t root against my guy.
hiflew
Jose Quintana to the Cubs makes perfect sense. Both had years way over their heads in 2016 and are in the midst of major regression in 2017. It’s a match made in heaven.
CubbieBear23
What no Theo is a garbage GM? You’ve got that Troll thing down…Cards fan?
hiflew
Nope, guess again.
gcg15
Yeah, the Cubs won 97 games in 2015 and 103 games in 2016. When a team goes 200-124 over 324 regular season games it is obviously just a fluke.
Nicholas Koch
Oh Theo.
YankeeMan3099
Surprised the White Sox didn’t ask for Schwarber as well and plug him into the DH spot, Yanks will probably get Gray and Doolittle now most likely for Andujar, Sheffield, and probably 2 more prospects. Sorry folks those 2 other prospects aren’t Torres or Frazier either.
johnnyg83
Sox are deep with DH types: Davidson, Collins, Burger,
Priggs89
The Cubs just gave up a prospect comparable to Torres and better than anyone else in your farm. You think you are getting a similar pitcher + a good reliever for Adujar/Sheffield + fillers? Good luck.
YankeeMan3099
You just love to respond to anything I say huh you are a troll who just hates the Yankees, Torres and Frazier are better than the crap your White Sux received nice try though its pretty clear you have no life and no job because you are on this site everyday lol. By the way you brainless fool Andujar is better than Eloy, your new boy toy Eloy got compared to Jorge Soler LOL how has that turned out? LOL what a mindless fool go back to day care no one wants to hear your fu*king mouth.
Priggs89
You’re an easily triggered little guy, aren’t ya?
Don’t worry sweetheart, I’m sure Frazier will keep slugging .900, and that .309 OBP won’t come back to bite him. And you’re right, Andujar is way better than Eloy. I have no idea how all the prospect outlets keep messing that up.
YankeeMan3099
Jealous much? That we have the best farm system in baseball and that we aren’t trading Frazier, Eloy is overrated he will be another Jorge Soler all these praises about Eloy we all heard the same thing about Soler a few years ago when he was suppose to be the next Barry Bonds lol. White Sux are terrible and a disgrace to all of baseball look at the name of their stadium Guaranteed Rate Field and it has a arrow pointing down lol meaning the team is going DOWN!!!!!! LMAO
Priggs89
Yup. I already agreed with you. Eloy is overrated. And all the Yankees top 30 prospects are future superstars. All the top 10 guys would be #1 in any other system. How many times do I have to agree with you?
Bruin1012
You aren’t getting Gray for much less then it would cost for Q and if Doolittle is added the package will start with Rutherford if not one of Frazier or Torres. I don’t think the Yanks are going to trade for him though unless they truly feel they can win the division if they fall back further in the next two weeks then they might even turn into slight sellers. If they stay in this and feel good about there chances and want want Gray then bye bye Rutherford, Sheffield and at others.
YankeeMan3099
No problem with not getting Gray if it means Torres or Frazier are going to be traded he’s not worth those type of players, Id rather trade those guys for a pitcher like Stroman hes younger and a better pitcher than Gray, plus Gray has been hurt a lot the last few years Stroman hasn’t and I wouldn’t call a blister being injured..
saavedra
that package might, just might fetch Brad Hand. Probably does, but maybe not.
jekporkins
Where would you play him? Cabrera plays first and Martinez is their DH. I hear he can’t play the outfield well at all.
thegreatcerealfamine
What about Rutherford?
CubbieBear23
You sure are trolling the Cubs, are you really a Cards fan disguised as a Yanks fan? I liked the Yanks in the AL until today. You do not deserve Torres and Judge for sure!
spartan-i7
Really good deal for both sides, I wouldn’t call it an overpay at all. Cubs are a contending team and just acquired one of the most consistent pitchers over the past 5 seasons on an affordable contract. They gave up one Top50 prospect.
Bit surprised Schwarber wasn’t involved though, he seems destined to be a DH or 1B.
fisher40
3 years from now the Cubs will probably have one of the worst farm systems
gcg15
Yes. And then they’ll rebuild it again.
CubbieBear23
I am kind of surprised you said 3 years from now since they just sent out their top 2 prospects today?
People forget that Happ was their top prospect who was just moved up in the 1st half, so don’t feel too sorry for the Cubs.
I will take 1 MLB player over 2 top prospects any day, unless you are rebuilding, of course.
Koodle
Alright soooo… white Sox World Series champs 2021?
Bruin1012
Well that puts an end to people thinking the White Sox overplayed there hand with Q. Looks like the White Sox will have he highest rated farm system now.
sellers6
Potential future position players and rotation for the White Sox
C – Zack Collins
1B – Jose Abreu
2B – Yoan Moncada
SS – Tim Anderson
3B – Jake Burger
LF – Eloy Jimenez
CF – Luis Robert
RF – Avisail Garcia
DH – ?
SP1 – Michael Kopech
SP2 – Lucas Giolito
SP3 – Reynaldo Lopez
SP4 – Carson Fulmer
SP5 – Dylan Cease
This is obviously barring any trades, free agent signings, draft picks, or burn outs. Also the possibility that not all of these guys are in the majors at the same time
bobbleheadguru
This team is loaded when you see all of those names together! Well done White Sox!
Joe Kerr
If you mention the word potential, where is the name Harper or Machado on that list? 🙂 They will have plenty of money since all of those guys on the list with the exception of Abreu are cheap.
sellers6
I considered putting Machado at 3rd since Burger might need to play DH anyway but I thought it would be too much speculation to do that
thegreatcerealfamine
You’ve got to be joking…
Richard K
Stay the course look at my stros you can piece together a young and talented team to contend for the future.
RunDMC
Has Rodon been traded or moved to the ‘pen?
Joe Kerr
no
fatelfunnel
Big fan of Alec Hansen, think he will be in rotation. Still have Dunning and Spencer Adams as possible starters. Burdi can hopefully close ..
Losing Q now also helps us lose more games this year. Come on tank for BEER
halos101
this post is ice and all, but this is assuming all of them pan out. You cannot do that
ChiSoxCity
I prefer to see the Sox trade Avisial. He’s having a career year, but I don’t trust it or his long term health. Ship him out while his value is high.
rayrayner
I don’t think Collins will end up at C. Maybe he’ll be the DH. I think Rodon will remain in the starting rotation.
Fun to project. Cubs fans were doing the same thing three years ago. Only Alcantara and Soler did not pan out. But Soler got a ring and got them Wade Davis.
CubbieBear23
Looks good except for SP. So that roster might not make it too far…
Burlycurly
You forgot Rodon and Eloy will be in right and Avi in left Burdi Kahnle closing
realgone2
cubs be desperate
halos101
they added a good pitcher controllable through 2020 to a good young team
2016Chccahmps
Great move by Cubs. Talk about unexpected. Sox getting Eloy Jimenez who will turn out to be a very good player.
Koodle
Soooo… white Sox World Series champs 2021?
halos101
wow what a package. white sox farm system has me excited and i’m not even a fan of them
Bruin1012
Priggs congrats you wanted Eloy and Cease to begin with.
Priggs89
Thanks! Very happy with the return. I guess I might know a little bit more about how baseball works than those select few Yankee fans believe. Going to be exciting to see what Q can do on the North Side.
Bruin1012
Yes I knew Q was getting a big return even if a lot of fans thought differently.
Priggs89
Yah I’ve quickly learned that there’s a gigantic difference in perception vs reality when it comes to Q. But now that he’s with the Cubs, he’ll probably be considered an ace by the beginning of next year. Very under appreciated pitcher by most outside of the South Side.
therealryan
Nice and fair return for the Sox and they did a great job holding out for Jimenez.
This was a good trade for both teams.
Also, hopefully this puts to rest the notion that teams will refuse to trade with division foes or geographical rivals if that is the best trade for both teams. Fans hate certain opponents and even some players might, but GMs and front offices rarely, if ever, do.
CubbieBear23
Agreed. Any GM operating this way by refusing to trade with the Crosstown rival should be fired.
YankeeMan3099
Look at this Yankee hater you spend more time hating on the Yankees and their fans than your own pathetic team oh wait your a White Sux fan that’s why lol Eloy is garbage by the way I hope this trade blows up in the White Sux face and all the prospects turn out to be busts.
Aj5258
I hate to see Q go. He plays the game right. Works hard. Never misses a start. Just a fun guy to watch. I especially hate seeing him go to the Cubs. However, I think the people saying that the Cubs overpaid are very wrong. Q is what the Cubs need. Good prospects are what the Sox need. I wish the Sox were in the position to win and had the system to get an outstanding pitcher at ASB.
The next week or so will be very interesting for the Sox. I think Robertson, Frazier, Melky, Kahnle, Swarzak and maybe even Avi Garcia will all be gone.
Let the kids play.
CubbieBear23
Yes, the Sox prospects should probably not be in the near future esp if they are better than their big-league counterparts. I would not hold Jimenez down too long.
InvalidUserID
How thin does this leave the Cubs farm system? They traded a lot for Chapman last year and now this.
Richard K
Last year the Cubs got a pennant via trade for Chapman. The cubs are still young with key players and they have control of Quintana for a couple of seasons after this year not bad I would say. (Of course am an Astros fan but can still applaud the cubs mgt on this trade I think they did do right Quintana wanted to remain in Chicago and he got his wish).
MILWBrewersFan
As a Brewers fan I love how the Cubs gutted their farm to try and chase us down. Not to mention the Brewers were supposed to be cellar dwellers this year. Clearly the Cubs didn’t think they could win the division without this move. Overpaid in my opinion.
dodgerfan711
True thats a major W for the brew crew to force the cubs to do this. I really hope you guys can hold down the central and pull the upset of a lifetime
jackt
Agreed. I think the Brewers go for a sturdy mid-rotation guy and maybe a bullpen arm. SPs always seem to do a bit better when they’re up 3-0 after the first inning.
bewert
yeah totally, the cubs really had the brewers in mind making this trade. like, for sure that’s why. they really needed a lefty to put up against lucroy and scotter gennett.
jackt
I… What?
CubbieBear23
Brew Crew Troll, I love it! Success brings out the best in fans, ask any Cards fan. I might have to start not liking the BC if this keeps up. I am actually happy for the Brewers this year, they look great and are playing good but it remains to be seen if they can do it for a full year? With the rest of the division looking soft I am glad there is some competition unlike last season which was over at the All Star Break.
classicmixup
Wrong opinion but ok
tharrie0820
They’re gonna regret this so bad
todda1
I think prospects are way overvalued in general. The Cubs gave up a lot, but they got a real solid pitcher. I’m amazed at the heat Theo is getting in these comments.
CubbieBear23
Agreed, hating on Theo is weak, who do people think is a good GM? Theo is basically Zeus among all GMs. What he did in Boston alone was unbelievable. At this point he can do no wrong by me unless he trades away Bryant…
Also, trading away Schwarber at this time by selling low is beyond foolish. He will bounce back and everyone will jump back on the wagon…
trace
Cubs still got ways to go. Lester or Arrieta has to turn back the clock.
Joe Kerr
White Sox will have very little in terms of payroll the next few years, I wonder if they are planning a serious run at Harper or Machado?
dust44
Great trade for the cubs. Eloy is blocked by Heyward, Schwarber, Zobrist. And Cease has a pretty poor health record. Not sure he can b more then a relief option. Quintana gives the cubs a legit 3rd pitcher and with Hendricks coming back they have a very good starting 5
CubbieBear23
I agree except that they have a very good starting 4 once everyone is healthy and Lester and Arrieta work through their issues. This might help them pitch better by giving them a shot in the arm!
Richard K
I think this trade actually makes perfect sense for the cubs as it has been rumored Quintana’s numbers were down as he did not want to leave Chicago(do not know if its true) and would not be surprised if his numbers improve substantially the second half now that he has his wish.
bobbleheadguru
Which team would consider Quintana to be better than Justin Verlander if their salaries were equal? Not many.
Remember, Q has a 4.49 ERA this year if your argument is that JV is having an off year this year after his Cy Young caliber season last year.
So Tigers solution is simple. EAT MONEY to make JVs salary equal Quintana’s and demand 2 top 100 prospects in return.
spartan-i7
Quintana is 6 years younger than Verlander, so going forward I would take him. Plus I don’t think the Tigers want to eat that much of his salary.
bobbleheadguru
By that logic Fulmer is 4 years younger than Quintana, so he should have that much more value?
Tigers should demand two top 100s AND a player like Schwarber for him then?
Because we all know, the only thing that matters is age.
spartan-i7
Well, yes…I’d say Fulmer does have more value than Quintana for several reasons, including age. Fulmer also has more years of control, is cheaper, and likely hasn’t reached his full potential yet. He’s also performing better right now, but doesn’t have Quintana’s track record.
Aj5258
So you’re saying the Tigers need to package JV PLUS 50 million and hope another team will want him even though he’s 4 years older than Q?
bobbleheadguru
Cut JVs salary in HALF, to basically match Qs salary. EVERY team would take JV over Quintana.
Aj5258
Please do that math for me. I must be missing something here. How much is JV owed? How much is Q owed? Divide both by 2. What do we end up with?
bobbleheadguru
If you cut the amount owed to JV by 50% it comes close to matching Q.
nrd1138
Yeah every team wants a guy in JV who has been trending downward with an exception of last season, paid WAY too much, and has a LOAD of mileage on this arm. This over a guy who has only gotten better in the past 5 seasons and is well younger, and lighter on the wallet.. Ok, are you selling a bridge too?
MakeATLGreatAgain
Really glad the Braves didn’t get him.
Not worth it for that many prospects.
spartan-i7
Jimenez and Cease are both in Single-A and likely a couple more years away from making an impact at the MLB level. Also, there is no guarantee that they ever fully reach their potential and become All-stars. They could end up struggling at Double-A next season and fizzling into irrelevancy. Look what’s happening to JP Crawford.
Cubs window of contention is right now. They have a talented and controllable young core that will likely compete for the next several seasons. Acquiring an all-star pitcher like Quintana immediately makes them an even stronger contender.
I don’t get why everyone is bashing the Cubs.
bobbleheadguru
Because they could have gotten gotten Fulmer (league minimum with 4.5 more years of control) for slightly more or JV (at half his salary) for slightly less.
BOTH are better deals than 4.49 ERA Quintana.
bewert
yep, and i mean, everyone and their mothers know ERA is the north star of pitching performance
thegreatcerealfamine
Just delusional prospect nerds. This isn’t the NFL or NBA where draft products come right in to make an impact..minus a very few throughout the years.
A'sfaninUK
I love this post, how many times does a top 10 prospect need to get traded before those nerds realize they really need to stop telling people “so-and-so is untouchable” – EVERY prospect is available in a trade, every. last. one.
ChiSoxCity
I think the assessment of the Cubs’ talent is a bit premature. Compared the best rosters in the MLB this year, the Cubs look average at best. Schwarber is the biggest disappointment so far. If he doesn’t fix his batting stance, the Cubs are probably don’t make the playoffs.
comebacktrail28
As a White Sox fan the Cubs got a great player and a great locker room guy ……… He’ll take the ball every 5th day go 6-7 innings give up 2ER ………. I also think leaving the AL and one of the best hitters parks in baseball along with playing with a Great Defense will elevate Q to one of the top #2 pitchers in baseball while making pennies on the dollar
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I think it’s funny his first start with the cubs will be Sunday at Baltimore.
billysbballz
The truth is nobody really knows these prospects, not BA, not Cheerios, not the troll fan boys, not even me! I trust in my teams GM to build something for the now and the future and when reading articles from outside sources I usually than read what my team sees in the prospect and I’ll trust that. And for most part that usually is the best real gauge. I’m sure Theo is not dealing Eloy if he thought Eloy was part of cubby future based on scouting reports. Doesn’t mean they think he won’t be a star but maybe they aren’t as high on him as they are on Ian Happ and other prospects plus don’t forget the team is loaded with prospects from within.
Cheerios? Thoughts?
bobbleheadguru
But a very similar package could have been shopped to the Tigers for more value.
sammykhalifa
He can do it because he knows that they have a zillion dollar TV contract coming up and can basically do whatever he wants.
CubbieBear23
Yes, the Cubs real top prospects are all playing for the top club already. Let other teams leave their prospects in the minors.
strike4
Trade “value” aside I have to give the WSOX credit for actually making a deal with the Cubs. I wonder if the Sox asked for Happ or Schwarber?
skybluesox
They did not
CubbieBear23
Were you part of the negotiations?
outinleftfield
Guess you have to overpay to trade in city, because that is a huge overpay. 2 top 50 prospects PLUS for an underperforming starter. A #3. WOW!
What will Archer get the Rays this offseason?
spartan-i7
Cease is currently outside Top 50. BA has him at #83, MLB.com at #63.
Bruin1012
One too 10 one top 100 and two others about right for Q who is not a 3. He is a lower tier 1 higher tier 2 over the last three years. That is what advanced metrics say the Cubs got themselves a hell of a pitcher for prospects that may or may not turn out
CNichols
I think its a fair deal in terms of value exchanged, but that doesn’t mean that the cost for cubs wasn’t steep. If you want quality pitching that’s affordable and controllable you generally have to pay an arm and a leg for it and they did.
I’m sort of surprised the Cubs were willing to give up their two last top 100 types to do it. I thought the Sox were going to have trouble finding a team willing to give up two top tier guys, but kudos for them for selling high.
bobveale
So much for the 10 year dynasty after all the prospects they traded the last 2 years. Right, not all prospects make it big…
KB R.
The 10 year window is still open…… it’s just that those young players are already on the team. Here’s to them all truly panning out and them retaining them all. I mean Bryant, Schwarber, Russell, Baez, Contreras, Rizzo, Happ, Almora, Caratini, Hendricks, Heyward, and Lester are all locked up through 2021 season….. most beyond. I mean their entire infield including a backup catcher and 3rd middle infielder are locked up for the next 4 seasons after this one. Heyward ain’t going anywhere until his contract expires after the 2023 season, and is locked up through the 2022 season I believe with Schwarber with the least control….. but doesn’t hit FA until after the 2021 season.
I’m not a fan of this trade either. But not because of what they gave up, but because of what they got in return. Quintana is at best a #2 starter…. maybe he sees his stats improve considerably moving to the NL, but right now he’s just a good #2 at best. Then the fact he’s only controllable for 3 more years after this one…… no, I wouldn’t have coughed up what they did to land him. Hoping this pans out obviously…….. but if Cease pans out for the White Sox he’ll join Archer, Zack Godley, and Paul Blackburn as former Cub minor leaguers who are succeeding elsewhere. Granted Blackburn only has 2 ML starts under his belt, but he has stellar minors numbers and has looked good in his 2 starts in Oakland. In those 2 starts he’s gone a total of 13.2 IP…… more than 6 innings per start…… something Arrieta and even Lester can’t do on a regular basis this year. You can’t develop home grown pitching when you constantly trade all the good ones away. Imagine a rotation of Archer, Hendricks, Godley, Blackburn, and Cease in a few years had they kept them all. Damn. I feel like I’m missing another SP who’s been solid for another team too yet. Another reason this move doesn’t impress me much is because IMO they STILL need to add another SP….. which now means they need to add another starting pitcher in free agency. Arrieta is gone now for sure. So right now they have Lester, Hendricks, and Quintana moving forward after this season. Not exactly an imposing top 3….. good, but not knee shaking good. If they want to win a ton in this 5-6 year window before it slams shut….. which it will because no way can they retain all this talent when they all hit free agency at about the same time, they NEED to add a top tier pitcher yet. Unless Arrieta 1) finds himself and stops sucking, and 2) agrees to a MUCH lower deal than what he thinks he’s worth this rotation still needs help. The Heyward deal is looking dumber and dumber each passing day. Not only would they have a bucket load more money to spend on FA SPs but RF would be open for guys like Happ and Almora to become full-time players. Instead they’re stuck paying him $24M on average per season for the next 6 more seasons. Ugh…… if there is a move that I would crucify Theo for it is the Heyward deal. This trade though might surpass that as Theo’s #1 boner decision.
After this move the Cubs system has to rank in the bottom 5 in the league now if not bottom 3.
CubbieBear23
The rotation you spelled out that won’t happen now was cool. but I disagree about this being a bad trade. Quintana will be fine in the NL, look for him to improve on his numbers esp W-L, ERA and WHIP.
I do agree that they need another SP for next season to replace the upcoming FAs.
hunthutch
This will help cubs finish on top I don’t believe she he brewers have what it takes to hold first over them
dmere31
Can’t help but wonder how the Pirates would be faring with Jung Ho and Marte on the field. Pitching is mediocre though. Cole has to be traded by deadline. This team cannot compete for a WS crown. I could give two hoots about a division title!
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
I honest-to-goodness won a dinner today! I had a bet with one of my buddies that the Cubbies would strike early and land either Quintana or Gray; he said no way.
That’s gonna be a tasty steak.
bobbleheadguru
* Taco Bell.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Maybe if I had lost!! (laughing)
azjack68
This move will do nothing to catch up to the Brewers. They are hitting nearly every pitcher this year. They will hit Quintana too.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Brewers have maybe 3 legit hitters the rest are judy hitters. They don’t have the pitching to hold up.
azjack68
Wrong. You’re not top 6 in mlb offense by having only 3 guys that can hit. Watch and learn.
cubsfan24
The price tag was hefty but I said the same thing after trading Torres last year and that worked out ok. I have all the faith in the world in Theo/Jed
CubbieBear23
This is a better trade than last year’s rental. Even with the result and watching Chapman dominate, I still don’t like that trade esp with the Yanks getting him right back. They overpaid big time for him so that was nice and we got Davis who has worked out better than Chapman would have this season. Nice to see someone else having the faith. Who else would any Cubs fan want running the team?
JFactor
The thing is, these specs are petty far away, even with high upside. The White Sox can wait for them, the Cubs can’t.
Q is a top 30 pitcher in the game, and one of the most constant and reliable lefties we have seen in a long time. I expected he would cost this much. I’m just surprised the Cubs were the team to pay it.
Cubguy13
So it took Theo roughly 3 years to build up the Cubs farm system the first time. With that time frame in mind, the Cubs will have their farm restocked by the time Quintana is a free agent and by the time Cease and Jimenez could be coming up. I think the Cubs are now in the phase where they have most of their roster for the future in place and sprinkling in big free agents to fill the gaps is what’s gonna happen now while replenishing the farm system by the time Bryant and the rest of the core is ready to hit free agency
Wainofan
Wrong. The way they built up their farm system in three years is by tanking and getting top draft picks and selling veterans for prospects. Exactly what the white six are doing. No way Cubs can restock there farm system and win and keep top veterans at same time. Good for cubbies in short term, but farm is now getting depleted. Very tough to rebuild it and compete at same time.
Cubguy13
You are right about them tanking and having good picks cuz of that. Totally wasn’t even thinking about that aspect. I guess Theo is going to have to get creative with trades in the future to bring back some prospects I guess
rayrayner
Cubs were already in the tank (lost 90 games in 2011) when Theo joined them. They needed a complete rebuild.
Priggs89
Well his “3 year build up” included losing a ton of games and getting top 5 picks… That’s not going to happen again (hopefully for them). It’ll be a lot harder the second time around, but if anyone can do it, Theo is probably the guy…
philsark94
Seems like Theo is doing what he did in Boston: making big moves that are induced by pressure from the fans. Hope this pans out for the Cubs because it sure seems like things are going to pan out for the ChiSox.
firstbleed
YES, Brewers made this happen by putting pressure on the Cubs! As a Brewers fan love this move for a long term perspective for draining the Cubs farm.
A'sfaninUK
Says the guy whos GM is about to be bent over the table by Billy Beane, lol
billysbballz
Says the guy who is use to getting bent over the table by the guy he alleges will be doing the bending!
Just another Bender is your new moniker. Get use to it because acting like a troll has its consequences.
A'sfaninUK
Its funny how saying “Dont think that a top 10 prospect wont get traded or is untouchable” is trolling, when it happens IRL over and over and over….
Newsflash: because you dont agree with something doesnt mean its trolling. Trolling would be posting Mike Trout for Jacoby Ellsbury with some dumb logic behind it.
Also thinking prospects are = or more valuable to MLB players is more trolling than anything Ive ever written.
azjack68
David Stearns will be GM of the year.
Mak83
Umm– If I am a brewers fan I would be a little less concerned about 3 years down the road and more concerned about the fact that the team chasing you just added a top of the rotation starter. do the cubs have a current position player older that 27? Heyward maybe. They are pretty well set in that dept and all you brewers fans who were calling Q a number 3 and considering every minor leaguer untouchable are in for a rude awakening. As a Sox fan, I am very happy with the return but it reflects the value given– and the Sox gave up a lot.
Cardinals17
Standard procedure. Cubs strike a deal to help themselves. The Cardinals do nothing so it also helps the Cubs.
FBA17
Over pay for a #3 starter but that’s the going rate.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
2 prospects and 2 throw ins for 3+ years. Sounds like underpay to me.
A'sfaninUK
Its a slight underpay, White Sox should have gotten Candelario too instead of the no-namer.
azjack68
Waaaay over payed. The Cubs gave up at least 20+ years of future ML service for 3 1/2 years for a guy who plays every 5th day.
therealryan
Just stop. Most likely at least 2 of these guys don’t even make it to MLB and won’t make an impact if they even do. The only guy out of these that you can say is likely to make an MLB impact at this point is Jimenez. Cease has the potential to be an impactful player, however it’s not a slam dunk by any means. He could very easily get injured or only develop into a middle RP. This was a good trade by both teams.
azjack68
Jimenez will have a 15 year career easily. Cubs got absolutely HOSED.
Djones246890
20+ years??? Rarely anyone is playing that long, anymore.
Also, no guarantees that even top prospects will pan out. And Jimenez is blocked, as well. He has zero path up to the big squad.
Cubs are geared to win now. They have a window. Many more great prospects will join their system in the coming years. It was a good and necessary move.
Bryzzo2016
I’m shocked because all the rumors regarding guys like Q, Archer, Sonny Gray, Fulmer were saying that young ML talent would be required. I was afraid Russell, Baez and/or Schwarber would have to be a part of any deal. Jimenez and Cease are legit prospects, but neither have even been tested above High A ball. Always high bust probability for prospects that haven’t even made it to AA yet. That being said, I do like them both. Another great trade for Theo!
toby312
Correct. Why no Almorora or happ or castillo? Not all 3 but one maybe plus lower level suspects?
A'sfaninUK
So if Quintana with a 4.01 FIP and 4.49 ERA on a contract of about $33M over 3.5 years is worth a top 5 prospect, a top 80 prospect and 2 more, what’s Sonny Gray and his 3.58 FIP, 4.00 ERA and is getting paid (estimating) under $20M for 2.5 years worth? Gotta be a top 10, a top 50. a top 100 and one more, right? The money thing is huge.
bobbleheadguru
… and what about Fulmer, who has 4.5 years left of control?
A'sfaninUK
He’s like the ONE guy who actually wouldn’t be worth it if you’re talking prospects-only but I’d think a team would trade an established star for him along with prospects though.
MahatmaGagne
I want the Dodgers to go after Fullmer…….Alvarez, Calhoun, Verdugo and Stripling………maybe a lower level prospect as well would get this done. Two midseason top 50 guys plus Calhoun and Stripling and say Oaks
Thoughts?
bobbleheadguru
I would do it. But I would make the Dodgers take Sanchez (or VMART) and his albatross contract.
A'sfaninUK
Need to add Pederson to that. Like I said, Fulmer’s worth your top 3-4 prospects PLUS an established young star.
therealryan
Unfortunately for the A’s, GMs don’t only look at half a season worth of stats. You’re going to end up very disappointed if you think the A’s will receive a larger package than this for Sonny Gray.
Just John
Probably almost identical to what Q returned the Sox (if not slightly less): a top 10, top 100 and 1 or 2 fillers. I gotta think that Q’s $9.5M/yr at 3.5 years and Gray’s $8M/yr at 2.5 years evens out when you add in the Q’s dependability factor. Q hasn’t missed a start in 5 years.
A'sfaninUK
Q is owed around $33M (I took a guess at what the Cubs are paying for 2017, and guessed low, it might be more). Gray is still in arby so unless he goes off he’s only going to be around $20-ish mill.
3.5 years of Q at $33ish million
2.5 years of Gray at $20ish million
I think the money balances out the trade value honestly. Statistically career-wise they have almost identical ERAs + FIPs and Gray is having the better season currently, but comes with less durability.
raef715
but Gray doesnt have the consistency/health Quintana has shown.
desertbull
Too bad they would not take Schwarber instead of Jimenez.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The White Sox found the one (and only) team that didn’t need Quintana to be a #1 but could still pay for him like a #1. Good for them.
But, Arrieta’s running out of juice and the Cubs needed pitching and they got it. Good move for them.
jdgoat
Best take in this thread
chitownsox11
It is a good return for Q but as a sox fan I’m still extremely pissed they were in a position to trade sale, eaton, and Q. All in their prime and signed to great long term deals. No other teams are trading talent like that all in the same year.
The prospects are great but they still need to pan out. But I think most importantly jerry needs to open up his wallet when they are ” contending”.
When they are going for it that payroll better $140-150 plus. If the royals can afford a payroll like that when trying to contend, so can the sox.
The sox are still one of the only teams in baseball to not sign $100 million contract. Jerry is extremely cheap and has overall been a terrible owner of the team.
Frustrating watching players like sale, eaton, and Q go, when every other franchise would be trying to win with them. The front office/ ownership incompetence has been brutal.
MahatmaGagne
As a Dodgers fan I don’t see how the WhiteSox front office is incompetent. Getting rid of Dombrowski was key, he completely drained your farm system for older players and that plan didn’t work. Now Dombrowski is completely draining the Red Sox system, ridiculous. Quintana and Robertson are your two pieces that will add to the rebuild.
This new rebuild has the White Sox with the best farm system 10 fold…….they will be contenders within two years Absolute high end positional players and deep pitching prospects. I commend the Sox front office, should be a quick turn around with a legitimate chance to contend for years
chitownsox11
Dombriski hadn’t been with the white sox since the 80, so I have no idea what you are talking about in terms of that.
The white have for many years under jerrry reinsdorf been known to be cheap on the international market and ameature draft. And also never have spent a lot on the mlb payroll.
While they do have good prospects now, no ones know how it will pan out. And they still will need to spend when the time comes.
Your comments show you know very little about the white sox.
El Duderino
Dombrowski was recently GM of the Tigers, not the White Sox.
Same division though, so you get a star for trying! *
MahatmaGagne
Oooops…….thanks for the star lol
White Sox still have the best farm system. Great job Hahn lol
Reinsdorf, YOU SUCK!!
padresfan
You’re thinking of the tigers
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Adam Eaton isn’t even that good. The white Sox gave up nothing for him got the Nats #1 pitching prospects in return. They flipped him and cashed out quick.
jdgoat
What are you talking about? Eatons a top 15 outfielder
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
No, no he’s not. That’s like saying Cody Ross was a.great player. If he’s so grrat why did the dbacks sell so low for him? And the white Sox got one of the best pitchers according to baseball murica?
toby312
Now if they DFA Lackey then it’s larger than the side view mirror reflection? Addition by subtraction. My question is with this trade and Sale trade why no major league ready players involved in both trades? At least we didn’t have to give back our own first round pick for butler!:)
rmullig2
I don’t think this package is any better than what they gave up for Chapman. If the White Sox can’t get significantly more for 3+ years of Quintana than the Yankees got for 3 months of Chapman then why is everybody think they got such a great deal?
bakadane
I agree with you.I just noticed your comment exactly before I post same comment.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
It’s about the same 2 prospects for Chapman
2 prospects for Quintana. Not too shabby. I know it’s 8 for 2 but 4players were just throw ins.
raef715
it was really just one prospect for Chapman. they threw in Warren who was worthless to Cubs but has thrived back with Yanks, and McKinney, who really cant be considered a prospect at this point.
macka
Hopefully Quintana can hit too since the rest of team sucks scoring runs
skybluesox
Haha. He just had his first at bats of the season last weekend. He did have a sac fly.
CubbieBear23
I like the trade and believe in a front office that just won the World Series.
This trade benefits both clubs as the Cubs are a contender even if some think not and the Sox are not so smart play for both.
Also, Quintana should fare better on a better team. His numbers are his numbers but lets see how he does with hopefully some run support. If nothing else, his record should go up and ERA continue to go down.
This is how I see the rotation now as follows (just a guess since I am not a GM like Caseys Partner and others):
Lester
Arrieta (holds onto 2nd, moving him down is short sighted)
Quintana (#2 next season with Arrieta’s departure)
Hendricks
Montgomery (Lackey’s injury will linger, you will see)
I am interested in this the most. I will miss Jimenez but there was really no spot for him in the roster right now so good for him and the Sox!
IMO Both GMs look good here, well done.
Priggs89
“Arrieta (holds onto 2nd, moving him down is short sighted)”
Uhhh… what? Arrieta has been pretty mediocre for quite a while now. Leaving him at #2 is living in the past. The only reason it makes sense is because it splits up the lefties. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Hendricks and Arrieta flip by the end of the year (to keep the lefties split still).
BigB
So when did the Cubs front office become so bad. I think they have done pretty well lately. I think this is a win for both teams.
padresfan
Contender replacing people that are leaving soon
They got every position locked up. They just need pitching depth
padresfan
That was quite unexpected
everlastingdave
The Cubs are now better suited to chase down the Brewers this year, and absorb the decline and eventual loss of Arrieta. The supply of pitchers who could help with that was and is limited, and the Cubs probably got the best one. But as a Sox fan I think you can say the same thing for them: elite prospects that could be had in trade are also a limited supply, and they added yet another one. This is awesome.
MooseMichaels
Just my two cents. The Cubs overpaid for a number 3 guy. It may be worth it, it probably won’t. I see lots of folks saying it’s the pitching or that’s it’s the hitting. Truth is…it’s both. The league has adjusted to Bryant and Rizzo. Their pitching is in decline. Heyward is showing he wasn’t worth the deal he got and that letting Fowler go was a horrible move. As it is with most WS Champions, you win by getting hot in October so if this team makes it to the Postseason they could win again but likely won’t. Repeat championships as incredibly hard.
Mak83
when you say a number 3 guy, what do you actually mean? a number three guy on the greatest rotation ever or the 61st best pitcher in baseball? If its the latter, list 20 better pitchers let alone 60. Better yet name some teams that have two better pitchers. If it’s the former, stop following baseball– stick to somethng you understand. I can tolerate the debate as to whether he is a 1 or 2, though i find it arbitrary (value is value). Calling him a 3– SMFH.
Bruin1012
How many stupid fans are going to call this guy a 3 he is not. Theo would not have given up the prospects for a 3. He is a really good 2 lower end 1. No he is not an Ace but he is damn good pitcher that played for a really bad team. The catchers were bad the defense was bad the park is tough to pitch in and still he was easily within the top 20 pitchers in WAR the last three years how does that make him a 3? Wow even had one clown call him a 4 just amazing at how little people really know about this guy.
Altanta Barves
Bad deal for Chicago.
nccubsfan 2
It’s a “heads I win tails you lose” situation
El Duderino
Does that mean it was also a good deal for Chicago?
MahatmaGagne
GHENGISHAHN!!
Cubguy13
Maybe now the Cubs flip Arrieta and Lackey to a contender for some prospects and turn around and ship those prospects and Russell to Detroit for Fulmer and Avila while Montgomery becomes their #5 the rest of this season? Just a thought cuz I definitely don’t think the Cubs are done making moves
Mikel Grady
I like your thinking.
JKB 2
Lackey brings back nothing
kidaplus
You know the prospect fan boy bs is getting out of hand when a team getting 28 yo left hander at 30 mil for 3 years who is 13th in active era (1000 IP) and has 3 top 8 war finishes in AL hitters park with terrible D behind him, who has never missed a start and would cost 100 mil + on the FA market for an A-ball bat who has never faced MLB pitching and a Tommy John guy “got fleeced”.
Christ.
Bruin1012
lol very well said.
CubbieBear23
Good info, I liked the trade before this post, now I love it!
Mak83
this is a little overboard.. Cubs gave up a lot to get a lot. I doubt you had these feelings about Jimenez and Cease while they were in the Cubs system. Cubs paid appropriate value. Have to also give credit to the Sox for holding firm on what they wanted in return. Not easy to get your asking price when everyone thinks you have to sell.
kidaplus
I’m not a cubs fan
Cubs are defending champ and serious contenders for the next several years. They have serious pitching issues now and questions that will only grow after jake and lackey leave and lester ages.
they have nothing close to Q ready to go in minors. Have plenty of hitters.
trading a couple A ball players who won’t be doing anything for the next few years, championship window years, for a proven stud at a position that is by far your greatest area of need is a no brainer.
kidaplus
m not a cubs fan
Cubs are defending champ and serious contenders for the next several years. They have serious pitching issues now and questions that will only grow after jake and lackey leave and lester ages.
they have nothing close to Q ready to go in minors. Have plenty of hitters.
trading a couple A ball players who won’t be doing anything for the next few years, championship window years, for a proven stud at a position that is by far your greatest area of need is a no brainer.
fatelfunnel
Was hoping for Tucker and Martes from the Astros for Q. So what is the better combo?
Tucker + Martes or Jimenez + Cease
Mak83
I prefer Jimenez + Cease — Jimenez seems a bit more of a can’t miss. Martes closer than Cease, but sox have a track record of developing pitchers.
anson's cap
The White Sox answered your question today.
JKB 2
The WS did not answer the question since Houston would not make the deal
LA Sam
WOW! Overpaid 4 nice #3 starter when he’s on!
LA Sam
Long term think I’d rather have Eloy over Schwarber….higher ceiling, younger, controllable yrs, monster power!
SixFlagsMagicPadres
A crazy comment section in a post about the first big mega trade of the season. Why am I not surprised?
anson's cap
Does this trade of Eloy Jimenez signal the Cubs desire to acquire Harper in the next off-season?
LA Sam
Good point, know those r the rumblings….he wants to go to Chitown….
JKB 2
OMG the only “signal” from the Cubs is they wanted to acquire a young controllable good starting pitcher for the short and long term. A “signal” they have been giving for several years and the “signal” was they kept saying it! Not exactly a signal.
And Eloy Certainly was NOT blocking the Cubs from getting Harper if they want to go after him
thestevilempire
Cubs…why? Y’all went through all those years of building a strong farm system to do this? This move is like saving your money for 3 years and then buying a flip phone!! Sure, it will get the job done but he’s obsolete by the time these prospects get a full time shot. Plus, If Addison Russell don’t feel the pressure from below then he won’t have the incitive to get better! This is why you build a farm system, so if one guy lags in development,the next guy pushes them to either A.) Get better B.) Fail or C.) Play well enough to replace them.
Priggs89
How are Eloy Jimenez or Dylan Cease pressuring Addison Russell from below?
thestevilempire
I should clarify that I’m using Addison Russell as an example, not that those players can replace him, more so to his below average play
BSPORT
They just got a # 2 pitcher for the next 3 years at a good rate for a bunch of guys that may never even make it up. I say in Theo Cubs fans should trust. He’s smart enough and can build good farm system but they are a win now team. Nobody will ever miss what he just traded for a guy that should help give you a chance to win for the next three years and slides in this year as their number two pitcher.
gcg15
Without this trade here is the Cubs rotation next year. Lester, Hendricks, Pick A Player 1, Pick A Player 2, Pick A Player 3. And it isn’t like there’s a lot of high end pitchers in this year’s FA class. With this trade they get better immediately and they have locked up a solid 2/3 type starter for the next 3.5 years for 31MM USD.
If the Cubs falter out of the gates here the next two weeks I would not be surprised to see them trade away Davis, Arrieta and/or Lackey as well. All are FA’s next year. All three of those guys would warrant good returns from contending teams.
On the other hand if they contend, they stay the course, look to resign Davis and let Arrieta and Lackey go on their way (having cleared out a ton of salary to play around in the fringes of the market).
Yes, they gave up a great prospect and a good one with injury history. But the move makes a lot of sense when you look at their needs and the cost control they get with this guy.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They aren’t trading any of them. There’s still a slight chance Arrieta signs short term hes not getting his 25mil per year. Maybe 15mil aav something like Samardzija got from the giants. If he does doesnt re-sign I’d say he goes to the rangers or Astros. Being that he’s from Texas. I want the cubs to re-sign Davis. Short term. 3/45 with an opt out after the 2nd year.
JKB 2
Why would you offer an opt out?
Solaris611
I think the Pirates will trade Cole by the deadline. They’re being coy just to drive up the price as much as possible. Pittsburgh is where pitchers go to get fixed. If Searage can’t get them right, nobody can, so the best route for PIT is to trade Cole before he backslides any further.
Rallyshirt
Good thing Q didn’t go very far away, we love him here!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
The the prospects had to travel further than Quintana.
Priggs89
Actually, all the Myrtle Beach guys just had to switch dugouts.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I was thinking the cubs players were going from Iowa. Honestly I wasn’t sure where their single A ball team played.
Henduland
Sonny Gray should demand a similar haul. The Yankees for example would have to give up Frazier, Chance Adams, and a fringe prospect just for Gray. The Brewers: Brinson and Luis Ortiz. If Alonso or Madsen are included, then the Yankees have to throw in another top 100 prospect like Sheffield to round out the deal. If Cashman or a GM says no, too bad. Gray is not a free agent and there is no need to trade him this July.
YankeeMan3099
Frazier is not available its funny how everyone on here says Frazier won’t be that good but yet his name is the first one I always see when people make trade proposals with other teams lol doesnt make sense, but yeah he’s not going anywhere we have other prospects we can trade aside from Frazier and Torres keep dreaming though.
A'sfaninUK
People say that because the Yankees are loaded with OFs and he’s the highest ranked prospect. He’s not essential to the future like Judge is.
YankeeMan3099
I disagree he is essential to the future that’s why Cashman refused to trade him to the White Sox in deals for Chris Sale and now Quintana clearly the Yankees like him enough to turn down deals involving him otherwise if that wasn’t the case he would have been traded already.
YankeeMan3099
By the way Sonny Gray is not worth giving up Torres or Frazier so if that’s what Oakland is expecting then its fine we dont do business with them there’s other teams out there who we can deal with to fill needs on the team. Also if Frazier is ranked as the highest prospect then how come Dustin Fowler got called up before him? That’s because prospect ranking means nothing.
BSPORT
Cashman should be going for a strictly pitching haul this year. Pineda ,Ellsbury , Headly , Hicks, shreve, Tanaka. Trade Tanaka then have him opt out and Yankees can resign next year. Almost like the Chapman deal.
Henduland
Why would anyone want Tanaka?
JKB 2
Typical Yankee fan thinks Tanaka brings anything back and then he wants to resign Tanaka for big bucks since he is “having him opt out” so then you would pay him even more money! Haha hilarious
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Honestly didn’t expect the Sox to get this much a haul. If someone told me they’d deal him to the Cubs, I’d have hoped for Eloy, but getting Cease as well is just awesome. Haven’t heard of the other guys, but this is great. Plus, it helps them sink lower in the standings this year. As for Quintana, maybe he finally gets to pitch a meaningful game now like Sale will.
Pilzbrydroboy
Yes great deal for the sox. Now the sox should have an easier time getting a top 3 pick in the draft next year …. and should make a big offer to a big time free agent like Manny Machado who is very young and fits well with the rebuild plans
Pilzbrydroboy
I dont like it….. i Luv it. Luv it. Luv it uhh ohhhh
vinscully16
… good deal both ways.
seth3120
The Cubs paid a lot. But they weren’t going to get starting pitching help from within anytime soon. The Cubs are in win now and the next few years mode. They still have every opportunity to right the ship this year and they know a couple of the guys in the rotation won’t be there next year so they got a guy they could control a few years. They’ll still have to add either through another trade or free agency but this was a good start. They paid a lot but the time needed for those prospects to develop didn’t fit their time table. They can’t not address the glaring needs of today with a team like they have. You get better now and you give yourself the best chance to win. Obviously they won’t be picking as high in the draft or have the benefit of being sellers for prospects but they seem to evaluate talent well and if you can do that you can always have a good system
nrd1138
The Cubs have the better end of this deal right now. Prospects are just that: Prospects, they may do great; they may fall flat on their face. The only reason this looks good for the Sox is Hahn, and the Sox scouting dept, looks like they have an idea of how to get the good players. Eloy is a hugely rated prospect, but he is in A ball right now. It does not matter what people project him to be, if he is hitting .227 with 2 homers in AA or AAA a couple of years from now people praising Hahn will be using some stupid logic that Hahn got ‘fleeced’. No, he took a gamble and lost. It happens. By all accounts Eloy should be good, but IMO getting the Cubs best pitching prospect is not saying much considering how devoid of pitching quality they have in the system right now.
The Cubs now have a solid #2 type pitcher. This talk of a #3 are fan boys talking him down for whatever reason. ‘Ohhh his ERA is 4.49’, for three months of this season vs the past 5 years of pretty good numbers, considering the keystone cops routine in WS org for the past 5 years with clown Kenny’s boy (Robin Ventura) stinking up the place. Never mind being in the AL in a bandbox of a stadium and having 60+ NDs, mostly due to being on teams with an anemic offense. Chris Sale has shown what happens when you get to a team that can actually hit the ball. While Q’s numbers may not be as eye popping as Sale’s, my guess is if the Cubs start hitting like everyone thinks they will, that Q should rattle off a lot of W’s for the rest of the season.
Hey, could Quintana be ‘done’ and only gets worse? Anything is possible, but after 5 years of pretty good numbers, it is doubtful.
The funny thing is that if Eloy is everything scouts and other GMs are projecting him to be, and he is up in 2-3 years, the Sox can bring him up and Quintana could be a FA.to return to the Sox.
jameyc
i’ll play devil’s advocate,,prospects are just prospects? well past production is past production and that is what the cubs paid a heavy price for. numbers never lie and he has a ton of innings on that arm. so what is the cubs team era now with quintana? 4.23?
csamson11
I like the move for both sides, to be honest. The Cubs desperately needed controllable pitching, and its likely the longer they waited the more they would have to pay to get it, and the less likely they would be to actually get a deal done were they to get into a bidding war with another team. It may look like an overpay now to some, but I don’t think it is, nor do I think it will look like an overpay for long. Eloy Jimenez seems to be a can’t miss prospect, and it should be expected that he would be on the move in a deal for someone like Quintana, though I will admit I didn’t think he would be traded as I didn’t think they’d be this aggressive and get Quintana. Dylan Cease may be a great starter, or he may be an average bullpen pitcher with a big arm and a long list of injuries to match, so I don’t think him being in the deal is that big of a deal when Quintana comes with 3 more years of control. As I said above, I believe it was an aggressive move (which is why some may consider it an overpay) that allowed the Cubs to avoid other teams joining in and driving up the price.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Teams in win-now mode almost always overpay at the time of the deal. Some of them become great deals for the win-now team when the prospects bust, but there’s usually a premium because of desperation. That said, the Cubs got the best available starter and the top guy they gave up they don’t really need. I think the Sox win this one long-term, but if Q helps the Cubs to another title before his deal is up, I don’t think any Cubs fans will complain.
amishthunderak
I guess the Cubs still owed the White Sox one after that George Bell for Sammy Sosa trade.
Mikel Grady
Quintana 1-0 for Cubs. Pitched a gem. Jimenez in the lineup tonight for Sox today?
buzdon
To those of you (on either side of the issue), if you feel this was a bad deal, you should try having Dave Stewart as a GM …