2:17pm: The Brewers’ interest in Kinsler will likely hinge on fellow second baseman Eric Sogard’s health, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal tweets. Sogard is returning from a DL stint caused by an ankle injury. He’s hit brilliantly in 162 plate appearances this season, with a .331/.438/.485 line thus far.
10:54am: The Brewers are exploring the possibility of trading for Tigers second baseman Ian Kinsler, ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets. The Brewers have also recently been connected to Tigers trade possibilities like Justin Verlander and Justin Wilson, so it’s possible a deal for Kinsler could be one of many trade scenarios involving Detroit they’re considering.
The 35-year-old Kinsler is currently hitting .244/.324/.397 while receiving typically above-average reviews for his defense. Current Brewers second baseman Jonathan Villar has struggled this season, batting just .223/.287/.350 after a breakout season in 2016. Acquiring Kinsler might allow the Brewers to move Villar back into the utility role he occupied last year. The extension Kinsler signed with the Rangers in 2012 is front-loaded, so it’s less of a concern than it might typically be for a payroll-conscious team like the Brewers — Kinsler makes just $11MM this season, plus a $5MM buyout or a very reasonable $10MM option for 2018.
The 52-47 Brewers are somewhat of a surprise contender this year and are only now emerging from a retooling phase. They’re also in the midst of a six-game losing streak. Seen from that perspective, they might be somewhat reluctant to deal top young talent for a veteran like Kinsler. When they’ve contended in the recent past, though, they have not been shy about paying high prices for stars like Zack Greinke (for whom they gave up a very costly package of Lorenzo Cain, Jake Odorizzi, Alcides Escobar and Jeremy Jeffress) and CC Sabathia (who cost them Michael Brantley). Their outlook on such trades might be somewhat different now with David Stearns replacing Doug Melvin at GM, but then again perhaps not, since they’ve also been strongly connected to Athletics ace Sonny Gray.
This doesn’t make sense to me, he’s gonna cost a top prospect and he’s declining because of age. The Brewers just need to forget about this season and focus on 2018 and beyond. If they are gonna make a move and trade a high level prospect it needs to be for pitching like Gray, Ramos, or Brad hand
It’s very possible that Tigers won’t need a top prospect to trade Kinsler. Keep in mind that Kinsler is 35 and only has 1.5 years left on his deal.
On another note Kinsler has to be one of the most underrated players of his generation, he’s not quite a HOF level player but a tier below and has had a overlooked fantastic career
Yeah and the Tigers might take that into consideration and ask for a high prospect like Brinson. But I don’t see that happening unless Wilson is involved
The tigers would be lucky to get Brett philips for kinsler straight up. Brinson is not even close for kinsler.
Haha. Wouldn’t give up either one straight up for Kinsler.
He is more of a HOFer than Biggio!
haters gonna hate
Put a bar of soap in that filthy mouth…
Well, Biggio does have, like 1300 more hits than Kinsler and his career rate stats are better but besides that, sure. Kinsler will probably finish with around 2100 hits or so, it will put him in the Pedroia class but without the championships or MVP.
That may be your opinion but Biggio was the better hitter for sure. He maintained a .281 batting average despite the decline in later years and Kinsler is already only a .275 hitter. They have similar power but Biggio has stole almost 200 more bases than Kinsler and Ian’s base stealing days are done.
Damn straight!
Seriously? Kinsler is gutsy and can bring the divisional title to Milwaukee.
This is true. Kinsler is gutsy and gritty. However, hes having a downish year altho having an excellent defensive year
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That is true but you do not trade for how good his career was. Fact is right now he is not too good. So depending on the cost of the trade Brewers may consider it but they should not deal a prospect of significance
Forgot about this season when it’s almost 2/3 over and they’re in first place? I’m not sure he would cost a top prospect considering they have Dixon Machado who’s ready for a bigger role and trading him would reduce payroll.
Forget about this season? They’re in 1st place. I mean did everyone think they were just going to run away with this division and stay 5.5 games up the rest of the way? Obviously not, but to say they should just throw in the towel while being in first is ridiculous. They can be cautious and still try to get in the playoffs.
If you think about it what are the odds that they actually win the division? The pitching is terrible if they are gonna acquire anything would you go for Kinsler? Probably not the need Sonny Gray he’s controllable and a ace type pitcher
Significantly less than what it was but that doesn’t mean you thrown in the towel now. You can be cautious. I think where we differ is the value of Kinsler. JD Martinez is the better player and didn’t get a single top 100 prospect. Why would the Brewers pay more for Kinsler?
“Pitching is terrible”. They were ranked 10th. A terrible pitching staff doesn’t get you a top 10 rank and a first place team.
I’m a Brewers fan…they’re not winning the division. Trading for Kinsler would be dumb
Me too and I agree. They are at least a year ahead of schedule in the rebuild and aren’t World Series contenders this year. That’s what they should be after, kinsler doesn’t line up with the timeline at all unless he comes for cheap.
Also, I bet villar sure feels dumb turning down that extension boy does he look bad.
A player of Kinsler’s age and having an off season, he won’t garner a “top” prospect. Two mid level prospects should be adequate. That said, Kinsler has a limited no-trade clause in his contract and may not accept a trade. He tried to parlay that into an extension this past off season. Tigers would like to make room for Machado so they are motivated to move Kinsler if there is a market for him, but there has not been much of a market for middle IF so far this year.
He can only block a trade to 10 teams(one of which is confirmed to be the Dodgers). May not effect this trade if it is happening.
I don’t think he fetches a top prospect, but ought to get something semi decent. Detroit has a poor-ish(but improving) farm. If they’re able to get a position prospect that would slot into their top 15, remembering that the Tigers have a poor farm after their top 5 prospects, and then some sort of fringe or low A type prospect… I assume they’d do it.
Kinsler’s defense is still really solid and, while having a down year, is still putting up decent numbers… But he is obviously not going to be a part of the Tigers when they’re ready to compete again and Machado deserves a solid look.
I agree 2 mid level prospects should do it and in that case it would be worth it for Milwaukee to bring the veteran presence. Upgrade the position a bit. Control for next year and have Villar in the utility role
The Brewers are in first place and any time you have a good shot at the playoffs you have to take it. Next year the Cubs could be a 100 win team again and then maybe some guys don’t pan out or get injured.
Kinsler is having a 3.5+ WAR season. That’s not as good as he had in previous years but still good. He might decline in the future but the Brewers would only need him to be good this year and next.
The Brewers could use some veteran leadership. They have only 3 players who’ve played in the post-season and one of them, Travis Shaw, played only 1 game.
I’m sure Kinsler can be had for lesser prospects.
Kinsler? Verlander ? The brewers shouldn’t trade for any of those at least don’t give top prospects for them. If you can get kinsler for a lower minor leaguer I guess but the brewers are alresdy starting to slip , it’s nice to hear they want to do well but I don’t think this is the year to .
Yeah they are going in the right direction in their rebuild, there is no need to destroy it and trade key chips when they are so close to being major contenders probably by next season. But I will say they do need a starter that they can call an ace which is why I think they should trade for Gray or try and sign Darvish in the Offseason
Yes look at what the Tigers got for a premier hitter in Martinez. Brewers wouldn’t have to give up very much for Kinsler. Would probably be more of a salary dump for them,
A lot of that had to do with lack of a real market need for corner OFs like JD Martinez this year. If you check out the fangraphs article there’s just not as many teams in contention and few of them can easily soak up another OF.
I think the market for bats in general is going to be light. How many contenders are looking for 2B or middle infield help at all? The Brewers are the only ones that could be called contenders right now who have a clear need at 2B, and they have a low enough payroll that they could absorb Kinsler’s contract. Honestly I think the Brewers could have him for a low level lottery ticket or two and the willingness to eat the remaining salary. Not that I want him on the Brewers. Just saying they’re in a buyer’s market.
I’m not suggesting Kinsler would cost anything amazing, but I think(or at least hope)Avila is smart enough to realize he doesn’t have to trade Kinsler for a few lotto ticket/fringe prospects like he did with JD.
Kinsler ought to get a slightly better return than JD(more control, no NEED to trade him with his reasonable salary), but I don’t expect anything breathtaking
That’s true, but the market for 2B is also slim. The difference here is that, unlike JD, Kinsler is not walking away at the end of the season. He’s signed for next year. If Detroit isn’t offered enough, they won’t trade him.
Say what you will about the JD trade, but they got more value than the 4th round pick a QO would have gotten them. I am yet to here of that “better” offer they received for JD, nor has any other rental OF changed hands. They may have got, while they could get.
Kinsler is signed for 2018 if his option is picked up.
It won’t be a lot. They didn’t get much in return for JD Martinez
I wonder if this would be a package deal for Wilson and Kinsler. Detroit is supposedly trying to cut payroll.
Yeah but kinsler is not really a payroll issue. If you’re not getting anything decent for him then it makes no sense to move him.
Well he’s not making Zimmerman type money but they need to cut payroll and where else can you do that? Nobody is taking Zimmerman unless you eat a whole bunch of money, no one will take Verlander right now unless you eat a whole bunch of money. Upton could opt out which would help but not a whole lot of options to cut payroll.
Kinsler+Zimmermann = get Kinsler for cheap by taking on Zimmermann.
Kinsler should be pretty cheap regardless of including Zimmerman. Look at what they got for Martinez who’s better. Zimmerman is owed like 75 mill yet, no one is taking Zimmerman unless you include a crazy amount of money. He has so much negative trade value it’s ridiculous.
They want to get below the luxury tax next year which means saving about 20 M. Pelfry, KRod, JD Martinez and Lowe come off the books this year. They can save another 12M by buying out Sanchez. They don’t need to panic. They do need cheap quality replacements. Machado, Norris and a few relievers are the only one they have.
@Baumer
I can tell you don’t follow the Tigers. Attrition is dropping their payroll. Both Kinsler and J Wilson are cheap contracts. Replacing them in FA will cost more than you are paying them now. Machado is another Iggy like bat, and is not the answer at 2B. If they don’t receive an asset back, there is no need to move them.
Well you would definitely get an asset back for Wilson no question. But for Kinsler you probably wouldn’t get much.
I mean if you are looking to rebuild, trading the 35 year old for multiple guys that make your top 15 team prospects should be something they do
Wonder if Jordan Zimmermann, WI local and the guy who took a pay cut to stay closer to home, could be included too?
you’re not allowed to take a paycut in MLB, and Zimmermann has been terrible for a little while now
he’s saying he took a paycut to go to Detroit to stay closer to home chief.
Sorry, “took an under market deal”.
He’s been terrible but also was a lifetime NLer who moved to the AL and stunk, like so many have. He’d be a big time bounceback candidate in the NL. Detroit sending over like $30M probably gets the job done, and the Brewers could get Kinsler without giving up anything big because of taking on Zimmermann too. I know its not the best move for a contender, but worst case scenario would be hiding Z in the pen. I’d think moving to his home state – a big reason why he signed with nearby Detroit – might ignite him again.
If the Tigers did not have money, they would not have the payroll they have now. What they lack is prospects. Don’t expect a bad contract throw in to save on prospects. No reason to tear down if they have nothing to build with.
Nobody is saying they don’t have money, they are saying they need to cut payroll. There is a difference. And this is no secret as people have been talking about it for awhile now. So Avila might not have a choice and have to package a bigger contract for a lesser return. No one really knows for sure.
They will be under lux. Tax next season without trading anyone.
THey have 42 million coming off book at end of year
There’s a difference between cutting payroll because they don’t have the money and cutting payroll because the owner spent like a drunk sailor trying to win a championship.
@ Baumer
The team, and GM Avila, have said that they expect to get under the cap, but want to get younger and more athletic. Never did they indicate lowering payroll to a specific level, other than under the cap. If you read the replies you have gotten, you would understand that they will be under the cap when the season ends, regardless of whether they make a trade. So your hypothetical scenario where Avila doesn’t have a choice just doesn’t exist. Everyone that has responded to you knows this.
Took an under market deal? That signing was universally panned at the time as a complete overpay by the Tigers.
Stymeedone. You could be right as I said previously. But you could be wrong also. The entire industry is talking about how Tigers have to drop payroll. Even Dave Cameron talked about it in his chat yesterday. Do you think he is randomly making that up? The question becomes how much payroll do they have to drop. That no one knows.
And do you understand why Avila would downplay that? Because obviously that could be used against him in negotiations. The fact is no one knows how much payroll the Tigers need to cut, only that it needs to be cut.
@stymeedone. Jerry Crasnick reporting this morning that Tigers are trying to link Kinsler with Wilson to move his salary. Also it would lessen the player package Detroit receives for Wilson. So there you go Detroit fans as I was saying.
Brewers have lot of prospect depth but only really 1 top tier prospect (Brinson.
Woodruff
Hadar
Ortiz
Burnes
Ray
Diaz
Clark
Erceg
Dubon
Supak
Gatewood
Monte
Lopez
Phillips
Bickford
Cordell
All seem like very interesting maybe top 250 types but all with their significant flaws
Umm dude Diaz, Hader, Ray, Woodruff, Ortiz are ALREADY top 100 prospects.
If Corey Ray is still considered a top 100 prospect that would be shocking and putting way too much stock into draft hype. Ortiz and Woodruff are solid top 100 types because they are close to majors but don’t have big ceilings. Hadar has a lot of reliever risk never got his hype. Diaz is a really good prospect, probably number 2 for me in their system, though not a top tier prospect
A little unfair to say they only have “one top tier prospect”.
If Brinson is the only one among them considered “top-tier”, then only a handful of MLB teams have more than one: ChiSox (Moncada, Rutherford, Jimenez), Braves (Acuna, Albies, Allard), Rays (Adames, Honeywell), Yankees (Frazier, Torres), and Pirates (Meadows, Keller).
Brinson may be the only one consistently rated among the top prospects in the game, but Hader and Ortiz are both comfortably inside the top 100 on almost every list, and Ray, Diaz, and Woodruff are Top 100 depending on what publication you look at.
They only have 1 top 25 prospect.
You’re not going to find a lot of teams with 3-4 guys in the top 30. They have one of the better systems in baseball for sure. He’s not entirely wrong, they have some flawed guys but their young and obviously have immense potential. But you look at Phillips,, Diaz, ray etc they all have pretty bad plate discipline at this point and Hader and Ortiz walk entirely too many batters. But nonetheless the system is strong.
“needs to improve control” or “needs to improve plate discipline” can be applied to probably 90% of prospects.
No kinsler regardless what he costs. To write that villar would be a utility player is a great mistake as we found out he can’t play defense. I’m leaving Eric sogaard at second base as he has totally out hit kinsler. Besides who are you taking off the 40 man? Anyway you look at it, it just doesn’t make sense. I’m filling this under Detroit trying to create market for kinsler.
What percentage of HOF votes will Kinsler receive? My guess is right around 5%.
I think he could hang the ballot for awhile.
You might be right, simply because he played in Detroit. Lou Whitaker has a significantly higher lifetime WAR than Derek Jeter. Lou failed to get enough votes to get on a second year. Jeter will be a 1st ballot inductee. Totally unfair.
Zimmermann/Kinsler for Phillips and so on?
Depends on money. The more money Detroit sends, the better the prospect. If they send no money, they’d get a couple guys in the top 50ish range, aka no-namers. If they send tons of money, they might get a top 30 guy and a couple lower ranked ones.
There’s no amount of money they could send w Jordan Zimmerman to fetch a decent trade.
Uh no, Brewers aren’t taking on rest of Zimmerman’s deal to go along with kinsler and giving back a diaz type
That would be an awful deal for the Brewers
I’m not a Brewers fan but this team is hell of a lot of fun to watch everyday. They have a lot of young talent and Nelson reminds me of Arietta 2014 before his breakout 2015 season. If I were them I wouldn’t try and sell the farm this year, it took them least 2-5 years to put the farm back together after the deal for Grienke. They still need pitching depth in the pen and rotation. Those issues can be addressed in the offseason.
Yeah, this makes no sense to me. The Brewers don’t necessarily need a guy like Kinsler, and they certainly don’t need Justin Verlander. I could see maybe how they’d like to have them for some essential lottery ticket type guys but if they gave up prospects of high value, I honestly see that as a big mistake.
The Brewers need pitching/bullpen help above all else. They should’ve been in on the Sean Doolittle/Ryan Madson deal. The only way I’d trade top-100 prospects if I’m Milwaukee is if it’s to land say a Zach Britton or Sonny Gray.
Maybe Detroit would get Villar back in the deal. He is cost controlled until 2020 would become a free agent in 2021.
I don’t see a fit there. They have Iggy a SS, and Dixon Machado has earned a shot. Gotta see what he has during this rebuild phase.
Romine can play the utility role just fine.
Villar can play 2nd
So can Machado. Detroit needs to see what he can do, he’s been a blocked “prospect” for a long time.
Everyone basically figured he’d be a utility player at best, but he’s hit well in limited plate appearances this year.
Machado looks like a utility fielder. I would happily take Villar to add speed to the lineup.
When it comes to the Brewers it’s interesting, they are In first place surprisingly but have lost six straight with the Cubs, Pirates, and Cardinals on their tale. The Brewers system isn’t that strong but it’s not weak. They can make moves like this if they think they are really in this but if they buy it could turn into a nightmare for the crew but hey who knows
Top 3 system in all of baseball with 5-6 top 100 prospects in all of baseball is that strong huh? Okay.
5 in top 100 first of all and No need to be a smart alic. I know it’s strong but it’s not a strong as they think. They should not go for rentals or guys like Kinsler who are declining. not saying it would cost a top 5 to get Kinsler but they need to either trade for pitching or hold on to them and wait it out
Why do you say he’s declining, an older player can have a subpar season, it doesn’t automatically mean he’s declining.
Kinsler is declining but look at where he’s coming from. He’s averaged roughly 6 WAR the last three years. If he plays the way he has he’s a 3.5-4.0 WAR player this year. That’s not as good as Kinsler has been but it’s better than all Brewer regulars except Travis Shaw.
What do you mean “strong as they think”. According to all the major publications they have a consensus top 5 system. How is that “not that strong”.
Well, obviously it’s not as strong as they think because they aren’t Cardinals. EVERYBODY knows that the worst Cardinal prospect is 100000000000000000 times better than ANYONE else’s prospects. The Cardinals are the greatest collection of individuals in the history of mankind. Not just the best baseball franchise, not just the best sports franchise, the best group of people every. Jesus’ apostles wished they were St. Louis Cardinals. The founding fathers wished they were St Louis Cardinals.. The members of Led Zeppelin wished they were St Louis Cardinals.
Every person on the planet that hasn’t been with the Cardinals dies a tiny fraction of a person they could have been, if only they had been a Cardinal.
You, sir, win the internet today.
Yippee!!!!
The Brewers have a very strong system, with top tier talent (Brinson, Hader, Ortiz, Ray, Woodruff, Diaz), as well as a very deep system.
Kinsler has been nicked up all year, and just starting to get healthy, which corresponds with his better play over the last month or so. Keep in mine he had a great year last year. His salary is not bad, and the tigers don’t need to cut salary that badly. If they can’t get a quality prospect, he won’t be moved. The JD trade wasn’t great, but he will be a FA in 3 months, Kinsler is locked up for 1.5 years.
Zimmerman has a full no trade through the 2018 season. The Tigers are not in a fire sale. They have planned for a long, deliberate downsizing of contracts. They have a bunch of money coming off this year, like 38 million. In another year, they will have Kinsler and V-mart off the books to..
They have no need to include contracts to dump money.. they will want prospects, although Brinson is asking too much for anyone besides Fulmer.
No kinsler regardless what he costs. To write that villar would be a utility player is a great mistake as we found out he can’t play defense. I’m leaving Eric sogaard at second base as he has totally out hit kinsler. Besides who are you taking off the 40 man? Anyway you look at it, it just doesn’t make sense. I’m filling this under Detroit trying to create market for kinsler.
Say it three more times and people will totally agree!
The article says the Brewers are exploring the option of Kinsler. Doesn’t sound like it’s on Detroit’s end. Again, he doesn’t have to be moved. Detroit is not the Marlins. Lol!
Exactly. Kinsler is cheap and liked by the fans. No need to trade him.
seems like cesar hernandez might make more sense for the brewers as a cheaper, longer term option.
Brewers probably just kicking tires. There is essentially zero market for Kinsler. So the crew might just be checking in to see if Al Avila is willing to give Kinsler away for a bag of balls. GMs are still trying to figure out if Avila is the new Dave Stewart. Early returns aren’t promising for Al, so I would be on the horn w/ him checking his pulse often.
Yea…ok…what a dumb comment. Did you happen to figure what he gave up to get Justin Wilson?
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while…
I am a Tigers fan, but Al has been pretty subpar thus far.
There is subpar and then there is trading Kinsler for a bag of balls and Dave Stewart.
Kinsler should be packaged with J Wilson (and something else if needed) to get two top Top 100s (Brewers have 5 of the top 53) according to MLB.com.
Otherwise, no need to trade Kinsler. He is relative cheap and fan favorite.
Didn’t know the Brewers needed a selfish, head case clubhouse cancer like Kinsler.
*These opinions are not the views and opinions of the general Detroit fan base.
Kinsler has been a solid presence in Detroit with no mention or signs of him being detrimental to the clubhouse here… Not sure what he did in Texas to make you think poorly of him.
Kinsler is considered probably the exact opposite of your description by Detroit Fans and the Media.
Spewing nonsense over and over doesn’t make it real
That was a specific issue he had with Jon Daniels the TX GM. He didn’t call Kins to let him know that he was traded. Bad form. Kins has matured IMO during his time in Detroit.
Never heard of him having any issues in Det.
The qualifying offer next year is 18.1 MM. Kinsler is a bargain at 10 MM.
that would be good trade for both teams! as long as tigers get a good prospect or 2 in return
I’m sure the Reds would be happy to trade them Scooter Gennett.
If the Brewers make a trade I personallyhope it’s just for Gray. That is a Scott Rolen trade like when Cincinnati trade for him to set up for the next season. Only trade I would make with Detroit would be a Wilson and Zimmerman combo trade for like maybe Broxton Orf Dejuses and lotto pick. They would also pay down Zimmerman deal. Yes being kinda nice because you know they are the ones that gave up on Perez ( thank you) LOL
The Brewers do have a very good system and some of our prospects in the 20s in 30s of our system might be pretty high in the Detroit system. I think a fair trade might be someone like Freddy Peralta going to Detroit for Ian Kinsler. Peralta has a very good arm and is starting to put it together but hasn’t broken through yet. I think he might be an intriguing piece for a team like Detroit. The Brewers get a veteran second baseman who would bring some stability to the position for a year and a half when hopefully someone like Isan Diaz might be ready to takeover the position.
They need position players that are mlb ready or nearly so. They have young pitchers . They traded away Eugenio Suarez, Willy Adames, Hernan Perez and Devon Travis and don’t have replacements at any level.
If that’s the case, then it’s pretty much Brinson or Phillips. And you ain’t getting either one of them for Kinsler.
Is anyone amazed that most of these prospects they have traded in recent past became good MLB players. It’s like brewers don’t get enough credit for growing from within similar to astros , rangers and jays. They may not with a World Series but give these team credit who made these prospects into ball players.