4:57pm: Lindor says that he could imagine reaching a long-term deal at some point, but that the time wasn’t right to do so over the winter, MLB.com’s Jordan Bastian tweets. The talks that did occur are “in the past,” says Lindor.
9:18am: There were reports during Spring Training that the Indians had attempted to work out a multi-year extension with star shortstop Francisco Lindor, but details on the talks never surfaced. This morning, Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci reports that Lindor turned down an offer that would’ve paid him “around $100 million.” Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer adds that the Indians did indeed make a “substantial” offer to Lindor, though he wasn’t able to confirm the $100MM figure (Twitter links). Furthermore, Hoynes says that there are no active extension talks with Lindor or any other player at this time.
Lindor’s rejection of the reported $100MM figure — or anything even close to that figure, for that matter — means that the rising superstar turned down an extension that would’ve shattered the current record for a player in his service class. Lindor, 23, entered the year with just one year, 113 days of Major League service time. As MLBTR’s Extension Tracker shows, the previous record for an extension for any player in the one-plus years of service bracket is Andrelton Simmons’ seven-year, $58MM contract, signed with the Braves prior to the 2014 season.
It’s certainly possible that the $100MM figure wasn’t entirely guaranteed and is including the value of some option years, but it does seem all but certain that such an offer would’ve set a new record. Also of note is that the years of the extension offer aren’t included in the Verducci report; a $100MM offer over a term of eight years would be considerably different than $100MM over the next 10 seasons, for instance. The number of free-agent years involved in the deal as well as option years and no-trade provisions all come into play when negotiating extensions, meaning a rough value of the overall package doesn’t provide enough context to fully judge the offer.
And while it’s undoubtedly difficult for Indians fans to stomach the fact that Lindor wouldn’t take what would’ve been far and away the largest contract in franchise history, it’s also not entirely stunning to hear that he rebuffed the team. Lindor did, after all, receive a healthy $2.9MM bonus as the No. 8 overall pick in the 2011 draft, so he started his career in a considerably better place than most of his peers. Beyond that, as Verducci notes in the heart of his column, the free-agent market is moving forward and figures to do so substantially between now and the time that Lindor reaches free agency in the 2021-22 offseason.
The 2018-19 free agent class is stocked with premium talent and figures to be headlined by Bryce Harper and Manny Machado. The common consensus is that each of those players could command at least $300MM, and the possibility of a $400MM contract for either, given that their youth — each will be 26 when entering free agency — will lead to contract offers of extreme length. Lindor won’t be quite so young when he reaches the open market, but he’ll hit free agency at the age of 27 as he heads into his age-28 campaign. That’s still quite young for a player to reach the open market, and Lindor of course figures to do quite well for himself in arbitration over the five years between now and the open market, though he won’t qualify for that process until the completion of the 2018 season.
Notably, Verducci did speak to Lindor’s agent, David Meter, and while Meter understandably didn’t get into any specifics on what was or wasn’t offered, he didn’t take a firm stance against ever agreeing to a long-term deal. “It’s just one of those things we’ll look at on a year-by-year basis,” Meter tells Verducci. “I don’t think it’s very productive to draw a line in the sand.”
While that lends some mild optimism about the possibility of an extension further down the road, it also likely means that the Indians will be required to substantially increase their offer if they’re to have any chances of getting an agreement in place. By the time next offseason rolls around, Lindor will be just one year removed from arbitration eligibility. And though he’d already established himself as one of the game’s elite young talents with a .306/.356/.454 batting line through his first 1122 plate appearances (accompanied by premium baserunning and defense), there are still signs that the best is yet to come. Lindor has already homered four times in 2017 after hitting 15 all of last year, and he’s off to a .351/.415/.684 start to his season through 66 plate appearances. It’s unlikely that he sustains that pace, but any improvement in his production, paired with the increasing proximity to arbitration, will only serve to further escalate the price tag on a Lindor extension.
Simmons signed that contract with the Braves
Argh. Typo on my behalf,. Thanks for the quick correction!
Dang. I was hoping a 100 mil offer would’ve been enough.
I guess the Indians will just have to save some money for the 2021-2022 offseason.
It’s okay everyone I just figured it out!! All the Indians have to do is save $200,000 every day until Lindor is a Free Agent.
The owners should open up a separate account for him
He probably just wants out of Cleveland for one reason or another
Would you want to live in Cleveland?
They have cereal there. All kinds. And milk.
Probably premature to discuss leaving any city as he’s under control regardless for several more years. He probably took the offer to buy protective injury insurance, etc. Too much money on sports. Not many in the real world would turn down $100m offers.
They would if they were confident that they could get 3 or 4 times that in a few years and still be well paid in between
That’s what I meant by securing the offer to then shop for injury insurance.
I’d live in Cleveland for 100 mil
I’d do a lot of things for $100m… shameful things…
i mean, when hes already made life changing money, and is a pretty safe bet to make a ton more, he doesn’t need to sign away FA years right now.
My previous comment meant nothing against Cleveland
I’d live in shakers heights for a 100 mil:)!
wrong
I think he should talk to Ian Desmond about turning down those type of extensions. Desmond left almost $30 million on the table even after a career year on a one year deal and an overpay by the Rockies. All it takes is one bad year or one recurring injury and you lose everything.. Lindor has a lot of talent, but he is getting very bad advice.
its bc the deal was probably 9 years at 100 mil with arbitration he will make between 40 and 70 mil over the next 5 years. make some since to turn down a contract that take you through your prime.
The only person saying it was a nine year deal is you
Actually Desmond was offered a 7/105 deal prior to the 2014 season. By turning that down he bet on himself……although it didn’t work out as favorably as he hoped. He’ll still end up making 7/85,500,000, and he’s guaranteed 8/95,500,000. CLE is almost assuredly seeking a buyout of multiple FA years which by then Lindor might be worth $25M+ each. Heck…even Lindor continues on his current career trajectory….he very well might make $40-50M through his arb years alone.
Thank you – I didn’t want to go looking up all his previous salaries but wanted to be sure someone pointed them out. Nationals deal was basically a 5 year extension, as it was buying out final 2 arb years. Don’t know what was agreed upon for those final 2 years but that was part of the 7 year deal. So those 2 years need to be added to the 1/8 with Texas and now his Rockies deal. Plus I heard Nationals deal included deferred money, lowering actual value. It seems like he might have lost a few million in the end but got the chance to bet on himself and decide where he wanted to play.
But like I said, it took both a career year AND an overpay by the Rockies to get within even $20 million of the money he turned down. He could have just as easily lost 2-3 times that much if had an injury or even an average year last season in Texas. I appreciate someone willing to bet on yourself, but turning down $100 million guaranteed, while still becoming a FA in your early 30s, is just foolhardy.
His career year was 2012 or 2013.
2012 he missed a month with injury. Other than WAR, he was better in 2016 across the board than 2013.
Bet on yourself.. I dig it Lindor
Plus he just signed with New Balance. This isn’t the NBA but I am sure he got paid very well. Just my opinion, I like people who are confident that they will be able to sustain success
If Lindor did indeed turn down $100M it would have to be because the Indians were trying to buy a lot of his free agent years. He’ll be 28 (BD Nov 14th) when he hits the free agent market after 2021 season, he will have one big contract he can sign then most likely. Delaying the entrance to free agency even by a couple of years could significantly reduce his value then. If the $100 M offer was over 8-10 years as suggested above, then that would be 3-5 years of free agency. I can understand why he would possibly turn that down.
My guess is they were trying to buy up a bunch of his FA years without guaranteeing more than half the money. There still plenty of time to get a deal done, but Cleveland will have to demolish, not just break, the piggy bank to keep him. He’ll command $18-20 million per season easily.
If he hits free agency at 28 expect an AAV over 30 million
Totally forgot how team friendly Andrelton’s contract is. Braves blew that one big time. Newcomb is a free pass machine.
How much $$$ is enough? Greed is ruining the sport.
As stated in the article, you would really have to look at the actual offer to see if it was really an overpay, realistic offer, or a team friendly underpay. How many years was it for, how much guaranteed and how much is in team options. a 7 year deal with 3 team options could be considered a large underpay by standards these days. if he stays productive, he will garner that and more, guaranteed through arbitration and with his first free agent foray. That happens, he loses his bet on himself. He gets hurt, he loses the bet. Sports is the same as any entertainment business. Singers and actors get paid if they put butts in the seats to watch them perform. Same thing happens with athletes.
Player greed? They are just trying to make a living and earn what their peers are earning.
I understand it seems crazy to the common person to see someone making that kind of money, but everyone ignores the ownership who rakes in cash for using these athletes.
Also, many people can put in the time and effort to go to school and become lawyers or doctors, but not many can step on a ballfield and be one of the best at their profession. There’s probably less than 50 people in the world who can start at quarterback in the NFL, and that’s why they are so “overpaid” as well.
If Lindor keeps producing at the same level he will get 200 million easy
Average surgeon wages are 500-700k in the US.. You’re telling me Lindor is more usefull in society and should make more than 100mil? Sometimes our “system” just doesnt make sense.
I’m telling you that a surgeon is more useful to society, but a star baseball player generates more money.
Bingo. I said the same thing but much more wordy below.
What is the average yearly income for other entertainers? How much do actors & actresses get paid? Music entertainers? The athletes can command the money because of the money paid to the ownership of the teams by us fans to be entertained by the athletes. Players that put butts in the seats get paid big bucks because they are the draw. Players that round out the lineup do not get paid nearly as much because they are interchangeable.
If you want anything to make sense then it’s all about perspective. You’re talking about useful, if we wanted society to work that way then I can safely say some janitors are more useful than some people making 6 figure salaries.
But baseball is a business, a multi-billion dollar business. Each team makes hundreds of million each year in revenue. That’s why someone like Lindor can sign a 9 digit contract.
Well go pay to watch surgeons operate on people instead of attending baseball games, watching baseball games, checking news sites about baseball, etc. Go check out web md more often. Until then baseball players will make more than surgeons.
Its called capitalism
You don’t get paid for “usefulness to society” you get paid for generating money. A lot of people should be thrilled that that is true because otherwise they would receive a bill every two weeks instead of a check.
20000 people pay about $40 every day in Cleveland to watch baseball. A share of that goes to the players. If you want surgeons to make more, be willing to pay way more for your hospital visit or refuse to contribute money to MLB.
A surgeon directly impacts one person at a time, maybe an entire family, a few dozen a day total. A pro baseball player entertains 20- 50 thousand in person and millions of people watching on TV. Yes the surgeons impact is more meaningful in most cases but the player impacts many hundreds times more people
Baseball is entertainment. We pay for entertainment. Baseball made more than $12 billion last season in revenue so the 900 guys that provide us with that entertainment are going to get paid huge amounts of dollars.
If 900 surgeons created $12 billion per year in revenue they would make a lot more than $700k.
There are 18,000 active general surgeons in the United States.
There are only 750 MLB roster jobs.
So yes, it is harder to be a Major League Baseball player (24x more difficult to be exact) than it is to be a surgeon. Cry about it.
24 times the $700k that a surgeon makes is about what a star player makes. $16.8 million
Nobody pays money to watch surgeons perform surgery. That’s just basic economics. Some careers and skills are monetized in ways that don’t correlate with the value they give to “society” or some other such lofty ideal. Cops, firefighters, etc. It’s not the fault of the system, unless you’re suggesting getting rid of free-market capitalism (and that’s an entirely different argument).
But, yeah, people get paid what their employers believe they are worth. Period. Lindor is a terrific young player, one of the new faces of baseball, and he generates tens of millions of dollars for his employers every year. As much as we might not like it, a surgeon doesn’t do that.
Gotta be tough to walk away from $100 million. He will surely get paid, but man that’s a tough one.
Don’t blame him for betting on himself. I hope it works out for him, but it’s a lot of risk he’s taking on, especially since he won’t get paid all that much until he hits arbitration. If it were me, I’d probably think, “You know, there’s not a lot that I actually want that I couldn’t buy with $50M (after taxes, agent commission, union dues, etc),” but that’s just me.
As a Tribe fan, I just can’t help but get a flashback of the Thome/Manny/Belle/CC/Lee/Victor days
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Reports out of spring training from a kindergartener
If I were Lindor, I wouldn’t be considering anything more than 1 guaranteed FA year. Maybe a mutual/player option beyond that but nothing more.
That would mean 5 years max if the extension starts next season.
To anyone comparing this to a profession outside of the entertainment industry, learn some economics.
No one gets a player option in a pre free agency contract
A 6 year old told us how long the deal was on-air during a game. 7 years. Lindor is under team control for 2017 and 4 more seasons so it would have bought out 2 years of FA making him a FA at 30.
In my opinion, he is getting bad career and life advice. $100 million is generational money and he would be in line to get another astounding contract in FA. He doesn’t have the power to get the $25-30 million some are saying, but he should easily get $18-20 million plus inflation in free agency.
If he stays healthy he is looking at $579k in 2017, $579-600k, $4 M, $8 M, $14-15 M or about $28 million prior to FA and then $20-22 in FA, $20-22 in FA. A total of $68-72 million over the next 7 seasons. Even if he develops more power and gets that $25 million payday for 2022 and 2023, he will still only earn about $78 million over the next 7 seasons.
If what you say is true, maybe Lindor is just being a good team player by saving the team money and going year to year. He’s saving the Indians at least $20 million. Seems like a really great guy to have on your team.
I’ve never been one to endorse large contracts, but if there was anyone who deserves it and that the ownership needs to do everything possible to keep in Cleveland, it’s Lindor. Just knowing he might walk in FA 5 years from now makes me feel sick.
Lindor is under team control through 2021. There is no reason for Lindor to sign an extension now. I don’t blame him for not wanting to sign an extension now.
I don’t blame him either. While we all wish he would sign today and be a career Indian, he is a superstar in the making and will deserve more money than the Tribe will be able to provide him. Sucks, but after losing so many stars a few years ago we’re going to eventually lose this one too. But some of those guys had to go because they were able to be dealt and had to be dealt because they were stuck with Travis Hafner and that contract of his. What a waste, couldn’t play consecutive games, and that was a joy as a DH anyway as he couldn’t play the field either.
Yeah Hafner stunk, but I think the possibility for Lindor staying in Cleveland remains open. It probably has to happen within the next two or maybe three years but I think it could as long as Lindor has some interest in staying with the Tribe.
The fact that the Dolans were willing to give out a $100 million dollar contract is huge. So if the Indians continue to find success and make some more postseason appearances, team revenue increases and the Dolans willingness to spend more money increases.
I wouldn’t be that surprised if the Dolans offer a 200mil contract within a couple of years
Not if they’re still averaging 20,700 per game like they are right now. Perfect weather last night and they only drew 16,000
He needs at least 6 year 150 mil to stay and that’s just TODAY imagine 5 years from now