The Cardinals are “making major progress” in extension talks with star catcher Yadier Molina, according to Jon Heyman of Fan Rag. With positive momentum toward a deal, it now seems an accord is “getting close,” per the report.
Molina said over the weekend that he would not be willing to discuss a new deal during the season, seemingly setting an Opening Day deadline to wrap talks up one way or another. If it doesn’t come to fruition, then the 34-year-old would almost certainly hit the open market after the season. Though his contract does include a $15MM mutual option, with a $2MM buyout, there’s little likelihood of both sides wanting to exercise that clause.
The terms under consideration aren’t clear at this point, but Heyman notes that the sides were working to bridge initial differences in the length of the new deal. Molina’s representatives opened with a four-year request, with the organization coming in at two seasons. That leaves three as the natural (and, in this case, seemingly reasonable) compromise point, though of course options could also be used to tweak the consideration in either direction.
For better or worse, I’m pretty confident it will get done. He’s worth more to the Cardinals than anyone else. Hopefully some vesting options on the end that make sense for both sides
I think he could actually be worth more to another team. With how good the Cubs are the Cardinals will have a tough time winning the division any time soon no matter how well he plays and how much he lifts everyone up.
Put him on another team with eyes towards winning its division (Mets, Nationals, Tigers, Mariners, Rockies) and he could be the player that pushes them over the top.
Well there’s certainly other ways to the playoffs than finishing ahead of the Cubs.
But even if you think the Cardinals are going to be bad, I’d argue that Yadi staying would be even more important to the Cardinals.
the injury bug could change all that cubbie talk.
I guess you need something to hope for.
because yes the Cubs are unbeatable and will win what 10 world series in a row. congrats on breaking 108 years. just don’t forget baseball is humbling for everyone at some point. to dismiss that is foolish.
Lol win a World Series and you think you’re the best team ever to exist in baseball? You’re sounding ridiculous. The cubs are weaker than they were last year, and the Cardinals are strong. Cubs also have shown subpar at best in spring training this year. Don’t get your hopes too high.
Well, look at the team from last year, and they were historically good. Oh and spring training tells everything. And you do realize the Cubs have everyone in their lineup back, and even with injuries that have depth. God go away.
I’m just going to assume you’ve been a Cubs fan since last October
They weren’t “historically good”, the only record they broke was one only they could break. They didn’t have some kind of pivotal season and will now control the game forever. Spring training doesn’t tell everything, I never said it did, but it tells a lot. You’re far too confident, and its that kind of overconfidence that drowns a team.
Detroit aren’t contenders, Seattle and Colorado only in their minds.
4/60. And it’ll be hard to get value out of the end of that contract.
It will probably be closer to 3/60
Really….would you really want to pay a catcher at the age of 37, the last year of his contract $20 Million a year?
Seriously pal, that makes no sense at all. The comment for 4/60 makes even less sense.
Would either of you be willing to write the check????
You really don’t understand baseball contracts. Top tier catchers are paid paid $15M+ Yadi had a pretty typical Yadi year…308/.360/.427 with elite D. If he was a FA right now he could easily get either of those 2 contracts that you think are a joke. If he agrees to an extension it will most likely be for an AAV of around $17-18M.
Why not? Cards can certainly afford it for three years (short deal) and it could be a guarantee he retires a Card. There’s significant value simply in that, but it’s also a nice bonus on a great career as a Cardinal. If it was a long deal at 20 mil plus a year then your argument against would make more sense. 3 years would be great and he’s on the team as Carson Kelly gets groomed to take over. What a great coach for him to learn from.
I’m sorry he’s 37 he’s not getting that much money not even close how about 3 for 45
He’s 34. 35 at the trade deadline.
37 would be his final year on a 3 year contract..
How the hell do you think 4 years 60 mil makes less sense than 3 years 60 mil??
Even if he doesn’t produce at all in year 4 it’s the same amount of money with potential that he gives them an extra solid year. I don’t understand your logic at all.
Don’t get me wrong…. I wouldn’t sign him to anything close to that. But saying an extra year for the same amount of money “makes even less sense,” may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.
Something like 3/51 wouldn’t surprise me
I was thinking 2/34. They’d go a little higher on the AAV but shorter on the years, and they could reassess after and tack on 2 more if he is still doing well.
If he would agree to 2/34, don’t you think it would have been done already?
3/60 would be a huge financial mistake, and Mo doesn’t usually do that (although the Wong Deal is looking like a bust). No way is he going to be worth $20 million in 3 years. Kelly will be the starter and Yadi will be on the short side of a platoon.
I get the loyalty thing, he’s been a great part of this Team for a long time. 3/48 tops, with him agreeing to scale it back starting in 2018…..or 4/60, with a much lighter load in the last 2 years..
Yadi will not be on short side of platoon. Kelly will be traded or yadi will be out because he’s injured. Matheny will never bench yadi. He doesn’t even rest him occasionally now when he needs it. Right or wrong that’s the way matheny handles yadi.
There is no need to trade Kelly at all. Certainly not in 17.
Somebody is probably going to be unhappy then if Kelly really is ready
Wong for 20 is fine, that just team locking up possible upside, hardly call it a bust even if he’s platoon/bench, but I think 3/60 is fine, look what Adrian beltre got and I’d say similar MOs as far as leadership/D combos
Posey makes 22m this year. Cards will make Yadi very happy. 3 years is reasonable. 22, 22 and 20m. So 3/64m. At 14/15m a year for the last 4 years has been a deal.
You guys throw numbers around like “it’s not your money”…….Oh……Wait….
Kelly’s bat will force Matheny’s hand, and Yadi will do his part to “bring the kid along”…..that’s what great players do when they get older. Matheny will cooperate with that plan, because of his personal history with Molina.
See…….Matheny was the incumbent catcher when Yadi broke into the Bigs. Matheny saw him play in Spring Training, in 2001, and said to his wife “I just saw the kid who’s going to steal my job”. Yes Yadi has been a better catcher than Matheny could ever be. But Kelly represents “The New Blood”……..and Yadi needs to do everything he can, as a Cardinal, to help make that transition smooth. Give him 5/70 if you want, but make him a player/coach in the 4th year, and a bench coach in the 5th year.
Again, That’s what Great Players Do!
It would not surprise me a bit if Mo gave Yadi a nice signing bonus in 17. Say 6 to 8 million and just a solid 3/60 deal with team option or two.
ik many are like Yadi isn’t worth it. yadi wouldn’t get that on open market imo. but in FA team typically pay for a players past production on another team. In this case Cards have a chance to reward Yadi themselves. They have the money and can reward Yadi and not endanger future payroll.
That’s where Pjuols was different. Pjuols demanded a 10 yr deal at a premium cost.
Nobody on here is saying he is really worth that, but as the franchise icon, he will probably get more than he is actually worth, especially for his decline phase years. Hopefully starts high and lowers down each year as he becomes a back up/pinch hitter/coach.
3/60 actually makes sense. Maybe 23-20-17 pays him as the highest paid catcher this season. Probably a vesting option based on PA for a fourth season.
3/$53M. $18M, $18M, and $17M. Rangers extend Lucroy(hopefully) less than a week after for $18M, $18M, $17M, and $17M.
If I’m Lucroy, there is no way I take that at this point. He is so close to free agency and if he has even a decent year he is going to get a better contract than that.
So very true about Lucroy… He should test FA because he gave Brewers such a good deal..
Cards have plenty of money to spend. And he could very well be playing until he’s 40 if he’s like his brothers. It’s rare to see a player of his caliber play entire career with same team these days. Glad it’s likely true with him and the cardinals.
I will be in the minority, but time to move on. A 34 year oöd catcher who gets 1-2 WAR per season and whose power has steadily declined is not worth $16 million a year. Albert Pujols was miles more important to St. Louis, and the team survived without him.
If you were a GM, would you be concerned that LuCroy has suffered from a previous concussion? Look what happened with the Twins and Joe Mauer? Any thoughts?
The big difference being that Pujols was offered a ridiculous amount of money over a VERY long time… A contract like that could cripple a team for a long time. A 3 year deal for Molina, not so much… If Pujols would’ve taken a 3 year deal, I’d bet a LOT of money that he would’ve stayed with the Cardinals.
Statistically pujols was worth more, yes. But as huge pujols fan and huge yadi fan, pujols was no where near as valuable in all the things statistics cant measure. Leadership and the way he handles a pitching staff is beyond comparison.
“Though his contract does include a $15MM mutual option, with a $2MM buyout, there’s little likelihood of both sides wanting to exercise that clause.”
I disagree with that statement. Sure, $15 a lot for a catcher at 35 (next year), but seems much preferred over giving a 35 yr old a long term contract. Especially given the fact that he’s behind the plate. Their bodies tend to break down right about now; or soon thereafter.
But you’re only looking at that from the team’s point of view. If Yadi has another good season, he’s declining the option and looking for a multi-year deal.
Which is why it’s unlikely that Molina would exercise his half of it.
Cubs fans are hilarious. Won the World Series, now they think that they can’t be beat. To be honest, I don’t think that the Cubs will be as good as they were last year. Everything went right for them last year and I don’t see it happening again especially with an aging rotation. I’m picking the Cardinals to win the division this year and go to the World Series.
I know a lot of true Cubs fans, and they’re great baseball fans. They’re even annoyed by the rush of bandwagoners in the last year.
It’s similar to Boston in 2004. All of the sudden there was Red Sox fans all over. You just have to laugh at it and keep enjoying baseball
“cubs fans are hilarious”
“I’m picking the cardinals to win the division and go to the ws”
Oh the irony.
Also betting the under on the cubs for 2017 is pretty much a no brainer. 103 games is a lot to win for any specific team. And winning the world series is a very low probability event as well.
Ok so here’s a baseball history fact the last time the cards had over 19 wins in spring training (2009) the clinched the division with the “cubs” in second.
Here’s another fact, the last time the cards had a better spring training record than the cubs, the cubs went on to win the world series. Neither of these facts mean anything. I really hope you weren’t actually trying to make any sort of point with that comment.
And why do you have cubs in quotes?
“Everything went right for them last year”
-one of their best pure hitters gets knocked out for the entire regular season in the second game
-heyward turns into hot garbage
-arrieta regressed
-bullpen wasn’t healthy in the stretch run
But yeah, those lucky Cubs. And like chesterarthur said, it’s pretty ironic how you think the cardinals are the favorites to win the NL after calling cubs fans hilarious.
Even if you want to say everything went well for the cubs last year, it’s irrelevant to 2017. They are projected by pretty much (maybe all?) neutral locations to win the central division.
Commenting about how cubs fans are hilarious since winning (I wouldn’t even argue with this. There was the whole win division by 20 games comment thread) and following that with a comment about how your favorite team (juding by username) is going to win the central and go to the ws series despite neutral parties thinking otherwise is supposed to be less homery? Very much a glass house situation. You can’t expect something like that to be given legitimate consideration.
Was he trying to be ironic? I’m really not sure. At least cubs fans (and anyone else) making the claim that they are going to win the division have projections and most evaluators to back up that claim. A cardinals fan making that claim should really back it up with any sort of evidence or reasoning otherwise they just come off blatantly homerish and petty. And “they were too healthy last year” isn’t a very good argument since they are projected to be significantly better again.
If your argument is “I think every one else is just wrong” then fine, that’s your opinion, but it’s hard to take anything like that seriously without some sort of argument to back it up.
Look for a contract that is probably around 18.5 million a season… at a total of about 120mill total… back loaded…. it will carry him through retirement and probably give him vesting and front office roles if he gets injured. Yadi is future managerial material. Yadi will never leave the Cardinals organization. If he does then Bill DeWitt is crazy. Molina is flights above the likes of Pujols.
You are about $60 million dollars wrong.
If I were stl I’d give him 3/54 and not think twice about it. He’s worth it.
He ain’t getting no 120 @frosttie not a chance.
It would have to be a 10 year contract that includes a coaching position for the last 6 years……IMHO………they would be keeping him in the organization and showing respect.
I don’t expect to see anything like that either. Why lock him into that kind of deal? What happens if he turns out to be “not such a great coach”??? (but I expect that he will be an excellent coach)
I hate Cubs fans that turn a thread about yadi and his value, or lack thereof, into a thread about the unbeatable Cubs. They’re the world champs and if it’s a thread about Cubs, then brag all you want. Cubs were good last year, look good this year. But baseball is crazy and right now brewers and reds are tied for first with Cubs and cardinals. So let’s see what happens. Neither looking good on paper or winning WS last year guarantees a team anything. Heartbreak is still more likely than repeat title, because you know, baseball is that way. I never really rooted against Cubs except when they played the cards. Now id love for any team to knock them off just so we could stop hearing their fans talk about the cards and other teams not even having a chance and how they should not even try. Cards and Cubs used to be a friendly rivalry that was so much fun. Now it’s getting ridiculous. By the way, glad it looks like cards are resigning Yadi. He’s a legend.
Yadi is more valuable to the Cardinals than just catching and hitting. He’s their leader. He’s the center of the wheel of the whole team. The absolute best at working with young pitchers and the veteran’s like Wainwright trust what he calls to throw. The heart of the team needs to be extended at least 3 years with an option year as a player or player/coach. At the worst, he’ll be an above average catcher at the end of that 4 years. Then, sign him up for 5 years as a coach. Preferably the Pitching coach!!! And special assistant to the training of all catchers, plus the coach on the bench to align the teams fielders against certain hitters. No one studies hitters tendencies more than Yadi. 3 years of 18.5 million ($55.5 million) an option year at 17 million as a player or player/coach. Then his 5 year coaching package.
At worst after four years, his knees sill be shot or his bat will completely disappear. His worst won’t be an above average catcher
If yadi can physically appear in a game, he’s above average regardless of his age. At beginning of his career he couldn’t hit at all. Tony Larissa famously said he’d start yadi if his batting average was .000. Many people who have played with yadi have said he’s best catcher they’ve ever seen, period. WAR has not yet figured out how to value yadi. Those that think if yadis bat fails that he’ll be worthless don’t know yadi and don’t understand the catching position and leadership and handling pitchers. The secret to why cards have routinely “found” young pitchers who panned out and revived guys who were washed up pitching for other teams that then had success with cards is yadi. He’s that good and now matter how much he’s praised, he’s still underrated because you can’t measure what he brings to team. Having a star play his entire career with a team is cool to see and worth a ton to their fans.
Yadi is not as good on defense as he used to be. He’s still valuable for many things, but he’s not what he was
Molina’s days of 3.5 WAR are over. Don’t pay him for the past, and don’t stick yourselves in three years with a guy who is earning $18 mill but with the production of a AAA catcher.
WAR is overrated and should not be used for catchers. Yadi does things that can’t be measured by stats. Leadership, pitch calling, framing, etc. guy could have war of 1.5 and I’d still want him on my team for 18 million. Especially if that team has young pitchers.
While WAR is not perfect, it is HIGHLY indicative.
You can tout intangibles all day long, but the truth is that the tangibles are where a player, catcher or otherwise, earns 90+% of the value of their contract.
He’ll end up with something in the 4/60 range, but by the end of that pact he’ll be an albatross and a very expensive backup.
I think that there are elements of the catching position that dWAR misses, but in general, it’s a pretty good measure. In any event, I do believe that Molina is an excellent defensive catcher, and is good with pitchers. However, in three years, his defense abilities of all kinds are likely to deteriorate dramatically, and he is already an offensive liability – and getting worse.
Better to let him walk a year early than saddle the team with a washed up player making $18-20 mill for two more years than he is worth.
satan go away