TODAY: The Rangers may hold off on acquiring a starter due to Cashner’s relative progress, Sullivan writes. While the righty still may be a longshot to make Opening Day, Cashner might not be out of action for too long, so Texas could get by with internal options. Griffin, for instance, improved his stock with a good four-inning outing on Saturday.
FRIDAY: Cashner’s outlook seems reasonably positive, per an update from MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan tweets. The righty will have an injection before beginning a new throwing program this weekend, says Sullivan. Notably, follow-up visits to the doctor have not revealed any “major” problems with his arm.
YESTERDAY, 1:00pm: Rangers pitching coach Doug Brocail now says, more definitively, that Cashner will not be ready for the start of the season, tweets Wilson.
10:07am: Right-hander Andrew Cashner has suffered a setback in his recovery from biceps tendinitis and will be shut down for another few days, per Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. The latest injury troubles for Cashner now have his readiness to open the season in doubt, and Cashner is likely to undergo an MRI to give the Rangers more information on the issue.
Beyond that, the Rangers saw their catching depth take a hit, as Brett Nicholas will require surgery to repair a torn meniscus and be sidelined into April (Twitter link via MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan). Furthermore, Sullivan tweets that Jurickson Profar jammed his left middle finger while playing in the World Baseball Classic, though there’s no indication that the issue is serious.
Certainly, the larger issue for the Rangers is Cashner’s timeline. Signed to a one-year, $10MM contract this winter, the oft-injured Cashner was penciled in as a likely fourth starter behind Yu Darvish, Cole Hamels and Martin Perez. Tyson Ross was signed this winter to serve as a fifth starter as well, but it was known at the time his deal was finalized that he wouldn’t be ready come Opening Day.
Cashner been dealing with biceps tendinitis since at least last week but was at least playing catch from a distance of 120 feet on Tuesday, Wilson notes. Even that level of activity, it seems, will be halted for the time being, however.
Texas does have a number of alternative options for the final two spots in the rotation, though none is without his question marks. A.J. Griffin is once again in the mix, though he posted an ERA north of 5.00 in 119 innings with the Rangers last season. Former first-rounder Chi Chi Gonzalez is another option, but the 25-year-old had an unimpressive season in Triple-A last year. Nick Martinez, Eddie Gamboa, Tyler Wagner and Yohander Mendez are all also on the 40-man roster, though Mendez has already been optioned out of big league camp. Veteran righty Dillon Gee is also in camp on a non-roster deal and has been healthy to this point.
While pulling one starter (or a combination of starters) from that mix to fill one spot in the rotation seems doable, it may be asking a lot of that group to ably fill two slots in the rotation of an expected contender in the American League West. It’s not yet known exactly how long Cashner will miss, but if he’s deemed to require a significant absence, then certainly one can imagine the Rangers looking to the remaining free agents or to some lower-profile trades to help fill out the rotation. Longtime Rangers fixture Colby Lewis remains unsigned, as do righties Doug Fister and Edwin Jackson (though Texas reportedly decided against making an offer to Jackson after watching him throw last month). Any talk of Texas adding an arm is, of course, speculative in nature to this point, however.
As for Nicholas, his injury thins out the Rangers’ catching depth but isn’t likely to have a significant impact on the team’s big league roster. Jonathan Lucroy and Robinson Chirinos are the clear top two catchers in the organization, although with each playing in the WBC, Nicholas’ injury does leave Texas a bit thin on catching options in camp while that tournament is in progress.
Doug Fister signing in 5, 4….
No reason not to have Colby back on another cheap deal at this point
Rotator cuff, latisimus dorsi, cut thumb during hunting, and a slew of back, neck, tendon and shoulder injuries. And somehow he’s a safe enough bet to give 10 million too. The over/under for DL trips this year is set at 2.5
Where is the idiot that was against the Rizzo for cashner trade now?? Oh wait that was me. I really thought cashner was going to be a ace. I hope he comes back.
I can’t remember a pitcher-for-hitter trade that was won by the team getting the pitcher. I’m probably wrong but it’s always like Rizzo-Cashner or Hamilton-Volquez, feelis like the team getting the hitter almost always comes out on top.
Feel free to bring up examples proving otherwise though, I’m really blanking on any.
I guess you could argue Kluber (Ryan Ludwick I believe was the big hitter in that one, though I think it was a three-teamer) and maybe Porcello/Cespedes.
The porcello/cespedes one seems like a stretch, since cespedes was an all star that year while porcello was pretty mediocre. (Plus the fact that trading cespedes later netted Fulmer)
Yes on Kluber. The Tigers ultimately got Michael Fulmer out of the Porcello trade who is better and cheaper than Porcello so still a win for them.
He’s not better than the Cy Young winner.
Look at their ERA’s. Fulmer is better. Porcello winning the CY was a complete joke anyway.
Rick Porcello probably wasn’t even a top 3 pitcher in the AL last year. But wins matter sooooo much to voters apparently
Yup. No 22-4 and Porcello isn’t even in the conversation for the CY, even if he pitched exactly the same.
Yee of short memory. The Rick Porcello of 2016, is the same Rick Porcello that got pounded in 2015. Which version you prefer doesn’t matter because they are both Rick Porcello. You just don’t know which one will appear this season. My guess is somewhere in the middle. I’ll take my chances with Fulmer.
Look up Nolan Ryan.
In your opinion, other than ERA, in what way was Fulmer better than Porcello last season? I typically don’t think of ERA as the best measure since it is based on subjective errors. FIP, WHIP, H/9, HR/9, BB/9, K/9 are all less subjective and Porcello was as good or better in all of them.
Pineda-montero is one that comes to mind even though Pineda has been up and down
member Anthony Rizzo? i member
You are full of memerys
member han solo? where mah berries at
Well there’s a shocker.
I still don’t get why they didn’t just keep Holland for an extra $1 million.
Because Holland is an even worse injury risk
Not enough to justify switching to a guy that you have no idea if he could even remotely stay afloat in the AL. His numbers have been horrible in the NL for a few years now.
3.85 FIP in 2015 and 3.09 FIP in 2014. He’s been far from terrible before last year and he pitched better than his numbers show last year. He certainly hasn’t played to his potential but calling him “terrible” is just incorrect.
JUST SIGN COLBY
Lol
Waiting for someone to say they’re surprised…
I’m surprised…..not.
I am surprised he got 1 year 10 mill.
Personally, had the Padres stuck with Cashner as a bullpen piece they would have made the rizzo deal more equal. He had all the tools to be an elite closer/ set up man.
But, at least Preller actually got some decent pieces for Cashner. Naylor and Capps was a definite overpay.
You don’t trade a controllable MVP contender for a bullpen piece
2016- Rizzo was 4th
2015- Rizzo was 4th
2014- Rizzo was 10th
2013- Rizzo was wasn’t even top 25
Hasn’t even come close to MVP in any season.
In the one year cashner was used as a bullpen piece he posted 10.10 k/9, 3.69 bb/9, 53% GB rate, and a xfip of 3.06. He had the stuff to be an elite and dominant closer had he stuck with it.
Thus, they then trade a MVP candidate for a CY Young Candidate as elite and dominant closers do garnish CY Young votes. Or, at the very worst, he is an elite set up man.
Also, weren’t you the one who said it’s easy to get decent production from 1B? There is a premium on pitching for a reason in this league. Because its not easy to find it. You can find a decent 1B option in this league, you won’t always find decent pitching that is available on the market.
Yup. 4th in the MVP voting. Where was Cashner in the Cy Yoing voting? Exactly.
I didn’t say it was easy to get decent production from 1st base or really any position. I said that it’s harder to get decent production from SS than 1st base and it is.
Cashner’s has only ever had success as a starter. As a reliever he just walked everyone. He had a great run as a starter in 2013 and 14.
In the end, without that trade the Padres as a team would have won more games in every year after it. That is the only reason we need to not make it.
If 4th in MVP voting “isn’t even close”, then I’ll take “isn’t even close” every day of the year.
Saying Rizzo was a controllable MVP candidate at the time of the trade means that you could also say Cashner was a controllable Cy Young candidate. 20/20 hindsight is not a gift that is unique to you.
I said at the time Rizzo would become an MVP candidate so no, this isn’t hindsight.
The big hurt is defending the Padres Trade for Cashner??? Hahahaha
He also defends the Matt Kemp trade and thought the rebuilding Phillies should trade for James Shields.
Wow….31-53 and this bum gets 10 Million a year!
And please don’t comment on how bad the teams were that he pitched for. Cream rises to the top!
One injured year after the next.
YIKES! what a bad decision by the Rangers!
How about if I comment how moronic it is to even look at wins as a measure of performance?
Pads….In most cases, yes, but if you are 31-53 in your career, odds are you are not good. A good pitcher WILL find a way to win on a bad team (see Steve Carlton and his 27 win season).
Congratulations! You just set the record for stupidest comment ever posted on this site! It is impossible to get a good looking win total by pitching for teams with offenses as bad as the Padres of the mid 2010s. Yes, Cashner’s performance over the past 2 years has left a lot to be desired, but citing wins and losses does NOTHING to prove that.
As for your Steve Carlton example, if he had gotten no run support and gone 0-27, my opinion of how he pitched that year would not change one bit and neither should yours.
Yeh…you’re right…all of those 300 game winners were garbage. Gimme a gimme a break….in and of itself W-L is NOT a good indicator, but a pitcher who wins year after year after year is a good pitcher.
Bad pitchers lose year after year after year.
No matter WHAT team they are on.
My dead grandma could win 20 games if she got the run support Rick Porcello got this year. Meanwhile, Clayton Kershaw wouldn’t have gotten any wins if he got the run support Andrew Cashner got with the Padres. The team you play for does indeed have a effect on the # of wins you get. Probably even more than how well you pitched. Just look at 2015 Colby Lewis and Shelby Miller for proof of that. But you probably think Lewis was the better pitcher in 2015. What a dumb bunny hahaha!
Steve Carlton lost 244 games in his career. That’s an insane amount of losses. 14th all-time. Do we take those as an example of his inability to rise above his team?
Win-Loss records are like those standardized tests they forced you to take in school. Sure, they might tell you a little bit about an individual’s performance, but there are much better ways of evaluation out there.
leefleux:
Cy Y0ung lost 316 games. A Major League record that will stand forever.
Walter Johnson lost 279.
So they were lousy pitchers?
Hey Bub….Sale won 17 games for a terrible defensive team in 2016.
Your comments are the dumbest and please offer a better defense for a constantly hurt pitcher that is almost 20 games under .500 and is making millions which was the original point.
The league rewards mediocrity hidden behind the new bible of baseball called METRICS!
Cy Young pitched before your great-great-grandparents were born, and Walter Johnson was a deadball-era pitcher for most of his career. Those guys threw complete games every start, basically, because they didn’t throw hard at all. There’s just no comparison.
Walter Johnson didn’t throw hard??? You need a refresher in history.
No one is arguing the fact that Chris Sale is one of the best pitchers in baseball. He made 29 appearances this year in which he allowed at least one run. So he could have easily gone 0-29. If he had, my opinion of him as a pitcher would not have changed one bit. And neither should yours.
On Cashner, if you had said “a constantly hurt pitcher with a 4.72 ERA over the past 2 seasons is making millions” your comment would have been completely sufficient. Pointing out the fact that he is 20 games below .500 doesn’t prove anything.
There is video of Walter Johnson’s delivery on YouTube. He doesn’t wind up and basically slings the ball nearly sidearm. No way he was generating any kind of velocity with that delivery. Just look it up. He may have thrown harder than the other pitchers of his era, but I’m guessing he was in the mid-80s or so. Johnson struck out 5.3 batters/9 innings in his career. That isn’t much of a ratio and certainly belies the notion that he was a flame-thrower.
You’re right. Wins for starting pitchers do ” tell you a little bit about an individual’s performance” just like every individual stat, on its own, does. Ignoring one, like wins, (and commenting like you have been racially slurred because someone else doesn’t) is much worse. Mark Buehlhre was never an exciting pitcher, but he consistently won games, no matter what team he was on. That tells me something. The top PAID starters are also the starters who get the most WINS, that tells me something. If you don’t see it, that’s your problem.
Ryan, Steve Carlton did not go 0-27 on that lousy Phillies team. HE WON 27 GAMES!!!!! That’s the surprising and amazing part. Its the Impressive part. It’s the human element of being a competitor that isn’t definable by stats. How can the fact that he did win that many NOT impress you. If you choose to IGNORE wins, that’s your problem. If someone on this chat board mentions wins, or rbi’s or batting average, please note that they are not dismissing any other stat (like YOU), they simply chose to mention a different one. I, like many others, prefer to be open minded and use everything available in my evaluations. I do read and consider what even you write. I just weight it very little.
Well, I think Steve Carlton was garbage. Two years before his lucky 27 win season, he led the league in losses with 19 and the year after his flukey season, he led the league again in losses with 20. What good pitcher leads the league in losses TWICE in 4 years. Obviously wins and losses are a great way to judge if a player is good or bad.
I never said anything about losses. I said wins. Please read.
No, you take it as a sign of longevity. You have to be damn good to stick around for that many losses. Bad pitchers don’t get the opportunity to pitch enough to acquire losses near those numbers. No one is saying to use ONLY wins or ONLY losses when making an evaluation. Just like you shouldn’t use ONLY FIP, or ONLY ERA, or ONLY Spin rate.
The top paid starters get the most wins because they play for good teams who offer them the most money to play for them. If you pitch reasonably well and play for a team with a great offense, you will win games. If you pitch just as well but aren’t playing for a good team you won’t win as much. Wins are a team stat, not a player stat.
I know he won 27 games. He made 32 appearances that year in which he allowed at least one run. What I’m saying is HAD the Phillies scored no runs for him and he gone 0-32, it wouldn’t mean he pitched any worse than he did in the real world. And spare us the “human element of being a competitor” b.s. That’s even dumber than the “cream rises to the top” comment. A pitcher does not control what the offense does when he pitches. All he can do is pitch the most innings, allow the fewest runs and, if he plays in the NL, at least TRY when it’s his turn to bat. Steve Carlton deserved the Cy Young that year because he pitched 346 innings and had the lowest ERA among qualifying starters, not because of some meaningless win total.
Davidcoonce you are clueless
How so?
Wins count Bub regardless of all the other metrics.
This guy isn’t the second coming of Cy Young.
Stick it.
Please stop using inflammatory language. It’s completely unnecessary.
Please feel free to point out where anyone called Cashner the second coming of Christ Young
We will most certainly comment on how bad the teams he played for were! “Cream rises to the top.” The absolute delusion hahaha
WestCoastRyan…you must be a legend in your own mind…you’re brilliant. And everyone else that isn’t as brilliant as you is a dolt?
That attitude you have, in and of itself is doltish.
Only stupid people feel the need to put down other people. It is a true sign of insecurity.
As if I, or anyone for that matter, should care what a guy who thinks wins and losses matter thinks about anything.
yet, you coment. so you must care.
Who appointed you the commissioner of record.
You make a lot of comments, and I agree with leefieux, your a brilliant legend in your own mind.
How about Sale you dolt…..he played on a terrible Sox team and still won 17 games.
Why don’t you comment on another blog and make us all happy.
God made me commissioner of record, at least I’m a legend in someone’s mind, Sale’s ERA, FIP, xFIP and SIERA tell me all I need to know about him and community ain’t got a need for you.
I need more, so I use ALL the numbers. And please don’t pretend to speak for the rest of us. I have need of Rocky in this community. Ryan, your comments would mean more if you countered the opinion, rather than belittling how you believe they arrived at their opinion.
You’re using a top 5 pitcher in the game as an example? This is an awful argument, win-loss records do not indicate if you’re a good or bad pitcher
Can we all stop with the personal insults? Calling people stupid, or dolts, or telling them to “stick it”? The ESPN comment function is what that is for. I tend to like this site for more thoughtful baseball commentary.
You’re right in that win=loss records do not indicate if your a bad or good pitcher, by itself. It can be part of the evaluation that leads to that decision, however. I prefer to look at Wins for starters. When only a handful of starters are able to get 15+ wins a year, taking note of the names that make that short list year after year, will provide value.
Yeah, Willie Blair was a beast
FACT: Colby Lewis went 17-9 in 2015 with a 4.66 ERA.
ALSO FACT: Shelby Miller went 6-17 in 2015 with a 3.02 ERA.
Of the two, who do you think pitched better that year? If you say Lewis, that tells me all I need to know. You just don’t understand and that’s okay.
Padres traded him away at the perfect time and got a Capps, Cosart, and Naylor for him and Guerrero. Some kind of nice.
Cosart is trash
Yeah, every 26-year-old guy that has a 3.92 ERA and throws mid-90s is trash. Sure. What are you going to say next, that wins are a great measure of pitching performance?
Here is a prediction for you. Cosart will go to the Padres pen and put up an ERA under 3.00 and be one of the top setup men in the game over the next few years.
I look at him and see a mirror of Daniel Hudson.
You padres fans talk a lot…last time you talked this much was about your ROCK STAR GM making all those BRASH and BOLD moves to get you to the pennant.
Sorry Charlie….stilll second division.
Top set up men in the league over the next couple of years…..PLEASE
Yes, the Padres definitely got rid of him at the absolute best time. I just hope that new pitching rule they made doesn’t affect Capps when he comes back from TJ surgery this season.
Capps could be the Padres closer by the end of the year and if he ends up in the pen Cosart’s stuff could take him from a failed starter to a very good reliever. You can overcome not having a 3rd plus pitch in the pen, especially when you throw 95. I saw Naylor play in Greensboro and I was not impressed compared so some of the other players that have come through here.
In other news, the sky is blue, water is wet, and people are still starving in Africa.
only in Africa?
Cashner is loser. It was one of worst trades on baseball history giving up Rizzo. Rizzo,Forsythe, Turner, Gyorko, and Grandal would of been nice IF.
Wow padreforlife…not according to the wizard of MIB Traderumors….Westcoastryan!
We’re all crazy and he’s the smartest buy in the room.
No, just you. Setting a new standard…
Oh a comment from the peanut gallery….or should I say the nut bin.
Please stop. If you want to insult people there’s plenty of places on the internet to do that.
Smartest buy? Since when am I for sale?
I consider you in the mark down bin.
I remember seeing Cashner throw 100 and striking out the side in a game against the Dodgers in 2012 and thinking he could be a great closer. Vin Scully said something about that too. What happened to him?
The Cubs had him relieving at one point as well. He kept getting hurt then too
Thoughts and prayers.