Matt Wieters suffered a laceration that required stitches to his left (non-throwing) arm earlier this offseason but is fully healthy with Spring Training on the horizon, agent Scott Boras tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
Rosenthal spoke to Boras about the circumstances that have led to Wieters remaining on the open market, and the agent acknowledged that his client’s poor pitch-framing metrics likely have impacted his free-agent stock. However, Boras also noted that framing numbers are impacted by the velocity of the pitcher, seemingly indicating that they might not be as dependable as some make them out to be. Says Boras:
“…Because the hitters have to commit early, because you have big velo, your command comes from actually learning to throw balls — hitters often swing at ’em. That’s why velo pitchers are very, very effective in the ERA category with a catcher, but their framing statistics are going to be well less than the norm.”
There may well be merit to Boras’ claims that velocity significantly impacts pitch-framing metrics — he’s not the first to suggest as much — but the parallel that’s being drawn seems out of place. The Orioles, as a staff, tied for 18th in overall fastball velocity last season, so it seems somewhat counter-intuitive to point out that higher-velocity arms can lead to dubious framing grades. If softer-tossing arms generally portend superior framing marks for their catchers, one would expect Wieters to have somewhat of an edge over those that caught harder-throwing staffs. Instead, he’s been consistently below-average in that regard for the past several seasons. The O’s have never been one of the 10 hardest-throwing teams in baseball in that time, with the exception of the 2014 campaign, in which Wieters played just 26 games.
ESPN’s Buster Olney wrote today that Wieters’ best chance at landing a notable contract at this point could be to wait until an injury arises in either Spring Training or the World Baseball Classic that could create an opportunity. Wieters has been tied to the Nationals and the Angels all winter long, it seems, but Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post recently appeared on Olney’s Baseball Tonight Podcast (audio link) and explained that the Nats are largely set on Derek Norris entering the season as the starter behind the dish. Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register, meanwhile, wrote earlier this morning that if Wieters does end up with the Halos, it’d likely have to be on a one-year deal at a discount rate.
Boras tells Rosenthal that Wieters’ market has only truly begun to take shape in the past month, but he unsurprisingly offers no indication of a potential asking price. (Rosenthal notes that “even a $50 million deal is probably a stretch,” though I’d contend that’s been the case all offseason.) Wieters would be far from the first Boras client to secure a surprising multi-year deal late in the offseason, so it’s certainly possible that the market for his services is more robust than most reports indicate at present. However, while the majority of theoretical suitors listed by Rosenthal in his column — the Orioles, Nats, Mets, Rockies, Rays, Angels, D-backs and White Sox — all make sense on paper, it’s also difficult to see any from that group breaking the bank on a multi-year deal barring an injury elsewhere on the staff.
milkman
Derek Norris hit .186 last year. He can’t hit a broad side of a barn.
redking
He’ not that great of a defensive catcher either. The Nationals did the Padres a favor taking him off their hands.
alexgordonbeckham
White Sox 1-year deal…go
angeltrout27
That is GREAT news for the Halos!! Now that the Nats are basically uninterested in Weiters they are definitely in on him! If they get him its a certain playoff spot! YAY FOR WEITERS!!
sizzle
Hey I mean as an angels fan I like the enthusiasm but I don’t even see us being .500 tbh
halos101
big if, but if richards elbow doesn’t get rehurt than we are easily above .500
jdgoat
I think they can compete, but wieners sucks
jdgoat
Or maybe not suck, but he isn’t what’s going to make or break their season
chesteraarthur
wieners a typo or on purpose?
jdgoat
Lol just noticed that
angelsfan4life
Wieters and the Angels make sense on both sides. Would give the Angels a solid catcher until Ward is ready for the majors. Also gives the Angels another switch hitter. Wieters would be guaranteed the starting job. Wieters also would give Scioscia the kind catcher he likes.
adrianmane
Ward isn’t even one of our top 10 prospects. Mayor of Bust City.
angelsfan4life
Calhoun wasn’t a top prospect. Conger was. So just because someone isn’t a top prospect, doesn’t mean that he won’t be good in the majors. Just like someone that is a top prospect, doesn’t mean that they will be good in the majors.
pieboy
adrianmane
Ward is 100% one of our top 10 prospects
wtf are you talking about
alt2tab
I think it makes more sense for the Angels to stick with the solid pitch framing abilities of Maldonado/Perez at catcher to make up for the inefficiencies in their rotation/bullpen. Blowing money on Wieters would only accomplish benefits on the offensive side and that should not be the primary concern for the Angels currently.
cmancoley
I don’t have Ward as one of our top 10 prospects. But still i haven’t lost complete hope for him just yet
angelsfan4life
I find it funny, some Angels fans are ready to give up on Ward after only one full season in the minors. Even though he showed improvement. Yet after 3 years Cron has shown no signs of improvement. Yet most Angels fans keep talking how good he might be. Conger was getting worse the more he played, yet most Angels fans kept saying he wasn’t getting a fair chance. Ward is unbelievably good defensively, maybe he will keep improving. Maybe he won’t. But I’m not going to sit here and give up on him after one full season in the minors.
ryanw-2
The current Angels catching depth chart at FanGraphs is projected at 2.8 WAR, which is not bad overall for a committee. Wieters himself is going to produce so where between 1.5-2.5 WAR in his normal 120-140 game season. That being said, signing Wieters would not necessarily add value, unless he were to have one of his best seasons in around 130 games. It would basically be the same. However, he would push Perez out of his role and would probably force some kind of trade package, perhaps for a young mid-to-backend starter similar to Nick Tropeano. That could potentially be the move that could potentially add more value to their roster. Basically, Wieters would likely just reallocate value from offense to defense, but would most likely lead to the move that brings in pitching that would actually add value. This has been Billy Eppler’s approach all offseason, so I think that’s why they could or should sign Wieters.
SashaBanksFan
I believe he is ranked #4. And I would give up on baldoquin before ward
ryanw-2
Uhh… Got some auto correct issues?
RunDMC
Gotta give Boras credit for trying his hardest and getting creative with “facts” to sell his clients.
hopespringseternal
Boras is working hard. Gotta make up for the prices he told his clients he would get them. He misread the market. Just like a lot of people did.
User 4245925809
The dude sure missed his chance to be a politician for sure. he has all the traits.. natural liar. Good at money grubbing.. He’d have been a shoe in.
Gogerty
Making millions as an agent, think he is holding off for political run.
LADreamin
Being a high end agent is probably more lucrative for him lol
vtadave
I find it hard to believe that a contending team would really enter the season with Derek Norris as their starting catcher. Guy hit .186/.255/.328 for a -0.4 WAR and 55 wRC+. Those are hideous numbers. Guy couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat.
Travis’ Wood
He was a 2+ fWAR player for three straight years before 2016. and is only 27 years old. There’s reason to believe he can bounce back.
crashdavis
Everything was consistent with his career numbers just a down year. I don’t think Babip is all it was but his line drive % was normal.
seamaholic 2
It’s not low velo that leads to good catcher framing numbers, it’s good command. Especially for a pitcher who likes to live on the corners. And both those things (good command, living on corners) tend to be found in low velo pitchers. If a pitcher is constantly hitting the catcher’s glove, he gets more calls. This seems pretty obvious.
Steve Adams
I don’t think it’s quite so simple to attribute framing marks to velocity, command, or any one factor. Both of those, I’m sure, play a role. So does the catcher’s height, probably the length of the pitcher’s reach and his release point as well. There are a great many factors at play, but it does seem to be a skill that’s dependent largely on the catcher himself.
Caleb Joseph typically has strong framing marks on the same team as Wieters, for instance. Tucker Barnhart was only slightly below-average last year despite the Reds posting a higher walk rate than any team in baseball. Derek Norris and Tyler Flowers both posted strong framing numbers on teams whose pitchers were wild/lacked command.
I don’t doubt that it’d be easier to frame Greg Maddux than Ubaldo Jimenez, but I also believe there’s a great deal of skill involved on the receiving end of the equation.
angeltrout27
I have no idea why everyone including Angels fans are saying that they are not even going to make it over .500! I don’t get it! You look at their lineup and defense at every position and I’m sure that that team is going to make the playoffs this year!
Escobar
Calhoun
Trout
Pujols/Valbuena (if Pujols can’t make the opening day roster)
Cron
Maybin
Simmons
Espinosa
Maldonado. Just look at it! Any flaws in defense (besides Escobar)? None. Offense is above average but pitching is the only weak spot. Wood would fix some of that.
jordanjee
I’ve learned it’s par for the course, as far as many halos fans go. Now, I am not ready to say that they are a lock for the division, but they should certainly be competitive in the AL West and in the WC race. Like you said, it will come down to pitching and of course health.
The Halos will certainly be over .500. The moves made this offseason are the closest resemblance to Soscia’s style of small-ball Halos fans have seen in a while. At least the scrappy type of players we all used to love watching during the early 2000’s.
Hen1CHC
Staff still have some serious question marks, plus that seemingly is a competitive division with Rangers and mariners looking to be above average
adrianmane
How could Wood fix some of that? I agree they will be above .500, but a pitcher in limbo of starting/relief is far from the solution.
pd14athletics
I respect the faith in your team. I always look at the positives for my team as well. Gotta say though as a division rival it has always peeved me the love among writers that the Angels typically get. Aside from 2014 I believe every year they have finished 3rd or 4th in the Trout era. Still it seemed like every year following each 3rd place finish people would tag them as division or wild card favorites. I think that’s just caught up to them, they are going to have to show themselves before people give them that recognition again. I really liked the Espinosa move, and the Simmons move the year before. With him healthy that’s a filthy good defensive middle infield. The question is the pitching staff.
JrodFunk5
The Rangers, Mariners and Astros are all significantly better than the Angels. The Angels have one of the worst rotations in baseball and have one hitter who qualifies as above average (although he is the best player in baseball). Wieters is a perfect fit, another desperation move to go along with Maybin, Revere, Lincecum, valbuena, etc etc
ryanw-2
Your evaluation is pretty false. None of the rotations featured by the Astros, Mariners, or Rangers are good enough to qualify as a safe pick. They all have major holes in their pitching staffs. The Rangers also only had a 8 run differential in 2016 and 13th in the AL in ERA the last two seasons. The Astros can’t hit. They rely way too much on walks, stolen bases, and HR’s. The Mariners are totally unproven. Most of the hitters in the Angels lineup are above average or better overall, and signing Wieters would just be a way of reallocating value from defense to offense and with another switch hitter. The Angels are not making desperate moves. They chose to make moves to help them bounce back. That’s what you do when you’re a high market ball club. Farm systems come and go all the time. But the Angels have the money to regroup in one offseason. There’s a reason FanGraphs has them projected as the top WC spot for some time now.
adamsessler
“…reallocating value from defense to offense…”??? You know Weiters is a 2x GG winner, right?
Also, LAA’s rotation is loaded w/ questions.
RIchards is recovering from a torn UCL, & used an experimental procedure to treat it, so who knows if he’ll last the season.
Shoemaker is coming off an injury (fractured skull).
Heaney is out til late 2017.
Nolasco is a journeyman w/ a career 4.52 ERA.
Skaggs had a 4.17 ERA last season, which was the BEST of his short career.
Meyer, LAA’s projected #5 SP, hasn’t proven he’s a big league SP.
There’s not 1 guy in that rotation, NOT 1, who you can say is a sure thing next season. Yes, Richards may make it thru the whole season & be the ace we know he can be. Shoemaker may have no ill effects from being hit in the head. Nolasco may pitch outstanding like he did in the 11 games he pitched w/ LAA, & not like he has most of his career. Skaggs & Meyer may prove themselves to be legit ML pitchers. But you can’t say you have much confidence that ANY of these things will happen. That’s a lot of uncertainty, which is why they have 1 of the worst rotations in the division.
Phattey
Are you high?
seamaholic 2
Mostly agreed. But I’m not sure the whole exercise is really useful yet, until we can tease out how much of the effect is owned by the catcher, and how much the pitcher. The impact is already pretty small except in extreme cases. Take out the pitcher’s part, and how much is really left and how easily is it overcome by other catcher defensive skills (not to mention offense)?
chesteraarthur
Ha nice try Boras, don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative. I find the guy repulsive, but he does a hell of a job for the majority of his clients.
davidcoonce74
Repulsive for doing his job? That’s quite an odd thing to say.
joeybats19
Who’s gonna sign Matt Wieters?
jordanjee
Colorado for 2 years
cmancoley
I’d take who the Rockies have slotted over Wieters any day
SimplyAmazin91
White Sox could pick him up and flip him at the deadline.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I think the ‘framing’ game is a bunch of horse meat.
The Orioles got to the playoffs with Wieters, they got to the playoffs without him.
What I feel bad about to an extent is that he worked really hard the off-season before his Tommy John Surgery on his swing, he was swing the bat well and then he lost it all afterwards. The bottom-line is that pitchers have to throw strikes, end of story
As to where he might wind up signing, I have no idea.
Arte can’t stand Boras, the Nationals are happy with Norris and he might have a bounceback year so…. I really have no idea as to where Wieters might sign, maybe with the O’s, a lot of fans like me want him back, however it probably is not realistic.
McGlynnandjuice
Why do you want him back if they have another competent catcher in Castillo and have proven they can make it to the playoffs without Weiters?
citizen
I bet borat is asking way too much for weiters and teams just aren’t as desperate to shell out $100mm contract anymore.
Breezy
In the case of Wieters, pitcher velo has nothing to do with it. He just sucks.
tomrantmore
Would love for the Mets to scoop this guy up on a short term deal. Catcher along with center are our glaring weaknesses. Defensively D’Arnaud is a disaster and if his bat doesn’t return he’s dead weight.
Having a vet to mentor him and work with this pitching staff would do wonders. Lock him up Sandy.
tuna411
Sounds like another jason varitek moment happening…
JFactor
Remember when this guy was talked about as if he was the Chuck Norris of baseball?
I member
YourDaddy
If Norris is the Nationals starting catcher their season is over before it begins. Their team ERA will skyrocket and the number of stolen bases against them will go through the roof. Go to Vegas and put your money on the Mets to take the NL East today.
davidcoonce74
Oh, so catcher ERA is still a thing. Hmmm.
mike156
If Matt Wieters hadn’t been touted as a budding superstar years ago, and marketed and priced as a star even now, perhaps people wouldn’t be looking at the last four years and wondering what the hullabaloo was all about, In that case he could have looked for a decent one-year contract to rebuild his value and then signed one last big contract for the balance of his useful career. Boras was marketing the 2011/2012 Wieters. It’s not clear that Wieters exists anymore
jaysfan1988
How do you know what he was doing? You tap his phone lines?
halos101
i do not want the angels to sign wieters one bit
pieboy
I literally have no idea why the Angels haven’t signed him yet….we have no offense coming from the catching position, we have 2 defensive catchers….last year our offense was bad, Eppler needs to sign him
wiggysf
Weiters doesn’t help any team’s offense .
adamsessler
Seriously??? Weiters last yr. hit .243/.302/.409
Maldonado, the Angels’ current starting catcher hit .202/.332/.351, & has a career slash line of .217/.299/.351.
The Angels’ other catcher, Perez, hit .209/.244/.325, & has a career slash line of .229/.271/.335.
Yeah, the Angels’ catching situation is just peachy… They couldn’t use a 4x All Star, 2x Gold Glove winner, at all…