6:31pm: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the MRI results show that Reyes will likely require Tommy John surgery. The right-hander will seek a second opinion before making a final decision. FanRag’s Jon Heyman tweets that he’ll get the second opinion tomorrow, but there’s only an “outside chance” that Reyes will avoid surgery.
3:13pm: Reyes is headed for a second opinion, but the preliminary diagnosis appears to show at least a partial tear of his ulnar collateral ligament, according to ESPN.com’s Jim Bowden. It remains somewhat unclear whether doctors have clearly identified new tearing, as Reyes does have prior UCL damage dating back to 2013. At this point, though, it seems a TJ procedure is likely, per the report.
12:42pm: There is “significant concern inside the Cardinals’ organization” that Reyes may require Tommy John surgery, according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (via Twitter).
12:16pm: Cardinals righty Alex Reyes has undergone an MRI after informing the team that he has experienced discomfort in his pitching elbow, GM John Mozeliak tells MLB.com’s Jenifer Langosch (all links to Twitter). The prized righty had his scheduled pen session today scratched after failing to receive medical clearance.
The degree of concern is not yet apparent, though the team surely is holding its breath. Mozeliak hastened to note that the club would “wait until tomorrow when we get the [MRI] read” instead of offering any speculation. But there were notes of concern, too. “There must be a significant reason to do this,” manager Mike Matheny noted.
While a rush to judgment would indeed be unwise, it’s important to stress the importance of the 22-year-old to the Cardinals organization — both now and in the future. Already considered a fascinating talent, Reyes boosted the roof on expectations when he turned in 46 innings of 1.57 ERA ball upon receiving his first MLB call last year.
Now, Reyes is expected to fill a key role in a Cards rotation that has plenty of talent but also some questions behind just-extended staff ace Carlos Martinez. Pitchers such as Michael Wacha, Lance Lynn, and Marco Gonzales face varying health questions; Adam Wainwright and Mike Leake will be looking to bounce back after rocky campaigns; and Reyes and Luke Weaver lead a cast of promising younger arms that aren’t yet fully established in the majors.
babyk79
My prayers are with him and the Cardinals, very scary waiting game
billysbballz
Scary waiting game? This is an elbow injury, it’s not life or death. Are you serious? He will survive and so will the Cardinals.
Vedder80
No kidding.
Travis’ Wood
Please please don’t be serious
KCelts
I already know how this season is going to go…. -__-
ronnsnow
Well, I’m guessing torn ulnar collateral ligament season is underway. Sad.
KCelts
Looks like you’re right. Damn… 🙁
SupremeZeus
Rut-Rho.
Robertowannabe
Rastro—-Tralfaz, YUCK!!!
Vedder80
So, based upon the Cardinals history with injuries, he is fine now and just needs to be shut down for a couple weeks but then come 2 months into the season he will need surgery.
relic
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
relic
If Reyes is out, then either Wacha stays in the ‘pen or Weaver gets the call.
KCelts
Don’t discount Marco Gonzales either. Apparently he may now have a shot. Or… Trevor Rosenthal seems serious about a move to the rotation, though I personally hope that is a last resort move.
relic
Good point about Rosie. I’d forgotten about his goal to become a starter.
Cardinals17
I like the thought of giving Rosenthal a chance at starting. Think back…when Matheney said that relievers Rosenthal and Martinez were in competition for the 5th starting position a few spring trainings back, Rosenthal actually had the better starting stats, but the organization stated that they couldn’t afford to move Rosenthal out of the closers position at that time. Therefore, Martinez got the job. Give him a shot. What have they got to lose???
chieftoto
Ruh roh raggie
metseventually 2
He ded
relic
Time to sign a free agent starter for depth. Too many injury question marks with Wacha and Marco Gonzales.
JFactor
Forget about Weaver?
Without Reyes the depth chart looks like this
1. Martinez
2. Wainwright
3. Lynn
4. Leaks
5. Wacha
6. Weaver
7. Gonzales
8. Lyons
KCelts
Lyons won’t start unless it’s an extreme emergency. He has thrived as a bullpen arm. Actually, I think he is starting the season on the shelf as well from surgery.
I think at this point, Wacha becomes the 5, like you said, but don’t discount Weaver, Gonzales, or Mayers. Heck even Rosenthal wants to be a starter so throw him in as well.
CompanyAssassin
I’d trust Rosenthal over Wacha right now. He did great in his multi-inning game last season.
KCelts
To be fair, I trust the batting practice pitcher more than Wacha right now. Wacha looked lost last season.
SupremeZeus
Smoke everywhere. Sounds like Reyes will need surgery. Just waiting for the redbirds to confirm and the national guys to start tweeting it later today or tomorrow. “National radio host for Sirius XM, Craig Mish has tweeted that he has been told it is a potentially season-ending injury for Reyes. Mish was also the first to break the news last August when Alex Reyes was originally called up to the major leagues.”
Robertowannabe
Agree, does not sound good for Mr. Reyes.
lesterdnightfly
Bill Smith:
So you’d prefer a shutdown on news? Or just on bad news?
Robertowannabe
Confused—Where does Bill Smith say he prefers a shutdown on news?? I read the comment a couple extra times and all he is saying is that where there is smoke there is fire and smoke everywhere on this story. He is waiting for the Cards to confirm the news that it is bad and waiting for the national sports people start tweeting about it. How is that preferring a shutdown on news??
seamaholic 2
Hope it’s not the worst, but if it is, chalk another one up for the “velocity kills” theory of elbow injuries.
ImDaBaron
Potentially this could turn them to trade for Quintana. I doubt it does but it’s a possibility now.
chesteraarthur
seriously?
ImDaBaron
What isnt serious about speculating about it? Q has been on the trade block for months. It’s connecting dots at this point. Plus it’ll be leverage against the Pirates. It makes some sense.
chesteraarthur
Because not every article with anything even tangentially related to pitching needs a WS fan talking about how this increases suitors for Q.
Also, losing reyes takes a huge chunk out of the assets that the cards would have to trade.
Travis’ Wood
Cardinals would not have traded a healthy Reyes for Quintana
RunDMC
tangentially – Thank you for providing my required 5-syllable word of the day.
stl_cards16 2
The Cardinals still have Martinez, Wainwright, Lynn, Leake, Wacha, Weaver, Gant, Gonzales as starters. Unless the White Sox are wanting to take a package led by Luke Weaver…..I still don’t see the Cardinals coming close to the White Sox asking price
ImDaBaron
Oh so just whining then. Got it. You could have just let off with that.
ImDaBaron
Agreed. Which is why I said it would be unlikely. Still interesting to ponder though.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Pirates aren’t paying that sticker price.
And the Reyes injury explains exactly why…
Why trade a bunch of pieces for ONE arm that could need a TJ at any minute?
Only a true contender poised to win immediately, like the Red Sox, should ever pay a premium for one arm.
jackt
Tan-gen-chall-ee
pjmcnu
4
tim815
Mmmmmkay. I’ll play along.
What would the Cardinals offer that the White Sox would accept?
Start with Mags Sierra.
cws2021
Bader, Sierra, Hudson, Lotto.
cws2021
Totally hypothetical for fun because this trade is not happening.
floridapinstripes
Not 1 top 100 prospect. At least the guy below realized that Kelly, weaver and Perez would have to be included. You probably need a pitcher so alcanatara as well.
CompanyAssassin
I could see a Weaver, Perez, Hudson, and Plummer maybe? Trade working possibly.
cws2021
Kelly is the future C after Yadi, they won’t trade him. I don’t want Weaver. And Hudson is 1st rd RHP with good stuff. Sierra and Bader aren’t top 100 but aren’t far off. I could see all 3 of them on top 100 by years end. Throw in the lotto would be enough
floridapinstripes
I know what Kelly is. The point is without him you can’t make a trade.
floridapinstripes
Not even close. They want quality not quantity.
floridapinstripes
Reyes ( before he got hurt)and Kelly wouldn’t be enough. Plus Hudson and Plummer might do it.
CompanyAssassin
Good lord I hope so, but knowing mozeliak I don’t know if he would.
Vedder80
No it isn’t. The trade chip required is the kid going to have an MRI.
smelliott00
Regardless, the cardinals never would’ve given up Reyes – in any trade. The guy that it would likely take is Carson Kelly, and I don’t see the Cardinals giving him up in any deal either. He is the clear successor to Yadier Molina.
mattdsmith
It’s less of a possibility now because Reyes was the only prospect that would have started the conversation for the White Soz
pjmcnu
Quintana will be a ChiSock until at least trade deadline, unless they drop their price. BoSox deal and highway robbery of Nats has convinced them they can get every team’s best prospect for whatever decent chip they dangle. Quintana is a #3. Two or three decent prospects, not someone like Reyes. Kelly (BA #65 or so), fine. But not a Reyes, etc.
Priggs89
You could’ve just said, “I don’t know what I’m talking about.” That would’ve saved a lot of time.
comebacktrail28
Quintana would be a #1 on Cardinals lol
Vedder80
Really? You seem to be underestimating Martinez.
daved
No. Quintana has 4 straight seasons of 200+ innings pitched. His ERA in those 4 seasons has been between 3.20 and 3.51, all while pitching in the AMERICAN LEAGUE and on bad teams. Quintana would be my #1 and Martinez #2.
Priggs89
While I don’t think it really matters who is “#1” or “#2,” you seem to be underestimating Quintana… Outside of ERA he has been better than Martinez in each of the last 2 years in pretty much everything important…
*Only using last 2 years because those are the only 2 that Martinez has pitched over 100 innings.
Quintana has pitched more innings with a lower FIP, lower WHIP, and higher SO/W. He has had a much higher fWAR (bWAR’s are almost identical).
chesteraarthur
Ugh, that sucks. I was really looking forward to watching him pitch this season. Hopefully this isn’t serious and wont bother him all season, but anytime i hear discomfort in elbow i would get super worried.
Oh story was updated, sounding even worse.
mcdusty31
Yikes…not good news for the Red Birds
a1544
What happened to lance Lynn
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
He was out because of TJ last year.
stl_cards16 2
Well that’s depressing. I guess the good news (if you can find some) is if he has the surgery soon, he can have a full recovery and be ready to go for 2018. But damn.
CubsFanForLife
Man, such a great talent, I really hope that TJS isn’t required.
SamFuldsFive
As a Cubs fan I say good, but as a baseball fan that sucks.
lesterdnightfly
Sometimes one needs to rise above petty jealousies. This would be a good time to start.
Best wishes for his health from a rival team’s baseball fan.
SamFuldsFive
Jealous of what exactly?
Mikel Grady
As a cub fan I say terrible news as a fan terrible news. Hope he recovers speedy and fully
RunDMC
Top position prospect (on many prospect lists) Yoan Moncada is traded & top pitching prospect, Alex Reyes, might have to have TJ surgery — this has been an offseason to remember.
kiddhoff
Did I not read a while back that Rosenthal would be conditioned to be a SP? Or was that a dream?
stl_cards16 2
Yes, he’s preparing as a starter. Most think they are going to prepare him as a starter then use him as a multiple inning reliever.
daved
Oh I bet the sheeple are in the fetal position right now in St. Louis.
Kane U.
What a f**king joke.
daved
What is a joke?
justacubsfan
Get well soon Alex Reyes. Cardinals fans were worse than the Cubs before this, and now they’re significantly worse. Would this be his first TJ?
spudchukar
Uh, yeah.
armsiderun14
What do “Cardinals fans” have to do with his injury? I’m hoping that was a typo and not a poor attempt to troll.
relic
Why do Cubs fans have such trouble spelling and speaking simple English? “Cardinals fans were worse… before injury.”
What?
davbee
And boom goes the dynamite.
What
We lose a major piece during Spring Training every year. Damn.
norcalblue
Always a shock and sobering to read these reports. Wishing Alex the very best.
baseball365
Very unfortunately any way you look at it. While I rarely, if ever, post on here, I’ve been vocal on various other platforms about pitching prospects along with their value in trades, etc. I’m unfathomably low on pitching prospects these days. I don’t care how high a rating they are, their overall propensity for injury or to flame out is probably somewhere around 80%. If you have 5 top pitching prospects you’d be lucky if just one makes any impact at the MLB level. This is in part why I felt like the Red Sox fleeced the White Sox on the Sale trade — which to me was just Moncada for Sale and if the Yankees wanted too, they could have beaten that trade twice over. Then again, value in the WSox trading Sale as I’m not at all bullish on his arm right now. I could see him spending 20 of the next 36 months on the DL.
You always, always, always trade pitching prospects when their value is up in my opinion. I’m just one opinion. Look at what the Nat’s gave up for Eaton. You could argue that the Nat’s followed my rule. The Braves are the best example of all of this. They traded Miller for an incredible haul, position player heavy deal. But look at the Braves of all of the 2000’s. Year after year had top end pitching prospects and almost all, incredibly, didn’t work out.
In fact, I admire the Braves the most at the moment. I hope it works out for them. How they are building a team is exactly how I would. Heavy on young position talent and buy older, durable pitchers for a year or two.
seamaholic 2
Huh? The Braves’ system is exactly the opposite of what you recommend. It’s basically all pitchers, except for a couple middle infielders.
chesteraarthur
i was going to say the same thing. A better example would be the cubs who focused pretty much exclusively on position player talent or the astros who while less extreme than the cubs approach looked at hitters too.
I agree with his overall point though. Pitching prospects are less valuable than their position player counterparts. You can see that in the average production break down on point of Pittsburgh. 1-10 hitters and pitchers are pretty similar, but after that the success of hitters is a lot better.
thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-prospect-surplus-valu….
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The Cubs have the luxury of buying their pitchers in free agency, though.
A team like the Pirates can’t do that. Drafting and developing is the only way they can get a top of the rotation arm.
I think a hybrid approach might be best (for teams who can’t buy pitching). Draft bats in the first 2 or 3 rounds when they are safer bets and then draft a bunch of high school pitchers.
chesteraarthur
That is actually what the cubs have done. Bat heavy at the top then lots of arms in the rest of the draft.
The cubs don’t seem like an ideal team to use as your buy pitching example either. Lester is making decent money, but not what recent torps have got and they got arrietta and hendricks in trades.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
Wow that would be terrible.
spudchukar
This is a gut shot. Watching him blow away Big League hitters, down the stretch, in important games last year gave Cards’ fans reason to expect similar results this year. On the bright side, they do still have options few teams would have. Waino, Lynn, Martinez, Leake, are solid rotation staples, with Wacha and Weaver now battling for the 5th spot. If they struggle, Gonzales could be in the discussion, and Lyons should be available by May at the latest. Gomber may also get some attention if necessary. But still Reyes looked to be acelike.
TradeAcuna
I knew the Cards were finished after their fiasco with the Astros was over. They go downhill from here!
cardfan2011
NOOOO!!!! I was so excited to see him this season 🙁
InPolesWeTrust
Horrible news for AR and the Cards. Godspeed on the recovery! Tough break for a young stud. Was looking forward to watching him and Martinez dominate hitters!
SupremeZeus
Revised PECOTA projections aren’t pretty for the redbirds. Too soon?
sportingdissent
The Cardinals better get the White Sox on the phone about Quintana
house71
Do the cardinals have enough prospects to get Q?
postcards
Yes, but it would hurt the farm significantly. I don’t think it would be worth it IMO, but others disagree.
jdgoat
Reyes would’ve been what Chicago wanted though
house71
What would it take to get Q?
chieftoto
I disagree… I don’t think they have enough in the farm to get Q
ronnsnow
No they don’t. Kolten Wong + other crap isn’t enough to get it done.
Priggs89
I think they have enough, but it won’t be cheap. Keep in mind that the White Sox REALLY want a top notch catching prospect.
Something like Kelly, Weaver, Bader and/or Perez, plus a lower-level upside arm would probably get it done (if it’s just one of Bader/Perez, add the extra arm – if it’s both, nothing else would be added).
And NO Kolten Wong.
floridapinstripes
Not even close. If you compare it to the sale trade. Moncada is top 5 and kopech is top 20.
JFactor
If he needs surgery, I hope what Maness did would be an option.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
I’m not sure that’s the best options if it’s significantly torn just fix it. The madness surgery is going to nix him for the season regardless plus you’re betting his career on an iffy proposition. I can see if he was around the age where he just hanging on and wants to extend his career but he’s not.
mrmariner
Hopefully it isn’t that serious and he can use the same rehab as Seth maness has used and get back quickly
robertj53086
This is a tough pill to swallow this early
66TheNumberOfTheBest
We’ve supposedly made amazing advancements in sports science, nutrition, physiology, etc. etc. etc. over the past few decades.
And yet the guys who smoked and drank all night and had to jog for 6 months at spring training to get in shape pitched 300 innings a year.
Why is that?
Priggs89
I’d assume it has something to do with most of them not throwing as hard, therefor not putting as much stress on their arms. No idea though.
And we have made amazing advancements in all of those things.
davidcoonce74
They didn’t throw nearly as hard then as pitchers throw now. I’m not sure what era you’re referring to, probably the 40s/50s/60s, but even then most pitchers were washed up by the time they were 30 or so. There were guys like Gaylord Perry who pitched a long time but he didn’t throw hard.. Guys like Koufax and McDowell, who threw really hard, were cashed out before they were 30.. Koufax retired at 30 and to this day can’t straighten his elbow.
relic
Hmmm, can we trade for Jaime Garcia?
I’m joking.
But don’t rule out the guy we got back from the Braves in that trade – John Gant.
Gogerty
He was the one guy this offseason I hated to lose.
daved
You can most definitely rule him out as a starter this year in STL
callmemabry
Remember how Wainwright went down in spring training in 2011 and everything seemed terrible? That year finished OK as I recall. You never know…
daved
Too bad there’s no Pujols, Holliday, Chris Carpenter, Berkman, Freese, and a younger Molina on this team.
Damakibe
Glad KC added Hammel, Wood when they did!
vinscully16
These young pitchers are throwing too hard. Sounds oversimplified, but the root cause of this elbow plague is throwing too hard. You just can’t throw 99mph all night, the human arm has not suddenly evolved to accommodate such a strain.
cplovespie
I’m a Dodgers fan but still feel sorry for him. As an overall fan of the MLB seeing young players grow to their potential is always fun…
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’m a WS and Cubs fan and I agree. I wanted to see what he could do in his first full big-league season. I hope he comes back strong next year.
ghost of harambe
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
KB R.
As I grow older I find myself feeling bad for players even from other teams when news like this breaks. It has to suck, especially when it happens on pretty much the first days of spring training. Not only for the player but the team and the fans………….. that said the immature fan in me can’t help but be a bit happy. I as a Cubs fan can’t help but see the good news in this. After last season the Cards were leaning pretty hard on Martinez and Reyes this year while hoping for big bounce back seasons from Wacha and Wainwright while hoping Lynn returns to form after he is coming off TJ surgery himself. Can Martinez turn back the clock to former MLB eras and start like 45 games for the Cards, haha. That’s pretty much their best hope. Looks like starting pitching could be a weakness again for them (YAY!!)
So what’s their rotation now, Martinez, Wainwright, Lynn, Leake, and Wacha…….. Pretty happy to hear that sitting here in the Chicago burbs. Cubs are going to own this division again. Won the division last year by 17.5 games. I’m thinking 20+ this year.
Back to my more rational and mature side, this sucks for Reyes. So promising. Feel bad for him. Almost feel bad for Cardinals fans……. but they need a few decades of struggling. Builds character. Another offseason of a lack of impactful moves look to bite them in the a**. Bet they wish they signed Rich Hill now. Maybe they can continue to heavily rely on their system and hope another prospect pans out….. like Luke Weaver.
puigpower
Boo.
relic
Have fun with Jay and Heyward in that outfield. 😉
daved
If that stiff, Jay, gets more than 200 at bats, then Maddon is the biggest, moron manager in baseball. Jay can’t run, can’t hit for power, can’t throw, his defense is mediocre, yet he somehow has the media thinking he’s Willie Mays out there? The guy might be the most overpaid player in baseball at $8MM, and that’s saying a lot considering how many guys are overpaid. If they don’t give Almora 120 starts and 500 at bats in CF, then something must be wrong with him. No way he loses out playing time to Jon Jay!
Breezy
Just get the surgery now. No sense in thinking that time will let it heal on its own, they’d just be prolonging the inevitable. Just ask Tanaka.
davidcoonce74
Tanaka was one of the best pitchers in baseball last season.
Breezy
I didn’t say anything about Tanaka playing poorly, or Reyes playing poorly if he doesn’t get the surgery.
davidcoonce74
Ervin Santana has been pitching with a partially torn UCl for about 8 seasons now.
filthyrich
Can he throw a knuckler??? RA Dickey doesn’t even have a UCL?!
daved
Who?
hzt502
Hasn’t Reyes been doing the same thing since 2011/2012? I’m no doctor but there’s clearly a point where pitching with that kind of injury is no longer feasible. Pretty amazing that Ervin’s arm has held up so long though.
Megadro2000
Hope for the best for Alex. If the cards don’t go get Quintana they will sink in the division faster than lightning strikes the earth. -Tigers Fan
chesteraarthur
Surprised there hasn’t been a comment by themed yet about how the cards are still gonna win the division.
jdgoat
He’ll throw in something about if Hendricks got hurt for the season the Cubs would be guarenteed to come last in the division too
moe 3
Damn
bluejaysfan316
As a blue jays fan, i hope the best for alex reyes, this has really scared me about my aaron sanchez
jleve618
They say he has a high risk delivery too. I have no idea myself, but, that’s what they say.
tbone0816
I wouldn’t mind: Jake Peavy, Matt Latos, or Jared Weaver to a 1 year deal it at least gives a veteran presence in the rotation.
daved
I would mind.
scorp2780
Does this injury suffered cause him to accrue Major League service time? Thanks in advance.
therealryan
Yeah. He’ll be on the MLB DL this year and get a full season of service time.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Watching Manny Machado for 5 years while waiting for Jameson Taillon to overcome all of his injuries wasn’t all that fun, but…at least he didn’t start his MLB clock. Now, he’s under club control for the entire prime of his career.
therealryan
I hope Reyes has a full and speedy recovery, but I’m still not sure if he was ready to be the next great MLB pitcher before this injury. He obviously has all the talent in the world and his ceiling is as high as anybody, but he has never gotten on top of his control, let alone shown command of his pitches. The list of MLB pitchers who succeed with BB% >10% is almost nonexistent, yet Reyes has never been below 11% at any level and was at 11% in AAA and 12.2% in MLB last season. Hopefully he can make a full recovery and learn to harness his talent by 2019.
stryk3istrukuout
True, but at some point it just clicks for a lot of guys. Randy Johnson was throwing 100 walks a season for years before coming into his own. Arrieta was mostly over 4 walks per 9 innings prior to 2014. Obviously, those are odd cases given the time it took to put it all together, but yeah. Just saying. You have a point, but he seemed up for the task in his stint last season
jth986
I may be wrong, but it sure does feel like the Cardinals starting pitchers have Tommy John surgery more so than other teams. I’d love to see a statistic on this. Cardinals need to alter something that they are doing to protect their pictures.
jth986
**pitchers.
daved
If the Cards can’t replace a guy projected to pitch roughly 120 innings, then they aren’t as deep with decent pitching as we think.
Cardinals17
Since Dave Duncan left, how many pitchers have the Cardinals lost to major injuries or physical set backs. Something is wrong somewhere. It always seems to happen after they are brought up to the main team!