While Mariners outfielder Mitch Haniger wasn’t the headliner in the November trade that saw him go from Arizona to Seattle, the M’s have high hopes for the 26-year-old, writes Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune. A 2012 first-round pick and former Brewers prospect, Haniger hit a below-average .229/.309/.404 in the first 129 plate appearances of his major league career last season, though his video game-like .341/.428/.670 line in 312 Triple-A PAs wowed Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto. “By the numbers, (Haniger) was able to show that he was the best offensive player (last year) in the minor leagues at any level,” said Dipoto. “He’s also a right-handed batter, and we acquired him for that reason. Mitch is also the one that brings with him a skill set that includes power, and he’s got on-base ability.” Dipoto expects Haniger to serve as the Mariners’ everyday right fielder this year, which would leave Ben Gamel and Guillermo Heredia to fight for a reserve role.
More from the American League:
- The Astros haven’t been willing to give up 21-year-old pitching prospect Francis Martes in a deal for White Sox ace Jose Quintana, and it’s no surprise, given the Houston organization’s opinion of Martes. “He’s got as high a ceiling as probably any righty in the major leagues,” Astros assistant general manager Mike Elias told David Laurila of FanGraphs. “He has such a gifted arm, and such a weapon breaking ball, plus the changeup as a third pitch. Something that can be lost sight of is how young he is. He went to Double-A (late in the 2015 season) and held his own. In and of itself, that says something. If you look at the list of guys who have pitched well in Double-A at age 19, it’s a really, really impressive list.” If Martes’ effectiveness continues in 2017, “his road to Houston could be a very fast one,” per Elias.
- Twins reliever Glen Perkins threw only two innings last season – both in early April – before undergoing June surgery to repair a torn labrum. Perkins’ recovery from the procedure “has gone well,” but “there’s no reason to rush” back, he informed Mike Berardino of the Pioneer Press. With that in mind, Perkins could begin the season on the disabled list. “It’s going to be down to the finish line at the end of spring training whether I’m ready or not,” said the 34-year-old. Long an adept late-game option, the left-handed Perkins amassed no fewer than 32 saves in each season from 2013-15. Brandon Kintzler grabbed the ninth-inning reins last year for the Perkins-less Twins, who are still scouring the open market for relief help.
- Victor Diaz is the least heralded prospect in the four-player package the White Sox received from the Red Sox in exchange for ace Chris Sale last month, but Chicago regards the hard-throwing right-hander as a quality piece. The 22-year-old Diaz is a prospect worth dreaming on and could move quickly toward the majors, according to White Sox senior director of baseball operations Dan Fabian (Twitter link via Dan Hayes of CSN Chicago). Diaz, a reliever capable of hitting triple digits on the radar gun, tossed 60 1/3 innings at the Low-A level last season.
Haniger is good defensively as well especially in a corner OF position like RF I like his bat as well.
Need
Nerd*
I feel like as long as Segura can hit better than Marte did our offense should be fine with who we have in the outfield. Our rotation is what’s going to take us to wherever we go. Basically with all 5 guys in the rotation we are hoping will be able to stay healthy all year unlike last year. I’m really looking forward to watching the bullpen though.
I agree. We are going to live or die by our rotation. It’s upside vs downside gap is one of the biggest I’ve seen from the Ms in a while.
The proposed improved outfield defense should help the pitching out a ton.
Especially a guy like Smyly
A couple things on Segura VS Marte:
1. Segura is a top defender at SS. Allthough Marte has a great potential to improve, he was horrible last year, and I counted like 5 games that due to his error that he gave up a lead that resulted in unearned runs in late innings and cost us the game in Aug/Sept that caused us to Seattle to miss the playoffs.
2. Segura vs Marte Offense numbers: Segura hit 20 HRs vvs Marte’s 1 HR. Segura hit 319 BA vs a measly Marte BA.
3. Segura vs Marte Base Stealing? NO comparison Segura creams Marte!
SS was a HUGE hole for Seattle in 2016. Dipoto addressed and filled that hole hugely!
Dipoto signed Smith & Gutz & Aoki in 2016 expecting them to be able to “maintain” their normal defense in the corners. Ironically all of them, especially Smith/Gutz were horrendous in the corner OF spots defensively. Dipoto addressed the OF corner holes, and now we have 5 of the top defending CFers to man our OF. We had a huge problem in June with CF when Martin went on the DL, and our entire OF defense suffered. The other issue was injuries in our rotation in 2016. We didn’t have the depth, but Smyly & Gallardo provide that in 2017 with Miranda and his 3.5 era in the wings in case of emergency.
I like what Dipoto has done.
Phrasing
Segura has a lifetime UZR/150 at SS of -3.3, how is he a top defender?
1) Segura is a decent defender at second. He’s a below average defender at short.
2) Segura is a better offensive player than Marte, but who uses batting average to make that argument?
3) Segura steals bases at a slightly higher % (77% vs 68% in 2016), but Seattle isn’t going to let him run as much as AZ did, and Marte is going to run more.
Seattle upgraded at shortstop but created a new hole by downgrading in their rotation.
Trading away Walker is not a downgrade. Can you tell me how he has made the Mariners better while he has been a starter? All he has done is ether been injured or pitch to a nearly 5 era. Sure he has potential, but he has not helped us at all one bit.
So Segura drew rave reviews at SS for you, I see.
I’d have to diaagree. I still remember how he raked when he got called up in MIL, then he stunk it up for the next 2 years before his trade to ARI. We’ll have to see if he’s finally figured it out on the offensive side, but I wouldn’t call him a great defender. I believe he was below average at SS and slightly above average at 2B, where he played in ARI.
Houston is wasting all that talent worrying about their prospects. They have enough talent to get to a World Series on the roster. All they need is an ace-type pitcher. If I’m the GM of the Astros, I’m moving prospects for Sale or Quintana, and possibly another high caliber starter like Archer or the kid in Oakland.
that’s why your not the GM. They really don’t need to trade for an ace. Patience is key and honestly I feel like the Astros should still b patient and wait til all of these prospects develop and they will b the next cubs sooner if you think. But that won’t happen if u frantically trade your farm in hope of maybe might have a chance to go deep in the playoffs while there are still rosters like the Cubs, Red Sox, Indians, and Dodgers out there
Other GMs wait to long and the window closes before the team can win. If a ace can put the Astros over the hump to win a world series they should go for it. The Astros will end up trading for a Ace sometime during the season if they are close. Other wise it will be another year of in and out of the playoffs.
Waiting for ALL of your prospects to develop into a world Championship roster is foolish because it will never happen. When your as close as the Astros are, you go out and get a pitcher. Had they done that prior to the trade deadline last year, they would have made the playoffs.
And not all prospects work out.. Plenty of top 100 prospects who don’t make it or turn out to be mediocre players.
Isn’t that basically what our White Sox are doing?
The White Sox were headed nowhere and needed to reboot. I don’t understand some typical Chicagonsports fans and their devotion to certain players. When a team is bad and spiraling down year after year, you have to make changes. If a club full of veterans can no longer compete, what’s the point of keeping them?
Where’s the rush for the Astros to go all in? The majority of the team is in their mid twenties!
You seem angry that the Astros wont give your team their prospects. If prospects are just prospects and most dont pan out, why are you so eager to trade for them?!
Dont worry about the Astros, we’ve already had our fire sale and waded through the dark years. We have plenty of time to enjoy our fruits
Being young doesn’t change when their Arb & FA years happen. Waiting for everyone to develop just means that by the time the last few are ready, the first few have priced themselves out of Houston or just decided they’d rather be a Yankee or Dodger (not an uncommon thing).
….keep drinking that kool-aid, The Cubs were the WS winners because of a LOT of things occurring right; not just their prospects. The Cubs have the best front office in the majors? Do the Astros? Remains to be seen. Front offices want to see one thing: A WS ring, immediately. I guarantee you that the Cubs could fall flat on their faces this season, and most of the fans would still be happy they saw their team get a WS win last season.
Does Quintana guarantee we get a WS ring?
You see, I think this is where your argument is flawed….it seems like the astros aren’t going “all in” for A ws ring. They seem to be modeling their franchises after the stl cards(I wonder why??), in that they are going for a sustained long term approach rather than going all in on the 2017 season. Their core is young and it seems JL thinks they’ll be contenders for years
Depending on positional and pitching prospects to develop into a championship at the same time almost never happens. That’s why teams seldom ever hoard all of their prospects. By the time pitchers come around, your all-world roster is hitting the contract renewal or free agency.
Instead of wasting 3 or 4 years, you should keep your too roster players and ship our surplus prospects to fill holes on your big league roster. Every contending team does this… except for the Astros. We saw how that worked put for them last year sespite all that talent (missed the playoffs).
The Astros were ahead of schedule on being competitive. They have traded away prospects for “talent” in the past with mixed results. Kazmir was pretty horrible after being completely dominant with the A’s. Gomez…I cant even…lets just say oops. It isnt automatic either way but I would rather err on the side that leaves me with more young maybe’s than one lone “Talent”
Wait that claim is ridiculous, because the Astros did just that to trade for Giles last year. I think to insinuate that they can’t win or compete is ridiculous. Things can change, but the overreaction from White Soxs fans gets annoying.
They have two plus arms in Keuchel and McCullers. Obviously they hold Martes in high esteem. If they develop and stay healthy then your claim is laid to rest. But please stop saying the Astros have been gun shy about trading prospects, because it’s just not true.
If you want the Astros to trade for Q, tell your GM to lower the price. Your asking for 150 cents on the dollar.
The Astros are positioning themselves to win the AL West 8 out of the next 10 years. It would be silly to go all in.
Not as silly as your last comment. Keep drinking the juice though.
And this is where your argument is flawed… Trading for Quintana isn’t an “all in” move for A ws ring. This isn’t a short term rental. This is a very good pitcher with 4 years of extremely cheap control. Not only would he help solidify the pitching staff, he’d offer payroll flexibility going forward, which is a gigantic asset to pretty much any team not named the Yankees, Cubs, or Dodgers.
Technically speaking neither of us know whether or not it is, bc we don’t know what the price is. Im assuming it is, bc we haven’t made the deal. I’m guessing Hahn wants JL to gut the farm…. if we’re giving our top 3 prospects plus, it’s an all in move
No, it’s still not… They wouldn’t be “selling the farm” just for the chance to win a world series this year. That would be an all in move for a ws ring, and it’d be incredibly stupid to part with that much talent for a shortsighted move like that. In this case, they’d be selling the farm (if you want to call it that) to put them in a better position to win the next 4 years. There’s a huge difference.
Rationalize it all you want. Sox fans mad they haven’t bent over another team for their last trade chip. I’m sorry no one is knocking down the door with hugh offers…and the astros are dumbasses for not doing it, we know, bc every white Sox fans said so(minus whitesoxfan200 who seems pretty reasonable)
Well I never said anything like that. Just because I’d love for the Q to Astros trade to happen doesn’t mean I expect it or think they (Astros) should do it. Having said that, Q is worth a very solid return and any fan would be happy for him to be on their team. As for generalizing Sox fans, the team has been awful for so long and now that we got good young talent for top players, yeah we want more. There’s not much else to be excited about. I myself am realistic but for once they’re actually making good moves for the future. Just let us dream and be hopeful. It’s all we got right now lol.
I guess I will have to continue to rationalize it to people that don’t understand that trading for Quintana is not a short-term, sell out for one year type of move. You clearly haven’t figured that out yet.
And you can continue to generalize Sox fans all you want; it doesn’t affect me in any way. I, for one, am not mad at all. Would I prefer a move be made before the season starts? Sure, if the price is right. If not, they can do this for 3.5 more years until they NEED to pull the trigger. They just started the rebuild. These things generally take a little while…
Also, the Astros aren’t being bent over here. Adding Bregman to the package with Martes and Tucker would be bending them over. Heck, while we’re bending teams over, lets bend over the Pirates for Glasnow/Meadows/Bell or the Rockies for Dahl/Rodgers/Hoffman.
Just curious, what’s your “Sox talk” handle? As for being realistic, what would you say Q is worth in prospects(from Houston). What’s the least you should get for him?
Paulino, Feliz, Reed, Franklin Perez, for Quintana…..
I bet Quintana probably is a better guarantee more than a bunch of guys that may never see a MLB field. Quintana is a proven guy. What have those PROSPECTS done?
I bet if you ask ANY GM or front office guy, in baseball would they want a WS win next year, or contend for them in the next 4-5 consecutive years? They would take the one win EVERY TIME. They may SAY ‘oh we want to be competitive’, but in the end it is to win at LEAST ONE WS ring. Prospects are just that prospect, guys that may never even see a major league field in their careers. That is the risk you take with trading PROSPECTS to get proven guys (and in the case of Quintana a guy with about 4 yrs of control, who may even be more affordable that when the other star pitchers come up for contract talks..
I’m really confused as to how Quintana guarantees a WS ring, but they have no chance without him. Sure adding Quintana would be great, but the Astros already have arguably the best lineup and pitching staff in their division, and they’ll likely be in the playoffs this year anyways. I’d rather have a team more capable of making it to play in the playoffs 6-8 years than a slightly better team for 4. The best team doesn’t always win the WS, so the best you can do is consistently make the playoffs and hope for the best. Not to mention his GB rate and ability to limit hard contact trended the wrong way this year. x-FIP and Siera both peg him as a ~4 ERA guy, which he’ll likely overperform like he’s done in the past, but he’s probably not going to be a 3.20 guy every year.
The fact Quintana is still a CWS guy, when so many teams are looking for pitching, should indicate clearly enough that the ask is far too high. They are trying to take advantage of Houstons perceived “need” as far as pitching goes. That teams weakness is starting pitching. It’s not because the starting pitching is bad, but because they are so strong everywhere else.
Quintana is obviously a very valuable pitcher, especially considering his contract and how long he’s signed.
That said : Houston obviously highly values Martes. He’s an MLB ready, highly touted pitching prospect. Think Michael Fulmer pre 2016. Plus, Martes is so, so young. No sense of trading off 6 years of control from a guy you hold in such high regard, plus Tucker (another top 50 prospect who is only 19 and only played A+ ball.
You can argue those guys haven’t shown anything in the majors, I’ll argue how many 19 year old A ball players fall into the top 50 prospects?
The package for Quintana is too strong, plain and simple. If it was Paulino instead of Martes, with another arm (not named Musgrove) thrown in, I buy the deal. Paulino and Whitley, for example.
But Martes and Tucker, plus more? Pass. Martes is too close, and his stuff is too good.
Just looked at MLB’s prospect rankings (from their own site).
Martes – 20
Tucker – 35
Paulino – 54
Fisher – 83
Whitley – 84
For example : what they got for Sale
Moncada – 2
Kopech – 16
Basabe – NR
Diaz – BR
Plus Sale was a *much* more desirable piece. Not only that, but post trade all you saw was how CWS “robbed the Sox” on that deal. Maybe not all you saw, but it was a trending theme.
And Moncada, for a #2 prospect, has a HUGE question mark (that being, can he over come his K rate?). Upside is tantalizing, for sure, but that’s a glaring question mark.
Given that 1) Sale has/had more value, and 2) that deal was considered and overpay, there’s no way Hahn should be expecting someone to bite on giving up 2 top 35 prospects PLUS another top 100 prospect for Quintana.
I think Fisher, Paulino, Whitley is reasonable. I also think Tucker climbs up the chart in the midseason rankings, but we’ll see what he does @ AA to start the year. Has great stuff. That said, I’d gladly involve him in a Quintana trade if I were Houston, but no way with Martes.
Some team will over pay at some point this upcoming year for Q. If not then next off-season a team will still have to pony up prospects they may like to keep. If relievers at the trade deadline are fetching the hauls they are in pretty optimistic about what a quality starter can fetch at the deadline.
Sale? Pretty sure the Red Sox won’t be trading him any time soon haha
The Astros were among teams in serious discussions to trade for Sale.
You said “If I’m the GM of the Astros, I’m moving prospects for Sale, etc.” That ship sailed already. Weird to even mention him.
It’s even more weird that you keep missing a very simple point. The Astros are one, possibly two top-rotation starters from a World Series appearance. They could have gotten Sale but chose not to give up prospects. Where Sale ultimately ended up is not relevant. Passing on Cy Young caliber pitchers with years left on their contract is relevant.
2015 royals show you that you can get to the world series without 2 top of the rotation arms. 2016 red sox and dodgers show you that having top of the rotation arms doesn’t guarantee anything.
They had a dominant bullpen, which the Astros do not. How was that Royals rotation last year?
The Astros bullpen was arguably the best in the majors last year, easily top 5, but don’t let me get in the way of your narrative.
I think the Indians showed what happens when you do not have the arms in this years WS.
If a team is two “top-rotation” arms away, then their staff isn’t close.
With McCullers hurt last year, and Keuchel taking a serious step back, Houston was still 15-16th in terms of pitching in the MLB last year. The staff is adequate, but adding an arm would definitely put them in top 3-5 discussion.
I doubt they passed on Sale. The Red Sox offer was just better because Moncada has arguably the highest ceiling of any prospect and they got other valuable pieces, too. Nats offered Giolito and Robles. The best package the Astros could offer would probably be worse than what Boston gave up or what the Nats were willing to.
That’s why you aren’t a GM lol. The Cubs kept their prospects and it’s turned out pretty well for them.
Except when they traded one of the best prospects in the game mid-season for chapman, who, uh, played a role.
Yeah, you know it worked somewhat well for ONE club, so by extension, it will work for all clubs (Pirates, Tigers, and Royals also tried this and it only took them about 10-15 years of mediocrity, each, to be competitive again). Never mind the Cubs have the best front office staff in baseball, AND had to overpay for starters to do this, AND had a tremendous amount of luck to accomplish this (all players staying moderately healthy, and getting Schwarber back when seeing an AL team have home field advantage in the WS, as well as arguably poaching one of the best managers in the game two years prior)..
Yeah, all teams should just hoard their prospects, that way fans can wonder what could have been if they just traded for ‘X’ or ‘Y’ player. No, keep thinking every club can be like the Cubs were.
Prospect are just that, prospects, just because they are good in the minors does not always mean they will be awesome in the majors.
Over pay for starters?
Yeah, overpaid.. C’mon, that Lester contract will be a giant albatross in the coming seasons, and that Lackey signing was a complete over pay. It worked out because the Cubs won a WS (partly due to a guy making the league minimum in Hendricks), but if they did not even make the playoffs? Heck at the end of LAST season sports radio was filled with ‘Did the Cubs over pay for Lester?”
They also had Lester, Arrieta, and Hendricks, all of whom are better than any one starter the Astros have right now. You’re comparing apples to oranges. If they wait for Martes to become an ace, their core will not be anywhere near as young as it is now
Have you seen McCullers pitch? I mean, he was injured last year but when he was on the mound, I’d throw him up against anyone in the league except maybe Scherzer or Keyshaw. And he’s incredibly young.
And Keuchel is still a good pitcher.
McCann and Beltran should help improve their lineup too. They’re fine. The ALW should be one of the better divisions to watch this season.
McCullers’ stuff is right there with anyone in baseball. His delivery has some violence to it that hinders his command and could make him more of an injury risk. Do you just move him to the pen now and watch him become the next Kimbrel, or keep trying to refine that delivery? Tough call.
McCullers is a Starting pitcher…. He has the pitches..
Nah, the Red Sox wont trade chris sale right after getting him. Nice try though
2019 is when the Astros have to start paying their core market salaries, so there’s no rush to win this year,
The only high salary move they made this year was for Beltran, and that’s a one year deal.
Their front office knows what they’re doing, it took long years of suffering to build up the system, and there’s no way they dump the farm to win now, when they can bring in cheap talent to support the big league team for years. They got burned in the Gomez and Kazmir trades, so they won’t make a rash move just to make a move.
Besides, Martes could easily be as good or better than Quintana by 2019, and he’ll have plenty of cost-controlled years left,
And if Martes doesn’t pan out (doubtful based on his 3-pitch command vs. hitters on both sides of the plate, rare in a minor leaguer) they have 4 other pitching prospects that can step in.
GMs shouldn’t trade away a bunch of prospects like Dombroski does
Haniger is a beast, one of the closest things to a five tool player I’ve seen
You may be disappointed in his power. Throw out the power numbers he had in Reno because in that stadium the ball travels much farther than MLB stadiums. Take a deep look at his stats and you will see he will not be a power hitter.
Dombrowski’s trade record is unbelievably solid when is comes to trading prospects and stocking farm systems.
Agreed Jake, and besides, their farm is still pretty strong even after the sale deal
Can’t believe half of the stuff that’s reported. Last time it was Musgrove the Astros refused to trade.
Luhnow was quoted that he didn’t want to trade Martes right after the winter meetings,
The Mariners are going to be a good club if everything goes their way. The can’t afford long injuries to any of the big three(Cano, Cruz, or Seager). The rotation is ?? Can Kuma stay healthy(he pitched 199 inning last year)? can Felix come back? Can Paxton stay healthy? Can Gallardo ans smyly rebound? Can Vogelbach handle major league pitching?That’s a lot of if’s in my book.. Still you could go through Texas, Houston and the Angel’s rosters and say the same thing. Going to be and interesting fun season.to watch.
Haniger is a question mark to me..229/.309/.404 in a hitter park worries some as well as he seems to be a pull hitter which does play too well at Safeco. SSS
Mariners are the biggest question mark team going into the season. Ought to be interesting. Personally, I hope they flop, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they won the division.
Terry – Haniger for the past 4 years, along with Vogelbach for the past 4 years, has put up 400+ OBP numbers. So your projected line for Haniger with a 309 OBP is way low!
The know they can’t make a deal without Martes in it. That’s fine if they don’t want to make a real run at the title. Enjoy being just not good enough. Price will only be higher in June or July for Quintana. Same for Archer and Gray. Astros aren’t smart.
Yeah, all of the people saying Q, Archer, or Gray, are not worth this or that prospect (though to be fair Gray gets hurt a lot and reminds me of Rich Harden). That is fine, someone will want them by July and will be paying far more than what the teams were looking for before the season started.
I don’t get this, Keuchel is a year removed from a Cy Young, McCullers has as much talent as anybody they might acquire, McHugh, Morton, and Fiers all have demonstrated the ability to be a 3-4 type pitcher, and they have Musgrove, Martes, and Paulino are all either current or very recent top 100 prospects that should be ready soon (All were top 50 according to BA) Two of these guys are older than 30. They have depth with guys who have shown they can do it, plus a lot of potential very near to the majors, for the Astros pitching staff to not be good enough to compete given their deep lineup, they would have to have just about everything that can go wrong for them do so.
Signing an established ace will take some pressure off those young guys. They can focus on developing and learn from the more established vet at the same time. This was the effect of having a guy like Lester on the Cubs’ staff last year.
What? Lackey was older than Lester, Jake was better the year before and I don’t think Lester being around has any effect on him relaxing or whatever jibberish you are claiming, Hendricks and lester pitch nothing alike and I’m not sure how Hammel would learn from lester?
Sounds like a pretty poor example for your narrative. The cubs staff was helped by talent, an awesome defense, and great luck with their health.
On ths internet, context is everything. Arrieta and tge rest of the staff benefitted greatly from Lester’s presence in tge rotation. If you can’t comprehend that, there’s really nothing rlse to talk about here.
Do you have any evidence at all to prove and quantify the “great benefit” that Lester provides to the rest of the rotation?
But the Sox want all the young guys. How can they learn from another team? That’s why it doesn’t make sense
Sox are geniuses right? I mean look where they are right now. I still find it hilarious Sox fans seem to know that Q equals a championship for houston and theyre dumbasses for not doing it. And if they don’t they’ll never be good enough. Like the team with the best rotation wins the WS every year………what a joke.
To answer your question, yes: adding a dominant, consistent top 10 starting pitcher like Quintana will help Houston make the playoffs. That’s 200 plus innings of 3.20 ish pitching from a guy who doesn’t get hurt. You didn’t get that out anyone on your staff last year. A pitcher like that would make the Astros a serious contending team.
Yes, because many Astros fans apparently think all of their prospects will help the Astros but a another top notch starter will not. IMO Quintana does more to ‘guarantee’ a WS ring this year, and the next 2-3 years, more than any prospect in their minors for (HINT: that is why they are ‘prospects’ and not at the major league level now).Pitching wins championships, ask the Indians about that, as they seemed to have run out of it at the end of the season and it eventually caught up with them. As for the ‘well they made the WS’, there are no points for second place.
Never mind that Quintana is a super affordable pitcher in place when other pitchers in the rotation come up to contract talks asking for the moon.
How was Keuchel last season? Oh right he was bad. How was McCullers? Oh right, he was hurt AGAIN. McHugh had a nice season.
The Astros were reportedly wanting to trade Fiers this offseason. The move to the AL clearly hurt him.
Charlie Morton threw 17 innings last year and 129 the year before. He can’t really be counted on.
Musgrove could help this year, but the Astros don’t truly know what they have in him.
Paulino and Martes aren’t major league ready. They need another year in the minors.
So yes, getting Quintana would be massive for the Astros. He’s been a model for consistency and is better than anyone the Astros can put out there.
And honestly, I don’t want the Sox to trade with the Astros, I’d rather trade with the Pirates. They have better top end prospects.
As a WS fan, I disagree with this. If they honestly believe Martes can be better than Q, why give him and more up when, by the time he makes it to the majors, they’ll still have Correa, Bregman, and Altuve? Q would help this year, yes, but he’s not Cy Young caliber. He wouldn’t make them better than the Indians or Red Sox and perhaps not even the Rangers. Astros could make the playoffs with him, but I highly doubt they’d win it all.
I’ll say I think it’s smart to hang onto prospects for the most part, but when you’re getting a sure thing like Quintana with so much control, why not do it? How much better is martes going to be then Q?
They have to hope that Martes is 80% of the pitcher Quintana is for it not to be worth it.
I don’t think the issue is deal Martes for Quintana, it’s dealing Tucker and Musgrove as well for the upgrade that might not move the needle on the WS chances that much.
They want more than just Martes…. Wait till deadline if a deal MUST be done… I don’t think it’s a must.
I’ve got an extreme proposal for the Astros and White Sox–the White Sox trade Abreu & Quintana to the ‘Stros–the Astros would not only end up with a solid rotation but they’d have a totally monster offense for 2017: OF George Springer, 3B Alex Bregman, 2B Jose Altuve, 1B Jose Abreu, SS Carlos Correa, DH Carlos Beltran, OF Yulieski Gurriel, (OF) Josh Reddick, C Brian McCann. Nobody–perhaps not even the Red Sox or Indians–would touch them in the AL. The best part would be for the Astros is that Quintana is tied in for 4 years under team control while Abreu has a relatively low salary for the next 3 years! Don’t forget Abreu’s the only big leaguer to hit .290, hit 25 HR’s, & knock in 100 runs for each of the last 3 seasons. The best part for them is they wouldn’t give up Bregman or Martes in my proposal..
What’d the Astros give in return? If I were the Sox, I’d ask for P David Paulino, OF Kyle Tucker, 1B AJ Reed, OF Ramon Laureano, P Franklin Perez, & C Jake Rogers.
I realize that this is a lot to ask for, probably too much, but the Astros would add more than your typical rental players—Abreu & Quintana are high-character guys who should produce huge numbers for the next 3+ years at prices far lower than what they’d pay for free agents. And let’s face it–many prospects do not achieve their projected ceilings. Most of the players leaving the Astros likely won’t play significant roles in 2017 & they would still be loaded with many of the top prospects in the game (i.e. Francis Martes, Forrest Whitley, Derek Fisher, Teoscar Hernandez, Dez Cameron, Garrett Stubbs, J.D. Davis, etc.).
Although this is a high-reward proposal, this of course is a high-risk proposal as well. That’s why I don’t really see this deal happening.
That would be a haul. If I was JL, I’d counter with fisher in instead of Laureano. Also jd davis(or moran)+ any prospect in the stros 10-20 instead of Franklin Perez. So…
Q/Abreu for Tucker/Paulino/Fisher/JD Drew/Reed/Rogers/10-20 prospect of choice
Abreu’s trends look awful
Abreu will be fine this season. He finally got to see his kid after something like 5 years and then he started tearing the cover off of the ball. I would rather see the Sox keep Quintana, Abreu and even Frazier, but this team is rebuilding and needs to correct its minor league system big time.
Doubt they’ll keep Frazier. This is the same team that has yet to sign anyone in its history to a $70M deal. If Frazier has a strong season, he might get that with his power and glove. I’d like them to trade both Quintana and Abreu, though for Abreu, I’d wait til midseason. Get a huge prospect haul and keep going with the rebuild. Moncada, Kopech, Giolito, and Lopez are good starts, but not enough to change the direction of the Sox by themselves.
Abreu put up a .898 OPS in the second half of the season, how does that make his trendline awful?
Abreu is a quality slugger
Gurriel would have to be part of the deal.
I like it.
It’s hilarious to me to read all the Sox fans say houston isn’t good enough blah blah blah. Of course they’re upset JL hasn’t backed up the brink’s truck full of prospects for Q. Maybe they see something special in martes and just flat out don’t want to trade him. That not stupid, what’s stupid is trading a guy who goes on to have a great career bc you were impatient. If you listened to white Sox fans, you figure trading for Q equals a WS championship. And guess what, if Q was worth what their fans think, wouldn’t have someone ponied up for the great Q by now?
The White Sox were terrible last year with Sale, Eaton, Q, Abreu, Frazier, Robertson, etc. However, these guys are worth a haul? I’m not saying they are valuable, but this core yielded nothing. Why should the Astros trade the farm for just one player?
You need more than pitching to win games, right?
That is such a flawed argument…
The team as a whole produced 34.8 WAR (20.6 for batters and 14.2 for pitchers). The guys you listed produced 4.9, 6.2, 5.2, 2.8, 3.4, and 1.2. That’s 23.7 out of 34.8 WAR, which is 68% of the team WAR for the year. Sale and Quintana combined for over 70% of the pitcher’s WAR for the team last year… The guys you listed were FAR from the issue with this team last year.
By that logic, Trout, Calhoun, and Simmons shouldn’t bring back much value because that core yielded even worse results. Same goes for Longoria, KK, Archer, Odorizzi, Colome. I could keep making lists like this, but it’s really not worth it. It’s pretty common sense that these guys weren’t the issue…
No, what is ‘stupid’ is thinking that all the prospects for your favorite team are all coming to the majors and will be Cy Young, and MVP, winners. While it is adorable that a bunch of the Astros fans think that, I’ll tell you after watching baseball for about 25+ years, nothing could be further from the truth.. Prospects are called that for a reason. Quintana is a guy with 3-4 years of control, insanely affordable when the other rotation guys start talking contract extensions, and is a proven pitcher.
Are the Sox asking for the world? Perhaps, but if you really think all of those prospects in exchange for a guy like Quintana (or Archer, or Gray) are going to pan out, then who is the delusional one here?
As for the Sox ‘core’ last year? Their biggest hindrance was not on the field, but the yutz that was mismanaging the club for the past 5 seasons.
I’d just rather take my chances on the 4 guys it would take to get Q. It seems like RH is asking for the moon, and why wouldn’t he? And I’m certainly not saying that all astro prospects will be cy young or mvps, I will say I have some faith in the man who has put it all together. We’ve seen how a revamped scouting department has completely changed the dynamic of the organization. It’s ok, if I was a Sox fan, who hasn’t developed anything in the feild from the farm, I’d be betting against all prospects too. I’ve felt that way before….about 10 years ago. But it’s cool keeping fighting the good fight. Enjoy those 2-1 games when you’re finally competitive in 2020. Enjoy your team sucking for the next 4 seasons while we’re making playoff appearances.
I get the impression that it’s pretty much just white sox fans who think the astros should trade for an ace. Hmmm, I wonder why that is
Your impression might be correct, if you lived in a vacuum. Most experts who know the game think the Astros need to trade for an ace. There seems to be no sense of urgency to win in Houston, so most likely they’ll wait until the deadline or next offseason to make the move. The problem with this strategy is there aren’t many aces available for trade these days. So most likely, it will be too late.
Not really true, although if you say it enough, it kinda makes your argument. Verlander will be available at the deadline(bc det sucks, but he costs more $$), cueto could potentially opt out of his deal, so depending on the Giants situation, they could be open to trading him. One thing remains is that the astros have the farm to make a deal whenever they see fit. If they want to wait it out and see how the season is going fine. One thing that you have to figure is the WBC. That’s just extra opportunities for Q to get hurt.
I said there aren’t many aces available for trade. That is a true statement. Furthermore, it’s debatable that Verlander is an ace at this point. Cueto would be a great get for Astros, but I don’t see the Giants trading him.
As a Dodgers fan that would make me very happy if the Giants were in a place where they felt like they should trade Cueto at the deadline lol
Please provide me links to “most experts” saying that the Astros need to trade for an ace.
Can’t help you there. If you’re plugged in, this wouldn’t be news to you. Get cable or satellite radio, there is a TON of discussion going on about the Stros and their ability to contend now.
Don’t mind Chester. He’s just a troll that antagonizes. Somebody at mlbtr needs to deactivate the troll.
Its called pitching depth and if you want to know more about that, talk to the Indians.
Ummm, the Astros obviously think they need another pitcher. They’ve been in trade talks around Sale, Q, Archer, etc.
This comment section has me dying lol. Only people calling for a Quintana trade is the white sox fans. “Astros gonna suck if they don’t give all their prospects for Quintana.” Sure ok.
They won’t suck, but they most likely won’t get past the Rangers in the west. Sox fans like myself don’t care where Quintana goes. The only thing we’re worried about is getting a mediocre return for him, which is a legitimate concern considering the Sox’s track record with trades prior to Sale being moved.
The Astros are projected to be better than the Rangers in basically all facets of the game. Not sure why they aren’t likely to get past the them?
Why Texas? They are never going to get as lucky in 1 run games as they were last year.
As an astro fans, we need to beat them to take the division. No excuses. They have beat us down the past few years, so to be the champ, you gotta beat the champ
Actually, I think Houston is very good. I have to admit that I am envious of the Astros squad. They’re excellent offensively, they have a decent pitching staff when healthy, & seem to have good leadership in the top executive positions which explains why they have such a deep farm system. Even with the upgrades their divisional rivals made, they should still arguably be the favorites in their division.. IMO the biggest thing that held them back last year, and correct me if I’m wrong, was the inconsistency & injuries of their starting pitching. By adding young pitchers in pressure situations, the risk is that even greater inconsistency would occur. Certainly prospects like Martes are awesome young prospects; this explains why everyone wants them. I don’t blame Astro fans for wanting to keep him. However, with free agency and injuries, the windows of pennant contention seem to dwindle fairly rapidly nowadays.. Some of the other teams with which Quintana has been linked don’t really have a shot to contend for anything more than the wildcard this year–this clearly isn’t true for the Astros. Of course things could change by the trading deadline.
I do think that the more players involved in a trade, the less likely it’ll transpire. The Astros have an amazing depth in minor league & starting pitching–it’s not out of the realms of possibility to use some of that depth to obtain players that’d help them in the immediate future. Let’s face it–there’s no guarantee that all highly-esteemed prospects will succeed (of course, some will). I think the framework of a deal like Paulino, Reed, & Tucker for Quintana would be more realistic than my original proposal–the Astros likely wouldn’t be getting too much production from any of those guys this upcoming year.. Actually both teams would be taking a risk: the Astros risk giving up too much while the White Sox run the risk of these prospects becoming busts while also losing 4 years of Quintana in the process (Paulino’s had some injury history, Reed struggled badly in his brief call-up last year, & Tucker is still very young). The probable results are somewhere in between.
Admittedly Quintana isn’t flashy and won’t strike out 250-300 hitters in a season; With that said, the White Sox’ offensive & defensive production didn’t do him any favors–put him on the Astros, and with his production, consistency & health, he should be able to win at least 17-18 games easy. I actually hate to see Quintana leave the White Sox because he’s been both an effective pitcher & positive role model–he’s pitched 200 innings each of the last 4 years with similar production in each. Sadly the atrocious offensive (strangely the Sox would always seem to score more runs for Sale) & defensive support kept him from being more well-known & successful in the W column while with the Sox.
Anyway, no matter what happens, I hope the Astros are successful & good luck with your squad.
I and all astro fans can appreciate your take and agree with alot of what you said. First, THE biggest issue last year was our lineup. We have a great top 3-4 and had 4-5 black holes in our lineup last year. Gomez, Rasmus, Castro, and white/reed/marisnick(pending lineup) were terrible. Hitting under .220 killing every rally ever started. So with the additions of Beltran, McCann, Reddick, Aoki(last 2 certainly aren’t great, but are left handed bats needed for our most right handed lineup who will give good veteran at bats and not be easy outs. I love McCaan as a foil to Gattis. Both can catch @ half the games and dh too. Our lineup should carry the team. Our pitching is solid, not great. And yes, mccullers missing half the year hurt, as well as Dallas missing the end of the year. McHugh isnt special but has been above league avg 3rd arm in a rotation the last 3 years. I’m hoping we can stay healthy, and if not, some of the younger guys like musgrove, martes and Paulino are ready to step it up for the big League team this year. With all of that said, I do think, on paper, the stros and Sox are a match for a trade. I’d hope we send something of a quantity package, so we could keep martes. But in the end, you have to give to get, and I think the Sox could take advantage of that with some of the depth in the system. Martes and Paulino were throw ins on trades. Hahn could look to fill the lack of position player depth using quintana(headlined by tucker)
I feel like you made another account just to respond to the first book you wrote. I’m sorry I’m just in a bad mood today.
Cheer up kid
Would not give three or more good prospects for Quintana nothing guaranteed
A lot of anger here, but I think it is misplaced. If the Astros don’t want to trade for Quintana it is their choice. The anger rightly belongs on the White Sox front office. They have led the fan base to believe there would be this grand rebuild. If that was truly their intention, they have been painfully slow in the process. Expectations have far outpaced reality and that is a bitter pill to swallow.
I think the Sox wanted to move Sale and Eaton more than the others. They were the ones crying about how a 12 yr old was their leader and ‘evil’ management made him go away. Well they were the first ones gone, so this was also as much as about a house cleaning as a rebuild.
I do not want to see Quintana moved. I hope he stays and wins at least 10 games in the first half of the season and then the Astros (or whoever) have to come back and give whatever Hahn wants for him (and maybe more) because they need a starter.. That is if another team doesn’t come calling before their team does.
Hahn wants a load of prospects, all teams are in this mode of ‘we can contend’ right now ‘as-is’; by the AS break we will see the contenders vs the pretenders and Quintana’s price will only go up, because he is not a 1 year rental either. I think many fans forget this.
No one here is forgetting how many years Q is signed for, but there are other things to consider waiting until the deadline, not all of them good for the Sox. First, you obviously risk him getting injured. He’s been very durable, but nothing is guaranteed. Second, there are really only so many teams with the ammo to acquire Q, that’s not changing. Third, the teams dealing are less likely to give up players closer to the bigs who might be able to help down the stretch. That limits the return on your guy, maybe not in quantity but quality for sure(say martes has been called up, he’d likely be off the table). Now the stros have the depth in the organization to pull it off, it just becomes a question if that’s what RH wants.
Doubt they have the depth without Martes. Tucker is #35, Paulino is #54. WS got #2, #16, and more for Sale. I grant that Q is not as good, but he’s still very good and controllable for one more year at the same total price.
The White Sox are in no hurry. Hahn has said that they’re just beginning the rebuild and it will take some time. He’s also said they would give the market time to work itself out until they can get the value they think is fair.
Pedro Alvarez should sign a minor league contract with the White Sox . Great as a DH /PH even given a shot