8:34pm: The Astros did, in fact, talk to the White Sox about Quintana, but have found the White Sox’ price to be too steep, Jake Kaplan of the Houston Chronicle writes. Kaplan notes that it’s unclear whether the Astros would have to give up Bregman to get Quintana, but notes that he doesn’t want to part with players who could help the Astros next season. “We’re just not prepared to trade away players that are core to our production in 2017, and those are sometimes the players that are required to get these deals done,” says GM Jeff Luhnow.
The Braves also asked about Quintana and thought the White Sox’ price was too high, writes David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The problem seems to be that the Braves don’t feel Quintana is as valuable as Sale was, even though Quintana is controllable for an extra year. “We don’t have needs in starting pitching,” says GM John Coppolella. “Do we want a No. 1 starter, is Chris Sale a No. 1 starter? Yes. Do we want Jose Quintana? I don’t think Jose Quintana is Chris Sale.”
8:51am: A day after trading Chris Sale to the Red Sox, the White Sox are now “in serious talks” with multiple teams about their other star left-hander Jose Quintana, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports (Twitter link). The Astros and Nationals are two of the clubs involved in discussions.
The Astros were rumored to have interest in Sale, but Houston’s refusal to include Alex Bregman in any trade likely removed them from the bidding, given how Chicago was looking for only elite prospects for Sale (like maybe the game’s best prospect in Yoan Moncada). The White Sox undoubtedly want quite a bit for Quintana as well, though their demands could be closer to the Astros’ comfort zone.
Houston has heavily bolstered its lineup this offseason with the additions of Carlos Beltran, Brian McCann and Josh Reddick, though Charlie Morton has been the only new face brought into a rotation that fell short of expectations in 2016. The Astros have been creatively both shopping starters (Mike Fiers and Collin McHugh) while also looking at upgrades; in particular, Houston has often been linked to the Rays’ pitchers in trade talks, even dating back to last summer’s trade deadline.
The Nationals’ interest in Quintana is a bit harder to gauge. While Nightengale and FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman have both reported that the Nats were in on Quintana, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal and the Washington Post’s Chelsea Janes have reported that Washington was only specifically interested in Sale, not in any other starting pitchers. While the Nationals have a very good rotation already, Quintana (and his team-friendly contract that is extendable through 2020) could still be an upgrade. Stephen Strasburg can opt out of his deal after the 2019 season, Gio Gonzalez is only controllable via a club option through 2018 and the Nats might simply see Quintana as a more proven commodity than youngster Joe Ross. In fact, a controllable young starter like Ross would be a potential fit for a Quintana trade package.
While often overshadowed by Sale in Chicago, Quintana has rather quietly been a very durable and effective pitcher over his five years with the White Sox. Quintana has a 3.41 ERA, 3.20 K/BB rate, 7.4 K/9 over 951 career innings, and over the last four seasons, he has generated 18.2 fWAR and averaged 204 innings per year. An early-career extension has made Quintana even more of a valuable commodity, as he is owed just $14.35MM through 2018, plus $10.5MM club options for both 2019 and 2020 (with $1MM buyouts in each year).
Solid pickup to go along with Keuchel and McCullers.
Unless the astros trade those guys for Quintana.
That would be stupid.
I’m all for it as long as it doesn’t include Kyle Tucker or Whitley. It will almost certainly cost Martes and maybe AJ Reed.
why so quick to deal Marte’s and Reed? give them Moran and a thank you note.
Lol
For Moran, I’d be willing to send back James shields. HOU would still be getting the better deal and shields blows.
we are talking about a team that traded for Shields last season… anything is possible.
and why so much Moran hate?
Coming from a Team that just signed Charlie Morton to a two year 14mil dollar deal
because fans like you think moran is a fair lead for a player who would be the astros best starting pitcher for the next 4 years
While I agree that it’s funny to include Moran in any conversation, Quintana would be our 2nd best, maybe 3rd if Keuchel can right the ship. McCullers is hands down better than Quintana and Keuchel, he just needs to stay healthy long enough to prove it.
Yeah well that’s the problem, McCullers doesn’t stay healthy for 10 straight starts.
That might be an opinion, but based on real stats, McCullers is not “hands down better” than Quintana, even when healthy. Since 2014…
McCullers: 3.22 ERA (3.16 FIP), 1.33 WHIP, 10.2 K/9, 2.67 K/BB, 5.7 IP/start
Quintana: 3.29 ERA (3.19 FIP), 1.23 WHIP, 7.8 K/9, 3.67 K/BB, 6.4 IP/start
LOL…. than dont give them up… than you will miss on Q too
Astros are involved in every rumor and still can’t land the starter they need. I’d take Quintana over pretty much everyone in the rotation right now, maybe even over Keuchel.
Healthy McCullers and healthy Keuchel I would put up against any 2 in the league. If they did get the deal done Quintana is #3 starter behind those two.
Nobody fears Hostons rotation. Q would change that but at the moment that rotation is meh to me. But I also think the Stros rode Dallas to hard
I don’t think anyone fears Quintana. He isn’t a flashy hard throwing guy with completely nasty stuff. He is the under the radar guy that wins because he gets out. He isn’t the strike out one per inning kind of guy. Batters typically fear guys that throw hard and ones they feel they can’t even put the ball in play against. Guys like Kershaw, Thor, Sale, Price, Scherzer, Strasburg, Fernandez before the accident, Chapman, etc.
The Astros adding Q would make it a great rotation, but no one is going to “fear it” by adding Q.
Nobody fears Houston’s pitching? In the entire league their pitching staff were 5th in Strikeouts, 4th in fewest walks allowed, 11th in ERA, and 12th in BAA. For a club that missed the reigning Cy Young for over a month, and missed the most talented pitcher they have (McCullers) for 1/3 of the season I would say their pitching staff is solid.
11th in ERA in their “entire league?” Out of 15 teams that’s really not very good.
I am a fan of the Red Sox and Astros, but I have to call it out when I see it: Your take on Astros pitching is homerish. Look at their staff: Keuchel, who for two years was great, was very inconsistent last year; needs to rebound; McCullers is very good; Musgrove was slightly above average and has upside; McHugh was average as well as inconsistent and has regressed two years in a row; Fiers was slightly below average and has regressed two years in a row; Morton has maybe been average in the NL and could get rocked in AL. Bottom line is that Houston needs to improve their starting pitching. Quintana would be a great addition as long as they didn’t have to part with Martes, who I really like. I’d be willing to part with Reed, Paulino, Ramon Laureano and Daz Cameron if it meant holding onto Tucker, Whitley, and Martes.
entire league is 30 teams dude…. As in MLB not AL…
Homerish? Ok… Musgrove was a Rookie brought up midseason. He WHIP was 1.21, he had 8 k’s/9IP, and in 62 IP he walked 16 and struck out 55. For a 3.44 SO/BB ratio. Hits per nine was 8.6. ERA was 4.06. In comparison Q’s rookie year in 2012 had a worse WHIP (1.350), much worse SO/BB ratio (1.93), Worse hits per 9 @ 9.4. He did have a slightly better ERA @ 3.76. He also only won 6 games in 22 starts vs. Musgrove’s 4 wins in 10 starts. Then we are on to McHugh who you said is average and has regressed two years in a row. In 2015 he was 19-7 and finished 8th in Cy Young voting so you are totally wrong there. In 2016 his H/9, HR/9, and BB/9 all went up so I can see where you think he regressed. However his career numbers while in Houston is nearly identical to Q’s. WHIP (1.249 vs 1.242), H/9 (8.8 vs 8.9), HR/9 (0.9 vs 0.8), BB/9 (2.5 vs 2.3), SO/9 (8.4 vs 7.4) SO/BB (3.42 vs 3.2), ERA (3.71 to 3.41)
So you are saying that Q is worth top prospects and that the guy he is statistically compares to is league average? And you think that my assessment is homerish? Uhhh Ok… whatever.
I agree almost 100% with our entire post. I would deem K Tucker, Whitley, and Martes untouchable. Unfortunately, we won’t get an arm like Quintana or better without probably including Martes.
If you’re talking about a comparison between a guy who is 8th in WAR among starting pitchers from 2014-2016, essentially his age-25 through age-27 seasons, and Collin McHugh, yes. Quintana is quite a bit better and much, much more valuable at this point in their respective careers.
Jtm2889 have you seen Rick Hahn operate? I’m sure you would like Quintana and wouldn’t like to give up Martes and Tucker. Guess what…Ain’t gonna happen brother
Who cares if they ‘fear’ Quintana as long as he gets guys out?
Great job
True but most fear the Astros lineup now, agree on Kuechal the extra rest will do himy good, 2015 was a lot of innings
I have indeed seen Rick Hanh operate and I maintain that he is one of WORST GM’s in the league. Foolishly tried to compete for 3 seasons before realizing he needed to blow it up. Will now take another 3 years before CHW are relevant. I will say however that he has made very good trades and they are (finally) heading in right direction.
Let’s focus on McHugh, since I already declared that Musgrove was above average with upside (which you somehow missed). McHugh has regressed each of the past two years, no question about it. From 2014 to 2015 his ERA went up 1.16…a full run. From 2015 to 2016 his ERA jumped up another .45…half a run. His 2016 WHIP of 1.40 is unsightly and he, as well as Fiers and Morton, could certainly be upgraded. As for your original statement regarding Keuchel and McCullers being as good as any two in the league, this is bullish. They are good, but Keuchel has literallly had two great seasons while the rest have been between average and bad. No way is Keuchel on the same level as Kershaw, Sale, Scherzer, etc. who perform every year. Consistency counts and Keuchel, as well as McHugh for the matter, need more of it. As for McCullers, he can be a stud. However, he hasn’t pitched a full season yet; to put him up as the best #2 in the league is too much right now, although he certainly could get there depending on how season plays out.
Nope. He was handcuffed by Kenny Williams and owner Jerry Reinsdorf. He is actually proving to be a damn capable GM. I’m just pretty sure he’s not going to be giving away Quintana for pennies on the dollar especially after seeing him holding the reins on these last two trades.
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you are a Sox fan you know that JR (Sox owner) wants to win desperately again at age 80 (but not pay for it), so you get middling teams, KW runs the show to this mantra, and KW has been the biggest issue in this club, next to his failed hire that was Ventura.. Hahn FINALLY got to do what he wanted which was rebuild. It is about time sure, but the delay is not Hahn’s fault IMO.
Well, if u didn’t want to b misunderstood, u should’ve said in the entire MAJOR leagues, b/c there are TWO LEAGUES in the MAJOR leagues.
Yu Darvish and Cole Hammels read your comment and laugh
He is just confident. There are several others I would choose over those two too. Scherzer/Strasburg, Bumgarner/Cueto, Arrieta/Lester, Kluber/Carrasco, Price/Porcello or now Price/Sale. One game playoff for the AL Wild Card and I take Hernandez or Verlander too.
Have you seen Price pitch in playoff games?! Woof! And I would only be afraid of Yu if he can make it to the mound.
Same with McCullers
It seems that Sale was a bit of a unique opportunity, I think the Nationals’ rotation is pretty good as is, and adding a bat like Cutch would be more effective.
I like how the post below “White Sox talking Quintana with Nationals” reads “Nationals not interested in starting pitching”
Stuff like that makes me laugh at “reports say the Nationals offered Robles, Giolito & Lopez for Sale” and the White Sox turned it down yeah right !!!!
Yeah but Moncado and every bit of his salary paid is a special part of that trade. Maybe Nats did offer that but the money thrown in tipped Hahn that way.
You do know that Moncada didn’t have a salary it was a signing bonus there is nothing special about that. The Red Sox had were obligated to pay that as soon as he was signed.
You know, I wonder if they’d already had some discussions about Eaton, and Hahn realized that Rizzo would give up most of the same pieces for Eaton, and he could get most of both offers by trading Sale to the Red Sox
As a career .500 pitcher I would say that the Astros would be crazy to give up Tucker. Fires/McCue/AJ Reed/ and outfield prospect Daz Cameron should get the deal done. Two MLB READY prospects and an up and coming slugger along with a future star with a high ceiling in the outfield….
Don’t let Quintana’s win/loss record deceive you, he is an excellent pitcher. He received some of the worst run support in baseball
He is worth nearly as much as Sale in a trade
almost as much as Sale? that is a joke. we are talking about a solid #3 here. go get your top prospects elsewhere…
Newman2079 you are joking right?
fangraphs.com/blogs/the-price-f…so-be-sky-high/
read the above fangraphs article and you’ll see why he is so valuable
Yeah. He has pitched 200 innings for 4 straight years, Has a sub 3.30 era in the last 3 years. Was an all star, and finished 10th in the Cy young last year. That all adds up to a 3rd starter? You are an idiot. He is easily top 15 in the game over that span. Not to mention he is cheap
He’s not a 3. He is a number 2 all the way. And he has received some of the worst run support in his career.
And also pitches half of his games in a band box that is Comiskey Park (or whatever they decide to call it now); Fairly certain his WaR is also good as well (and better than Sales this past season)
That is just not a smart comment.
clearly you know wins mean nothing right for a pitcher these day, right?
Unless you’re Rick Porcello. Pretty sure win-loss record is what got him the Cy Young because he lost to Verlander in virtually every other category.
No.
No what? No Verlander didn’t beat him in more categories? Pretty sure half of the league could have Porcello’s W-L record with over 6 runs of support per outing. JV won almost every other category, including 1st place votes.
I thought Britton should have won
Cameron wont be included in my opinion.
He should be. As an Astros fan, idk if I’m in the minority when I think he’s a prospect that I don’t think will even make it to the show.
Dude… he’s 18. He is still growing. Let him get to 22 before you give up on him lol
You are correct on the age, however that’s also a very legitimate reason to include him in a trade. He’s still a high ceiling prospect and any acquiring team is taking on the same risk as if you keep him.
he’s actually not correct on the age. Cameron turns 20 in January.
It doesn’t matter if he were a .500 pitcher or a .100 pitcher. Pitchers have very little control over their records. Especially a great pitcher like Quintana, who has played on some bad teams
Yeah, Quintana leads the lead in NDs over the past 4 years, Before this season he has had something like 50+ NDs.
You must not want Archer then either since he is 10 games under .500 in his career.
Q has topped 200 innings in 4 straight seasons and actually pitched to a slightly lower ERA than Archer, not to mention Q has a higher WAR the past 3 years.
Q just doesnt get the attention because the Sox had Sale and Q couldnt get run support to save his life. Sox averaged 3.81 runs per game on days he pitched last year. To put that in perspective, Phillies scored the least number of runs as a team last year at 3.76 per game…
Fires is at 180 for three years in a row and McCue has averaged 190 over the past two years as well. Both of whom could be higher if they were pitching on teams with a more potent offense than the Astros have been lately. The need to be pulled with a one run lead and turn the game over in the 5th or 6th inning to the bullpen has been very frustrating in H town. But a lively left handed pitcher like Q sure would look good in Astros orange and blue, Archer would also be a nice fit but Houston already knows what it is like to deplete its minor league system like they did in the early and mid 2000’s.
Fiers is 32 years old next season, which will be his seventh in the big leagues.
How is he a “prospect”?
And double check spellings before posting. Only takes a few seconds. Fiers* and McHugh*
Astros should consider Martes almost as untouchable as Bregman. Every other prospect can go, though.
Every other one, eh? Wow you don’t think too highly of one of the highest rated farm systems in the game…
Oh, I do, but you have to give to get, and Martes has too good of a projection to move. I don’t really want to see them move K. Tucker, Whitley, Fisher (I like his bat for average) and Musgrove, but if it takes one or more of them to address the starter hole that the Astros must address to contend next year, so be it.
I don’t think any of those you mention gets moved for Q. My guess is they wanted Martes + Bregman + others for Sale and got told to get bent. Friers, McHu, Moran, Teoscar, Peacock, Gattis (though I hope not), Stassi, White, Kemp, Preston Tucker, and any 2B/SS prospect or A ball pitcher they have are probably what has been offered…
To be honest, the White Sox are old and horrible. Their farm system is worse… They need a lot to rebuild. I wouldn’t be surprised if 2 fringe young MLB players and 2 low level prospects get the job done or 3 fringe and one decent prospect…
Indyjuster that’s a cute try. Come on honestly think about the value of controllable cheap still young proven pitching. And you would want to throw bums at Rick Hahn for Q. You dream nice kid!
You just haven’t been paying attention!!
I’d rather see the Astros get Archer from Tampa… if Lunhow gives up multiple top level prospects for Quintana, I would conclude that the guy is just bad at the trading aspect of being a GM…
Quintana is better than his W- L record indicates. And Lunhow has a good track record on trades excluding the Gomez one (which no one saw not working). Devenski, Gattis, Giles, Hoyt, McCann, Marwin Gonzalesz, and Marisnick on the current 40 were all trades by Lunhow. I would say that’s pretty successful….
Giles is still TBD… I would really like Vinny V in the rotation right about now… and the Gomez deal is bad as it gets. Hader would be the #1 prospect if we still had him, and we gave up Phillips as well?
All that being said, I would prefer Archer or Sonny Gray even over Quintana if the asking prices are similar.
After a shaky start Giles was murder for the rest of the season. 102 punch outs for 65 innings at 14k/9. 15 saves and 18 holds. He did have 5 Blown saves but I think most of those were in April. And Gomez batted .290 after Texas signed him. It is a total mystery why he was so horrible in Houston. Those happen, I can think of a lot of deals that looked great and didn’t work. Feldman for Arrieta for one. Feldman got shelled in Baltimore and then came to Houston and had a very productive 2 1/2 years. Arrieta went on to win the Cy Young and a World Series. Vinny V hurts, but my guess is Lunhow went with Musgrove over him and he probably wasn’t wrong. I think that guy is going to be a great #2 in a year or two….
I still think it could be worth it for the Nationals at a slightly lesser price than that of Sale. I also think the Astros would be a better fit for Archer.
However, the Nationals need a closer bad. Not sure what their plan is there since it appears they are losing out on Davis and won’t spend for the other big two. You’re outfield as it is could be Werth, Turner, and Harper. Stop looking at Cutch and OF options and figure out your closer situation before the musical chairs are up and you are the one left out. Say what you want about closers, but I bet the Giants wish they would have ponied up to get a good one last year.
Archer and his 19 losses? i have seen quintana pitch the last few years
he is the tom glavine of the sox rotation- nothing flashy- but has decent war numbers and is an innings eater- his record does not show well because he has had the worst run support the last 3 years.. it is hard to win games when your team scores less than 2 runs a game when you pitch.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if the Astros are asking about Quintana and Abreu? That would definitely plug both holes the Astros have left. If Sale is gone then the fire sale may commence and probably should for the White Sox. No one goes to their games already so why have $150 million payroll?
whoa! what is in your pipe there guy? please share
That would be a massive package, and Bregman HAS to be the main piece plus a ton more.
Quintana and Abreu would make Bregman a must in any deal + significantly more
each has great trade value on their own, combined the return would be more than Sale
Never said it wouldn’t be a huge package. Plus, it wouldn’t HAVE to have Bregman. It would take a lot. But if the White Sox are trying to rebuild and get younger (which they need to) it is possible. Think Willis/Cabrera to the Tigers from Miami. Astros have a very talented farm system and a very talented very young MLB team. You could restock quite a bit moving those two…. I do think that would include Martes, Reed or White, among others…
Oh stop with this silly notion of ‘they are rebuilding so they will give the house away for near nothing’. Miami was trying to move Cabrera because they knew they would not be able to afford his salary, and Willis only was added because he started to stink and they had to plug him with a superstar like Cabrera to move him. Now if you are saying that Quintana is Willis then you are seriously on something. I’m guessing that the Sox will hold Quintana until mid season if they cannot get what they want for him now, but the Sox are not just going to let him go when many of his numbers are nearly as good as Sale’s and has a better temperament as well
Astros get Quintana
ChiSox get – Reed (org #5 BA – top 100 somewhere), Paulino (org #3 BA – #70 overall MLB), Fisher (org #9 BA- #83 overall MLB) and JD Davis (org #11 MLB).
If they want to throw in Robertson, the Astros can either change Paulino out for Martes or Fisher out for Tucker. And maybe throw in a lower level prospect like Brendan McCurry or Riley Ferrell
Closers are a luxury for rebuilding teams and with 25m coming his way over the next 2 years, those resources could be better spend elsewhere
Giles is our closer, and we have Harris too, both are as good or better than Robertson.
Robertson could still be a really good setup man for a contending team and insurance as a closer. If the White Sox kicked in a little money to help offset I could see him having value in the current market
Astros already have a totally loaded bullpen. One of the top 4 in the game and if Royals trade Davis top 3….
Giles better than Roberson…. Yeah ok lol
Second half of last year Giles actually was better the Robertson by quite a bit strangely enough
Robertson’s numbers suffered last season because of an inept manager more than anything else.
Bullpen of Robertson, Giles, Harris, Feliz, Devinski (if he’s not a SP), Sipp, another LHP. I’d be damn confident in turning the ball over to the pen in any situation.
way… way too much. No way…
Q/Robertson for Paulino, Reed, Tucker, Cameron
Preston Tucker sure, Kyle Tucker, NO.
The Astros would be fortunate to land a pitcher of Quintana’s talent. Dude was totally overshadowed by Sale and lousy run support. Judging simply on numbers he would be the best pitcher on the Astros staff.
Yeah.. more talented than the 2015 Cy Young, McCullers, and Musgrove with his career numbers that match up with McHugh… yeah… ok. LOL
Any truth that the Cardinals are one of the teams in on Quintana? They need a veteran lefty that is solid.
He’d be there Ace
yes and like the other guy said he would be your ace
I can see this trade making sense for the Astros. The question is cost. Now the White Sox got a few premium prospects, I wonder if they’re more willing to take bulk. If so, I’d love the Astros to dump off a bunch of the fringe prospects with a legit headliner or two.
White Sox will be expecting nearly the same level of return that Sale got, especially with an extra year of team control for Quintana. He is not as flashy, but is an outstanding pitcher in his own right. Quintana is the most underrated starting pitcher in baseball in my opinion
If they expect that, then no deal will happen. Underrated or not Q is no Sale.
ChiSox seem like a perfect one stop shop for the Nats. Washington needs a closer and won’t spend for one of the big FA ones, they’ve been sniffing around Cutch, and were obviously willing to give up significant prospects for Sale.
Quintana/Eaton/Robertson. What’s the cost?
Despite the opinions of some here, Quintana is a frontline starter. He might not post the eye popping K/9 that the elite class of aces put up, but he easily makes up for it with very low walk and HR rates. Consistent as hell (Ranks 8th among all MLB starters in WAR over the past 3 seasons) and has an even friendlier contract than Sale. (4 years at less money than Sale’s 3)
I know Andrew Mccutchen is a bigger name. But go look at both him and Adam Eaton’s numbers and tell me who you would rather have going into 2017.
Robertson isn’t an elite closer. But if they aren’t going to pay for Chapman/Jansen, they won’t get an elite closer. Robertson is fine for the job.
Nats are all in for the next two years before the post-Harper fire sale. The Sox are just starting the rebuild. Nats have a nice cupboard of prospects. It all just seems to make sense. Then again, if I were so smart I wouldn’t be working where I’m working!
The cost would be incredibly high for those 3. Quintana and Eaton have a huge value on their own, so I don’t see them being together in a deal.
I think the more likely scenario is Quintana and Robertson together. It could probably be done for something similar to what was offered for Sale. I do think they need another ace type pitcher and obviously they need a closer. If I am trying to compete with the Cubs, Giants, Mets, and Dodgers in the playoffs, you can’t go into them relying on Strasburg. Getting Quintana makes it likely you go in with Scherzer, Quintana, Roark, and Ross. If Strasburg is healthy, you have one of the best 1-2-3’s of any team, and probably the best 1-5 if you include the others. .
Would Robles/Giolito/Lopez/Ross be too high of a cost for that package? (Or am I too high?)
That move looks good to me from both teams perspectives.
I think it’s too high at that point once you include Ross and Lopez. I think it’s Giolito, Robles, Lopez, and maybe a couple of lower prospects like Cole, maybe Fedde, or Kieboom. I think if the Nats were going to offer those 4, they would have done it for Sale.
I can see Cashman getting in on Quintana, he is controllable through 2020 at a low cost. He could be their ace. Nats offer Giolitto, Robles, and 2 others, Astros offer Paulino and Whitley and 2 others, the Yanks offer Severino , Judge, and Mateo. Who has the best package.The only package that could trump the Yanks package is the Nats if they throw in Ross .
I think the Nats in that case. Kinda hard to beat the #3 and #10 prospects in the game. Especially if you consider they could also include Lopez, who is the #37 prospect. I think they would like that one best too after getting Moncada for Sale. They would instantly have 3 of the top 10 prospects in baseball. Not a bad place to rebuild.
Severino is young and he has more MLB experience. He was rated as a higher prospect than both Lopez and Ross., I think.
He probably was, but he also has an ERA around 6 in the Majors and Judge has hit .179. If it’s just those 3 that you mentioned for the Yankees, then yes, a package of Giolito, Robles, Lopez, and one other beats that Yankees package.
Severino is better as part of a deal than Lopez, but not Ross. But you’re also comparing the Yankees best part of the offer to the Nationals 3rd best piece. And on Ross, he just pitched to a 3.43 ERA in the Majors.
The Nats – and that’s without Ross thrown in.
The Yankees would never give up that much for Jose Quintana. As a White Sox fan, I would be OK with a package centered around either Clint Frazier or Aaron Judge and two other project pieces similar to Basabe and Diaz from the Sale trade. If the Yankees also needed David Robertson, then I would try to do a 5-for-2 swap and get both Clint Frazier AND Aaron Judge with three depth guys included.
No thanks to Judge. Yankees can keep him.
Don’t want those guys, not enough control and no need for them Headley has a 2.1 WAR and Frazier is a 2.5 almost the same player, Yanks need a good number 2 starter which is Quintana. Robertson is not living up to his contract and doesn’t have the control. Judge is number 18 and Mateo is number 22 in the top 100. Serverino is a young power arm who did great in relief last year and well as a starter the year before. I think that is a fair trade for Quintana. All are young and controllable which is what the Sox need.
Although if the Astros throw in Fiers or Mc Hugh in the deal they would get him.
Fiers is 31 and McHugh is 29. Neither of them would add much value for the White Sox. The Nats package would still be the best.
True, you think the Nats will go with Ross, Lopez, Giolitto, and Robles, if so they get him.
I don’t think they’ll go that high. Assuming they offered something along the lines of Giolito/Robles/Lopez/Fedde for Sale, I think a Q package would look something like Robles/Giolito + some lower ranked guys. That would be ideal, but I don’t think the White Sox would be upset about settling for Robles/Lopez + some lower guys or Robles/Fedde + some mid-ranked guys. Robles would definitely be their #1 choice though IMO, even over Giolito.
If Luhnow screwed this trade up for us Astros, I’m going to lose it! I understand what Bregman is off limits.
I know Archer is a flame thrower, and will strikeout more batters, but if you look, and compare Quintana, and archers stats..
Both 28, & are under team control to 2019, when 2 years of club option kick in, so both are locked up on a team friendly deal through 2021..
Both pitched over 200+ innings last 4 years, with consistent 3.35-3.50 era for JQ around, both have a 4so to 1 walk ratio, even though archer strikes out more!!!
Ok I’m done comparing the two.
I’m just stating the obvious, with the sox, we can trade prospects, and keep Bregman.
Where Tampa wants Bregman, and others, sorry Tampa he is no Chris Sale!
Well after that trade, I think Chicago would want Francis Martes, which would make for a future dynamic 1-2 to pair up with Kopech!!
Martes doesn’t throw 105, but he’s a Mid-high 90’s thrower, with 2 solid secondary pitches!!
So Luhnow STOP hoarding our prospects, and losing value!!
I think we can outbid the nats, by sending them 3 soon to be MLB players, in SP-Martes, OF-Fisher, and 3rd basemen Colin Moran.
Plus either Mike Fiers, and/or another prospect, or 2 in the 25-40’s rankings..
GET IT F’N DONE LUHNOW
Chris Archer is under team control through 2021, while Jose Quintana is only under team control through 2020. Chris Archer is the better acquisition, but he will also cost a lot more in terms of prospects. There are rumblings that the Rays aren’t all that motivated to deal him. In contrast, the White Sox are the very definition of a “motivated seller.”
Why is Archer a better acquisition? They have the same numbers. Same age.
Only difference is Q is a lefty who weighs 220lbs and doesnt depend on power 95+ fastball and while archer is a rail thin righty who does and lost an mph last year.
who do you think is more likely to last?
And Q has 4 years left. 4. They in now way have to move him now.
Jeff Passan said that Jose Quintana is worth 95% of what Sale was worth. He said because of his durability, age, salary and extra year of control that any team trying to acquire Quintana should be prepared to pay up. He is easily a top 20 pitcher in the game, he is left handed, and pitches deep into ball games. If it’s True that Giolito, Robles and Lopes were offered then it’s very possible it would take Giolito and Robles plus a lower rated prospect to get Quintana. Rick Hahn seems to be fully given the power to make decisions and he is looking for quality not quantity. Astros would have to pay up also. Quintana is a 1/b-2/a level pitcher in a thin pitching market.
LOL if that is the case than Hahn will sit on him and watch his club lose 90 games this year and hope he doesn’t turn into Cliff Lee. Pitching market thin or not, the packages listed here are fairly ludicrous. John Lackey was a great pitcher when Boston traded him to St. Louis in 2014 and they got a light hitting OF/1b (Allen Craig) and a fringe MLB pitcher (Joe Kelly). Grant it, he was a Vet that didn’t have the club control… but that doesn’t equal top 10 prospects and multiples ones of them…. Right now that trade is the equivalent to Friers and Tony Kemp going to Chicago. Left handed? Control? Fine add another fringe young player and a PTBN…. But we aren’t talking about Reed, Fisher, Paulino, and Cameron for a #2 pitcher. Wont happen…..
Lackey was 35-years-old. Quintana is cost controlled for 4 years under market value for his talent………. and when that 4 years is up he’ll still be 3 years younger than Lackey was in 2014. That comparison is apples to motor oil.
Lackey was significantly older, worse, and making about twice as much money. That’s a horrible comp.
Seriously you have no idea the value a young cost controlled proven starter has. Even if he is a number 2 as you say the return for that in this market is huge. Quintana has had better more consistent seasons than Archer, Quintana is cheaper, and younger and left handed.
Now that Giolitto and Lopez are off the table the Yanks have the best package with Severino, Judge, and Mateo.. They were in a package for Adam Eaton today along with Dunning.
Except Yankees just signed Chapman so no Quintana for them
Quintana costs them prospects more than money, Cashman has stockpiled talent just for this moment. They have an excess of top infield and outfield prospects along with some big arms. This is just what the Sox are looking for, They picked up their young pitching with Kopech, Giolitto, Lopez, and Dunning, now you put Mateo in the infield with Anderson and Moncada and you have a solid young infield. The Yanks would still have Torres and Andujar as top prospects. You put Farzier or Judge in the package and now you have one of your outfielders of the future. Quintana gives the Yanks a great number 2 and makes them contenders
Hello All, I have been an avid White Sox follower from the 2012 season, Quintana’s rookie season. Having seen nearly all of his starts I wanted to give me opinion. Quintana is a front of the rotation player, he may not have the overpowering stuff of Sale but make no mistake he is a reliable and consistent starting pitcher in the MLB and he maintains an excellent ERA despite having the one of the leagues worst defenses in the MLB. To the people debating over the return he is worth: look at his contract and age.. He will be under club control for 4 years with a very team friendly contract. You guys would be lucky any of your prospects you don’t want to give up turns out to be as good as Quintana.
Fine, Atlanta. No soup for you.
“We don’t have needs in starting pitching,” says GM John Coppolella.
Clearly! You signed two 40 year olds and an inconsistent injury prone pitcher to establish your current rotation. We all know they are signed, not to make the Braves better in 2017, but to beg and hope they put up decent years so you get more overhyped prospect to continue building a farm system to please fans.
Lets just stop playing pretend and stop lying to the fans. Just trade Teheran and get more prospects. None of your pitchers that you acquired have done anything promising (Newcomb, Blair, Wisler, Folty, Jenkins, Touki). The only thing going for them is age.
“Do we want a No. 1 starter, is Chris Sale a No. 1 starter? Yes. Do we want Jose Quintana? I don’t think Jose Quintana is Chris Sale.”
He isn’t. I’d rather go after Archer!
Braves are crazy saying they don’t need pitching. They have a bunch of one year rentals. Next year they will be stuck again trying to fill 3 to 4 pitching spots. You build it year to year. Braves will finish last again.
I think the quote was taken out of context a bit. I really think he means that they don’t need pitching at the expense of selling the farm, which is true.
“Next year they will be stuck again trying to fill 3 to 4 pitching spots.”
That could be true, but I think it would be playing against the law of averages. Some of the arms in the farm will work out. Will they all be TOR material? No, of course not, but the Braves have so many pitchers that I would be shocked if they can’t at least find 2-3 decent starters in the group for 2018. Some of their more highly touted prospects will be closer to major league ready in a year or two.
Thad, you want to take a little bet on that
I think Martes and Fisher or Tucker and Whitley would be a good starting point in a trade with the Astros. Sox need to add an outfielder or two after the eaton deal. Thoughts?
Martes and Tucker would be an excellent starting point. I think the Sox would also be interested in someone like Garrett Stubbs, even if he’s not highly rated. Probably would take one more prospect around 10ish. Probably an intriguing pitcher or something along those lines. Definitely less than what they got for Sale, but it’d still be a solid return.
Stubbs would be a good get with catcher being a need for so long since we let aj go. BA has him as their number 10 so could be that 3rd guy you referenced. I think the sox would jump right away at martes, tucker, Stubbs and one more, but I’m not sure the Astros would do that much. I feel like Q is a perfect fit for this team though so maybe they’ll surprise me
Oh, no kidding. Definitely would make sense then. I was just clicking through their rankings on MLB.com and searching for things the Sox might be interested in. He was like #29 on there. That’d definitely make sense then.
Either a team will meet the asking price of Jose Quintana or they won’t, it’s as simple as that. White sox have no urgency to move him for less than what he’s worth, several years of control
After reading some of the Astros fans posts here, esp. indyjuster, I am praying the Astros front office hold on to their “oh so valuable” prospects and pass on Jose Quintana. Good luck with that rotation, lol!
So many people keep saying Astros might be the best in AL west, I just can’t put them above third with those starters they have now. I wouldn’t say their bullpen is strong enough to only need 5 or 6 innings a start either.
White Sox to have top farm
Ok sox fans let’s get real for a minute.
Nats out, yanks out, ATL out!!
Y’all just got 3 top pitching prospects plus fulmer.
4 top 50 prospect pitchers.
Including the #1 overall pitching prospect & #1 position prospect.
So next year, y’all are not trying to contend, and keeping Quintana is just a dumb risk that isn’t necessary like injury/bad season, and so on..
So Stros sending y’all 1 of 2 veteran pitchers that’s available, plus prospects like Paulino/Fisher/Stubbs, and maybe 2 other prospects to mix up your prospects, like a 100mph+ bullpen prospect, or two, that way when a playoff team needs a closer y’all can get even more cause of being deep..
Chicago get Houston’s #4or5 SP, 3 of Houston’s top 10 prospects, and 2 more of Houston’s top 25 prospects. 6 players total
Houston get JQ..
Y’all will get a vet SP, a MLB ready flame thrower in Paulino, Derek Fisher who is also ready. The other prospect have pitched in the bigs as well.. then you got a young catcher
I’m sure that could get close, and I’m sure they would there would be players added and taken off the list.
No.
First, a vet SP would add no value to the package. Second, it’ll take a lot better prospects to get Q. If we’re looking for something “similar to the Sale deal” but a little bit less, it’d take something along the lines of Martes + Tucker + Stubbs + an intriguing arm in the backend of the top 30.
If you know baseball, you know Quintana is probably the most underrated pitcher in all of baseball. The White Sox SHOULD get a package of talent close to what they got for Eaton, based on Quintana’s salary and years of control left. That said, if the Sox don’t get any takers willing to part with that much talent, they should just hang onto him and see who comes calling at the trade deadline or during next off season.
Astros would have to give up at least 3 top prospects to land Quintana. If not, move on.
I agree, Yanks – Judger or Frazier, Mateo, McKinney, and Acevedo.
I’m a huge baseball fan, but am still gaining steam on high level advanced metrics. So please enlighten me. If the ChiSox had a 25-man roster last year that had Sale, Quintana, Rodon in the rotation, Jones, Duke and Robertson in the pen, Eaton, Abreau, Frazier, Melky, and Anderson, ALL of which have either been traded for a TON of relative value, been deemed “untouchable” or Sox fans are saying still have real value. Why were they so bad and why rebuild and not retool this core?
I agree! You are either playing to win the pennant or you’re not. The Sox are not, so take what you can get and try to build to win a pennant.
They had the worst manager the league has seen in a while. Blew 20+ plus leads after 6th due to injury plagued bullpen and the owner wouldnt pay to fill area of needs.
They had fringe major leaguers in Center, DH & C. Just black holes.
A team with real ownership that had Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreau, Rodon, & Anderson locked up for the next four years for mid 40mil a year would have used those incredible savings to fill those holes prime talent was on the market.
Sale, Eaton & Q were signed for a 1/3rd of what their value. Abreau about half. Were talking about 4 of the very best contracts in the game. Rodon & Anderson on Rookie deals. The you factor in Fraizer at 20 and Melky at 28 for two years. lawrie for 4.
A team with any kind of payroll would have signed Cespedes & Fowler to 4 or 5 year deals and moved Melky to DH. ANd of course fired Ventura.
That gives you a team line up of Fowler, Eaton, Abreau, Cespedes, Fraizer, Melky, Lawrie, Anderson, & Catcher. With a rotation fronted by Sale, Q, Rodon and pen that was solid when healthy.
Sure their system was light, but that gives you four years to restock it by drafting smartly. Plenty of teams do it without high picks, You just have to do it well.
Trust me, very few teams with a top 10 tv deal & an owner as rich as JR are moving any of that core on those awesome deals. They’re applying money saved in those spots to the lacking ones.
Problem is they have a cheap owner who won’t spend taking on rich owners who do. We’re talking about a guy who paid 16 million for the Bulls in 1984 (who have lead the NBA in attendance the last 30 years) and owns the United Center… but he just won’t spend big money outside the budget number that keeps them in the black. Just not who he is.
Bottom line is theyre a bad organization from ownership to drafting to talent development to pro personnel (ie Jerry & Kenny). No it looks like Hahn holds more sway now as theyve drafting better and made better moves but we’ll see.
And again, cant stress how bad ventura was.