Some trade chatter from around baseball…
- The Mariners talked with the Rays about a trade for Drew Smyly at the Winter Meetings, the Seattle Times’ Ryan Divish reports. The M’s were known to be talking to the Rays about their pitching this winter, with Smyly mentioned as a better potential fit since the Mariners probably don’t have the prospect depth to land Chris Archer or Jake Odorizzi. Smyly posted solid but only decent numbers over 175 1/3 innings for Tampa last season, and with a projected $6.9MM arbitration figure, he has been often mentioned as a possible trade candidate for the payroll-conscious Rays.
- The Blue Jays reportedly turned down the Rockies’ ask of Marcus Stroman as part of a deal for Charlie Blackmon earlier this winter, and that seems to have ended the Jays’ chance of landing the outfielder, MLB.com’s Gregor Chisholm writes. “Talks quickly died” between the two clubs once Stroman wasn’t made available, and Chisholm doesn’t think Toronto has enough other trade chips to get Colorado’s interest.
- There is always a premium on trading for pitching, though evaluators tell ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (subscription required) that the prospect haul the White Sox received from the Red Sox for Chris Sale has driven the price of available arms through the roof. “It’s crazy. It’s like everyone is trying to replicate their version of the [Sale] trade,” one executive said. As Olney notes, teams with pitching to spare like the Rays, Diamondbacks or the White Sox again (with Jose Quintana) lose nothing by making high demands now, since they could always shop their starters at the July trade deadline or next winter.
- The Athletics are thought to have “at least gauged trade interest for” Jed Lowrie, CSNBayArea.com’s Joe Stiglich writes. A deal could be difficult due to the foot surgery that prematurely ended Lowrie’s 2016 season last August, not to mention Lowrie’s long injury history in general and his middling numbers in recent seasons. Salary could also be a consideration, as Lowrie is guaranteed $6.5MM in 2017, and he has a $6MM club option (with a $1MM buyout) on his services for 2018. Dealing Lowrie would create even more uncertainty for the A’s at second base, a position Billy Beane already admits is “a concern” in the short term. Joey Wendle and Chad Pinder could be options at second if Lowrie is dealt or not healthy, while top shortstop prospect Franklin Barreto could also potentially switch to the keystone down the road.
The Pirates should try for Smyly. He wouldn’t cost their top prospects like Archer or Quintana would.
Would still cost a lot though. Rays aren’t in the habit of letting cheapish, good SP’s with two years of control go for nothing.
He will be way cheaper than Archer or Quintana. Would be a better move for the Bucs to make.
Yeah for any team Smyle seems to be way more affordable, Archer is stuck in himself anyway
Why does the media think Blackmon was even possible. A guy like cargo makes way more sense. Jays need a couple corner outfielders not a centre fielder
The Rockies are loose cannons. I’d probably just not deal with them until i could reach some common ground with them.
Its not ridiculous for the Rockies to base a package around Blackmon for a frontline starter. They should be hunting Quintana and Archer….an ace is a game changer for them. That offense is very threatening at this point.
Yeah but guys, outfielders are not what is getting it done for pitching prospects and still like Quintana way over Archer
Im not saying Blackmon gets it done alone…the Rockies have a nice system
Pitching prospects are actually dealt over outfield prospects because they have such a crazy attrition rate. Proven starters are valuable because they’ve managed to fend of at least some of that attrition.
Isn’t that how ALL trades work? Teams don’t deal until they reach common ground.
I’ve always thought that the Braves should trade for Smyly. Then go all out for Wieters
I hope they don’t go all out for Weiters. It just doesn’t make sense. At this point in his career, he just is not much more valuable then the tandem of catchers the Braves have already
Why should they target a young player with limited years of control they’re not contending this next year
Will see what happen wt the trade for Sale!! Hes a prouven pitcher!! Prospects are prospects nothing sure!! Remember Milesbrook Myers from Tampa and even Buchosl
dude, Christmas got u that drunk? I cringed reading that.
Maybe he’s just high on life, the universe, and being a Red Sox fan?
Loll
Do you remember Millie/Xander/JBJ? They were prospects not too long ago.
Mookie*, stupid phone.
I remember every player that’s in the MLB were once prospects too. Fascinating
You know who else was a prospect? Chris Sale. And…..every player who has entered MLB as an amateur. The whole “prospects are unproven” line is so tired. If they were proven commodities, they wouldn’t be traded.
I’m curious to know what a Mariners package for Smyly would look like. I like the M’s top 3 prospects, but feel like their system really falls off after that.
Blackmon for Stroman? That’s an awful deal for Toronto, therefore I can’t believe Shapiro/Atkins said no.
When have they made a bad trade since coming to Toronto?
Melvin Upton a terrible, so that’s one
That’s actually a good trade…They gave up nothing and got a fourth outfielder with 20hr power, decent defense and some speed and they only have to pay him 5 mil for one and a half seasons. They can also try to flip him this year if they feel the need to. The only bad trade the front office made so far was storen but they corrected that mistake.
Every other trade or signing they’ve made have worked out well. This front office has hit on pretty much every move they’ve made so I don’t know why people keep criticizing them. Just because people love aa doesn’t mean shapiro and atkins suck.
Agreed the deal was good, but to expect anything more than a platoon from him is a massive risk, the issue with the Shatkins combo is that they are extremely uncertain and tentative with managing the team, the Sanchez innings limit in one sense, having 3 catchers continuously, 2 years in now and they still haven’t fixed the pen. and they continue to look for miracles to fill holes.
If they were smart the would make a deal for a CF (Cutch/Blackmon etc) and move Pillar to left. Or put Cutch in left with his eroding D. The internal options are gross. Ez is a solid 4th, Pompey has nothing that says he is ready to make the jump so at this point the Jays are seriously looking at a last place finish if they do not address, OF, RP & C
Save some money and let McGuire back up Martin and learn from one of the best. Dioner has awful D, it is like they wheeled out the clubhouse fridge and put it behind the plate. Thole, well he is just a waste of a spot. McGuire is mlb ready D, and would benefit a real hitting environment with good hitting pros to work his skills. (And if people are offering up insane ideas and rumors, I would love Wieters, he and Martin tandem would be slick, overkill, but slick.)
Jays farm is super weak by comparison, and Stroman is the only real piece to get a quality OF back.
Sadly, with the way the management moves, we will end up with Saunders and Bautista again…. They only shop in the bargain bin, and the cost of players in trade is exorbitant right now.
The Drew Storen trade looked good “on paper”. Picking up the Nationals’ former closer? Sure! But, as you know, games aren’t played on paper. Storen just didn’t work out, as is so often the case with NL relief pitchers coming to the AL East. If he’d pitched up to his potential, the Jays could very well have won the division given how many ball games he and other Jays relief pitchers threw away early in the season.
Justin Smoak $8M extension? Nuff said
Waller: That was a signing, not a trade,
The storen trade wasn’t really a loss though, since both him and revere were awful. We traded trash for trash. Upton isn’t even close to a bad deal. And Smoak at 4 million isn’t bad. It’s market value and if a roster spot is needed, they can trade him to a rebuilding trade for a nothing prospect
They’ve also done an amazing job at rebuilding our farm, with the liriano trade and signing gurriel and drafting a nice arm like Zeuch. Add that to Guerrero, Alford, urena, Greene, Reid foley and Harris and we low key have a really good farm imo
Really good farm? Not according to the experts, Jays are in the bottom half of the league, with no prospect major league ready. It will be a while before we know what is good Double A and lower.
3 top 100 prospects for the Jays at MILB right now. Right on par for a 30 team league. Better than what the experts are saying, which would be exactly what a “low key really good farm” is if I had to guess.
Gurriel and Guerrero could arrive around the same time if everything falls right. They could all struggle to adapt on the other hand.
I can see Rowdy Tellez arriving in that bunch too. Maybe another arm emerges. There’s young bullpen options to choose from by next summer.
It’s pretty impressive how quickly the Shatkins has rebuilt the farm in my biased opinion.
The core is in place, just gotta add some filler. Remember how well they played with Zeke last year. Why not try him out. Sign Saunders or Rajai to round out a scrappy outfield rotation.
Use the rest of the money to win fans over with buyouts of Stroman/Sanchez arbitration years. Travis, Pillar, Osuna can wait another year but lock up these aces before they get expensive is the blueprint that seems to be used quite well in Cleveland.
Smoak will be one of the best values in baseball next year if they give him 450 AB. Check what he did in May with fulltime ABs. I’ll shout it from the rooftops. Guy’s gonna do well.
All for now Jays fans.
Forgot to mention–
Storen was a disaster waiting to happen. So was Revere. Hilarious prank these teams played on each other. Storen was consistently blowing it when it counted and the Nats couldn’t wait to get rid of him. Cost the Jays a few games in a short time. I’m impressed he did so well in Seattle. Good division for him.
Benoit was a good return. Underdogs rather than former prospects is the bullpen formula for Toronto behind Osuna perhaps?? Keep trying rule 5’s and scenery changes. It worked last year. Frustrating to see them work on a budget, but I keep telling myself there is still another splash to come. C’mon Rogers/Shatkins!
You shouldn’t be paying a 4th OF $5 million for terrible defence and a strike out machine he looks lost at the plate.
Smoak will be one of the best values in baseball?
Have you seen him play before?
This is unbelievably bad analysis. Pillar is conpelrely wasted in LF, that singularly disqualifies you from discussing anything else but I’ll go on.
Martin desperately needs a quality back up so he doesn’t break down like last year. Navarro’ D is not that bad and did a wonderful job with Estrada a year ago.
The Jays farm system is not weak, it’s top ten, there just isn’t major league ready talent.
You’re criticizing management group that made the playoffs in Toronto and built a World Series Indians team.
why are you assuming that top 100 prospects are evenly distributed among teams and also discounting the quality of said prospects (#1 is worth a ton more than #100) in your opinion on farm systems?
Navarro is one of the worst pitch framers in baseball and where do you get that they are a top 10 farm?
RobLovesArguing, the irony of accusing some bad analysis and what you posted about Navarro and the farm. Come on man. At least quantify your quackery with some metrics. Wait you can’t because both are not in the realm of average and certainly not above. So what if Estrada and Dioner had a solid season that is more on Estrada as he made Dioner look good. He rates below average as a pitch framer and is a liability behind the plate defensively.
chesteraarthur- touchee.
Attempt to keep it simple was the goal. you are 100% on point.
For every team that has stronger prospects, I assume there will be another that has weaker. Jays having 3 lower rated among top 100 still puts them around 20th I’d imagine.
Every move seems designed on improving this, and it seems to be working so far. It’s quite difficult to say the farm is worse than last year.
If the jays had the 98,99,100 as their top, I would still consider it better than the reputation. And trying to be partial but still certainly biased, the system feels to be be getting sneaky good.
Just having 3 of the top 100 in a 30 team league fits my definition of on par. Without counting, I’d assume teams with 3 rank around the teens. Not top ten!!! No chance!!! Lower end of teens in jays best case.
I’m thinking an extra pick- maybe 2 still, and another year for Tellez and Guerrero, plus a full year out of Alford and Gurriel could see the jays “low key really good farm” become a really good farm by this time next year.
mcconaugheyslincoln:
I have seen Smoak sit on the bench more than I’ve seen him play.
Got about 4 weeks of semi fulltime duty in 2015 and did ok with it. Longest stretch of regular ABs was about 2 weeks that season. Not enough for his swing to get going.
Got about 12 weeks of semi fulltime duty in 2016, but what most people remember is the last 15 weeks where they stopped playing him. Up to mid June, you could say he was a decent 6 hitter. OPS near .800 with ok playing time, and stayed above .700 despite gathering dust for the last 4 months.
He can sit against LHP to help his overall stats and be a good 6 hitter again against RHP. I’m confident if they give him 15-25AB a week for 25 weeks, that he will end up around .800 OPS. Misused greatly so far in his career.
Given a shot to succeed as a youngster that just lost his dad had to be tough.
Doing it in Safeco, even tougher.
Beltre- future HOFer had a tough time in Safeco.
Ichiro- future HOFer has a tough time in a bench role, thrives with ABs.
Smoak should be give a fair chance one of these days. Kinda excited to see it happen this year. Beast last May but the rest of the year was a lot of bench time.
Dioner is slightly above Thole. Depending on cost. Might even see what Thole can do catching a normal pitch if he’s cheaper. Backup catcher isn’t worth a sweat. Martin can rest once every week and it’s only gonna be 25 starts. Dioner might even be worse than the other replacement options out there. The Estrada magic didn’t return. The guy’s not a dealbreaker in any way. Not gonna play enough to hit worth a lick, may as well go for a defensive wiz.
patborders92:
The fear right now is that they’re paying $5 million for a 3rd OF. Someone needs to bump Upton down to a 4th OF role ASAP. If he sees regular AB against RHP, it can’t go great. He can cover Pillar a couple times a month, and be pretty good against LHP for $5 million.
Right now, if they go cheap, and don’t add anyone, the outfield needs major help vs RHP. Even with someone added, the outfield needs major help vs RHP. Carrera and Upton are both better vs LHP. Pearce probably plays a lot of RF while Carrera and Upton compete for who hits RHP worse in LF??
Saunders would be a real nice fit the more I think about things. Still probably get the pick for Bautista, fill a big hole for a lowered price, redeem themselves for burying him over Upton down the stretch, play the Captain Canada game at the AllStar game again…..
Or Pagan wouldn’t be too bad.
I kinda want to see Rajai come back, but he isn’t great against RHP either, I only want the speed.
Rasmus just for the Colby-ness would be kinda fun, and better platoon with Upton than Carrera or Rajai would be. Maybe not, but still kinda fun. Getting pretty close to scraping the bottom of the barrel already, it’s starting to get nervous out here.
Upton in a full time role, in a decent park sort of intrigues me. Not sure I can stomach the thought yet. Probably better than Colby or Rajai. I’d rather see Saunders, Pagan, Bautista- in that order.
End ramble. All for now jays fans. Cheers.
I’m a little surprised that you are so high on Smoak, yet so low on Upton. If you look at their careers, at least Upton has done it before and can contribute other ways than with just his bat. I wouldn’t be excited over either move, but if I was a Jays fan I would rather play Upton full time in the OF and Pearce at 1B/DH, than Pearce in the OF and Smoak full time at 1B/DH.
therealryan:
Simply because Smoak has the advantage against RHP, where Upton has advantage against LHP.
Always bet the guy that hits RHP better. I’d bet 70% of pitchers throw righty?? Easier to find a rhythm when you’re on the strong side of the platoon.
Your proposal isn’t a bad thought. I am quite intrigued to see fulltime Bossman outside of pitcher’s park. But the splits vs RHP make me think the intrigue will fade fast.
I agree but feel like the media overrates what Stro has actually done on the bump. I feel like if the jays were to trade a pitcher they could flip liriano to the Rockies for cargo might have to throw in a lottery ticket or two but both are short term guys.
Stromans still young though and had an amazing ground ball rate last year, and his peripherals show he was unlucky. Expect a bounce back season next year
Would love to trade Jed Lowrie for even a middle reliever. Guy is not good, period. Signing him was a huge mistake
The A’s would get rid of him for nothing if they could. Probably will need to eat some of the money to dump Lowrie.
Am I the only one that didn’t think the Sale trade was THAT huge of a haul for the White Sox? Don’t get me wrong, I think they made a nice deal, but I don’t think they fleeced Boston by any means… The way that “one executive” makes it sound, everyone apparently thinks this is Shelby Miller 2.0… Maybe I’m just reading it incorrectly, but I don’t really think the Sale trade did anything to drive up prices on lesser players…
(and this is coming from a White Sox fan)
I agree we got one very good Prospect another pretty good Prospect and a couple of question marks definitely a solid haul but not game changing if they had gotten moncada & benintendi that would be game changing
It was a haul in the fact that it was probably one of the highest price(prospect wise) for 1 player but sale has a ton of value going forward so it’s not a Shelby deal by any means where the imbalance is so obvious.
It was a huge haul, but it was a fair value haul. They certainly didn’t “fleece” the Red Sox, but they got top value for their most valuable asset.
It was a rare case of a deal that involved a proven elite Major League talent for elite prospects. Prospects aren’t ever a guarantee, but I firmly believe that in Moncada’s case that his peak will have him as at least a top 30 position player in MLB. Best case he’s in the conversation of best position player in baseball “Non Mike Trout Division”.
Would like to see the Mariners get Alex Cobb.
@redsox fan for life..forget about baseball for awhile and learn english
Lowrie and $500k for Benintendi seems like a good deal go make it happen Billy.
Also making it tough to trade Lowrie is the fact that he sucks
Lowrie had a down year but was injured. How about Lowrie Smolinski and Alcantara for Puig and Kazmir? Lowire can hit LHP when not hurt. Play 1B 3B and some 2B. Smolinski owns LHP and plays all three outfield spots. Alcantara could be 5th starter or long man. Dodgers get to dump some payroll so they reset their cap likely a year from now.
Puig isn’t really very expensive and Kazmir and Lowrie have zero trade value at this point. Last thing the Fodgers need to trade for is a fifth starter or platoon outfielder.