The Nationals and Pirates re continuing to discuss “a lot of different angles” that would result in outfielder Andrew McCutchen landing in D.C., according to ESPN.com’s Jim Bowden (via Twitter). He notes that the information came from a source in the Pittsburgh organization.
There had been some suggestion that the Nats wanted to make a move on McCutchen before this evening’s non-tender deadline. The idea, it seems, was that the club would non-tender shortstop Danny Espinosa if it added McCutchen, which would free Trea Turner to move back into the infield.
As it turned out, nothing is yet done and Washington tendered Espinosa. That apparently isn’t posing much of an obstacle to continued exploration of a deal involving McCutchen. It’s worth bearing in mind that even tendered players aren’t guaranteed their full contracts until late in the spring. And Espinosa would likely be a plausible trade candidate if D.C. decided to part ways.
Regarding the fact that there are still many different scenarios at play, that’s perhaps not surprising. All indications are that the Bucs wish to obtain premium young talent in any trade involving McCutchen. We’ve heard top Nats prospect Victor Robles mentioned quite a bit, along with a variety of the club’s quality, youthful starting pitching. From the perspective of the Nationals, though, giving up even Robles seems like a big ask given McCutchen’s struggles in this past season. It seems possible that the organizations are working on ways to balance out the value — perhaps, even involving other teams — to facilitate a mutually agreeable swap, though it’s all guesswork at this point.
If Robles is included at all I’ll consider it a bad move by Rizzo.
Agreed. Robles is untouchable unless it’s in a Sale deal imo
No way Robles is headliner for Sale, only way Sale is traded to Nats then Turner has to go the other way, Astros-Bregman Red Sox-Moncada Rangers-Mazara etc
Never said he’d be the headliner, and I agree with the Turner part 100%. Which is why I don’t want them to do it, but knowing Rizzo always wanting to make a big splash, it’s certainly plausable.
I don’t think we need Sale. We have 3 cheap(er) starters who are good to decent and two front line starters. Our regulars have always been the issue. We seem to have no depth in case of injuries and failures.
I don’t either. I’d rather us keep our current SP depth rather than trade it all away in McCutchen/Sale deals.
yeah let Giolito, Lopez, KG etc try out for closer duties in spring training.
Well you could trade Robles for Cutch and end up having the top 2 MVP vote getters in 2017 with Harper and Cutch or both could have the same season as 16 and you probally badly lose the trade but only if Robles turns out as good as he is supposed too. In this case I think it’s worth the risk but everyone thinks differently.
I’ve been wrong before, but I don’t see McCutchen ever being as good as he was.
I think it’s not just that it’s a risk thing, it’s just that it isn’t really necessary. If they demand them, then the Nats could just as easily go sign Fowler or Desmond instead. It’s just that at a point, it’s not worth the prospects anymore. It might be different if he was a cheap, cost-controlled guy, but he isn’t. Yes, he’s cheap compared to Cespy and the market for OF now, but they could also get Fowler for the same price financially and keep their prospects. Don’t get me wrong, he has value still. There is just a line where it isn’t worth it anymore. The question is just is that line enough prospects for the Pirates to pull the trigger. We just don’t know what that line is.
And if be isn’t included, it’s a bad deal for the Pirates. Robles is a few years away and prospects are nice, but rarely live up to expectations.
Tough trade to make happen, their top 4 are almost too much for Cutch and the drop off from there isn’t enough with out multiple pieces to take a shot on.
If the Nats won’t part with Robles and Ross for McCutchen then why even keep talking to them. Any deal for Cutch better blow NH away or don’t make the trade.
If the pirates want Robles AND Ross, why even keep talking to them.
You mean “any two of their top four are too much for Cutch, and the drop off from there makes it hard to add on to any one of the top four.”
Remember, the question isn’t whether McCutchen is better than these guys. It’s whether two years of McCutchen plus the $28M he’s owed for those years worth more than six+ cheap years for the players coming back. That’s a very different question.
Andrew McCutchen, Tony Watson, Gage Hinsz
for
Joe Ross, Victor Robles, Danny Espinosa, Carter Kieboom, AJ Cole
Ross, Robles….. & Cole?……..Wow!
AJ Cole, not Gerritt Cole. I don’t see Cole being anything special. I would be hesitant to trade Ross and Robles. I don’t know Kieboom.
Exactly. He’s not a Giolito but he has 4-5 potential. Kieboom is Nats #5 prospect and is a SS but only 19. I think it would be a relatively fair trade with the inclusion of Watson who would become their closer. He’s been very good for several years, although this last year wasn’t his best. If not being their closer would be a great setup guy, which he is used to.
I don’t see Cole as 4-5 either. I prefer some other closer than Watson. Wish one of our young relievers steal that job.
Spencer or Carter? Aren’t they both in the nats farm system?
Carter.
It’s a pretty big overpay in my opinion, but it seems like that is what Pirates are banking on.
Clutch,Harrison for Zimmer,Almonte,Starling,Dozier or O’Hean,Watson,Staumomt and so on?
i think both of those offers are terrible for the Pirates.
I don’t see the pirates wanting espinosa at all. the nats including him in a deal is basically the Nats saying.. “Here you tell him he is fired”
Giving up Robles would be a fail. Way too much for a declining Cutch. Just don’t do that deal. Would rather give up less for one year of Lorenzo Cain.
19 year old in A ball isn’t a hell of a lot to deal for a guy who was mvp a few years ago and is only 30,lets not make it out like he’s washed up.
Yeah but you have to put what a player accomplished a few years ago in the back of your mind when making these type of decisions. Yeah he was elite, but what a guy once was shouldn’t dictate what he currently is, a 0.7WAR player. I absolutely expect him to up that a little bit, but he isn’t the 6WAR guy he once was. I mean he had an atrocious -18.7 UZR. He needs to be moved from CF to LF because that is unacceptable.
I agree. Cutch could come back and be comeback player of the year, but I don’t think that will be the case. He didn’t have a bad season at age 26 and we’re looking at him after that. He is on the wrong side of 30 now, and his defensive metrics show an effect. If I’m the Nats and looking at this knowing I have Turner that can already play there and I can just find another SS, I don’t offer either one of Giolito or Robles. If they insist, just move on. I don’t think anyone is going to overpay for him.
It’ll take the acquiring team not valuing their prospects as highly as the Pirates for a trade to happen. Or a front office that really doesn’t care about his decline, but then again that’s just stupidity on their part lol.
so he has 1 bad year because of a lingering thumb issue for most of the year and he’s all of a sudden washed up???? that sounds like the opinion of a biased fan trying to get a bonafied superstar on the cheap. I believe he’ll back bounce at at least a 4.5-5 WAR and could probably higher in a lineup surrounded by Harper, Zimmerman and Werth. So I’m selling at a minimum of 5 WAR per season X 2 seasons thats at least 10 WAR for 28.5 M. 1 WAR is arround 8-9M so you’re talking about around 55-60M in excess value. There is also excess value in that at that level of production he instantly becomes an MVP candidate Neil H. should NOT ACCEPT any deal for Cutch that does NOT INCLUDE Robles + Giolito. that should be the framework of a deal. I would bot be unopposed to adding Tony Watson and also getting a Voth or Fedde back too.
Nobody knows if it was a lingering thumb issue or not. If it effected him that much, he should have sat more. Instead he complained and downplayed the one time he did sit. His play has continued to decline the only part of his game he has left is offense. I think it improves but not to what he was. Around .280 hitter
i’m just saying a 19 year old in A ball has a long ways to go before he makes it to the majors let alone becoming an all star,tons of can’t miss prospects miss.
Not really. With Robles defense and base running ability, his floor is pretty high. No way I’d give up Robles and Giolito if I were the Nats.
Cutch isn’t declining. He didn’t have protection in the lineup all year. David Freese hit behind him. Cutch tried to do too much with bad pitches.
so much stupid. He’s been declining every year since his mvp one. Don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative…
Facts > Speculation
Stats don’t show everything in the game of baseball. If you don’t protect you’re best hitters MLB pitchers will zero in on them. Cutch was clearly trying to do too much at the plate. Pitchers didn’t need to challenge him because the next guy up was of little threat. In 2012 and 13 his best statistical years he had a 30 plus homerun guy hitting behind him. Cutch was more selective then and got into better counts. Fielding wise he’s not a great outfielder but the Pirates do play him too shallow. Nevertheless he can still produce great numbers at the plate. I think the Nationals fans will see that when this trade goes final. Stats are a great thing but they don’t always tell the full story in any sport. If they did there would be no use for scouts anymore.
Lineup protection doesn’t work that way. It’s barely even a thing, and only really affects walk rate.
And the lineup protection narrative doesn’t explain why his defense and baserunning have regressed as well.
the defesne and base running (in terms of steals) hasent declined that much… it was never really good. his first to third speed is still there though.
Cutch swung and missed at more strikes than ever in his career. Also… he rarely had Freese behind him. Marte, kang and polanco were hitting behind him all year.
I agree. No Robles. If Pittsburgh insists, move on. There’s other fish in the sea. Via trade, I do like the idea of Cain, even though he’s just a one-year rental. There’s also Brett Gardner and Marcel Ozuna (and possibly Adam Eaton or Charlie Blackmon). The decision also could be made to move Harper to center, allowing a trade for a corner outfielder such as JD Martinez.
then move on Neil. Enjoy Ian Desmond and Fowler. Neither one can hold Cutch’s jockstrap! Move on to the Dodgers and maybe see if the Giants and or Mets are interested before looking into the multitude of teams in the AL. another 1st round failure that’s if you even get a shot with a resurgent METS team and that pitching staff and a Braves team making solid moves.
bad trade, just leave cutch in pittsburgh
Agreed
Here’s a scenario…
Keep Cutch. Because it makes more sense than any possible return you could possibly get for him right now.
Also… I wish the fans owned the teams and we could trade our owners. Cause man… I’m sick of this. We’re not poor. We just don’t spend. And we’re gonna cut ties with a near perennial all star on a team friendly contract who actually wants to stay in our city because of a bad year. Unbelievable.
He’s the life of the clubhouse.
And before Cutch, I watched this team essentially be a farm club for the rest of Major League Baseball since ’92. I’m sick of it. I can’t be the only fan that is.
And if he stinks this year and the year after… so what. Seriously. It will be worth the risk to gamble on him. He’s not going to regain his foot speed. Clearly that injury after getting beamed in AZ changed something. Knee injuries do that. But I believe his bat will bounce back.
I’m ranting, but man, I’m mad. I’m fed up with not finding value and integrity beyond numbers.
And greed. Greedy owners. I’m sick of it.
Pirates do not have the same following as the steelers and the pens. The fans will not sit through another 20 plus years of this BS. Don’t trade Cutch.
Let it out man let it out I would be just as mad if I was a pirate fan
The struggle is real
How can it make more sense to keep Cutch than to trade him for any possible return when no one has any idea what the return might be. They don’t have to trade him, and if Nats or any team thinks they can get a great deal for him based on a down year the Pirates will walk away. And he’ s not on the market “because of a bad year,” he’s on the market because we WILL lose him after 2018. I’ll be as sad as anyone when he leaves (now, July, or next winter), but I want them to be competitive every year, and trading Cutch increases the odds of that happenimg.
To answer your question, I’ll clarify my position from a much less emotional standpoint.
1) any possible return… true, I don’t KNOW what the return will be. That’s accurate. What I believe is that the return, at this point, wouldn’t be enough to justify trading him. He is at a career low right now. Trading him right now makes very little sense. He is on a team friendly contract and he expressed, on numerous occasions that he would like to stay in Pittsburgh. His value, in my belief, is beyond what the metrics show. What he represents in leadership and morale for the team means.—well, to anyone who has played sports on a good team or a bad team— means a great deal.
Also, our the Pirates saw a revival with Cutch. From my understanding, and I could be wrong here, Cutch wasn’t highly touted as a prospect. He was an underdog in many ways and grew to become an MVP caliber player.
He keeps things fun in the clubhouse and with the fans.
Remember what the Pirates used to do before the Zoltan? I do. They lost. And was that the reason… no, probably not. But they begin to win because they began the type of camaraderie that promotes winning. The team was clearly having fun. It was clear to anyone who was watching closely. And Cutch was a huge part of that resurgence.
2) I DO believe he’s only being pushed to be traded because of that down year. If Cutch had another great year last season, I do not believe he’d be on the block. They’d be looking to compete this coming season, and Cutch would be in those plans. I’d predict, at that point, they’d attempt a swap of unproven prospects (meadows) to address their actual NEEDS (Starting Rotation) in order to be competitive. Will they lose him in two years? Perhaps… but again, maybe not. He like it in Pittsburgh. Maybe we lose him to free agency, maybe we don’t. But I don’t think selling low is the answer. At this point, you ride it out and at least hope for a bounce back. I hope that they would consider the massive value beyond the numbers.
3)… I don’t agree that we are a better team without Cutch. I don’t agree that we have a better chance of winning without Cutch. I just don’t. And this may come across like some Cutch lovefest, but it’s not that either. I was down on Cutch this year. I was down on him the year before. I thought he was getting cocky when he proclaimed himself the best player on the team after getting hit in AZ. But I think that’s being human and you have to let some of these guys make some mistakes and learn from them. He had some regression. He’s not assaulting women or drinking and driving, he’s just working through a regression and finding whatever this new phase of player he is.
I look at the Cubs and their young players… there is a certain level of maturity in them despite their age. They carry themselves differently. Guys like Ross and Heyward (who put up abysmal numbers) probably factor in to chicago’s success more than any of us could imagine. If you want to win, I get that. But I believe that is done with balance, and understanding that everyone has a specific role to play. Cutch plays a very unique and specific role. To the players. To the fans. And that is not easily replaced. And part of that isn’t something someone can teach you.
I think most people are and will approach this from a logistical perspective. And they are not wrong for doing that. So maybe I’m swinging the pendulum the other way a bit when I speak of the romance of baseball. The things that money can’t buy or replace. Because maybe someone needs to do that.
And even after I do that… when I take a step back and look at the logistics… it STILL doesn’t make sense. If he stays healthy, he’ll have just as much value at the trade deadline (maybe more) when teams are scrambling to upgrade. But I the Pirates need to, at least, give it until then. He is worth that gamble.
I feel your pain. I was a Reds fan from the BRM era until some point this past season. But,they haven’t done squat since 1990. A few postseason wins with Dusty,but not enough. I’m a Cubbie now. I jumped ship. The Reds are a hot mess right now.
Bandwagon
I think trading cutch is the right move. He’s done. Even if he bounces back some he can’t play that prime defense anymore. Might as well let another team with high expectations overpay for him.
I’m like 85% sure pirates will come out ahead.
Pirates don’t HAVE to trade cutch, and don’t have to force something like with walker
Agreed
Why the heck do people think Turner is in a Sale trade!!!!!!!! The Nats already said that they would shut down all trade talks if the White Sox insisted on Turner’s inclusion in the deal.
its quite easy!! NO TURNER……NO SALE!
Angels better get Danny Espinosa if WSH non tenders him
He was tendered so…..
Just going back and forth on different posts, it’s a lot of the same talk and conversation back and forth. Some say Cutch is worth a ton, some don’t. Some say Sale won’t be had without Turner, and I disagree. Both deals will hurt the Nationals, but I think they would both help them a ton.
If the Nats were able to work out a deal for both before making them public, I think the Nats could get it done with Ross, Cole, and a couple of small pieces. His value is down, and now he is over 30. Fine, you might say he is worth more, but I think that’s the value you are going to get. Otherwise, the Nats look elsewhere since their OF would already be Werth, Turner, and Harper without signing someone like Fowler. I personally don’t think he is worth grabbing unless he can be had cheap. And that’s because…
I think they need to go for Sale, and I feel like that could also be done without Sale. They can start and offer with Giolito, Robles, and Lopez headlining (or Ross if he is not included for Cutch). From there, you can add guys like Fedde and Taylor. That gives Chicago the #3, #10, and #37 prospects to headline, as well Fedde who checks in at #75. 2 top 10’s, a top 50, and a top 100. That’s a pretty massive haul, and good for both teams. There is no other team that could do two top 10’s that actually would. The Red Sox have #1 Moncada and #5 Benintendi, but I doubt that would give up both of them in a trade. The Nats can.
anybody who says or believes Cutch is worth a ton clearly doesn’t care about anything besides the basic stats or is a Pirates fan who love him, the latter of which is completely understandable.
he isn’t worth “a ton”, but he’s worth more than a lot of the offers here have been IMO. lots of Nats fans think he can be bought for pennies on the dollar.
That offer for Sale you made is insane. Rizzo would never give up his farm system for Sale like that. He has yet to mortgage the future like that and I don’t see it happening now.
Would Sale make the Nationals better? Yes, but how much better? Looking strictly at last seasons numbers Sale would fall in the 3rd-4th rotation spot. Behind Scherzer and Roark and before or after Strasburg, Gio will be traded this offseason and Giolito, Ross, Lopez will be in that 4 and 5 spot if Sale doesn’t get dealt to us.
I don’t want Sale, he’d cost too much in assets. It isn’t the pitching that is keeping this team from advancing in the playoffs it’s the hitting.
I understand that Prospects are just that and they don’t all pan out. Looking at the future upcoming years the Nats could afford to trade 2 of Ross, Giolito, Lopez, and Fedde and the other 2 can slide into the rotation when needed. Strasburg and Scherzer are on longer deals although Stephen has an opt out. I Don’t see Robles being dealt, Rizzo is high in him, he’s considered a 5 tool prospect and after this season Werth is gone, after the following season Harper is most likely gone and if they were to trade for Cutch he’d also be gone. Replacing all 3 OF positions in 2 years will be tough, giving up one of the games top OF prospects that estimates to be ready in about 2 years? I don’t think so.
I understand your thinking, I just disagree. The Nats are in an amazing position to win now. The Mets are probably their only real competition in the East, and whichever team doesn’t win the division could easily take a wild card spot.
So, here’s the reason I disagree. Sale adds huge value to the team as an ace that is durable. His numbers will only get better with a switch to the NL from the AL. In my mind, he would slot in behind Scherzer with Strasburg becoming the best #3 in the game. This also takes pressure off Strasburg, who has issues staying healthy (remember the first time they made the playoffs and lost to the Cards and then last year). Both times, he wasn’t healthy for the playoffs. They would have a rotation of Scherzer, Sale, Strasburg, Roark, and a fifth. Easily the best 1-2-3-4 in the game.
To your note about the prospects and the loss of them, this is the bigger argument. If they trade them all and go all out this year and next year, and fail, they are still in a very good position come trade deadline of next year. They could then go into rebuild mode, and they would have trade chips like Scherzer, Harper, Strasburg, Sale, and more to recoup those that would be lost now. Harper, Stras, and Sale alone could easily restock it. Scherzer would depend on how he regresses, but the others would be in their primes. And, they wouldn’t even need to go into full sell mode if they didn’t want. They have a lot of big contracts coming off the books in Gio Gonzalez, Werth next year, Zimmerman after that. If they wanted, they could pay a ton to extend Harper and keep a core of him, Strasburg, Sale, Turner, and Rendon, and then restock from FA in 2018 with the group that is entering then. Right now, they aren’t building a team to win the division. They already have that. When you are building a team to win a WS, you build a team to beat the best, and you need to beat the Cubs before even getting to it.
You make fair points. I still don’t believe it would take as big a package as you offered to get Sale and I also don’t see Rizzo making that type of deal. He has yet to make a deal like that. That being said he hasn’t really been in a position with as many highly touted prospects(top 100) as he does right now. The only trade where he traded a bunch of the organizations top 10 was to acquire Gio in which he also had a team friendly extension in worked out when trading for him.
I am a die hard Nats fan, watch all the games, go to their double A farm system games when they are in town. Before the Nats came to town I grew up a Pirates fan. I still follow them and I understand what Cutch has brought back to that city and I understand why Buccos fans think his value is so high. His numbers were not good offensively and certainly not defensively last season. The package they could have gotten for him last offseason would have been a lot bigger, it seems most of the fans are still looking for a comparable package as they’d have gotten last year. As a Nats fan I’d love to have him in Center this season and then slip him over to Left after Werth is gone next year. Or when Werth inevitably gets hurt. Cutch could bounce back a little and is a great clubhouse presence that I believe would fit perfectly into our clubhouse. The most I’d probably give up to get him though would be Fedde, Difo and maybe Voth or Cole. Even that might be too much at this point.
On top of Fedde, Difo and Voth/Cole, I’d throw in Michael A. Taylor. They will need someone to man the outfield until Meadows is ready. I think that’s a fair offer. The Pirates will never accept it, though.
I personally believe trea turner and robles would be a perfect fit in a trade for mr trout.
As long of a shot as that is, I think the only way Turner gets moved is part of a deal for Trout that would also have to include both Giolito and Robles. It would be simply incredible to see Harper and Trout in the same OF though. I wish. I personally think the Angels should trade him. They could get a lot. It’s also tough to compete in that division right now alone as well as for a Wild Card spot. That’s why I think the Mariners should have sold off awhile ago too.
Trout is going to cost much more than that. Angels would need MLB ready talent and top prospects which only a few teams have and even then I highly highly doubt it is enough. Actually looking it over the only real plausible match would be with Rangers and even then.
No, I agree. It’s going to take a ton and would take more pieces than I mentioned. My point was more just that I think they should trade him. They are a team full of big contracts and have no farm system at all. They are just in a tough spot as a team. Who knows, maybe they bounce back with their guys being healthy this year, but they are strapped financially and don’t have any talent to swing a trade.
Yeah they need the reset button desperately for that farm, and that reset button would come in the form of trading the guys that have value on that team, Simmons, Calhoun, Richards, Trout, Escobar. With that division the shape it is in I don’t see them bouncing back for at least a few years. I think for them to get the value for Trout in return a third or fourth or even fifth team would need to be brought in to come together on a massive trade with angels shipping out all those guys I mentioned and even more.
I honestly think it would take turner/giollito/Robles/Ross/Lopez & Espinoza for trout…and you could make a great argument that it could benefit both teams….I know its a ton of prospects but the odds of the 4 other than turner all becoming above avg is tiny if 2 were that would be great. The nats have the money to make such a move and could win right now and be setv up for when Harper most likely leaves…for the Angels those players plus the payroll flexibility to get a c / lf makes them in complete rebuild mode with a future and a young stud in turner. its a win win in my books
Any trade that involves Trout means it destroys another team. It would not and doesn’t make sense to trade for Trout. It sounds great in theory but it’s not just Turner and prospects going back back it’s three legit MLB products and all those prospects. Espinosa has no value in a Trout trade. Unless the Angeles get that they can’t trade Trout not only due to ticket sales but you still don’t have enough to supplant the system. Plus it’s not like they can go splurging on the intl market anymore. You don’t trade the best player in the game under contract for 4 years because you just can’t enough value back. So if the trade doesn’t makes you squirm and say hell no it’s not good enough. The Angels they have to ask for Turner, Rendon, Ross, Giolito, Robles, Lopez, Severino. They probably get laughed off the phone but then again there’s no reason to trade him for at least two years.
Thank you for some sanity. Dear lord give it up Trout isn’t being traded.
Ross and Robles for Cutch.
Ross in the rotation makes them a better team than with Cutch in CF.
Robles should be ready for when it’s time to trade Marte or Polanco.
If the Pirates would accept that deal the Nats should jump all over it. They’ll still have enough prospects to trade for Sale, and they won’t miss Ross, even if they have to include Giolito for Sale.
Was Rotation –
Scherzer
Sale
Strasburg
Gonzalez
Roark
Still have Lopez
Pirates –
Harrison – 2B
Bell – RF
Polanco – LF
Kang – 3B
Marte – CF
Cervelli – CF
Freese/Jaso – 1B
Mercer – SS
Rotation
Cole
Taillon
Ross
Kuhl
Glasnow/Hutchinson/Brault/Williams
I’d also like to see the Bucs swap Harrison for Shelby Miller if Arz will go for it. Maybe include a smaller prospect or a reliever like Jared Hughes to also go to the D’Backs.
Pirates are in a good position to retool, not rebuild. Adam Frazier and Alen Hanson could split the second base duties until one of them runs away with the job. Frazier has the tools and patience to be a good leadoff hitter.
Can’t imagine Arizona taking that deal. Young controllable pitcher, albeit coming off a terrible year, for a guy on a two year decline owed a good amount of money for his declining production for several more years. Doesn’t make much sense
they pretty much HAVE to keep Harrison. They really don’t have anyone to take his place. Frazier isn’t very good defensively at 2nd an Hanson hasn’t shown he can h it at the MLB level.
On top of that, Kang’s arrest and repeated legal trouble make him a wild card,
I know what I’m about to lay out will never happen, mainly because Nutting is a cheap bastard. But here’s my dream plan–keep Cutch. Sign Nova and Melancon both to 4yr deals averaging about 14 million a season. Trade Watson and his 5.9 million projection to clear some money–target a couple fringe prospects.
Fill out the rest of the bullpen and bench with guys making about league minimum, instead of paying 2-3 relievers $3-4 million apiece. Go for it all in 2017-2018, banking on a rebound from Cutch. If it doesn’t work out, so be it, at least you tried. Also you could likely still dump the pitchers 2 yrs in and get a decent return based simply on amount of club control and what by that point will be reasonable salaries.
How far fetched is it that 3 team trade could happen between the Pirates, Nats, and Rays. With the Pirates getting Archer, Nats getting Cutch, and the Rays getting Robles and Glasnow with other pieces involved, but those names being the headline.
that’s an awful idea for the Pirates. why would they move Cutch AND Glasnow just to get Archer as a main piece? those other pieces coming their way would have to be spectacular.
I know Cutch had a down year but Archer had an even worse year, if Archer was headed to the Pirates for Cutch AND Glasnow the Rays would have to say bye to one of if not both Snell and Honeywell
Glasnow is a possible cheap number 1, no way he gets moved!
Is it just me or does the whole trade seem unnecessary? Cutch can’t play center anymore, so it doesn’t help the team really. Just seems like they would be better off keeping the prospects and signing someone like Carlos Gomez and seeing what you get. If he flops then readdress but I just don’t see trading good prospects for a guy in the decline who can’t play the position you need him too
Sale is coming to the Braves and it’s not gonna take nearly as much as ppl on here think it is. My prediction is Mallex Smith, Sean Newcomb, Max Fried, AJ Minter & Dustin Peterson.
I think these winter meetings are going to be a fire sale for the White Sox and with the talent they get back its gonna be a fast rebuild.
You don’t consider that a lot from the braves?
I am a braves fan Steeler, but did you notice what you are proposing? Do you know of any team that is happy 2-3 years after they have committed a big contract to one player, the majority are not. You are going to give 5 players for 1. I have been saying this from the beginning, why have we suffered for two years to build our farm up to give our future for one player, one who may get hurt, one who may regress, but for sure leave in three years because you know the braves will not be the highest bidder
I want to be clear I don’t want Sale. But just from everything out there it just tells me we are going hard for Sale and yes I am saying that because Albies an Swanson will be off the board I feel it is gonna take a little more quality to get him. But the problem is with all these prospects we have there are no ACE level pitchers that are nearly ready (1-2 yrs away) I would like Newcomb and Fried to develop into the spots held by Dickey and Colon and hopefully Wisler or Blair can develop into Garcia’s spot. And Folty can become an Ace level SP. lotta hope in that scenario
That’s a good crop of players but I think the bidding will surpass that. My gut tells me Sale will not be a Brave.
You think the White Sox would take Mallex Smith (a borderline 4th OF), Sean Newcomb (#3 Braves spec, #46 overall), Max Freid (#11 Braves spec), AJ Minter (#18 Braves spec)
For Chris Sale? So they get 1 good piece in Newcomb, a borderline MLB OF in Smith, a decent piece in Freid and 2 borderline prospects for a top 5 SP with an insane contract? Are you high?
I don’t think the Braves have the pieces to get Sale, you need a young controllable player and the Braves don’t one. Someone like Turner, Betts, or Urias is what they’re looking for, but I don’t see that happening right now.
yeah I do but Albies or Swanson as a centerpiece of the trade I don’t think is happening so it’s gonna take a little bit of quantity to entice the White Sox. I also believe more than Sale will be coming back as well. Maybe a bullpen arm or a mid level prospect. In all honesty I don’t want it to happen at all. I would be happy with a Mallex, Newcomb & Ruiz deal for Quintana. But everything I read is saying the Braves are pushing hard for Sale. But for me Albies and Swanson are off limits. I am not too keen on moving Minter either. But wouldn’t let him stop us from getting Sale. I hope they don’t make a move for either at all.
Let me ask this anybody think Folty, Mallex & Newcomb would get a Sale deal done ?????
Not even close.
I wouldn’t do it and I am a braves fan
Just stop, if the Braves aren’t trading Swanson or Albies then the deal isn’t happening.
We will see next week like I said I don’t want him but it seems like when Coppy/Hart want a guy bad enough they get him.
You don’t want a top 5 SP in baseball? Now I get it. Haha
Here’s the thing about a Cutch trade….the possibility of him being in decline is IRRELEVANT and here is why:
If a team thinks that they are trading for the April-August 2016 of Cutch is NOT trading for Cutch.
The only way a team makes a deal for him is if they think they are getting something close to the MVP version of him or else they are not making the deal.
So, the price has to reflect that.
Problem is you don’t know if you are getting the good Cutch or the bed Cutch, so you aren’t going to blindly pay a premium for an uncertainty. Pittsburgh wants them to pay premium and Washington wants to pay like he played last year. Hence the impasse. No one does a trade saying we will pay the cost it gets to get the best even if we aren’t sure that is what we are getting.
finally! someone with some sense!
Ross, Gover and another top 30 organisational prospect at minimum For cutch.
The pirates have two major needs… Rotation now and pen help beyond ’17. Ross and Glover would fill both
I do find it pretty cute that nats fans are calling Cutch washed up because his BA was about average for one season. when the Nats carried Werth, Harper and Zimmerman 🙂
agree. while this isn’t my favorite offer i’ve seen for Cutch, it’s probably the most realistic. i think the Pirates have to be targeting either Joe Ross or Victor Robles at a minimum for the “marquee” piece from the Nationals in order for a Cutch trade to work in their favor.
if i had to pick a marquee piece from the Nationals from the Pirates’ perspective, i’d personally go with Joe Ross seeing as how they NEED MLB pitching immediately. Robles is still a few years away at least.
The Pirates need to get Ross AND Robles.
If they have to add to the deal a bit (Nick Kingham, maybe) to get them, so be it.
But only getting one isn’t enough.
You read it here first . If the Nats can somehow pry McCutchen from the delirious GM of the Pirates, for a package of prospects, start printing tickets in Washington for 2017 World Series. Anyone old enough to remember when the Orioles traded Milt Pappas and a some prospects for the supposedly “washed up” Frank Robinson? Many parallels can be drawn from that trade. The 2016 season is an outlier for McCutchen with the lousy coaching decisions to adjust his “play insanely shallow ” defense and his exceptionally strong hitting at the end of his 2016 season (after getting some genuine rest), he is still one of the best players in MLB. Yet, his salary for the next two seasons is considerably below that of a former National League MVP. I am hoping that Cutch stays in Pittsburgh, despite a GM hellbent on cutting payroll.
Nats will never win it all with the roster they have, team chemistry is terrible. They do not mesh together, with the talent they have there should have already been at least two World Series. Yaw could get trout and yaw still wouldn’t win it. Nats will win division this year and probably next also but that’s far as you go
Nats problem is they trot out Zimmerman and Werth each year expecting them to be stars and they only have a good year once every 3 or so.
And Strasburg gets hurt a lot.
Agreed
Cutchs season has been on a decline for a few years. All he brings is offense and that has been declining. The rest of his game is below average. He has always been a poor defender with a horrible arm
Trade him now before he has another sub Cutch season. Hopefully bucco brass are working on a great deal. in the past they would of gotten a bag of balls and some crackerjack, but this time, hopefully, they can get actual talent. if I’m a nats fan, who wouldn’t want to see McCutchen and Harper in that lineup?
The Nationals need to make some kind of big move. That team has been a failure.
Anyone know why some comments, that are well thought out, not offensive, and have no vulgarity might not be approved on this site? Just curious if that’s happened to anyone else. Have any of your comments been moderated in a way that seems strange.
I went on a rather emotional rant the other night about the possible Cutch trade and that was approved immediately.
Today, I wrote a thoughtful response to someone’s reply and it ceases to exist.
At the end of the day, whatever, but im curious about the protocol.
I come on here a lot but almost never comment on an article. This is one of the few. I’d hardly waste my time on this platform with self-expression if I felt it would just be deleted for no good reason. Any clarity on that? Jeff?
Robles would surely be a tough player to give up. I am sure the Nationals are finding other ways to make it work without giving him up. I wonder if they are trying to get a 3rd team to make it work. However, one thing I have learned is that RIzzo does not make bad trades. So if Robles is in the deal then I will trust Mike RIzzo who has a consistent history of making really good trades. He has more than earned the benefit of the doubt. #InRizzoWeTrust
I’m thinking the trades Cashman made with Chapman and Miller have changed the thinking on big player trades. Players like Sale will be hard to move because of the inflated asking price. This might be holding up the Cutch deal.
I can understand why the Pirates wouldn’t want to trade Cutch within the Central division. But, it looks like to me he would be a much better addition the the Cardinals than Dexter Fowler. And probably a cheaper addition!!!
nah, the Cardinals don’t have what it would take to entice the Pirates into trading one of their best players to a division rival.
not saying this is how MLB GMs operate, but if it were me in charge, it would cost the Cardinals almost double what the Nationals’ best offer for Cutch would be.
McCutchen is done being a star. Still wouldn’t trade him in Division bc of the backlash, but he’ll never produce close to what he did before.
Baseball is messed up. I thought Andrew McCutchen should’ve been MVP in 2012. However, since then, although he’s been a very good player, Andrew McCutchen is very overrated by the media. In 2013, the no name Pittsburgh Pirates pitched exceptionally well and surprised the baseball world. McCutchen was given the credit and awarded NL MVP. I’ve even seen some writers list him as the all-time greatest Pirate CF after just 5 seasons and ahead of Max Carey and Lloyde Waner. Now, the Pirates want to move him.
My point is that although McCutchen may thrive in a better lineup, he’s not an elite player.
its not so much that the pirates want to move them, it is more like we have one of the top OF prospects in baseball and we need to get him in the MLB this year.
Remember the Nate McClouth trade? The front office got beat up quite a bit over it. After a year or so it turned out to be one of the best trades in pirates history, not because of the return and Nate’s falling off… but because Andrew got to play. I think the plan is to do the same thing again with meadows while filling some holes in the rotation and hopefully bullpen.
IMO if they cannot get controllable starter, pen and a prospect or two they should work on extension for cutch while he is a ‘buy low’ he’s still good player and good for the city…. but that won’t happen
bucs want harper, straight up for andrew
what? no they don’t.
One reason why the Nationals might be willing to part with more than many people realize…if they don’t win in the next few years, Mike Rizzo won’t have to worry about Victor Robles because he’ll be out of a job.
One reason why the Pirates might be willing to take less than many people expect….they are the Pirates and Nutting is Nutting. We traded our #2 starter for their #7 starter and the Blue Jays still milked us for two prospects on top of it.
Trade Cutch already to the Dodgers and get Puig, and some prospects
Pirates cant afford puig.
That makes sense