The Nationals, Astros, Red Sox, Rangers and Braves are at the forefront of the Chris Sale market, reports FanRag’s Jon Heyman in his latest notes column. However, an exec with one of those clubs that spoke to Heyman still said he’s not sure that Sale is moved at all due to the exorbitant nature of the White Sox’ asking price. The Nationals, for instance, have been asked for Trea Turner as part of the package but have balked at the idea, Heyman notes, with one Washington source calling the budding star “too valuable” to part with. It’s similarly difficult to envision a player like Alex Bregman or Dansby Swanson being moved for Sale as well. The White Sox do like Dodgers prospect Cody Bellinger, writes Heyman, but L.A. has yet to show a significant inclination to pursue Sale, he adds. (And, from my vantage point, the Dodgers would need to add quite a bit more than Bellinger to a Sale package anyhow.)
A few more highlights…
- The Yankees, Astros and Blue Jays all remain in the mix for Edwin Encarnacion, but Heyman joins others in writing that Twitter reports of a deal between Houston and Encarnacion were premature. The Astros are being aggressive on Encarnacion, according to Heyman, though agent Paul Kinzer told him that there are “a couple” of other teams in the mix beyond this group as well. Perhaps signaling their desire to add an impact bat, the Astros made a legitimate run at Yoenis Cespedes both this offseason and last winter, Heyman adds, noting that last winter’s pursuit flew largely under the radar.
- One general manager who has spoken to the Tigers about a J.D. Martinez trade tells Heyman that he believes Martinez is “all but certain” to be traded. Detroit, Heyman points out, is now the somewhat surprising MLB payroll leader with several Dodgers hitting free agency and with the Yankees trading Brian McCann.
- The Mets would like to add not one but two left-handed relievers to their bullpen, Heyman writes. They’re interested in a reunion with southpaw Jerry Blevins, who spent the past two seasons in the organization, but other reports have indicated that Blevins is likely to receive a multi-year deal that will exceed the Mets’ comfort zone. The Mets might also consider adding catching help, though that’s not characterized as a priority in this report, which also notes that the team considers Michael Conforto to be close to untouchable in trade talks.
- The Yankees have spoken to other teams about third baseman Chase Headley and outfielder Brett Gardner but received minimal interest in that pair. Headley has $26MM in guaranteed money remaining on his deal and quietly rebounded from a disastrous start to post a solid overall season in the Bronx last year, while Gardner is owed a similar $25MM through 2018 and also has a club option for the 2019 season on his deal. Gardner would seem to have more trade value to me, and perhaps teams would show more interest later in the winter once some of the free-agent options in the outfield have come off the board.
- There’s been no formal extension offer made by the Rockies to Carlos Gonzalez, who said last week that the team has expressed interest in an extension. According to Heyman, that could be due to the fact that initial suggestions were deemed “too low” by Gonzalez’s camp to even merit an official offer. CarGo is just one year away from free agency and could be an appealing trade piece for the Rox this summer if the team doesn’t contend in 2017.
jacobsigel1025
I wouldn’t trade anymore than JBJ, Devers, Sam Travis, E-Rod, and a very low level prospect for Sale if I’m Boston
Travis’ Wood
The white sox would immediately hang up the phone to that offer. They’re rebuilding, why would they even want JBJ?
mcase7187
For the same reason they wanted him last yr he’s only 26 with lots of of control left and they could always flip him
And that is way to much for one player even if it is C. Sale I would give a combo of those player like 2 and 3 lower prospects
monk
Because they reportedly asked for him just last year as part of a package for sale…
NocaHoma
It is fairly well known the WSox covet JBJ for some reason….
Bald Vinny
Maybe because the only player on the White Sox who was more valuable than JBJ last year was Eaton.
chitown311
Then if you’re Boston, you’ll have Porcello as your “Ace”. Feeling pretty confident about that?
Nick4747
Actually yes they have talent throughout the rotation and still have price as a 2. Look @ some of their guys year last year like wright and pomeranz not to mention erod who had a great 15 and second half last year once he was fully healthy. If I’m trading for someone it’s wade Davis and signing someone like beltran putting them with arguably the best rotation with the leagues best offense and bullpen. IMO the ace thing is overrated.
comebacktrail28
lol so you got swept last year With Ortiz by an Indians team missing 2/3 starters but hey good luck
goldglover444
They’re deep in rotation arms but I’m not confident any of them truly get the job done next year
Nick4747
Anyone who watches postseason games knows it’s a crapshoot you assemble the best team you can and see what happens. Look @ historically great postseason pitchers and you’ll see blips. Not saying he wouldn’t help tremendously he’d help anyone he’s Chris sale. Also not saying the others are hofers but I’d think there’s other ways to build up the team like build a crazy pen. And if it gets to crazy like hurting other areas on the team like benintendi and bradley I wouldn’t do it or our top 5 prospects again no. I feel they’re a young team that can win for years to come why hurt those chances?
hojostache
Arguably the best rotation….? Not even close. In the top 10…sure. If they added Sale they would be in the conversation for a top 3 rotation.
Nick4747
I was arguing top to bottom 1-5 in the al. I didn’t put the in the al and should have. Realistically it’s them Toronto and Cleveland 1 2 or 3 it’s arguable. Again sale helps out but definitely I’d say best in baseball @ that point but he’s not needed. As a side note I didn’t include Detroit because of their back end Texas same thing Seattle same thing.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
Yeah by a hot Indians club that steamrolled everyone but the Cubs.
yankeesfan681202
Andrew Miller and Chapman are relievers and both netted each team’s number 1 prospect and more, Sale has more control than Chapman and Miller so if you’re not giving up 1-3 prospects from your top 5 you’re simply not getting Sale, you’re going to have to overpay to get him since he’s cheap, he’s controllable, and he’s as good as they get and the White Sox have all the leverage.
ThePriceWasRight
huh? sale price and Porcello. I’d be comfortable with that.
Nick4747
Just going to ask if there’s ever been a pitcher in recent memory who was great and then lost a little bit on his fastball had a few lousy seasons and then turned it around? Oh wait there was Verlander. As much as we can call prices contract a burden we can’t say he’s washed up yet. Even as bad as the year he had by his standards the year he had was better than most it’s not that hard to see him lower his era by half a run? If that’s the case he’d have 3.49 era in the band boxes of the al east all while leading mlb in innings and a Ton of strikeouts. I know the postseason part sucks but he’s far from washed up. Not the same pitcher? Most definitely but everyone has to adapt as they get older.
Rob L. 2
It’s “paid.” The word is paid. There is no such word as “payed.” Ugh.
Berger
Chitown 311 Um…do you watch much baseball? I’m pretty sure Porcello just won the CY Young and had some fairly impressive stats. Just saying…
Steven P.
Porcello has a career 3.94 FIP. The chances that he regresses to his career average this season are very real. His career ERA is 4.20…again high chance that he regresses towards the mean.
I think he is a quality pitcher, but he has nowhere near the track record to think he will contend for the cy young year in year out like Sale will
therealryan
They still also have David Price who had a FIP and xFIP right there with Sale this past season and has had similar numbers the past 3-5 years.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
No one expects him to contend for the Cy Young every year. But regression to the tune of a 4 era? Bah. He has been trending in the other direction with the exception of his first year in Boston. Next year should be very comparable to last for Porcello… w/o 22 wins maybe.
chisox56
The one thing I can say that makes me happy about the White Sox is how they are handling this. King’s Ransom or bust, you really want Sale? Pony up.. The financial control for a pitcher of that caliber for 3 years is a steal. I’d rather they keep him if they don’t get what they want, I’m tired of hearing people saying the White Sox are stupid for doing what they’re doing. I can definitely see someone biting.
NocaHoma
They have yet to reach the winter meetings…I think sooner or later they will have to accept the “best offer” or sit on him….sitting on him does nothing for their rebuild efforts….IMO they will take the best offer sooner or later….I just hope it aint the Braves….
hojostache
100% agree. CWS could get a kings ransom, which will help their rebuild speed up, similar to ATL’s Shelby Miller trade. I’d greatly prefer he stay out of WAS and BOS. I see TEX being a legit threat to land him, which would make them quite formidable.
AstrosWS20
True. It is smart. There’s no reason the White Sox have to trade him now. They can trade him at the deadline or next offseason and get a similar package. They’ll get a haul whenever they deal him, if they even do. Wait until you get what you want. As an Astros fan who’d like the White Sox to fold like a lawn chair to a subpar or even equal exchange with the Astros, there’s no chance they do it. They rightly should wait for a lopsided deal that could cripple the other team’s minor league system.
NocaHoma
I honestly dont know why the Astros would make Bregman off limits you have Correa which already beat him out at SS…You guys have what 3 top 100 OF and 3 top 100 SP’s in your top 10…..Moran and Davis knocking on the MLB door for 3rd base….seems from the list of “front line” prospects he would be the most available….
TheMichigan
Bregman was never given a shot at shortstop because of Correa.
It’s not like it was a competition, even tho Bregman is a better defensive shortstop than third baseman
NocaHoma
Internally someone decided to leave Correa at SS and move Bregman whether it was a “competition” or not doesnt matter….the decision makers determined Correa was the SS of the future leaves Bregman to shift to some other position….
TheMichigan
Not at all. It’s because Correa got up first and put up ROY numbers and “serviceable” defense.
Correa has committed 27 errors with a .974 field percentage, negative UZR to boot.
It’s because of his numbers.
Bregman has put up only 28 errors in in around 1000 less innings than Correa, and has around the same range factor and a better UZR than Correa.
So it’s offense not defense, if the astros wanted a better shortstop would go with Bregman.
NocaHoma
semantics does not change anything….Correa is at SS and Bregman is not….making Bregman available for trade if the Astros desired….
Steven P.
If I am Houston, I strongly consider giving up whatever it takes to land Sale. He is a piece that dramatically improves your pitching staff for the next three seasons at least. Prospects are prospects, as long as the mlb roster is not too damaged what are you really missing?
“A deal that would net the Astros Chris Sale would likely have to include a combination of Astros prospects in addition to Alex Bregman. A package including Alex Bregman, Kyle Tucker, Forrest Whitley, David Paulino, Daz Cameron and Franklin Perez or Riley Ferrell would probably work for both sides.”
This was suggested as a potential deal and starts to get close to a framework that might work for each side. Houston keeps Francis Martes and AJ Reed for the mlb roster and gives up only Bregman and prospects.
Fans will stop whining about the poor farm when they get to watch Chris Sale take the mound every 5 days
ratchetpoobis
to be fair, tim anderson would block bregman if dealt to the sox. he was insanely impressive this past season and may be the most overlooked rookie from last year. he’d likely end up at 3rd base there (and frazier to DH, barring a trade.) it almost seems like fate for bregman to end up at the hot corner
Whyamihere
that’s way too much for Sale. add Eaton and you have a better conversation with that package. I know Sale is great, but you’ve got one budding superstar, two top 50s, and two borderline top 100s (Cameron was borderline last year, but isn’t this year thanks in part to injury), 3 if you choose Perez over Farre). That’s ridiculous, even for Sale.
JT19
There are other factors that might go into Bregman at 3B and Correa at SS. One could include that they project Bregman being better at 3B than Correa could be so why bother moving Correa. Another could be that since Correa had already estalbished himself, it’d be easier to move Bregman to 3B than to have Correa play SS this past season and then move him to 3B (and hoping he plays well there). And finally, they might feel that trying to shift Correa to 3B might mess with his offense, so instead of Correa slumping because he’s trying to learn/adjust to a new position, keep him at SS and just let Bregman, who was basically fresh and probably open to shifting positions, move to 3B.
gorav114
I’m with you. At this stage why accept anything lower then a top package. Sale is top 5 pitcher in the league with multiple years left. They should look to even consider three way deals, anything that nets them 2 top ten prospects in all of baseball plus a major league ready player. I’m an Os fan and am realistic knowing they don’t have the prospect talent even close to getting Sale.
Mikel Grady
Free agency pitching is brutal this year. Sox should call all teams including the Cubs and ask for their best offer. Sit back and enjoy. If dodgers hear Giants are close to getting or Red Sox hear Yankees are close to trading for there will be a deal done. He would be perfect fit for Cubs.
JT19
He’s a perfect fit with any team, but I don’t imagine the White Sox trading him across town unless the price was exorbitant. It would be a price where the initial consensus would be that the Cubs gave up a lot. So Soler plus others probably wouldn’t be “the best offer”, it’d probably start with Schwarber and work down from there.
Cardinals17
With Adam Wainwright getting older, wouldn’t it seem logical that the Cardinals would look at adding a younger proven Ace like Sale to insure an even more solid rotation, not for just this year, but also for years to come in the future.
teufelshunde4
Cards have a current Ace Martinez and future Ace in Reyes.. Sale aint gonna happen nor shuld it.
batman
I would love to see a 3-team deal between the Pirates-Nats-Whtie Sox. Does a framework (obviously there would be *a lot* more involved) of
Nats:Cutch
Pirates: Sale
White Sox :Glasnow and Robles/Giolito
At least get everyone on the phone?
hojostache
I don’t see WAS moving Gioloto or Robles for a declining Cutch, but maybe he’ll turn it around. Too much of his value is tied to him being a CF. Incidentally, he graded out as the worst defensive CF in baseball last year…which is worrisome.
NocaHoma
No Nats wont do Robles and Giolito for Cutch….looking more like Robels and Lopez is what the Pirates have been linked to asking for….I dont think that is even close Robles plus a mid level SP prospect probably more realistic
batman
Sorry the / meant or. That wasnt clear enough, my bad. But yeah as a Pirates fan Im curious to see what Cutch’s value ends up being if he indeed does get moved soon.
Whyamihere
he’s not anywhere close to as valuable as Sale. he has less control and is coming off a bad year.
mdbaseball05
I think that falls through. If Giolito or Robles are involved, I think the Nats would want Sale instead for that, thereby eliminating the Pirates from the offer. They need Sale more in my mind than they do Cutch (their OF as it stands could be Werth, Turner, and Harper). They could just bring back Desmond or sign Fowler to get an equal guaranteed production to Cutch. Yes, Cutch has the upside, but they don’t need to risk it in my mind.
twohole
Cardinals don’t have the goods. Reyes is untouchable and there’s nothing elite beyond him.
chitown311
If Sale isn’t traded before ST, he’ll stay with the Sox and then be traded at trade deadline. .500 teams and teams within 6-7 games of WC(which is half of all teams now) will become desperate and cave in, and give the Sox why they’re asking for. Look at what Billy Beane traded for 3 months of Jeff Smardizja
NocaHoma
problem is…If none of the teams that have the front line prospect talent that Wsox want for sale need a SP or have already been all but eliminated then you are stuck taking the best you can get from the limited offers you have….IMO they are much better off opening the auction block at the winter meetings….and see who is really willing to let them back up the “truck: to the farm system and gut it…..
Whyamihere
to be fair, it was for a year and 3 months of Shark and he also got Hammel. I think the WS want a young major leaguer as part of the package, so a deadline deal seems less likely than an off season one, as teams typically don’t trade Bregman or Turner types during the season (not that I think either guy will get moved)
unitedmets
Trade proposal for each team for sale
Dodgers: Chris Sale And David Robertson
White Sox: Cody Bellinger, Jose De Leon, Willie Calhoun, Jordan Sheffield, Alex Wood, and Austin Barnes
Astros: Chris Sale and David Robertson
White Sox: Francis Marte, A.J Reed, David Paulino, Ken Giles, Garrett Stubbs and Preston Tucker
Ranger: Chris Sale and David Robertson
White Sox: Joey Gallo, Nomar Mazara, Profar,
Yohander Mendez and Martin Perez
Red Sox get: Chris Sale
White Sox: Andrew Benindendi, Michael Copech, Blake Swihart, Rafael Devers, and Trey Ball
Braves: Chris Sale, Todd Frazier, and David Robertson
White Sox: Aaron Blair, Ozzie Albies, Sean Newcomb, Kolby Allard, Dustin Peterson, Mallex Smith, Kevin Maitan, and Rio Ruiz
NocaHoma
you must be a white sox’s fan
braveschop20
I actually always like when the opposing team fanbase proposes the prospects. It’s always too much but that’s better than not enough. However I’m taking Albies, Peterson, and Maitan out of this trade proposal. Leaves-
White Sox: Aaron Blair, Sean Newcomb, Kolby Allard, Mallex Smith, and Rio Ruiz
Braves: Sale, Frazier, and Robertson.
If the White Sox need more they can keep Frazier and Robertson.
teufelshunde4
Heck there is a section of Cards fans that legit think Mo can land Sale without Reyes going other way lmao… its nuts
RunDMC
This is hilarious. I thought it was a run-on sentence – we’re not trading almost our entire farm system for 3 guys. If I were CHW, I wouldn’t even package them together – you’d get more for them separately.
Steven P.
That Braves proposal is nuts haha. I’d laugh if Atlanta offered a deal like that
Darth Paul
No way Blair, Newcombe, Allard, and Smith get Sale, Frazier and Robertson. That barely gets Sale, because Chicago will want an elite prospect. I’m a Yankees fan, btw
Steven P.
Blair had over a 7.00 ERA this year, and somehow that means he can be a major piece in a deal for an ace?!
White Sox reject that offer and hang up the phone.
Allard has had injury problems
Smith is an interesting final piece in a 5-6 player deal, but not a major piece
braveschop20
I’m not really suggesting they do, but the Braves shouldn’t be heavily involved in trying to pry him away. Most of the talent in their system has an eta of 2019-2020 which is when Sale goes out the door. The Braves don’t really need Frazier or Robertson and shouldn’t trade away huge pieces of the future for him.
For all the talk yesterday about what a crazy package they gave up for Jamie Garcia, the Braves haven’t traded one of their top 10 PITCHING prospects yet this offseason. They should continue that trend and fold if the price gets much higher than what I suggested,
JT19
Look, if the Braves don’t want to part with Albies or Maitan (also assuming Swanson is untouchable), then that’s their right. Just don’t expect a deal for Sale. Quantity can usually trump quality in a deal for another star player. But when you’re talking a young ace with control under team friendly terms, you’re going to have to give up a high floor/high ceiling prospect. For the same reason last year that all the Braves fans here were asking for Shelby Miller-esque hauls for Julio Teheran, Chris Sale is going to demand a haul that is headlined by a high floor/high ceiling prospect. In the White Sox’s case, it doesn’t make sense for them to pass on one of a team’s top tier prospects (quality) for a bunch of prospects with not nearly as much upside as the one that is being deemed untouchable (quantity).
braveschop20
I was never really suggesting that was enough to actually get Sale, I’ve said multiple times that if the Braves are trying to get him they’re jumping their timeline forward a bit unnecessarily. You don’t trade away all your top prospects unless that’s the one move you need to make to win a World Series, which means the Braves shouldn’t be making that move. If the price gets much higher than this for the Braves they should walk away and stick to what they’re doing now.
gorav114
How about this proposal? MLBTR trades you to Bleacher Report for a commenter to be named later
NocaHoma
bahahahaha you win!!!
devo3366
As an Astro’s fan I would actually consider that. Reservations about dealing Giles and Stubbs but the rest, I would put in that package.
Steven P.
Can’t see the White Sox taking a deal with Martes as the centerpiece, I don’t think he is a good enough prospect to headline that trade. Reed has value, but it has taken a significant hit with his awful 2016 stretch at the mlb level batting .164 in 48 games. Paulino projects as a reliver, Stubbs and P Tucker are throw ins
Whyamihere
Who says Paulino projects as a reliever? 6’7″ with three potential plus pitches seems like a starter to me.
madmanTX
I counter for the Rangers: Sale to Texas for Josh Hamilton and a dozen Boomstick hot dogs (some assembly may be required–for Hamilton, not the hot dogs)
atlbraves2010
im sorry but i really did not feel like reading your whole post, but i will say that i think the braves may consider maitan to be the most untouchable player in their minor league system at the moment. there is simply no way they trade him, after giving him the largest international bonus they have ever given out, before he even takes the field in the US and they see what he might actually be.
i think the braves realistic, max ceiling offer for sale would be something along the lines of Folty, Ozzie Albies, Mallex Smith, and another pitcher along the lines of Lucas Sims. I am not sure if thats enough, and i am honestly not sure if i would be willing to give that much up at this particular point in time.
nis350ztt
Braves fan here, here’s the deal, talk with your people and get back to me:
Braves: Sale
White Sox: Ozzie Albies (2B), Mallex Smith (CF), Newcomb, Blair (RHP), and Wisler (RHP).
atlbraves2010
the thing with offering up blair and wisler, they are “spare parts” for us right now…im not sure the white sox would see them as anything more…i dont think that gets it done
nis350ztt
Wisler has shown some potential, the jury is still out on Blair. The big pieces here are Albies, Smith and Newcomb. It would hurt to lose these but not as bad as losing Dansby and/or Ender and/or two top minor-level pitching prospects. It solves the White Sox issues up the middle, gives them a bunch of new young guys that are probably MLB ready (or shortly anyway) and can actually contribute to the present and the future.
Whyamihere
Smith is not a big piece. what is his ceiling, Jarrod Dyson?
nis350ztt
Out of Albies and Newcomb, no he isnt the biggest piece of those. But out of Blair and Wisler I’d say Smith is a bigger piece.
He hasn’t had a decent chance in the Majors yet due to the Braves crowded outfield and then a fractured thumb cost him 4 months. He had great stats at AAA, he’s very fast (2nd fastest in Braves system) which translated into a lot of stolen bases. He had just gotten to where he could lay down a bunt and beat the throw to first at the Major level before he fractured his thumb. He has the potential to be a lead off or #2 hitter. It gives the Sox a young good fast cheap center fielder.
As a Braves fan, I don’t want to give up Mallex but realistically the Braves just won’t have room for him in the next 2 years and Dustin Peterson will be ready within that time also. (He hits for power but he isn’t as fast, and I don’t think he’s a CF) Plus Mallex plays center and Ender plays center, Ender isn’t going anywhere.
braveschop20
Add in Allard, take out Wisler. Not a fan of having Albies in there…. I think there’s another piece you can add to keep his name out of it
atlbraves2010
i dont think there is any way a deal gets done without albies unless you want to add in somone from the everyday lineup. without albies, i think it would require either Inciarte or Swanson….
braveschop20
Well then I guess it’s Albies though at that point the price gets too high for me. The next wave of prospects won’t be here until 2019-2020 which means Sale will be out the door before they get here.
Swanson isn’t going anywhere, other fan bases can propose trades and ask for him but the franchise has put a lot into making him a face of the franchise already. Just go to the team shop for confirmation where Freeman’s jersey is 120 bucks and Swanson’s is 280. Too important moving into the new park for them to move for anyone.
Steven P.
Blair was awful in 2016 with an ERA over 7
Thinking he is a trade piece that adds any real value at this point is wishful thinking
Any offer that does not include Albies or Swasnon is nuts. Even Albies is a questionable centerpiece for a top 5 mlb pitcher.
nis350ztt
Blair may have potential, his issue is fastball placement. Braves sent him down to AAA for a while and when he came back he had a very good outing. So it may be something he can work through.
Agreed it would take Albies, Braves won’t give up Swanson. He’s a franchise piece, hometown boy, etc.
As a Braves fan I would hate to trade Albies but with Jace Peterson and Sean Rodriguez we wouldn’t be in terrible shape.
nis350ztt
Also have to consider run support when you look at any of the Braves pitchers who pitched in the Majors in 2016, especially up until July/August. Teheran had one of the worst run support vs ERA of any pitcher in history. That same lack of run support can seriously affect young pitcher’s performance like Folty, Wisler and Blair, and I believe it did.
Nick4747
Your deal with the red Sox offers questions didn’t Chicago ask about jbj @ the deadline so wouldn’t it make sense that they’d want him involved now? So u feel their deal will involve no jbj and not their top prospect ? Sale is taking away a teams #1 prospect no matter what so this is more of a proposal from their standpoint
Boston gets sale melky
Chicago gets jbj moncada owens and another lower level prospect not named devers, groome, kopech maybe 2
Steven P.
Keep JBJ,
Moncada or Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, E Rodriguez, Dubon is a package that gets close I think
Owens value is way down in my opinion. He is far from being considered a top prospect and is a throw in at this point
Nick4747
I know people on here will argue bradleys value. I preferred parting with him with our present team having benintendi and I’m guessing Chicago does as they asked for him @ deadline would hopefully allow us to keep our young pitching and one of moncada or devers while being enough to get a deal done from Chicagos point of view.
Dubon I think could be a piece. And Owens yes is a throw in I know he doesn’t have huge value was more of a body to put in a rebuilding teams rotation.
Steven P.
White Sox would likely need a package that looks something like:
Moncada or Benintendi as a centerpiece, Devers is a must as a second piece, plus 2 high quality prospects and possibly one more lower level prospect
The current price is a “Shelby Miller deal return, plus 1-2 more pieces”
Which equates to: (1) mlb quality regular, (1) elite prospect, (1) additional top prospect, plus 1 or two more lower level prospects with considerable upside. I would imagine you could substitute the quality mlb player for a top/elite prospect
Nick4747
I have jbj with way more value than just a quality major leaguer. Using the Shelby miller deal as a comp it’s pretty much more than that deal given up jbj had a 772 ops away from fenway were ender has never had that as a total and they’re both great defensively. Swansby and moncada I have as equivalent @ the time. The one or two prospects are the debate how much? It essentially needs to equate to Blair. Again in my proposal if you match Blair you’ve outdone the miller deal because of jbj.
Priggs89
The Shelby Miller deal shouldn’t be a comp, it should be a baseline. Shelby Miller was at best a #2 starter, more realistically a really good #3. Not even close to what Chris Sale brings to the table.
In my opinion, a trade from the Red Sox would look something like:
-JBJ
-One of Moncada/Benintendi (most likely Moncada so Red Sox can use Benintendi to replace JBJ)
-One of Kopech/Groome/ERod (most likely not ERod unless the WSox really like him)
-Plus another interesting lower level prospect or 2 (not in the top 20 or so)
The White Sox add a lot of young talent, but not a ridiculous amount. The Red Sox give up a lot of young potential, but they add one of the best pitchers in baseball and still have Benintendi to replace JBJ in the OF, they still have one of their best young hitters in Devers, and they still have at least 1 of their best pitching prospects. Anything short of a deal like that, I wouldn’t do it from the White Sox perspective. Heck, make one of those backend prospects somebody around #10ish or Swihart, and they’d probably add Robertson as well.
Nick4747
Agree with u up until that last point I’m very down on robertson and definitely would not trade one of our 3 catchers with all of which we’ve talked about. You essentially like my trade just upgrade from a lesser type to kopech groome or erod. I think that sounds about right. I’ve said in previous discussions this is going to get uncomfortable for a team and that sounds pretty uncomfortable. I honestly could see a trade that makes that one seem light. He’s the best pitcher available and a top pitcher in the game when not to many even decent pitchers are available.
Priggs89
I would love a trade that makes that one seem light, but I just don’t see it happening. Despite his actual value being high enough to land a monster haul, teams are just so reluctant to give up prospects these days. Personally, I think it’d be worth it for a team like the Red Sox, Astros, or Nats that could pull it off without significantly subtracting from the big league roster, but I doubt it happens. The White Sox have NO reason to sell him for less than they believe he’s worth.
And no, before anyone says it, I’m not saying JBJ isn’t a significant piece on Boston’s big league roster. If a deal like the one I think should happen actually does, they’ll be able to hang onto Benintendi to replace him next year, so it’s not THAT big of a subtraction (assuming Benintendi is as good as I think he is). Otherwise, I’m sure the White Sox would happily take Benintendi instead of JBJ if Boston doesn’t want to touch the big league roster, but I don’t see that happening.
Also, just take out Robertson then. I just read about him being a potential target for Boston so figured I’d throw him in. Personally, I think it sounds like you’re a little too down on him, but that’s your call.
Nick4747
Yeah I don’t blame organizations because of the cost control aspect having a cheap superstar is great and one of the best parts of sale is a team like Boston can get him and still pay the rest of that rotation. Either way I feel he gets traded for a ton the nationals window with Harper is running out and the Dodgers need cost control and still stay in it. And those are just to name a few teams to many teams so much interest it’s going to cripple a teams system it’s the reason as a sox fan I wouldn’t be upset about not getting him. I wouldn’t mind robertson I just wouldn’t give tremendous value and swihart @ some point might be our starting catcher this season to me that’s too much for the red sox anyways.
hojostache
Miller was a HUUUUUGE overpay for a #3 guy with #2 upside if everything breaks right…,and I mean everything. There is no way that is a baseline for any half-competent GM.
Nick4747
Definitely think for a similar pitcher no way. For a better pitcher (sale)could happen and could be.
ratchetpoobis
have the braves toss us mauricio cabrera in that deal and let him, nate jones, and burdi make every game a 6 inning game
mdbaseball05
I like how you don’t even mention the Nationals, despite the fact that they could easily be one of the favorites to land him. First, by the competition alone for him some of those packages are not going to be enough. Your teams best prospect is going to have to be included. For the Dodgers, that’s likely Urias. For the Astros, that likely includes Bregman. If a team like the Nationals comes in and offers Giolito and Robles or the Red Sox offer Moncada, they aren’t going to care about that Dodgers package.
I think the Nationals need to offer Giolito, Robles, and a couple of other pitchers to get it done, and I totally think they should.
Kevin 23
Sale/Abreu to the Red Sox for JBJ/Moncada,/Devers/ Dubon,/Swihart,/ERod/Travis
Nick4747
My thought is swihart might have no value in that deal based on last year. Also Chicago might get more by dealing them separately.
giants51
Another arm would be nice….. but don’t lose our future talent to get him….
comebacktrail28
I understand when Fans don’t want to trade established players like Betts….. Turner……and so on but it gets a little crazy when ppl start saying he’s are 5th best prospect can’t include him
I remember when the Sox traded for Freddy Garcia and everyone was like but they gave up Jeremy Reed he’s going to be Micky Mantle
Or when the Sox wouldn’t include Josh Fields to get Cabrera …… And then everyone said well Detroit gave to much in Andrew Miller and Maybin lol ………… They’re Prospects
DanMizer
So Conforto is untouchable but they platoon him/sit him against lefties?!? Interesting
hojostache
It’s about potential. The Mets have him for 5 more years. In his rookie year he mashed, so his regression last year was concerning…but it was only a year. I think he is…23?
DanMizer
If people think you can land Sale – a top 5-10 ace with a reasonable salary without giving up a top prospect -they got rocks in their head
Steven P.
Most of these fan proposals are laughable. They amount to “We’ll offer you two good prospects and a bunk of filler for a cost controlled left handed ace in his prime”
While the Sox price might come down slightly from “EXORBITANT” to “KING’S RANSOM”, fans forget that the Sox have to actually agree to a trade in order for it to happen. Trading Sale is a franchise altering move, one that cannot happen unless the return is immense…far more than most fans are suggesting.
Fans always overvalue their own prospects and view them as if they all will reach lofty ceilings that scouting reports suggest. Most never even scratch the major league, let alone perform well at that level
From the White Sox perspective, if you don’t get a massive haul for him then you don’t trade him…simple as that
nis350ztt
But don’t act as if the Sox don’t need to move him. They need to go into rebuild mode, but likely won’t. Short of that, trading Sale would net them what they need. And they do need it. And they will do it before Sale’s a FA.
braveschop20
Also consider that you don’t give up a “King’s Ransom” unless you feel this is the one move you need to make to win a World Series. Players come and go but flags hang forever is the only thing you can say if you’re going to trade your franchises top 10 prospects for Chris Sale. Now how many teams are in that position? You hope you find a D’backs situation like last year when they thought Shelby Miller was the missing piece but if it isn’t there what do you do? Waste the last few years of his contract fighting to tread water in the division?
cyclone24
If i was the mets I would trade Harvey D’ARNAUD Gnoa and Robles and Reynolds for Sale Frazier and Robertson what do u think of that
cyclone24
Even throw in Rafael Montero
cyclone24
Also throw in Flores
cyclone24
Put Duda in and mets get Abreu
cyclone24
Lol
JT19
Duda does not equal Abreu. Duda plus another prospect (Lugo, Gsellman, Smith) and that might get you Abreu.
Nick4747
If I’m the mets I wouldn’t trade harvey teams really aren’t going to give him huge value based off of his injury last I heard about him he was still feeling numbness in his fingers. Also had a terrible year it’s just like the A’s trading gray not going to happen unless teams assign his old value.
Steven P.
That is one of the worst trade proposals that I have seen for Chris Sale in a long time
D,Arnaud has been no better than replacement level in four seasons
Harvey has been injury prone
Ynoa and Robles???? Come on hahahaha
hojostache
I’m a Mets fan…and that trade is nuts. Harvey is at rock-bottom value…same for Travis. I think both bounce back this year, but that remains to be seen. As for Ynoa and Robles…pure filler. Robles is fine for a 7th inning guy, but 8th inning would be his ceiling.
nis350ztt
When I saw d’Arnaud’s name I laughed.
bravesfan1998
Braves aren’t gettin him take em off there
Mark 20
I wonder if the Blue jays could put together a package for sale?
Obviously, I think it has to start with Stroman.
Stroman, Vlad Jr, Alford, Reid-Foley and a low level prospect.
I genuinely think thats more than fair and more than I want to even give up for sale.
Baseballholic
Mark, I do not see the Jays going after Sale..
They need a RF’er, and a trade for Bruce would fill that need.
As a reporter said on another site, he supplies more than a third of hr’s being missed by EE, JB, and Saunders. Morales makes up for another third..
Upton would then become a fourth Outf’er, and maybe the powers could use Upton as a rh batter, playing at 1st base, against a lefty, and sit Smoak.. Smoak should get more playing time now that EE seems destined for Elsewhere. (Hopefully, JB also creates a happier destiny with another team)..
If that is not a go, then maybe a package of several of those you mentioned, et al, could garner a Myers-type and a lh reliever?
TradeAcuna
This reminds me of Wren when he kept saying how the Braves are looking to acquire an ace and then he ends up getting mid to low tier pitchers…aka Paul Maholm aka yesterdays Garcia trade.
This Sale push has gone for too long i feel. If they wanted him as badly as media portrays, then they would have made the trade already. I hope they trade for Sale. Trade Newcomb, Wisler, Blair, Folty,..i don’t care. The only guy I don’t want traded is Ozzie but if Sale is the return, then so be it. I remember when Braves fans cried about trading Sims back when for trades. Now he is nothing special just like most Braves prospects.
dewssox79
I cannot believe what Im reading on here.
If the redsox dont want to give up guys for sale they wont get him. the redsox rotation is mediocre. Porcello had a career year, price has too many miles on his arm. gluck winning a playoff game with that rotation
palehose79
I still don’t think Sale, Quintana or Eaton should be traded. The biggest problem the Sox had was Robin and he’s gone now. I say give Renteria till mid season and see how they look. If they’re tanking, then tear it all down. At that point they’ll still get good trade packages for those guys. The team has good talent but lacked solid leadership. The right guy along with a few tweaks and the Sox CAN contend.
dewssox79
the issue is they wont spend. sure the white sox have a solid group of players especially the rotation but they are in need of an impact bat and a catcher…both will cost a ton of money that JR refuses to do.
hisownfool
As a Nationals fan, the idea of trading Turner for Sales is risible. That’s kind of like asking the Dodgers for Corey Seager. Turner is inexpensive and can potentially give the Nats a chance to win every day, whereas even the best starters can only do this every five days.
Now, what I am willing to consider is a deal built around Lucas Giolito (not Giolito plus Robles) plus some other highly regarded pitching prospects like Erick Fedde. That’s a premiere pitching prospect and a very highly-regarded one. Add an Austin Voth to the mix and you potentially have three-fifths of a starting rotation.
Priggs89
The White Sox NEED position prospects, not pitching. Pitching prospects will be secondary in any deal, unless the pitcher coming back is someone like Urias.
JT19
Pitching prospects will not be “secondary in any deal” if they’re being offered a prospect like Giolito. I don’t know the Nats farm system, but Giolito can be the headliner surrounded by other prospects (mainly position players) with high upside. If the White Sox take a hard line stance and say the premier player in the deal must be a top-notch position player, they are extremely limiting their market. Granted, they don’t need to trade Sale unless they get the offer they want, but they’d be doing themselves a disservice by waiting for teams to offer a specific top position player.
Priggs89
I think you need to re-read what I was responding to and then what I said.
The poster before me said – “Now, what I am willing to consider is a deal built around Lucas Giolito (not Giolito plus Robles) plus some other highly regarded pitching prospects like Erick Fedde. That’s a premiere pitching prospect and a very highly-regarded one. Add an Austin Both to the mix and you potentially have three-fifths of a starting rotation.”
And in response I said – “Pitching prospects will be secondary in any deal, unless the pitcher coming back is someone like Urias.”
If the White Sox view Giolito on the same level as Urias, then he absolutely could headline a deal. BUT, like you said, the other prospects coming back will be mainly position players (aka Robles), not 2 other pitchers.
Priggs89
Also, even if they did take a hardline stance and say the premier player in the deal must be a top-notch position player, they really aren’t limiting their market anywhere near as much as you seem to think imo… Pretty much all of the really interested teams (listed teams – I know everyone is interested to some degree) have high end position prospects leading their rankings. The only team I can think of that would be interested but not have the position prospects to pull it off would be the Cardinals… But then again, they have the elite level pitching prospect in Reyes that would fit in that same category with Urias and Giolito (I’d actually prefer him to Giolito).
Nick4747
If I’m Chicago I trade sale to a red sox or Houston and the deal is centered around moncada or bregman (plus hitting prospects mainly) i then trade quintana and robertson to either Washington or la with a deal centered around giolito or Urias (plus mainly pitching prospects). Abreu then gets dealt for the best available deal. Chicago then builds up a system flush with talent @ both pitching and hitting. That coupled with Eaton Anderson get them started nicely on a rebuild.
nis350ztt
I’m a Braves fan, despise the Nats, but if I were the Nats, I wouldn’t even remotely consider trading Turner. He played exceptional.
DodgersBaseball23
I heard someone mention a 3 way trade for Sale and that is a typical Dodger move these days. I could see a team like the Dodgers settling for Frazier for 3B, Houston taking Sale, and both clubs sending prospects to CWS. Dodgers are a club right now that are just not going to be the ones to make the big move that everyone knows they need to make. This coming from a Dodgers fan.
Nick4747
My only question is does the $ situation change things? As they need to compete still maybe a robertson and Frazier to fill needs without getting involved in paying the other guys Jansen malancon chapman or the Turner price.
pickandersen
BREAKING: White Sox, Red Sox putting final touches on deal involving Sale, $ for Benintendi and Moncada.
Nick4747
Why would $ go to the red sox?
hojostache
That’d be highly unlikely…but nuts if true.