While the Athletics aren’t exactly shopping any of Sonny Gray, Stephen Vogt or Sean Doolittle, they’re open-minded to trade scenarios involving the three due to the fact that they recognize the unlikeliness of competing in the next year’s AL West with this current group, writes Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Per Rosenthal, Oakland will look to build around younger arms like Sean Manaea and Jharel Cotton, though he also notes the difficulty that presents itself when entertaining offers on Gray. Trading the 2015 Cy Young candidate when his value is at all-time low is quite problematic, as teams will be looking to buy low on the still-just-27-year-old Gray, while the A’s rightly would place a higher premium on him. Both Gray and Vogt are controllable for three more years via arbitration, while Doolittle is guaranteed a mere $6.95MM over the next two seasons and has two club options at $6MM and $6.5MM beyond that.
Some more trade rumblings from around the league…
- Also via Rosenthal, the Rangers and Rays had extensive talks about Chris Archer, Drew Smyly and Jake Odorizzi prior to the non-waiver trade deadline this summer, and the two sides aren’t expected to renew any of those talks. Texas isn’t as aggressive on Rich Hill as other clubs either, though Rosenthal notes that they’ll still probably find a way add a mid-rotation arm or back-of-the-rotation arm at some point this winter.
- The Diamondbacks are content to hang onto Yasmany Tomas for the time being, Rosenthal reports. The 26-year-old had a huge second half that saw him bat .294/.329/.584 with 18 homers in 258 plate appearances, boosting his season batting line to .272/.313/.508 to go along with 31 homers. However, his highly suspect defense (-16 DRS, -14 UZR), below-average OBP and poor baserunning left him as a replacement-level player in the eyes of both Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference. Rosenthal notes that AL teams may eventually find Tomas more attractive once players like Yoenis Cespedes and Edwin Encarnacion sign, though I’m not sure any team would jump at Tomas’ contract. He’s guaranteed $48.5MM over the next four seasons and has an opt-out clause following the 2018 campaign on his backloaded deal. In other words, if Tomas blossomed into the regular he was projected to be, he could jump ship after just two years and re-enter free agency, but if 2017 mirrors his first two years, an acquiring team would be looking at nearly $50MM for a sub-replacement-level player.
- ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick spoke to a number of general managers at this week’s meetings to discuss the thin market for starting pitching, including Tigers GM Al Avila. Crasnick writes that the Tigers are willing to dangle Justin Verlander in trades — Avila acknowledged as much earlier this week when saying the Tigers were open-minded to virtually any trade scenario — and notes that the GM has already spoken with Verlander, Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez and Ian Kinsler and informed them that they should expect to see their names bandied about in trade rumors this offseason.
- Crasnick also talked to Dodgers GM Farhan Zaidi about the possibility of L.A. swinging a deal for an arm. Zaidi expressed some confidence in the depth that the team has internally before adding, “…but there’s a reason we went out and traded for Rich Hill at the deadline last year. It’s something we’re going to continue to monitor.” Zaidi’s Dodgers are indeed stacked with depth — in addition to Clayton Kershaw they have options in Julio Urias, Kenta Maeda, Scott Kazmir, Brandon McCarthy, Alex Wood, Jose De Leon, Brock Stewart, Hyun-jin Ryu and Ross Stripling — which is why the GM said the team will be “fairly targeted in looking for guys who come with maximum upside to pitch at the front of the rotation.”
- Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets that the Rays left the GM Meetings with a stronger belief than they had upon arrival that they’ll trade one of Archer, Odorizzi or Smyly this winter. He adds that there’s an “outside chance” that Alex Cobb will be dealt as well, although Cobb’s return from Tommy John surgery was delayed in 2016, leaving him with a total of just 22 innings and an 8.59 ERA, so it’d be understandable if Tampa Bay feels that Cobb’s value would increase in 2017.
Doolittle for Soler, come on, no-brainer for both teams! Soler needs everyday ABs and cant get them in Chicago, Doolittle was pretty excellent all year and looks have put his injury woes behind him, oh, and he has closer experience, another Cubs possible need.
Did I mention both players are locked up until 2021? Doo is owed $19.51M and Soler $17.67, so perhaps Oakland throws in the difference in money, but I can’t think of a better fit on any possible trade scenario: the A’s have a gaping hole in RF with nothing close on the farm, Cubs are in win-now and we just saw the rise of superpens, even if Doolittle is your 6th or 7th inning guy, he’s exactly who you want in any bullpen role.
Why would the A’s throw in money when Soler isn’t locked into that contract. In fact he can opt into arb next year. So if he were to have a big year bye bye cheap contract.
First Soler is only controllable through 20. Second Soler is a butcher in the field. I would hate to be an A’s fan and watch Davis and Soler roaming the OF together. Look Soler is a very intriguing player, but no longer a centerpiece. Chances are if that’s the 1:1 proposed trade the A’s laugh. The trade market for competent plus relievers is going to explode. But yes I do believe the Cubs will try to acquire a cl because of the money they will pay to lock up what they have or explore SP next market. So from the A’s standpoint if he plays extremely well then he opts into Arb and because expensive really quickly. They would have lost all but one of his cheap pre arb years.
In reply to your points:
First, “only controllable through 20” – that’s irrelevant. They currently have no one in RF in 2017. The A’s are also under pressure to spend from MLB due MLB investigating their non-spending of rev sharing.
Second, the A’s played all butchers in the field in 2016, they currently have no one in RF, ergo, Soler is a clear upgrade. Davis might get moved to DH full time when the dust clears, so seeing both won’t happen too often.
The A’s are not prioritizing defense currently, that’s why they kept Vogt and didn’t move Semien back to 2B where he’s far less a butcher.
“only controllable through 20”
This is plenty relevant if it’s true and you said 2021. A “my bad” would have sufficed.
my b, my dude 🙂
I wasn’t trying to attack you. So I hope it didn’t seem that way. I just don’t think it makes sense 1:1. It would have to be a heavy package considering this FA market and his cheap salary compared to the average. They also probably want to take a look at Olson as he’s primarily been moved there. So Soler sure, but there are going to be some other major prospects. As we’ve seen the A’s move guys when they want to and don’t value prospects the same way others do.
No worries, I didn’t you were attacking me.
Regarding Olson, I think a year ago the A’s would have expected him to be ready to open 2017 in RF, but he just took such a big step back at the plate and looked awful during his Sept callup, I would hope they have reassessed his trajectory and tacked a couple more years at AAA onto him, which isn’t a big deal at all, he’s still only 23 in 2017, like Nunez. They can keep them both at AAA in 2017 and 2018 and I don’t think their ceilings will be harmed too much, both look like late-bloomers anyway, like Jayson Werth. Tools are there, game just needs polish.
While I disagree that this doesn’t work 1:1, I will agree that is also works in a larger deal, and Oakland and Chicago both have assets/surplus that aid Chicago in the present and Oakland in the future.
Problem being there are a lot of teams with needs in that department and could easily be justified in making that move and willing to give more and better than Soler. Plus A’s have always held both quantity and quality not putting stock in obtaining one player in return.
The A”s haven’t “always done” anything, they are the most all over the place FO in MLB, they change what they value like Beane changes his socks. I honestly don’t know who the “lot of teams with needs” are you mention would target Soler, Baltimore? Angels? They don’t have the farm.
Let’s see here who could use a high leverage reliever? Everybody in the majors raises their hand. The Rockies, Giants, Dodgers, Nationals, possibly Mets, Boston, Texas Houston, Seattle is looking for a lhp to pair with Diaz, Hell wouldn’t even doubt Cleveland seeing as though they have two free agents pen pieces next year.
Oh, I was talking about who could use Soler – looks like an ol fashioned communication breakdown here.
How long someone is controlled is not “irrelevant” especially to a team like the A’s who have no expectations of contending. They’re not trading a controllable power bullpen arm that has set in stone club options for a guy that can opt into arbitration and would immediately cost more than what they’d be paying Doolittle. Soler has proven nothing over the last three years while Doolittle shown he’s a capable bullpen piece. There are plenty of free agent bats that they can sign and place in RF without giving up talent to do so. And while the A’s are not putting a ton of emphasis on defense they need to provide something of value at the plate which Soler has yet to do.
Also, Semien has posted far better numbers defensively as a SS than he has as a 2B, that’s why they never moved him back and Vogt actually graded out as an average/above average C defensively this year, his pitch framing was sub-par though.
Oh there are a lot of teams that would probably want to see Soler playing for them. Look I think the Cubs will add a closer via trade i.e. Doolittle Britton or insert someone else.. it’s just not really foreseeable , especially in this current market, that it doesn’t cost a big package.
Considering the returns that teams got for Miller, Chapman, and Melancon, I think a second prospect would be needed. Doesn’t necessarily need to be a guaranteed star prospect, but someone with a lot of upside. Soler has a good amount of potential, but if that was all the Cubs were offering, it would probably make more sense for the A’s to see if any other team is offering a second or third good prospect.
I was thinking Soler for Gsellman?
This is reasonable, but I probably wouldn’t do it if I were the Mets.
I don’t see Theo trading with the Mets!
Soler really isn’t worth very much. All he’s got going for him is his hype when signed, and a pretty team friendly contract. But honestly, he’s kind of a pre-arb level player getting paid arb salaries. I think the Cubs get a B prospect or two if they trade him.
this is dumb, hype when he signed? he dominated every minor league level, he also was top 5 in exit velocity in all of baseball last year. they adjusted his swing to create more loft for more homers. I’m sure their are plenty of teams who value 4 yrs of control of a potential 130 wrc+ bat.
Which is exactly my point, he simply doesn’t need to be a role player right now, he needs 600 PAs to show us what he looks like. I think he’s a 3-ish fWAR player if he’s everyday – not a superstar but decent enough everyday guy. Sort of like Josh Reddick….
Regardless, Cubs have Almora who fits the role player title to a t, Schwarber-Heyward-Zobrist with Almora is a massive OF, outstanding D from 3 of 4 and potentially huge bats from 3 of 4 – this doesn’t even take into account their built-in injury options like Bryant in LF, Zobrist everywhere and Szczur.
Come to think of it, Tommy La Stella should probably be an everyday player too, Oakland could use him at 2B or LF. I’d love to see Chicago and Oakland get together this offseason.
wow, i didn’t think Soler was worth much at this point, but damn…He isn’t that worthless is he?
That opinion is entirely off-base. Soler is indeed a valuable asset capable of bringing in a solid MLB regular.
He’s not anywhere near as valuable as Cubs fans think, but he’s also not that close to worthless, yet. Potential will only get you so far when the results aren’t showing up (outside of 1 monster playoff series).
Need more than Soler to move Doolittle.
I think Acher is the one to go, he has openly criticized the Rays for their lack of spending and he’s coming off a bad year, with a lot of Ks to his credit. Contenders will be looking at him.
No, you are wrong, Archer was equally as good in 2016 as he was in 2014, but not as good as 2015. Still a good player though. Please always ignore pitcher W-L record and ERA, those are bad data, easily skewed by things that are not of the pitchers fault.
Bad data? Bad official scorer, maybe
“bad data” as in: never being a relevant number to keep in the first place
Before I get scolded for this comment, I am simply just curious as to the perceived value of Jharel Cotton.
Thoughts on a trade of JBJ for Cotton straight up? Pros/cons?
Oh wow, I’d say Oakland does that deal in a nanosecond, no idea if Boston agrees or if they think they can get more for JBJ.
Oakland isn’t hurting for pitching and never really is. If the Mets don’t want Bartolo he will most likely end up in Oakland again, and I’m sure they’re going to go after Hill and Nova too, so I’d say any of their SP are expendable in exchange for an everyday OF.
Well, Oakland says that they are building around Cotton and his numbers in limited innings were really good last year. From what I’ve heard, his changeup is elite and has a good arsenal. It sounded like even if the JBJ for Sale trade happened, JBJ would just be a starting point. This is all not considering contracts, however.
lol guess I was immediately wrong about Bartolo, wow, watch out AL East, Braves are looking verrrry interesting…..
Dickey and Colon don’t make the Braves a contender for anything but 4th place.
Red Sox would not trade JBJ for anything short of a true Ace.
Only for Chris Sale
It’d take a lot more than just JBJ for Sale.
I now!! Bradley Moncada or Devers plus Korpect and Marrero or Hernandes
Archer too, there’s actually a ton of guys JBJ could get. “Sale only” appears to be your own personal preference, which you really should note on posts like these, as you do not work for Boston and have absolutely no clue what they’re going to do, none of us do.
Bradley, Devers, Erod, Swihart should get it done for the Sox. Marrero has little to no trade value at this point and Hernandez is nothing more than a throw in to a deal. If im the Red Sox im holding on to Kopech
I think White Sox fans will be real surprised at what they get on top of JBJ if there is a trade. The Red Sox aren’t trading JBJ,Moncada and Kopech for him and I am sure that White Sox fans say it will take more than that if the White Sox stick to those guns Sale will open with them which is fine. If a trade does go down it won’t be for as much as White Sox fans are hoping for if JBJ goes in the deal.
I highly doubt that Tampa will trade Archer to Boston short of a complete overpay
How did the topic of the Braves and Chris Archer get on my thread?
I love this Someone mentions Cotton for JBJ …… Boston fans counter Sox might get JBJ a few throw ins for Sale ….. You know that guy signed on a team friendly deal who has been dominating in AL on a pathetic white sox team
If you read my original comment, you might have seen that I was expressing that I wasn’t saying it would happen. I was simply getting some conversation going to see what people think of Cotton. Either way, White Sox would want a lot more than “throw ins” with JBJ for Sale or else it isn’t worth giving up their ace, especially when unlike other teams they already have a good CF.
JBJ is a 3 war player I am quite sure that Cotton is a good player I’m just saying that the Red Sox are not trading their center fielder for anyone except a bonafide Ace that puts them over the top. I never said that Sale wouldn’t command more than just JBJ but if you want him in that package you get maybe Moncada and a lesser piece that’s how it works if the White Sox want JBJ, Moncada, Kopech and Erod it’s not gonna happen period nothing against Sale but that’s just a fact. I just don’t see the Red Sox getting that desperate and yes Sale is on a team friendly contract but JBJ isn’t even eligible for arbitration yet and a quality player if the White Sox want to be blown away then they will be waiting a long time now the Stewart is no longer around.
I would rather have Andrew Benintendi if I was the A’s more years of control. JBJ is not the hitter he was the first half. In a big stadium like Oakland his power numbers would be cut in half. His swing is built for Fenway.
Every team in baseball would rather Benintendi over JBJ. No way Boston trades Nintendo unless its for a Sale-level guy.
Yeah Bradley is a good player but he is playing in a band box in a stacked lineup.
McCutchen and one of the Pirates non-Glasnow or Taillon pitching prospects for Archer?
McCutchen for Sonny Gray straight up! 🙂
So a team who won’t be contending anytime soon (OAK) is going to give up Gray in a “win now” trade for McCutchen?
They did something like that when they traded CarGo who was controlled for 5 more seasons for 1 season Matt Holliday don’t put anything past Billy Bean
Two years of McCutchen at $29mm isn’t worth five years of Archer at $39mm and adding one so-so prospect isn’t enough to make up that difference.
Tomas is frustrating to watch on the field, but his bat has progressed well.
I see Chris Archer traded to the Dodgers for Puig and something else.
Even as a Dodgers fan I’d say that something else would have be substantial because Puig only has 2 years left on his contract compared to the outrageously team friendly contract of archer
This is my own pure speculation, I see Puig being packaged with AGon and a boatload of money in any deal. That means in an Archer deal at least one other top tier pitching prospect. Puig’s value is still down. Dodgers would be proactive to open up a spot in the infield at 1B. Possibly for a Frazier, Bautista, Pearce, Longo, or even platoon. Again – dreams and speculations
Well it’s major dreams. Don’t see Gonzo waiving no trade clause unless he’s going to a west coast team that has a chance to win.
Not trying to argue I just want more information. Where do you find contract details? From what I gather AGon does not 10-5 rights. But little about no trade clause. He had a partial no trade clause when traded to LA. But that’s as far as I could get
If Gonzales had a no-trade clause in his contract when he was traded, he still has a no-trade clause in his contract. In any case I don’t see the argument for trading Gonzales unless and until Bellinger is ready for a promotion, and that looks to be at least a year off.
Probably so. I’m not a big Chris Archer fan and I don’t see how he’d give the Dodgers much they don’t already have, but I see the Rays getting a pretty good haul for him if they decided to let him go. Puig and somebody else probably not enough.
Doolittle to the DBacks for Tomas? Other prospects would likely be involved but the DBacks could include some sort of conditional PTBNL if Tomas opts out or cash considerations if he decides to play out the rest of his current contract. Oakland could use the outfield bat and at worst, he’s a DH with some pop. Not a bad trade for either end depending on if any other players would be involved
A’s don’t need a DH or another bad fielding OF. They have plenty of them. The A’s biggest need is a defensive CF. Pollock now you would be talking.
I’d trade Sonny Gray for AJ Pollock in a heartbeat if I were Oakland, maybe even adding in a piece or two.
Time to trade Miguel Cabrera to the Red Sox and Victor back to the Indians. It is the season of rebuilding.
It’s a shame that the Angels don’t have enough to get a guy like Verlander.
Witht the luck they have had acquiring talent the last few years, it would almost seem apporpriate that they actually puill off such a trade, only to have Verlander exercise his full no-trade clause.
I doubt he would turn that trade down. But you never know.
Crazy to think if they had the farm system they could pull off that kind of trade, Maybe if they still had Sean Newcomb, I’m not a gm but maybe Newcomb if they still had him plus Alcantara , Nate Smith , and Crazy to say but Richards for Verlander.
Think of all the fake burgers he and Todd Gurley could eat!
but yeah….would be a great fit
The Dodgers are indeed stacked with depth in the rotation, if you count all of their 4/5 starters options as depth and don’t think about who follows Kershaw and who follows whoever follows Kershaw.
“no-brainer for both teams! Soler needs everyday ABs”
A guy needing everyday at bats isn’t a justification for a team wanting to trade for him or something that would make trading for a guy a no brainer. The fact that he could get at bats with a new team is something that is a positive factor for him, not for either of the teams, and therefor not really part of their calculus. It’s not like the A’s front office is huddling saying “Ok, we gotta swing this deal if we can because we gotta try to get this guy who is on some other team some everyday at bats! His career is stalling over there and only we can revive it!”
It more sounds like you like Soler and think he is good and would like to see him have more of an opportunity, which is all cool, but it doesn’t really effect trade calculus. Or else you are just a Cubs fans and are just stretching as far as possible to justify a trade which looks fairly lopsided in their favor in terms of players’ current value.
“Needing everyday AB” is akin to “being an everyday guy in a situation where he is not an everyday guy”, which is more what I meant, sorry if you got offended by that.
I do like Soler and would like to see what 600 PA from him looks like, he has a nice ceiling but is clearly one of these guys who needs to get regular reps to adjust his game to reach his highest potential, Oakland has no one in RF right now, so he’s a perfect fit.
Fangraphs does not rate Soler as a “butcher” either, FWIW, and his body type/athleticism leads to that he could improve…again with regular reps in a rebuilding team.
If you think its lopsided, then please discuss who you think Doo is worth in a deal, he’s one of the more interesting trade pieces out there IMO.
Ok butcher might be a little strong but we can classify him as below average. The problem is he may be athletic but he’s still really rough. He’s not the greatest route runner. Yes he does have a nice ceiling, but his long swing and defensive inabilities also weakens his floor. Now the question comes what is Doolittle worth well the market is going to be filled with three guys that most people can’t afford. Now i venture to believe the A’s see Doolittle as a closer, a “bullpen” add onto that he’s locked up through the 20 season at a single season salary no larger than 6.5 mill. So in essence he is under control for 4 years at such a cheap price that price is probably going to be through the rough. Especially because he is affordable by essentially every team in or hoping to be in competition. If he’s not in the shadows of Oak he’s probably talked about as an elite reliever.
*Roof.
I agree with your take on Doo, with elite closers being the player de jour at the moment, he probably could bring in more than Soler, like Soler and Happ and a teenage pitcher?
Your take on Soler lists all his weaknesses but all those weaknesses are very easily fixable and common amongst the under 25 with decent MLB experience set. I don’t see him negatively at all, even if he breaks out and costs more in arby, that would mean whoever got him would have a good player, as opposed to Jake Smolinski, who is not one.
Oh I think he could be a good player. The talent is obviously there. Probably relegated to LF but regardless. He is an intriguing option. But my point solely being that a 1:1 is not likely for many reasons.
1) Those weaknesses aren’t “very easily fixable,” otherwise he (and countless other similar players) would’ve already made those fixes.
2) “I don’t see him negatively at all” – There’s the problem. You clearly are biased.
Rays aren’t going to trade archer, either odorizzi cobb or smyly is going to be traded for an outfielder and a bullpen piece
I say Archer goes , he was bad mouthing the owner for not spending!
Either sonny gray or Steven Vogt and Doolittle for a couple of the braves mid level prospects throw in Markakis for the A’s RF problem. Idk just think it would work out for the A’s getting prospects and the braves trying to contend this year. Sonny gray is probably less likely than Vogt because of the braves need for a catcher and the fact that they picked up Dickey and Colon. Doolittle is a solid piece for the pen.
If you were the cubs right now, would you trade prospects for Sonny Gray or another pitcher that is on the trade block, or give jake arrieta an extension?
Vogt for Markakis and money thrown in.
Gray and (Wendle?) for Pollack.
Doolittle for JA Happ and Soler.
A’s sign Travis Wood.