A few notes from the majors’ two East divisions:
- Red Sox center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr., right-hander Clay Buchholz, left-hander Drew Pomeranz, corner infielder Travis Shaw and catcher Blake Swihart could end up on the move this offseason if president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski tries to upgrade the team’s roster through trades, writes Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald. The soon-to-be 27-year-old Bradley is easily the most appealing member of the group, and his name came up in trade talks involving White Sox aces Chris Sale and Jose Quintana over the summer. Another member of the potentially rebuilding White Sox – closer David Robertson – could pique the Red Sox’s interest this offseason, suggests Mastrodonato, who wonders if Chicago would accept Swihart in return.
- The Orioles have consistently made use of the Rule 5 draft in hopes of landing cheap diamonds in the rough, and they’ll once again take advantage of this year’s edition, according to Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com. Among Baltimore’s recent selections are outfielder Joey Rickard (2015), left-hander T.J. McFarland (2012) and infielder Ryan Flaherty (2011). All three are still members of the organization, but major league success has mostly eluded them.
- When the Mets relieved Tim Teufel of his duties as their third base coach and catching instructor on Nov. 16, they gave him the opportunity to stay with the organization in a different capacity. Teufel will do just that, having accepted a role as a minor league instructor and club ambassador, per the Associated Press. The 58-year-old Teuful was a major league infielder from 1983-93 and spent parts of six seasons as a member of the Mets, with whom he won a World Series in 1986, and has also managed a few of their minor league affiliates.
Swihart for 2 years of Robertson straight up? Not sure but sounds enticing
I think Chicago would have to kick in a couple million for that to happen. If Chicago was able to get a boatload of prospects for Abreu, Frazier, Sale, Robertson, and (maybe) Quintana, they would be in great shape. The White Sox have a unique opportunity to clear its payroll almost completely, target player about a year off and tank for a top pick and be right back in contention by 2018. The amount of prospects for Sale alone could fill 2 starting positions and a high upside SP. For instance, Sale to the Rangers could net them Mazara/Odor/Mendez, or something like Urias/Bellinger/Verdugo from the Dodgers. Add in a similar package from Quintana and probably 2 top prospects for abreu and an extra from Frazier, they instantly have the best farm in the game and a bunch of money to supplement the cheap talent
Correct me if I’m wrong but couldn’t anyone have had Robertson for free via waivers ?why would anyone give value for him? I’d prefer keeping swihart for possible dh or just in case catcher.
Robertson was put on trade waivers last august after the trade deadline. These are revocable waivers, meaning that he could be pulled off the waiver list in case a claim came in. The Yankees claimed Robertson and the White sox could not work out a deal and were unwilling to just let him go, so they pulled him back.
Robertson is an ok reliever, and the closing experience is a plus, but he is not worth Swihart.
No, they put him on revocable waivers during the August waiver-trade period. If he was claimed, the sox would just revoke the waivers and hold onto him.
You do understand how trades after the deadline work? Roughly half the roster is…..and Jackie Bradley was….
I think you mean Robertson is not worth Swihart, Swihart is not good at baseball, he’s an injury prone failed prospect.
I did understand that wasn’t sure thought he made it through i was wrong. Either way he’s not that great at this point that you give up on 25 year old catcher whose a former top prospect and hit 274 @ 23.
Jaf injury prone? He’s had one injury the one from last year and it was an ankle injury guys from all sports come back from that all the time. I think it’s a little early to say he’s injury prone.
See my other response further down to one of your comments for a detailed explanation.
Here’s a question for you: what makes you say that Swihart is “failed” or “injury prone”? Because you made both of those labels up. I’d love to know how you’re reaching those conclusions.
Spoken like someone that does not watch very many Red Sox games. Swihart is nowhere near a failed prospect. He has had some injury problems but calling him a failed prospect is incorrect. This year will be a big year for him. I believe he can hit at the big league level. I also believe that he will be able to catch as well he was just the scape goat when the Red Sox staff started so poorly. If the Red Sox offered Swihart for Robertson, which they won’t, the White Sox should be all over that.
Not good at baseball? Hmm
Injured for one season makes one injury prone? Really
Not saying he won’t be good but he hasn’t hit good at any level since 2014
So a single ankle injury changes Swihart from a highly touted prospect to an Injury prone failed prospect who is not good at baseball? I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The second half of 2015 he was a catcher that had an OPS over 800. He was rushed before he was injured in 2016 he was starting to barrel up the ball as well. He will hit and he will be a catcher and as a catcher he will be one of the better ones offensively.
He had one bad year and they tried to change his position so that makes him a failed prospect. That makes total sense. I’m pressured sure the Sox came out a said that he’s honing to go back to catching which he was never that bad at, it’s just Vasquez is a yadi back their but he can’t hit so he won’t be more than a backup. I don’t get why everyone is hating on swihart maybe it’s just ignorance but if you actually know what happend: he got hurt and the Sox tried to convert him to Lf to get his bat in the lineup and vasquez’s defense behind the plate, then he got hurt again and struggled with the transition. It was never a question of his talent he hit in the big leagues so I dont get why everyone was hating on him.
He’s had two bad years in the majors
Really only half a season combined between last year (he missed time due to injury) and like ten games in 2015
Ya I guess I just quickly looked at his bbref page
If that were a possible scenario, the Rangers would be out of their minds to offer a package like that for Sale.
I mean I feel the only one who has not been a success is McFarland, so much talent but he can’t put it together.
Flaherty was and always be a glove first player. I mean he gives decent defense at the expense of a below average bat. I know he hasn’t put up stellar numbers but staying at the premium level of baseball in the world for 5 years (all with the same team mind you) has to be a success for him.
As for Rickard, I feel it is to pass a verdict on him. He’s had what, a half of a year at the plate for sample size, and for a decent stretch of it he put up good numbers with okay defense. I could see him as maybe not an all-star, but a starter in the MLB. Maybe not for the Orioles, but somewhere.
To early to pass a verdict* damn you no edit button
I think flaherty is just a guy who can play a lot of positions but can’t play any of them very good.
Flaherty has always been a good defender for the O’s, just can’t hit at all so he’s never been a starter. And when you look at Davis, schoop, hardy, and machado, you can understand why he never sees extended playing time.
Rickard’s defense is absolutely atrocious, and all the numbers agree.
Eaton, Abreu, Sale, Robertson to the Blue Jays !
Stroman, Foley, Greene, Harris, Zeuch, Tellez, Guerrero, Alford, Ureña, McGuire to the White Sox !!!
Lol this would never happen
That’s a lot of talent going both ways, but I gotta think the Jays are hanging up first on this one.
That destroys the farm, and still probably isn’t enough to get that package.
Heck, why not just trade their entire rosters at that point? The type of trade you proposed never, ever happens.
There’s video games where you might be able to do this, I strongly suggest you find them.
The Mets should invite Timmy to Spring Training and see if he can play third since we all know Wright isn’t coming back.
He’s got to learn how to coach it first…
Why?
I don’t think they are relying on Wright at all. They do have depth at 3B, Reyes was ok there, Flores can play there and Walker came up as a 3B. He should play there some in spring training. Teufel was a very good infield coach and a complete train wreck as a 3B coach.
Totally agree about Teuf.
Bradley isn’t good enough to headline a deal for Sale or Quintana.
Yeah Cuz 5 plus war center fielder’s with 4 plus years of Control grow on trees. He’s a good start just as any team would need 2 guys of that level.
Bradley is kind of garbage at hitting outside of Fenway: .772 OPS in 2016, career .653 OPS on the road. Sale commands an absolute stud who hits away from Fenway, no reason to get rid of Sale for pennies on the dollar, which a Bradley-headlined deal absolutely is.
772 that’s not great? That would only be 7th in bigs among center fielder’s just behind desmond and Herrera s total ops. So even if you completely discount his home numbers he’s the seventh best offensive center fielder’s. Not saying he’d be by himself but him and moncada could definitely be a headliner as anyone acquiring sale would have to surrender 2 studs.
A deal for Sale would look like Bradley, Moncada and Erod. I wouldn’t do that if I was DD but that is probably what the White Sox want. They wanted JBJ at the break and they love Moncada so that deal should get it done.
He ´s one off the best center field!! Production and run saved!!
Any trade for Sale to the Sox starts with Betts.
With his salary, his greater years of control, and the fact that he’s a hitter (making him less of an injury risk), you have that backwards. Any trade for Betts to the Sox starts with Sale. And doesn’t end there.
Have you seen the price for starters and relievers lately it may just be straight up even if Betts is worthy more
Betts is more valuable than Sale straight up. For reference, look at the annual (and well done) Fangraphs.com article on player trade values. Betts came in 7th, and it’s possible his value has slightly improved since then. Sale came in 15th.
That depends though. Is it harder to find a legit ace or a legit superstar bat. I wouldn’t trade betts straight up for sale, but I could see the arguments for why it would be a good trade for Boston.
Personally, I wouldn’t trade Betts. He’s talented, cost-controlled, and plays a key position. But you have to acknowledge that the White Sox are not going to hand Boston Sales plus more to get Betts, no matter what the Fangraphs article says. From a Boston perspective, that probably makes for no deal. And from a White Sox perspective, they can get more from other bidders.
Lol Betts is more valuable then Sale.
Ahh, betts is better, younger, cheaper, and more controllable that Sale. You’re not getting Betts for Sale.
Only way boston moves betts is in a deal for Trout.
So, Yankee fan, what’s the price the Yankees would have to give up for Sale? If Betts is the starting point for the Red Sox, I assume Sanchez is the starting point for the Yankees? If it’s anything less than that, you’re bias is showing.
Except Betts is way more valuable then Sanchez. I’m sure the White Sox would want Sanchez but a lot more than just that. Sale would be straight up with Betts but the Red Sox would not do that trade.
I know that. I’m not a BoSox or Yankee fan, but I’m acknowledging that Betts is not a starting point for Sale. Betts for Sale straight up would be the likely deal (maybe a couple of pieces thrown in here and there, but nothing significant needs to be added), but even then, I don’t see the BoSox trading Betts. What I was trying to do, was to see what the @slider32 would be willing to give up for Sale. Obviously the Yankees would need to add more to Sanchez (and even then, they’d be unlikely to move him), but if he said anything less than Sanchez then his bias for the Yankees would have been obvious.
Since the Red Sox gave up on Swihart as a C, I question whether the Chisox would find enough value in him as an OF, to give up Robertson, even with the salary difference, and added years of control. They already have Avisail Garcia, who is a bad defensive OF, who put up solid minor league numbers, and has more speed than Swihart. He is considered a non-tender candidate. Why trade a quality player for someone who looks to be similar? Catching is all about defense and Swihart does not make the cut, to play full time at that position. Robertson for a backup catcher, or slower version of Garcia, does not seem like enough.
Swihart is too young and too and inexperienced for you to be passing judgment on him….that’s why they have scouts and talent evaluators
Am I doing something wrong to make appear twice?
The white sox threw him on waivers I doubt he has that much value unless they throw in like 15 million.
80% of rosters are put on revocable waivers. nothing to do with value.
It’s been repeated a million times on this site but the Red Sox didn’t give up on Swihart catching. They’ve explicitly expressed that they view him as a catcher. At the time they tried to fill a gaping hole in left field with Swihart because they thought the catcher position was all set with Vasquez. I’m not saying anything about his ability or future, but rather just pointing out something that has been incorrectly referenced so frequently in these comment sections.
Swihart is going to be catcher in 2017, and was only moved to try and fill a short-term LF hole because Boston wanted Vazquez’s glove behind the plate (which now isn’t as much a priority) and Swihart was too good to not be helping the MLB team everyday.
My guess is it would take a lot more than Jackie Bradley, Jr. to pry either Chris Sale OR Jose Quintana away from the White Sox. Not sure why the Red Sox just don’t “bite the bullet” and make a trade for Justin Verlander from the Tigers. He should actually cost less than either Sale or Quintana at least in prospects the Red Sox would have to send.
Does Verlander want to leave Detroit for Boston though? It’s up to him, not what Boston would offer in a deal.
Who knows. Does Verlander want to remain in Detroit while the team is going through flux and rebuilding? There is only one way to find out.
They aren’t going the rebuilding route. They’re just trying to trade some of their shorter term pieces for pieces with more control. Very different from blowing it all up
Call it whatever you want but they have to move salary and the players associated with those salaries. Justin Upton and Jordan Zimmerman have been disaster signings. They are known to be interested in moving J.D. Martinez and some others. It may not technically be called a “blow up” but it most certainly is a rebuild if they move the players that have been in the news/rumor mill.
Nah. Swihart doesn’t get you Robertson, even with the financial considerations. Red Sox fans think the top 30 prospects in MLB all are in their organization…….
Nonetheless, it is a deep system. Swihart and a couple from the 11-20 range should do it. And I agree,
Robertson would be a good “get” for the sox.
Swihart at this point is no more than a 4th outfielder OR backup catcher.
That’s decidedly not true. Find me a scout or GM evaluation that paints that picture and I’ll give you $100.
Open your eyes my friend. He’s not even good enough to be the backup catcher on the Red Sox. He’s probably 5th or 6th on the Red Sox depth chart for the outfield behind: Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Young and Holt. He’s a player without a position. Save your money.
My bet is that Swihart is starting catcher for the Red Sox by mid season. I doubt he gets traded, and not for a RP. Robertson is not elite-level, and does not have a particularly appealing contract. So he might bring a mid-level prospect or two, but not a higher-level prospect or everyday player.
People have mocked Boston fans for seeing good things from their prospects for a good five years now (something ALL casual fans do, by the way, but for some reason only Boston fans are given crap for it), and over that time those players have worked out time and time and time again. How many Boston prospects have to become good players before you’ll admit that maybe they just understood that there was good minor league talent in the system?
Can you believe that non-Boston fans thought it was actually reasonable for the Phillies to ask for Mookie Betts (and others) for Cole Hamels? That was idiotic at the time, for reasons since proven.
So try this on for size: Boston fans don’t want to undervalue the quality young prospects it has, and fans of other teams are biased and don’t like Boston and so constantly underrate the team’s prospects.
That’s somewhat a fair analysis, but I disagree with you on one thing. While prospects have high potential and are cheap, there is also the chance that they can bust. Sure, betts for hamels now doesn’t look good for the sox; however, at the time, regardless of how you present it, there was some uncertainty on how close Betts would come to reaching his potential. There was a risk with him, as with all prospects, that they fail to make adjustments and don’t reach their ceiling. That is why you ask for higher potential prospects when trading an MLB player- there’s more upside, but also more risk.
I view Boston fans as the boy who cried wolf. They say every prospect is the next big thing. This makes it easy to be made fun of if the guy busts or say “I told you so” if he turns out like betts. Of course you’re going to have some successes when you think EVERYONES going to be good.
I feel like that is alot of people there are prospect hoarders everywhere on every team it just seems like it’s all red sox or braves because they seem to be in on every trade. I’m honestly one of them but I feel like I’m a realist and feel only a third of them actually work out let alone become a Betts.
Exactly and I don’t mean to bash all Boston fans by saying that. There’s just some who clearly overvalue the prospects on here
Non-condescending question: why does everyone think Blake Swihart is a good player? He hasn’t done anything to impress me in the games I’ve seen him in, and he’s injury prone at a young age. To me he has almost zero trade value. I really want to know why he’s a “name” in all these posts, can anyone fill me in? Is is the “top 20 prospect” rating from 2 years ago?
Fans have a tendency to overrate their prospects and can’t imagine giving up any of them without getting a quality major-leaguer in return, along with a pay down of his salary. Now, consider the source, and treble that.
The market for closers is bonkers right now, 2 years of Daniel Robertson is bringing back at least 3 of a teams top 12 prospects and/or a good young established player, and that’s even if the team trading for him takes on salary. To say “Swihart for Robertson straight up” is like, what planet are you living on?
Exactly, and there’s the understanding gap on valuation.
no, you are acting of Robertson is elite, giles, miller, Chapman got big hauls because of dominance and team control. look at what melancon cost who has been better than Robertson the last 2 years. just cost another reliever with more team control.
JAF – Robertson is not that good. He’s overpaid on his current deal, and not good enough to close for a contender. No way would he bring that many top prospects, except maybe from a team with a weak system.
Casual and biased non-Boston fans underrate Boston prospects fan more than Boston fans overrate Boston prospects. In recent years, Boston fans have been proven right time and time again, and if casual fans had their way with he prices they claimed Boston prospects were worth the team would be getting universally mocked for dumping terrific young players for peanuts.
The proof is in the results. Your bias has been proven to be wrong. Give it up.
My bias? I made a general comment–which could be applied to any team’s fans, and is amply demonstrated by people who comment on this site, that hometown fans have a very hard time evaluating their own prospects. How many times do we see trade proposals for high-quality players that involve only a team’s cast-offs or lower-rated minor leaguers, because everyone else is too good to trade away? And I agreed with the point that Just Another Fan made, which is that in the trading market, a proven closer is bringing a very high return.
Robertson will likely bring a higher return that Swihart, if traded. I don;t think there’s anything radical or biased in the least about saying that right now.
Good sir, if you’re ignorant of the facts, you shouldn’t go around making strong statements built on your ignorance.
At the ripe age of just 23 (super young for a catcher) Swihart jumped to the Majors prematurely (out of need for Boston) with just 38 AAA games under his belt. After just 14 break-in games that were predictably atrocious, he batted .295/.345/.426 the rest of the season (69 games). AS A 23 YEAR OLD CATCHER.
Swihart has never suffered a major injury before he got hurt playing the OF (for the first time ever) last season. That isn’t “injury prone”.
Boston screwed up royally with Swihart last season, jerking him around to make room for their man-crush Vazquez at catcher. They basically pissed a season away for Swihart, but he’ll likely pick up where he left off.
Also, Swihart went from being basically a 6-8 BB% hitter in 2015 to being a 13-15 BB% hitter in 2016. In one offseason, he overhauled his plate discipline from poor to excellent, which is typically of how rapidly he evolved. Who wouldn’t want that kind of a young hitter?
Swihart has as much promise as any young/not-fully-proven catcher in baseball right now. If you don’t see the value for that, well, you’re either biased or you’re blind. It doesn’t mean he’s destined to succeed (hence “unproven”) but he would be highly in demand…not that Boston is going to get rid of him anyways.
That was an excellent post and completely spot on about Swihart.
He played all of 19 games in the bigs last year… I’d hold off on the “excellent” plate discipline part for now…
Her I don’t know he was rushed to the big leagues and after an adjustment period in 2015 he had an over 800 ops in the second half of the season. In 2016 the Red Sox pitching staff started poorly and he was the scape goat. He was sent back down to AAA to work on his pitch calling. By all measures in 2015 his defense was above average as a catcher. So anyone who thinks he will not be a catcher is just wrong. If he is traded it will be as a catcher I am pretty other teams still value Swihart as a catcher.
Wouldn’t you say it’s a bit premature to declare that “major league success has mostly eluded” Joey Rickard? He’s played a grand total of 85 games in MLB at the ripe old age of 25. Before succumbing to a thumb injury in his first tour of the Majors he slashed a slightly respectable .268/.319/.377. Dontcha wanna let the guy log a thousand ABs before labeling him a failure?
-0.5 bWAR and -0.7 fWAR kind of says he’s bad at baseball. He’s a nightmare defensively, and that slash line is going to hide him.
Sure he could re-do his swing and get good at hitting, like anyone can, but why allow him that leeway if you aren’t going to allow it for say, Oswaldo Arcia?
As much as I’m waiting to see what swihart does this year defensively it’s really not hard to be worth alot as a catcher given the lackluster options that are out there offensively. He’s played in to few of games to say he’s terrible defensively he’s still not 25 if he becomes even an average defensive catcher his first year slash line makes him a great value from an otherwise uninspiring hitting position.
Check your stats. Swihart has been worth 2.5 fWAR in a half season. By fangraphs he has been solid.
check your names, he was talking about rickard.
What would it cost to aquire robertson would swihart or shaw b enough?
Bradley, Pomeranz and Shaw for Sonny Gray and Sean Doolittle seems fair for both sides.
No way is that close Pomeranian isn’t worth much and neither is Shaw for sonny gray which only had one bad year but has been one of the best in the league before this year no way Bradley gets you close for Sonny much less sonny and Doolittle
Depending on your evaluation of jbj and sonny gray if you think he’s last year’s jbj that’s pretty much good enough also what is grays value after such a terrible year? The only one I’m questioning is pomeranz they already gave up on him for a failing first baseman.
You clearly aren’t aware of how valuable Bradley is. Maybe I should declare that there’s no way Gary Sanchez would be worth David Robertson? That would be really wrong too.
Bradley is with more than Gray. Pomeranz and Doolitle are probably about even in value. Then the RS add Shaw. That’s a terrible deal for the redsox. They would need Gray and Doolittle for just JBJ. I’m not even sure if Boston does that either bc gray kinda was awful last year and JBJ was a top 10 ofer
Lol, so the redsox trade a 5 WAR CFer who plays GG defense that has put up wRC+ 120 for two straight years for a pitcher coming off a 5 ERA with less control? Keep dreaming. JBJ is more valuable than gray. The fact that your adding Pomeranz too is absurd
Robertson & Frazier to the Giants for Beede, Strickland, Suarez,Garcia & Williamson.
Sale to Red Sox for Moncada, Devers, Owens, Rodriguez & Swihart.
Quintana to the Dodgers for DeLeon, Puig & Sheffield.
Abreau to the Astros for Bregmann & Feliz
Shields + $$$$ to the Braves for Blair & Weigel
The White Sox are getting wayyyy too much in almost all of those except Shields, but why would the Braves want 3 guys in their rotation who are really old and expensive
I think it’s all to much shields should have as much value as a vending machine @ this point.
Because their future rotation guys are not ready yet and for me Wisler, Blair or Collmeyer are not the answer moving forward. You add Colon, Dickey & Sheilds you would be getting 600 IP and 3 arms that will allow Newcomb, Fried, & Toki the proper time to develop.
I think from the Dodgers aspect it’s very doable. I think it’s honestly too lite though for what the white Soxs should be expecting. Although as a Dodgers fan I’d jump at that in a minute.
What are you talking about? White Sox aren’t getting enough in the Sale or Quintana deals.
That being said, I wish the Astros would give up Bregman for Abreu. The only way he’s moving is if it’s for one of the pitchers, and even then it’s a maybe at best.
That Sale deal for Boston would be ridiculously awful. Rodriguez is set to be at least a #3 SP with easy #2 upside and years of control on his own, before you factor in the crazy high other assets you’ve included. Boston shouldn’t trade for Sale (or Quintana) even at his fair price, but that’s overkill.
Rodriguezs floor isn’t a number 3. His ceiling is top of the rotation but his floor isn’t that high
Boston is a joke. They could have had a legit ace in Hamels but wouldn’t part with Bradley or Swihart, how’s that working for ya now dopes.
Jbj it worked well last year will it continue who knows. And they could’ve had the better pitcher last year with jbj being a huge piece.
Don’t lie, twpguy. Boston wouldn’t part with BETTS or Swihart (plus multiple other high-end prospects) for Hamels. The package that Boston DID offer for Hamels that was mocked (without anyone knowing exactly what was in it) almost certainly DID contain Bradley, but apparently the Phillies weren’t interested. I said a team would be brilliant to trade for Bradley when he was at his lowest value, but heck, Seattle wouldn’t even give up a middle LH RP for him. Oops.
So yeah, don’t call anyone else a dope when it seems to apply to you and your lack of knowledge.
Thank u redsoxu571 for saving me the typing.
Blake Swihart, Henry Owens and a few throw in prospects would have gotten the deal done.
Today, Henry Owens is absolute TRASH, and the Red Sox did everything in their power to eliminate all of Swihart’s trade value.
Yes except they wanted Betts for Hamels think that worked out to be the correct decision.
Bradley is more valuable than Hamels. 5 WAR CF in his 20s is more valuable than a mid 3 ERA starter making 20+million a year
If anybody is going to trade for Chris Sale , I believe it will be the dodgers. And It will start with Urias.. plus others
Could see the Atlanta Braves doing a deal with Boston Red Sox something like: Julio Teheran and Nick Markakis for Jackie Bradley Jr., Henry Owens and Blake Swihart or Christian Vasquez.
Teheran would get lit up in boston
Maybe the Braves should put him on waivers then since hitters hit under .200 against him away from Turner Field.
But putting him in the american league, plus the al east. I don’t think it would go well for him. He’s a good pitcher but he’s not fit for the a.l imo. But as for Sale, I think the dodgers make a move for him
Don’t start all that teheran to boston crap again
The Red Sox aren’t trading JBJ for anything short of an ace in my opinion and Teheran isn’t an ace.
Other than being out there every 5th day I’d argue he’d be an upgrade over anyone in Boston s rotation definitely not price or porcello. I’ll take erod s stuff and that he can be the 2015 erod. Wright looked really good until he pinch ran and even pomeranz after his first few starts looked pretty good.
No one is going to give you a top of the rotation starter for Bradley right now. Not knocking Bradley, but the market values pitching very highly.
I’d agree but they have enough 3 type rotation pitching. I think he’s enough for a top of the rotation potential like aaa ready later this season type or add him with another stud like moncada and get that proven guy like sale. If and big if they trade bradley it’d be for an ace level pitcher.
I would agree Boston has #3’s potentially already, and there’s no need to trade for more. Boston also has Porcello and Price, and while Porcello won’t be as good in 2017, Price should be more consistent. That’s a very good 1/2., or 2/1. I don’t know that Boston needs to do much more. But if they really are looking for a killer arm. Bradley isn’t going to be enough–he can headline, but there would have to be more.
the red sox would have to give up Bradley + Moncada and others for Sale, which i don’t see happening. I think the dodgers will be the team trading for sale.
Alot of these deals are fabricated by the media will dd look for sale? absolutely who wouldn’t? But as he showed last year he’s not getting rid of bradley for nothing. Personally I believe this could be a fairly quite winter. Unless they meet the asking price for sale. Which I’d be fine with they should just get holland Pearce and Bautista (if qo does change). Keep the rest ofv your roster.
I think if you think the Dodgers are trading Urias for anyone at this point you are mistaken. If the Dodgers trade for Sale it will not be Urias moving it will be package built around Deleon which White Sox fans won’t think is enough so most likely there will not be a trade with the Dodgers.
Finally a JBJ post I can agree with 100%. JBJ has surprised me. I really thought he’d be an avg nothing special CF and that his first half year (?) was a fluke. He has proven me wrong thus far.
As for Tehran…lol. People are valuing him as a TOR in part due to his contract, but he is not a #1 guy. He is a #3 guy with #2 upside.
Trust me, MOST people are not valuing him as a TOR pitcher. That’s only Braves fans.
Not that Swihart or Vazquez are super valuable, but I highly, highly doubt Boston trades both of them when the only other catchers are on their roster are Sandy Leon (who had a great two months last season but sucked every other month, can’t hit righties, and has never hit at any point in his career before 2016) and Bryan Holaday (a replacement level player at best they acquired via waivers).
I guess if we put you in charge of making those decisions we just have to miss out on players who develop just a little bit later than others. Jose Bautista, Nelson Cruz, Jayson Werth and David Ortiz were all below average players for their first 700-1000 ABs and figured things out rather nicely after that. That’s not to say that Rickard is on his way towards becoming a perennial all-star, but I think I’ll err on the side of caution with a guy who’s logged less than 300 ABs. Let’s see where he is after another season or two before you pull the plug on him.
Orioles need to go after Jason Hammel and sign Jon jay and Brandon moss, and sign a catcher like Nick Hundley. They should look into trading of Yovani Gallardo and Ubaldo Jimenez to clear some salary space to work with.
I see Hammel as a very good reunion piece with baltimore’s struggling rotation. Singing him could be a big key into boosting rotation numbers this season. He is already familiar with the organization and would compliment Bundy, Gausman, and Tillman very well. Should give him around 3/39.
Jay would be a good fit in center, slide jones to right because of his recently poor defensive metrics. Jay could bat lead off at the top of the lineup and steal some bases. Could give him about 2/12.
As far as moss and hundley go, moss is a key power DH against RHP, like Alvarez game them last season. Hundley is a good replacement and should bridge the gap to sisco. Both should be around 2 years and 10-12 million. Moss could end up taking a one year deal if he doesn’t get a lot of interest with a lot of other DH type players on the market this winter.
JBJ is an incredibly valuable piece. CFers who play GG defense and hit for power and draw walks are very hard to find. He’s coming off a 5 WAR season and since 2015 he’s been a well above average hitter too (120 wRC+). With 4trs of control, he’s probably among the top trade values in baseball.
Boston would only trade him for a top f rotation starter. A baseline of Quintana for JBJ makes sense. Otherwise, they will have no issue keeping a star CFer under contract for a while.
Then Boston should hold him. If the Red Sox value someone that highly, he shouldn’t be traded except for an absolute steal of a deal. RS don’t actually need to trade–they won 93 games last year–not a WS, but no team is guaranteed that going into the season. Let them go with substantially the same roster (ex Ortiz, of course). The problem for them is whether they perceive a need, and if they do, and that need can only be purchased with someone of high value, then they either swap, and pay a price, or hold, and continue to have the need. In truth, virtually no one should be completely off-limits, so long as the values are in place. Other GM’s with good players to sell probably will want the good stuff from the RS–which is their right to ask. They won’t want to hear how half the team is untouchable because they are all future HOFamers. You have to give to get.
Were did I say they didn’t need to give to get? I simply stated that JBJ is an incredibly valuable that id image boston has no interest in trading (who would want to trade a controllable 26 year old star that plays a premium position) unless they were getting incredible value back (a la a Quintana type player).
I didn’t say they could get a Quintana type for pennies, simply that JBJ probably isn’t getting moved unless they were getting that type of pitcher back.
It’s a question of valuation. You think Bradley is worth a top of the rotation guy. I’m not sure he would be valued that way in the trade market. But we aren’t really disagreeing. You don’t want to trade Bradley “unless they were getting incredible value” and I said “steal of a deal”. We have different perspectives (I’m not a Red Sox fan) but basically the same conclusion.
Robertson wasn’t great last year by any means, but his stats are super inflated from a few games that he shouldn’t have even pitched in…
1) He gave up 6 in a game vs Kansas City where the Sox were up 7-1. He shouldn’t have been in their in the first place, and even if Robin was dumb enough to put him in (he was), there was no reason to keep him in that long.
2) He gave up 3 in a game vs Washington where the Sox were already down 7-0. Useless outing.
3) He gave up 4 in a game vs Seattle where Chris Sale had a 1-hitter going through 8 innings with only 100 pitches. Why Robin took Sale out after dominating all game is beyond me.
Those are 3 games that he shouldn’t have pitched in (only 1 of which was a save situation – a stupid one at that) that account for 13 of his 24 earned runs on the year… Like I said, he wasn’t great, but the overall numbers are significantly skewed from a few worthless outings.
Based on what relievers brought in via trades last year, the White Sox would be stupid to give up on him for basically nothing (not saying Swihart is nothing – just saying in general). His contract is nowhere near as bad as people want to make it seem, especially when you look at the contracts being handed out to relievers in recent history (Brett Cecil only making a few mil less per year for example), and he’s still a solid reliever even when you factor in those crap outings – a very good one when you take them out. He’ll have value to someone at the deadline if they don’t move him this offseason.
Everybody has those games like David prices 8 run game against Texas. Everyone gets little up @ some point and go through stretches he’s phenomenal to counter that. His numbers are what they were the year prior essentially except for the strikeout rate continuing to drop (usually an indication a guy is starting to not be as good anymore) he’s a good but hardly an elite closer like a wade Davis or one of the big 3 free agents. if you’re trying to build that next great bullpen like Cleveland or something like that you should look elsewhere but if you’re desperate he’s out there and definitely serviceable.
The difference is that David Price is a starter, David Robertson is not. You can value players any way you like, but for me, I don’t really give a crap if my closer gives up a ton of runs when he shouldn’t be pitching. A starter giving up a ton of runs in an outing is completely different. The closers job isn’t to give you innings in meaningless games; it’s to shut down the opponent when the game is on the line, which Robertson did a lot more than the overall numbers suggest. Even if you want to include the game against Seattle since it was technically a save situation (albeit a horrible call by the clueless manager to put him in), he only gave up 15 runs in 61.1 innings, which is good for a 2.21 ERA. Personally, I find that significantly more important than the overall numbers.
The point is that almost every one gets lit up you can’t discount him getting lit up it speaks to his overall dominance as a pitcher.he’s a good not great pitcher who you’d give a package up but not a huge package for a truly dominant reliever Ala chapman kimbrel (prior to last year) miller or wade Davis this year. He’s a serviceable arm not a great one that you’d think I have a 2016 Indians or 2015 royals.
1) The first thing I said was that Robertson wasn’t great by any means (I actually said it twice). I’m not claiming he is. All I’m saying is his overall stats were very inflated by a few meaningless outings, which they very much were.
2) I never said a team should give up a huge package for him (or really any “package” at all). I said they’d be stupid to give him up for basically nothing – aka a salary dump type move.
3) You’re right, everyone does get lit up at some point. But like I said in my last post, I don’t care if my closer isn’t dominant in games that don’t matter. Again, you can value players however you want. What David Robertson (or any other closer for that matter) did in a game where his team was up 7-1 or down 7-0 doesn’t have any effect on his value to me.
I just thought you were contradicting yourself at the end there based off just throwing out getting lit up. That being said we’re pretty much thinking the same about him. What would a package look like from your angle?
Chris Sale, David Robertson, Zach Putnam to the Red Sox for Bradley Jr., Eduardo Rodriguez, Christian Vazquez, Travis Shaw, Henry Owens and Michael Kopech
Not even enough for Sale alone. It’ll take JBJ, Moncada +
More than enough for Sale alone. Give us a break with this. It’s a silly speculation, but cut the crap. You know better. The White Sox aren’t getting an excellent major league outfielder AND the top prospect in baseball. Come on. No. Just stop.
If Sales bounces back in the first half of the year…yes..they’d get a solid MLB’er and a top prospect. Would they get JBJ + top prospect if he continues w. the same slash line…probably not unless BOS was desperate…which I can’t see happening. I think JBJ regresses some in ’17, but he is still a solid young CF.
Okay, then replace JBJ with Benintendi. You clearly don’t realize how valuable Chris Sale is. Now add in the fact that they don’t have to trade him because he’s on a ridiculous contract that makes him affordable for literally every team in the league. They aren’t moving him (or they’d be stupid to) unless it’s for multiple high end young players/prospects, which is why he probably doesn’t get moved this year.
As a Red Sox fan I think it would take JBJ, Moncada and Erod to get Sale. I wouldn’t do that if I was DD but it does appear that the market for starting pitchers actually pitchers in general is really high. I am quite sure DD will not trade AB at all unless he is absolutely blown away by the offer.
I feel they definitely will move him with how bad the market is with starters. someone will blow them out of the water with an offer for a team that thinks he’s that piece I wouldn’t be shocked @ just about any amount of prospects/young controllable players. The organization that ends up getting him will be hurt badly maybe 3 -4 of the top 5 of an organization with the great farms that we talk about i.e moncada jbj and either a kopech or devers. The price for sale will be astronomical because of the market it’s a simple supply and demand they have the supply. Who else does Tampa?and even then none are this good? After that whose available?
Nick I will be shocked if any team would beat the JBJ, Moncada and Erod in the offseason.They might get an overpay at the trade deadline for a team that thinks he is the difference and they can hold said team for a ransom but I don’t see a massive overpay. Just so I don’t get a bunch of Red Sox fans saying that is a massive overpay I said I would not trade JBJ, Moncada and Erod but since when I say that trade it seems to upset both sides as either too much or not enough then it is probably close to what a trade between the Red Sox and White Sox would look like.
Personally I have erod with more value than either kopech or devers he’s done it for long stretches in the bigs with all the tools in addition. But you never know u hear giolito s name getting bandied about by writers and Urias last year I think it could get huge to a level we haven’t even thought about given the market. The Dodgers for instance could do the trade just demand a Frazier and robertson back with $ of course and give that package that u speak of all while getting under budget. The nationals could decide I only have a 2 year window with Harper coming up on free agency must get him@ all costs. Personally I think the Sox might be the least desperate team you hear about connected to him.
I really hope so but DD has been known to make big trades. I really like the thought of the Red Sox potentiall out field of Betts, Bradley, and AB for the at least the next 4 years.
I have alot of faith in dd he really has given up a ton of prospects but he’s yet to get really burned so even if he does do a trade I trust his track record that the red sox get the better end of it. BTW I agree I want them to only really Sign guys not subtract from what they’ve been building.
Better add some young talent worth something for Sale. Boston will have to give up something with future value. Maybe they can fit the Panda into the deal too.