5:05pm: SB Nation’s Chris Cotillo tweets that right-hander Jordan Walden will have his option declined by the Cards. That’s hardly a surprising development, as Walden pitched just 10 1/3 innings over the life of what is in hindsight an ill-fated two-year, $6.6MM deal signed prior to the 2015 campaign. St. Louis acquired Walden from the Braves alongside Jason Heyward in exchange for Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins back in 2014, but injuries have prevented Walden from taking the hill much at all in the past two seasons. Walden’s option would’ve paid him $5.25MM had it been exercised, but he’ll receive a $250K buyout instead.
11:57am: The Cardinals will exercise left-hander Jaime Garcia’s club option for 2017, reports Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com (Twitter link). Garcia will make $12MM next season.
The injury-prone Garcia tossed 171 1/3 innings this season, easily his most since 2011, but run prevention was a serious problem. On the strength of a bloated home run-to-fly ball ratio (20.2 percent), Garcia put up the worst full-season ERA of his career (4.67). However, he did strike out just under eight batters per nine innings (7.86) while posting a respectable walk rate (2.99) and generating ground balls at a 56.7 percent clip.
Despite his history of injuries and a disappointing 2016, Garcia should draw trade interest if the Cardinals shop him. General manager John Mozeliak already did so during the summer, but Garcia ended up finishing the season in St. Louis. Garcia would certainly be among the most talented starters on the free agent market had the Cardinals bought him out, though, and a $12MM investment could be preferable to teams over signing a flawed free agent for more. The Cardinals could also retain Garcia as depth, of course, as Michael Wacha is a candidate to shift to the bullpen and Lance Lynn missed all of this season because of Tommy John surgery.
As long as he’s either used for depth or trade bait, I like this move. I think he’s lost his spot in the rotation
So does this mean they’re going to use him in a trade? Or are they actually going to be using him next season?
He’s certainly traded this offseason.
12M for a left handed pitcher is a no-brainer no matter what.
Use him, trade him, doesn’t matter. I’d personally vote trade him since Wainright/Martinez/Leake/Lynn/Reyes seems like a pretty solid start (with someone younger filling in for Lynn if he’s not 100% by spring) and Garcia is the odd man out along with Wacha who I think they could package up and get a CF instead.
No matter what?! Every left handed pitcher in baseball is worth 12 million?!
Be careful about trading too many pitchers, could put season in jeapordy before it starts. we need good options to shut down Cubs in short series.
It would be wise to trade Garcia then, if the Cardinals are looking for good options to ‘shut down’ the Cubs. He certainly doesn’t seem to fit that mold.
Ah, I would put Lynn before Leake bud.
Ahh, I see we have one of those nit-picky rotation spot guys.
Whether he’s a 3rd starter or a 4th is such a worthless thing to get picky about.
Overreact to a simple statement much?
I was responding in kind to a rather condescending statement.
Wow really hit a nerve there huh?
Nope, just being condescending in return. Isn’t it fun!
Having him as a lefty option in the bullpen wouldn’t be so bad.
Except that he has control problems sometimes because his pitches are too sick to control.
“Too sick to control.” That’s what they called me in high school.
Lol
Lol I don’t think that’s it my man. He’s got great stuff but that doesn’t excuse poor control
When the ball moves in a direction he can’t predict where it is going I consider that a “sick” pitch. As in -it needs to get better. Nasty and sick. Yadi has even been reported as saying he is the hardest catcher to catch.
I’m just playing on words though.
If they can’t get good value for him in trade talks, he’ll be kept for the depth, or maybe a long man role. Spot starts if no viable/healthy minors pitchers available on that given day. We have too many hurt relievers right now.
Had to do it. Rotation depth, trade bait now, or could still trade him at the deadline barring disaster
This is a no brainer move.
This is also why it was done immediately so trade talks can begin, but the Cards do not have to trade him because with Duke out for the year he could plug in nicely in a relief role, and starting depth is always nice to have.
Good decision. He’s not useless so the Cards are in no dire need to trade him, and the price tag is going to make him an appealing target for anyone looking for rotation depth.
This was quick considering they were back-and-forth on whether they would pick up his option. Personally I think the Cardinals have something in talks of a trade that would involve Jaime Garcia. I’m sure they shopped around and made calls and said hey, we can include this $12 million south paw, do we got a deal? I expect to see a trade involving Jaime and others for a possible centerfielder in the next coming weeks.
I doubt they were back and forth. It was more like fan speculation was back and forth.
Well Mozeliak said they were uncertain if it would be picked up or not at the end of the season. But I pretty much agree that it wasn’t a hard choice.
He really has no place in the rotation. I’m assuming they have a trade lined up.
Wainwright
Martinez
Lynn
Leake
Reyes
Weaver
Wacha
Should all be ahead of him in the rotation. Weaver and Wacha potentially to the pen?
They also have Lyons, Cooney, Bowman, and others as starting options should injuries pop up.
Garcia doesn’t fit a need, but has value on the market.
The Dodgers taught us that you can’t have too many good pitching options. Having only 5 MLB starters on your team seems like a sure-fire way to be put in a bad spot during the season.
Just keep him on hand and see what happens. Most likely, you’ll have pitching injuries anyway.
I still say we need an impact type starter. The front office is relying too much on the declining health of Lynn & Wainwright and on rookie starters. Lynn is not going to be at full strength & Wainwright is not who he used to be which happens to pitchers. We need another PROVEN starter to help anchor this rotation.
Lynn almost came back at the end of the year and hasn’t been an injury risk before that surgery. This is his last year before he’s a FA and I doubt he’s back in StL for 2018. I hope he comes out with a big year so he could be flipped at the trade deadline.
It will be interesting to see what they can get for him in a trade. Unfortunately, other GM’s watch games too and his last several were basically batting practice. Too fragile to be a bullpen arm too. Too expensive for mop up duty. Buh bye, Jaime. We knew ye too well……
I really don’t see them spending 12 mil on a pitcher that’s not a starter or closer. Unless multiple people get hurt in the offseason, he’s as good as traded.
The worry about depth of starters if they move Garcia is a bit crazy. It just happened to unluckily happen last year that all the depth got hurt
Even without Garcia they have
Wacha
Weaver
Lyons
Cooney
Gonzalez
Mayers
Losing the three #5 lefties was a bigger deal than many think
Cardinals can deal 2-3 including Garcia and still be fine
Wacha, at this point, is further away from the rotation than Garcia. While Garcia was mostly good until mid-August (when he completely fell off a cliff) and healthy all season for once, Wacha continued to struggle with his mechanics and health, and his end-of-season stats are just as terrible.
Weaver is still very much a rookie who rose very quickly last season, so they’ll probably want him to have some time in pitching a full season. Assuming Reyes is on the major league rotation, Weaver and Austin Gomber are the only real depth the Cardinals will have in Memphis.
Lyons a bullpen reliever at this point. .He’s an emergency starter at best.
Cooney (shoulder; Bennett lesion) and Gonzalez (Tommy John) are coming off major surgeries. Cooney I wouldn’t be surprised if Gonzalez is done, or at least no where near the guy he used to be–he also lost a big chunk of 2015 to a shoulder injury and hasn’t pitched more than 100 innings since 2014.
Mayers is a fringe prospect, who really has less upside than guys like Lyons and Cooney did.
The Cardinals have a lot of bodies, but nearly all of them come with question marks (Lynn’s back from Tommy John, Wainwright’s coming off a sub-par season and is probably on the downswing of his career, Reyes is still learning control). Depth is good, especially if the Cardinals want to remain competitive.
I agree with basically all of this.
Pitchers get hurt. And recover
A lot of prediction of worst case for everyone. Rarely it works like that.
Lyons has shown very well as a starter when he did it
Cooney too
Marco has had a rough two years but isn’t old
Wacha got worn out but it happens
While I agree new roles may be in line for these guys perhaps they are from done. Being overly optimistic is a potentially wrong being overly pessimistic is just as bad
Weaver is fine for depth.
Garcia is on board too
Mayers is fringe I agree
Gomber is an option too
We aren’t wanting more than 4-5 level depth for these guys. There are plenty options for this
Cardinals can move a few pieces and be more than fine
Throwing out every injured or worn out guy is ignorant and bias to your opinion
A few will falter or change roles but not all
I think you may be glossing over the significance of the injuries to Gonzales, Cooney, and Wacha.
I am not “throwing out every injured or worn out guy.” I’m simply not ignoring that that the majority of pitchers you mentioned as strong depth come with several questions about their health, their durability, and possible performance. THAT’s ignorant. And glossing over the reality of what pitchers and teams have to consider is your own bias.
When Lyons pitched as a starter in the majors, he did so as a depth starter, While he could start, if he’s starting for the Cardinals, then he’ll need to be replaced in the bullpen. He already has a role with the Cardinals, and it’s a role the team reportedly wants him to continue to do (especially with Zack Duke gone for the season). Of course, he’s coming back from a knee injury, and the most recent report is that his recovery is behind.
Wacha did not get worn out; his problems are due to his mechanics—they put horrible stress on his shoulder, which caused his 2014 season to end prematurely, and they’re a ticking timebomb. They’re also difficult mechanics to master, and Wacha was woeful last season. Which is why he was benched (along with Garcia) in September.
Garcia *was* the one worn out. He also had his first fully healthy season in about 5 years—pitching only 150 innings. His shoulder also is a ticking timebomb, dealing with the same issues that eventually ended Chris Carpenter’s career.
Cooney and Gonzalez are good starter prospects…but they both had injuries that can fundamentally change a pitcher, even end his career (like John Gast). You’re not going to know what you’re going to get until Spring Training, so counting on them to take the place of a traded or injured rotation piece is rather foolish.
This is not excellent depth; it’s excellent depth *if* everybody comes back as they were before. And with so many pitchers dealing with so many serious issues, assuming that is the same as assuming that your retirement plan is fine so long as you win the lottery. Hey it could happen, but I wouldn’t count on it.
>>>>>>”We aren’t wanting more than 4-5 level depth for these guys. There are plenty options for this”
And many those options have question marks, which cannot be disregarded or ignored. The rotation currently stands as this: Martinez, Lynn, Wainwright, Leake, Reyes, with Wacha and Garcia on the outside looking in. Then, you have Weaver, Cooney, Gomber, Gonzalez, and Mayers as depth.
If they don’t trade anybody, you’re right, they’ll probably be okay. But that’s not what you said. You said “he worry about depth of starters if they move Garcia is a bit crazy. It just happened to unluckily happen last year that all the depth got hurt” and “Cardinals can deal 2-3 including Garcia and still be fine”.
What happened last year also happened in 2015. Last year was *normal*. Three pitchers had 30 or more starts, and Wacha (who was benched at the end of the season) had 27. They still needed several starts from Weaver and Reyes. In 2015, with Lackey eating more than 200 innings and Lynn, Wacha, and Martinez pitching more than 170 innings each, the Cardinals had to get 39 starts from 5 other pitchers. That included 4 starts from Wainwright, who was lost for the season for another Tommy John. Remember, that was the season they traded Shelby Miller in the off-season, and went into the year with 5 veteran or established young pitchers. They still had to lean heavily on a 23-year-old Carlos Martinez, and get 15 starts from prospect pitchers from Memphis.
In 2014 actually is the worst-case scenario. That year, they had three pitchers with 30-plus starts (Wainwright, Lynn, Miller), but they also needed 9 other pitchers for the other 66 starts. No other pitcher that year had more than 20 starts (that includes combining the traded Joe Kelly and John Lackey, who had 7 and 10 starts each, respectively, in their stints).
So, let’s say they trade Garcia and Weaver (there’s your 2-3 pieces), Wacha continues his downhill slide, Gonzalez goes by way of Gast, and Lyons is locked into the bullpen or is lost for the season due to his knee. That’s not pessimistic; that’s realistic. That means that if the starting rotation stays healthy, the Cardinals should be fine. But hardly any staff in baseball goes through a season without injuries, and the Cardinals already would have one rookie in the rotation with Reyes.
Their depth would be Gomber, Cooney, and Mayers. A rising prospect, a guy coming off shoulder surgery, and a fringe prospect. Only one of whom has pitched in the majors before.
That’s not 4-5 level depth guys. That’s not “plenty of options”. That’s not “more than fine”. Not for a team that wants to contend.
Why would the Cardinals let him walk and get nothing out of him? Instead… Explore trades in this barren market this offseason. Or… Get his value up at the trade deadline. Or… Contend, keep him in the rotation all season if he produces well enough and QO him next year.
Because there isn’t room in the rotation for him to get the innings right now.
The cards have 7 worthy starters right now and that doesn’t include depth pieces. 7 guys that belong in a rotation somewhere.
That’s arguable. The Tsunamy and Wainwright are clearly starters, and Leake’s contract means he will start (plus he’s so durable), but Wacha, Cooney, Gonzales, Mayers, Lynn and Weaver are all questionable based on injury or performance issues. Reyes looks great but is far from established and may not hold up over a full season.
Didn’t STL use to give Garcia extra rest during the year to great effect? Not sure if that was tried, but I remember them basically not changing the rotation at all for the first two-thirds of the season. Garcia is a great cheap acquisition for teams like Miami or the Yankees.
And Walden…I remember how much I hated that trade for STL. Looks like I got one right!