3:22pm: Pittsburgh is “actively shopping” McCutchen and “pursuing specific teams” it believes match up, per Stephen Nesbitt of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. In addition to the Nats and Rangers, the Pirates have spoken with the Mariners about a deal, per the report.
The Bucs “are looking primarily for prospects” in return for their long-time star. In the meantime, the team is also checking in with other teams on possible outfield trade targets, per Nesbitt’s colleague Bill Brink (via Twitter).
1:06pm: Andrew McCutchen’s name has been in the rumor circuit quite a bit this winter, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that “of all the big names available in trade, McCutchen might be the most likely to go.” Similarly, Yahoo’s Jeff Passan reports that the odds of McCutchen returning to the Pirates in 2017 are “dwindling,” adding that the Bucs don’t have an ownership mandate to move McCutchen but nonetheless appear intent on doing so (Twitter links).
Pittsburgh is continuing to explore trade scenarios involving McCutchen, Rosenthal writes, and the Nationals remain interested after being unable to work out a deal to acquire McCutchen this past July. The Rangers, according to Rosenthal’s column, are another potential landing spot. Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News expounds on numerous reasons that the Rangers profile as a poor fit for McCutchen — they’d like better defense in center, can’t part with an MLB asset like Rougned Odor or Nomar Mazara and lack the upper-level pitching talent the Bucs may covet — though the Pirates are also chatting with other clubs, Rosenthal notes.
McCutchen’s 2016 performance fell considerably shy of his sky-high standards on both sides of the ball, as he batted a pedestrian .256/.336/.430 and posted a -28 rating in Defensive Runs Saved and -18.7 in Ultimate Zone Rating. While the Pirates reportedly feel that McCutchen was positioned too shallow in 2016, thus accounting for some of the defensive downturn, Grant points out that both DRS and UZR have been down on the former NL MVP’s glovework for the past three seasons. Complicating matters for the Pirates, Rosenthal continues, is the fact that McCutchen has both publicly and privately expressed that he doesn’t want to move off of his natural position. The 30-year-old told MLB.com’s Adam Berry at season’s end that he “[doesn’t] see [himself] needing to move.”
McCutchen is entering the final guaranteed year of a six-year, $51.5MM contract extension that he signed prior to the 2012 season and is owed a $14MM salary next year. His contract also contains a $14.5MM club option that comes with a reasonable $1MM buyout. From that vantage point, McCutchen is eminently affordable (from a financial perspective) for nearly any team in Major League Baseball. For a player that batted .313/.404/.523 while averaging 25 homers and 19 steals per season from 2013-15, that’s certainly an appealing price tag, even if he’s coming off a down season.
The problem, however, is that it might be difficult to coerce teams into trading top-tier talent in exchange for the right to buy low on a once-MVP-caliber player. If there’s a concern among any interested team that McCutchen’s 2016 season was the beginning of a genuine decline at the plate and they feel he also needs to move to a corner spot, then parting with top-ranked minor league talent is a tall order. And that does seem to be the Pirates’ intent, as Rosenthal reported earlier this month that the Pirates asked the Nationals for outfield prospect Victor Robles — one of the top 25 prospects in all of baseball — in their July talks regarding McCutchen. That’s exactly who Pittsburgh is currently targeting, Rosenthal reports (Twitter links), with the team also seeking additional pieces (possibly including an upper-level pitching prospect) in a package.
If the Pirates do find a trade partner for McCutchen, it’d free them to move Starling Marte to center field, thereby upgrading the team’s defense. That’d create a hole in left field, but the Bucs could of course pursue an affordable stopgap to top prospect Austin Meadows, who could be ready to break into the Majors next summer. There’s no shortage of teams looking for help in the outfield, as the Orioles, Blue Jays, Giants, Dodgers, Phillies and Mariners are among the teams that could theoretically use an upgrade (in addition to the aforementioned Nationals and Rangers). Moving to acquire a player that might not be keen on shifting to a corner spot (where some of those teams would have to play him), though, just adds another layer of complexity in addition to agreeing on a price point for a player on whom the Pirates certainly would like to avoid selling low.
Embarrassing to call myself a Pirates fan….
Because they’re looking to trade their third best outfielder?
At his lowest value. Just doesn’t make sense.
Makes plenty of sense. He is only on contract for the next season. You don’t have a choice. But selling him high will get you nothing. He has to move at the deadline
Makes sense if they believe that McCutchen is on the downside of his career and won’t regain form but further lower his trade value.
He’s got two years.
If they believe he’s on the downside of his career and will only decline further isn’t that a HUGE sign to other teams to stay away? I think their only option is to try and make him look better and flip him at the deadline when someone is desperate.
Wholly depends on what a team wants to see. Jason Castro just got good money from the Twins while Astros seemingly did nothing to keep him. Given that Castro big plus is pitch framing and the fact that the Astros employ one of the leaders in modern framing metrics shouldn’t other teams have taken that as a HUGE sign to stay away?
Teams have their own proprietary metrics and medical teams/coaching and given that multiple teams can have different takes on the same player.
Im not sure that the Twins over paying someone is a sign he had more of a market than we’d have expected. They sort of march to their own drum in Minn
That’s entirely my point. Teams have individual evaluations on players and one team “giving up” on a player doesn’t mean that another teams staff will view the player the same way as the team “giving up” on the players does.
This comment is why you should be able to upvote. Kudos for using grammar, spelling, and logic all in the same comment! I don’t mean to go on like a teenage girl, it’s just the comment section has gone to crap over the last year or two and I was losing faith. Such a great website here at mlbtr that is even better when the comments are good.
McCutchen’s contract lasts 2 years not one.
Yinzers need to let go of their attachment to certain players and look at the big picture. The Pirates will be a better team without Cutch and what he brings back. He’s not the 2013 MVP anymore.
Trade Cutch and sign Dex Fowler to
Play LF ???
More like trade Cutch and make a 2nd trade for a corner OF with one or two years left on his contract, to bide time for Meadows. Smart strategy.
Cutch has 1 and an option so why not keep him if that’s your strategy?
Could just play Harrison in the OF, they have Kang, Mercer, Freese, and Jaso in the infield already.
It’s a small market move get a good prospect and keep getting cost control by finding a cheaper alternative in terms of either $ or prospects. A center fielder is always harder to find and worth more than a corner outfielder (all things equal) trade down and upgrade prospects.
I feel your pain.
This is just a plain salary dump once again.
This should be interesting to see play out. I know the article says Nationals, but what do you guys think about the Orioles? I can see him there. Not saying it’s a perfect fit or anything. What other teams do you guys think?
Orioles would probably love him but they’ve got nothing to offer in trade except relief pitchers.
Good point
They do have Gausman but idk if they would want to move him given their rotation questions
Sonny Gray for Andrew McCutchen . Get on the horn Beane.
To be honest i could see this happening or maybe something like this, the A’s would seem like a decent fit for McCutchen considering they dont have a CF at the moment.
Right, but I have a feeling the Bucs would want Graveman instead because he’s primarily a sinkerball pitcher.
I doubt they would rather a pitcher with a much lower ceiling in return just because he throws a sinker.
Definitely an A’s move. If he starts to play like a MVP again flip him at the deadline and get themselves a few top prospects
The A’s have a desperate need for an OFer. Although, they’d prefer a lefty, but acquiring an MVP doesn’t come around all too often. Also, if it’s pitching the Pirates want, the A’s are hella loaded with young arms.
So do the blue jays. Cutch for Stroman
Stroman is worth more than Cutch imo, more control..
Your entitled to an opinion
That’s an overpay on Toronto’s end. More pieces would need to be involved
They signed a left handed OF today.
Joyce is going to platoon with smolinski in right
Joyce is a platoon partner…still have room for 2 or 3 new outfielders
Let’s do it!
Why does it matter if he doesnt want to move from CF? If a team needs you at a corner and your getting paid by said team, you move.. Seems simple to me..
I agree
Have you ever heard of this guy named Jeter?
Cutch couldn’t carry Jeter’s jockstrap.
Spoken like a true Yankees fan, or someone who has never seen Jeter play. Not sure which.
McCutchen is not even in Jeter’s league, he’s been overrated since day 1. His defense was always average, his power just above average, he was never an elite baserunner..Above average player but not an MVP aside from an award he didn’t deserve.
Are you talking about McCutchen of Jeter here? Because Jeter was one of the worst defensive shortstops that I’ve ever seen. I mean he had potential in his early years but really come off it.
He wouldn’t move from Shortstop to Thirdbase/the outfield for a better defensive shortstop called Alex Rodriguez, who was forced to thirdbase because “Jeter had to have his way”
I really hate that the precedent with Jeter is that he was a defensive stalwart because of the flip play, the stands dive, and the “Jeter play” he was so immobile and looked so awkward out there.
McCutchen deserved that MVP, he worked for it, put up an amazing season, he stole bases, hit home runs, played above average defense that season.
Jeter may have accomplished more, but he’s not the greatest of all time, hell he isn’t even the greatest yankee of all time.
Yeah, running around at the age of 40 with a broken ankle, he may not have been much of a defender but holy Christ. You can’t possibly think Jeter is one of the worst defenders! He won 5 gold gloves and you think all the plays you mentioned above were flukes? If so he is one lucky dude.
Jeter’s defensive limitations are extreamly over-exaggerated. It’s become a bad cliche. He was very serviceable in the earlier part of his career. I suggest people actually do some research and not just harp on his later career limitations.
Name a shortstop you would rather have in your lineup than jeter in the postseason? He was a HOF player in the regular season but the postseason is the only reason you play the game, everything is for a chance to win a World Series and if a player says different than they are only playing for the fame and money. I’m not sure if there is a more clutch player in postseason history, so if it’s overrated to be the best when it matters the most then you are truly a fool
tell us all about the 27 rings…………….please!!!!
Also defense is more than just your ability, defense is a very mental part of the game. The flip play is practiced every year in spring training and the 1 time in his 20 year career that it was needed, he was there most ss would be standing somewhere around 2nd base. He was so much more than just the ability, many players have had so much more ability than him but he had something that only comes around ever so often
Only a fake Yankee fan would bring up 27 rings as only 5 have anything to do with jeter.I know you are being sarcastic dumba$$. But without jeter maybe they have 24,25 rings
Yeah, that negative dWAR for all but three years of his career says that. Oh wait, it says the exact opposite.
You know gold gloves are a popularity competition loosely based on stats. Right?
Because it keeps falling out of the tweezers…
Jeter may have had a few more gold gloves early in his career if Omar Vizquel had not been in the American League
Jeter is the Hillary Clinton of shortstops…
Ozzie smith
Haha no, Jeter didn’t deserve any of his Gold Gloves with a career 4 range factor and career .978 fielding percentage.
Gold gloves are not decided by fielding statistics or metrics but on overall fielding excellence, almost the exact words on their website. So yes jeter does deserve his awards
Hahaha,Jeter got his gold gloves because managers vote on name value. It’s the reason that gold gloves are the single biggest joke award in MLB. If GG were given out for overall fielding excellence Brendan Ryan would have owned like 4 of them as the best defensive shorstop in MLB during his 09-12 prime years.
You are as mistaken as one can be. A-Rod a better defensive shortstop than Jeter? You must be smoking that good crack. By the time Jeter hit NY he was declining defensively, but then again he had to put the juice down in 2003.
Out of the 6 years Brendan Ryan was eligible for the award he had 1 season where he could have won, just because he made a lot of web-gems doesn’t mean he should have won. He seemed to be able to make the great plays but made a lot of errors on routine plays which his numbers support, very asdrubal Cabrera like whom also never won a GG
And don’t point to Rdrs because that is a direct correlation to his web gems. As an overall shortstop Brendan Ryan was not a “gold glove” caliber defensive player
I agree with describing Jeter defensively as “very serviceable.” Gold gloves are won with the bat, unfortunately. He was an extremely smart player and got the most from his abilities.
Probably has something to do with the fact that moving to LF essentially concedes to his defense regressing, which hurts his value for his next contract too. Going into FA saying you still have the speed and defense to play CF helps a lot. Plus, you have the whole thing with him playing there all of his career, so it’s kind of a pride thing in that way too.
Ian Kinsler did something similar a few years ago when Profar was coming up iirc
so long Cutch! good luck!
Ozuna, Hech, Dietrich, Ramos for Cutch, Taillon, Josh Harrison
Who hangs up first?
Pirates hang up laughing uncontrollably.
Taillon, Marte, Polanco, and Bell are untouchable,
Switch Taillon with Cole then
I should have added Cole. He’s untouchable this year but next offseason I could see him moved
All four of them are worth more than McCutchen! Like, way more.
I agree I bet the Pirates would jump all over Ozuna for Cutch straight up Dietrich, Hech and Ramos would be solid pieces for the Pirates. Marlins would benefit from a vet in the OF, and Cole would be their new ace.
Absolutely no way the Pirates even consider that. Makes no sense to trade their best pitcher when they need SP. Mercer is better than Hech at SS, Harrison is about as good as Dietrich, and Ramos doesn’t move the needle much
Ozuna for Cutch is pretty fair, but I doubt either would do it (Pirates have Meadows on the way, and Marlins can’t really afford Cutch).
Marlins can easily afford Cutch’s 14M
Marlins don’t even have 14 fans yet
I think Cutch would be a great addition to the blue jays although he is a right handed hitter (if im not mistaken, just going off of memory). We are trying to get more balance but signing Fowler, and trading for Cutch would be awesome. Not sure if we have the talent but I imagine a package of Reid-Foley and Greene could get it done? Im down for letting EE and joey bats walk if we can allocate some money in better spots. And then hopefully we can sign Moss to fill the hole at 1st. Cutch, Fowler and Moss instead of EE and joey bats I am perfectly okay with. We would still have a nasty offence, maybe even a better one.
1) Travis 2) Donaldson 3) Tulo 4) Morales 5) McCutchen 6) Fowler 7) Martin 8) Moss 9) Pillar. Now thats scary and very do-able.
Throw in Melvin uptown in the trade
Upton
Fowler Leadoff, Cutch cleanup
Oh no Cutch has to bat third or he’ll throw a hissy fit
A former MVP, an elite player all these years and they still don’t want to give the guy at least half a season to get right because of a down season? My god some teams are cheap…
It has nothing to do with money. Everything to do with generating maximum return and a bet that he’ll only get worse not better.
Here’s the issue if they are even in hollering range mid season for a wild card there is no way they can trade him without losing the locker room. If he continues to digress then you’re getting nothing back. Imagine the outrage if he has another bad season or deals with injuries and that option is declined.
Unfortuently its a what have done for me lately world we live in. Also he is getting to that age where most, not all but most athletes start to slip. Also saying teams are cheap is kind of ridiculous. If you went to the store and there were 2 kinds of a product both do the same thing and have similar skills like Cutch and Marte but one is significantly less expensive than the other most people will buy the less expensive option. Same logic applies here.
It’s also ridiculous on your part to think teams will be lining up prospects for him if you consider his value to be that low.
Ask the Brewers if they liked the package they got for a year and two months remaining of Jonathan Lucroy. Then ask them if they think they still would have gotten that had they traded him in the offseason. Yes, if he keeps declining, his value would be even less. But with a player with such a good track record, you have to take that risk if you want significant return. If we wanna play the if game, what if you deal him away for chump change and he starts raking like Lucroy? Imagine the outrage…
Bad idea to play that “maybe he’ll get better next year” game. Truth is, he’s been declining since ’13. It’s just that that year was so fantastic it’s taken a while to get down into human territory. Then last year he collapsed. I mean, really collapsed.
Right, from a hitting perspective, his 2014 was just as good if not somewhat better than 13. The thing is some of you guys act like you are the only ones that can do things like look up stats or watch footage of him to see the slump. Any team seriously considering him can and will look at that stuff. On top of everything I hear it’s the Pirates that are trying to aggressively shop him, not sitting around taking calls like most smart teams should. So given all that, if you are looking for significant prospects at this point, keep imagining.
Maybe some other comments were deleted but I’m confused by the point you’re trying to make here. You start off by calling teams cheap because they’re not willing to give Cutch another half season to see if his value rises. You then imply that because of his track record, he deserves a good haul but then say “if you are looking for significant prospects at this point, keep imagining”. Not trying to bash you at all, just confused on the point you’re trying to make here.
trade possibilities
Jays: how about Cutch and Watson for JA Happ and Guerrero Jr.?? or Guerrero Jr. and Reid-Foley
Nats: how about Cutch, Watson and Elias Diaz for Giolito and Victor Robles
Yankees: how about Cutch and Watson for Luis Severino and Clint Frazier
Jays wouldn’t deal JA Happ and his 2-26m remaining on his contract for a 30 year old outfielder in decline who is due a big raise on his next contract. how some guys values change in a season
The Yankees would torpedo their youth movement to get Cutch. Bad move. I’m not moving Frazier unless I’m getting more. Cutch isn’t different than Gardner and Ellsbury, we don’t need 3 of those guys, much as I would enjoy him in pinstripes = )
How do you go from JA Happ and Guerrero to Giolito and Robles. An old pitcher and low minors prospect vs 2 top 10 prospects in all of baseball
And that Yankees package? Why would they trade their future center fielder for a declining former star. Did you see the trade deadline?
Was JA Happ not a potential CY Young Award winner last year??? I would think that would be a nice get for the Pirates. irrespective of his age. I’m looking for high upside pitching under control and I think JA Happ is still under contract for 2 more years.. Guerrero Jr. is there #1 prospect dude.
there’s no way were trading Reid-Foley for anyone unless it’s for alot more than 2 years control, we lose 3 starting pitchers to free agency by 2018 and he’s really the only farm hand ready for 2018.
But we’re still trying to win now, who cares about the futre
no way id give up mini Vlad as it is. Dude looks like he is gonna be great.
Or JA Happ. Just filling one hole by making another and really betting on Cutch to remember how to baseball. We seem to have a pretty large array of catchers in the minors. Maybe one of those that didn’t come from Pits in the Liriano trade and a minors pitcher or two. Hard to know which ones because I’m not really sure how highly the Pirates value Cutch at the moment. Maybe Pirates fall for it twice and give the Jays another 2 minor leaguers in exchange for a Drew Hutchinson 2.0 and salary relief? One can dream
I irrationally want the Yankees to acquire Cutch, but I doubt they will.
Soooo…Judge, Mateo and Severino for McCutchen probably won’t be enough, but I don’t think it’s that horrible.
As a Pirates fan, thats enough for me! Where do I sign?
A lot of you seem to be out in left field regarding McCutchen’s value. Judge, Mateo and Severino would be the overpay of the century, up there with the infamous Dbacks-Braves deal. McCutchen was a replacement level player last year (actually, B-R has him below replacement). And he’s been steadily declining since 2013. Right now he’s a league average offensive performer and one of the worst CF defenders in the game. Probably he’s not that bad going forward, but what you’re looking at realistically is a slightly above average outfielder for $14m a year for two years. That’s worth something, but more like one guy you’e heard of (lower half of top 100) plus a couple decent prospects you’ve never heard of. That’s it. As a value proposition, he’s about at Cargo (Rockies version) level.
If NH could pull that trade off he would amke up for that damn liriano trade.
Any one of those should borderline get mccutchen straight up. He isn’t worth all three yet alone 2 of them.
What about the Mets being a trade partner for Cutch? They could have a deal with Conforto and Matz as main pieces. Bucs still contenders, Mets get CF, trade Grandy or Bruce for some arms and get Gsellman back in rotation
Conforto and Matz is wayyyy too much for Cutch.
Not if last year was an aberration…..he’s only 30…maybe not done yet.
You can bet a few bucks on that. Mets aren’t coming anywhere close to betting the franchise on it. MUCH more likely he’s an average player moving forward.
pirates would want more but if im the mets the most i would give is gsellman, ceccini, robles and maybe one more piece. but that being said, i wouldnt trade for him. too many red flags.
I would die to see him in a braves uniform he’d be a lineup changer for the Braves and i would kinda sell the farm but not much depending on if they get Sale.
Pirates get Markakis Rio Ruiz Jace Peterson Ender Inciarte and Toki Tossaint
Braves get McCutchen Josh Harrison and Elias Diaz.
subtract 1 of and add 2 more….
Hmm well considering they would be looking for a prospect package and the fact that is be hesitant to move Inciarte (could be persuaded) but I’d start with a package like Markakis, Austin Riley, Max Fried, Chris Ellis, Lucas Sims. If it was Inciarte they demanded, then him including Rio Ruiz, Chris Ellis, Lucas Sims.
Enders value is very high, he is controllable for at least 4 more seasons (maybe 5, I didn’t check) where as Cutch is a FA in/after 18, Harrison is good until 2020. The issue being (prospect return wise) is that last year Cutch was a neg WAR player (-0.7) and Harrison for the last two seasons was a 1.8 WAR guy, Diaz is still a prospect (at a highly needed position in the Braves farm. This could be a boom or bust trade for Atlanta. Boom: Cutch returns to normal and Harrison slightly improves to a 2-3 WAR guy or Bust: Cutch has turned into a pumpkin and goes to a 0.0-1.0 WAR guy (I doubt this) and Harrison is the guy he has been for the last two seasons (meaning you didn’t net much value in return) but gave up premium specs.
In short I’m very hesitant to move Ender in this deal, but would if it lessened the prospect end of the deal.
I would also consider Markakis, Mallex Smith, Max Fried, Lucas Sims, and a PTBNL type
In all honesty, I”m not sure I do Inciarte for Cutch straight up if I’m the Braves. And that’s not because I think Inciarte is great or anything.
It’s because you think McCutcheon is done.
If Markakis goes back to Pittsburgh there’s going to be a steeper cost. He really has little value and the Pirates would be doing the Braves a favor. I don’t see why every trade proposal includes Markakis unless the Braves fan base really hates him.
Cutch for Mallex, Sims and a top 10-15 pitcher and a PTBNL. Braves would then need to find a trade partner for Markakis. No way Bucs take Markakis (not gonna pay him 11mil).
The problem with McCutchen is his walk percentage is down and his strikeout percentage has been increasing for a few years now. The games that I saw him play last year he seems to be cheating more than in the past. I think he was always a superior hand eye and quick wrist guy and when those types lose that a little they tend to decline quickly. I think teams that want to to trade with the Pirates will want to see that he does not continue to decline in those areas before making an investment in him. It would probably be best to roll the dice and see if he can have a good 1st half and then maybe move him. He comes with red flags at this point.
Strike out only escalated this past year due to a chronic thumb injury.
According to Fangraphs his strikeout percentage has gone up every year since 2013 and last year it was the highest it has been in the Big Leagues. If he had a thumb injury that can definitely cause that percentage to increase but I would still be leary of his increasing strikeout percentage.
From a Giants perspective, the key trade piece would have to be Chris Shaw who’s blocked by Belt. Wouldn’t trade Beede or Arroyo for two years of a declining McCutchen. He’d have to agree to be LF as well, so doubtful that SF would make the trade.
Kendall Graveman for McCutchen
I think a lot of you are seriously underestimating Cutch’s value. From 2012 thru 2015 he was a perennial MVP candidate. For 1 year, he suffered a thumb injury and a lingering knee issue and his numbers dropped. There is no reason to believe that he doesn’t have a bounce back year offensively in 2017. With regards to his defense, he was positioned shallow in 2016 which caused a lot of balls in play over his head.
I mean seriously. Conforto, a LF for the Mets that has never accomplished anything and an oft injured LH pitcher is WAYYYY TOOOO much for Andrew McCutchen??? Your’e a bit delusional.
To the Jays fan who said JA Happ was too much.. Enjoy Jay Bruce and his .220 average with 25 HR without EE and Joey Bats.
McCutchen was an MVP candidate in 13-15, but ’15 was not really earned (about a 5 win player), and he fell through the floor this year. You can’t just erase the most recent year from the back of his card. I mean, losing some value is fine from year to year, but he was BELOW REPLACEMENT according to B-R, and barely above according to FG. And he was always thought of as a guy likely to age poorly, because he was so dependent on quick hands at the plate.
I’m not a Conforto believer, but if you thought that kid was a future above average regular OF, then yes, he’s too much.
He had a thumb injury for the 1st half of the year. From end of July forward his numbers seemed to improve a few ticks.
Nah we’re good. We got Morales
it’s not that Happ is too much its just that its taking from our strongest area where we don’t have a lot of depth. We got pretty lucky last year surviving with pretty much the same rotation the whole year because if an injury happens there it goes bad in a hurry. Besides I can’t see the Pirates taking that trade either because Happ is a bit pricey for them without a heap of control anyway. Happy to give up prospects for Cutch just not Vlad. Probably a bit unreasonable but I must say I got a baseball man crush on the kid and I think he is going to be good. I do think Pirates are hurting themselves in the negotiations by trying so obviously to ship him out though.
As an Os fan I am so envious the Jays have Vlad 2.0. I really know nothing of him directly other than he looks legit. Don’t want to hold him to any kind of comparison but Vlad was one of the few true greats, dude was a swordsman. I love having Yaz’s grandson in the Orioles organization but he’s not even close to the same level at this stage. We also got Palmeiro’s son. He’s got some power and promise but very raw
I said Conforta AND Matz was wayyy to much. Way to leave that part out bud. Matz is the reason it was a bad deal for the mets.
Cutch graded out as the worst CF last year AND had a down year at the plate. He has one year and has lost a step. MVP-level Cutch gets an awesome package, but his 2016 #’s were in line w. Curtis Granderson. Ok to solid, but no smart GM will be okay w paying top $ after that season.
Pirates will have Number 1 farm system after this trade
You’ll be surprised how little they end up getting, especially after publicly announcing they’re hellbent on trading him, and being the aggressor in talks. What they’ll get is a package of guys you’ve never heard of (with one you may have heard of).
Dan Duquette has just such a package ready and waiting!
This is right up his alley. A team calls him and says hey, we got a pretty good player here that we will give you for as little as possible.
Rangers would make a trade if they lose out on Desmond and Gomez. It would cost a lot for Texas to give up.
The only way I can see Seattle trading for him is if the price has gone way down, and he agrees to move to left or right field. I doubt either of those will happen so I don’t see any way the Mariners get him.
I think if the pirates offered Washington Cutch and Watson. They could land giolito and more. Washington then wouldn’t have to spend huge money on a big name closer, and they get Mcutchen, who yes is coming off the worst season of his career but, if he turns it around this year they have a great bat to add to the lineup. Idk where else it totally matches up, where the pirates don’t get undersold or teams don’t get ripped off. Maybe Oakland? Maybe?
I would be surprised if the Nats part with Giolito for anyone but Sale or Archer. He’s the #1 pitching prospect in the game and he showed some signs of why in his cup of coffee last year. I don’t trade him for McCutchen if I’m Rizzo
I agree completely, but the pirates won’t want to sell low especially if it’s for Watson and Cutch. But I do agree with you.
Yeah, I don’t think they are getting Giolito or Robles from the Nats. The Nats would just send those two to Chicago for Sale in that case and stick with Werth, Turner, and Harper in the OF. And, at that point, they could just sign someone like Bautista and use Harper in CF and move Turner to SS until Werth’s contract is up.
My point is, if Giolito or Robles go, it won’t be for Cutch. I think you are overvaluing Cutch at this point. Still good, but he is only a little above replacement level and just had his worst year. Yes, it is one bad year….but it’s his age 30 year, which is usually around the start of decline. Prying someone like Giolito won’t happen.
Agreed 100%. Giolito has a very high ceiling, I wouldnt trade him if I were rizzo either. But we have seen some crazy trades the past year or two. And if it was Watson and Cutch I don’t see the pirates selling low. Don’t think it would be good for Washington to part with him but I feel like anything is possible.
Nats are about the now. If they’re kicking the tires (again) on McCutchen, then they see Tre Turner as a shortstop. With that said:
to the Nationals: McCutchen and C – Elias Diaz
to the Pirates: P Reynaldo Lopez, OF Michael Taylor and SS/2B Danny Espinosa (sal. dump)
he played all year at 29. he didn’t turn 30 until Oct. he played with a thumb injury for half of the year and had a tweaked knee coming out of spring training.. Teams and their fans are doing the best they can to ignore that he was an MVP candidate for 4 years previous and had a down year in 2016 due to injury and are trying to get him in the cheap. I think its probably the smartest move for NH to move him but he shouldn’t be selling low.
Hello Pittsburgh A’s. Never all in. Always holding back. Never any excitement.
“You have to understand……………He’s an ‘old’ thirty”.
– Bill DeWitt, 1966
(Cincinnati Reds owner explaining why he traded Frank Robinson to Baltimore)
Why would the Bucs want to trade Cutch at such a low value, if they mandated it then they are the foolish ones. Teams will not give up top prospects for him right now. The best chance they have is to hope he rebounds and trade him at the deadline. I don’t see him being traded.
Unless they are convinced that he is in decline and won’t rebound then it makes sense to try and trade him now.
If the Nats are truly going all in, they need to make sure they have enough on the farm to land both Sale and Cutch. The time to strike is now, DC!
Would love to see McCutchen in Phillies pinstripes.
Cutch for Vince Velesquez? (sp?)
Phillies hang up. I think they would trade those 2 Double A outfielders who mashed (forget their names) and Jake Thompson.
If the Mariners are truly being targeted, I wonder what it would take. I don’t really like what DiPoto has done recently. I still can’t believe they gave up Walker, Marte and Jackson on top of Smith back last year. I would think it would take a starting combination of Pederson, Gohara, or Drew Jackson with a couple of others. I don’t really like him gutting what we have of the farm.
Though, I think we should have blown it up a couple of years ago and gone into sell mode, so I might be bias.
Alright, I must speak up. As someone familiar with the McCutchen situation, I’m going to lay down some facts. Allow me to state my point right off the bat. Trading McCutchen this offseason makes LITTLE sense. Let me explain…
As amply mentioned, and is accurate, in these here comments–Cutch’s value is at an unexpected low-point. Nobody involved expected this. Also as indicated, the Bucs are likely going to get a disappointing return for him, particularly in the eyes of Bucco fans who adore Andrew as not only the face of the team, but an amazing man and face of the CITY of Pittsburgh. Likewise, Andrew views it the same way. So, one, it will be unpopular; and two, the return will be modest.
So what SHOULD the team do? The answer is actually pretty simple. Hold him until the deadline. Really one of three primary outcomes will take place.
1.) Cutch continues to show he is on the decline. Yes, he has less value because of this, and because of half a season of value gone from the contract situation. However, some of that loss is regained by the supply and demand hustle and bustle of the trade deadline. All in all, the return at the trade deadline should be roughly approaching what the Bucs could get currently. Fewer fans will argue with doing so at this point as well.
2.) Cutch performs pretty well, but the team does not. Easy call. Sell high. Get more at the deadline than you would get now. He wasn’t enough to help the team, and it’s time to divert funds and retool. Again, more fans would be on board with cashing in an asset.
3.) Cutch performs pretty well, AND the team is performing well. This is the ultimate goal, right? Easy call again. Hold onto him through the end of the season, and revisit the question in November.
I’m going to lay it out on the line here. The Bucs should wait until the deadline. Baseball-wise, ultimately, that is the smart thing to do. It’s smart for PR, it’s smart for the 2017 team, and it’s the most probable option for being smart for the future. So, why won’t they do it?
The team will NOT increase payroll, and they have made that pretty clear. After DFAing a couple of people, the team has about $15M in available funds for next year. Ditching Cutch would increase that to $29M. I have many issues with this. First, how can you have one bad season after a failure to properly staff a rotation well, and freeze payroll? Second, the cost of SP is astronomical, which is what the team needs. That $29M doesn’t look like it will go that far if the plan is to use that on SP. Third, fan confidence in the team has strengthened dramatically over the past few years. Trading their beloved because of a refusal to invest in the team is incredibly foolish; and as I’ve pointed out, I do NOT think it will make the team better.
Hold onto Cutch until July. Use the available $15M as best as you can. Trade some prospects for a decent rotation piece, and be willing to stretch payroll a bit, if needed. Then, if needed, cash in Cutch. THAT is the smart play.
option 4) Cutch performs poorly, team trades him at the deadline and bring up Meadows and he hits over .300 the rest of the way due to rookie luck. Buccos miss the playoffs by 2 games because they held onto Cutch until the deadline and he underperformed. Fans are mad because they didn’t bring up Meadows earlier and give him a chance.
In all actuality, they should probably hold onto him. But, for a team on a limited payroll, I can see the want to trade him. to free up salary and give some young guys a shot. Really though, with two years of control, it would make sense to try to regain some value and keep Meadows in the minors for some extra seasoning. It’s just a big risk to take, especially for a team that relies on their farm for success. Cutch tanking and getting nothing in return for him hurts them more in the long run since they rely on those prospects. Just a big gamble.
Has Meadows’ service clock started? If not, it makes sense to keep him down to gain an extra year of control.
“4” is an option, but an unlikely and a minor one. The odds of half a season of Meadows over McCutchen making a difference of +2 wins is pretty small., particularly since Meadows hit .214 in AAA last year. Only 126 ABs, but the Bucs aren’t calling him up before June 15th anyhow.
And Cutch “tanking” and getting “nothing” for him is even less likely. As things are, they aren’t going to get a top prospect, nor are they going to get a good MLB pitcher. I don’t mind risking that and banking on McCutchen improving over last year.
you know you make a pretty good point that I didn’t really think of. He will lose value if they let him go another 6 months, but that will be the deadline where teams get desperate and could even pay more. So you are probably right in your assessment that holding onto him is the best move. I also think the front office should shut up about being desperate to trade him because who does that help really? I also also think that he should really grow the dreadlocks back. Its quite obvious he is like Samson and all his ability is in the hair. But he should wait until the Pirates make an ill fated trade to send him to the Blue Jays before he does grow it back…
Excellent assessment, econ101. That was well thought out and spot on. I completely agree.
This Has White Sox all over it
Although i know this would never happen, I’d love to have Cutch on the Cardinals.
Finally a good example of this in consecutive posts:
“McCutchen’s 2016 performance fell considerably shy of his sky-high standards on both sides of the ball, as he batted a pedestrian .256/.336/.430”
vs.
“Granderson has been a quietly productive member of the Mets since signing his four-year, $60MM pact prior to the 2013 season, hitting a combined .241/.342/.436”
So one guy’s OPS of .766 is “pedestrian” while another guy’s OPS of .778 is “productive.” This is a common problem on MLBTR, where the same numbers are considered great on the one hand and then lame on the other. I used to attribute it to different authors having different standards of quality, but these two posts were written by the same person.
And I get that OPS doesn’t tell the whole story on a hitter, and that Granderson’s OPS+ over the past three years has been a good deal higher than McCutchen’s was this year, but the point stands since OPS is the metric by which these posts weigh the player’s as hitters.
I’m glad you caught an example of this because it does seem to be a reoccurring theme. I believe the site uses some 1099 guys and some, especially guys doing this for the love and not as their job, tend to let their bias play. I hadn’t been actively looking for it but it seems to happen a bunch. I am seeing it a lot with verbiage towards batting average but was chalking it up to variance amongst writers as you said.
I think they are just comparing their stats between years, not saying compared to the rest of the league, which makes sense. Granderson is a career .255 hitter, so his .241 “quietly productive” seasons on the Mets are close to being inline with his career stats despite getting older.
On the other hand, where I think the “pedestrian” comes in is McCutchen’s last year vs his career. Cutch is a career .292 hitter that batted .256 and put up bad stats in the OF. You’re talking about Granderson hitting .14 points under his career average despite being 35 now vs McCutchen, who dropped almost .40 points in one season at the age of 29.
Not saying one is right or the other, just that I don’t think they were comparing them to the rest of the league when they used those terms. It sounded to me like they were just comparing each against their own career stats.
Rangers need to trade for pitchers not a center fielder just resign Carlos Gomez and get a reliable DH and 1b
Austin Meadows couldn’t hit AAA pitching last season. He’s not going to hit major league pitching at this point. He needs more seasoning in the minors. If the Pirates trade McCutchen, they need another outfielder to go with Marte & Polanco. Marte can play center, so they could add a corner outfielder
Bell, Harrison and Frazier can all play OF.
Dipoto bring him to play RF
We all know the talent this guy has and the level he’s played at has been very high. But I wonder if any of you think he’s going to keep declining? We have seen it with players over and over. Was last year a fluke and will he bounce back? Even if he isn’t the player he once was if he bounces back he will be a pretty good addition to a team. I just know after last year I’m a little skeptical. I’ve seen players fall fast before so I’d be worried if my team traded for him he would be just like those players. I guess you never really know. What would it take to get this guy? Would you risk giving up a lot for a player that really wasn’t that good last year compared to years in the past? This one is hard for me. I’ve been a big fan of his but it seems like a risk to trade for him after last year and knowing how played can just fall of a cliff sometimes. I know we wasn’t terrible last year but he just wasn’t what we are use to. Interest in what everyone else thinks and if I’m just being overly cautious? Lol. No need to tell me I’m stupid and I’m wrong like many love to do on here lol but I would like to know what others think
Feel like the O’s could flip Hunter Harvey, Christian Walker, and some A ball prospects for McCutchen. Would love to see him in RF next to Adam Jones. Win now, Dan Duquette!
Harvey has little to no value being hurt. Walker is garbage. Cutch is going to take top rate prospects to get him. the Nats are set to make a run at Cutch, Sale, Archer. …with the prospects they have they are in good shape.
I’d expect they would probably have to also include either Ryan Mountcastle or Tanner Scott in place of the single A prospect. That’s two in top 100 (one of them in Harvey a projected top of the rotation starter) and a major league ready replacement in Walker.
I agree that the Pirates should keep him til the deadline–I wouldn’t want Texas to trade for him unless the deal favors the Rangers (low level prospects) and the Pirates include money–which they would be crazy to do.
I can’t understand how so many think the return on trading McCutchen would be to land high-level prospects or MLB-ready players. He’s coming off his worst season as a pro and in the final season of a long-term deal. He would also be hitting the trade market when high-profile OFs like Fowler, Bautista, Desmond and Holiday are still out there and teams are shopping other OFs like Bruce, Gardner, Cabrera, J.D. Martinez, Puig and Braun. This is the worst possible time to shop McCutchen and expect much in return if you’re expecting the other team to take his $14.75m contract for ’17 and $1m buyout for ’18.
The problem with your statement is the position is not the same a center fielder is alot harder to find then those corner guys u listed(if they were center fielder’s they haven’t been in years) he was 8th in the league among center fielder’s in ops (I know not what it once was). But still if u need a center fielder and don’t want to pay long term like fowler or desmond he’s a great option. And there’s always the chance he improves upon his line like other players have done previous after having a bad by their own standards season. Not saying he gets a haul but still could get a very nice return.
Cutch is a great player, and I personally believe he will be at least decently better in 2017 than he was in 2016. If not, that would be an almost unprecedented fall from grace. However, you are right. He is NOT going to command a top 10 prospect–particularly because of all of the other options out there. Demand is OK, but supply is sky-high. Cutch isn’t getting Robles or Giolito. In addition, he’s not bringing back a top arm. Forget Archer, Sale, etc. Not going to happen. It is for these two reasons that the Bucs should gamble and hold him until the trade deadline. Gamble that he’ll regain value and/or help the team out.
As a Mariners fan I hope they stay away from Cutch. Seeing how Dipoto has made moves so far, I could see him giving up a huge package for Cutch and completely overpay. If they’re able to acquire Cutch for a low price, which shouldn’t happen and probably isn’t going to happen, then I’d be all aboard. But Dipoto’s willingness to undersell/overpay worries me.
I get the positional issues, but we’re also talking about McCutchen who ranked worst among full-time CF last season. Not middle of the pack, or low — the worst. That’s quite a lot to overcome moving forward. very few teams are going to go in search of a CF and then take on one who ranked as bas as you can from a defensive standpoint — especially when his hitting numbers are down as well.
Wonder what they would ask for from the Mariners. Peterson, Gohara, and Moore? I feel like Dipoto would overpay for a player on the decline.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Cutch in a Seattle uni, slot him in between Segura and Cano.
I could see McCutcheon and Taillon for C. Sale. As a Cubs fan tho, I’d like Soler,
Szczur, plus a top 15-20 minor league arm for him.
The fan earlier that said the A’s. that’s a really good idea here. I could see Astros as well. As surprise suitors that is.
Nats are looking at every thing this off-season it seems.
It makes me sad to see the pirates move him. Especially at his lowest value (and I’m a cards fan).
Cutch is such a likeable person. Makes me sad
I know it’s in-division and competing teams. But cards need a CF/LFer and have some young arms.
Doubt the Pirates want to see Cutch rebound in their division though
anyone consider that cutch is demanding a trade. he was vocal last year about walker and Pedro leaving and made some comments about hurdle.
Obviously, if the Pirates could get Giolito, they should do it, even if they have to include Tony Watson.
But, if the Phillies are interested, what about Cutch for Velasquez? Fair? If not, who needs to add?
Love the name homie.
What would be a fair trade from The Blue Jays for Andrew McCutchen.
Forget about Stroman, there has to come more from the Pirates besides Andrew McCutchen.(My opinion)