Andrew Miller has thrived with the Indians and Aroldis Chapman has done well with the Cubs, but that doesn’t change the Yankees’ sides of the trades that sent those relievers packing, writes the New York Post’s Joel Sherman. Even if the Indians and Cubs had missed the World Series, the Yankees had two top-notch relievers to deal and needed to get peak value from them. The Yankees need to hit on their acquisitions of Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield and Gleyber Torres, but the spotlights on Miller and Chapman shouldn’t cause Yankees fans to become increasingly impatient. Sherman notes that many key Indians players (including Corey Kluber, Carlos Santana, Michael Brantley, Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer and Bryan Shaw) were acquired in veterans-for-prospects deals much like the ones the Yankees made in dealing Miller and Chapman. Here’s more on the World Series, and what, if anything, teams that aren’t in the Series can learn from the teams that are.
- The Cubs had similar success in veterans-for-prospects trades, getting Jake Arrieta, Kyle Hendricks, Addison Russell, Pedro Strop and Travis Wood in such deals. But just as important was the 2012 deal that sent Andrew Cashner and a minor leaguer to the Padres for Anthony Rizzo and a prospect, as SB Nation’s Grant Brisbee notes in a list of key trades for both World Series teams. For awhile, Cashner looked like one of the NL’s better young starters, but the deal eventually tilted in the Cubs’ favor as Cashner struggled despite his excellent stuff and Rizzo became a force in the middle of Chicago’s lineup.
- It’s doubtful whether Theo Epstein would have been able to rebuild the Red Sox the way he did with the Cubs, Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal writes. The Red Sox faithful would not have shown much patience for such a rebuild, MacPherson argues. Of course, Boston has had its share of losing seasons in recent years, but never were such losing seasons part of a broader rebuilding project, and MacPherson highlights the differences between some of the big trades the Cubs have made during losing periods and those of the Red Sox. When they traded Jon Lester, Jon Lackey and Miller in 2014, for example, the Red Sox got veterans like Yoenis Cespedes, Joe Kelly and Allen Craig. They did get youngster Eduardo Rodriguez in the Miller deal, and had success with the Lester deal too, in that they traded Cespedes and Alex Wilson for Rick Porcello. But it’s clear the Red Sox took a fundamentally different approach. Of course, it’s arguable that a full rebuild wasn’t necessary for the Red Sox at that time — by 2014 they were one year removed from a World Series victory and were already in the process of integrating youngsters like Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts and Jackie Bradley into their lineup, and they had an excellent season of their own in 2016, just two years later.
- Regardless of what happens in the World Series, the Cubs plan to ask coaches to return in 2017, ESPN’s Jesse Rogers writes. They are, however, considering the possibility that bench coach Dave Martinez could depart, since Martinez appears to be a candidate for the Rockies’ open managerial job. Maddon says Martinez’s current job has prepared him well. “When the guy does the bench coaching properly, I absolutely believe it sets him up to be a manager,” says Maddon. “He should be there to let the manager intellectualize the day.”
mike244
The Redsox won a World Series and are set up extremely well with their young talent, prospects, money, and roster. Obviously a rebuild was not needed, The RS right now I would say are set up better than any team not named the Cubs, and maybe Dodgers for long term success. Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Moncada, Benintendi, Erod, Swihart, Devers. Plus good veteran players like Price, Porcello, Hanley, Pedroia, plus all their money coming off a ALE crown and 93 win season.
The Redsox are no Cubs, but hard to argue with their current organization.
galihaaben 2
It’ll be tough that they lose Ortiz. But they can replace him with one of the two Blue Jay sluggers. (I read around that Bautista is interested in signed with Boston) But then they still have $100 million dollar man, Pablo Sandoval. Maybe they can stick him to a full-time DH role; hes just as “big” anyway.
I don’t think you should ignore the Indians either for being set-up well for the future. They have had Naquin, Lindor and Ramirez step up this season with Michael Brantley out for the season +. Their rotation is strong and they’ve been without Carlos Carrasco, which makes this World Series run great. Will probably see Boston and Cleveland in the playoffs for the next several seasons. Don’t forget that the Indians did sweep the Red Sox even after great campaign seasons from Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley Jr.
charlienutlikka
david price needs to get out of boston. he sucks
Zippydots
lol yeah he does
galihaaben 2
Could say the same about Sandoval; look at that contract. Money could have gone elsewhere.
bigjonliljon
Easy call at 13.5 million. Have to keep him. Even if trade bait. That’s pretty cheap salary these days
jacobywankenobi 2
The thought that the performance of Miller and Chapman in October has anything to do with the trades the Yankees made is ridiculous. They knew who they were trading, and they got amazing returns for them. Of course there’s inherent risk in prospects, that’s why they’re called prospects.
galihaaben 2
Anyone can say that the Yankees helped these teams get to this point, which quite frankly is true, you have to close wins and Miller/Chapman were probably the best to do it in this league. But they’re only there to close out games or provide innings relief, not bat 1-9. That requires collective effort from everyone else.
The Yankees did acquire amazing returns in prospects, but even their own prospect, Aaron Judge, can’t hit a pitch over the plate in the MLB-level. Obviously, the Yankees shouldn’t be in playoff contention next season (I don’t know why everyones talking about them wanting to sign some 30+ year old pitcher to bolster their rotation. They have a plethora of pitching prospects waiting at Triple-A to audition). They should attempt to trade their veterans (Gardner, Headley, McCann) to open up spots to audition for in Spring Training.
jakem59
No one in Scranton has done anything to deserve being handed a spot in the ML rotation for the Yankees.
galihaaben 2
I don’t disagree but their pitchers get injured quite often. Someone from Triple-A is going to get a call if their pitchers aren’t able to pitch well or get injured. In fact, all they really have is Tanaka and Sabathia. They aren’t that durable either. I’m not going to count Pineda because he could possibly be traded, but if not, he’s hasn’t been durable (before this season) and he can’t get guys out on two-strike counts.
Brixton
Bottom line is Theo is arguably the best GM any of us will ever see, and is way better than Dombrowski ever is or will be.
You can say what you want, but talent has been pouring out of the Red Sox organization since Dombrowski took over, not only on the field, but in the front office.
Anderson Espinosa, Manuel Margot, Pat Light, Javier Guerra, Aaron Wilkerson, Jose Almonte, Luis Basabe, then Hazen and Sawdaye
I mean, I get making win-now deals, but you’re slowly hurting a deep system.
mike244
Hazen left because he was offered a better job. They offered him a position that only Dombrowski has in Boston. The RS couldn’t match the Dbacks offer because they could not give him the position. It is that simple. Can’t blame either Hazen for taking it, or DD for Hazen’s departure.
As far as those prospects you listed. Only Margot and Espinoza is any good/has value. All the other guys are filler organizational depth type pieces. Kimberl still has a lot of value and the RS can recoup some of that value by offering him a QO when he hits FA. Pomeranz still is a pretty good arm. I don’t know what your point is. Maybe DD overpaid a bit, but it wasn’t crazy.
Also, DD just had a great draft. BA ranked the RS 2016 draft 5th best.
BoldyMinnesota
Javy Guerra is a top prospect isn’t he?
mike244
He was, not anymore after hitting .202/.260 this seasons in minors in A+ ball.
mike244
Price, Kimbrel, Pomeranz, Young, Ziegler. In the minors, Groome, Dalbec, ect. Lets not act like DD hasn’t added a ton of talent to organization too. Only Margot and Espinoza are the good talents he traded. I would say, there has been more talent in than out since DD has took over GM.
The Redsox are in fantastic shape.They should be very good for a long time. Not sure there are many organizations that are set up better. Maybe Cubs or Dodgers in NL.
bigjonliljon
Too early to say. DD hasn’t had the time for his young talent to prove anything. The young guys currently making names for themselves are from the Theo regime. That being said, DD isn’t much for young talent development. He’s always been more for FA acquisitions
Polish Hammer
Easy to be a great GM when you have checkbooks he has been privy to, let’s see him do that work in a small market team with a shoestring budget.
MB923
Apples and oranges. We will never know how he would do as a GM of a small market team because chances are a small market team is never going to hire him over a large market team
Just because big market GM’s have checkbooks doesn’t mean they’re going to be a success. The Yankees have missed the playoffs 3 out of the past 4 years. The Dodgers have not been to a World Series since 1988. Only 2 other NL teams – The Nationals (another big market) and the Brewers have a longer pennant drought.
jakem59
Anderson Espinosa – High talent but still very young and far away from contributing and looked very shakey at A-Ball in both systems.
Manuel Margot-High prospect, but blocked everywhere in the OF and if you want talent you need to give talent.,
Pat Light-High college pick that hasn’t panned out and got absolutely shelled in the majors this year.,
Javier Guerra-Big glove, small bat. Flier prospect in low levels, years away from contributing, if ever.,
Aaron Wilkerson-27 year old non prospect. got shelled after trade to Milwaukee.,
Jose Almonte-Super young, super raw. Medium ceiling, very low floor. Flier prospect at best.
Luis Basabe-Non-factor. His brother is the prospect, not him
Non of these guys outside of Espinoza were expected to contribute anything massive in Boston, either because they were blocked by better players (Guerra, Margot) or they just didn’t have great progression expectations.. Theo made several terrible “win-now” trades, some of which look far worse than anything DD has done so far. Funny how everyone seems to forget this.
DanMizer
As a Yankee fan I’m thrilled Chapman and Miller have done well and are helping their respective teams in the World Series. It’s good business. Hopefully all teams can make out on this deal and the Yankees get much needed young top level talent. Good business
mike156
Agree. All three teams got what they wanted out of the trades–the Yankees know they only bought potential, but given the state of their roster and farm system before this whole cycle, they need to trade high-value players for youth and athleticism.
galihaaben 2
Agreed as well. Cashman had to move those players. I’m more surprised at the return that he received. Now that he has a lot to play with, I’m more interested in reading about what he does this offseason.
Ken M.
The Red Sox had to blow up and get out from under the mess that Theo left.
MB923
What mess? If there is any mess that is on the Red Sox, who would be on Cherrington (Who also got out of Theo’s mess with one big trade)
Somebody correct me if I”m wrong, but I think the only remaining player on the Red Sox roster when Theo was GM is Pedroia (and Buchholz if he is bought back).
I don’t know what mess you’re talking about, but If you feel there is some kind of mess in Boston, it would be on Cherington (possibly DD). Not Theo.
gomerhodge71
You’re right about Cherington, but let’s not put St. Theo on his pedestal just yet. Bronson Arroyo-for-Willy Mo Pena, signing Julio Lugo like Lugo was the second coming of Ozzie Smith, Carl Crawford and trading Rizzo for Adrian Gonzalez (which should have worked, but Gonzalez had a meteor-sized chip on his shoulder) and I could name at least half a dozen more ridiculous moves.
lucienbel
I still don’t entirely understand Gonzalez’s attitude while he was in Boston. I know he got talked about some for having lost some power. But all in all, the only whole year he was in Boston was pretty damn good. It never felt as if anyone was too harsh on him. Perhaps something more behind the scenes, but that was at the time a ton of crap seemed to always be going on behind the scenes.
Also, saying Red Sox fans couldn’t go through a four-five year rebuild is essentially saying they wouldn’t have put up with those three miserable seasons surrounded by 2013 and now the sort of younger roster influx unless they signed big names. Maybe true, but most of the big outside contracts the Sox sign seem to come up short, so what does that say.
tim815
It’s clearly a huge benefit, being in a larger market. That said, Epstein putting so much care in scouting quality and quantity is a habit most teams ought to be able to mimic, if not replicate. Among the best seem to be the Indians, who are getting top shelf results from less than a monstrous budget.
If (insert team here) would wisely add a million per year to their scouting budget (international/pro/amateur/combination), they would be a better organization in probably 18 months or less.
MatthewBaltimore23
I’m pretty sure that it’s John Lackey