OCT. 13: Lin tweets that Dr. Thompson told Green he was pleased with the operation, indicating that no complications arose and no additional damage was found in Ross’ shoulder. Ross had one of his ribs removed to alleviate some pressure, as is common in TOS operations.
OCT. 12: Padres right-hander Tyson Ross, who made only one appearance during the 2016 season due to persistent shoulder troubles, will undergo surgery to relieve thoracic outlet syndrome, manager Andy Green tells Dennis Lin of the San Diego Union-Tribune. The surgery comes with a projected recovery timeline of four to six months, leaving the Friars hopeful that Ross will be ready for Spring Training. Lin adds that Dr. Robert Thompson, who is considered the nation’s leading expert on thoracic outlet syndrome, will perform the surgery on Thursday.
While not as prevalent as the dreaded Tommy John surgery, thoracic outlet surgery (TOS) isn’t uncommon. Just this season, Mets right-hander Matt Harvey and Twins right-hander Phil Hughes have undergone the procedure, which alleviates a compression of blood vessels and nerves near the shoulder — often by removing a rib from the patient. Lin notes that Ross’ teammate, Clayton Richard, underwent the surgery in 2014, as did former Padres right-hander Chris Young. Other recent TOS patients include Cardinals lefty Jaime Garcia, former NL Cy Young winner Chris Carpenter and former big league reliever Mike Adams, to name a few.
Ross, 29, was an oft-speculated trade candidate both at the 2015 non-waiver deadline and in the 2015-16 offseason, but the Padres hung onto their top starter rather than deal him for what one can only assume would have been a strong package of prospects. Acquired in a what looked to be a fairly forgettable trade back in November 2012 (Oakland sent Ross and A.J. Kirby-Jones to San Diego in exchange for infielder Andy Parrino and left-hander Andrew Werner), Ross broke out with a terrific 2013 season in San Diego. From 2013-15, the former second-round pick pitched to a 3.07 ERA with 9.2 K/9, 3.5 BB/9 and a hefty 58.2 percent ground-ball rate across 516 2/3 innings — including a pair of 195+ inning seasons in 2014-15.
That performance netted Ross a notable $9.625MM salary for the 2016 campaign, but he managed just 5 1/3 innings this season — all of which came on Opening Day for the Padres. His lost season obviously won’t result in any type of raise in arbitration, so San Diego figures to control him for the same amount in 2017 as well. If Ross is able to demonstrate his health and return to his previous levels of excellence, he could yet become an appealing trade asset for the Padres next July. Of course, he’ll be a pure rental at that point, as Ross is slated to hit free agency following the 2017 season. That fact makes the success of this surgery and a return to form next year all the more important for Ross, as a rebound would position him for a nice payday as he enters the open market on the brink of his age-31 season.
The A’s have handed the padres a pair of starters for almost nothing in Pomeranz and Ross
and neither of them really ever played for or had any impact with the Padres. Ross had a 4.80 FIP in his final year with Oakland, he was terrible for them.
A’s traded the clubhouse cancer in Pomeranz for Alonso, who they used everyday in 2016 and also flipped Eye Chart for Max Schrock, one of the most underrated prospects in the game.
Take a seat,gmflores27.
Where did you see anything about Pomeranz being a clubhouse cancer?
He is saying Alonso is a clubhouse cancer. I don’t know if Alonso really is tho.
No, Pomeranz was in Oakland. He punched a chair in the middle of a pennant race and basically forced the Addison Russell deal to happen, as the A’s needed Hammel too – he really let the team down and they let him know it. He was traded after right Slusser posted numerous articles about how bad the clubhouse chemistry was, so by process of elimination, he was one of the guys she was talking about.
Alonso is a fantastic person and teammate. Wish he could OPS 800+ though, he’d be elite if that happened.
Even if he could magically go from a sub-.700 OPS to .800+, a poor corner infield defender with an .800 OPS is far from elite.
As for Pomeranz forcing the awful Samardzija deal, that’s all on Beane.
You’re ALWAYS on here speculating like you know EXACTLY what goes on in the clubhouses and throwing accusations about people’s character. You sound like the most unhappy person in chat room history.
I’m pretty sure by now no one likes Just Another Fan on here. He would make the MLB trade rumors world a lot happier if he would just F off and never comment again.
Moreso, how did Ross barely play for the Padres? Didn’t he have three good years for them?
Pomeranz was barely played for, Ross had two 190+ IP seasons for under .500 teams, that’s what I meant by no impact.
I’d say 2. 14 and 15. But that is far more than “never really playing” regardless.
Also, even if Pom didn’t pitch much for the padres, he got them Espinoza
A couple of years ago I’d never even heard of Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, now this is at least 7th case of a ballplayer being operated on for it within the last year or so. Is it contagious, or was it called something else before?
I’m assuming better diagnoses. Probably lots of pitchers needed it but never knew what it was. I mean, we can only guess how many pitchers had ligaments snap before TJ surgery, right? Like, obviously Koufax needed it, and Satchel Paige mentions in his autobiography about feeling something in his elbow snap, forcing him to change his pitching style.
Could be, but it seems like the UCL injury was a known quantity long before anyone figured out how to repair it. Thoracic Outlet Syndrome seems (to me, anyway) like both the condition and the treatment appeared at the same time out of nowhere.
my dad has had it since like 2005.. he hasn’t had surgery though because he doesn’t throw a baseball for a living
Was he offered surgery ten years ago?
yeah he was , come to think of it i think he actually did have it
I’d lean towards either diagnostic improvements or finally finding a treatment that had success.
I injured my shoulder as a pitcher a decade ago and had pain and numbness and tingles down my arm while throwing. I had several ortho consultations and they all agreed on tearing in the shoulder which in turn was causing the pain to radiate. Rather than go through all that I just quit baseball.
A decade later with my arm still killing me on a daily basis I finally succumbed to shoulder surgery which involved a few major repairs. “The worst shoulder I’ve seen” was the first comment I got as I woke up in the post-op area. With that amount of damage he was still confident I’d be able to return to throwing if I so desired.
Well 18 months of therapy later, my shoulder felt much better, though far from perfect, but still caused pain when I threw or stretched in certain directions. Well after all that, my rehab therapist did some more testing and confirmed I was suffering from “mild” TOS. I was given exercises to stretch the nerves in that area to try and create space and slack, none of which had a lasting effect. When I asked about surgery to alleviate it and hearing that they remove a rib, he cringed and said that’s not something you want to go through, and removing ribs should not be something taken lightly.
So long story short, I was examined by several respected so cal doctors and they all agreed it was radiating pain and not TOS. Most of the doctors did an elevated arm pulse check which is one of the ways to diagnose it, and while some mentioned the weakening of my pulse, they still seemed confident that fixing the anatomy in my shoulder would resolve the pain.
I’ve also had tommy-John performed on me as well, and they did a full nerve study in my arm to determine if they would relocate my ulnar nerve or not. The test showed no nerve impingement in my neck, shoulder or elbow, but a positive impingement in my wrist, and so I had hand surgery the same time as my elbow reconstruction. So this was a test designed to look for these nerve issues and it still didn’t show up on mine.
Sometimes doctors make diagnosis by ruling things out first, and then arrive at a full diagnosis. If there’s multiple factors involved it’s not always clear cut despite all of our modern equipment. It also requires the player being able to explain his condition well enough to give the doctor a chance to find it. I’m sure now every time a player comes on for shoulder pain or numbness, TOS is one of the first things they’ll test and try to rule out, and that probably wasn’t the case even 10 years ago. That probably felt like a “rare” condition to doctors until fairly recently, and now know to look for it early on.
Had I gone in with a “clean” shoulder and still had pain and numbness perhaps they’d have come to a different diagnosis sooner. But it’s not a perfect science.
And then even with a diagnosis, they might not have been sure how to “fix” it until recently. Cutting out ribs probably wasn’t the first thought in most doctors minds, nor were players likely lining up to be mutulated to see if it helps or not. If you go back over surgery procedures of the past, it’s littered with cases of “cutting edge” procedures of the time now being looked at as crockery. “Why would they do that back then! That’s not how to fix it you idiots! All those athletes you worked on you just made worse! THIS is how you fix it.”
Sorry that got really long.
Not too long at all! Quite interesting, and thanks for taking the time!
No need to apologize. I agree with BlueSkyLA 100%. Thank you for taking the time to share
Most reports that talk to doctors about TOS indicate that it’s difficult to diagnose. The surgery is pretty invasive — removing a rib — so I’d imagine it’s not something they push for unless it’s somewhat of a last resort. Chris Young had a great interview with the KC Star a couple years back about what his life was like while he was dealing with TOS and about how many doctors he had to go to before it was diagnosed. Phil Hughes seems to have been pitching through myriad arm injuries for nearly two seasons before it was finally properly identified.
The real question is will Tyson pitch in 2017? And we want the real answer, not the fluff answers that Padres brass has been spouting since April.
I’m honestly upset they didn’t do this sooner.
Assume a strong package of prospects? Making a very bold assumption there if anything. Doubt the padres received anything close to a strong package due to his 41% + reliance on his slider 3 years in a row- coupled with injury history- and his bb/9 had been trending the wrong way since 2013, 3 each year closer to 4 in 2015.
They might had received a decent/ok package but odds were had ross been ross preller would have received a better package at the deadline.
Well, it certainly would have been a better package than what they’ll get now. See that list of pitchers who have had this surgery? Not real promising.
What injury history? Ross had only had like one minor injury in his entire professional career before 2016.
But you’re also the guy who said that Chapman would be stupid if he didn’t take an extension with the Cubs for like $35m so idk what I was expecting from you.
Ross always had really bad mechanics though, and since 2014 he started throwing his slider a lot more than before, hence the success and subsequent health issues.
He was a ticking time bomb. In Oakland he was a bad pitcher who was a ticking time bomb, with SD he was a good pitcher, but still a ticking time bomb.
Just ignore him. What most of the commenters have learned to do
If you are a homer fan who truly believes your team is infallible and will never do anything wrong and every player on your team is the greatest player of all time, you are probably going to not like my unbiased opinions on your fave team you are a homer of.
All — please make your points without personal attacks. It’s just not necessary.
What injury history? Ross has always had little things nag him here and there. Left oblique strain in 2011. The left shoulder that caused him to be relegated to bullpen duty n 2013. End of 2014 it was a right flexor strain.
Also even in a comment from many news outlets, heres a specific one. google.com/amp/friarsonbase.com/2015/09/29/padres-…
“That said, the Padres are probably not inclined to risk any injury especially with his injury history and high innings load unless” LOL what injury history- apparently the one people are aware of except you Ryan. Typical. Everyones in the loop except Ryan.
Also the fact you dont remember my comment on chapman and made up an absurd number proves how irrelevant your comment is. If you actually go back youd see id say chapman would be smart to sign an extension because the cubs give him the best chance at multiple ws. If he takes less money than he would command,but paid decently, they could keep the core in tact. Itd be great if he signs with the brewers making 20 mill a season or whatever…..but hed sit in the pen a lot and would be on a losing team. Its not fun playing on a losing team. He could go to a contender but what theyre paying him they could wind up shortening their window esp if the team has other needs to fill.
Exactly, like one or two minor fluke injuries. Nothing to be concerned about. Obviously 2016 is a different story tho.
And I don’t have to make up any numbers. Here’s your comment:
“It does if he gets equal to or above market value.
Cubs give him around 5 years, 60-70 million (12-14 a year) with 40-60% in guarantees he’d be stupid to not sign cause hes not getting 15 mill or more in the off season especially if the yankees dont trade him and QO him.
Plus, he’d be signing with a perennial ws contender that have 3+ year window of lineup stability.”
First off, you say that they should sign him for “40-60% in guarantees” when all MLB contracts are 100% guaranteed. $70m with 50% in guarantees is $35m so that is about what you were suggesting. You said that that was about equal to or above market value for Chapman when in reality, $70m guaranteed is likely the FLOOR for what Chapman will get this offseason. And either way, Chapman would be stupid to sign ANY extension because he would make a LOT more money if he is allowed to negotiate with all 30 teams than if he limits the market to just one, regardless of whether or not he is signing with a perennial WS contender. I was right on the money about how Chapman wouldn’t take an extension with any team and you can expect to see him cash in once the offseason hits.
I think you can make your points without calling people stupid, etc.
By 40%-60% in guarantees i meant incentive based as in if he reaches certain mile stones- games saved innings pitched strikeout the guarantees kick in on top of his salary. In the NFL theyre incentives but as you said MLB contracts are guaranteed hence itd be guaranteed money if he reaches the milestones; ive never heard contract clauses in the mlb called incentive based-ive heard milestones. 40%-60% of 12-14 mill is around 16-18 mill total. I never once said 40-60% of his total salary the 60-70 money. Also no team should commit that much money but they will and itll cost the team with the product on the field. And as you see signing with the cubs for the chance at a ws was in my comment.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you clearly know nothing about math or baseball! 40-60% of 12-14m is 5-8.4m. How do you get 16-18m from that? And Chapman would never EVER take an incentive-based contract. He’s going to want all his money to be guaranteed. And not just guaranteed if he reaches certain milestones, but guaranteed PERIOD. And you know what else? He’s going to get it. I can’t believe you would say that he should take an incentive-based extension with the Cubs when he could just wait three months and be offered the same amount of money (and possibly more) 100% guaranteed from other teams! You are DELUSIONAL hahaha!
And the fact that the Cubs are set up very well for the future doesn’t make up for that big of a loss in salary.
Are internet comment pages admissible in civil commitment hearings?
12 x 4/10 (40%) is 48/10 or 4.8 million.
12+4.8 is 16.8. 16.8 falls between 16-18.
12 + 12x 50% is 12 +6 or 18 mill
Are you incapable of understanding conservative estimates or understanding 40-60% is A RANGE of numbers. Not just 40 and 60. 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 are numbers that exist too ryan!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Your ignorance knows no bounds ryan. Truly astonishing how incapable you are at seeing where those numbers came from.
Also do you not know the difference between “around” and “exactly” LOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOL
Glad we can have threads like this, it’s really enlightening and informative to us all.
I always wonder what it’s like to talk to people who post stuff like
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
or
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
in person. I should volunteer to serve at an elementary school lunchroom and find out.
Oh, so you were saying $12m guaranteed plus an additional $4-6m in incentives? I get it now.
Still, Chapman will have no trouble getting at least $14m guaranteed per year on the open market so it would be stupid of him to take the extension you suggested. And since you think it would be stupid of him to NOT take that and to test free agency instead, it’s pretty clear who is in truth the ignorant one hahaha.
Once again you miss the point entirely ryan.
Chapman would be stupid to not take the extension for the following reasons.
1. He could get paid more elsewhere but more money he makes more of a problem it becomes for the team to add talent elsewhere to form a competitive roster. Hes a closer not a position player. He could possibly get 15 18 or so. But hed be going to a team that probably wont compete for a ws.
2. If he signs with a team that has issues competing he becomes subject to a trade and may wind up somewhere he may not want to be cause he may only get 6 teams on his no trade list if he gets one.
Cubs offer the most stability of any team going forward in the league. Signing with them at a discounted rate offers stability for 3+ years.
He could sign with the yankees or some other team but they could suck and wind up dealing him.
Sad that you only see financials and think thats all that matters in baseball lol.
I’m not going to claim to know how much stock Chapman puts into playing for a good team (if any) because I don’t. Maybe he’ll give the Cubs a discount, maybe he won’t.
Either way, it would be stupid for him to take an extension because he’ll get more money waiting out free agency even if he does want to stay in Chicago. It stands to reason that the Cubs will have to pay Chapman more money if they have to outbid the other 29 teams than if they are the only team allowed to negotiate with him. Make no mistake. Chapman and his agent want to start a bidding war and even if he does end up re-signing with the Cubs, it will be for more money than they offered him when they traded for him.
P.S. if he signs with whoever offers him the most money, I don’t think he cares if they try to trade him later. He still gets paid.
P.P.S. the Yankees are actually looking pretty good for the future. Bottomless pockets and a newly revitalized farm system.
baseballprospectus.com/p/58617
scroll down to injury history.
That site says he had Tommy John surgery in 2005 and left shoulder surgery after the 2013 season which he didn’t so no thanks.
google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/mlb/2…
He did have left shoulder surgery in 2013. It was to fix the shoulder issue he sustained when hitting that relegated him to bullpen duty that year. So acutally he did have left shoulder surgery in 2013 in the off season hence 0 dl days 0 games missed.
Definitely has never had Tommy John surgery tho
Agreed. Unless Ross has a crazy year, whatever they might be able to get for him in a trade is probably not going to match the package they could have received last offseason.
I’ve said this before, but they really should have tried to trade him sooner when his value was higher. His injuries and high slider usage were definitely red flags that should have warned the team that needed to sell high on him as soon as they had the chance.
Even Preller couldn’t hide this one
TOS is the TJS
Too many young pitchers these days suffer from the same injuries. Something is seriously wrong in the development process, and it literally ruins careers.
BTW, wrong Chris Carpenter reference.
Throwing a baseball, especially at these velocities is not a normal or healthy movement for the human shoulder.
Couple that with the fact that many young pitchers are playing more games in year-round leagues, which is putting more mileage on their arm by the time they graduate high school.