Here’s the latest from the Steel City…
- While J.A. Happ is enjoying a strong season with the Blue Jays, Pirates GM Neal Huntington (via Stephen J. Nesbitt of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) didn’t express too much regret over not re-signing the southpaw after his turnaround performance in Pittsburgh. “We wanted to re-sign J.A. We weren’t able to meet the financial asks, or chose not to. Toronto was aggressive and came and got him,” Huntington said. While noting that “hindsight always gives you the opportunity to wish you had done something differently,” Huntington also mentioned that Happ is still not even a full season through the first year of the three-year deal, so it could be too early to judge the signing.
- Huntington also told reporters (including MLB.com’s Adam Berry) that the Pirates are actively scouring the waiver wire for possible additions, though he cited the inherent difficulties of landing players through the unpredictable August waivers process. Some of the salary saved in the Francisco Liriano trade could help the Bucs make claims on pricier players, Huntington said, whether it’s to actually obtain the players themselves or simply block them from going to rival teams.
- If the Pirates were willing to sell low on Liriano just to get his contract off the books, Travis Sawchik of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review wonder if the club would consider the same with Andrew McCutchen this winter. The former NL MVP is owed $14MM in 2017, and the Bucs have a $14.5MM club option ($1MM buyout) on his services for 2018. McCutchen’s contract has long considered one of the game’s most team-friendly deals given how the outfielder emerged as a superstar after signing the extension, so while it seems wild to now consider it a financial burden, McCutchen is suffering through the worst season of his career, hitting just .241/.314/.404 with 15 homers through 443 PA. Despite these struggles, you would figure that the modest contractual commitment, McCutchen’s relative youth (he’s 29) and excellent track record would still figure to make him a sought-after trade chip if Pittsburgh indeed made him available. Highly-touted prospect Austin Meadows is also waiting in the wings for the Pirates as a possible outfield replacement.
The comment about signing JA Happ is very reasonable, lets recall that he was picked up from Seattle for a mediocre prospect and his track record wasn’t great to warrant the risk for a small market team. Kudos for Toronto for picking it up though.
The Cutch trade scenario has some legitimate legs IMO. He’s a Pittsburgh ICON and surely already earned the entirety of his contract value wise at this point. That doesn’t mean that the future for him should remain in the burgh… the problem is to sell on Cutch at this point would be selling at a very low point and the return would likely be under the value for what he brings to the team.
Basically, you have to wait for 2017 to see if he can turn it back around and be one of the best players in the game again… although hard to see that at this point, that’s what he’s been and that’s the kind of value he could bring in the offseason of 2017 potentially. You just can’t remove him until you see otherwise it could be a historically poor decision.
Rock and a hard place: If they trade him and he regains superstar form, then they get slammed for selling low. If they keep him and he continues to perform poorly then they get slammed for not selling when they could’ve.
Ideally he tears the cover off the ball these last two months, but I don’t see that happening. The Pirates absolutely will need him to reemerge at least as a reliable everyday player in 2017.
I think he gets traded either way in the offseason. If his production jumps at the end of the year, you obviously deal him while he’s hot. But even if he continues to struggle, he still has value since many would consider this a one year blip for him. If you keep him for 2017 and he continues to struggle, you are again limiting your playoff chances while his trade value would plummet. You can keep him for 2017 and hope he gets hot but there are other options at AAA (Meadows, Bell) that have breakout potential. Besides that, I doubt he ever agrees to move from CF and I don’t want him there again next year when he has cost us a few games with his poor defense and Marte has been a difference maker when he has been in CF.
I am thinking trade deadline next year unless someone knocks the socks off of NH. Meadows needs to start the year in AAA next season. 1st and foremost, missed time at AAA already this year and you want him hitting the ground full speed next season and not have to be sent back unless you really have to. 2nd is the MLB way of doing business.. Hold him down to save and extra year of control.. Every team does that unless there are injuries and you have to bring a kid up.
Bell will be at 1st base and Meadows will be the heir to Cuctch. I am thinking they will get a better deal next trade deadline.
If the Pirates listen in on offers for Andrew McCutchen the Braves need to do whatever it takes to get that man!
I have long thought Cutch to the Braves was a great match.
Pirates get some of those Braves prospects they have been stock piling.
Braves get a face of the franchise.
Cutch gets closer to home (FL).
Plus the John Hart and Huntingdon connection. Could happen.
Cutch would not be the face of the franchise for the Braves. That is Freeman, by far.
Usually I scoff at braves fans remarks about how they need everyone, and this is no different. Makes no sense to give up on a rebuild for a guy who wouldn’t even be around when you want to compete.
@chieftoto Actually it would make sense. I believe, this would kinda of put them in a spot to contend next season for a wildcard spot.
The OF would probably be:
Kemp(one gets traded), Incierte/Smith(one gets traded), McCutch
IF: Garcia, Swanson, Ozzie, Freeman
C: Ramos
That’s a major league lineup that well balanced power, walks, and speed.
Our rotation wouldn’t be amazing:
Folty, Teheran, Wisler, Jenkins?, maybe Newcomb/Sims/crazy FA vet.
Given our prospects we could get a solid guy from somewhere and our bullpen has been decent and will have a lot of guys fighting for it.
The crazy thing is, I don’t see us given up a lot of McCutchen because of how low they would be selling. Truthfully, it may be wise to try and get him. Maybe Sims, Touki, and the SS we just got from the Marlins, with one more could get him. I would say Inciarte or Smith but they don’t need OF, Swanson or Ozzie wouldn’t go. I could see Newcomb trade hands as a top 100 prospect himself.
You don’t bet on a crazier things have happened scenario in the middle of a rebuild. It is shortsighted and impatient approach. They aren’t competing next year. That package wouldn’t get McCutchen simply because there are 28 other teams that can put in offers for him, and that one is bad.
That line up is not good. Kemp sucks, Inciarte hasn’t hit this year, wouldn’t bet on him, no one knows what Swanson is gonna do at the ML level. He has a 117 wRC+ in AA. Who knows if Ramos will sign with the braves or be this good next year.
The Pirates would not sell low on McCutchen. They may trade him but they will probably want a substantial return. If they don’t get that they probably just keep him.
Inciarte is on a 19 game hitting streak. He has hit this year. It just took him awhile. Probably due to the injury.
I think you are painting an optimistic picture that may or may not be true. That line up you propose has plenty of bust potential in it also.
Adonis Garcia. We are seeing some really good production out of Garcia now but it’s hard to believe this is really Garcia discovering how to hit well. I think it’s a mistake to project his present production into next season.
McCutchen. If you think the Pirates are going to sell low on Cutch, I think you will be surprised at how much he costs. A package of prospects will probably cost only slightly less than it would have from last year. This puts all the risk on the Braves plate and I believe that is a mistake.
Ramos. Having a career year. Problem is it doesn’t fall in line with his typical production and career years don’t tend to repeat.
Between these three potential busts and a rotation that is a complete mystery box, you could be looking at a roster that was very costly in money and talent that doesnt win more than 78 games. With a trade for Cutch you cant even possibly know that Swanson and Albie’s will be part of the line up.
Pittsburgh should dangle meadows out there in the off season and see if they can finally fill 1st and other positions to contend. Majority of their roster seems set just need to fill some holes and suppliment
Maybe contact the braves about a freeman + others package revolving around meadows.
Bell will fill 1B for them. 1B isn’t a need.
If Freeman hasn’t been traded by now, what makes you think some prospect is going to do it? I realize that no one is untouchable, but Freeman is as close to that as you can possibly get. Not only is your package underwhelming, the PR nightmare that would follow, a few months before opening a brand new stadium, is not something Choppy will do.
Braves don’t need an OF prospect. They have a pretty solid OF as is now, with Enciarte, Smith, Kemp/Markakis (one will be traded). The future RF is in the minors, so a prospect isn’t needed.
Besides, Freeman & others, around Meadows? No.
I guess you dont understand the concepts of freeman + and revolving around meadows.
1. Its not a straight 1-1 deal of freeman for meadows.
2. Freeman and some relief to pittsburgh for meadows and others. Idk the pirates farm system or what the braves need but im sure theres parts each team has to help each other out.
3. I never offered a package LOL only names i listed were freeman and meadows. See the 1st point.
4. Freeman hasnt been traded cause teams arent exactly lining up to part with 4-5 top guys and pay him what 20 mill a year. Also, very few teams have a need at 1st long term. Pretty much every team has their 1B set in coming years or guys ready to take responsibility. Makes very little sense to trade prospects and pay him more than the guy you have now or will have.
Of course he didn’t understand it. Your proposal was vague. Might as well attempted to understand what you said by reading tea leaves. I was turned off by the offer to because getting Freemen by himself would be a very expensive endeavor. So it’s tough to imagine what you meant by Freemen + others for Meadows, I suppose, + others.
As for your opinion of Freemen, you look ignorant. Yes, Freemen will make $20 million next year but that is pretty much the going rate for a productive 1b like Freemen, not mention the first three years have all been way under normal cost. If you look at what current first basemen are hitting what you would notice is, there are 4 or 5 hitting better and only 2 or 3 you would prefer to have than Freemen when you consider age and cost. Let’s just see a team attempt to pry Goldschmidt from Arizona or Rizzo from Chicago. It would be laughable.
MLBTR..I really hate your moderation system sometimes. By the time my post makes it on the thread, the topic is going to be irrelevant. I didnt say anything that violates any rules.
They have Bell that will be manning first. I personally think he should be there now but they are keeping him in AAA. The only knock is his defense but he has only been playing 1st for about a year.
1st = Josh Bell. Bull pen can be addressed with the liriano money. We got plenty of great prospects to fill the pitching rotation and the rest of our position players are great. We don’t need freeman of anyone else from the braves
They don’t need Freeman with Josh Bell ready for the show.
The last thing a small market team should do is trade a high impact type prospect that is financially controlled for 6 years. That is the business model.
Trade Meadows for Freeman sounds very Padres ala 2015
Freeman isn’t getting traded and pit has Josh Bell.
That would require Meadows to get Freeman, and even that wouldn’t be near enough to sell Freeman, as Coppy promised to chop his right arm off if he ever traded Freeman.
Bell is most likely the 1st baseman next year.
Isn’t Freeman making an AAV of ~20m from here on out? If the pirates are worried about money, why would they acquire him.
I’m not so sure Meadows gets it done for Freddie Freeman.
I think the only way Atlanta trades Freeman is a top 5 MLB player coming back. He’s not worth a Top 5, for sure, but there would have to be something there to soften the blow to the fans.
We’d be ok if say, Harper, Trout, Kershaw was coming back.
Yes, I know this isn’t going to happen. No, I’m not saying it will. Just an example
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just curious….
What is it about Freddie Freeman that makes him so hard to trade? Why would the fans be that bothered?
He’s a nice player for sure, but he’s not a superstar or anything? Is it just because of all of the other pieces the Braves have traded and the fans have had enough of it?
You would need to give up freeman and a whole lot of prospects to get kershaw, trout, or harper.
Huntington is probably looking to trade McCutchen for a bag of slightly used balls and a brand new dumpster…
Mets need to go out and get McCutchen in the offseason. Perfect replacement for Cespedes; he’s cheaper and plays center field. Adds speed and a change of scenery will help bring him back.
Cutch, Bruce and Conforto. That would work for me
He plays cf the same way cespedes plays cf
I wonder if McCutchen and Josh Bell and lower level prospects for Sonny Gray could happen. Cutch is an impending FA so Pitt would need to add prospects, and Sonny is either injured or broken, so Pitt would be a great re-launching place for him, and they’d have him for 3 seasons. Oakland would get a formerly-elite CF who they could build around or they could flip for prospects at the deadline, Cutch’s money is no issue for Oakland. Pitt has Meadows to replace Cutch.
That’s an awful lot for an ace having a sub-par year (currently on the DL). I’d say a Cutch for Gray deal straight-up (or with minor prospects involved) would make more sense. But I’m not sure if Cutch makes much sense for Oakland given he will be a FA in a few years.
If Gray is “injured or broken” why do the Pirates trade Cutch AND Bell for him? I can see Gray and McCutchen in a change-of-scenery deal, although Cutch might be a bit rich for the A’s blood, but I think the A’s would have to kick in to make that deal, not vice versa.
Cutch has been awful, costs more, and has less years of control. So while Gray has been bad and is now hurt, is it really that much worse than what Cutch currently is?
As an aide, I loved your work as Superintendent of Schools in Cohoes.
I completely forgot who you were until i saw Die Hard.
@wkkortas – I thought it was pretty clear why the Pirates need to throw in more to get him:
1. Gray costs nothing and will be very cheap for almost the next 3 years.
2. Pirates free up salary and get a very cheap rotation piece, along with Meadows also being very cheap and replacing Cutch.
3. Sonny was elite not very long ago, it would not be surprising at all to find out he’s been bad this year due to playing hurt (like all dumb jocks love to do even though it causes their team to lose). The broken part is probably like 98% due to him being hurt. Worthy risk for the Pirates, who also have the best pitching coach in the game.
At minimum they get a potentially-elite SP and $10-12M off the books.
At maximum they get an elite SP and $10-12M off the books.
That’s why Pitt needs to add in one of their best prospects in order to get Sonny Gray.
Pirates have 3 rotation arms next season that have a ceiling as high if not higher than Gray and two more that should be pretty good as well. (Cole, Taillon, Glasnow, Brault, Kuhl) Combine that with they will have Kingham and Cumpton back and Williams hanging around looking like he can make a difference as well. Even if half of the prospects bust they still have 4/5ths of the rotation pretty much set for next season.
Gray is entering an arbitration year next season. Will probably get a nice sized raise. I’m no expert at guessing arbitration but I would figure no less than $5M but probably closer to $8M next season. so the savings, yeah it is there and significant but not a crazy amount. and not $10-12M
And that’s why the Pirates won’t go after Gray at that price.
If Gray was healthy now and Bill called me for Cutch – Gray trade Straight up right now.. i would definitely consider it because he is good and costs almost nothing this season and the pirates need a pitcher to help produce a quick turn around. but hes not.
In the off season.. nope sorry would have to pass.. the pirates need just isn’t there so Gray’s value to the Pirates is much lower
Cutch still has 2 full seasons under contract after this season. He’s not an impending free agent.
Baseball-reference says he’s only under contract for 2017, 2018 is a team option.
Yes, which the team will have the choice to pick up, which is an easy decision unless he’s declared out for the 2018 season. He’s under contract for 2 years.
Cutch needs to reinvent his game, if he is not going to be a run producer then get back to basics start bunting and stealing bases he should average 20 a year but he is a lazy baserunner
Even with Cutch’s down year, it would take A LOT to pry him from the pirates this off season.
The Pirates Have meadows for sure, but he won’t be here until june/july. They also have Garcia and Barnes still in the system both who could show up in September and fill that 3rd OF spot for a few months.. i don’t see Barnes or Garcia being a starter out of spring so they’ll probably need to make a short term signing or go with Frazier. Possibly a short term MLB player in the trade itself…..?
as far as return, hard to say but IMO: would almost have to be quite the haul if it is prospects. at least two top 5 org prospects and a handful of b/c. Especially if Cutch turns it around this season.. If there are MLB players involved it would really depend on their ‘quality’
“We weren’t able to reach the financial ask’s, or chose not to” that is the key to all the Pirates woes. Cheap Managment Huntington came as close to saying it as he could while not losing his job.
In division trade that helps them and Cubs get McCutchen for Canderla Happ Hammel Fowler won’t resign he made a name as a all star for a few years to be. Hammel will mentor the 3 head Dragons there 3 young Guys plus they got Meadow waiting to move up now