4:34pm: GM Rick Hahn acknowledged that his club will not be pursuing short-term upgrades to the MLB roster, as Dan Hayes of CSN Chicago was among those to tweet. He added that the Sox will be willing to consider all other transactions.
Those comments don’t squarely paint Chicago as a seller, but certainly lean as strongly in that direction as might be expected in a public statement. Hahn bemoaned the fact that, as he put it, the team is “mired in mediocrity,” so it certainly appears that the organization is ready to shake things up.
1:20pm: The White Sox appear to have reversed course in the midst of a significant slump, as Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports that the club is now open to selling off veteran pieces this summer (Twitter link). The Sox intend to keep their rotation intact — taking Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and presumably Carson Fulmer and Carlos Rodon off the table, much to the chagrin of interested parties — and are intent on holding onto top shortstop prospect Tim Anderson as well. Other than that, however, Nightengale suggests that the rest of the roster is “in play.”
Optimistic fans will likely take the report and try to come up with ways in which the potentially selling Sox could be overwhelmed to part with Sale or Quintana, but FOX’s Ken Rosenthal emphasizes (via Twitter) that Sale won’t be moved, reporting that an unnamed team is said to have offered Chicago a “king’s ransom” for its ace within the past 48 hours, only to be met with a flat “no.” Another rival executive tells Rosenthal that teams have been asking for Quintana in trades for years, and the Sox have steadfastly refused (Twitter link).
Nightengale’s report is fairly surprising in that it suggests that Sox will at least entertain the notion of trading outfielder Adam Eaton, who has become one of baseball’s biggest bargains thanks to his elite all-around play and affordable contract. (I’d have pegged him to be among the “untouchable” group.) Eaton is hitting .271/.353/.393 with five homers, 11 steals and exceptional defense in right field, and he’s guaranteed just $21MM through the 2019 season (plus two options valued at $9.5MM and $10.5MM for the 2020 and 2021 campaigns). FanRag’s Jon Heyman reported earlier this morning that the Sox have already been receiving calls on Eaton, although I have to imagine that the asking price on him would be exorbitant.
Slugging first baseman Jose Abreu, too, would be a consideration under such criteria. He’s had a bit of a down season overall, slashing .266/.323/.423 but has turned things around at the plate dating back to June 1 (.299/.349/.478). He’s owed $38.04MM through the end of the 2019 season, including the remainder of this year’s salary, though his contract allows him to opt into arbitration following the 2016 season if he wishes.
Heyman also reported this morning that closer David Robertson is receiving quite a bit of attention on the trade market as clubs look to acquire impact relievers. While Robertson’s 4.03 ERA on this season is a departure from his normal excellence, he’s been clobbered for 10 of his 17 earned runs in just two of his 37 appearances this season but has been largely effective outside of those hiccups. He’s owed $29.45MM through the end of the 2018 season and is still averaging 10.7 strikeouts per nine innings, though he’s also averaging 4.9 walks in that same stretch as well. Both Nate Jones and Dan Jennings are having strong seasons and come with three-plus years affordable control (Jones via a three-year, $8MM extension with a pair of club options and Jennings via arbitration). Jones’ strong season and considerable control could make him tough to surrender, though.
Beyond those long-term assets, the South Siders have several other short-term and mid-term assets that are controllable through the end of the 2017 campaign as well as a few rentals. Todd Frazier, Brett Lawrie, Melky Cabrera and Zach Duke are each free agents at the end of the 2017 season, while Dioner Navarro, Alex Avila and Justin Morneau are free agents following the current season. Frazier is tied for the Major League lead with 28 homers and is due an arbitration raise on his $8.25MM salary, while Lawrie has been about league-average at the plate and will get a bump from his $4.125MM salary. Cabrera has quietly been quite solid at the plate dating back to June 1 of last season, hitting .294/.338/.456 with 20 homers in 827 plate appearances, but the remaining $20.66MM on his deal is fairly steep. Duke is owed about $7.52MM from now through the end of his own contract and has logged a 2.97 ERA with 10.5 K/9, 3.8 BB/9 and a 58.1 percent ground-ball rate this year.
The change in course is a fairly surprising turn of events for a White Sox team that just last month proactively sprung to add James Shields in a trade with the Padres (Shields has righted the ship after a pair of early implosions with Chicago) and also added Justin Morneau while shedding Jimmy Rollins to open shortstop for Anderson. That series of win-now moves hasn’t changed the club’s fortunes, though, leading to a potentially uncharacteristic sell-off from a Sox club that is typically loath to do so. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf has long been said to be against such sales, and indeed, the Sox chose to hold onto the majority of their pieces last summer in spite of an opportunity to ship out veteran pieces, most notably Jeff Samardzija.
It remains, of course, far from clear that the Sox will clean house in any way. The very fact that they’re insistent in holding onto Sale, Quintana, etc. suggests they intend to aim for better results as soon as the 2017 season. As such, major dealings shouldn’t necessarily be the expectation, but the very fact that the Sox are open to the idea represents a rather significant philosophical change from where the team stood four to six weeks ago.
nikogarcia
In layman’s terms, the white sox are approaching this deadline the same way they have every other year
Strauss
Welcome o Williams world of the Chicago White Sox. All failures and no successes. Every year now they are under .500 because he hired a yes man to manage, Ventura, and he cannot develop young position players. If Anderson pans out , he’ll be the first homegrown not pitcher to start in 5-10 years. The scout stuff I is a joke. Look at what they signed in the off season, Latos, Fields, Rollins, Sands,Sanchez, Hairston. It’s a joke. Thanks Williams for another wasted year. Too bad Reinsdorfs gone. I think he’d fire you now!
wsox05
Wow, guy, not even sure what to say to this.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Better not get him started. Just…walk…away
mlb_91
WILLIAMS AND VENTURA NEED TO GO HIRE GARDENHIRE AS UR MANAGER AND HIRE SOMEONE ELSE LIKE GILLICK FOR GM
bronxbombers
Wrong Adam Eaton link attached
CubsFanJack
I wonder What Jose Abreu’s value would be. I’d think that if available, he’d instantly become the best bat on the market by far, with cargo being second but preferable for teams set at 1st and/or DH. But there’s no clear indication both of those guys are available which should drive up the price for guys like Reddick or Danny Valencia from the As, who need to strike while the iron is hot rather than hold out for the best deal.
tpchristy
In what world is Abreu a better bat “by far” than CarGo? Gonzalez is better than Abreu in literally every statistical category… by a long shot in most of them.
Priggs89
Yes, he has been better this year (although Abreu has been hitting pretty well recently after an AWFUL start). That being said, I’d be very careful with CarGo. Those home/road splits are no joke.
strike4
How in the world does a manager allow its closer to give up 10 ER in just 2 appearances??? Is Ventura and Ausmus in the same category. Sheesh!
stymeedone
Yes, yes they are. …sigh…
Priggs89
I think the worst part is that the first blowup wasn’t even a save situation… They were up 7-1 against the Royals, and the genius manager decided it’d be a good time to pitch him. He let Robertson give up 6 runs before getting the boot. Robin decided to pitch him again in a non-save situation a couple weeks later when they were down 7-0 to the Nats, and he gave up 3 runs while getting only 1 out. Then the last blowup was a couple days ago when he gave up 4 runs while only getting 2 outs in a 4-3 loss. Keep in mind that Chris Sale had a 1 hitter going and only had thrown 100 pitches. Outside of those 3 games, which you could VERY EASILY argue that he shouldn’t have been in, he’s only given up 4 runs on the year.
The takeaway from this – Robin Ventura doesn’t know what he’s doing.
zan4pm
The ChiSox are run so poorly. They really don’t realize that they are in baseball hell. They’ve wasted so many bullets of Chris Sale that the only way to really turn this around will be to move him for a king’s ransom. Too bad they are stuck in this ideology that they will be able to rebuild this around him before he’s overused and no longer the ace of the staff. If they took the mentality that Rodon/Fulmer/Quintana are their 1-3 for the next few years and moved Sale for many top level prospects, they could be back by 2018.
Instead, they will be “willing to part” with the underperforming veteran bats that got them into this baseball hell yet again and hope to fleece someone….which they won’t.
bravesred 2
Rosenthal says that they were offered a “king’s ransom” and turned it down.
Dumpster Divin Theo
But to be fair, there are perennially 5-8 teams in baseball hell in the AL due to parity. Not as clear the case of the NL, where the top 4 teams can feast on the 6 teams that are in the tank.
MrDankYankeeMemes
I bet the Dodgers were the ones to offer for Sale they’re really desperate
jaysfan77
I guess Red Sox
Niekro
Why would teams be interested in Morneau wasn’t he a free agent half the season? Has he gotten hot or something?
krillin
I think he was hurt
Ray Ray
He was a FA because he was hurt. Now he is proven healthy and a very good veteran bat.
Niekro
Weird that he would settle for a 1 million dollar deal while still injured, obviously not a lot of teams were interested, for money alone don’t see why they would now shell out prospects for him.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Even stranger to see Morneau in a Sox uniform. Don’t know how the locals react when he suits up for the first time this wknd.
CubsFanJack
I think Morneau is a much better August (late) trade candidate, because if he reestablishes some value, a lot of teams could be interested, especially if an injury happens to a contenders 1B or DH down the stretch.
Ravens_Last_Place
Chris Sale to Boston or Pittsburgh. He wants to win and could win now in either place. Both teams have the ammo needed to get him. Pittsburgh could package Liriano, Locke, Melancon and Kuhl. 2 proven starters, the best closer in MLB, and an MLB ready youngster who will be solid. No way would the Pirates ever considering trading Cole, Tallion, Glasnow, Kingham, Meadows, Bell, or any other top guys though. And certainly not any young stars like Marte or Polanco. The package I mentioned should easily pry Sale. Boston could offer an even more enticing one though.
batman
As a pirates fan, theres no way that package comes close to landing Sale.
bravesred 2
Why would ChiSox do that? Take on 3 expensive pitchers and what could be the Pirates #4 pitcher for one of the best pitchers in all of baseball.
Sam.rhodes16
A Pirates package for Sale starts with Meadows AND Bell and then adds two high-upside SP to get ChiSox not to hang up immediately.
The package you suggested was laughably, pathetically weak.
Ravens_Last_Place
Your idea is laughable. You must have no idea how good Meadows and Bell are. They have mega star potential. The White Sox better get about 7 more Chris Sales if they think they can pry those two away. Pirates would be completely nuts to do that!
firstbleed
‘Pittsburgh could package Liriano, Locke, Melancon and Kuhl. ‘
Seriously? Liriano has 1 year left on his contract, Locke is at best 5th starter, Melancon is a Free Agent at the end of the year and Kuhl is a throw in – all for a top of the rotation Ace?
If PIT wants Sale they would start with Glasnow/Tallion + Meadows…
Ravens_Last_Place
lol Glasnow and Tallion have higher ceilings than Sale ever had. Meadows could step in right now and instantly be better than any White Sox in recent memory. So no, the Pirates would laugh and hang up the phone.
aff10
So… homer or troll?
wsox05
You are just so wrong with this post. You need to stop posting on here.
Ravens_Last_Place
Why? Because I know more than you do about baseball? Sale is not THAT good. He really isn’t. He’s not a dominant, perennial Cy Young threat. But he’s all star level.
ChiSoxCity
The ***k outta here with that *******t!
davidcoonce74
Chris Sale’s finishes in the Cy Young voting the last four seasons: 6th, 5th, 3rd and 4th. So he is, indeed a perennial CY candidate.
But I also think you’re trolling.
Bruin1012
No he is just the most valuable commodity in Baseball one of the top two or three pitchers and in an extremely team friendly contract. Stop it Pittsburgh would have to raid it’s farm to have a shot at Sale. I am trying to help you understand how valuable Sale is because you clearly don’t understand.
Bluesman
I’ve been a diehard Indians fan for over 50 years, and yes, Chris Sale IS THAT GOOD! He’s probably gonna win the Cy Young, for crying out loud!Every team in MLB would LOVE to pry Sale from the pale hose for as little as YOU seem to think he’s worth! You sir are no WS fan!
Steven P.
Ravens_last_place your offer is moronic at best
I don’t see the Pirates going all in on a major trade like Sale or Quintana though
sfu13
Why would the Sox want Liriano back? He sucks. Liriano, Locke, Melancon and Kuhl? Ha, that package MIGHT get you James Shields.
Cole, Tallion, Glasnow, Kingham, Meadows, Bell-TWO of those guys to start for a package around Quintana, three+ two more prospects out of Pitt’s Top 30 to even discuss Sale. Period.
Ravens_Last_Place
lol you gotta be kidding! Sale isn’t worth 1 top Pirates prospect. Or 1 top Red Sox prospect. Maybe some one like Dylan Bundy from BAL. a former top guy who fell back. His ceiling is still higher than Sale’s ever will be but he may not reach it. But maybe he will?
Bluesman
Indians fan here again, just joined this site today. Anyway, I wish YOU were the GM for the WS, so the Tribe could STEAL Sale to add to their already impressive starting rotation! What did Sale do to YOU to rate such a low opinion of his immense talents?!? Give it up man, you’re embarrassing yourself!
Bruin1012
Wow that is fantasy let me guess you are a Pirates fan just a hunch.
Ravens_Last_Place
No I am not. I don’t really have a fav team. Just love baseball.
Bruin1012
And clearly don’t understand it.
Priggs89
By far the worst trade proposal I’ve ever seen for Chris Sale. I’d rather take Dan Vogelbach straight up. That is just embarrassingly bad.
adshadbolt
What contending team needs a first baseman or a DH in MIA could maybe use abreu but they don’t have the prospects to acquire him and they have bour, the Mets wont spend the prospects, Giants maybe if they put belt in the outfield which he hates doing, if Boston could get the white sox to take Hanley as part of the deal but why would the white sox want that, Houston but they just got gurreil and have reed and others. So I really don’t see any where for abreu to go.
adshadbolt
Also to big of a contract and they wouldn’t give up the prospects for Pittsburgh, cardinals wouldn’t give up the prospects
Priggs89
3 years at roughly $13 mil per is too big of a contract for a guy with a career OPS of .867? I think every single GM in the league would disagree with that statement. The prospect part may be true, but the money part is extremely far away from being accurate.
batman
The Pirates should be all over a reunion with the Duke. They could really use another lefty in that pen besides Watson (excluding Niese, who needs to go)
sfu13
As a Sox fan, I doubt Duke would cost much. Maybe 2 organizational fillers from Pitt?
agentx
Duke would fetch less than Montgomery did given the latter’s add’l years of control, but not THAT much less. Think a little bigger than org filler.
cardsfan85 2
The Cardinals should go after Frazier to play 3B and have Carp at 2B when he comes back and then flip Wong for a SP
cardsfan85 2
Cardinals should trade for Frazier and flip Wong for a SP
Ravens_Last_Place
Yeah! The guy who was demoted easier in the year for stinking it up can be flipped for a starting pitcher that can help a team make the playoffs. Good idea.
tpchristy
Right, then they could trade Grichuk to the Dodgers for Kershaw and all would be solved in St. Louis.
frankthetank1985
What would it take for the mets to land Frazier. I think he is a little over rated but he is the best option out there for third base. Mets gave up a lot last year so one is to hope they don’t completely deplete their system but would a deal for wheeler work? Or maybe straight up for one of their better infield prospects, Gavin c, Rosario, or dilson h?
DeadliestCatch
A kings ransom for sale and they said no?
Depending what was offered should fire the GM immediately.
I mean if the dodgers came at you with de leon, urias, bellinger, pederson, montas, verdungo, johnson, and others and you said no without haggling should be gone ASAP.
Kayrall
Hahn very well could have been offered a king’s ransom, but any deal for Sale would have to be approved by Williams and Reinsdorf. I can’t imaging either giving Hahn the go ahead.
sfu13
My guess it was from Boston as DD loves dumping prospects. And “King’s ransom” just may mean they offered Moncada straight up, or Moncada+Swihart. As talented as Moncada is, I can see the Sox turning it down. Why trade Sale only to get a package where you can hope one of the guys becomes half of what Sale is? Doesn’t make sense. And yes, I know Moncada isn’t a pitcher.
stymeedone
Swisher is included in as many trade proposals as Markakis is. Too bad he was Untouchable right up until everyone saw he was over-rated. Now it’s too late..
Priggs89
This happens literally ALL the time. I’ve got a bad feeling that Gallo will be next in line.
Steven P.
Moncada alone comes nowhere close to landing Sale
It would have to be Moncada + other very significant prospects
A'sfaninUK
“Kings Ransom” in terms of Boston prospects, to me, says “Moncada, Benintendi, Devers & one more”.
chive
I wonder if the sox and indians could line up for a todd frazier trade.
A'sfaninUK
Frazier for Frazier? Wouldn’t that be like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters?
baseball10
They need to clean house. If they arent willing to deal Sale (they should) then its going to take them a while. I would deal Abreu in a heartbeat. The guy lacks the passion it takes to win, just an outsiders view. Maybe a change of scenery will light a fire under him but hes no team leader for a team thats seems to lack them
wsox05
A passion to win? That is the dumbest thing ever. And besides how do you know anything like that about him?
baseball10
He has a no care attitude. When u have guys like him and Melky that are just in it for the money you aren’t going to have good teams. You ever wonder why teams like Royals and Giants win??? Watch their guys play. Whitesux fans just as clueless as their front office
Dumpster Divin Theo
That is just….so wrong. Jose has been a gamer from the get-go, and in his rookie season, expressed a keen desire to assume a leadership role by proactively attempting to get past the language barrier. In it for the money? He took less than market value because he liked the environment in Chicago in a no-drama negotiation. Your outsiders’ view sounds like the perspective of some Fantasy player who only knows him from somewhat disappointing first half numbers.
Priggs89
Congratulations on making the dumbest comment of the day. And that says A LOT after reading Ravens_Last_Place’s trade proposal. Good work.
junkyard
How much for Shields?
junkyard
The Cubs may want him because he played for Good Ole Joe.
CubsFanJack
We will send you a bucket of baseballs, contingent upon y’all eating all of his salary and buying theo dinner.
bsteady powers
No.
Priggs89
I don’t think he’ll cost very much, but it won’t be as cheap as most people probably think. He seems to have figured something out after a few god awful performances in a row. He has a 2.43 ERA in his last 5 starts after those mega-blowups. It’ll take someone with a little bit of talent to get him, not just an organizational filler most likely.
elcondorworldchamp
The “king’s ransom” was, in fact, Dan Vogelbach.
Mikel Grady
Ha ha . Love it .
braves4life1
Chi Sox Get : Whalen, Ellis, and Rio Ruiz
Braves Get: Todd Frazier
bravesfan1234
Why? Why in the world would the Braves need Frazier? You’re the worst at proposing trades.
braves4life1
Why not? Would you rather the Braves just sit around and twirl their thumbs and just sit on prospects? Use them to make your team better.
schellis 2
Much like the Reds the Braves are years away from competing. They’d have to trade more then the White Sox/Dodgers game the Reds to get Frazier, I think Jocketty signed off the Frazier/Chapman deals just so Dick Williams would look worse then him. By the time the Braves were getting back to good Frazier would either be gone or near gone.
bravesfan1234
Because he’ll be a free agent before the Braves are competitive again. That’s why not.
braves4life1
Then how about this, you resign him. You act like you are afraid to make the TEAM better
bravesfan1234
You must be 12 or something. This is a complete rebuild. There is no quick fix. Trading away prospects for guys like Frazier will only prolong the process. You get better by developing your players on the farm.
bsteady powers
Todd Frazier is the opposite of what the Braves are looking for. Geez, do u think before u type?
bsteady powers
Braves want to be good in 2 years. Not now. Frazier is fading. Only good for HR’s. He’s more like a final piece of you need a DH with some pop.
cjb
I’ve been a Braves fan all my life. Yes, it sucks watching them lose. Fortunately, it hasn’t happened a lot in the past 20 years. The rebuild is necessary. With that said….. please don’t embarrass us Braves fans with ridiculous trades that are pointless. This is why we get made fun of on these threads.
max l
Not sure how good Eaton is in CF, but he’d look good in Washington.
lilojbone
He is not a cf. In my opinion, he is not even an average CF. He is a corner outfielder.
casorgreener
3-4 WAR last year as a CF is not average
csamson11
I’m assuming he meant defensively, as I read somewhere that he was below average (barely) defensively in center, but rated very highly in right.
Priggs89
He’s a pretty well above average CF’er. He was a 3.9 WAR player last year despite a super down year on defense, and he was a 5.2 WAR player his first year with the Sox as a full time CF’er (including a 1.8 dWAR). Yes, he had a miserable year as a defensive CF’er last year (every player on the team had a miserable year on defense last year), but he’s nowhere near as bad as that. He’s a very capable CF’er on defense with a great bat for the position. That’s well above average (even if his defense really is that poor, which I HIGHLY doubt).
HalosFan
You never watched him play CF then. He’s an awful CF. great RF. Odd but it’s the truth. Gotta love people that act like they have a clue.
Priggs89
I’ve seen him play CF many times. I’m assuming you haven’t outside of last year, which was awful for the entire team.
Also, when I say “pretty well above average CF’er,” that includes his bat, which profiles extremely well in CF. His defense in CF is definitely worse than it is in RF, but it’s not as bad as you’re trying to make it seem (again, outside of last year).
braves4life1
Its time for the Braves to package some prospects and go get some veteran bats. Todd Frazier
stymeedone
You are now repeating yourself.
schellis 2
Washington was the first place I thought of for a Eaton landing spot as well. I think he’s average at best in CF, still likely worlds better then the group the Nationals have been running out there this year though. Either Eaton would play CF or they’d move Harper back there.
Priggs89
He’s better than “average at best in CF.” The whole team was a disaster on defense last year (yes, Robin Ventura is a horrible manager). The year before he nearly had a dWAR of 2. And his bat plays extremely well in CF. He’d be a great addition in Washington if the Sox wanted to sell (which I have my doubts).
steelerbravenation
Why would a last place team trade for Frazier for a year and a half ? Could just wait til he is a free agent and make him an offer he can’t refuse.
braves4life1
You got get Frazier and make him an offer. I’m for 1 ready to see my boys get out of LAST place.
southi
So you would take a step backwards just to get out of last place???
Really?
The season is lost no matter what. I’d rather be in last place this season that even mediocre. I’m glad that Coppy has more sense than to jeopardize some of the youngsters for a player like Frazier.
marinerslife24
I’m just wondering the sox just played Seattle and it said past 48 hours a”kings ransom” Felix was just taken Off dl Felix and more for sale was the trade
braves4life1
According to Braves1234, he must enjoy sitting in LAST place along side the Halos and Rockies. Atlanta has some of the best prospects in baseball, roll the dice, act like you have a pair and use them
bravesfan1234
Dude, don’t even try calling me out when you make moronic trade proposals in every single thread that makes Braves fans look stupid. It’s honestly getting a little old. I’m not even sure that you’re not some troll deliberately trying to make Braves fans look bad considering you apparently don’t even know the names of some of our top prospects.
braves4life1
You need to be called out. Act like u have a pair and want to make the Braves better. The Braves are heading into a new stadium in 2017 and you are happy with the product that is on the field??? Geez!!
raef715
there is a difference between having a pair and being a moron.
braves4life1
Then lets go draft another 4 or 5 pitchers and go stock pile them with the other 20. The Braves need some help offensively. How are you going to sell tickets in a new stadium unless you give the fans something to come see
chesteraarthur
They aren’t going to be good in 2017 and probably not 2018 either. Mortgaging the future to be mediocre for your new stadium isn’t a good plan.
stymeedone
Just by having a new stadium, they will sell more tickets.
TheGreatHambino
bravesfan1234 and chesteraarthur are right; the Braves shouldn’t mortgage the future for short-term payoffs like Frazier, as powerful as he can be. That is, unless you want to turn into the Padres v.2.0.
The earliest we will legitimately compete again is 2018, and that’s if enough prospects pan out AND we make some big moves via FA and/or trades. I don’t like seeing them struggle now either but there’s not enough available on the trade market or FA this year for us to sacrifice the top talent in the system.
Next year’s offseason has a handful of big time free agents, and who knows what the trade market will be like then too. I’d rather wait another year to see what we have in our prospects (most of which are very young and too early to tell which will be worth keeping vs dangling elsewhere) and then find better upgrades for 2018 or 2019, the most realistic time frame to BEGIN competing again.
And by competing, I mean not just making the playoffs but actually making a run at a title. We want to build a team that will succeed for a long time and not just in the near future. Besides, the rest of the division is too strong for us right now, even if we added a power bat and top pitcher we’d still probably only be in third place at best. Again, they’d basically turn into the Padres from the last few years where they traded for top guys at the time like Kemp, Kimbrel, Shields, etc and yet couldn’t get close to the top teams in that division, and I’d say the NL East is tougher than NL West right now, overall. There’s a reason why teams like the Cubs and Mets began competing after years of struggling–they took their time to develop big prospects and then only went after big time FA or trades when they realistically figured they could compete in their environment.
We’re beginning to turn the corner on this tear-down/complete rebuild, and it’s worked out well so far as far as prospects go (not to mention we’ll be getting another top pick next draft). However it’s to early to start giving up on many of them to get aging, above average players. The time to strike will be in another year or two.
DeadliestCatch
Except the padres didnt really hurt prellers plan of rebuilding and contending come 2019 by trading away prospects that aren’t doing much and replacing them with players that will be ready by 2018 2019 2020.
They didnt mortgage the future because majority of pieces they gave up dont even look like theyll stay with their new team long term. In fact, a couple have been so bad the team gave up on them already.
TheGreatHambino
Not a perfect example, but the point is that just because you trade prospects for good players doesn’t mean you’re suddenly competitive (also ask the Diamondbacks), especially when you need multiple pieces like the Braves do. Besides, it’s tricky to make a 1-1 comparison between what the Padres gave up for said players (who now in retrospect don’t seem as crucial to their rebuild plan) with what the Braves may sell in the future. Had the prospects San Diego gave up turned out to be valuable pieces to them, they might have delayed their window of opportunity a few years or shortened the time to be competitive by giving up controllable assets. We don’t know yet if the top Braves prospects will pan out to be replacement level, solid everyday guys, all-stars or just bust, but the front office is wisely being cautious about giving up a potential star, a la Adam Wainwright as part of the deal for JD Drew, when they sense Atlanta is still a few years from contention.
Also, “braves4life1” seemed impatient enough to want to trade some of their bigger prospects right now. Atlanta has one of the best (if not the best) farm system right now (and it’s likely going to strengthen after next year’s draft), but most of the high-ceiling prospects are at least 2-3 years away from contributing consistently at the ML level. The front office doesn’t need to make any bold moves yet.
casorgreener
I’d trade Quintana for Gallo and Profar. Maybe throw in Brett Lawrie
wsox05
Lawrie has no place in Texas. It would take Profar, Gallo and more for Quintana. But that is the start of a deal I’d make. Duke could be added by the White Sox to make the deal better for the Rangers. Would you do this deal
Rangers get:
Jose Quintana SP
Zach Duke RP
Rangers get:
Jurickson Profar 2B
Joey Gallo 3B
Luis Ortiz SP
Josh Morgan SS/3B
Travis Demeritte 2B/OF
Ronald Guzman 1B
sportingdissent
That deal would probably be enough if the White Sox wanted to deal Quintana. For some reason, they do not.
Steven P.
That is a deal the White Sox would have to consider that seems reasonable
I’m not sure the rangers would want to deal that many prospects, but the quality of prospects would have to be equal or greater than in that deal
wsox05
Yeah you really could argue that more quality would need to be added. Now that I sit back and look at it. Quintana is worth a ton and that deal is very similar to what the Rangers gave up for Hamels. Quintana is a lot more valuable than Hamels in a better trade market now.
sportingdissent
That really is a ton though. Gallo and Profar plus extras is a top flight package. You might get more for Quintana, but you also might not. He’s been great and he’s got a great contract…but stuff wise he isn’t a world beater. Guys like him regress real quick. If this is on the table, with where the White Sox are, they’d be stupid not to take it.
Granted, the White Sox may be stupid enough not to take it.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Stuff wise he isn’t a world beater? Guys like him regress? He’s been consistent and improving every year over a five year period. Consistent top 10 in WAR. Ever consider flipping through something useful like Fangraphs, rather than staring at his W-L record on the back of his baseball card?
Priggs89
Quintana is a top flight pitcher on a very team friendly contract. You have to keep in mind A) that the Sox don’t need to trade him, and B) if they wanted to, their would be a LOT of bidders.
sportingdissent
Stuff wise. As in not the stats, but the quality of his pitches.
Quintana is a guy who doesn’t throw hard and doesn’t have plus breaking stuff. He’s got good command and better deception. He’s wiley and great…right now. But as the physical skills diminish in his late 20’s early 30s, he’s significantly more likely to fall off a cliff than, say, a guy with phenomenal stuff that just becomes good.
Priggs89
I think you could argue the exact opposite, actually… Guys like Quintana that don’t have elite stuff (still good stuff) but know how to pitch REALLY WELL can figure it out a lot easier when they lose a little velo than someone that starts losing their phenomenal stuff… A lot of those guys with phenomenal stuff aren’t really great pitchers and struggle when that stuff starts to go; they rely on their “stuff.”
When that combo of phenomenal stuff and knowing how to pitch come together, you get players like Kershaw and Sale, which are few and far between.
casorgreener
we agree on a start at least. I just threw in Brett Lawrie to help offset Profar’s versatility as a backup
wsox05
OK that makes sense. I see that.
Matt Galvin
Do you mean White Sox get.
Texas could use Jose or Justin.
The Royals could use Eaton,Frazier.
nielsenkp
You’re an absolute homer. Profar+Gallo+Ortiz+Demeritte is the offer you’d get for Sale, not Quintana.
Bruin1012
And the White Sox would flat turn that down for Sale.
BadCo
Yeah gotta be Sale for that amount
Bruin1012
And that would not be enough for Sale.
Priggs89
Add in Brinson and you might get the Sox to listen on Sale, but I still highly doubt it.
Steven P.
Not enough for Sale
White Sox would flat out turn that offer down
You have to rememebr the Sox won’t trade Sale unless it is an absolute win for them and their future
Sale nets you at least 3 top 75 prospects + another 2 very good prospects at a minumum
steelerbravenation
Come Sept bring up Albies, Swanson & Ruiz. See what they look like the last month of the season. I wanna hear what catchers we are looking at.
4 game winning streak maybe the Yankees trying to make a move for Tehran and will be dangling Sanchez + other prospects.
chesteraarthur
I really don’t understand why they refuse to admit that the team isn’t a contender going forward. 3 or 4 really good players and a bunch of expensive below average players does not a good team make.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Large part of it has to do with the parity of the AL central and the AL wild card generally, where 5-10 teams can delude themselves into thinking they’re in it. Being in middle of the road purgatory also means perennial contention.. Maddening that the Sox always seem to show flashes of playing well against the top contenders, but then failing abysmally within their division. Thinking this could be less about natural talent, and as much about advance scouting. Teams that play the Sox day-in, day-out, in the AL central seem to have their number. Can’t really pin their mediocrity on the likes of Miggy Gonzalez, Sanchez and JB Shuck. Every team is laden down with their journeymen
triberulz
White Sox send Robertson + cash to Texas for Brinson, Gallo & Chi Chi. Texas needs a closer to move their other relievers back to set-up & middle relief. Chicago could add Morneau due to Fielder’s injury.
chesteraarthur
You have a poor sense of asset value.
Steven P.
ignore this troll
Priggs89
DEAL
lilojbone
If the White Sox have any expectations of making it to the playoffs, I am convinced the most important move this organization has to make is kicking Kenny Williams to the curve! The past three season, the White Sox have underperformed and had to look for players outside the organization because the Sox’s farm system was paragon of poor. This occurred under Kenny. Insanity is continously doing the same thing hoping to expect a different outcome. How can the Sox make an effort to compete if the organization’s president is insane. Once he is gone, maybe the scouts can also be shown the door.
Priggs89
I’d start with Robin being the first out the door (with Kenny Williams following closely behind).
Kayrall
That’s definitely an overpay on Texas’s part. JoseQ is good, but this is just silly.
Priggs89
Jose is better than “good,” and he’s on a super team friendly deal. He’ll bring back one heck of a package if they decide to move him, which they probably won’t.
baseball lifer
Sale and Duke to Texas in exchange for Profar and Gallo?
Dumpster Divin Theo
What? No, no no.
Bruin1012
That’s another funny one not even close for Sale
nielsenkp
Bruin, you really overvalue Sale. 3 top 50 prospects + 3 other B+/C specs isn’t enough?
Bruin1012
Sale is arguably the most valuable commodity in all of Baseball when you combine how good he is and how team friendly his contract is. He is almost not tradable because what you would have to get for that valuable of an asset is something other teams aren’t willing to give up. I think you undervalue Sale as a baseball commodity. I am Red Sox fan and I don’t think hey would take Moncada, Benentendi, Devers plus for Sale.
Priggs89
And Brinson, Tate, Ortiz, and Taveras?
Bruin1012
Look I think that the Rangers, Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox etc.. Could put together a package for Sale but it would be really crazy package and would probably hurt them in the long run. Yes if Texas was doing a five for one and I was the White Sox GM I would do it but clearly they don’t seem to be of that mindset. Sale would clearly turn he tables for Texas who already has a very good team into the favorites to win the World Series.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Wouldn’t be such a bad idea to part with Eaton. He’s toolsy, but also tooly. Take his grindy and awkward self out of town. Of all the vets laid out, would like to see them hang on to Frazier, who’s finally solidified the hot corner and has a role as a clubhouse vet. Don’t think a radical revamp is required, the system has improved considerably, albeit from quite a dump due to poor drafting/development, particularly position players. I say keep the staff in place and trade the other vet parts.
lilojbone
I give credit where credit is due but the farm system has improved under Hanh. Unfortunately, it takes time.
Dumpster Divin Theo
They’ve had a knack for drafting and developing pitchers, but have had some spectacular disappointments with the likes of Beckham and Dayan the tank. International scouting has improved under Marco Paddy and Rick has thankfully detoured from Kenny’s disastrous policy of going for toolsy football player types or low ceiling college players who were easy (and eager) to sign. But you’re absolutely right, it takes time to improve off the dumpster fire that has been the Sox farm system.
steelerbravenation
I could see a team like the Giants making a push for Eaton. Maybe Robertson too.
BadCo
Giant injuries make them need both especially in the pen
Ekostuke
Yes yes and yes
southi
Does anyone else beside me feel that the main reason the Rangers haven’t brought up Gallo is that they realize he isn’t playing very well right now and if brought up his weaknesses will be exposed and drive down his potential value?
I could easily see the Rangers trying to center a deal around Gallo to acquire Frazier for first base (and yes he has played a lot of first in the past) or Sale to turn around their pitching woes.
Priggs89
I get the same exact feeling. I don’t think he’s going to be anywhere near as good as his prospect ranking. Epic power, but he struggles making contact, which will be exposed in the majors. If he was as good as advertised, there would be no reason to have him sitting in the minors this long, especially with the Fielder injury.
That being said, I’d absolutely take a chance on him for a team like the White Sox. I wouldn’t take him as a centerpiece in a Sale/Quintana deal (way too much downside and too far from a sure thing), but I’d take a chance on him in a different deal.
nielsenkp
That’s not why. He simply has no place in the line up. He’s also been a lot better in AAA recently. Striking out less and walking a lot more.
Priggs89
Like I’ve already said, I have my doubts about him too, but if he can’t figure out how to play an adequate first base with Fielder out, I strongly feel like the Rangers have their doubts as well.
baseball lifer
Gallo hit another 3 run HR tonight. He has not been brought up because the Rangers don’t have AB’s for him. Profar is now getting the Prince/Choo AB’s
Priggs89
If they thought he was as good as his prospect ranking suggests, I think they’d find a way to make room for him on the big club.
Ekostuke
No that’s crazy
csamson11
I wouldn’t mind the Cubs making a run at Nate Jones, though who knows if the ChiSox would trade with them while Williams is running the show.
afenton530
All of the starters will be controllable through 2018, correct? I think their best option is to keep the rotation, do a minor rebuild, and splurge in the strong 2018 FA class
bsteady powers
A kings ransom? Sale is great. But he’s not winning you any championships. If you get offered 5 or 6 really good players( what I consider a kings rasa son) you take it
tigers1968
The AL playoff team with best prospects AND most pitching needs is the Astros. Robertson is too much money for a rebuilding team. My idea is Sale and Robertson to the Astros. These two give the Astros a chance to win it all. Start with Bregman and Preston Tucker and Kyle Tucker. Add a decent Astro SP prospect. .
Steven P.
Bregman, Preston Tucker and Kyle Tucker is a horrible trade offer for Sale and Robertson man
Sale alone is worth SIGNIFICANTLY more than those players. Bregman would headline any deal, but the Astros would be looking at having to give up way more
Ravens_Last_Place
Abreu, Sale, Frazier to Red Sox for Sandoval, Hanley, Kimbrel and Porcello. White Sox get back MLB level talent and the Red Sox get Sale and Frazier, they would probably just end up flipping Abreu since he was just a throw-in to even out the trade.
stro16
Troll
CHendershott
My head is going to explode. Putting aside the fact that this is a hilariously poor proposal for the presumptive Cy Young winner, if the White Sox were to trade Sale, it would be to foster a complete rebuild. So how in the world do Panda, Hanley, Kimbrel and Porcello help that? This is a contract dump trade for Boston, not in the same universe as a package for the best pitcher in the AL with 3 years of control. Further, the White Sox have Robertson (who also may be traded since rebuilding teams don’t need closers), so they don’t need Kimbrel, and why would Boston be getting rid of him??? A Sale trade will cost minimum three of the top prospects any team can offer, period. You are naive if you think otherwise. I don’t think you are naive though, I think you’re trolling.
CHendershott
Abreu as a throw in? FFS….
Ravens_Last_Place
You’re overvaluing Sale so much it is ridiculous. Everyone here must be diehard White Sox homer fans with no concept of reality. Sale is good, no doubt. Not great. He’s not on pace to be a Hall of Famer. He hasn’t led his team to the playoffs and put up strong postseason starts. I feel bad for the guy. He wants to win, everyone knows that. Players always, well usually, say the right thing – “I want to be here, I want to bring a championship here, blah blah” but he knows he has to leave to win. Everyone does. But he’s so overvalued that probably no one will trade for him. I wouldn’t give 1 top prospect for him. Let alone multiple lol.
What’s wrong with Abreu as a throw in? He’s not that good…
Steven P.
Good, not great?
What are you smoking man?
Your trade proposal is beyond dumb, I’m not even commenting further
Bruin1012
I’m trying to figure out if you are trolling or not I really hope you are because of all the stupid trade proposals yours are in a league of their own. No I’m just going to assume trolling and move on.
comebacktrail28
Sale might be one of the top 5 most Tradable assets in all of baseball …… Just think of every playoff team and think of them adding Sale to there rotation ….. Then you get him the next 3 years for less then what Mike Leake… Ric Porcello ….. Wei-Yin Chen are making
Ravens_Last_Place
lol yeah right. Top 5?! No way dude.
Bruin1012
He’s trolling no one could be that dense
Ravens_Last_Place
You obsessed Sale fans are the most dense. Sale is the White Sox best asset, for sure. But he’s not THAT good of an asset. He really isn’t. Especially for big market teams, they care about results not payroll.
Steven P.
Ravens, you are a moron. Sale is arguably the best starting pitcher in the mlb with the potential to be dominant everytime he takes the mound.,
Name 1 starter you would rather have on the mound if you HAD to win a playoff game right now? Chris Sale is certainly in the top 3
His contract makes him an immense bargain as well
CodyGadbois
I’m just waiting for his arm to break off after one of them nasty sliders