In an appearance on Pittsburgh’s 93.7 The Fan, Pirates GM Neal Huntington admits that the winter swap of Neil Walker for Jon Niese was a mistake. “We felt that that was our best return, and it has not played out that way, and that’s a challenge,” Huntington said. “We own that. We accept that.” Reports have suggested that the Bucs are hoping to trade Niese. For the time being, he’s headed for bullpen duties, as Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review tweets. Though Huntington expressed hope that Niese can turn things around, he was unusually forthright in acknowledging the faulty trade (while also hinting at the team’s alternatives in shopping Walker). “In hindsight, maybe the two fringe prospects and trying to figure out where to reallocate the money might have been a better return,” he said.
- Niese’s former club, the Mets, surely didn’t envision a scenario where the lefty could hold appeal in 2016, but Marc Carig of Newsday writes that the club isn’t ruling out a reunion. New York is still prioritizing pen help, but seems increasingly open to the idea of bringing back a pitcher who had a good deal of success over his time with the club. The 29-year-old has been hit hard in Pittsburgh, but carried a 3.91 ERA in over 1,000 innings through eight years with the Mets.
- Braves closer Arodys Vizcaino left tonight’s action with what appeared to be an oblique issue. As MLB.com’s Mark Bowman tweets, the preliminary expectation is that he’ll require a DL stint. The injury comes at an inopportune time for Vizcaino’s trade chances, as he has already missed action of late and has struggled when he has been available. Over his last five appearances, Vizcaino has allowed five earned runs on eight hits and seven walks while recording only a pair of strikeouts. Once viewed as one of the best relief arms on the market, it seems increasingly likely that he’ll end up staying in Atlanta for the rest of the season.
- Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein says the his club will be flexible in the build-up to the deadline, as Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago reports. “I don’t think its productive to pigeonhole yourself into thinking you have needs in just one specific role as the key to improving this club,” Epstein said. “There are so many variables. Things change. The way you look now may not be the way you look in mid-September. We are going to be open-minded to adding talented players knowing that could happen.” Epstein did discuss the idea of adding a starter, though Chicago’s rotation has been quite solid. “We are always looking to add long-term starting pitching,” he noted. “Sometimes the trading deadline can be a better forum for that than the offseason. Sometimes it is not. It is important to stay focused this time of year on this year’s club. You still want to keep one eye on opportunities that can help you down the road as well.”
- The Giants are seeing solid progress on some injured players, as Andrew Baggarly of the Mercury News reports. Outfielder Hunter Pence is set to begin a rehab assignment, where he’ll test his surgically-repaired hamstring. And second baseman Joe Panik has passed a concussion test, meaning he could soon be cleared to start his own brief rehab stint. Righties Cory Gearrin and Matt Cain are also nearing readiness; the former has extended his throwing distance while the latter reached 93 pitches in an outing tonight (though he was also touched for 10 runs).
- The division-rival Dodgers also got some injury news, though it’s not necessarily all positive. Outfielder Trayce Thompson has lower back pain that could land him on the DL. Fellow outfielder Andre Ethier is now looking like he’s more likely to make it back in mid-August, about two weeks later than had been targeted, though the team is still awaiting the results of a bone scan on his injured leg before it gets a clearer picture.
- While the Dodgers think they’ll utilize prized lefty Julio Urias at the major league level again later this year, manager Dave Roberts says he’ll work at the pen at Triple-A for the time being. (Via MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM; Twitter link.) Los Angeles has been understandably cautious with his workload, and seemingly hopes to keep him fresh while also tamping down the innings for the time being.
Cain is done….. We need to find a replacement
Cain isn’t done until the 2018 buyout. I don’t see the Giants just eating around $35 million to get rid of him right now. Besides, they only need him to be a #5 guy anyway. He probably won’t even be on the postseason roster.
What’s up with SF and ruining pitchers. First Zito, then Lincecum, and now Cain. It’s like they’re good for 4-6 years then fall completely off the table. Going from bona fide aces to fringe #5 starters. I’d be itching to get out of there ASAP if I was Bumgarner, Cueto, and Samardzija, hahahahaha.
You can’t blame it on their age either. Zito was only 29 when he moved to SF and pretty much went downhill from the get go after compiling 5 or so solid seasons in Oakland before the move. Lincecum was great for only 4 years. Then he turned 28 years old and imploded. Now, Cain who put up solid-excellent seasons from 2007-2012 has pretty much sucked since he turned 28 as well. Madison Bumgarner is 26 years old. If the trend continues he has 1 more good year left in him, hahahaha. If Bumgarner implodes in 2018 I am going to laugh my ass off. It would just about confirm something eerie is going on in San Francisco.
Yeah, World Series Championships every other year, how eerie. So I can’t tell if you’re serious and stupid or joking and not funny.
KB that’s the funniest thing I heard all year
I think it’s coincidence tbh. Zito was already on the decline before he went to SF. it was pretty evident. I mean his already slow fastball dropped like 4 mph when he first got to SF.
Vizcaino (on DL) and 3rd base coach Bo Porter
For
Moncada, Betts, Benintendi, Groome, and Kopech
I think Boston needs to throw in the Green Monster for Atlanta’s new ballpark as well. It’s the least they could do.
Bo Porter = GOAT
I hope the Cubs are entertaining the idea of acquiring Matt Moore from Tampa. His stock couldn’t be any lower than it is now and shouldn’t cost much in a trade. I think if they put him in the bullpen the last 2 months of the year that not only will he see the usual 2 mph bump in velocity converted starters usually see when they move to the pen, but I think he’ll be extremely effective as a reliever. To top it all off, he’s a lefty which is what they want/need in the pen. If Boston can acquire Pomeranz who has been excellent since leaving Colorado 2 or 3 years ago for just a pitching prospect in the lower levels of the minor leagues I can only imagine how little a struggling for the last few years Matt Moore would cost. I don’t think it would take much more than pitching prospect like Pierce Johnson to acquire Moore. If he fails, oh well. It’s not like losing Pierce Johnson is the end of the world. If he pans out in the pen, genius move. Then if they want they can try him out in the rotation next year if they decline Hammel’s option. Or pick up Hammel’s option and leave Moore in the pen and maybe…… hopefully….. they have a Wade Davis-like situation on their hands. A converted starter mowing batters down out of the pen. Worth a shot, especially with the cost being so low I’d think.
Other pitchers though they should be looking into other than the Yankee pitchers we all know and are well aware of:
LHP Mike Montgomery, Mariners. The Mariners are as far back out of the WC picture as the Yankees. If the Yankees are sellers I don’t see why the Mariners wouldn’t be as well.
Stats: 56.2 IP, 47 K, 16 BB, 2.06 ERA, 1.02 WHIP
LHP Brian Flynn, Royals. Again, if the Yankees are sellers being 5 or 5.5 games back in the WC race then the Royals have to be sellers too since they are also 5 games back.
Stats: 25.1 IP, 24 K, 8 BB, 2.49 ERA, 1.07 WHIP
LHP Fernando Abad, Twins
Stats: 28.2 IP, 26 K, 13 BB, 2.83 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
LHP Taylor Rogers, Twins
Stats: 27.2 IP, 29 K, 4 BB, 2.93 ERA, 1.30 WHIP
RHP Cam Bedrosian, Angels. Yes a right handed reliever. Not what they need but his numbers are nasty this year and worth considering despite the arm he uses to pitch with
Stats: 33 IP, 36 K, 11 BB, 1.09 ERA, 1.12 WHIP
RHP Ryan Dull, A’s
Stats: 46.1 IP, 48 K, 10 BB, 1.94 ERA, 0.73 WHIP.
RHP Nate Jones, White Sox…….. I doubt they trade anyone because Reinsdorf and Kenny are delusional and likely think they are still in the hunt. That and Reinsdorf rarely trades with his most hated team due to his jealousy and inferiority complex, but I feel I should list him anyways
Stats: 40.1 IP, 42 K, 8 BB, 2.45 ERA, 0.87 WHIP
(other White Sox relievers worth noting, LHP Dan Jennings and LHP Zach Duke….. nothing awe inspiring with their stats, they aren’t bad by any means, just nothing better than Travis Wood IMO…… only value to the Cubs is the arm they throw with to go with their “just” decent stats)
RHP Hector Neris, Phillies
47 IP, 57 K, 17 BB, 2.87 ERA, 1.13 WHIP
RHP Tyler Thornberg, Brewers
35 IP, 48 K, 12 BB, 2.57 ERA, 0.97 WHIP
LHP Will Smith, Brewers
17 IP, 15 K, 5 BB, 2.12 ERA, 0.88 WHIP
LHP Ryan Buchter, Padres
38 IP, 55 K, 21 BB, 2.61 ERA, 1.16 WHIP
(LHP Brad Hand is another option in SD for the Cubs. He has decent stats but his main quality as far as the Cubs are concerned is which arm he throws with)
RHP Alex Colome, Rays
32 IP, 39 K, 11 BB, 1.69 ERA, 1.09 WHIP
I tried to focus mainly on left handed relief, but included right handers who are just having too good of seasons to ignore completely. All of these pitchers are on teams I deem as sellers, or at least should-be-sellers.
Matt Moore will cost significantly more than that
TLDR?
Matt Moore currently sucks, so the Cubs should swoop in and get him for a discounted price, and there are a good amount of relievers the Cubs should be interested in that play on fringe/non-playoff teams.
Here’s the problem the Rays don’t sell low. He’s extremely team friendly contract. Plus he’s thrown well over his last 7 games seems like he’s getting his barring after the injury.
too long? It’s mostly pitchers and their stats. It’s 700 words. You can’t read 700 words. The post by traderumors to which we are commenting on is 735 words. So I’m guessing you didn’t read that either.
That your comment is almost as long as the article itself is precisely the problem.
Espinoza is much, much more than “just a pitching prospect in the lower levels of the minor leagues.” He’s a top 20 prospect in all of baseball.
MLB.com has Espinoza as the 39th ranked prospect and Baseball Prospectus has him as their 73rd ranked prospect in baseball. So take it for what it’s worth. The only level he has had actual good seasons is in Rookie level ball…… not even Single A. In only 79.1 IP so far in single A he has a 4.54 ERA and a 1.39 WHIP…… wooo hooooo, what a stud. And last I checked, single A baseball IS among the lower levels of minor league baseball, and Espinoza is a pitching prospect. So my statement of him being, “just a pitching prospect in the lower levels of minor league baseball” is as true as it can be. He’s 18 years old. His only success has been in the Rookie League. He’s sucked in single A. He has a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go and improve to be this highly touted prospect. it wouldn’t be the first time “baseball experts” jumped the gun on a player by ranking him way too high on their lists. I don’t know how you can even rank a kid before he even reaches single A baseball. It would be like throwing a High School pitcher not assigned to a MLB team on the top 100 prospect lists. He had 58 good innings last year…… that’s it. The 76 innings he’s tossed this year…… BAD. He won’t even be ranked next year I guarantee it.
Haha Keith Law just came out with his mid season prospect rankings and he has Espinoza as the 14th ranked prospect in all of baseball. But ya he sucks and won’t even be in the top 100 by next year. Keep scouting the stat sheet
Just goes to prove how dumb these “experts” are. What about a 4.38 ERA and a 1.37 WHIP in Single A baseball warrants a ranking in the top 100. He’s only 18 years old to top it off, meaning he is likely at LEAST 3 years away from people even thinking about promoting him to MLB. Shit, the way he’s going in A ball he might not even be in triple A in 3 years. You people are acting like these rankings by nothing other than glorified fans who call themselves “experts” are actually meaningful. The only success Espinosa had so far was as a 17 year old last year in Rookie Ball in only 58 IP. How can you base a player’s worth on such a tiny sample size? At 6′ tall and only 160 lbs he isn’t exactly built for long term durability. The Cubs have a pitcher like that they had to convert to a reliever because he was a string bean as well and they had durability concerns with in Carl Edwards, 6’3″ 170 lbs. I think it is hilarious people/fans still put so much stock in a random prospect ranking list. If those lists had any truth to them then Jurickson Profar would be an AS short stop right now with the Rangers. He’s been relegated to utility player duties now. Another highly ranked pitching prospect in recent history who has sputtered out, Mark Appel. In 2014 he was ranked as high as #17 on mlb.com’s top 100 prospect list. Now look at him. He’s a bust. Everyone knows he’s a bust. He has 291 innings pitched under his belt and has a 5.04 ERA and a 1.46 WHIP, but guess what. According to MLB.com he is still ranked as their #70th prospect in the game. baseball prospectus which is supposedly a respected organization has Appel as their #64 prospect heading into the 2016 season….. a player with an ERA over 5.00 across 3 seasons…… still in the top 100 lists…….. HAHAHAHAHA. So yeah, keep putting faith in a player’s prospect ranking. Especially a player already struggling in A ball and is only 18 years old. Even if he had impressive stats he’d still be at LEAST 3 years away from making his debut, and that’s on the optimistic side. If Espinoza continues to blow dick in single A this year he shouldn’t even be ranked going into next year. But “experts” refuse to look like idiots and they will probably still have him ranked in the top 50 (which is funny because doing so makes them look like even bigger idiots…. see the Appel case for proof), because not ranking him at all, like he should be, would be admitting they busted their load prematurely on him. Espinoza might be a good pitcher in the future, who knows. But as of right now, what I see, is a pretty mediocre pitcher struggling in A ball already. The only reason I can think as to why these homer “experts” have him ranked so high is because he throws in the mid-upper 90s as an 18 year old. If San Diego does the same thing LA did with Julio Urias and force Espinoza through their system in like 1.5 years and he makes his debut as a 20 year old unpolished kid I bet he has as much “success” as Julio Urias has currently had in LA……. using the word “success” very loosely. Bottom line is pitching prospects are so hit and miss to begin with. Ranking one so high despite any real significant statistical proof or track record to warrant such a ranking, AND a pitching prospect who is so friggin young and years away from even being considered to be ML ready is ridiculous in my opinion.
Dude, the experts are good at their job. It’s tough to nail every ranking. As a Cubs fan, just look at their recent top 20 rated prospects (KB, Addy, Soler, Schwarber) pitching is a lot of factors, age, stuff, mechanics, makeup, all help decide a pitcher’s projectability. Espinoza is a solid prospect (most places a top 25) yeah, he’s young, but you can’t always look into minors stats for pitchers. They usually have awesome 1st or second offerings and teams want them to focus on a third pitch. It be like a senior in high school going against freshman. The senior can blow a fastball by the frosh, drop in some wicked breaking ball, but get killed when he throws a changeup. I don’t think you understand the dynamics or nuances of baseball. But you have heart, kid, I’ll give you that!
You sir (?) are a moron. Can I have the time back from reading your posts? Your posts are very long and boring and you honestly know very little however feel you are very educated about MLB trade value and prospecting. Are you a scout? No you’re probably an asst store manager at JC Penney and was the back up shortstop on your JV team.
The scouting sheets are done off of projections and this guy has the projections to be a top of the rotation arm he throws an easy 95 with clean mechanics and good offspeed offerings and he’s 18
Your logic is extremely flawed in terms of Yankees and Royals. The Yankees are beyond a flawed roster so their position in the standings has no barring on the roster. Number two the thin winter market will continue to make it a seller market for pitching. Many of the names on that list have significant control making them extremely valuable point being you can’t judge one trade assuming it will set the market.
Pomeranz has a small sample size as a successful SP. So that will be an outlier just as Miller was. Right off the bat you can cross Dull, smith, jones, Montgomery, colome, and to and extent Butcher unless their is a willingness to part with a bigger package. Moore is cheap at 5 mill next year. So why would they part with him unless it’s an interesting package. You present Johnson who has less than a 2:1 K/bb ratio at 25 with a .289 average against at 25? Not to mention the more hits than walks plus a 7.24 era. He’s not even an interesting young single A wild card which the Rays have known to value pitching prospects differently. You fail to understand that he’s pitched pretty well recently. You have to give something to get something.
More hits than ip
You can cross Thornburg, Nerris, and Rodgers off your list. Abad might not cost as much comparably but it way more than just a questionable AAAA reliever.
Why can I cross Thornburg, Nerris, and Rogers off my list? Are they part of the Brewers, Phillies, and Twins long term success plans….. random relievers who are key pieces to build off of in the future? Please. None of these guys are closers, so you can’t really say they play a key part in their team’s bullpen. Neris is a late inning guy with 15 holds on the year, but he is 27 years old already. While he won’t attract a stud for a prospect he’ll garner a decent prospect in return. Thornburg is on a team that is probably going to blow itself up and start a true rebuild. Rumors are going they’re trying to move Lucroy and Braun. If they do that why keep Thornburg for 3 more years while he’s under control if it means you can get a decent prospect for him? Do you think they’ll trade Braun and Lucroy but keep Thornburg? Someone’s got to solidify the back end of that bullpen for the next three years while the Brewers suck…… I guess? Rogers is in his debut season. His numbers as a reliever aren’t any better than Travis Wood’s. The fact I even mentioned his name should perk Twins fans ears up. The fact I’d be willing to part with a middling Cubs prospect for him should intrigue Twins fans since a middling Cubs prospect would likely be a top tier prospect in their system. Twins need all the help they can get. If the Cubs are willing to give them anything for a random LHP reliever I think they’d be interested. With Buxton appearing to be a bust, granted it’s still early in his career. Mauer is still the best player on that offense. Sano and his .240-something BA and 25 HR power is their second best hitter. Other than that they don’t have much to look forward too. Most of their top prospects are pitchers. I think if the Cubs approached Minnesota inquiring about Rogers for a cubs position playing prospect the Twins would be all ears. Rogers for Hannemann would probably pique their interest. While Hannemann is nothing special on to the Cubs and like their 8th best OF prospect, he would probably be the Twins’ 2nd best OF prospect behind only Adam Walker, the Twins 9th ranked prospect overall. Twins need position players BAD. That’s something the Cubs have plenty of in their system and the Twins – don’t. If they can get Hannemann who is the Cubs’ 28th ranked prospect in their system for the likes of Taylor Rogers why WOULDN’T you take that trade? The Twins OF is god awful. Between Sano, Santana, grossman, Buxton, Kepler, Rosario, or whoever they insert to their revolving door OF I think cumulatively they have about a .240 BA and a .300-.310 OBP as an OF combined. Pathetic.
You’re looking solely at Johnson’s down year this year, in which he has been battling a back injury. He’s only thrown 32 innings this year. In the other 327 IP he has compiled through the minors he has a 2.50 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 3.7 BB/9, and an 8.50 K/9 rate…….. I’d say that is pretty damn good. But yeah, let’s pick and choose a 32 inning sample size instead. If we can pick and choose which stats we want to look at to label a pitcher then Moore is a giant POS. Look at his 2015 stats. 5.43 ERA, 1.54 WHIP….. 3.3 BB/9….. 6.6 K/9……. what a fucking bum. His 2016 stats aren’t much better, but I’m picking and choosing his 2015 stats since that’s the game we’re playing apparently.
This is what you call overvaluing your prospects. Johnson was a college pitcher dominating in A ball which is expected and kind of required. You expect the gaudy K numbers and low BA which many times they cover up a lot. You’re not going to get a real assessment until AA ball. You want to look at the last three year years 57BBs/99Ks, 32BBs/72Ks, then this years magical 23bbs/32Ks. Those three years are his introduction to advanced hitters Still never had higher than a 2/1 K:bb ratio. Which is fine you don’t have to be a K type pitcher but the walk rate posts red flags. Batting average is still rising year by year. Still never struck out a guy an inning. Significant control issues. But hey yeah it’s just one year. Let’s be honest he was a college pitcher who was advanced and heck he could probably be an ok reliever maybe. But to think the rays are going to move him for that is nuts. He’s so cheap this year and next year. They value the return package a lot more than that. Plus what’s their incentive to move Moore even if he just average. They have Archer and Snell at the top. They have Cobb. They have Honeywell who is probably going to factor in next year. They still have Guererri who is not to far off. If the were to move Smyley and Oddorrizi they are probably going to acquire a high upside pitcher as a portion of the package. If they want to compete which they probably will try to next year they simply have no need for Johnson. They’d be far better off sticking with Moore as their number 5 at 5 mill or until they find an upgrade or one of their high end prospects is ready. It’s not like it’s his walk year. At that price the Rays don’t need anyone who is a stud just a guy that can eat innings with the talent in that rotation and coming back. Not to mention Ramirez was a far more valuable starter last year. Yeah they probably want to move pitching but why do it now unless you get someone to overpay. It makes no sense what does make sense though is waiting until the off season when the market is barren showing that guys are back healthy and now they have a bidders market. But your looking at this as a Cubs fan trying to win a trade which is your proghtive just not realistic.
*prerogative
Alright KB just stop. As a Cubs fan you are embarrassing me. First you tried to say in another thread that the Cubs should trade Anthony Rizzo a young MVP hopeful in a team friendly deal that is good on both sides of the ball and move up Dan Vogelbach a young slugger who is limited on defense simply because you “felt he was going to be good”. Now you try and say Matt Moore should only cost Pierce Johnson because the Padres traded Drew Pomeranz and Espinoza is just a “low level minor league pitcher”. You clearly don’t understand what’s going on in baseball and you clearly both overvalue Cubs prospects and undervalue major league talent.
After reading the rest of your posts, I can’t tell if you’re a troll or clueless. Either way, no need to get too in depth because it will be wasted on you. All I can tell you is there is no way the Cubs get Moore for Pierce Johnson. No way at all.
I truly hope it’s a troll.
holy wall of text batman….
I like the idea of going after Matt Moore. Good analysis by KB. I like the plan. Bullpen for now and can potentially go back to rotation next year if the Cubs dont want Hammel back (or if he leaves) and still potentially he would be very good in the pen for years
Niese for an autographed Kelly Johnson baseball?
OK, how about a puck?
The Cubs need bullpen help and Miller is too expensive, Chapman as a rental piece or a lower tier guy who is controllable is my bet. Knowing Theo’s taste more than likely the lower tier guy with control. Right now isn’t the time to add starting pitching despite me hating hammel and not loving lackey’s style. I understand theo just giving an arbitrary answer that doesn’t surrender any potential leverage in a trade but might as well call a spade a spade, we aren’t trading for starting pitching barring a miraculous deal. I’m worried about these giants though man, they’re the best team in baseball and it already looks like getting those injured guys back at the right time is gonna start them on a hot streak in September-October. Just another even year.
There is NEVER “not” a good time to add SP. You can never have enough SP. And like I said, Moore wouldn’t be a starter, he’d be a reliever on this team. With Hammel having an option year next year he isn’t guaranteed to come back. If he does the Cubs trot out the exact same rotation next year and Moore can continue pitching in their pen. If my hunch comes true, Moore will be as effective in the pen as Wade Davis is in KC……. or at least very good in the pen…… Davis has set a pretty high bar. Then you always have the option to stretch Moore out and be a spot starter or take over if a guy in the rotation gets hurt. Again, you can NEVER have enough SP.
Agree with KB again. You can never have enough SP and if its a lefty to boot and he can also work in the pen. And he is not costing our top prospects or major league player and that pitcher is still controlable. Man its a no brainer.
What I love is the arguments of prospects and rankings. I do think Espinoza will be a great arm, but even those that argue Teheran is not that great, he was 3rd best prospect behind Trout and Harper. Ezpinoza will be a great arm I think and Teheran will only get better.
Do you really know this little about your team’s players? Go back and read the scouting reports of Teheran when he was ranked that high. I’ll give you a hint, it didn’t say “lucky babip, groundball, and homerun supression”.
The stuff he has now was very different (and worse) than what he had when he was that highly touted. LIke that upper 90s fastball he seemed to have lost. Since I assume you will try to make the failed argument that he just traded velocity for control, he wasn’t supposed to have to do that when he was ranked so high.
Seriously, come back to earth.
Well, dang. Viz was the Braves’ best (and most likely) in-season trade chip. I suppose he could go as a waiver-wire deal in August, or he may play out the season in Atlanta and be shopped this winter.
Nacho dip is the shit. Vizcaino and Cain are not