TODAY: Miami is also interested in Andrew Cashner of the Padres and Michael Pineda of the Yankees, according to MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (via Twitter). While New York is “not ready” to deal Pineda at this time, that presumably isn’t a limiting factor with regard to Cashner.
Both of these righties possess rather different profiles than does Hellickson. Cashner is also a pending free agent, but he arguably comes with a higher ceiling and a lower recent track record. Though he turned in his best start of the year recently, he is still carrying a lackluster 5.05 ERA with 7.0 K/9 and 3.6 BB/9 on the year. And Cashner has not only seen his fastball lose a full tick of velocity, but is running up a career-low 6.8% swinging strike rate.
Pineda has been similarly inconsistent, though perhaps there’s greater reason for optimism in his case. Despite a 5.56 earned run average, he’s carrying a robust 10.7 K/9 while issuing only 2.4 free passes per nine innings over his 100 1/3 frames on the year. That’s supported by the deeper peripherals: Pineda’s average heater is sitting at about 94 mph, and he is generating swings and misses on 13.7% of his pitches. Notably, too, Pineda comes with an added year of team control via arbitration.
YESTERDAY:Â The Marlins’ search for rotation help has spanned many targets over the past month, and MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro adds another name to the list today, tweeting that Miami is interested in division-rival Jeremy Hellickson of the Phillies. Marlins scouts and officials will get an up-close look at Hellickson this week, as he’s slated to pitch against Miami on Wednesday when the Fish are in Philadelphia. Notably, Frisaro adds that he does indeed expect Miami to make “a trade or two” prior to the Aug. 1 non-waiver deadline.
Hellickson, 29, is in the midst of his best season since 2012. The 2011 American League Rookie of the Year was brilliant early in his career after graduating from top prospect status, but he posted a 4.86 ERA from 2013-15 with the Rays and D-backs while battling elbow and hamstring injuries. This year, he’s taken the mound 19 times and posted a solid 4.03 ERA in 111 2/3 innings (despite a hitter-friendly home environment) while averaging 7.9 K/9 and 2.2 BB/9 to go along with a 41 percent ground-ball rate. That type of work certainly doesn’t make him a front-line addition to a rotation, but the Marlins have reportedly been seeking a dependable source of innings to round out the back of their rotation as opposed to a top-tier starter to pair with ace Jose Fernandez. In that sense, Hellickson fits the bill.
The trouble for the Marlins, as we’ve noted in the past, is that their farm system is among the worst-regarded in all of baseball, and they already thinned it out by moving well-regarded right-hander — Chris Paddack — to pluck Fernando Rodney from the Padres. The organization’s top prospect entering the season, Tyler Kolek, underwent Tommy John surgery earlier this year as well, though it’s unlikely that the Marlins would’ve been particularly fond of the notion of parting with him in exchange for a two-month rental. That same reluctance would presumably apply to 2015 first-rounder Josh Naylor — the club’s new top-ranked prospect.
None of that is to say that the Marlins can’t work out a trade for Hellickson (or another starter), of course. Even a weak farm system has intriguing names throughout its ranks, and the asking price on Hellickson is unlikely to be exorbitant. He’s earning $7MM in his final season before free agency, and while he’s a candidate for a qualifying offer, the Phils may not be keen on the idea of offering $16MM+ to a player they acquired as a salary dump. Hellickson has exceeded the expectations of most pundits, and the safer play for the Phillies would likely be to cash in on him now rather than face the QO dilemma in October.
The Marlins have also been connected to the likes of Jake Odorizzi, Matt Moore, Rich Hill, Chris Archer and Ervin Santana this summer, and they reportedly expressed interest in Drew Pomeranz and Bud Norris before their respective trades to the Red Sox and Dodgers. At 49-42, they’re six games back from the division-leading Nationals and in a tie with the division-rival Mets for the second NL Wild Card spot.
I would like to see a big league player for big league player swap. Is that best? I don’t know. But, It would be exciting to see.
Marlins don’t want to do that they are trying to add players without having a good farm system to deal from or trading from the 25. That’s what brought them here. The best case scenario of what you described is like a Jose urena type. Big league experience, young arm .
You seldom see big league player for big league player swap during the season. You have to realize that the goal for the Marlins is to try to field a playoff caliber team. Robbing peter to pay paul (diminishing one aspect of the big league roster to benefit another aspect) isn’t likely a good fix to improve the overall ability of the team.
There have been instances in the past however, but those are generally limited to when someone has recently came of the DL and is needing a place to play, or an instance where a sure fire prospect is coming up from the minors to replace a universally declared lesser player (but already established). There have been some comments here about possibly moving Dietrich because of the soon to be reinstated Dee Gordon from suspension. The problem with that theory though is that Gordon will be ineligible for post season play so the Marlins still need Dietrich..
You see it happen in the NHL all the time but it’s pretty rare in MLB during the season.
Krillin. It depends on the trade. For example: If you consider that the Marlins are looking for veteran pitching they could probably offer the Red Sox a straight up deal of Ichiro Suzuki for RHP Clay Buchholz. Now that would be an interesting big league player for a big league player swap, though I’m not too sure if it would be exiting but like I said it seems quite interesting. Clay Buchholz desperately needs a change of scenery and play out his contract out of Boston, where if he does well this second half and helps the Marlins to the playoffs they might pick up his option in 2017. He’s still a good pitcher and with manager Don Mattingly he is only going to get better.
Ichiro would fill out a Red Sox need in left field full time and leave Brock Holt as a utility player where he does a much better job.
Has Ichiro been playing that badly? 🙂
Yes, I figure you’re RS fan and fed up with Clay, but you’ll be surprise what a change of scenery would do for a pitcher with a claustrophobic condition in Boston and with his talent can do. He has nowhere to go but up and Miami will work well for him. As for Ichiro he’s a 42 year old future hall of famer that just does not give up and still plays well enough to be soon close to 3000 hits.
I just don’t understand why you would deplete an already depleted system for a back-end rotation rental that supposedly would increase your chances to secure a wild card spot. It just didn’t make any sense to me.
Add this to your misunderstanding: Ellington was sent down to make room for Rodney. Brian has struck out 11 in four innings at NO. Rodney did not improve anything.
Not that I’m a fan of the Rodney deal, but Ellington also has even more command problems than Rodney. The Marlins bullpen walk a lot of guys, which isn’t helped by Rodney, but they also needed help getting lefties out, and needed another arm that could pitch late in the game
Get what u can and move on. We have good pitching prospects at AAA that need to be moved up
Just stop with this “Big League” player stuff. Paddack was the best MILB pitcher period. The numbers he has posted in A ball are meaningful because Jose Fernandez himself couldn’t go down there and match them right now!
There are no Johnny Cuetos available and the Marlins don’t have the prospects to trade if there were.
Hellickson gave up a 3 run homer in the first on June 20 and one in the sixth on July 15. He gave up 4 ER in the 29 innings between those two shots. Even with those two homers his ERA is 2.90 over those 6 starts. If they’re lucky they won’t get the guy with an FIP of 4.37 but get the guy who is hot.
I mentioned Hellickson as a possibility for the Marlins a couple of months ago. I also think he could be helped a little at Marlins Park, similarly to how Phelps did last year. Obviously, the fences are in a lot more than they were, but it should still help him a little with his HR problem. Still, the Marlins probably need another starter, plus Hellickson, and probably another reliever that can get lefties out. I don’t know how they would expect to get that done. The reliever could potentially be found from within, with a couple of interesting possibilities in the minor leagues, but to get 2 SPs with this farm system seems really improbable, unless maybe they empty out whatever remaining talent there is. Even then, most of it is in the lower minor leagues
no no no not worth trading for
Hellickson is very overrated. Career FIP of 4.37
Don’t like this at all as a marlins fan don’t like going after rentals and giving up any prospects even the Rodney deal has a team option next year would
ike the marlins to go after pineda or Jesse Hahn there controllable arms have upside this guy is a whatever guy hell even urena would be hard to give away for this guy marlins don’t do it please
Kolek and Naylor are too much for the Marlins to give up but Hellickson is going to bring back a solid return so something like Isael Soto, Luis Castillo and Esch? Although other teams would beat that package?
I wasn’t familiar with the Marlins prospects other than their top ones so I had to look up those 3 names. But I’d be surprised if Hellickson brought back that much in return. Honestly, I’m expecting a player like Castillo and nothing else in return.
But I guess a lot depends on if the Phillies plan to give him a QO (which I would gamble on doing if I was GM). If they plan to give him a QO, they’ll hold out for value similar to a compensatory pick. If they don’t, they’ll move him for the best available deal most likely regardless.
I am very surprised at how bad Cashner has been this year. I thought initially that he would be a staff ace for years to come for the Padres.
I have read a few things saying that Cashner does not like being in San Diego, this may or may not effect the way he pitches in SD. If it does, might as well move him for whatever you can get. Clearly, the Cubs won this trade…
Hill go get pineda
As a Padres fan I loved the Rodney/Paddack trade and it is true that a bunch of big league starters couldn’t go down to A ball and post Paddack’s numbers. That being said it doesn’t mean he is an elite prospect, A ball hitters really struggle hitting good changeups and Paddack’s is very advanced. Paddack has good control/command but the development of consistency in the curve is huge to see if he can fufill his number 2 starter potential. He’s probably a borderline top 100 guy in my mind, great get for Rodney and Marlins should have saved him for someone like Moore, Hellickson, or Ervin. But he’s not a elite guy by any stretch of imagination
How about a perdomo cashner for nicolino flores trade since cashner likely will walk perdomo gives the marlins a guy that still has some potential the padres get a guy in florez with good stuff and in nicolino a guy that could still be a 5 starter that needs a change of team
Not sure how the rule 5 players work, meaning whether they can be traded or not, but Perdomo is a rule 5 guy, so this might limit the ability to trade him.
Rule 5 players can be traded, but their new team has the same rules where they have to keep him in the Majors for the rest of the season.
Nothing in that deal would lead the Padres to include Perdomo. You have to remember the Padres have to really have liked him to keep him up when he was at a 9+ era for the season. He has upside, is younger, and is pitching much better since moving into the rotation, especially over his last few starts.
I doubt the Yankees will send Pineda off unless they admit they’re in rebuild mode. Something I doubt will happen. Moving Chapman, Beltran and Miller (maybe) seems far more likely but doesn’t necessarily indicate fire sale.
Pineda for Grichuk