1:15pm: A straight-up swap of Giolito wouldn’t be enough to get the Yankees to budge on Miller, Heyman tweets.
12:53pm: We’ve long heard about the Nationals’ interest in Yankees ace reliever Andrew Miller, but it has never quite been clear what the team would be willing to do to make that happen. Per MLB.com’s Jon Morosi, via Twitter, “sources who have spoken with the [Nationals] believe” they’d do a one-for-one swap of Miller for top pitching prospect Lucas Giolito.
That language certainly still leaves a bit of wiggle room, and it’s not clear that a firm offer has been proposed. There’s no question, though, that the towering righty would represent a tantalizing offer for New York — if he is in fact being placed on the table.
New York is looking for a massive return for its star lefty, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag reports (Twitter links). The club is said to want three times the total value it achieved in its trade of Aroldis Chapman, who netted one very good prospect in Gleyber Torres along with three other pieces with real value. While Chapman is a pure rental piece, Miller comes with two added years of club control at a reasonable (though not cheap) price tag of $9MM annually. Heyman also notes that it still seems unlikely he’ll change hands, though perhaps New York is open to being blown away by an offer.
Joining the Nats with ongoing interest in Miller are the Cardinals, Indians, Rangers, and Giants, according to Heyman. Certainly, all of those clubs could put together appealing packages, though none has a rotation prospect that quite reaches Giolito’s standing — with the Cards’ Alex Reyes being the closest thing (though, to be clear, we’ve heard no indication to this point that he could be had). Texas also has some premium assets that it could dangle, though they land mostly on the position-player side. And it’s far from clear whether those teams’ best pieces are on offer for Miller.
If Giolito is, in fact, available, it would seem to make the Nats a favorite to acquire Miller. Giolito is widely regarded as one of the game’s truly premier starting pitching prospects, and he has already reached the majors for D.C. Truth be told, he would represent a rather stunning return, even for a reliever of Miller’s undeniable excellence.
The Nats were said not to be willing to give up Giolito, or even some lesser prospects, in a deal for Chapman. But there’s obviously good reason to cough up more assets for the controllable Miller, and the team has a deep stock of appealing young arms. Plus, Washington’s need for a premium late-inning pen piece only continues to grow, with incumbent closer Jonathan Papelbon struggling more than ever.
MB923
If that was a real offer, Cashman would take it. Unfortunately Hal wouldn’t.
hellacious07
Agreed. Although, I think this is the starting point and Cashman will get more out of them. Maybe Miller, Beltran, and Nova for Giolito and Lopez?
danieldash428
Cash would be able to talk Steinbrenner into taking this. Giolito could be the ace of this generation of prospects.
yankeesfan681202
If that were a real offer they should take it, but they won’t, mostly due to the fact that the Yankees are in the driver’s seat when it comes to Miller, if 2 months of Chapman can net the Cubs top prospect and 3 solid pieces, 2 years of Miller can get a lot more than Giolito, let’s be honest though, relievers aren’t worth this, but in this market the Yankees are doing the right thing. If a deal is made it will definitely include Giolito and then some just because of the inflated price in this market. Miller should be worth just Giolito but the Yanks can ask for anything and the team that meets whatever demands will ultimately overpay, and if the Nats really want Miller look for Giolito and Lopez to be in it at the least, IMO.
JT Rogers
It would make sense for the Yanks
unsaturatedmatz
Should try to get Giolito a controllable reliever such as Gott or Rivero. Or Turner and Ross and a reliever.
natsgm
So if Giolito and Gott/Rivero doesnt work then they should ask for an even bigger package of Turner, Ross and a releiver. Nice logic
unsaturatedmatz
I didn’t mean to write that from Yankees point of view… I was referring to Heyman and Sherman’s comments about Yankees not being tempted by the 1-1 swap. You are correct that it was illogical coming from the Yankees perspective to say that Ross and turner could get it done if the Nats wouldn’t do giolito and a reliever.
krillin
I typically would never give a player like Giolito for any reliever, but I would not be surprised if the Nationals pull the trigger. I am sure they are tired of being regarded as a top team and falling short in the playoffs.
Steven P.
Miller is an elite bullpen arm under control for a few more seasons. I’m not saying deal Giolito for him, but he is a difference maker in a playoff team’s bullpen.
krillin
I am not disagreeing with you. I just never would. That is more so a hypothetical personal strategy of mine. Miller is def an elite type of player, but honestly I think bullpen prices are too inflated, regardless of who it is.
petfoodfella
Miller isn’t going to bring them to the promised land when Harper is hitting terribly, for extended periods
ronnsnow
If Cashman doesn’t take that deal, he should be fired. Still have Betances.
bradthebluefish
The problem is the owner Hal Steinbrenner. He won’t take it even though he should. Heck, I’d throw in Beltran and whoever else just to make this deal work.
chound
Giolito straight up would be such a Yankee win that’d I’d openly state my jealousy.
Gnotorious
If the Nats trade Giolito, they will regret it for years to come. I’m not saying that Miller isn’t worth it but that would be a high price to pay.
danieldash428
As a lifelong Yankee fan, it’s time to face reality. This team isn’t making the postseason anytime soon with the current lack of offense. Since George Steinbrenner passed away, it hasn’t been as easy to open up the checkbook and buy the best players on the market. It’s time to rebuild. I’m thrilled with the Chapman deal and the acquisition of Gleyber Torres, and I think trading Miller for Lucas Giolito would make this season a success for the Yankees no matter where they finish. By 2018, the Yankees would be featuring the 1-2 punch of Torres and Jorge Mateo in the middle of the infield and Giolito as the up and coming ace. The future would be bright, and the farm system would still be strong. Cashman should’ve even balk at this deal, and if Washington formally offers it then it should be a no-brainer!
go_jays_go
” it hasn’t been as easy to open up the checkbook and buy the best players on the market. It’s time to rebuild. ”
Building a team from free agency is the wrong strategy in today’s game.
This ain’t the steroid era, where you could feasibly expect players to still make meaningful contributions in their mid to late 30’s.
Players are deteriorating much more rapidly in their early 30’s now.
If a guy like Sabathia wants to opt-out after his age 31 season, you let him opt-out and leave.
m_pemulis
I get that it’s the circle-jerk and everything, but Free Agency is far from the Yankees big problem. Recent FAs:
-Tanaka (Borderline ace)
-Miller (well below market contract, we’re talking about him fetching the best SP prospect in baseball)
-Beltran (still putting up all-star caliber numbers)
-McCann (still a top-5 catcher in the majors, well worth the contract)
-Ellsubury (by far the worst contract of the bunch, still an above-average hitter with speed/CF defense)
Most teams fare far worse when dipping into the FA pool. Their problem has been player development, period. When you haven’t had a losing record in 20 years and you aren’t able to take advantage on the small-market incentives the MLB has, you damn well better develop your mid-round guys and use your finances to buy guys like Moncada, Maitan, etc.
Dookie Howser, MD
– In what world is McCann a top 5 catcher? He is 32 and is 9th in WAR (behind Sandy-freaking-Leon who has played in a third as many games!)
– What about the Texiera contract
And poor Yankees not having the “small-market incentives”?
bronxbombers
First of all Tex has been an above average hitter and fielder for 6/8 years of his contract plus well worth it in the beginning ’09
yr38
Hal balking at the chance to sign Moncada over $10 million was the worst thing I’ve ever seen. I don’t get how you let a top 10 prospect on the open market that wanted to go to your team leave for your arch rival. Hal seems like he is favoring money over hardware honestly, and when he is actually thinking about the team he makes the wrong decisions every time (like almost not oking the Chapman deal)
yr38
This, winning the ’09 WS alone made him, and even AJ Burnett worth the signings. Burnett had a huge win in that series that saved us
yankeesfan681202
It wasn’t over 10 million, the Yankees had already passed the limit on what they could spend on the international market and would have to pay 100% more on the contract, meaning they’d have to pay 80 million for Moncada instead of 40, obviously now he would be worth that, but at the time Hal didn’t want to risk the $, the same applies for the Red Sox but their owner was willing to spend it.
yr38
Yes I understand they had to pay 100% luxury on him, the Red Sox deal with him was $5 million more than the Yankees (Hal) were willing to offer, and that becomes $10 million
I know what I’m talking about lol
nohitter
Rizzo would be pretty desperate to give Gioloto for Miller. I feel like pushing the deal to center around Robles, Lopez, or both would be a lot easier to swallow as an origination. For all I know that’s already been discussed and shot down. But hopefully this years deadline was as exciting as last years.
nohitter
Organization
brothbart
No way, Lopez is a better pitcher and ready now and they will need Robles. Giolito probably needs another year or more in the minors. It will be awhile, if at all, before he is any good. He has the same mentality that had plagues Strasburg, but he doesn’t have good command of his stuff and he doesn’t through many hit and miss pitches. The Nats should go this deal in a minute. If the Yanks want more then maybe trade them a couple other guys for miller and Beltran. I would trade anyone not named Harper, Turner, Robles or Lopez.
BronxBombers14
Hahaha. Last week, on another thread, I was basically told I know nothing about baseball if I thought the Yankees could acquire giolito in a trade for Andrew Miller.
krillin
lol don’t you love how that works?
BronxBombers14
Hahaha. Absolutely. You think I’ll get an apology?
LH
Sounds like you want one..
BronxBombers14
I do.
chuckymorris
AS A RED SOX FAN THIS WOULD BE HORRIBLE
chandlere
A lot of people need to realize that Miller is contracted out until 2018. That is quite a bit of control for such a lock-down closer. It makes sense that the Yankees would be asking for a prospect of Gioloto’s caliber in return for him.
Polish Hammer
Much like Chapman to Chicago for that ridiculous bounty, I’d like to see Miller going to Cleveland but not at the price the Nationals will pay.
Mikel Grady
Ha ha. Torres hitting .275 in single A. McKinney injured all the time . Nice bounty . Chapman mowing them down for Cubs. Little guys stay in the shallow end while theo swims in the deep end all by himself
bronxbombers
Lmao you have him for 3 months
bronxbombers
Hell if Adam Warren returns to his old Yankees form it’s still a Yankee win bc he is conjured got 3 more years
bronxbombers
Controlled for
Mikel Grady
Royals had cueto for 3 months last year. Worked out pretty good . U don’t count your team has 27 championships . U will never understand cub fan pain. Just one before I die
dobsonel
If this is serious then I would expect Cashman will pull the trigger and make this happen. Then he’d free up enough money to bring Chapman back in the offseason and still stay under the luxury tax.
bravesfan 7
Do it gnats, do it
bradthebluefish
Just trade for a bunch of buy-low candidates for the bullpen or a half-the-season candidate. Giolito is so close to the majors and he is to be great. Not worth trading him. Also, Chapman is available this offseason for the next few seasons.
brothbart
Giolito is not close to being major league ready.
bradthebluefish
He’s one year away. High potential to start the season as a starting pitcher. I wouldn’t dare trade him. No chance in hell.
brothbart
Have you seen him pitch? He has command issues and not a lot of swing and miss stuff. It will be awhile, if at all, when he puts it together. Also, his temperament is kind of soft.
Niekro
In 5 seasons in the minors he has nearly 10 k/9 and 3 BB per 9 are you judging him off 11 innings in the majors?
slider32
Nothing you said means anything, his is the top pitching prospect in baseball.
danieldash428
Yes he is. In fact, he’s made a handful of MLB starts already this year. While he hasn’t been dazzling, he’s shown plenty of ace potential.
EndinStealth
I and most other people disagree with you. If kept he opens 2017 season in the Nats rotation.
slider32
Says who, he has already pitched in the big leagues, agains’t the Mets.
EndinStealth
I think he’s a closet Yankees fan try to talk Gioloto’s value down so the Yanks can get him. lol
BronxBombers14
@jasonpen @jeff Todd @one fan
About a week ago the three of you ridiculed and questioned my knowledge of baseball for suggesting the Yankees could get someone like Giolito in return for Andrew Miller.
If I were you guys, I might hit up the sports illustrated for kids threads.
Good call fellas!
Kayrall
Just because you suggested it and twitter speculation supports it does not make it true. Chicago got their guy in Chapman without paying the ridiculous price of Schwarber. New York media/perpetuators therefore must turn their attention elsewhere to generate clicks.
rivera42
Actually, Schwarber was the price for Miller, not Chapman.
Kayrall
False. Early on Miller and Chapman were interchangeably grouped with Schwarber. And regardless, it’s extremely obvious how New York proponents have refocused their crosshairs on a different overpay in an attempt to help the Yankee front office…
JamieMoyer 4
I’m honestly moderately concerned for you about how much of a grudge you seem to be holding over this perceived slight.
BronxBombers14
I’m moderately concerned that you’re concerned.
Mike M 2
It doesn’t make any sense for the Yankees to hold onto Miller. Like zero sense. His value will never, ever be higher.
bradthebluefish
Totally agree. Trade Miller and then go hard after Chapman in the offseason. Start off the season like nothing happened besides collecting a bunch of prospects.
swaskito
I think there are probably two reasons why the yankees wont make that trade. It is wether they still really want to compete for the wild card spot or they’re asking a higher return IMO
MB923
According to Heyman, the Yankees would not do this.
Brixton
Thats gross.
chound
I mean, cool Yankees but I think that’s a mistake (assuming Giolito is the offer).
hellacious07
Exactly. They’ll get more. Hopefully, Nats lose 3 this weekend.
Backatitagain
Braves would trade any two of current relief staff: RHP Jim Johnson 4.21/3.85, LHP Eric O’Flaherty 6.35/4.02, RHP Mauricio Cabrera 3.07/2.53, LHP Ian Krol 3.14/3.52, RHP Chris Withrow 3.03/3.85, LHP Hunter Cervenka 2.87/3.05, RHP Jose Ramirez, LHP Matt Marksberry for Lucas Giolito alone.
Brixton
Except they all suck except Cervenka and hes likely a flash in the pan
Gogerty
Seriously, I am Braves fan and find that ridiculous. 3 of our relievers minus Viz are not worth Giolito.
bronxbombers
Lmao do the trade bro do the trade
Backatitagain
Right-Handers Withrow or Cabrera and Left-Hander Cervenka would be a nice combo for the Nats. Probably push them over the finish line and they only give up a prospect that they have already offered for a reliever with just a couple years control and a hefty contract.
yanks02026
If this is true then cashman should be fired. Giolito straight up would be a STEAL
jakethesnizake
Cashman/Steinbrenner are baked out of their minds if they don’t do this one for one swap. ABSOLUTELY BAKED OUT OF THEIR MINDS.
This the #1 prospect in all of baseball, isn’t it? And he’s a starting pitcher.
What am I missing here?
Miller is a great relief pitcher…but he’s a relief pitcher.
Yankees can go out and sign Chapman this offseason and be in the same position they’re in now plus Giolito.
justinept
We live in a market where not only is a team reportedly willing to give up the #1 prospect in baseball for a late-inning reliever, but a market where the other team reportedly says the offer isn’t enough. Is it time to stop saying Epstein overpaid for Chapman?
Polish Hammer
Epstein overpaid for Chapman considering he can walk away in a matter of weeks with no compensation for that massive hole. At least Miller is your property for a couple seasons.
slider32
It all worth it if the Cubs win the world series.
MB923
Now Jim Bowden says Nationals aren’t trading Giolitto for anybody
rivera42
Rule of thumb is to not trust anything that Bowden says. His “sources” are non=existent.
Mike M 2
This can’t be real. If they don’t want Giolito they are basically saying MIller is untradeable.
slider32
Let’s just wait until the clock his 12, and then we will see where Miller is going or if he is going. Someone will have to over pay for him just like they do in free agency. A team that has a chance in the playoffs will make a good offer, but will it be good enough.. The Yanks still have a chance at the playoffs.
nyjets21
Hey Desperate Nationals, throw Fedde in there too and then we’ll give up on our season and let you guys have a chance against the Cubs.
BronxBombers14
Look at cashman trying to flex his muscles, lol. Giolito is not enough for cashman to budge? If he can get more for than giolito for Miller, I’ll take back every negative thing I’ve ever had to say about Brian cashman.
MB923
I’m pretty sure Hal would be saying No
By the way, this is a false rumor. Jim Bowden says the Nats are not trading Giolito for any reliever.
A'sfaninUK
LOL – why wouldn’t Giolito be enough for Miller? Did Cashman forget he gave scraps away for Chapman?
MB923
LOL. Did you forget who his boss is?
Ray Ray
Yes and everyone else should too. Chapman was traded for a much better package last week, so it is irrelevant what he was traded for before that. And it is completely irrelevant when discussing Miller because they are two different situations. A better comp would be the Craig Kimbrel/Red Sox deal over the off season. Giolito would not have been enough to get Kimbrel 1 for 1 either.
East Coast Bias
good point with the comp.
justinept
Torres has a chance to be a very good big-league shortstop, providing high-caliber defense to go along with some pop and speed at the plate. The rest of that package is pretty meh, depending on your feelings for McKinney. My opinion is that the guy is all hype and no production. He’s never actually done anything in the minors. Heck, the guy added weight in the off-season to increase his power, and not only has his power fallen off the map, but his hit tool (which was arguably his only tool that could be considered above average) has completely disappeared. Warren, while having some value as a big league pitcher, had no place on the Cubs roster – and was terrible for the Cubs when he found his way on it. If we’re being honest, Warren likely would’ve been non-tendered at season’s end and probably would’ve re-signed with the Yankees anyway. The 4th guy wasn’t even a top-30 prospect in the Cubs system.
The Chapman deal will come down to Torres, and nothing more.
Giolito, meanwhile, has the potential to be a legitimate ace.
Look, it’s a bit tough to gauge Torres’ future potential earnings since the high-end shortstop market is mostly on rookie deals (Seager, Lindor, Crawford, Boegarts, Correa, etc), but it’s really easy to gauge what an ace goes for in free agency… They’re considerably more expensive than all-star caliber bats. Giolito is worth considerably more than a package centered around Torres.
Ray Ray
Somewhere in the Dominican Republic, there are many 4 year olds with the potential to be future superstars. That doesn’t mean you should give them millions of dollars right now, does it? Giolito is just a prospect right now. A highly touted one, but still just a prospect.
stymeedone
David Clyde was once a highly touted prospect.
naldythompson
Torres provide high-caliber defense at short? Have you seen his defensive numbers? They say he profiles more as a 2b at best. And McKinney is indeed nothing more than a middling level prospect. He dropped way off the boards in the mid season rankings, for good reason.
unglar
I think Warren would have had definite value, a bad year is a bad year, but he has a minor league option meaning they could store him in the minors, He would fetch back an organizations number 15 prospect probably, especially in a barren SP market and the price of decent RP being so high. His stock was down, but he is a valuable piece on many rosters. For instance I think the Angels, Pirates, Marlins, Orioles, Mariners, and Cardnials would all benefit adding him to their roster. McKinney is overrated probably, but has potential and has been highly thought of, so a good year next year could make him valuable enough to get something like a utility infielder at least,
Torres by himself would have been an objectively fair deal probably, so that Cashman go so much more is why this move was so good.
MurderersRow27
Agreed 100% Ray Ray. Giolito should get the conversation started, but it shouldn’t be deemed enough for Cashman to pull the trigger. If 2 months of Chapman brought back 2 top 100 MLB prospects (and Torres being the #1 prospect in the Cubs organization), 2 years of Miller will/should top that by a long shot.
slider32
Not really, Giolitto is the top pitching prospect in baseball, Torres was number 28 Giolitto is number 4. I think Giolitto and Robles, or Turner and Lopez would get this deal done. Mr Lerner is getting on in years and Miller would give them the best shot at winning the world series. I can see this deal getting done Sunday.
andyb
Don’t have a dog in this one, but Giolito for Miller is crazy talk, even crazier is the notion that the Yankees would say no to that deal.
cano24
Morosi: Yankees would take Giolito for Miller straight up
Heyman: Yankees would want more than Giolito
Sherman: Nationals haven’t approached Yankees about Giolito for Miller
Bowden: Nationals would never trade Giolito for Miller
*facepalm*
MB923
Lol. One of those days.
East Coast Bias
Cashman is a boss! If it was me, I would have caved at Fedde for Chapman. He got a ridiculous package. I certainly would have traded Miller for Giolito ASAP, but he’s going to hold out for more and get it.
We are not privy to the phone calls being made by GMs, so we don’t know the perceived value of Chapman/Miller. Or rather, there’s a huge disconnect between our value and actual value.
If a 1-for-1 swap of Giolito is the floor for Miller… I’m scared to think what the actual return could be. I hope LAD and CLE get involved along with the Nats.
slider32
The Yanks should package Miller and Gardner for Giolitto, Turner, and Robles.
LH
Haha
Ray Ray
Guys, shutdown relievers are valued incredibly high right now, even moreso than prospects like Giolito. It is basically just a fact of the baseball market right now, so I think we all need to just accept it, whether we agree with it or not.
adshadbolt
If the yanks don’t accept that offer they are possibly could top the Diamondbacks for the dumbest team in the league. THE YANKEES ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THIS YEAR. They have no offense or starting pitching besides tanaka. They have an opportunity to acquire an future ACE for 1 player and he’s a reliever, what’s the price on Chris sale right now 5 top prospects, what did it cost for David price 200 million, this should honestly be a no brainier for the yanks. If their trying to squeeze another player or 2 for Miller they are just going to piss off the national and their gonna go trade for Davis and be left with nothing because the dodgers aren’t gonna give Urias, Pirates aren’t giving up glasnow or taillon, cards aren’t trading Reyes so the Yankees need to get their act together
Ray Ray
Um, you do realize that Miller is still around after this year, right? Even if the Yankees don’t win this year, which they are only 6 games out of the division lead and 3.5 games out of the WC, it doesn’t matter. Besides 6 games could easily be made up in 2 months.
Besides, wasn’t Pineda supposed to be a future ace when he was acquired too? Future ace means absolutely nothing right now.
danieldash428
Pineda was never touted as anything near an ace.
Ray Ray
Yes he was. I think you are practicing revisionist history. People were calling it a huge win for the Yanks even though they had to give up highly touted prospect Jesus Montero (snicker) to get him. That trade just proved that future aces and highly touted prospects are really nothing until they do it in the big leagues.
MB923
Dude. No offer was ever made. And the Nats have said they aren’t trading him for any reliever.
mike156
Giolito for Miller is just such a tantalizing trade, because it’s so risky for both teams. Miller is terrific, but he’s just a closer. Giolito is just a high-rated prospect. If you are Nats, he solves your bullpen problems (you may need a large sedative for Papelbon) and could be giving up just potential. For Yankees, there’s a real cost now–they have no solid bullpen behind a very shaky starting rotation.
krillin
All star Betances?
mike156
Betances is great, but the bullpen is predicated on three arms–one is already gone, Miller would be the second. You have starters that can barely go six. Betances can be built around in the future if you keep him, but right now, take Miller out of the equation, and you have a much weaker pitching staff.
Mickey627
Anyone else find it a bit rude to refer to players as pieces or assets? Curt Flood lost his career so players wouldn’t be considered property of the owners. Maybe they can be referred to as players
bruinsfan94 2
Get out of here with the PC garbage. These guys are making millions.
slider32
Cashman will make a deal if he gets either Lopez and Turner, or Giolitto and Robles for Miller. Short of that, the Yanks will hold on to Miller.
frankisfrunkis
That’s called stupidity.
stymeedone
Miller may be available in trade next July, and it might be an even better sellers market.
bruinsfan94 2
If they are not trading him for Gioltto, then they are not trading him
BronxBombers14
Imo, now is the time to unload Miller. His value won’t be any higher than it is right now.
callmenate
ALexington Reyes for Andrew Miller straight up?
BronxBombers14
If cashman wouldn’t pull the trigger for Giolito, I doubt they do it for Reyes. I’ve actually read a couple of articles that have mentioned Giolito’s make up and movement on his fastball being suspect. That cashman not making that deal isn’t the worst decision in the world.