2:19pm: The Padres will cover around $2.275MM of the $2.5MM remaining on Cashner’s contract this year, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets.
12:33pm: The deal is official, with both clubs announcing it. There’s money heading from San Diego to Miami in the swap, per the announcement, though details remain unreported.
9:58am: After more than a month of searching for a starting pitcher to fill out the back of their rotation, the Marlins have succeeded in landing a pair of starters, reportedly agreeing to a trade that will net them right-handed starters Andrew Cashner and Colin Rea as well as righty reliever Tayron Guerrero from the Padres. In exchange, Miami is sending right-hander Jarred Cosart, top first base prospect Josh Naylor, minor league righty Luis Castillo and injured reliever Carter Capps, who underwent Tommy John earlier this year, to San Diego.
Miami has been said to be frantically searching for an upgrade to the back of its rotation, and Cashner will provide the steady innings they’ve been seeking — with the upside for more — so long as he stays healthy. That’s not a given for Cashner, it should be noted; he’s missed time in 2016 with a hamstring strain and a neck strain, and the 2014 season saw him endure separate stints on the disabled list for soreness in his right shoulder and inflammation in his right elbow.
Injuries have, to some extent, played a role in Cashner’s weaker-than-expected results across the past two seasons. After pitching to a 2.87 ERA in 289 1/3 innings from 2013-14, Cashner posted a 4.34 ERA in 184 2/3 innings last season and is at 4.76 in 79 1/3 innings in 2016. However, he’s pitched quite well over his past three outings and still comes with some degree of upside. He is, after all, less than two years removed from a season that saw him deliver a strong 2.55 ERA in 123 1/3 innings, and he still averages just under 94 mph on his heater to go along with an above-average ground-ball rate. That last point is key for a Marlins infield that has plus defenders in Martin Prado at third base, the recently reinstated Dee Gordon at second base and defensive wizard Adeiny Hechavarria at shortstop.
Rea, 26, is an entirely different type of asset for the Marlins. He’s in just his second season at the big league level and is controllable through the 2021 season, giving Miami a potential long-term piece in the rotation, though his early results have admittedly been mixed. The former 12th-round pick has a 4.81 ERA in 131 career innings at the Major League level, averaging 7.0 K/9 and 3.8 BB/9 to go along with a 45.5 percent ground-ball rate. Rea, though, entered the 2015 season as the Padres’ No. 4 prospect at MLB.com and No. 7 prospect at Baseball America. Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com noted at the time that the new Padres regime considered Rea to be a pleasant surprise, as he’d added velocity to his fastball, more power to his curveball and also improved his command. The changes gave Rea the upside of settling in as a third or fourth starter in the Majors, per the report, and while Rea isn’t there just yet, there certainly seems to be some untapped potential with which VP of pitching development Jim Benedict (who came over from the Pirates this winter) can work.
Cashner and Rea will slot into a Marlins rotation that is fronted by ace Jose Fernandez and impressive sophomore Adam Conley. Miami, however, just lost its top offseason signing, left-hander Wei-Yin Chen, to the disabled list with an elbow sprain, further magnifying an already pressing need to add to the rotation. Right-hander Tom Koehler can provide a steady stream of mostly reliable innings at the back of the rotation, and Rea seems likely to step into the starting mix ahead of the inexperienced Jose Urena in the fifth spot.
Guerrero, meanwhile, gives Miami a buy-low arm on a pitcher that rated among San Diego’s top 30 prospects entering the season but has had a dreadful start to his 2016 campaign. Guerrero, 25, posted a very strong 3.05 ERA and punched out 61 hitters in 56 innings between Double-A and Triple-A last year, but control problems have always been an issue for him, and he’s become more hittable in 2016. This year, he’s sporting a 5.30 ERA in 35 2/3 innings between those same levels. While his strikeout and walk rates are similar to those of his 2015 campaign, he’s allowed considerably more hits and been more homer-prone this year. Guerrero offers a blistering fastball and the potential for an above-average slider but is something of a project for the Fish. He did make his big league debut earlier this year, though, and if Miami can get him back on track he could conceivably add a very live arm to their bullpen later this season.
The loss of both Cashner and Rea leaves the rebuilding Padres rather thin in the rotation, especially with Tyson Ross still on the DL due to his season-long shoulder woes, Robbie Erlin out for the year due to Tommy John surgery and Erik Johnson (who came over in the trade that removed James Shields from the San Diego rotation) also on the disabled list due to a right flexor sprain. Incredibly, the Padres have traded away nearly their entire Opening Day rotation, as Ross is the only remaining member (and likely only remains due to his injury status). The Friars, for now, are left with Edwin Jackson, Christian Friedrich and Rule 5 righty Luis Perdomo in their rotation, and they will presumably be joined by Cosart.
The 26-year-old Cosart, who had made just one start for the Marlins since returning from Triple-A, will go through yet another change of scenery in hopes of finally capitalizing on the potential that made him a consensus top 100 prospect from 2011-13. Originally drafted by the Phillies, he went to Houston in the original Hunter Pence trade and then to Miami alongside Enrique Hernandez in exchange for Jake Marisnick, Colin Moran and a competitive balance draft pick. Cosart has shown glimpses of his potential in the Majors and even posted a 3.69 ERA in 180 1/3 big league innings back in 2014, but he’s never been able to string much success together. He’ll bring plenty of grounders to the table (career 55.3 percent ground-ball rate), but he’s never missed many bats despite averaging 94 mph on his fastball (5.6 K/9) and hasn’t shown great control either (4.3 BB/9).
San Diego, though, will have some time to try to get Cosart on track. He entered the season with two years and 20 days of service time, and he’ll fall shy of the 152 days of big league service he’d have needed to reach three years of Major League service. As such, Cosart will be controlled through the 2020 season.
The addition of Capps to the deal is a high-upside wild card for the Padres. Capps broke out as one of baseball’s most dominant relievers last season, posting a 1.16 ERA with a 58-to-7 K/BB ratio and a 40.8 percent ground-ball rate in 31 innings of work. With a fastball that averaged 98.1 mph and appeared even faster due to delivery that was as controversial as it was unorthodox — the legality of Capps’ delivery came into question on multiple occasions in 2015 — Capps had all of the makings of an elite bullpen arm before his UCL gave out in Spring Training. If he rehabs and comes back looking anything like the 2015 version of himself, the Friars will be a legitimate relief ace on their hands.
The top-ranked prospect in this deal is Naylor — the No. 12 overall pick in the 2015 draft and the No. 100 prospect in Major League Baseball according to Baseball America’s midseason Top 100 list. MLB.com rated Naylor second among Marlins farmhands on its midseason update to Miami’s prospect rankings, placing him only behind 2016 first-rounder Braxton Garrett. The 19-year-old Naylor has held his own despite being well below the average age of competitors in the Class-A South Atlantic League this season, batting .269/.317/.430 with nine homers, 24 doubles, two triples and 10 stolen bases. His 5.9 percent walk rate isn’t wowing anyone just yet, but he’s shown a knack for making contact, striking out at a respectable 16.7 percent clip against older competition. The 10 steals are somewhat of a surprise for a 6’0″, 225-pounder that is said to lack speed, though he could see that stolen base total come down as he continues to progress throughout the minors (especially considering he’s still just 19 and could add further weight/size). Based on his bat alone, Naylor would probably be a more highly regarded prospect; MLB.com’s report on him states that his bat could be “special,” praising his plus-plus raw power and strong contact skills. However, Naylor is seen as a first baseman only, and a below-average one at that, with very little speed, meaning that scouts feel he’ll be a bat-first type of player that needs to hit to provide everyday value.
Castillo was sixth among Marlins farmhands on Baseball America’s midseason update of their top prospects and eighth on MLB.com’s midseason Marlins rankings. The 23-year-old moved from the bullpen to the rotation for the first time last season at Class-A and has pitched very well in Class-A Advanced, working to a 2.25 ERA with 7.6 K/9, 1.4 BB/9 and a 51.9 percent ground-ball rate this season. BA notes that Castillo’s fastball has touched 101 mph and sits in the 96-97 mph range, adding that he shows feel for a changeup and a slider with some depth. MLB.com suggests that he’s no sure thing to stick in a rotation but adds that he has the stuff to be a power arm near the back of a bullpen if a move back to relief work ultimately proves necessary.
ESPN’s Buster Olney first reported that the Marlins had a deal to acquire Cashner (via Twitter). Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald reported that Rea was going to the Marlins as well (also via Twitter) . FOX’s Ken Rosenthal tweeted that Naylor was part of the return. Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald tweeted that a member of the big league roster was headed to San Diego prior to reports of Cosart’s inclusion. Yahoo’s Jeff Passan reported Castillo’s inclusion (Twitter link), and ESPN’s Jayson Stark reported that Cosart was in the deal as well (on Twitter). The inclusion of Capps and Guerrero were the final pieces of the puzzle, both reported by Rosenthal (Twitter link).
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Interested to see who the Marlins gave up. I wonder if it was their SS. Probably not, but I am interested to see.
They got Rodney from Padres so easy to deal with them. Hopefully nobody off MLB Roster.
Gonna have to shave.
BIg Hat No Cattle Cashner has to shave. Welcome to Donny’s world! Of course he is laughing all the way to the bank because he goes from CA taxes to no tax in Florida.
If I were Cashner and got to the point where I was good enough to negotiate a no trade clause, I would purposefully make all the teams that make you shave the teams I couldn’t be traded to. Lol
Marlins should have got him when they got Rodney. That way when they saw the “Meh” first hand they could have flipped him again at the deadline to some other sucker.
One man’s guess: Castillo, Soto, and Lilek. Hopefully something like that or more to set the market as Hellickson is now on the clock.
Wow, Miami is making a push in the division. As a Braves fan, great to see for the division.
A 5 era. Doubt they gave up any top prospects.
In this market, they probably did.
In an already weak farm system, they have up their No.2 for garbage.
Prospects aren’t guaranteed. Cashner may not pan out, but if you’re in the race you have to try.
IDK, as a Giants fan who has seen Cashner pitch a ton of times, I feel like he’s closer to garbage than good. I’m just happy the Giants didn’t get him. I’d hate to waste prospects on him plus we already have a headache in Samardzija.
Naylor is good, below avg defender but his bat is legit. SD will be a problem for the west in a couple years.. they have a lot of promising young players. I hope Cashner can prove me wrong and be a solid back end of the rotation guy in Mia. I like their team. Hate their uni’s like their team
sfg415sfc – Not trying to hate on the Giants – But I said before Samardzija was going to be a pain in the @$$ for SF. 90 Million dollar pain in the @$$.
With SF struggleing this is NOT the time to be going through a funk. All teams do it, the Cubs did it, but the earlier the better. SF funked last year and missed the post season. St.L funked late last year but got out the gate early but it caught up with them in the NLDS.
Being honest and not hating SF has to make a move in the next 2 days. LA right on your tail, and if your going to avoid a WC somebody in your front office better get off their @$$. Just keeping it real man. Good luck the rest of the way via a Cubs fan. No hate just talking baseball
Josh Naylor
Miami is getting rea as well
Bye Naylor
definitely a good addition for SD, waiting to see who else they were able to get from the Marlins. I suspect SD gets atleast one ranked pitching prospect.
#3 prospect Josh Naylor is headed to San Diego
Rea too? Can’t wait to see what all the Marlins gave up.
Naylor+ this is not good for Miami and sensational for SD already.
Cashner is kind of not good. Rea is even worse. Miami could have gotten better quality if Naylor was on the table IMO.
Obviously not. Baseball teams are not run by morons (Diamondbacks excluded). They more than likely did their due diligence and figured out that it was the best they could get. Better to use Naylor as a trade chip now when you have a good shot at a WC instead of waiting for him to blossom and being behind the Phillies and Braves. The Marlins are in a fairly unique situation in the NL East. They are always going to be behind big spenders. The Rays are in a similar situation in the AL East., You have to take your chances when they are available..
Agreed Ray Ray, I think this is a good play for Miami, Rea is controllable and can develop better than where he sits now.
True on Arizona. Can’t think of a smart move that team has made this season, or over the winter and have a history of poor deals going back a cpl years.. Might be time to clean out the front office before they lose everything.
Miami is in a bad/sticky way, yet they have so little in the system. Not had a chance to lay eyes on Naylor during one of my trips to Ft Myers to watch to Sox Ft Myers GCL team. Only caught the Twins and Orioles so far as visiting opponents. Shame as like to catch all the teams in the GCL each year in the North and South.
The Segura deal has worked out great for Arizona actually. No one could have seen Miller being this bad and injuries to Pollock, De La Rosa, Owings, Peralta and Greinke have killed the team. Being back in contention next year is not out of the question, once those pieces get healthy and once they rebuild the back of the bullpen with Ziegler gone and Hudson rumored to be nearly gone.
I agree with you, ’16 is lost, but no reason ’17 cannot be a good year. Miller is surely humbled and wants to regain what he had, and I hope he does. Even as a Braves fan, when they trade players away I still hope for their success.
They also gave up Isan Diaz who has been raking in the minors, especially over the last two months
“Baseball teams are not run by morons”
That is a VERY debatable comment.
He hasn’t seen our clown car in Chicago, obviously.
Jerry Reinsdorf, Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and Robin Ventura. I don’t think I need to say anything beyond that.
I also agree with Ray Ray – People are quick to judge and quarterback teams until they own them or run them via President or GM and you have to make fast decisions with someone else’s money and produce results with NO excuses to your boss aka the owner. Think it is a good move for Miami. Miami is weird that it is in the middle of the pack a HARD place to advance. It like making the play offs but only good to make it and getting ousted in the first round. You don’t win a title yet you can get a good draft choice. Kinda via NFL. Being small market I think they are doing good with how they have set themselves up. At least they did something. There is only 3 days left, and SP are very very rare. They either will cammand a kings ransom or very little. But your not getting Bum or Sale for nothing.
This is just a new baseball reality that GMs notice because they’re living in it… but fans are struggling to adjust to because they aren’t on the phones with other GMs…
The gap in value between pitchers and hitters in today’s game is about as large as it has ever been. While some of these trades would appear lopsided as recently as two years ago, the landscape has shifted so sharply that it’s difficult to say. We clearly need to re-calibrate how we review trades moving forward.
Wow! Will Naylor be as good as Rizzo that Pads gave up to get Cashner?
I had forgotten Cashner landed the Cubs Rizzo. What a deal in retrospect.
Yeah BUT you never know. It all a crap shoot in sports. Rizzo wasn’t good at all in SD. Really he was pretty bad and then just went into another world. But things like that are rare.
I always said – Their are no EXPERTS in MAJOR SPORTS. ANY SPORT. This is what teams deal with day in and day out. Stats, minor league, another team even WAR means nothing. That can change in a dime on another team. Some for the good, some for the bad. You could get CK from the LA Dodgers and next year he post a 5.45 ERA and goes 5 – 18. Would you call that trade a bust?
People are human, this is the PROS. Professional MLB – their are NO EXPERTS, THERE ARE NO 100% guarantees.
Rizzo never got a fair shot in San Diego. He would have been just as good if they had kept him.
Doubtful.
Shouldn’t matter. Different GMs. Preller isn’t responsible for making up all the lost value in Byrnes’ deals. It does need to be noted, however, that the Byrnes traded Rizzo because of the Alonso acquisition. The thought was that Alonso’s line drive profile played better in Petco than Rizzo’s home run profile. They were clearly wrong, but Preller turned Alonso into Pomeranz… and then he turned Pomeranz into Anderson Espinoza.
Essentially, Preller took two of the worst Byrnes moves and turned them into the 15th ranked prospect in baseball, and a guy in Naylor who had tremendous power potential.
Good night sweet bearded prince.
I guess Naylor makes up for the pick Pads gave up for signing Shields.
This is the Marlins selling out to try and win a World Series. They know they will not have the chance to once Jose Fernandez leaves in a few years, at least for a while. Naylor and some (if there are additional pieces) is a lot to give up for Cashner and Rea. However, the market seems to have put a premium on pitching. I will say, I actually like the Rea acquisition a lot more than Cashner. The Padres are acquiring some nice long term assets. Let’s hope they can eventually turn them into a winner.
Sure hope the Rangers get something out of this deadline. Last year they did with Cole hamels but the last five years have been kinda silent. They need to move Gallo and brinson
Ichiro’s gone
Nah, they want him for the 3k hits
Fernandez
Conley
Cashner
Koehler
Chen
Marlins rotation is solid
Cashner is a horrible #3 though. He has a 4.94 FIP and 4.76 ERA. Those are #5 numbers.
Glad to see that the Marlins are going for it this season for the city of Miami. Not a huge fan of some of the things their owner has done in the past, but he has at least shown a willingness to pay money IF he thought they had a chance. These aren’t top of the rotation type pitchers, but they are possible improvements on what the fish already had healthy. Good move.
After I post this, I’ll be heading down to Petco Park to check in with the Padres about joining their rotation. I figure I can slot right in behind back-up C Christian Bethancort, who also throws a mean 94 mph fastball! Rule 5 pick, Luis Perdomo says, “Wow, I didn’t think I’d become SD’s number one started so quickly!”
* starter
Even though he’s injured, I would love if the major leaguer was Carter Capps. Could slot into the back end of the bullpen next year once he’s healthy and possibly get flipped to a contender at next year’s deadline.
Your wish is granted obviously.
Good call
Mendez for Hellickson or Matuella and Sadzeck for Hellickson?
MLB Central is saying Luis Castillo is part of the deal as well.
Pretty nice 100 mph throw-in if that’s the case
I’m surprised Loria didn’t try to get the city of Miami to foot the cost of the trade. “Cashner and Rea to the Marlins for 2 square blocks of Little Havana and a Miami Beach time share to be named later”
Who’s left to pitch for the Padres? Call Austin Hedges up and move Christian Bethancourt to the rotation.
Who cares really? 2016 is already a lost season for the Padres so they would be better off getting top 5 draft pick while letting the youth get MLB experience.
Hey towel tosser…not yet. I have a big win/loss bet in vegas! 72 is my #. Remember…it’s only gambling if you lose!
Castillo too? Wow
I don’t quite get it, he’s 30-49 in his career and numbers like those yet with all the trade rumors you’d think it was the second coming of Tom Seaver.
Better off citing his 4.76 ERA this year (82 ERA ) than his Career W-L record
Carry harder
Are you citing w-l records as if they are significant? This isn’t 1972 anymore. Cashner has good stuff, decent peripherals and is 29; he’s a pure rental because he’s a FA after the season. Most teams think they can fix him, but his real issue in’t the stuff, it’s that he can’t stay healthy and tries to pitch through pain. The haul the Padres got for him looks nice, but arms are always risky and 1B-only prospects need to really rake. Cosart’s just a back end of rotation guy.
Won-loss record is irrelevant.
Apparently not, because it basically says the same thing that everything else says. Cashner is a very mediocre starter.
Cashner could be 100-0 in his career with all other stats remaining the same and my opinion of him wouldn’t change.
It most certain would be, if all of the other numbers weren’t also below average.
Delete your account if you think W/L record matters
Nope, don’t think I will. Anyone who thinks w/l doesn’t matter for starters will get fooled every time. Some competitors just win. You don’t have to throw a shut out every time out or strike out everyone to be a good pitcher. Give me the Pitcher who just wins.
Okay. Which one of these guys do you want for your team? 1997 Willie Blair or 2005 Aaron Small? (Hint: they both absolutely sucked during their fluke win seasons and never pitched well before, after, or during those fluke seasons). Pitcher wins meant something in the days before bullpen specialization. That was a long time ago.
So Naylor, Castillo and Cosart? I think Padres did well in this deal.
Excellent deal by the Padres.
I’m thinking this is a steal for the Padres.
And Carter Capps to SD (and Guerrero to Miami too)
I think that it helps for us to clear some space on the 40 man roster by sending Guerrero. We have some decent bullpen arms that arm going to be Rule V eligible next season that we can protect. Hopefully we can clear a couple more spots and trade away Norris and Jay.
Go Padres! This is what you have to do to have a solid young group of players. The Royals, Pirates, Astros, and Cubs all went this route and now look at them. I’m glad they are choosing this direction. Go Padres!
The only other the person I would want them to to trade before the deadline is Norris. Come on Padres, make it happen!
Norris is as good as gone, only problem is they’re selling really low on him right now.They’ll move Jay in August also and maybe they’ll find a sucker to take Kemp, although the Padres will probably have to eat the whole contract.
The Twins went that route too. It doesn’t always work out well.
Twins still have a solid young core in place for a years
Sooner or later the Marlins farm system may be worse than the Angels. What an overpay.
Not in the slightest. Y’all are WAY too prospect-centered. Padres got a 1B-only guy with a “20” speed rating. In other words, they got a single A version of Dan Vogelbach, which means nothing even worth talking about (if you disagree, play around with the WAR calculators and figure out how good a hitter he’d have to be to even be league average, as a 1B only guy with negative base-running and defensive value). Cosart is near the of the line. Capps is the only real value they got, and he’s out until next year and a huge question mark.
Meanwhile, Cashner is hot and Rea is young and very talented. I love this deal for the Marlins. They can replace the minor league talent they gave up with an international FA splurge any time. And Padres literally have no one to pitch the rest of the season. They’ll draw 10,000 fans a game if they’re lucky.
10 steals with 20 speed? What jumps he must have.
Who the heck cares about the speed of a 1B???
Wow. Carter Capps too. Holy crap.
Serious? Definite win for Padres!
Naylor must not be considered an elite talent or this is a big overpay. Cant judge a deal like this right now
He’s not. He’s a (very) poor man’s Dan Vogelbach.
Somebody likes him or he wouldn’t be the 100th MLB prospect, picked #12 in the draft last year, or the #2 Marlins prospect!
Yes, if he is that awful, says quite a lot about the Marlin’s farm system to be their #2..
It feels like the price for pitching is escalating ridiculously with each trade. I can only imagine what a guy like Archer will command by the end of the weekend!
And Archer is another mediocre pitcher somehow in high demand.
Gotta love people acting like 19 year olds can be comped with 23 year olds! Newsflash: their bodies haven’t even stopped growing yet smh smh smh
He’s 19 and has had 475 professional PA’s with a .752 OPS. Lay off with the projections, its too early. He’s 100% not anything like Vogelbach, what a silly comp to make at this juncture.
He’s a bad-bodied, slugging 1B only guy drafted out of HS. Vogelbach circa 2012 is a pretty natural comparison to make, Though Vogelbach spent his first full professional season (in which he was almost a year older than Naylor is now) in short-season ball compared to Naylor already in Low-A now, and played a lot more baseball growing up in Orlando than Naylor did in Mississauga.
He made he top 100 mid season ranks so he’s something.
Carter Capps is also included with Tyron Guerrero going back to the Marlins. I don’t believe the Marlins needed Naylor, Cosart was expendable, Capps can’t stay healthy, but Castillo was a big piece to lose as most of their better farm pitchers are lefties.
Honestly it really looks like an even trade for both teams. Good work by both GMs.
If Capps can come back from surgery…that is a solid haul for SD, definitely an overpay…just not sure by how much.
Yes, and imagine what they could ship a healthy Capps off for this time next year. He alone is worth more than Cashner/Rea.
Complete overpay by the Marlins.
2 years of capps, 3.5 of cosart, Naylor who could be used as trade bait if they lock up myers long term, and castillo
For couple months of cashner, 4.5 years of rea who strikes out less and walks more, and guerrero who has been a disappointment since they signed him in 2009.
Preller is amassing some pretty formittable talent.
In two months he’s taken them from bottom half to probably the best (deepest) farm in baseball? Through trades, draft, and international signings, nice rebuild Padres.
SD is doing nice things, but I still dont think they have the best or deepest farm system. I’m not sure I would even have them in the top 5.
I would say right this moment they have a middle of the pack farm system. That could change soon due to all of the trades and international signings. But until they have some playing time under their belts and show that they are who the Padres think they are you can’t really rate them much higher than that.
Agreed, SD is barely top 10 right now, but that could change in the next couple days/months.
Law I believe has the Padres coming in around no 2 overall
when you get rankings of the J2 signings, where they got numbers 2,4,6,8,10,12, 25,28,29, along with 5 guys in 1st 2 rounds of MLB draft, it really will boost them up
I think Anderson Espinoza is top 5 SP prospect in baseball? Think Manny Margot (best CF prospect) and Hunter Renfroe is under ranked on most prospect list. I probably personally over-rate Morejon but rank him over every pitcher from the last draft. Think Chris Paddack and Logan Allen both deserve top 75 consideration and Luis Urias should be rated above Nayor on Padres top 10. At best I’d slot Nayor in at #8 (he’s #100 on MLB midseason list) and not sure I’d put him ahead of Quantrill, Laurer or Ona (7m signing)..
Others like Buddy Reid, Gettys, Rondon, Guerra, De Los Santos, Dickerson, Arias, Allen, Maton,Lawson, Almanzar make up better than good depth imo. Add Castillo and Rodriguez who both throw upper 90’s and I start seeing too much depth to not rank top 3. Just consider #24 ranked Alex Dickerson, hass homered in 4 major league games in a row since taking Upton Jr. spot. Padres are going to have a major league OF log jam and A ball rotation log jam the rest of the season.
Plus the players obtained so far on the International free agent market, Padres system is without doubt top 5 at worst.
sorry but SD doesn’t even have the best or deepest farm system in their own division……
They might not even be second, depending on how high you are on the Rockies system, but it certainly is building. They got 3 quality first rounders in the draft, and a ton of talent back for Cashner+, Rodney, Pomeranz and Kimbrel
Looks like a pretty even trade. At a quick glance we can say the Padres won, but you never know with prospects.
If the Marlins make the playoffs, you could easily say that they won.
Wait, is that the new way to grade deadline trades? Did buying team make playoffs? Because that means Oakland won the Addison Russell/Jeff Samardzija trade. You sure you want to go there? Or how about we stop forcing the W/L dynamic on something so volatile as trades unless you feel very strongly about it.
I think the Padres won this trade, because Cashner and Rea are barely adequate innings eaters, and not guys you want starting playoff games, giving up your 2015 1st round pick along with an injured dominant closer and an arguably-similar SP and good prospect is not worth what they got back. I don’t like Cashner at all, period. He’s bad at pitching due to inconsistency and just general lacking of stuff.
Does he rind you of Mike Peavy? lol
Peller did very well in this trade. Marlins must be done shopping unless they are going to trade from the ML roster, that farm is barren.
Wow that is a ton to give up for 2 months of Cashner (who hasn’t pitched well this season) and Colin Rea (who Padres fans hoped would become a #4 starter).
What a haul for San Diego! Miami really is selling every piece that can’t help them win now. Carter Capps is the real kicker here. Baseball10 is right, can’t judge this kind of a deal now, but from the onset this will benefit both teams, Miami in the short term and San Diego long term.
Solid deal for the Marlins. We give up Naylor, who at his best, will likely be a DH-only type in the future at a position that we’re set at for awhile (Bour). Although Capps can be an asset in the future, the Marlins have a ton of high upside arms in that bullpen.. So I think the risk to give up a guy who just had Tj surgery is worth it.. He’s not a safe bet. Nor is Castillo, who can become great, but will likely becomes a bullpen arm. The risky part is mainly giving up a controllable Cosart, who I think will bounce back as a solid 2/3 type next year… Don’t get me wrong, we gave up some decent talent, but I think Cashner will be great No 3 for us and secure us a playoff spot at the very least, which is what we need NOW.. and I think Rea will develop into a very good No 4 guy for us and since he’s under control, he’ll be here for awhile.. For the future, hoping Chen bounces back next season and Conley maintains his performance.
Pros for Marlins
1. Get Cashner who can be the top of the rotation starter they need to get to the playoffs..
2. Get both Rea and Guerrero who are controllable and provide depth.
Pros for Padres
1. Get Naylor who in a year or two could be a top 50 prospect.
2. Get Cosart who is basically Collin Rea with less team control and Castillo who’s similar to Guerrero with probably more upside because he’s younger and still a starter.
3. Get Carter Capps for almost nothing, maybe the Marlins had injury concerns? No idea why the Marlins would give up a good reliever (even an injured one) when other teams are paying premiums for them.
the real haul is Capps, considering what relievers go for on the market
if hes healthy hes going to bring back quite a good haul, likely some AA type players.
He could slot as the 8th inning guy, but my guess is that they plan on him being the closer at some point next year
“Pros for Marlins
1. Get Cashner who can be the top of the rotation starter they need to get to the playoffs”
In what world is Cashner a TOR type of starter? He’s the definition of inconsistent.
Here’s the way I look at it most people would view a guy like Garrett Cole as a TOR type starter, he throws lots of heavy 4 seam fastballs, sliders, and changeups. This mix generates about 50% ground balls, which plays well in most matchups. Cole also has a career Siera below 4.0 which is also attractive. Guess what Cashner also throws a heavy 4 seamer, a slider, and change, he also generates 50% ground balls and has the almost the exact same GB/FB ratio as Cole. Cashner also has a Siera below 4.0. Cashner has been inconsistent but there’s no way to quantify his inconsistency so obviously the Marlins are taking a chance on his upside. Is Cashner a TOR type starter, well if you think Cole is then in my opinion he is as well.
You can’t be seriously comparing Cashner to Cole. Cashners SIERA is 4.47 this season, which is considered Poor. His career SIERA is a mute point considering his inability to stay healthy and his 2.5-3 years as a reliever, but his career SIERA is still considered nothing more than average at 3.87. Cole’s career SIERA on the other hand is 3.39 which is considered to be very above average.
Cashner has two pitches, fast ball and change up, he never throws the slider, and his location on his change up is terrible. He only throws his change up about 10% of the time anyway… Unless he starts trusting his stuff and learning a third or fourth pitch, he will
never be more than a 4th/5th starter.
He’s thrown his slider 25% this year whereas his changeup as only been used 10%. So he does have three pitches. As far as all the SIERA stuff I said a career SIERA below 4.o never said it was lower than that of Cole. All I was saying is that they use the same stuff to get outs and that’s justified by similar GB/FB ratios. Cole’s career SIERA is a bit better but he also pitches in home ballpark which deflates right handed power. Petco doesn’t do that nearly as well as it used to.
Aj Preller, just when I start hating on you for the return you got from Upton Jr. you come out and do this. Wow, what a win by the Padres.
The system has little to no first base prospects so Naylor fills that void. Darren Balsley gets a young project in Jared Cosart to tinker with and try to re-establish what was a promising start to his career w/Houston. Capps, who when healthy is the hands down one of the filthiest relievers in the game.
Andrew Cashner gave up 1.47 homers per 9 in San Diego, so Miami’s park probably won’t help him and his 4.94 FIP. Rea has a 4.75 FIP, and a way below average k/9 rating of 6.89. This trade will definitely benefit San Diego in the future. Josh Naylor was a first round draft pick for a reason. Trading Carter Capps and his 16.84 k/9 will probably come back to bite the Marlins.
Highway robbery by the Padres imo
I think this deal would be fair if Naylor wasn’t in it. Cashner & Rea are simply not good pitchers. They are literal innings eaters and nothing more. Both of them are about as good as Cosart is. I do not think this makes the Marlins better now and in the future. I think the Padres got rid of three pretty mediocre talents for three potentially elite ones and a pretty mediocre one who is basically the same as the guys they gave up.
Aaron Harang is an innings eater. Cashner is a No 2 or 3 when healthy, so for the short term I do think this makes them better than the Cosart, Urena tandem. Obviously though since the Marlins don’t even get a comp pick for Cashner it’s not a good trade unless he gets them to the playoffs or better.
This is absolutely terrible for the Marlins. Theres giving up prospects for good talent to help you win, then there is unloading your farm system and giving up upside-ridden young talent for a couple of meh SPs and a meh reliever
Getting Naylor out of the garbage heep that the Padres sent over is a pretty good return. Good job Preller
All 4 players going to the Padres are pretty good (if you’re not yet sour on Cosart)
Cosart doesn’t really matter much. He’ll pitch the remaining of this year, if they don’t like what they see, they simply decline to offer him a contract and wash their hands. It’s a pure flier and they have the available innings.
Getting Capps when he’s half way done rehabbing, is a great get for a pen that needs reinforcements. Plus…..did you see the Chapman return!
I’m surprised they threw in Capps for this trade. It already looks pretty good without him, but throwing him in makes it even better. Hopefully he comes back healthy next year so they could then possibly flip him for more prospects at a later time.
SD paying more money for players not to play for them. if they agree to a Kemp trade and pay his money they basically will be paying for two teams lol.
Eh, if it means getting some better cake in return, they might as well do it. This is a lost season for the Padres anyway, so they should just be focusing on rebuilding well.
Theres really nothing the padres can do money wise to increase their chances of making the playoffs/winning the world series in 2017 or 2018.
The money the padres are paying shields, upton, and casher+rea through this deal comes off the books by end of 2019.
2019 is theoretically when the padres talent is up and mlb ready.
So any money they sacrifice now and next 2 years doesnt mean much as it has no impact on the ability to suppliment the squad with talent come 2019 and beyond.
But, signing low cost veterans and trading them in 2017 and 2018 for prospects while gaining talent from higher draft position in 2017 and 2018 puts them in a very good situation.
They could trade kemp, give the team majority of his money in 2017 and 2018 off the padres books say $50-70 million thus making the acquiring team responsible for 2019 2020 2021 which the padres clear that contract while not affecting 2019 or beyond.
Wow, what a trade!
I think this really helps out both teams quite well. Miami gets two pitchers to help them out in their playoff push (one of which can be controlled for a while) and the Padres get a nice mix of prospects and ML-level players. Maybe the change of scenery will help Cashner reach his potential, and Rea might become a good back-end starter for the Marlins.
Preller is really going to work right now with the deadline looming. I’m thinking he’s going to shop off Norris next.
Yup, I’m hoping the Padres trade Norris to either the Astros for RHP Joe Musgrove or to the Braves for RHP Touki Touissant. That hinges on Lucroy going to the Indians, if that doesn’t happen then Cleveland can have interest as well.
Yeah, they key is when/where will Lucroy be traded. After that, the market will be set a little more for Norris to be moved.
Maybe if Ross somehow makes it back this year and pitches well, perhaps he could be traded in the offseason or next season?
Preller has done an awesome job overall. Taking on Upton Jr. and Kimbrel turned out to be a huge move, the Myers deal looks to be favoring the Padres currently, he turned two non-tender guys into an all star LHP and traded him for a top 20 prospect. He signed a washed up reliever who made the ASG, and traded him for a solid prospect, and now his deal netted him a hopefully solid 1-2 punch at the back end starting next year (Capps and Maurer), in addition to a few very promising prospects. Int’l signings are risky, but by signing so many top 30 players in the class, odds are one or two of them will pan out. His biggest ? Remaining is the Hudson Sanchez pick.
Alonso wasn’t a non-tender guy
he was going to be
No he wasn’t
You are not serious are you? That is sarcasm. It must be. Because no one that is actually paying attention would say that and be serious.
Preller is bound and determined to lose 100 games this season, regardless of what it takes. Trade away 4 starting pitchers in one season, done. Only get back one awful starter for this year and a guy that is 4 years away. Done.
the only one decent (as in above league avg) was Pomeranz who we gave literally nothing for
the team is a 90 loss team with Shields, Cashner, Rea, and Pomeranz who cares
Isn’t that kind of the point though, since they are obviously rebuilding now? The more they lose, the better their draft position is, and It’s pretty obvious at this point that Preller is focusing on stocking up talent for 2019 and beyond.
And you’re complaining about the return on an inconsistent starting pitcher who was gone after this season, traded or otherwise?
Honestly I would have preferred this trade without them swapping Rea and Cosart
If they didn’t include Rea then they probably would’ve gotten a weaker return
Dunno bout that. Rea and Cosart are of similar value except Rea has one more year of control than Cosart.
Padres wouldn’t have gotten a legit prospect for just Cashner, who isn’t really that good and is about to be a FA. Rea is a fungible pitcher – he has good stuff but hasn’t had great results. Playing in front of San Diego’s terrible defense probably doesn’t help – it will be interesting to see the difference in Cashner and Rea pitching in front of the outstanding Marlins defense.