This post addresses a fairly straightforward subject: next moves for the White Sox. Yet I’ve re-written it about three times since I started, since the club keeps changing its roster.
Just look at some of the notable moves from the last ten days:
- Acquire SP James Shields
- Designate 1B/OF Jerry Sands
- Designate SP Mat Latos
- Sign 1B Justin Morneau
- Promote SS Tim Anderson
- Designate SS Jimmy Rollins
- OF Austin Jackson to DL for at least 6 weeks
- RPs Daniel Webb, Jake Petricka out for season
Okay, yes, I broke up some of those combined transactions for effect. But for mid-June, that’s a lot of action! Latos and Rollins were both important buy-low, fill-in pieces that Chicago hoped would bolster a top-heavy roster. Those experiments ended early, with pricier (Shields) and glitzier (Anderson) replacements brought in. Sands was also sent out, and the club suffered three notable injuries. Oh, and Chicago finally added that Adam LaRoche replacement … except that it’s largely unknown when Morneau will suit up.
Despite all the movement, it’s not clear that the organization is really much better situated than it was ten days back. There’s a nice step up from Latos to Shields — despite the latter’s immense struggles through two outings — and some worthwhile rolls of the dice, but the injury hit likely saps any gains and there’s risk aplenty.
That creates a bit of a dilemma for GM Rick Hahn and his staff. None of the recent changes have been too terribly dramatic, but they are a bit committing. Chicago will reportedly owe Shields $27MM, which ain’t nothing, and gave up Erik Johnson to get him — taking away the team’s most plausible “next starter up.” And going with Anderson leaves Chicago exposed to the variance of young talent; if he isn’t quite ready, Rollins won’t be around to step back in.
Having started the acquisition process in early June, with the club hovering around .500, there’s still time to reverse out at the deadline if things really go south. But the first round of moves still begs for a counterpart — another addition or two that ramp this up from a minor makeover to a reasonably substantial renovation of the parts of the roster that are most in need. The division is still there for the taking, with a Wild Card berth an achievable consolation prize in a tightly-bunched American League.
Moving on the market at this stage means picking from among a few highly-motivated selling organizations. In all likelihood, not all of the players mentioned in my recent post ranking the ten top trade candidates are available yet. That results in a fairly limited field and likely would require the White Sox to be aggressive in its offers.
So, what areas could Chicago target?
Outfield
True, the addition of Morneau supplies the left-handed first base/DH option that LaRoche once was. But he’s not providing plate appearances right now and there’s no time to lose. Plus, with Jackson down for at least six weeks, and not performing terribly well anyway, there’s still a need in the outfield.
Without Jackson around, the South Siders are reduced to shifting Adam Eaton back to center and utilizing defensively-deficient regulars Melky Cabrera and Avisail Garcia at the corners. It’s certainly not an optimal mix, at least from a fielding perspective, and there isn’t much promise among the organization’s internal options.
Adding a center-field capable player, who could either share time with Jackson down the line or operate as a frequent fourth outfielder, would seem optimal. It’s not often that there’s a readily-available fit this time of year, but Jon Jay of the Padres may be just what’s needed. He is solid with the glove and with the bat, would create some additional platoon options with Jackson (though the latter doesn’t generally carry significant platoon splits), and he’s a reasonably-priced rental. Jay would add real value now — while Jackson and Morneau remain unavailable — and be useful once they return.
Some might tab Jay Bruce of the Reds here: he’s eminently available and is slugging again. But he’d have made more sense before the addition of Morneau, since he’s best suited as a DH given his abysmal fielding metrics. Adding Bruce now would boost the offense some, but wouldn’t do much for run prevention.
It’s also arguable that the team should wait in this area. Players like Josh Reddick and Carlos Gonzalez could be made available later, but probably aren’t realistic options in the near term. And if the team is willing to look at right-handed hitters, Ryan Braun could be in consideration. But these players will come with a higher acquisition cost, aren’t options in center, and likely won’t solve the immediate need.
A middle-ground approach could involve making a run at Carl Crawford. He isn’t an option in center at this stage of his career, but he’s been a solid-enough hitter and fielder who adds value with his legs. Plus, he can be employed for the league minimum. Crawford would provide a near-term solution — at least, a reasoanble upgrade over the likes of Sands and J.B. Shuck — while leaving the club free to assess and act accordingly over the next six weeks.
Bullpen
Chicago reportedly has interest in a pen lefty, and odds are a marginal upgrade wouldn’t be considered. The White Sox have three relief southpaws at present; all are useful, but none represent true set-up options. Zach Duke has basically been a LOOGY this year, dominating same-handed hitters while struggling mightily against righties. Dan Jennings has lost velocity and his whiff rate is down, to go with an already-troubling propensity for the free pass, even if the results are good so far. And Matt Purke, a reclamation project, has been surprisingly solid, but it’s hard to count on him for much.
In short, there’s no need for a solid southpaw, because Chicago has those. But an impact arm that would could slot into a set-up role in front of closer David Robertson would be intriguing. At present, it’s not entirely clear who that might be, however. Will Smith of the Brewers and Sean Doolittle of the Athletics would qualify, but their extended control would make for steep asking prices. Perhaps there’s an argument to be made that Fernando Abad is good enough to push for an early strike, but it’s hard to see that kind of addition moving the needle too forcefully.
The unfortunate realization that Petricka and Webb aren’t coming back this year also opens some additional need and opportunity in the pen. Petricka, in particular, has given the ChiSox a lot of solid frames in recent years, and the club could respond by bolstering its right-handed unit. Nate Jones, Matt Albers, and Zach Putnam are useful set-up options, so there isn’t a pressing need here, but this is probably the easiest area for a team to add depth throughout the year.
Catcher
This may be a low likelihood area to make a change, but it’s hard to ignore the fact that Dioner Navarro and Alex Avila have combined to underwhelm both with the bat and behind the plate. Both are playing on one-year contracts, too, and there’s long-term uncertainty at the position.
The backstop ranks are fairly thin all around baseball, and the Sox don’t need another solid second catcher type. They have that on hand already. If the team is going to look at this position, it’d be looking for a significant upgrade.
Jonathan Lucroy remains the top dog on our list of the biggest trade chips, and he’d be a great target. Lucroy has been at the top of his game in all regards, remains cheap this year and next, and could also see action at first or DH. Trouble is, other organizations surely see him the same way, and the Brewers are said to be asking for a lot.
There are some other possibilities, but it’s not clear that they represent enough of a bump over Navarro and Avila to warrant the outlay that would be required. Derek Norris of the Padres and Welington Castillo of the Diamondbacks are, however, at least worth considering — though it’s unknown whether and when the latter will be made available.
Starter
Yes, the team just added Shields. But with their new righty struggling, Carlos Rodon still looking more like a wild card than a playoff starter, and Miguel Gonzalez more serviceable than sensational, there’s still a conceivable need here.
Plus, there may be a little bit of a two-for-one possibility at play. It may or may not be something the team would ever consider, but adding a rotation piece could allow it to put Rodon into the back of the pen, where he could be a force. He’d still offer rotation depth, provide a long-relief option, and might well dominate — all while clearing the way for a starter who is perhaps better able to contribute every fifth day right now.
Regardless of whether that concept holds water, and despite already checking this box, picking up a real rotation upgrade still holds appeal. That could take many forms: a sturdy rental (Jeremy Hellickson?), a play for the top short-term arm available (Rich Hill, arguably, at least once he returns), another Shields-like gambit (Ervin Santana, perhaps?), or a higher-performing, controllable piece (Julio Teheran?).
Of course, acquiring a more impactful starter would raise the possibility of parting with a significant return. And that would likely implicate Carson Fulmer, last year’s top draft pick. A decent portion of his draft stock was tied up in the belief that he’d make it to the majors quickly, but he has encountered some bumps in the road at Double-A. Rather than hoping for a sudden ascension, perhaps it’s time to cash Fulmer in.
Reverse Course?
All those areas to improve arguably point to quite a different conclusion, though. The White Sox aren’t playing all that well and aren’t projected to do much more. They have lots of needs. And without significant prospect capital to work with, they’re faced with the options of clearing out the farm and/or taking on some major future salary commitments.
It’s certainly arguable that this just isn’t the time to go for it. A densely-packed division provides opportunity, but also means there are a lot of teams to outperform. Chicago could position itself as the top seller, depending upon who it’d be willing to spin off, were it to make a beeline back to port after charting a course for contention in rough seas. It’s also possible that the team could hold that out as a back-up plan even if it does seek additional early strikes via trade.
The one path that seems least desirable, perhaps, is a half-hearted buying effort that harms the future without really boosting the team’s chances at present. Hahn has said that he believes strongly in the core of this roster, so perhaps it’s time to act boldly to surround it with a few more strong pieces. Without a mix of new blood (some solid fill-ins and/or a significant addition or two), the Sox may be in need of some breaks to remain in the hunt in the AL Central.
yankees500
They also promoted Tyler Danish, one of their top ten prospects.
chisoxfan 2
They sent Danish down this morning.
majorpowergame
Mr. Hahn, I hear Centerfielder Jacoby Ellsbury loves Chicago….
Strauss
The white sox do NOT have a top prospect. They haven’t had a non pitcher prospect that has panned out in years. I believe Reinsdorf is gone, either by choice or not. Williams seems to be in charge the last few years and we’ve seen how that’s worked out. The minor league staff can’t produce any help the the sox, the scouting department isn’t helping at all, and Williams and Hahn do NOT know how to build a team. It’s unfortunate that Cleveland has the Browns and Chicago has the white sox. Thanks Williams.
Kayrall
I’m not so sure that Hahn is the root of the Sox’ situation. I am convinced that were he not bootstrapped by Kenny Williams’ old philosophy (which is thoroughly backed by Reinsdorf) things would be much different. He probably would not have Ventura right now and the Sox farm would be much more highly touted. As others have pointed out, the system took an obvious step forward when Hahn took over, but they have been slowly reverting back to their old ways.
ASapsFables
“I believe Reinsdorf is gone, either by choice or not.” LOL
The only way Jerry Reinsdorf is gone would be by choice, likely selling the ball club sooner rather than later as the 80-year old owner of the White Sox who’s son Michael is apparently only interested in running the Bulls.
How else would JR leave? Impeachment? Assassination? A coupe d’etat?
South_Side757
As much as I’d love the Sox to trade away Sale, Quintana, Eaton, etc, I have ZERO confidence the farm system can develop any position player.
It’s systemic, Reinsdorf is loyal to a fault. Same ppl in the scouting dept for decades. Yeah, maybe a new face or two, but Jerry will always takes his “guys” word for it.
It’s baseball hell
Francisco
They need to stop trading young talent. Shields was a waste and analytics were showing a sharp decline. They were enamored with the Sheilds of years ago. Play the hand they are dealt and see if they can go on a run. If late July comes and they show they are much improved a different story. But at this moment you can’t keep dealing your top prospects.
Steven P.
The Sox did not give up anything even close to a top prospect for Shields
Strauss
The sox have NO top prospects!!!
bbatardo
Jon Jay could be the best target since he is a FA at the end of the year so is just a half year rental. Padres need to free up a spot in the OF to give either Alex Dickerson or Hunter Renfroe some MLB AB’s.
chesteraarthur
They should be doing the opposite of adding.
rickcwik
So the Cubs 109 year rebuilding plan?
chesteraarthur
Yes. They have definitely been rebuilding for 109 years.
Which organization’s future would you rather have right now? Unless you’re completely biased and delusional, you can not tell me you like the future outlook of the white sox more so than that of the cubs.
Cd360
As a Padres fan, thank you for taking shields. You can now understand what we felt every fifth day.
Kayrall
Assuming Jerry’s hand in the organization isn’t as firmly grasped around the front office’s decision-making process as I perceive it to be, they should go the route of recent rebuilders.
The Sox have some extremely valuable assets that could replenish their system in a flash. Again, this would only be prudent assuming that they ditch the ‘trade minor league assets for major league assets’ philosophy and embrace a true talent pipeline over a long period of time.
Strauss
Sox have no extremely valuable assets. And the ones you think they have will not get better under the terrible development staff they have. Thanks again Williams.
Bobby Sweet
Extremely valuable assets, eg Sale, Quintana, Eaton.
Kayrall
Bobby Sweet outlined what I intended by extremely valuable assets. I agree with you that their minor league system for the most part is a barren wasteland, but several guys on the major league roster have HUGE value and potential to bring back big time prospects.
Bobby Sweet
Can you imagine what they’d get for Abreu?
Kayrall
It would be fun to see them pit the Pirates and Mets against one another for Abreu.
Ravens_Last_Place
Yeah. They should start by adding a new GM, new Manager, and 8 starting-caliber position players.
BoldyMinnesota
Trade for Bruce and Barnhart from cincy, if the prospects were there (they aren’t) they should try a pry desclafani as well
Los Calcetines Rojos
Fault of the Reinsdorf era is not keeping up with the league trends. This is a business and business is built on staying ahead or keeping up with the trends. White Sox have failed to do so for 33 years. I won’t go as far as to say they were lucky in ’05 but they were fortunate to have this method they utilize pay off that magical year. Gut feeling when Reinsdorf eventually passes the torch this team is doomed for a complete remodel. from the bottom up.
rickcwik
Are you referring to the Saber trend? What has Billy Beane ever won? If you are referring to the trend of total rebuild it makes more sense. That said, Cubs have been rebuilding for 109 years with nothing to show for it.
stl_cards16 2
So just because a team doesn’t win the World Series, they’re rebuilding?
rickcwik
Im saying over the course of 109 years Cubs have probably rebuilt many times….with nothing to show for it. And this year is no different. Winning regular season means nothing. Nats, Giants and Mets all good teams with good pitching. Tomorrow not promised to anyone.
darenh
You speak the truth.
The Division is wide open this year and the path is set for them. What’ll be interesting is do they go all AJ Preller and get stars? Or do they go with value bets that preserve the prizes their system?
Kayrall
How is that last sentence relevant to the topic other than being from the same city?
Los Calcetines Rojos
You seem to be disrespected somehow and I’m not sure why. Cubs have nothing to do with the White Sox at nearly any level outside of fan fights which is childish so not sure why you say 109 year rebuild. It’s not necessary to rebuild in that manner however, the white sox fail over and over again to identify the fact they do not have the assets required to win and simply delay the possibility of contending because they refuse to trade away a glimmer of hope. They are not the only team to be guilty of this but the idea of “Don’t Stop Believing” died in 2006 when they failed to make it to the postseason. I will say they have PLENTY of assets that could fetch extremely pricey prospect packages. Between Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Eaton, Abreu, and Frazier the team could legitimately be set up for sustained success in the same manner as teams such as the Cubs, Astros, Pirates, Mets, Royals, and Dodgers
sportingdissent
They’re not as far away as you make them seem. They went out and added the wrong pitcher in Shields because they didn’t want to give up assets. They misused the financial flexibility they had, however, and likely still need to add a starter as well as two solid (more than solid, actually) bats. They should target someone like Rich Hill when he’s back from injury, shouldn’t cost too much. As for bats, see about Lucroy and Braun in Milwaukee (as a package), or look to pick up CarGo and Jay Bruce in separate deals. They have the farm to do it, especially when it comes to pitching. Pitching a few years off is something the Sox don’t necessarily need, both if they’re serious about contending now but also because they’ve got the top three in their rotation locked up long term.
Kayrall
They don’t really have the farm to do it. That is the main problem with the organization: anything of value in the minors gets turned into something of value at a higher guarantee with usually lower upside in the majors. There are other underlying problem with development and management, but sustained success should be their ultimate goal, not adding a tiny bit value at the expense of the future to keep the waning hope of the current season alive.
sportingdissent
Yes, they do have the minors to do it. They’ve positioned their minors well the last few seasons, and boast a number of pitching prospects that other organizations would love to have.
You seem to be saying, however, they don’t have the system because they shouldn’t use it in this way. That seems more of a philosophical argument than a contention that they couldn’t make these deals.
The White Sox core is in place and probably about as good a core as you could ask for. If not now, then probably never. It’s easy to say “tear it down” but you don’t tear a .500 team down in June, especially 3 games back of a division lead.
The truth is the White Sox had a chance to tear it down this offseason and choose the other path. Now they’re competing. They need to go out and get impact, star players to fill their holes. Otherwise, the entire front office needs to be fired. If they didn’t want to rebuild fully, they had to know this was the other outcome. Sitting still with trade assets aplenty with lots of high level guys available is simply going to enrage their fanbase as well as their core players.
Steven P.
White Sox prospects that have any value currently: as pitchers:
Fulmer, Adams, Burdi, Cooper, Danish. Hansen…the list drops off sharply after that
Those are not the kind of players I would be dealing. The Sox have a very thin farm system overall, especially with regards to quality position player prospects outside of Collins and Anderson now
stymeedone
Teams in contention should be leery of Rich Hill.; How many innings did he pitch last year? He will probably tire, or be injured down the stretch because of the higher innings count he should reach this year. The stretch run is not the time to have to be watching how you use him. He may be older, but he will have to be treated like a rookie in Sept. and Oct.
Strauss
If you don’t dump the players then DUMP that make believe manager they have.
sportingdissent
Steven – They’ve got at least a dozen lower level but high ceiling players in rookie and A ball that they could trade too.
Yes, I understand you don’t want them dealing those guys. What would you have them do? Wait four years for those guys to develop while simultaneously losing their core?
The WORST thing the White Sox could do is hold on to assets that long term and let the best core of players they probably will ever have go to waste.
bigjonliljon
They should be selling. A hot start seems to have diluted them into thinking they are a playoff team. They are not. They will finish under 500 no matter what they do and will continue to play 2nd fiddle to that other team a few miles north.
Steven P.
Agreed. Just because this team is .500 right now does not mean it is a playoff contender with a couple additions.
The White Sox lack long term stability at almost every position and really need to focus on building a quality future vs. competing in the short term
Band aiding the problem year after year prevents it from being solved
stymeedone
What do you consider “long term stability”? As every rookie is gone as a FA in 6 years, what team actually has long term plans?
Steven P.
I consider long term stability a player under contract for more than two season who is or can perform at a mlb starting caliber level
Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton are all your current core right now and under contract
Position player wise the Sox are not in very good shape with Frazier hitting free agency after next year, a horrible cathing situation, lawrie a mediocre player, anderson promising but still a ? mark, no DH, melky under contract for one more season…and virtually zero mlb ready depth in the minors
theo2016
Actually if you wait until the end of April to call up a rookie you get 7 yrs of control. For instance the cubs have schwarber, bryant, russell for 5 more years after this season is over. They also still have an excellent minor league system of prospects who’s clocks haven’t started yet. For instance they might pull a kris bryant and keep wilson contreras down until the end of April next year for 7 years of control of him, so even when clocks run down on the initial wave, they will have waves of prospects to follow.
chisoxfan 2
Guess you can add signing Slade Heathcott to the list of transactions.
rickcwik
They have to go one of two ways. Total rebuild, or trade for good players now. I have been all for them going after Lucroy. So if they go route of all in on now, get Lucroy. Hell, get Braun too as Brewers want to dump that salary. That one trade solves most of issues. Next year you would have sale, quintana, rodon, shields and fulmer as five starters. Lucroy, abreu, lawrie, anderson, frazier. Melky, eaton, braun, mourneau. At least that is doable to compete.
Steven P.
The White Sox are closer to a rebuild than they are to being a contending team.
Pitching wise they actually are not in bad shape with Sale, Quintana, Rodon plus Fulmer, Adams and Burdi in the pipeline
Where the Sox are lacking is in position players. Outside of Eaton, Abreu, Frazier everyone else is a big question mark or not part of a longer term plan
Strauss
They better get another pitching coach. Cooper has lost his touch and has worn out his welcome. Pitching is the only bright spot in the organization. They better not let him ruin it!
Kayrall
Do you know how many teams would be clamoring to sign cooper if he were let go?
stymeedone
The cost of acquiring Lucroy would include Fulmer. Scratch him from your rotation if Lucroy is behind your plate. If not him, what else would they have to offer? That Fulmer was not an answer for the rotation now, shows that he did not progress as “they” expected, so his value is probably not as high as it once was. Milwaukee isn’t just going to give Lucroy away.
aff10
You have them getting Lucroy in a trade without parting with Fulmer, Anderson, or any of their established major leaguers? How do you propose that happens, because just taking Braun’s contract off their hands won’t entice Milwaukee to part with Lucroy
baumer16
Brewers aren’t interesting in a salary dump for Braun. And who can the White Sox Offer to get either of these two? The White Sox don’t have the prospects to get them. They’re better off just trying to get guys like Jay or someone else and just hope some of their players get hot
bucknerforhall
Turn Sale into
Braun & Lucroy & Hammel OR Hendricks
Sale to the Cubs for Hammel OR Hendricks
Plus the prospects that MILW wants for Braun & Lucroy.
Los Calcetines Rojos
I want whatever you’re smoking
sngehl01
This is absolutely terrible.
bucknerforhall
why terrible?
Hendricks has a era of 3.05.
You get 3 top prospects that MILW likes
& flip them for Lucroy & Braun.
Hendricks, Lucroy & Braun are better than Sale for that team
It would be 12 years of control. ( 5 , 2, & 5 )
Im not a huge WAR fan but – those 3 will easily be higher
vs Sale alone.
Steven P.
That is horrible logic
You do realize that Braun is signed through 2020 for big money and is currently 32 years old?
Lucroy is 30 years old and will be a free agent at the end of this season and will require a substantial contract to sign
Hendricks is pitching well, but his peripherals indicate that he is in line for a regression. a .249 BABIP is not likely to be sustained as well as hitters only batting .208 against him. He is a fringy 3, or a solid 4/5 starter.
If I am trading Sale I want CHEAP, CONTROLLABLE TOP PROSPECTS. Not expensive players like Braun and Lucroy on the wrong side of 30
Steven P.
What?
I am not even going to bother entertaining that garbage idea
Cd360
Why not Trout to the Cubs for Soler? And while you’re at it, get Harper for Torres and trade Theo’s spit for Machado.
nrd1138
Fire Robin, first and foremost he needs to go. Is firing him going to make the team better? Maybe maybe not, but I think 4 years of mediocrity show nothing much will change, especially in the next 30 days. Then have Renteria work with this club, as is, until late July. If they still are floundering, then sell off almost everyone except Sale, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson, and maybe Eaton. Bring up Davidson for Frazier, Coats for Cabrera, and Danny Hayes for Abreu. Everyone else as far as Im concerned is expendable, and many of those are trade-able for prospects. But the same forces keeping Robin as manager would never subscribe to this way of thinking.
Steven P.
You need two or sometimes more to tango when trading. Teams are often very reluctant to part with top prospects so the value you can get in return isn’t necessarily worth trading for
Abreu is heating up and should be just fine.
notagain27
The Sox have several position players that are currently underperforming; but it takes Pitching and Defense to win. I was at a complete loss when they traded for Shields. His pitches lack velo and depth of years past and you don’t need a computer to recognize that, just two eyes. Sox need to be smart and not rush or panic just for the sake of making a move, or they could wind up with someone else’s problem, just like they did with Shields.
Steven P.
Agreed.
The kicker is that the Sox are in pretty good financial shape moving forward with all of their core players, except arguably Frazier, under contract for reasonable money.
Also money will be coming off the books from Danks’ contract, LaRoche’s money is already off the books and Melky Cabrera only has 1 more year remaining on his deal so that will be another 14 million off the books after next season….which if planned for properly a rebuliding this year and next could position the Sox to spend fairly big in a stacked 2018 free agent class
maxmadsen
I like the cheaper ideas of Carl Crawford and Jon Jay, but I won’t lie, if they got Ryan Braun or Lucroy I’d be pretty excited.
Steven P.
Huge no thank you to Carl Crawford, and it would depend on Jay’s asking price
smackofham
Crawford seems like a White Sox kind of move. I think it is likely to happen.
ASapsFables
Tyler Saladino would be an adequate short term insurance policy should Tim Anderson need additional seasoning at AAA. Saladino was already outperforming Jimmy Rollins with the White Sox before the latter was released.
Jeff Todd
Yeah, but the idea was to have him in some sort of platoon with Rollins. Either way, you’re taking away one piece of the puzzle. Not saying it’s not warranted, but the fact that Rollins didn’t really pan out doesn’t help.
ASapsFables
Jimmy Rollins wasn’t the answer. The White Sox should have pursued Ian Desmond, especially when his price dropped as a FA and despite the loss of a compensatory draft pick attached to him.
That being said, the White Sox still have another excellent defensive middle infielder in switch-hitting Carlos Sanchez who could easily platoon with Tyler Saladino and provide the versatility afield that Rollins could not.
unglar
I think they should make some trades this year going for it, and commit to the idea that if they fall short, its time for major changes (GM, Manager, etc..). In my mind that means pulling the trigger and dealing Fulmer and whoever else for a #3 starter, A Jon Jay type player seems perfect, and if they can get Brian McCann or Lucroy that would be ideal. I think their needs and the Yankees haves line up well, Perhaps something like Pineda (buy low, High K/Low BB guy), McCann, and Gardner or Hicks (or even Ellsbury if it makes sense in a package). Hopefully whomever they do end up with, if they lose, they could flip like Beane did with Shark, Lucroy or McCann would fit the bill there.
And if all that fails, well you have the most valuable trade chips for prospects imaginable, Quintana should get a Cole Hamels+ package, a Sale trade will look bad because he is so valuable there isn’t ever going to be a package that is reasonable(ala Mike Trout), so you pick whichever org you like best and take their prospects or something, Abreu should get 1 or 2 top 100’s, D-Rob has value, Eaton has value, and you rebuild with a 2-3 year timeline. Im sure you could get an enormous haul if you dealt Sale and D-Rob together.
Steven P.
I am completely against ransacking our thin minor league system to add mediocre pieces.
Fulmer was a top ten pick last year and the Sox should give him time to develop into a future rotation piece. What you are suggesting would involve the Sox dealing Fulmer, Anderson, Adams and more to add to a flawed team this year?
unglar
Yes, improve now, and then tear it down if it fails. The thin system would easily be a top 10 when you sell Sale and the rest. Otherwise your adding a thin farm system to a flawed roster wasting all the surplus value of Sale and Quintana as you struggle to win, and the value of the prospects as they spend their major league min time on losing teams. The idea that a few homegrown players improve this team enough to contend in a year or two is the worst philosophy they could implement as they have the last four years.
chesteraarthur
I could be wrong, but I feel like you’re saying that the sox need to get off the fence and either decide to really go for it now (trade what they have to win) or just rebuild.
I’d favor the rebuild for them, but i understand the point. They seem to have been stuck in a perpetual re-tooling for half a decade
Steven P.
That all works if you assume that you receive anywhere close to equal value for Sale and Quintana
In reality you rarely will as teams are not willing to completely mortgage their own future in a trade.
Most prospects never develop into mlb regulars. You are giving up huge value in proven players like Quintana and Sale that are not easily replaced
Grantly 2
You’re grossly exaggerating how poor the catchers are with the bat. Calling them one of the worst tandems in the league is really stretching it. They’re a couple points off of average, and absolutely nowhere near the Twins/Rays/Indians down there at the bottom. Dropping Navarro at the deadline would make sense if he’s still hitting poorly and you could get a catcher who was better than him defensively (that’s not hard to do) and could also hit lefties. Norris would be a good option if the Sox also had a good platoon partner in mind. Norris is too weak against righties to be the full time guy so once Avila leaves that’s another hole you’d have to fill.
Jeff Todd
Yeah that wasn’t really a good way of putting my point. They are bat-first catchers who aren’t hitting, but they aren’t horrific with the bat for their position.
kbarn26
If the sox go into a rebuild, it would be a smart idea to fire Robin. But they aren’t, Hahn needs to go after a big name outfielder if they want to take the central.
Cubs_Fan31
The White Sox seem to never fully commit to going for it or rebuilding. There has been a tendency to get players that were good 10 years ago. The farm system is extremely weak right now so it is unlikely they could get top talent simply for Fulmer. I 100% agree that they have the pieces to do a full rebuild and rather quickly. The question is whether or not the appropriate management is in place to conduct that rebuild (pick the right talent, draft and grow internally). If the Braves could get a haul like they did for Shelby Miller, just imagine what the Sox could get for Sale or Quintana. Oh, and no point in giving up Sale for Braun/Lucroy. That would make zero sense. Only way you trade Sale is for a fully committed rebuild.
dodgers4life357
Maybe rich hill then release James shields
dodgers4life357
Or Julio
Gogerty
Franco?
billysbballz
Fulmer is not as big a prospect as mentioned, he is developing and there’s still the big question if he should go back to bullpen full time. I believe his era is north of five this year but I could be mistaken. Someone came up with an idea of a trade with the Yankees. Both teams are compatible in many respects for a trade. The Yanks are in semi rebuild mode as there farm is improving and they have some major league pieces to deal but it’s obvious they are not a playoff team and are unwilling to take on more money. The White Sox farm is really bottom of barrel right now and they have a very good rotation but lack hitting. They also lack bottom of rotation pitchers and could use another bullpen arm. The Yanks could trade Elsbury if they decide or admit they cannot make a run and add some money to deal, also throw in Chapman, Nova, and Pineda. This gives the Sox pieces to make a run. But Fulmer is obviously not enough so are Sox fans willing to trade Fulmer and Rodon? Two big questions marks as it stands for that package? If Sox are going to go for it they may as well go for it this year and if they don’t win it all and can’t resign Chapman they get first round comp pick.
wsox05
So the Sox are going to trade two young rotation pieces for two bad rotation pieces, a RP that will be a FA (can’t get the comp pick like you said) and a guy who has a HUGE contract and is hurt a lot.
Yeah that’s not a good idea for the Sox.
Priggs89
The White Sox farm isn’t even close to “bottom of the barrel.” That would be the Angels. Do they have a great system? Absolutely not. But it’s not as god awful as people try to make it seem.
And Rodon isn’t going anywhere.
bighurt1120
I love Sale, but it may be time to trade our ace. We need to do a kinda quick rebuild and get some exciting young players to pair with guys like Abreu, Eaton, and Frazier. Every one else excluding our pitchers can be had for young talent. I would try matching up with Pittsburgh. Meadows, Glasnow, and Bell would be a good starting point. Two young lefty hitters with pop, and a top of the rotation starter to plug in our rotation.
Gogerty
For Pitt knocking on WC door, that package would probably work for Sale. Have hoped Atlanta could work on a package of Meadows, McGuire, and Bell would be amazing.
Donald sears
the Sox should be sellers starting now as long as ventura is manager not going anywhere
Strauss
FIRE WILLIAMS HAHN AND VENTURA NOW!!!!!
lilojbone
It is a shame that it has taken this long for people to realize the poor job Kenny Williams did with the White Sox. His mentality of winning now hurt the farm system and now when the team wants to compete they have, what most people call “scrubs” to bring to the big leagues. The only thing the White Sox has developed well has been pitchers and I know there will be people who are going to argue against it.
In my opinion, and in all fairness, Hanh took the helm of a sinking ship left by the previous captain. From what I have read, and not from this message board, the White Sox farm system has improved under Hanh. Prior to Hanh, the White Sox farm system was ranked bear the bottom. If I remember correctly, it was second to last. It is a shame that this ranking did not bother Williams. How can you expect a baseball team to succeed in the future if it has a poor farm system; in his opinion, it is okay as long as he can get some big name for a high price and Lord knows what else. Under Hanh, the farm system is now somewhere near the middle, even though it is not in the top of the middle. This is a huge improvement in my opinion considering what Williams did with the farm system.
Am I a disappoint Sox fan? Without a question of a doubt. Since 2005, I have seen the Sox going from a World Series team to team competing for first to a team competing for a top ten daft pick. Us Sox fans are vocal and we do not expect a “next year” because we want blood this year. The Sox have to work with what it has and wrinkle out its current inconsistencies, even if it means firing Ventura or not.. In the end, and in my opinion, the Sox need to improve its farm system and I do believe the next years it is going to be a frustrating one.
Strauss
Hahn has nothing to do with the minor leagues. That’s on Williams. Hahn is Williams puppet and so is the entire organization. They were fortunate in 2005. And since then it’s been horrible. With Reinsdorf gone now, at least he’s invisible, sox fans are stuck with Williams and his decisions. How’s that been working sox fans.
lilojbone
The GM is responsible for the farm system and it has been going well with Williams’ decisions.
ASapsFables
The 2008 season was hardly a “horrible” one for the White Sox. In some respects it was arguably as exciting as the 2005 World championship year, especially with the drama it provided at the end of the regular season just to reach the playoffs.
The 2012 team was also very competitive, leading the A.L. Central for the majority of the season before finishing poorly in September. That also happened to be Robin Ventura’s first season as manager. Perhaps a more experienced hire might have made the difference between the club reaching the postseason that year.
chieftoto
Call Mr. Coppalela.
Gogerty
Haha, massive package of Julio, Freddie, and Vizzy?
chieftoto
Or better yet, call Mr. Dobolina, Mr. Bob Dobolina…
sfu13
Nope. Time to raise the white flag. Call the Cubs and offer Chris Sale, Carson Fulmer, and Jordan Guerrero for Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber, Willson Contreras, Eloy Jimenez, one of Dylan Cease or Pierce Johnson, CJ Edwards, and two low level lotto tickets.
Cubs become big time favorite to win WS with a rotation to envy. White Sox rebuild their team with their new SS, C, DH, and some young talent. Play Addison at SS, move Tim Anderson to CF. Sox look halfway decent for the future despite trading their ace.
Kayrall
Seems a bit of an overpay and also an over-complication with Fulmer. I’m not saying it’s ridiculous or something like that. In a similar structure, what would you say would be the return for JUST Sale?
Cubs_Fan31
If you won’t say it is ridiculous then I will. Why would the Cubs give up 6 high quality guys all under team control for Sale? Some people (Sox fans) on here seem to think Fulmer is a Strasburg type talent. If he is that good then bring him up now and win your division. I’ll give you Schwarber, CJ Edwards and a high A prospect for Sale. This Russell, Jimenez, Contreras talk has got to go. RIDICULOUS 🙂
Priggs89
Lol that’s even more ridiculous than the above poster. That’s not even in the ballpark for Sale. That wouldn’t even get you Quintana.
Kayrall
It’s not ridiculous if you’re including Fulmer, which I said complicated things. Schwarber is a good start for a Sale trade (although as a Cubs fan I would rather have him), but unless you name a specific guy such a Clifton or Cease or Underwood, that deal probably isn’t close to the value that Sale can (will) net the Sox.
One Fan
Sfu13 that is the most absurd trade offer I have seen in awhile and on these sites I have seen some dumb ones but you must be the dumbest of them all
thebare
Why don’t the WSox trade for Szuar who batting 320 and riding the bench in The Cub system cause he’s a Henry guy .The Cubs need a LHRP so Putnam for Szuir and Richards for a dump trade plus Sox throw cash in to make trade look ok Szuir would be better than Jackson was and might be another Eaton type they need
lilojbone
I say the Sox should trade Sale for a better mayor, Driving lessons for Chicagoans and some commonsense as well.
timyanks
what is Addings first name?
joe6pack
Unfortunately, they are in a position of having to keep adding marginal pieces in order to try to keep winning now. They absolutely cannot take the same road as the Cubs.. Not because they shouldnt ( I agree with how the Cubs have rebuilt), but because the below average attendance would drop dramatically if they went into total rebuild.
The Cubs were able to “afford” a complete rebuild because of the strong fan support. During the Cubs current rebuild, their attendance still remained strong throughout because of many factors. The White Sox would become even more of an afterthought in Chicago after a fire sale..
While this is difficult to accept as a White Sox fan, I do understand the “retool but don’t completely rebuild” philosophy of Reinsdorf/Williams.. It continues to be a necessary evil in the same town to compete with the Cubs. Also, why not try to win when your division is unusually weak. Get to the playoffs and anything can happen.
Like all nostalgia, we always remember the good things , but a total rebuild does not guarantee winning in the future. How did it take the Royals and Pirates to even compete after many rebuilds? They were irrelevant for 30 years until recently. Even the “moneyball” A’s and the great Billy Beane have had many inconsistent seasons.
Ask any other fan in any other city whose team is not the Cubs, and they will have the same (owner, manager, player) complaints. The White Sox are far from the worst team in baseball,
lilojbone
This is a great website to come when I am bored at work
72benz9
In my mind, this whole situation reeks of $#!t rolling downhill. Starting at the top w/ Williams and the absolute dis-interest in having a competitive environment. Instead of stockpiling, as most teams would – the Sox get marginal talent, that would be a nice asset to have but not count on – and act like you can plug and play with these guys. Lawrie, Rollins, Garcia, Avila, Austin Jackson…I like Lawrie and Jackson but neither of them are starters almost anywhere else. Lawrie hasn’t come out of a game all season and he’ s hitting .230 with 80+ K’s. When do you hold people accountable?
This is a train wreck right now….
i.e. Avisail Garcia starting in RF and JB Shuck / Coats DH’ing. Unless Shuck is hurt, how is this possible? You could keep Eaton in RF w/Shuck – I know Eaton wants to play CF, but he’s an All-Star in RF. Be a manager and make the call. Even if Sox brass wants Garcia playing the field to “increase’ his trade value’, letting him waddle around RF won’t do it. I wish Avisial the best, but his body language really makes me question him as a ballplayer. So many tools….why don’t White Sox young position players develop? Why haven’t the Sox been able to hit as a team in 4 years? Go look at overall team batting stats over the last 3-4 years. It’s rancid.
I very much acknowledge that it is real easy to sit here and type about someone else losing their job – but when its just so painfully obvious that there needs to be a change internally…its hard not to point fingers. Every time I see a Sox hitter take first pitch fastball down the middle then whiff at a curve in the dirt on the next pitch OR Alex Avila power walk base to base OR {insert relief pitcher name here} walk the first batter after the offense miraculously get a few runs and then blow the lead (happens literally every game), I get all riled up and question the player…then realize they aren’t held accountable by the coaches.
I don’t anticipate Kenny Williams resigning – there are quality pieces on this team that have squandered in mediocrity for 3-4 years – time to face the music, unfortunately. Don Cooper, Todd Steverson, and Robin…its time you guys. Too many good players playing REALLY bad baseball for too long on the Southside. Time to mix it up.
bearsfan49055
They should trade as many as they can. Tear the whole thing apart
staypuft
Sure. Yolo.
CubsFanFrank
Nothing wrong with a .500 team in a mediocre at best viewing themselves as a contender. The problem comes when teams in such a situation give up too much for too little.
CubsFanFrank
That should read mediocre at best division.