The Red Sox have reached out to the Braves to inquire about ace Julio Teheran and closer Arodys Vizcaino, reports Jim Bowden of ESPN and MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM (Twitter link). However, it would appear that the talks are somewhat preliminary in nature, as he adds that there’s no traction between the two sides at this time. In an audio clip from MLB Network Radio, Bowden adds that the problem for the Sox is that Atlanta is interested in the likes of Yoan Moncada and Andrew Benintendi (understandably so — most clubs would ask for those names when potentially dealing their top players), and the Sox are loath to surrender either.
The two sides do, as Bowden points out, make a fairly logical match in terms of a trade. MLBTR’s Connor Byrne noted as much several weeks ago when examining Teheran’s market and trying to find the most reasonable trade partners. Boston has a high volume of top-tier prospects, many of whom are effectively blocked at the Major League level. That’s not the case for Benintendi (left field for the Sox has been a season-long problem), which one would imagine makes it even more difficult for the Red Sox to part with him. But, the Braves are said to want MLB-ready talent in any trade that would send Teheran away, and that’s presumably an even greater point of emphasis in a package that would see Atlanta part with both Teheran and Vizcaino. Benitendi has already spent five weeks at the Double-A level and has recently begun hitting quite well there after some early struggles. It’s not inconceivable that he could be ready to contribute in 2016, and 2017 certainly seems like a realistic expectation.
Both Teheran and Vizcaino make sense as long-term options for the Sox. Teheran is guaranteed about $28MM through the 2019 season, and his contract contains a $12MM club option for the 2020 campaign, at which point he’ll still be just 29 years of age. Vizcaino, meanwhile, is controllable through 2019 by way of arbitration. Both players solve not only 2016 needs for the Sox but represent long-term upgrades. With Koji Uehara and Junichi Tazawa both slated to depart after 2016, the long-term appeal of Vizcaino, in particular, is easy to see.
From a bigger-picture perspective, the Red Sox’ search for pitching likely won’t be limited to just Atlanta. Boston has received stunningly excellent results from knuckleballer Steven Wright this season, and David Price has improved after a slow start while Rick Porcello has been a solid mid-rotation piece. Beyond that trio, however, the likes of Eduardo Rodriguez, Joe Kelly, Clay Buchholz and Henry Owens have been decidedly ineffective, resulting in a team that ranks 18th in the Majors with a collective 4.53 ERA from its starting pitchers. The bullpen has been better, pitching to a combined 3.56 ERA, but Uehara has struggled this season and Matt Barnes is averaging nearly five walks per nine innings despite a solid 3.21 ERA. Additionally, the team lost one of its top projected bullpen arms when offseason acquisition Carson Smith underwent Tommy John surgery earlier this year. Given the lack of traction in talks referenced by the initial report, the Sox may ultimately deem Atlanta’s asking price too steep and venture elsewhere to address their pitching needs, but this figures to be the first of many times that the Sox are connected to this pair of arms as the Aug. 1 non-waiver deadline approaches.
Regarding the Braves, there’s a fairly split camp on whether Teheran should be shopped at all. The entire MLBTR staff recently weighed in on the matter, and no consensus was reached. Similarly, a poll of MLBTR readers within that same roundtable showed that about two thirds of our reader base felt it worthwhile to shop Teheran, whereas the other third felt him valuable of a building block to surrender.
mookiessnarl
ML ready players is an interesting way of saying we want the best you have. Benintendi and Moncada have about a month of AA between them. They’ll likely be options a year and a half from now, but they’re not exactly languishing in AAA waiting for an opportunity.
stl_cards16 2
Moncada could use some more time. Benintendi is a polished hitter. He’s going to fly through the minors, reminiscent of Kyle Schwarber. The bat is legit and there’s an Opening in the OF. Not all players need a year + in the high minors.
mookiessnarl
He had a very rough time adjusting to AA. He may not be as close as you think. I know they wanted him to fly through the minors, but if his adjustment to AAA is anything like AA, it’s gonna take longer than you think.
jp08
Yep, I saw Benentendi is Richmond a week ago and he was so so, he has the ability, so it will take time.
stl_cards16 2
A couple weeks of not hitting is not evidence of a “rough time”. He can hit at any level and the biggest test for a player is AA. Plenty of players get called straight from AA. He has not done anything to slow his timeline. If all you care about are results, then maybe he looked ” so-so” as the other poster suggested. But teams look at more than results.
jp08
Flew out in a clutch situation and struck out in another. He needs more time before you can claim “all you care about is results” which is the bottom line, production.
mookiessnarl
Results are pretty much the only thing that matters.
jp08
Agreed
seamaholic 2
Umm … sub-300 OBP in AA constitutes “flying through the minors”? Quite a few “polished hitters” hit a wall at AA and never get their buzz back. Schwarber was an exception, not the rule (and Schwarber might not be as good as he looked at times last year, but that’s another thread.)
rocky7
Gosh Seamaholic don’t say anything about Schwarber as there may be Cub fans reading this thread and they will call for you to be boiled in oil for saying Schwarber is anything less than he will be the best hitter in the either league for the rest of his career and that he will be able to play adequate defense regardless of where Theo the Great asks Madden to play him.
The fact that he has less than a season of total ML experience just isn’t a factor when weighing the average Cub fans evidence.
seamaholic 2
Heh. I give Cubs fans a lot of rope, cuz they’re having their dream season and they’ve waited a long, long, LONG time. They can brag a little.
But yeah, Schwarber’s got to find a position and clear up that lefty on lefty problem before he becomes a superstar.
kster224488k
Return asked for and set in stone by coppy is that Atlanta wants mlb ready middle of order bat..unless the Sox want to come off with a couple position players on their roster there will not be a deal..and if you don’t think Teheran is an ace you haven’t watched him lately have you?…personally I wouldn’t give him or viz for the best overrated prospects the Sox have
User 4245925809
Think Boston would be better (and cheaper) off trying to sign Taz to a 3y deal at 15-20m than giving up one of the big 3 kids for vizcaino. Taz has been a solid reliever since coming thru the Sox MiLB system from Japan and having TJ early on. Velocity hasn’t dipped much since right after coming back.
Give Rodriquez another 2-3 starts and see if he starts throwing the slider again after going back to the old windup yesterday with FB back up to 94-5 and topping at 96mph. Maybe wasn’t totally comfortable throwing the slider yesterday? Think he only threw 3-4 all game before thinking of another starter.
chieftoto
Ur an idiot… Vizcainos contract is longer and cheaper than that by a lot. He also is 10x better.
jp08
10x better??? If your going to call someone and idiot at least present evidence to prove you may have a valid opinion.
SaladFingers69
Except Tazawa will only cost money (which the Red Sox have plenty of) rather than using valuable resources in the form of upper-echelon minor league talent.
David 29
I dont think 10x, but a lot better.
It’s the difference between a sub2.00 ERA- 2.00 ERA and a 4.00 ERA reliever
theo2016
Ur an idiot vizcaino has a 1 yr contract. Sure he is controllable for years after this but his contract is only for 1 yr.
Kevin 23
First of all there is ZERO chance that they would trade a Top 3 prospect for Vizcaino alone, They would only part with one of them for a Teheran and Vizcaino package. Secondly, Vizcaino is better and signed to a better than the 3/20mil deal you want for Taz. Finally, how does resigning Taz next year help the Red Sox this year?
User 4245925809
They don’t need Vizcaino this year for starters and I already answered why LT it’s not worth giving up a top prospect for a reliever..
Boston has a decent BP already, even with Carson Smith lost for the rest of the year. Just resign Taz at 5-7m over 3y to cover the 7th and they have seemingly started todevelop both Barnes and Hembree into 7th inning setup guys if they had a reliable long guy, so really.. Why do Atlanta fans come on here and drool constantly over Boston prospects and make preposterous posts, then the normal trolls tag on with their nodding donkey selves posting in agreement??
All anyone with a brain has to do is look at the top 6 Red Sox relievers. and see that they DO NOT need another and cease this mess. Braves fans are becoming among the worse with this wishing for every team’s best prospects, worse than philly fan’s last 2 years.
bravesfan1234
And Red Sox fans are becoming horrible thinking they can acquire quality pitching without giving anything of real value up. They basically want to have their cake and eat it too. It’s a sellers market.
jp08
I see what you say about Boston’s bullpen but why not add another guy and make it even better. Prospects are hype till they make it so trade 1 or 2 for another player to help the big boys and develop more prospects.
bravobravo
Johnsilver you say Braves fans come on here and drool constantly over Boston prospects and make preposterous posts. A Braves fan didn’t come on this thread and say anything about a Boston prospect. Nobody said anything about giving up a top prospect for just Vizzy. All someone said was that Vizzy was better than Taz. Which is a fact! Nothing wrong with that. Doesn’t give you the go ahead to make up stuff or exaggerate and talk bad about another teams fan base. Nobody is wishing for anyones best prospects. Everyone knows that you have to give up quality to get quality. It’s simple. The Red Sox are not about to get quality pitching from anyone for a bunch of scrubs or without giving up assets of real value. You can keep telling yourself and all the people that will listen to you that.
sebguy
Then there is a zero chance you guys will get Teheran. I respect the BoSox nation,but y’all fooling yourself if you think trading for a young cheap front of the rotation starter isn’t going to cost more than one Top 3 prospect.
The Braves do not have to trade him. Why would they accept anything less than what they want? Same thing with Fernandez.A s aBraves fan I don’t see anyone besides MonMoncada and Benintendi that we would want or need.
Gogerty
Nice piece Steve. I think from both teams’ perspectives, it would have to be a creative deal. Obviously they both match up but neither wants to give too much. I think in all comment sections the “packaging” for sake of trades can be overblown, but both Julio and Viz hit the mark short and long term for a number of teams. Moncada is obviously near major league ready and can give Braves the option to send Albies in the trade and Benintendi would be a clear option and make a great future OF teamed with Mallex and Ender.
This site will be busy the next few weeks for sure. Love your guys’ work, keep it up.
RunDMC
Now if a package can include Benintendi and/or Moncada — then put those guys in a box, wrap a bow on it and send to Dave and Frank.
Kevin 23
There is ZERO chance that will ever happen!
onlyringsmatter
Red Sox have nothing to offer for Teheran.Trading Moncada is a non starter for someone like him and Benintendi is too good for him too.If you are trading these two guys you do if for someone of Sale’s caliber.
Nobody from the active roster can be traded at this point I think and Mookie and Xander are non starters given that they have a lot more value both to this Red Sox team and than Teheran himself
southi
Personally I don’t see a deal happening between the two teams for BOTH Vizcaino and Teheran. I’d seriously expect that the Braves would ask for Moncada, Benintendi, and Raudes. I know there is tons of debate about what each of the players are worth (and the future value of the minor leaguers) but I think it will take a lot to back the braves off their asking price of ‘comparable major league talent in age and worth to Teheran’ as Coppy supposedly set for him. Combining Teheran with Viz just drives up the price even more.
The bottom line is whether or not the Red Sox are desperate enough to want to upgrade and are sold on the pitchers the braves have available. Perceived current value versus perceived future value will determine everything.
onlyringsmatter
They can ask that it’s just won’t happen.Teheran is not elite and plus he is an NL pitcher.Deal won’t be made here I am afraid
southi
Which is why I said I don’t see a deal happening between the two teams for BOTH Vizcaino and Teheran together. I think the price of such an acquisition would be more than the Red Sox would be willing to part with.
NL_East_Rivalry
Tehran isn’t elite, but his cost control is. No one is saying Tehran is an ace, but he is a reliably good pitcher that pitches a lot of innings with no injury history and only a half season of a drop in mojo. Mix that with his contract and he is worth a lot.
A'sfaninUK
Then what is Sonny Gray worth? Devers, Benintendi & Moncada? Because that’s what you are implying.
I wonder what Boston would give up for Gray, Doolittle, Reddick & Hill. Adding those four would do wonders for their title chances this year and beyond, but would they give up for that package? Sky is the limit for sure, I think the 3 listed above plus Espinoza and basically whoever out of the farm.
chesteraarthur
Re no one saying he is an ace-
“The Red Sox have reached out to the Braves to inquire about ace Julio Teheran ”
It’s funny how over rated he has become
RunDMC
It’s funny how unappreciated this guy has gotten from the national media. Now, I understand all of the metrics pointing to a decline, and his velocity not being as high as it was when he first entered the league (then again, whose doesn’t decline after 6 years?), yet this guy keeps getting better. Everyone seems like they’re waiting on a start where the buck stops, or that we should trade him (and the 3+ years of control in his prime) for no higher than the Red Sox 5th best prospect.
David 29
it’s funny how much of a homer you are, lol. And a fan that doesn’t know what he types- literally can’t back anything you claim.
Kevin 23
His peripheral stats keep getting worse and worse, He has a FIP close to 4 this year.
bravesfan1234
Sonny Gray? You talking about the same Sonny Gray that currently has an ERA of 5.20 and whom the league is batting .279 against? I don’t even think he’s available.
bravobravo
Here you go again! He is the Braves ace. Not an ace in the league. Dude don’t act like you didn’t know that.
seamaholic 2
Red Sox have other players in the minors besides Moncada and Benintendi. Neither is even their #1 prospect for many analysts. That would be Devers. Anderson Espinoza and Michael Kopech are Top 100 pitching prospects, and there’s much more.
Also, Teheran and Vizcaino ARE very much worth Moncada and more, to say nothing of Benintendi, who is nowhere near the same value.
mookiessnarl
Not sure who these analysts are you’re talking about but it’s pretty much universally acknowledged that Moncada and Benintendi are one and two. The order may be up in the air but that’s pretty much it. Kopech’s a nice piece but with the PED suspension and breaking his hand fighting with his roommate there are some serious maturity issues. And Espinoza may hit the trip digit but he’s still in A ball and is only 18.
thediesel4
For a guy who’s account says onlyringsmatter,
you sure aren’t willing to give up pieces to do that. I don’t think it would kill the Red Sox to trade one of JBJ or Betts. Hell Braves might do that straight up.
natesp4
So the Red Sox should trade one of the two starting outfielders they have, thus causing two gaping holes in the outfield in order to pick up a middle of the rotation starter? And this makes them better suited to get a ring this year?
Niekro
I hope the Braves dont get oversold on Devers while he is a nice prospect he should not be the centerpiece for Teheran, he has not tapped into his best tool his power consistently, as he has progressed his slugging has steadily declined.
David 29
for me.. it’s Benintendi or Moncada or dont trade him at this point..
southi
Devers appears to need much more time to develop than either Moncada or Benintendi.
natesp4
This may be what you’re getting at, but Devers is 19 years old. He’s two years younger than both Benintendi and Moncada while having started the year at the same level. He’s supposed to need more time
southi
I don’t disagree that he is supposed to need more time since he is so young for his level. You missed the point entirely. The braves have claimed repeatedly that they want major league caliber (in terms of production, age, and controllability to) offense for Teheran. No matter how you cut it Devers will likely not be in the majors this season or even next at the earliest. He doesn’t fit what Coppy claims he wants.
natesp4
I didn’t really miss the point, I was just adding that bit to the conversation. Niekro was pointing out a few flaws Devers has that seem to get magnified when you compare the performance to what Moncada and Benintendi have done. He can still easily be a centerpiece to a larger deal, but as you point out he doesn’t fit with what the Braves are looking for.
joedirte4life
Sometimes highly rated prospects fizzle out like Jurickson Program or Andy matte. The red Sox imo can be the favorites to win the world series of the got Teheran and Vizcaino. With this being Big Papi’s last season I’m sure they want to send him out with another ring. So if I’m the red Sox I go for the WS and make the trade with the Braves. Besides it’s not like the red sox can’t spend money in the future or don’t have other minor league players to stand up.
jp08
Yep, I would trade A-ball players any day for developed major leaguers.
SaladFingers69
Yeah, Jurickson Profar is just awful. Totally fizzled out. *rolls eyes*
Niekro
If it ends up being a choice of Quality vs Quantity, the Quality has to be one of Moncada or Benintendi not Devers, if the Quality choice is Devers I’d much rather have quantity of lesser prospects from that system.
natesp4
The sox system is good, but it’s really top heavy. Devers probably has the highest chance to bust out of the “quality” prospects you list, but the majority of the “quantity” prospects have ceilings of utility player, middle reliever, etc. The Braves would be a lot better off taking Devers in my opinion
jazznbluz
Not a Sox fan here, but what would they, or any other team, expect? Teheran and Vizcaino are 2 of the 3 best players on Braves (Freeman being the other). They will also be the two hottest names on the trade market this year. They are both young, low salaries, and have at least 2-3 years of control. I believe if the Sox “only” had to give up Moncado and Benintendi they would be getting off cheaply.
As an O’s fan, I would love my team to get at least one of the two, but the O’s don’t have anyone in their farm system that would be of enough interest to the Braves. If the Braves do decide to trade one, or both, you can bet they will be asking for at least 1 top 5-10 prospect for each one, as well as other prospects or, like they did with the O’s and the D-backs, an expiring contract + one of the tradeable draft picks or a PTBNL, probably being the team’s 1st or 2nd rd pick from 2016.
chieftoto
Well said.
mookiessnarl
I’m sorry but two of the best three players on the Braves isn’t saying a whole lot. Now two of the best three players on the Cubs? That’s saying something.
David 29
Teheran would be you’re 2/3 best pitcher looking at the whole season. ANd Vizcaino would arguably be your best reliever.
and TBH, all three (Freeman, Vizcaino, and Teheran) are on pace for like 3 WAR and Vizcaino for 1.5+ which is good for a reliever..
mookiessnarl
I’d take both Price and Wright over Teheran and easily Kimbrel over Vizcaino. Now overall i’d take Betts, Bogaerts, bradley, price, wright, Kimbrel, and Papi over both of them. So just because they’re two of the top three on the Braves doesn’t mean they’d rate that high for anyone else. Braves should hold out for the best deal possible don’t get me wrong, but where they rate on a very bad team shouldn’t really enter into it.
onlyringsmatter
To be honest DD shouldn’t do anything to improve this team this season it won’t be worth it.The cost in prospects for non elite players in demand will be high plus this team is not a playoff team in my eyes at all
Niekro
Words of wisdom but at the same time you can not just expect the offense to be like this every year this is a once in a decade offense.
onlyringsmatter
Offense is falling behind lately and pitching is only a problem in a few spots really.2 bullpen arms and a solid number 3-4 starter and Red Sox will be good to go to fight for a playoff spot
start_wearing_purple
This year the production from the offense is on overdrive. What’s lacking is the pitching. It might be worth the gamble to trade one of our top 2 prospects to try to go far into the playoffs.
David 29
tbh, I think the biggest factor for trading for SP (doesn’t ahve to be Teheran) to improve the team is to win the WS in 2016. Why 2016? Papi.
Bob Smiley
lots of teams need RP/SP. top prospects will be in demand for sure. Just depends who wants to part with them. Hill/Pom/Teheran/gray. The Redsox have so much depth and money to build a team for years to come. I’d keep Moncada and deal any other prospect in the farm to get an arm to win now.
jp08
Yep, I would trade A-ball players any day for developed major leaguers.
Zack35
I would not trade Moncada in a trade for Teheran or Vizcaino. I think Moncada has the potential to be a super star. I understand you have to trade top prospects to get top young players, I think it makes more sense for the Red Sox to look at maybe moving one of Benintendi and Devers in a possible package
chieftoto
I agree. And I don’t think ATL wants him. Swanson, Albies are their UTM of the future. They’ll probably ask for a package of Benintendi, Espinoza, Roudes and Basabe for both Teheran and Vizcaino.
jose carlos
This would not comply with the Braves’ GM desire/need of major league ready players for Teheran and Vizcaino when you include in that deal Espinoza, Roudes and Basabe whom are all low A players in their teens.
Mike M 2
surprised no one has mentioned Espinoza. Is he untouchable?
FWIW I don’t consider any prospect as untouchable except maybe Harper or Strasburg were a few years back
After these last few games with the bullpen imploding I am actually more interested in Vizcaino than Teheran.
onlyringsmatter
Espinoza will be a very good pitcher in my book and I would trade him in a package
southi
Espinoza is a very good prospect. He is doing fairly well as an 18 year old in A ball. The thing is while he may be part of a package, he certainly wouldn’t be the headliner IF the Braves are holding out for what Coppy had expressed his desire for.
Zcash10
Usually don’t propose trades. Make fun if you wish idc. I just highly doubt the Sox get rid of their top prospects for Teheran and Viz.
Brian Johnson, Sam Travis, Marco Hernandez, Austin Rei, and Allen Craig
For
Teheran, vizcaino, Jason hursh.
start_wearing_purple
The Braves laugh and hang up the phone.
stl_cards16 2
You should stick to that not proposing trades thing.
Niekro
Allen Craig you are too generous
southi
Zcash10, while all the players you listed do have some worth and value (besides Craig who definitely has negative value) it isn’t approaching what it would take to acquire Teheran AND Vizcaino. The Braves are under no pressure to deal either player and they are contractually very affordable for several years each. The Braves would just as well hold on to them for now instead of selling them for anything but a premium price to a team that is trying to ‘win it all’.
chieftoto
Lol… Wouldn’t be enough for Viz.
mookiessnarl
Travis is injured and Johnson is on the DL with severe anxiety issues. Probably not the centerpiece for trades.
David 29
even the RS fan agrees!
ThatGuy 2
Okay, so that’s for Viz and Hursh. What are you going to give up for Teheran?
crosstownkid 3
Just have to go back to the sox trade for Kimbrel… Kimbrel is better then viz..
They gave up Margot, guerra, asuaje and Logan… With Margot being the only top 10 prospect in Boston system, so to think viz would command one of moncada or beni is ludacris…
bravobravo
Nobody said that just Vizzy would command that
bbritton209
For those who are saying they should go after Chris Sale, stop for a moment and really look at the situation. Chicago went out this past offseason and traded for Todd Frazier. They wanted to make a run at the post season. They are currently 1 game below .500 and only 3.5 games out of the wildcard. They won’t be selling at the deadline. They will be buying to try and make a run similar to what the Mets did last year. So Chris Sale is not on the trade market. For him to be traded CWS would have to admit this year is a loss and give up on it. That’s just not happening.
Voice of Reason
The white sox should sell. They obviously don’t have a manager capable of getting them to the playoffs.
They could get a haul for sale. Then move Frazier and their closer and anyone else they can spin for prospects. The white sox don’t have a minor league system at all. The cupboard is bare. They’ve been limping along for years and trying to catch lightning in a bottle with several veterans because they don’t have minor league talent and it’s just not working.
Time to reload for the white sox.
bbritton209
I agree. I think CWS are the next club primed for a ground up rebuild, but from my limited knowledge of their system and their front office, they seem too bullheaded to admit it’s time to rebuild. They seem like the type to need a full on crash before they admit anything. This why I say Sale isn’t on the trade market.
HalosFan
The WS are too stupid to realize what needs to be done. Their front office might be the worst in the 4 sports. I don’t think Hahn has been allowed to do his job. I think it’s Reinsdorf and KW still calling the shots. It’s not a coincidence the Bulls and WS are both in baseball/basketball hell.
TwinsVet
Braves commenters are notorious for expecting a King’s Ransom in any deal. Boston’s are notorious for believing their farm has 50 future HOF’ers.
The comments about prospective Boston-Atlanta deals should be entertaining.
start_wearing_purple
Sigh. Virtually every fan of every team is reluctant to give up their lottery ticket prospects because any of them could be potentially great. On top of that virtually every fan of every team wants a bigger return for a young star,
Let’s not pretend these are unique phenomenons found in only 2 teams.
Gogerty
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Cd360
Yes to some degree everyone is like that but Atlanta and Boston and notoriously worse. For proof of the Red Sox, look at how they thought of Manuel Margot before and after the Kimbril trade. For proof of the Braves, go back and look at some other articles about Julio. You’ll see that they’ expect a Miller level return for him.
Kevin 23
Yeah the Red Sox fans way overrated Bogaerts, Bradley Jr,, Betts, Swihart, Shaw, etc.
bravobravo
Come on man. Red Sox fans we’re calling for JBJ to be demoted when he first came up and couldn’t hit a lick. Not one RS fan that I seen imagined that he would have improved this much this year. Last year they were wanting to trade him. Swihart hasn’t done anything of note. Bad examples. The other ones were good. Not those 2
A'sfaninUK
It’s hilarious that fans think that, but GM’s think “Hey my teams over .500 in July, I should try and win a title this year.” and trade anyone they want.
Voice of Reason
Everybody thinks their pig is prettiest.
lucienbel
As a Red Sox fan I have to agree that the fans have a habit of over rating prospects. If other teams do it as much, Red Sox fans certainly seem to be more vocal about it.
None the less, Moncada certainly seems to have the tools to turn into a pretty good big leaguer…only time will tell, but he certainly seems to be worth the hype for the moment.
David 29
sorry for the korean to others..
but to TwinsVet, 너 박병호 팬?
TwinsVet
My Hangul is scant. “Korean Stickballers” was my fantasy baseball team (hence logo) started up back when I was serving a tour over there. Not Korean myself.
ThatGuy 2
Twins fans are notorious for making sweeping generalizations
bravesfan
I think two for two swap isn’t that bad. I think Teheran is worth those two prospect simply because the Sox have enough talent in the majors and minors for hitting, but really don’t have much pitching. I don’t want to give up viz. But if it means getting high profile future hitters, I’m ok with it. We eventually need hitters… these two make sense. Plus, in the long run, you never know how a prospect is gonna turn out. You do know how Teheran and Vizcaino are gonna perform.
NL_East_Rivalry
Eh… Tehran yes. Viz will be good if healthy, but he hasn’t been in the minors
onlyringsmatter
Teheran is certanly not worth Moncada and Benintendi if that’s what you mean.That’s an elite package that can get you 80% of the pitchers on the market
Jon429
Then why don’t they forget Teheran and go try to get Sonny Grey or Jose Fernandez? Oh that’s right, they already inquired and the asking price was Bogaerts or Betts.. So sick of people focusing solely on sabermetric value and ignoring the supply and demand market right now. Trades that happen for decent starting pitching are going to be OVERPAYS if they are going to happen at all. None of these teams HAVE to trade their pitchers.
The Braves would in fact be better suited to wait until the winter meetings to move Teheran. There will be more teams looking for SPs then and getting a major league bat for him wouldn’t be out of the question.
gatag12
While I want an overpay, Giving up Teheran for Moncada and Bientiendi would be insane from the Red Sox perspective. At that point, the braves might have to look at including Viz, and possibly one of Swanson/Albies.
R.D.
I would be puzzled if any team trying to compete this year would rather trade for Fernandez or Gray. Teheran, as an investment, has considerably more value.
baseball10
It brings up another question that Braves will have to consider. Should they look to trade each in separate deals? I thought the prevailing thought was that combining two trade chips ended up resulting in lesser value?
Niekro
I don’t see any thing against trading them together if the price is meant from one club or two clubs doesn’t make a difference really, Hamels and Diekman went together.
Niekro
The Braves would be kidding themselves if they think they could get a big package for Viz in a stand alone deal like Giles/Kimbrel brought.
baseball10
Not saying it hasn’t happened before but Diekman had ERA over 5 at the time so while Hamels had more value than Teheran, Viz would have significantly more than Diekman did at the time.
baseball10
I’m not against both of them moving in same deal just wondered if it was the smartest player. Indians and Cubs also have the fire power to pull a deal off for both but their need isn’t as great as Sox
gatag12
As a braves fan, it’s not that we think our pig is prettier. It’s just that we don’t need to trade either player (or at least Teheran doesn’t need to be traded; doesn’t make sense to have a good closer on a terrible team so Viz should probably go).
For me, I want Moncada or Bientiendi to start. When considering positive value for Teheran above his contract price, he MIGHT be worth Moncada straight up. But again, the braves are not in a position of desperation here. If the Red Sox don’t meet demands, it’s understandable from both sides of the table. But the braves should move on to try and find someone to overpay.
A'sfaninUK
Lifetime NL pitchers going to the AL East sounds like a fantastic idea!!!
adyo4552
Worked for Pedro. Worked for Schilling.
jakem59
Teheran isn’t even close to being the pitchers Pedro or Schilling were. Plus, Schilling came up through the minors in the AL and spent the first 3-4 years as an Oriole.
baseball10
Its not a talent issue. Can’t help if they play in the most hitting friendly stadiums
satan
Vizcaino for Moncada,
Ken M.
When has a top 5 prospect in baseball ever been traded for a reliever?
ThatGuy 2
No
Kayrall
“Bryant and Schwarber for Chapman and Miller”
hanks1hammer
Has to be a troll
hanks1hammer
There is so many Atlanta/Boston fans conflicting with each other. Really, if you think about it, either teams long term outlook is in good shape. If neither team makes a move, they will be fine.
Both teams have needs that can be solved now though. Boston’s pitching assets coming out of the farm and at the major league level is something Boston will eventually have to address. They can cross their fingers and hold their breath on Espinosa. He’s only 6’0 so his frame doesn’t project to put a lot of weight on as major league pitchers go and his mid to high 90’s fast ball is going to put a lot of strain on that small frame.
Kopech is the only other pitcher the Red Sox have a chance to turn into a top of the rotation starter. He has a savage fastball and no control & command. Maybe it will develop and maybe it won’t.
Those two are the extent of real pitching talent in the Boston farm. Pitching is absolutely a volatile asset. You need more than two pitching prospects to hope on.
I’ve read a lot of Boston fans not wanting to give up one of their Big 3, Mon,Dev,Ben but a pitcher as productive as Teheran is not going to be cheap and Boston needs to hold onto its pitching prospects at 4 and 5. To get Teheran, more pitching prospects wouldn’t work so it’s a moot point anyway.
So Teheran might cost you two of your Big 3 but just try going after Sale. He’ll cost you all 3 plus some more. Pound for pound, nothing costs more than front line pitching.
You never know what will shake loose, but the only other real solution I see for Boston is waiting for the end of the 2017 season because there simply isn’t pitching talent that is as capable as Teheran hitting the FA market after the 2016 season.
Considering the lack of pitching on the market for the next couple years, the Braves can wait for the offer they want. They’re under no pressure.
steelerbravenation
Yes Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson
steelerbravenation
Adrian Gonzalez for Urbina
steelerbravenation
Also Paul Konerko from the Dodgers to the Reds for Jeff Shaw. He was the number 2 prospect in all MLB.
adyo4552
Lets look at it logically. The Sox are pretty solid with Price, Porcello, Wright and ERod (despite his struggles, they are committed). They need a fifth, and it wont be Buch for long. Teheran fits. The consequence is they no longer have room for an Owens, a Johnson, perhaps an Espinoza. So trading 2 of the three for Teheran is a no brainer. Then you throw in another blocked player. Sam Travis? Add some money, a PTBNL, and you got Teheran.
Vizcaino is a luxury. Sox pen is pretty solid with Hembree stepping up behind Taz, Ueh and CK, not worried there much at all. Focus on Tehran.
jakem59
Espinoza is probably 3-4 years away at minimum, he’s not exactly blocked anywhere nor is Sam Travis, with 1B opening up after Hanley becomes a fulltime DH. Plus Travis is only 22 and hasn’t even had a full season at AAA, no need to get rid of him for the sake of him “being blocked”.
adyo4552
You can sign a DH on the market with ease, and Hanley has shown he can handle 1B. Travis is not necessary for the team. But a quality SP is. Plus, Devers may be the 1B of the future anyway.
jakem59
Hanley isn’t exactly shinning at first base, he’s below average and he’s deteriorating a little more every game, he physically just can’t play the field anymore.
Devers is years away and looks incredibly lost in the field, if he’s the future of anything it’s DH.
The Sox are incredibly thin on corner infield prospects and the players manning the positions in Boston aren’t exactly irreplaceable assets.. You don’t drain one well to half-fill another.
jose carlos
Your proposal obviously makes sense and it is logical.
Nevertheless, considering that this may be the last year of Uehara and Tazawa with the Red Sox I would consider now the possibility of acquiring also Vizcaino in this deal. I would also include in this deal a left hand batter such as Markakis to platoon the next two years with Chris Young the left field.
To summarize the deal:
1.) Andrew Benintendi as the center piece of the deal where he would end up as the 3rd best prospect of the Braves ahead of Ozzie Albies.
2.) For Julio Teheran send LHP Henry Owens along with LHP Brian Johnson.
3.) For Arodys Vizcaino send relief RHP Noe Ramirez along with no. 11 top Red Sox prospect RHP Travis Lakins.
4.) For Nick Markakis send no. 10 top Red Sox prospect 3rd base native of Marietta, Georgia Michael Chavis along with outfielder Rusney Castillo to offset salaries and for a change of scenery not only for Castillo as well for Markakis who prefers to play in the American League East.
bravesguru
Very well thought out. Need to execute the trade.
RunDMC
If BOS sends Frank Wren to be the negotiator, please add another few prospects on your demands. And if he asks why so much, tell him how hard it’s been to clean up after his mess and blow him a kiss.
Gogerty
HAHAHAHA, comment of the day sir.
R.D.
Shame Owens can’t keep his walks down, still I could see him being appealing in a Braves deal similar to Folty.
I think the smartest thing the Braves could do is ask for Shaw/Benintendi/Owens. It fills two of the Braves massive gaps and helps them immediately and in the future.
braves4life1
Red Sox Get:: Teheran and Vizcaino
Braves Get: Benintendi, Devers, Espinoza, and Swihart
Braves need Catching, 3rd base, and OF
bravesguru
Good proposal would have to consider.
kster224488k
Not major league ready talent
Gogerty
Love trades and transactions, the business of sports is always fun. Even as a Braves fan I cannot wait until Aug. 1.
David 29
BOS gets: Teheran, Vizcaino, and Ogando (some other piece that isn’t completely useless)
ATL gets: pick the package
1) Moncada + Kopech
2) Benintendi + Espinoza + Ockimey
maybe less, start negotiations.
bravesguru
Very good joke.
rogerswb25
If the braves really want ML ready talent then the deal will be in the offseason. No contender is going to swap ML ready talent for a non ace. The redsox are going to have to pay a premium for Teheran. With zero quality arms on the FA market this winter you have to make a deal via trade and Teheran is the best available at the moment. Atlanta has the most leverage in the negotiations because they don’t have to trade their best pitcher as he can be a good piece moving forward. If a deal happens at the deadline expect redsox fans to be disappointed.
Bob Smiley
the Braves like high upside former Tommy john pitchers or those that have a good chance to have Tommy John….throw in a few of those guys and you will get the Braves attention.
David 29
tbh.. we didn’t even trade for that many TJ pitchers- Fried, Paco, Banuelos, and Chris Withrow. But how many were aprt of legit trades?
Fried was in the Justin Upton trade. We didn’t get a TJ pitcher for Heyward. Nor did we for Miller. We didn’t for Simmons. We didn’t get a TJ pitcher for Gattis…
lmfao just keep being a smiley for your team and talk with some knowledge.
steelerbravenation
Julio,Vizcaino & Inciarte for Moncada, Benintendi, Owens, Swihart & Espinoza
Cd360
Red Sox hang up and call the Rays
bravesguru
OK, sounds even.
petfoodfella
Back to over valuing prospects again, it’s trade season.
vinscully16
The term “ace” continues to be misused. Teheran is the Braves number one starter, he is not an ace – no specific offence to Teheran. There are 6-8 “aces” in baseball, maybe (Kershaw, Bumgarner, etc.), but there are 30 number one starters. Referring to an “ace” and a #1 starter is not the same thing. Respect the “ace.”
Zcash10
Couldn’t agree more. Teheran is a good pitcher with a lot of quality. But the braves and “media” want other teams to pay a huge premium for him. I don’t think it will happen. Unless a GM turns into Dave Stewart!
kster224488k
He is an ace…..period..check his results lately
kster224488k
He’s been pitching pretty much like any ace I’ve ever seen the last month.
bravesguru
Teheran and Vizcaino have excess value of $119.4 Million. A trade with Boston should yield Blake Swihart, Yoan Moncada#1, Brian Johnson#6, Luis Basabe#8, and one of either Rafael Devers#2 or Andrew Benintendi#3 or Eduardo Rodriguez or Henry Owens. This would yield similar value back to Atlanta. Boston could have the option of taking Nick Markakis or Erick Aybar if they wish.
jp08
They would do it just to get Aybar…. In fact I bet they throw in JBJ and Betts just to make sure the Braves accept.
Bob M.
Teheran can’t get left handed batters out. He was murdered by them last year, and the only thing that has changed this season is he is his insanely low babip to lefties.
Teheran has a .182 babip to left handed hitters, with almost 4 walks over 9 and 6 k over 9. He is in the top 10 in hard hit balls vs left handed hitters, yet has a .182 babip. His career mark is 100 points higher.
Regression is coming and the braves better pull the trigger soon. Dombrowski is destined to blow up the future of the Red Sox and this is just the first step.
R.D.
The Sox would have to blow up their 25-man roster to blow up their future. Boegarts/Bradley/Betts/Price/Wright are the future and from what I can tell each one is staying put. Those guys make up an awesome core and the Sox would be crazy to sell them off in a “win now” mode.
This isn’t the Cubs office, the Sox have never shied away from eating the free agent market whole, they are in fine condition to lose some of their top prospects. In fact, they are probably in a better place to do so than any other team.
jp08
They do have a young core in place, minus a couple of pitchers. That’s why prospects for ML pitchers seems like a good move to me.
seamaholic 2
Meh. His OPS against for lefties is only about 100 points lower than his career. So there may be a little regression, but that’s not super significant if he continues to blow through righties like a knife through butter. Still would be the Sox #2 starter.
tvwthree
Pablo Sandoval, Hanley Ramirez, Allen Craig, Clay Buckholtz, and Rusney Castillo to the Braves for an autograph picture of Greg Maddux. No that’s a deal I’d love the Sox to make.
brandons-3
You’re looking at two of the most creative minds in baseball. What John Coppolella and Dave Dombrowksi have done over the course of their baseball careers is pretty noteworthy. Of course, the length and MLB success varies greatly at this juncture. What you have in DD is someone who I think understands the value of prospects in relation to proven MLB talent. How many teams today would trade two top 10 picks for a young slugger? Prospects are valuable,
no doubt, but there comes a point where you gotta go for the known player over the prospect. What did the Blue Jays receive for Roy Halladay? What did the Athletics receive for Matt Holliday after already giving up Carlos Gonzalez to get him? I remember in the 2008 offseason Jake Peavy wasn’t a Brave because they refused to trade San Diego Jordan Schafer. DD is realistic about the success rate of prospects and isn’t afraid to play his chips to win, which has proven to work more often than not. On the flip side, Coppy has gotten creative in some ways to acquire prospects and talent he thinks can help in the future. He gets there’s about a 50% success rate of prospects so his method has been to add as many pitchers as possible bc if you have 20 and only 10 are hits, you have 10 pitchers compared to if you invest in 10 and you only hit on about 5. With each team having something the other is interested in along with each side each having some degree of dead weight money, any potential deal would definitely be creative and analyzed for years to come.
jp08
Bro stop making good posts and throw out bad trades…… That’s what this is for. Not learning and understanding baseball and other peoples viewpoints. We are here to force our opinions down other people’s throats and bawl our eyes out when they disagree.
ironcitie
Swing for the fence throw freeman in the mix
bravesguru
The least the Braves will take for Julio Teheran fresh off a 1-hit CG shutout is Swihart (MLB Ready), Prospect#1, Yoan Moncada and either prospect#2 or #3, Andrew Benintendi or Rafael Devers. On Arodys Vizcaino #6 in all MLB fastball, the Braves will want at least a top5 prospect, or two 6-10 prospects So that would be Espinoza or Kopech or two of Johnson, Travis, Basabe, Marrero or Chavis. Other than this price being met it is difficult to imagine a deal. Braves need to keep Teheran and Vizcaino and shake hitters out of the tree.
steelerbravenation
I don’t want to see Julii dealt but the headline does say The Red Sox have been in touch with the Braves. So to me that means they are initiating the conversation. If that’s the case the Braves let them know what it’s gonna take if the Sox don’t want to do it than that’s on them. In Coppy I trust !!!
noraj9
I normally don’t waste my breath commenting on these things, but as a Braves fan seeing so many people talking Teheran and Viz down and people saying Braves fans over value them is getting old to me. It’s like this: Teheran is the Braves ace and would likely be a 2-3 on WS contenders. He’s a borderline TOR/high MOR guy (if that’s a thing). As the Braves ace he is the only reliable piece for the future. Everyone else needs more time or will get traded for bats. There’s no reason to trade Teheran OR Viz just to trade them. Both can be great pieces – cheap and controllable. Why wouldn’t you ask for the top guys? Otherwise hang on to them. It’s not rocket science ladies.
As for making the case for dealing them – as a contending team, the BoSox especially, I could see them selling the future for a ring. I know I would rather have a ring for the Braves instead of having “potential” to make the playoffs.
sebguy
INo Boston does not have the pieces. Beware the national media trying to hype the prospects from Boston and New York. I remember when we were told Buchholz was the next big thing.
I would suggest the first thing Bowden needs to do is realize the Braves do not have to trade Teheran. This isn’t a Hayward or Kimberly situation. If some team trades for Teheran and Vizcaino (who also doesn’t have to be traded), best believe they are going to have to pay out the behind!