2015 was essentially a lost season for Jonathan Lucroy. The Brewers catcher was limited to 103 games thanks to a concussion and a fractured toe, and he posted his worst numbers in four seasons by hitting only .264/.326/.391 with seven homers over 415 plate appearances. Down year notwithstanding, it’s still quite possible that had Lucroy could be wearing a different uniform today had he stayed healthy — the former All-Star garnered some trade buzz last winter as rivals teams looked to buy low. Brewers GM David Stearns didn’t pull the trigger on a deal, which looks like a shrewd decision given how Lucroy has thoroughly rebuilt his value.
Lucroy has been nothing less than baseball’s best all-around catcher in 2016. In addition to hitting .304/.361/.515 with nine home runs through 227 PA, Lucroy is also posting above-average pitch-framing numbers and has thrown out 24 of 32 runners trying to steal. Since fWAR doesn’t include framing value, there’s an argument that Lucroy has been even more valuable than his already-impressive 2.1 fWAR, which leads all qualified catchers by a healthy margin and ranks him within the top 30 of all players.
If that output wasn’t enough, Lucroy is also on one of the game’s most team-friendly contracts. He has roughly $2.7MM still owed to him in salary for this season, and he is controllable through 2017 on a $5.25MM club option (with a $250K buyout, though the option is a no-brainer to be exercised). Between the superstar production and the small salary commitment, it’s no surprise that Jeff Todd placed Lucroy atop both installments of the MLBTR Top 10 Trade Candidates rankings.
One wrinkle to Lucroy’s trade candidacy is his partial no-trade clause, which allows him to block deals to eight teams each season. Lucroy quite openly discussed his desire to play for a winning team during an interview in January, so it doesn’t seem like he’d stand in the way of a move to a contender, though he could obviously ask for some financial incentive to waive his clause if Milwaukee worked out a deal with one of those eight teams. The Nationals are the only team known to be on Lucroy’s list and while D.C. has shown interest in Lucroy in the past, they have no need for a catcher upgrade thanks to Wilson Ramos’ huge season.
So if not Washington, who else could be Lucroy’s new team? We can probably eliminate these teams since they’re either rebuilding, out of the race or are already set at catcher: Athletics, Blue Jays, Braves, Cardinals, Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Giants, Marlins, Orioles, Padres, Pirates, Reds, Rockies, Royals, Twins.
As I mentioned earlier, Lucroy (who turns 30 on Monday next week) won’t come at a big payroll cost, but the Brewers will surely ask for multiple blue-chip prospects and/or MLB-ready young players in return. This type of price tag definitely narrows the field, as some teams simply may not have the young talent to meet Milwaukee’s demands. Teams like the Angels, Mariners, Tigers and White Sox could all use a catcher upgrade but are hamstrung by thin farm systems.
The Mets’ farm system is more highly-regarded than the aforementioned teams, though they might well have to offer one of the young starters in their current rotation to get Milwaukee’s attention in a Lucroy trade. (Given the questionable health of Travis d’Arnaud and Lucas Duda, Lucroy would give the Mets a much-needed bat at catcher or first.) The Phillies can probably also be counted out, as while it’s fun to imagine them pausing their rebuild plans to capitalize on their surprising proximity to the wild card race, it’s probably unlikely that Philadelphia will trade some of the young talent it has amassed over the last year-plus.
The Indians have Yan Gomes locked up on a contract extension that could run through the 2021 season, though Gomes has been hampered by both injuries and inconsistency over the last two years, making him a weak link on a Cleveland team challenging for the AL Central. If you really look outside the box, you could conceive of a scenario where Cleveland offers two of their “untouchable” prospects in Clint Frazier, Bradley Zimmer or Bobby Bradley for Lucroy, then either trades Gomes in the offseason or uses Lucroy at first in 2017. (Gomes could also go to the Brewers in a Lucroy trade.) I would think it’s much more likely, however, that the Tribe focuses on outfield help at the deadline.
The Yankees don’t stand out as an obvious Lucroy landing spot given Brian McCann’s presence, though if Mark Teixeira’s knee injury ends up requiring season-ending surgery, Lucroy and McCann could split time between catcher and first base. (This timeshare could continue into 2017 if Teixeira leaves in free agency, or the Yankees could look to deal Lucroy or McCann in the offseason.) Lucroy’s bat would be a huge boost to a Yankees team that is hanging around the race despite a severe lack of offense. On the flip side, New York’s farm system is also not very deep, and GM Brian Cashman has thus far resisted trade offers for young pieces like Aaron Judge, Luis Severino, Jorge Mateo or Gary Sanchez.
The Cubs have the prospect depth to get involved in any trade market, though they don’t have a pressing need at catcher. Chicago ranks ninth among all teams in cumulative catcher bWAR for the season, as Miguel Montero and David Ross have both been very good defensively if below-average at the plate. Montero’s hitting may well pick up as he fully recovers from some back issues, though given how well the Cubs’ catching tandem is fielding the position and handing their spectacular rotation, Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer could easily stand pat at catcher. Plus, top prospect Willson Contreras is raking at Triple-A.
The Astros and Rays are in similar positions as teams with a clear need at catcher and some good young talent to offer, yet their biggest issue at the moment is just getting to .500. Even if a pennant run this season is questionable, either club could acquire Lucroy with an eye towards contending again in 2017. Houston asked about Lucroy last winter, and though Jason Castro’s minor revival at the plate has somewhat lessened the Astros’ need at catcher, Lucroy is obviously still a big upgrade. The Astros could also use Lucroy at first base in case top prospect A.J. Reed isn’t quite ready for the bigs. Tampa Bay may not be so eager to deal from its vaunted pitching depth given how Chris Archer, Matt Moore and Drew Smyly have all had their ups and downs this year, though Lucroy would definitively solve the Rays’ longstanding catcher problem.
The Rangers have been linked to Lucroy in trade rumors for months, yet recent reports suggest Texas may instead focus on pitching upgrades at the deadline. Robinson Chirinos has just been activated from the DL, plus the Bryan Holaday/Bobby Wilson combo has performed very well in Chirinos’ almost season-long absence. If Texas was interested in Lucroy over mostly this same catching corps last winter, however, they’re probably still interested in him now. The Rangers have as much young talent at both the major and minor league levels as anyone, and they’re one of the few clubs that could put together a package of four or even five young players without cleaning out their system.
The Red Sox could deal from their own minor league surplus to address their catching situation, as Christian Vazquez has been an excellent defender but a sub-replacement level hitter thus far in his MLB career. Boston’s catching depth has been thinned by Ryan Hanigan and Blake Swihart both hitting the DL, and Swihart had already been moved to left field due to defensive concerns. The Sox are another team that could acquire Lucroy and shift him to first next season if they want to give Vazquez another chance to catch, as Hanley Ramirez will get most of the DH duties once David Ortiz retires. It’s also possible Vazquez himself could be sent to Milwaukee as part of the Lucroy trade package, though clearly not as the headliner — the Brewers would demand at least one (or even two) of Yoan Moncada, Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers or Anderson Espinoza.
Catcher is not a deep position around the game, and Lucroy’s market could still develop quite a bit more before the trade deadline if a contender suffers an injury to its starting backstop. Lucroy’s ability to play first base also allows for some positional creativity for teams looking to jump into his market (as I noted earlier in a few examples). It’s possible the Brewers themselves could look to capitalize Lucroy’s high trade value by packaging him in a deal with Ryan Braun, who’s also hitting well but who is a tougher sell due to his pricey contract, injury history and PED baggage. There aren’t many teams who would be willing or able to absorb all of Braun’s deal, though pairing him with Lucroy would be a creative way for Stearns to clear Milwaukee’s biggest future payroll commitment.
All things considered, Lucroy is probably the most fascinating trade candidate to watch leading up to the deadline. It’s not often that a catcher is the centerpiece of the summer trade season, yet Lucroy is the perfect storm of a star catcher with a very reasonable contract who’s playing for a rebuilding club.
Photo courtesy of Steve Mitchell/USA Today Sports Images
start_wearing_purple
The Red Sox pitching problem isn’t just a short term problem. Besides Henry Owens, who hasn’t transitioned to the MLB successfully yet, the Sox best pitching prospects are a ways off. If they’re going to trade their best assests in the farm it won’t be for hitting, it’ll be for pitching.
User 4245925809
Agreed. See little to 0 chance of Boston trading for a Catcher when they control Vazquez for 5 more seasons. Price has named him as the best he’s ever thrown to. Most pitchers like him.
Guys like him are nearly impossible to produce.
Houcorrea
Eduardo Rodriquez?
chop
I used to hope the Braves would get Lucroy, but I am really enjoying watching Tyler Flowers handle the pitching staff and his bat is at least decent enough to keep him around long term so far!
Gogerty
I agree, wouldn’t mind seeing how Flowers does on a more full time basis end of this year and next. No sense in spending on a C right now.
chop
Exactly. Other than getting a younger, more defensive backup (AJ was great last year, not so much this year, especially on defense), I wouldn’t worry about catcher as long as we have Flowers. We just need a David Ross type back up!
Gogerty
Agreed sir.
baumer16
Jeez I’m honestly shocked reading this. Flowers??? I always thought the braves are one of the best matches for Lucroy. They have the pitching prospects to get a deal done and Lucroy I think would do wonders for that young pitching staff.
mikeyst13
Except Lucroy has flat out said he wants to play for a contender and Atlanta is not going to realistically contend for the next couple years. Why trade for a year and a half of Lucroy just to have him leave after next season?
baumer16
I don’t know enough about the braves to really know how close they are but Lucroy would be perfect for those young pitchers. Maybe get a hitter or two in free agency and I think they could compete.
I also wonder if Lucroy would be interested in a contract extension of he knew the Braves would go all out and try to win. I don’t think he would want something ridiculous
bravosfan4life
I’d still rather have lucroy we really don’t have anyone right now
chop
Have you not been watching the games? Flowers is a poor man’s Lucroy. He does the job just fine. Outstanding defense, and a solid enough bat.
Ravens_Last_Place
Molina isn’t even the best catcher in his own division anymore. Actually, he’s not second best either. Lucroy, Cervelli, then Molina. Sorry Cards fans.
EndinStealth
Wow. I don’t know why you even said that. It’s common knowledge but really why make the comment unless you’re a troll.
jd396
That’s so weird, a catcher who’s a few years past 30 isn’t as good as he used to be. Incomprehensible.
mike244
Suggesting Lucrpy could net TWO of Moncadada/Benintendi/Devers/Espinoza is just silly. Each is a top 30 prospect. No team in baseball will come close to offering two top 30s for 1.5 years of Lucroy.
I don’t think the redsox should use assets for catching, when they have an elite defender/great offense but with bad pitching. Would be a waste of resources IMO.
If a deal were to be made. Moncsds would definitely be off limits. Something like Devers+ Vaz could work. Maybe even a package centered around Swihart.
Either way, don’t think the redsox go after him.
Ray Ray
Yet another Red Sox fan that thinks their prospects are made of platinum. This is the top trade target of the deadline season. You aren’t getting him for a bargain. As this story showed, there are many teams that will be bidding up the price. So you are not going to have to pay what Lucroy is worth, you are going to have to pay more than the other guys in order to get him.
start_wearing_purple
I’m so sick of this “only Red Sox fans overvalue their prospects.” EVERY fan of EVERY team overvalues their prospects. Every prospect is like a lottery ticket. And with lottery tickets there is the ultimate fear that you only lose when you don’t play.
justacubsfan
Very true. Nowadays it’s so easy to read about a team’s prospects and think they’re all future superstars. Especially if the team has a great looking farm system… Realistically, we don’t know how each team values the prospects until after a big trade -see DBacks last year or two-
sigurd 2
All I will say is after the reading the Tehran thread I feel like it is only a matter of time before a Redsox fan floats a Moncada for Kris Bryant trade and thinks that is totally fair or ripping off the Redsox.
justacubsfan
Lol yeah. Braves fleeced the DBacks, so fans assume that’s how every GM thinks. I wouldn’t give up half of what I would for Teheran as I would Luc.
Valkyrie
Then stop overvaluing them. If you stop pretending that every kid in a Pawtucket, Portland, Salem, etc. uniform is certain to be the next coming of Cy Young and/or Ted Williams, we’ll stop criticizing Red Sox fans for thinking that that every kid in a Pawtucket, Portland, Salem, etc. uniform is certain to be the next coming of Cy Young and/or Ted Williams.
You might not like the criticism, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t without basis. But then, delusion and denial are characteristic of the specie.
Gogerty
Now as a Braves fan, most of us knew and understood the Miller trade was a fleecing. While that doesn’t stop our hope of getting something similar with Teheran, we know it won’t happen again soon.
Deke
I think much of this “over valuing” you’re talking about could possibly be related to how passionate the fans are as well as the high amount of media attention. Many other cities just don’t have a local media as Boston so that probably builds up the hype in people’s minds on certain prospects. On top of that teams like the Red Sox get a lot more national attention than most teams. Even teams with better farm systems.
Just my theory.
southi
Agree 100% that every team’s fans over value their own prospects. I am also of the opinion that most fans way over value the future value of all prospects. In all seriousness it is extremely difficult to project them since so many end up as AAAA type players. They excel in the minors but can’t get it done enough in the majors.
theo2016
It’s not as hard as you think
fangraphs.com/blogs/updating-prospect-valuations/
Keep in mind this will only get better as we have more minor league data available every year.
bravosfan4life
If we do trade him Boston is the best fit maybe getting mookie betts and yohan that 2nd baseman guy he might need to move to 3rd though with Albies n swanson up the middle
Chris Koch
Well, when guys like Swihart and Owens, Middlebrooks and Cecchini don’t live up to the hype it’s easy to be on the outside and say there’s a bias in the Red Sox organization to the rankings. Devers isn’t tearing up A ball this season. Doesn’t appear he rates Gold Glove future 4HRs in 1/3rd a season’s PAs would translate to 12HRs. About 25-30 below a 3b with his ranking if all he’s bringing to the table is decent avg+power. Benintendi was just drafted in Corey Ray,
I’d probably see an Espinosa, Kopech, ….you know what Boston doesn’t have what Milwaukee needs. Enough of that is. So I get the 2 of that top 4 suggestion, because immediately after it’s blah…..Moncada, Espinosa, Kopech probably the offer to get Lucroy.
One Fan
No fans overvalue their prospects as much as Red Sox fans do.
mike244
With this response, you obviously don’t know much about the value of trade assets and the evaluation of top prospects.
Lucroy is a valuable piece, but is is only controllable for 1.5 years and it’s not like he’s a major impact bat. You land him you are talking about likely one top prospect + a mid level. So something along the lines of a Devers + Vazquez or a Swihart + Travis or maybe even a Benintendi + smaller piece if the brewers were able to talk the redsox into in.
There is next to zero chance you can get TWO of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, or Espinoza for Lucroy. There isn’t a single team that will offer close to that. That’s a centerpiece for a Jose Fernandez trade.
baumer16
I think you’re comparing Lucroy to a bat like Arenado which in that case ya he’s not an impact bat compared to him. But last I looked he leads all catchers in almost every offensive statistical category and he’s one of the best defensive catchers. That to go along with his salary is incredible value. I do agree with you though that the Red Sox should be looking for pitching so I don’t really see them as a match. Lucroy would be more of a ‘luxury” type deal for them.
sfu13
Uh no. For Jose Fernandez Betts or Bogaerts would be the headliner. Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, or Espinoza would be the third piece.
chesteraarthur
haha…that’s just funny. Jose Fernandez isn’t Mike Trout.
darenh
He’s easily worth 2x Top 50s. Easily.
Look at the return teams are getting for Closers and you tell me one of the best Cachers in the game at a ridiculously low salary who’ll deliver 6 or 7 WAR in 1.5 seasons plus a first round pick if he declines a QO?
bravosfan4life
Lmao Denver would be stupid to trade no Nolan
Chris Koch
No, he’s just less expensive and better today and moving forward for 8 years. You don’t find 110K/25BBs pitchers in 1/3rd season for the taking.
mike244
Bogaerts, Betts, and Fernandez all have roughly similar trade values. All are 5-7 WAR players. Fernandez has 3yrs control, Bogaerts 4, Betts have 5 under control.
Kevin 23
Yeah, why would you be optimistic about Red Sox prospects considering the play of Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley Jr., Swihart, etc. Are you kidding?
sigurd 2
If 1.5 years of Lucroy, a top 30 player position player in the game in the most important spot on the diamond isn’t worth a top 30 prospect, who exactly is? Moncada? Hes 3-4 years from the majors and proven absolutely nothing.
A league average catcher offensively is 18% below league average. Lucroy is at 29% above league average and 47% above an average catcher offensively without even taking into account defense, play calling and pitch framing all of which he excels at.
justacubsfan
Yeah and it’s not like he’s a half season rental he has roughly 6.5 mil for 1.5 years. And what people don’t realize is he will likely get a QO from whichever team trades for him. So you’d be getting a draft pick or you could sign him long-term (barring injury). Luc is easily worth a top 20 prospect as a the headliner and a couple other prospects (top 100 and maybe a high floor or lotto ticket).
chesteraarthur
They aren’t just top 30 prospects though – (Baseball America) Moncada is #3, Benintendi is #15, and Devers/Espinoza are 18 and 19 respectively.. There is a top 5 and then 4 top 20 prospects.
The point of Pittsburgh looked at the war value of different prospects ranked at different positions over a period of time (it’s split into prospect ranking and also hitters vs. pitchers).
thepointofpittsburgh.com/how-much-an-mlb-prospect-…
theo2016
Sigurd, moncada will be promoted to double a after he plays his all star game and as the astros, Indians and cubs showed last year with correa, lindor and russell the top prospects don’t need much seasoning in triple a. So he’s in the bigs next year, 3-4 years is just crazy.
mike244
Moncada is probb 1-2 year away not 3-4.
Lucroy is a 4 war player. With 1.5 years of control, he’s valuable but he’s not some elite trade asset.
Moncada, is arguably the best prospects in baseball, he isn’t “just a top 30”.
Lucory should bet a top 50 + a few good not great prospects.
justacubsfan
Lucroy would net something very similar. A top 10-20, another top 100 (most likely in the 40-80 range) and a lotto or two. That’s pretty similar in value as 2 top 30s if they’re both in the 20-30 range
Houcorrea
And possibly a triple a utility player
brewfan21
The Brewers would have ZERO interest in ANY of Boston’s prospects for Lucroy unless a MLB ready player was a bigger part of the deal. They are loaded with middle infielders and outfielders in their good farm system. Plus Devers is only in A ball and way to far away to be of any help to the Crew. Their GM has already stated they want at least one MLB ready player (pitcher or 3B) plus prospect/prospects for Lucroy.
Jeff Todd
Not that I’m necessarily validating this entire trade concept, but … I have a hard time seeing Stearns balk at the idea of acquiring Moncada or Devers because he needs a player at the major league level and is afraid of having too many infielders.
ammiel
Mr Polishuk didn’t leave room for many contenders speculatively fitting Lucroy into their plans, surely plenty of teams will be interested, or could it be so that Stearns and the Brew Crew are planning on contending in the near term…i think so.
blacksmokeMark
To Mark Polishuk.. Why would the Yanks trade for him.. They have a catcher batting around .300 in Austin Romine!!
andropov4
I hope you’re being facetious. Romine’s track record suggests he’ll not keep it up. He also is walking approximatel never, keeping his value as a hitter at roughly average despite the high BA. He’s also never played even half a season’s worth of games. Counting on Romine would likely be a big mistake.
stymeedone
Just as counting on Cervalli?
blacksmokeMark
Track record!?!? If you know about track record , look how many catchers the yanks let go and who is still there! Yankees let go of 6 catchers and Romine is still there.. So what does that tell you!.. Oh yea he was also the Yankees choice two years in a row to be in the futures games , then got hurt and last year made the AAA all star team.. Thank you Stymeedone , exactly!!
WrongVerb
Lucroy for Rangers Jurickson Profar. That should be pretty obvious.
justacubsfan
Lol good joke. Lucroy is worth Gallo plus.
Houcorrea
B. S
Valkyrie
To a Rangers fan, I’m sure it is “obvious”.
Chris Koch
Profar isn’t a rookie, he’ll be entering Arbitration after the season already. Brewers want Gallo. After Gallo if you don’t accept that, I’d assume Tate, Ortiz, Matuella or Mendez trio of pitchers and maybe toss in Travis Demeritt as a 3b tryout.
Dave4585
Mets are probably the best match. Travis Darnaud is always injured and inconsistent and Plawecki is a AAAA player. They also have the most chips to trade than any other team and are a World Series contender so Lucroy would like to be there. Mets also lack a high average solid contact hitter, they are all or nothing at the plate so they could use him.
brewermayne
Brewers will ask for matz in a deal
jkim319
Lucroy for Matz… Interesting starting point. Both teams would have reason to say ‘I want a little more’ (which means this is pretty close). Opposing teams would say ‘whoa’ to returns for both teams..
Wondering what Lucroy would mean for development of all the young starters … Shutting down the running game… Adding a dangerous bat… To a team that wants to get over the hump.
metstruth
I think everyone in baseball see’s that the Mets view that front 4 as untouchable. The Mets will hang up the phone if you ask for any of those guys. The only pitcher on that team who is up for being dealt is Zack Wheeler, whom the Brewers had interest in dealing Gomez for,
Here is my proposal. Wheeler+D’arnaud+Nimmo+Reynolds for Lucroy+Hill+Smith.
I don’t think the Red Sox are desperate enough to deal Manconda to land him and as far as the Dodgers are concerned I think the max package you will get from them is De Leon and Grandal or some package centered around Puig. The Rangers may be willing to trade profar to acquire lucroy but Gallo is untouchable in my eyes.
I think they get the best package from the Mets. To me the Mets make the most sense here.
darenh
They don’t want old players!
Stearns wants young, high upside guys which is why Texas still lines up best.
bkobow05
That is a horrible package.. You’d be lucky to get just Lucroy for that. You’re not getting players tacked on for a #3 SP coming off TJS with only 3 years of team control, a C that flat out can’t stay healthy, a non-power hitting corner OF and a AAAA player (Reynolds).
BTW, the Brewers showed interest in Wheeler LAST YEAR with a DIFFERENT General Manager. The Mets simply don’t match up unless they are giving up Wheeler (with a team friendly contract extension), Amed Rosario AND another prospect. Sorry.
drmorales
I think DArnaud or Plawecki would likely be in a deal for Lucroy. Mets will not trade Matz in any deal but clearly from last years almost trade, Brewers have interest in Wheeler and he is much closer to returning.
baumer16
I love it when fans say their particular team WILL NOT trade so and so. Like they’re in the front office making decisions or have any idea of what their teams game plan is. I understand if the Mets don’t want to trade Matz for Lucroy but I also understand why the Brewers wouldn’t want to trade Lucroy for Wheeler and change. Who knows what will happen but I’ve never seen a match with the Brewers and Mets.
thunder12k
Matz has a very bright future. The core of this Mets team is Thor, Matz, deGrom and Harvey. Breaking up that core does not make sense. Maybe in the offseason if they could trade one for Arenado or something like that but this current teams WS hopes depend on those 4 arms.
I don’t know how you can say you’ve never seen a match with the Brewers and Mets. They agreed on a deal for Gomez last year. You know they like Wheeler and Flores, although they have a new GM in charge now. Wheeler would have to interest them still. Wheeler is a month away from returning to the mound so Lucroy for Wheeler would make a good starting point
baumer16
Again that was for Gomez, they matched up for him. That’s like saying the Brewers and Angels traded once so they obviously match up for a guy like Trout? Sounds ridiculous. They do like Wheeler, i’m sure every team in the league would like a player like Wheeler, except the Brewers should be asking for more than that in my opinion for arguably the best catcher in the league signed for pennies for the next 1.5 years.
doctorstrangeglove
Also when the Brewers and Mets had their agreement last season, that was Doug Melvin as the Brewers GM, and not David Stearns, who is the GM now.
I think that is just one more reason why it cannot be assumed that Wheeler is a player of interest to the Brewers for Lucroy,
metstruth
It would take D’arnaud+Wheeler+Reynolds+Nimmo or some package like that to land Lucroy, Yes while Wheeler has been out a year and a half with TJ surgery many surgeries including(Strasburg’s, Harvey’s, and Wainwright’s) have proven to be succesful of late.
The only thing that the Brewers may not like is Travis in the deal because he has been a frequent injury concern.
Chris Koch
Not a good rebuild deal at all. Reynolds never touches a Brewers diamond due to ML being filled. Wheeler and D’Arnaud have what? 3 years of team control a piece? 2? They bring no value with only hopes they produce to return on next year’s or 2017 deadline trade? Nimmo is understandable of all of them but as a Piece since his OF spot is redundant with Phillips to roam CF and Santana at RF. Braun LF. + like 6 or 7others behind taking their shots. Brewers after taking Ray, can only take a Legit SP prospects with longer than 4years team control if not 5years. Or a legit Stud potential at a position like Gallo at 3b could be thought as.
thunder12k
Wheeler is the only starter for sale. Milwaukee wanted him last year Flores for 1.5 years of Gomez. Maybe Wheeler (close to returning) Dilson Herrera for Lucroy would be even.
Crewfan620
It might be even but it doesn’t get the deal done. None of those players are a top tier talent with exception of Wheeler and he is hurt so there are obvious question marks. Dilson Herrera is underwhelming as a secondary piece as well. Might be fair in your estimation but I guarantee that someone else will offer a better package than that.
thunder12k
And maybe they have to include another prospect but Wheeler is a legit arm who has had some success in the big leagues. Maybe the Dodgers decide to give up more but they don’t have an arm to offer better than Wheeler. I’d say the same for Texas. They have an enviable pool of exciting prospects but they are still just prospects.
mikeyst13
While the Brewers obviously have interest in Wheeler I don’t see them targeting him in a Lucroy deal. They have pretty much said that they are working on about a 3 year plan, and Wheeler only has 3 years of control left. That means as soon as they see themselves ready to compete the guy that would presumably be their ace will be on the way out for a potential big contract. They want younger guys with more control so Matz would be the target.
Chris Koch
Urias is like offering DeGrom….Easily and by far a better prospect than Wheeler. Grant Holmes,, Jose De Leon, Frankie Montas, Walker Buehler, Yadier Alvarez all are better arms for Milwaukee to acquire than Wheeler.
bkobow05
Wheeler has 3 years of control left. The Dodgers have a guy by the name of Jose De Leon who is on par, if not better, than Wheeler as a prospect and has the entire 6 years of control left. They could add Cody Bellinger and another prospect and the deal is already better than what the Mets have to offer.
justacubsfan
Lucroy will probably stay in the national league. My guess is to a team like the Dodgers. A package around De Leon, Bellinger plus (Barnes or Yasmani and cash?). Dodgers could use another bat. Brewers get an immediate replacement for lucroy. 1 blue chip and another decent prospect. Dodgers are like 3 back from Giants. They need to make a move to improve on their roster to overtake Giants. Their pitching has been solid and bullpen okay. Hitting has been killing them. Their lineup would look tough with him in their. They likely could involve Braun in the trade and maybe score another prospect or upgrade over Bellinger.
justacubsfan
Or even the mets. I would put Dodgers and Mets at 1&2 in no particular order for most likely to deal for either or both top brewer sluggers. The Brewers probably get the most value trading separately.
sigurd 2
The Brewers have no need for an immediate replacement, they can pull up anyone from AAA to fill in while in non contention.
De Leon and a B prospect probably does get it done though.
brewcat
The Brewers have Pinto in AAA, who is an interesting stop-gap until Nottingham is ready.
mikeyst13
Pinto was once a high catching prospect and Pina is flat raking at AAA, either would be a better option than a veteran stop gap, they want guys with lots of control left.
metstruth
I could see De Leon+Grandal going to the Brewers or some package like that. But they definitley aren’t landing lucroy with De-leon alone.
bravosfan4life
Good god the dodger do not need anyone else they are the new skankees
socalbum
Dodgers definitely need a catching upgrade, have the players/prospects for a trade, and the financial wherewithal to take on Braun’s contract if needed to land Lucroy.
stymeedone
The reason Detroit wouldn’t be interested is that they have McCannon. His bat is just starting to get hot because of a sprained ankle he has been recovering from. Sure, Lucroy is absolutely better, but starting C is not a position of need. (Pitching is.)
After all the talk of how good Lucroy is at C, why would any team even consider moving him to 1B, other than to give him a day off from C while keeping his bat in the lineup. Just like Swihart, his bat doesn’t rate as well when you move his position. Why make him average when you are giving up top talent to acquire him.
baumer16
I don’t think most teams would but it would be an option for a team like the Mets who have a hole there until they get healthy. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to put Lucroy there for a game here and there when needed. Obviously not permanently though
PhilliesFan012
Would it be crazy to think that a possible trade of Braun and Lucroy to the Dodgers could happen?
Dodgers ship Puig, Urias and others to get two hot bats to a struggling offense? If not Urias then De Leon.
I don’t think that sounds to far off since LA can afford Braun and has the prospect depth to pull it off.
Not to Mention they really need as much of an offensive boost as humanly possible.
baumer16
I don’t think it’s crazy at all but I’m not sure the Dodgers want another high salary outfielder. I could see Lucroy and a reliever going to the Dodgers. They have the prospects to pull that off and would be a huge get
PhilliesFan012
The reason I see it happening is because the Dodgers have money, a lot of it, and they could definitely overlook the salary for his bat. Braun and Lucroy make that team a scary good offensive club. I know it’s not guaranteed they would preform but the upside is to great. And if they went after a pitcher, maybe not a number 1 guy but maybe Hellickson, cashner or Ross etc… Then the Dodgers are a legit threat
steelerbravenation
Lucroy and Will Smith to the Mets for D’Arnaud, Nimmo, Wheeler & Herrara.
Gives the Mets the catcher they need and a strong bullpen arm. Gives the Brewers a stop gap catcher til Nottingham is ready. A SP that would jump to the top of the rotation. A starting 2B of the future go with Arcia. And a top 5 Met prospect.
baumer16
This is an awful deal for the Brewers.
steelerbravenation
Why is that awful ? Do you feel the the Brewers could do better than a starting C that can be flipped when Nottingham is ready (D’Arnaud’s bat holds value). A starting 2B of the future and a mid-rotation SP that although is coming off TJ surgery is signed for more years than Lucroy and was a top prospect not too long ago. And also a top 4 Met prospect.
Now if you believe it is an awful trade please explain why ? ???? If you can think of a better one from Mets or Another team please explain.
Lucroy is signed for what will amount to 1 and a half years I don’t know how long Smith is signed for.
baumer16
Well let me tell you. First there is a reason why the Mets are rumored to be trying to upgrade their catching situation, because D’arnaud isn’t cutting it. So the Brewers would just be salivating to get a guy the Mets don’t think can even cut it? This is a classic fan move, we don’t want this guy but some other team will value him super high. Not the case.
I like Wheeler but he’s coming off TJ surgery and he probably won’t be 100% back to his old self this year, and possible ever. You just don’t know. So why would the Brewers risk that by giving up arguably the best catcher in the game? And I keep hearing well the Brewers liked him last year for Gomez blah blah. Well yeah for Gomez, who isn’t in the same ballpark as a guy like Lucroy is. I love a lot of prospects but that doesn’t mean I love them all for a player like Lucroy. Furthermore I think Wheeler could be a good #2 to #3 type starter as he’s kind of always been projected at, Brewers should be looking for a future ace in return. I’m just guessing but I would think the asking price would be Matz . And I think its fine if the Mets would say no but thats what they should be asking for.
Third, you’re extremely underrating Smith. Smith alone should get maybe a little less haul then Giles got but around that. Smith is signed for pennies through the 2020 season and fan graphs had him listed as the 8th best reliever in baseball before the season started. And he’s a lefty, thats incredible value.
So again unless the Brewers fire Stearns and hire Dave Stewart mid season its hard to see a deal like that happening or anyone thinking it’s close to being fair.
steelerbravenation
Lol if you think Smith gets a haul in the ballpark of Giles. And I didn’t say D’Arnaud was the centerpiece of the deal that is obviously Wheeler who woulda been the centerpiece of the same 1 and a half year deal for the all star CF the Brewers tried to deal to get him last year. And finally Herrara could be substituted for another prospect. I was just thinking he is closest to being major league ready as is Arcia and they would develop together. If you want one of the 2 SS prospects that are a couple years away and move them to 2nd than that’s fine by me.
I am not even a Met fan so I don’t see where you would say my proposal was a classic fan move. Regardless who they trade Lucroy for somebody would have to catch until Nottingham is ready. Who better than a guy who’s bat is projected to play better than average coming off an injury that would reestablishes himself. Never was about D’Arnaud not cuuting it. The Mets don’t have time for him to get back on track they are in win now mode.
And I believe you are overvaluing Will Smith a bit. Every year there is a new 8th best reliever in baseball.
baumer16
Lol if you don’t think Smith could get in the ballpark of Giles. Dave Cameron of Fangraphs thinks so and one of the writers on here, can’t remember which one was asked in a chat who the Brewers would ask for in a trade with the Twins for Smith and he said they would probably ask for Berrios. Which I think is even too much but that puts it into perspective of what kind of value he has. He is a dominant left handed reliever. But with your thought process and being a braves fan I’m sure you would trade Vizcaino now for very little. And i’m sure your fellow braves fans would strongly disagree with you.
steelerbravenation
Vizcaino is our closer and even at that I don’t think the Braves would be able to nor would I expect them to pull a haul similar to the Giles deal. If that were the case I would be on here pushing a Vizcaino deal. And they could have asked the Twins for Berrios but they woulda never got him.
A 2B of the future, a number 2 or 3 Sp, a top 5 prospect, & a starting caliber stop gap above average offensive catcher who is signed longer and still could pull value in a later trade for a catcher with 1 1/2 yrs on his contract and a set up guy. We have differing opinions I will leave it at that. Maybe wanna add another 7-12 prospect I don’t think the Mets would oppose that.
baumer16
Just because he’s top 5 prospect in the Mets organization doesn’t mean he’s a top prospect. D’arnaud again doesn’t offer much and he can’t stay healthy which again is why the Mets are trying to upgrade. Herrera and Nimmo are not top one hundred prospects. So you’re basically saying the Mets will trade you a future 2 or 3 with only a few years left coming off TJ surgery and a couple of average prospects for the best catcher in the game who’s signed for one more year at a minimal price and while you’re at it throw in one of the best bullpen pieces in the game who’s signed for pennies until the 2021 season. Do you see why that trade is laughable? Again i’m not going to keep going around and around with you on this, we obviously don’t see eye to eye on this or anything remotely close to this.
Houcorrea
Maybe the Giles if this year but not last
thunder12k
I think you are exaggerating
IndianaBob
I actually think this is a decent trade for both I am not a fan of either team so this is a neutral opinion. Ok
baumer16
And thats fine and you’re entitled to your opinion but think of it this way. Last year when the Brewers traded Wheeler for Gomez and some other small pieces, even when Gomez wasn’t terrible he wasn’t nearly the type of player Lucroy was. So why would the Brewers settle for Wheeler when they’re giving up a far better player than Gomez? Who’s cheaper too.
steelerbravenation
At the time Gomes was traded last year he was just as good as what Lecroy is now and signed for the same amount of time. Gomes was having a good year and had a good year the season before if I recall correct.
baumer16
So you’re saying that Gomez last year was arguably the best player at his position? Because that is what Lucroy is right now. You can’t honestly say that with a straight face
chesteraarthur
Being the best player at your position is irrelevant to a players value. If you have one guy who is the best player at his position who provides 6 war and one guy who is the 12th best at his position and provides 6 war they are still similarly valuable.
Their values in a trade have way more to do with teams’ needs and available options on the market.
baumer16
Disagree. Lucroys value is where its at because he is a catcher. If they moved him to 1st base do you honestly think he would be the number 1 player on the trade market? It’s hard to find catchers that can hit and play great defense.
chesteraarthur
If you moved him off catcher that would alter his value(war). So your example doesn’t work.
That is also completely unrelated to your original point about him being the best at his position. Making up strawman arguments doesn’t make your original point better.
chesteraarthur
Let’s say that you have 2 4 win players. Player A. is the best at his position, but there are 3 available players that are extremely close to his value. There is 1 team that needs to upgrade the position that player A and his peers play.
Then you have Player B who is, let’s say, the 5th best player at his position, but there are 4 teams that want to upgrade the position that player B plays and he’s the only option that is close to that level on the market.
Which player do you think will get a higher return? My money is on player B, because regardless of whether or not he is the best player at his position, the amount of supply and demand will ultimately drive the return more than some moniker of being the best at your position will.
baumer16
I understand what you’re saying and maybe I worded it poorly but my point was I think it’s much harder to find a really good catcher than a really good outfielder. But you’re right it’s all about supply and demand
Chris Koch
Nah, you are confused on this. 6WAR in one position that ranks 12th and 6WAR at another position that ranks 1st is all dependent on available players in trade and what you’re playing today.
Take Yan Gomes. -WAR over Lucroy’s 2WAR The next available catcher you could trade for has just 1WAR. Cleveland is not only improving their team with 2+WAR but acquiring a player who’s 1WAR better than any team’s also looking for a Catcher.
That 12th guy with 6WAR he’s not better than the other 11guys. What about expense? Age? Team Control? There could be 1-11players better to acquire in a trade than this 12th guy.. It’s the equivalent of Clayton Kershaw with Lucroy’s contract understand? That is the improvement a team gets with Lucroy over any other Catcher they can trade for. Just as Kershaw would be an improvement over any other pitcher.
doctorstrangeglove
No. Last year, Gomez was having an ok, but not all that good of a year. OPS+ of 104, OPS of .751 at the time he was dealt to Houston. He did have a fantastic 2014 and 2013 before that, and on ok 2012 season.
Lucroy is having a better season this season (and had really good to great 2012, 2013, and 2014, and a down-for-Lucroy year last year).
Lucroy has had two full seasons already where he has had an OPS+ above 130, not counting this season. Gomez never did (although he did have 129 in 2014, and 128 in 2013).
That, and it’s hard to compare a center fielder with a catcher. It’s hard, but not too difficult to get a good CF in a trade, and it is extremely difficult to get a good (or great) catcher in a trade.
Chris Koch
Will Smith for Wheeler and Nimmo+Herrera is about fair value. Adding Lucroy takes Steven Matz over Wheeler and no Will Smith.
Goose
Odd article. The only two team sin contention that could really use Lucroy are the White Sox. and Rangers.
All the other team’s listed either have catchers locked up or there is no need. or a greater need.
The Red Sox have great defense up the middle with Vasquez Boegarts, Pedroia and Bradley. If they do a package that includes multiple top prospects they are going to make a run at a top starter.. This assumes one will be available. Most likely they are going to grab some bullpen arms and hope and pray Porcello or Bucholz get into a streak at the end of the season.
HarveyD82
the bucs are going to need a catcher w/cervelli hurt his hand. I’ve always been against inter division trades, but lucroy is good.
steelerbravenation
I would say Lucroy for Profar but I don’t think the Rangers would do that.
Crewfan620
It would likely have to include a few other pieces. The competition in the market will drive up his price and with the Brewers looking to contend in a couple years yet, pieces that are big league ready now start the clock a bit early for them. I like Profar, but if it’s a 1:1 trade then I would rather take my chances on a few prospects
Chris Koch
Profar doesn’t have enough team control and the Brewers have a guy name Villar who’s going to need 2b or 3b to play when Arcia gets called up.. From Texas it’s Joey Gallo. Or else the Pitchers coming up Tate, Ortiz,+
MikePLV10
Braves could be a good partner here. (If they are serious about getting better next year and not 2-3yrs from now)
Bruan could be package with Lucroy for a package with Inciarte, 2 pitching prospects/ Davidson. That’s not a huge haul for the Brewers, may need to add something else, but A team taking on Bruans contract will likely give less..
I am surprised more teams aren’t interested in Braun!
bravosfan4life
No I do not want a known Roderick on our team
bravosfan4life
Roider
steelerbravenation
The only way the Braves go for Lucroy is after next season when he is afree agent.
MikePLV10
I would think, any team that trades for him will sign him to a deal just over Cervelli’s. He would be a great piece to start putting the MLB team back together.. Would be great for the young pitchers coming in..
mikeyst13
Some of these trades people are throwing out there may seem OK in immediate value, but let’s get this straight, the Brewers want top prospects or young guys with at lest 4 or 5 years of control left. They have said they are working on about a 3 year plan, so adding stop gap catchers with little control left or young MLB pitchers with only a couple years of control to your proposals are not going to entice them in the least bit.
MikePLV10
What would be you thoughts on a Lucroy/Bruan package? (Braves) just for fun? Be realistic though lol.. Again assuming Braves pick up Braun entire contract.
mikeyst13
Blair, Allard and Riley I think is a good groundwork. Would give Milwaukee a good pitching prospect that is pretty much MLB ready, a high upside lefty, and a possible 3B of the future who while not super highly ranked is rapidly moving up lists. Seeing as how the Brewers have tossed around the idea of 2 top 100 prospects and a wildcard just for Lucroy adding Braun to the deal may require a couple more pieces, starting with another arm (Fried, Sims, Soroka, Ellis) and an OF (Davidson, Peterson, Acuna) depending on the financials as I doubt any team will want to take on Braun’s entire salary.
MikePLV10
I think that is pretty close.. Think Ruiz might be the 3b, Ellis on the pitcher and Davidson for OF <though I would prefer Peterson..
mikeyst13
My concern with Ellis would be that his expectations have seemed to plateaued at fringe starter but more likely a 2 pitch bullpen arm. While there is still value in that the Brewers system is full of those kinds of arms and they need someone who at least has some possible upside of a 3 or 4 starter.
MikePLV10
I see the point on Ellis..I think he will be a bullpen guy as well..interesting trade thought though.. Would def. help speed up the Braves rebuilt. And help stock the Brewers system.
mikeyst13
If Santana can live up to his potential and Arcia and Phillips end up being anywhere near what they are projected to be then adding some pitching along with a couple upside bats would go a long way to helping the Brewers turn it around in a few years. Hopefully a core of Villar, Arcia, Phillips, Santana, Nottingham, and a couple other prospects panning out (Clark, Harrison, Riley or Davidson in this hypothetical) would give us a good young roster to work with. And Lucroy is as good as gone in 2 years anyway.
bravosfan4life
I want lucroy not Braun I don’t want a cheater on our team
mikeyst13
You mean like your closer Vizcaino?
MikePLV10
^ making that trade would just replace one with another then! Blair tested positive right before he was drafted..
MikePLV10
Hey man!! Lol.. Life goes on..
mikeyst13
That’s right, I forgot about Blair. And I am in no way condoning Braun’s (or anyone’s) actions, but the reality is almost every team has at least one guy that has been busted or at least firmly tied to PEDs. That’s just the current reality of the game.
MikePLV10
^completely agree.. If Braves got Bruan, and he hit 30hr and drove in 100rbis no one would care! To bad we aren’t the GMs, deal would be done today!!
Chris Koch
For Lucroy+Braun: Newcomb, Allard, and Swanson.
steelerbravenation
The Braves are not trading for Lucroy and risk losing him after next year. They will either sign Wieters (if they are truly trying to compete next year) or waiting a year and going hard for Lucroy when he hit free agency(more likely).
If they are true to themselves when they say they wanna compete next year the moves I see making sense would be to trade Markakis this year(package him with a better prospect to try and get something of use). Then sign Wieters, Prado and a SP that can sit in the top tier of the rotation. Then trade some prospects for a RF with power.
If the choose to really go full throttle for 2018 then I say clean Julio goes.
MikePLV10
Lucroy is better than Wieters.. Just looking at what he provides defensively makes him the guy they should get. (If he gets traded the new team will sign him) Braun is a power hitting LF (2yrs removed from suspension) they can still sign Prado to play 3rd. Not much value with Nick right now.
Smith
Markakis
Braun
Freeman
Lucroy
Prado
Swanson
Albies/Peterson/d’arnuad
Pitcher
Not a bad lineup for a new ball park
steelerbravenation
I agree I would prefer Lucroy I just don’t think the Braves would make a trade to get him and run the risk of losing him. And there is no way he signs an extension with a team that acquires him. It’s not that easy to just sign a guy because you acquired him. Guys play a long time to have the ability to call their own shots. I can’t recall it ever happening as a matter of fact. And besides he already signed a team friendly deal I don’t think he does that again and he will not know how to play negotiations til bidding starts.
MikePLV10
I would say it’s not unheard of for a player to be traded and then signing an extension.. (Hunter Pence to start) Also Lucroy is a Louisiana guy, not sure he gets any closer to home then ATL. I don’t think he signs a team friendly deal. But something between Cervelli’s and Martin’s contracts seems reasonable. I know looking at the team now, it’s a hard sell to him. But with the new stadium and money to spend next yr, if this trade is possible it makes the team instantly better. Keep Teheran/Vizciano, add another bullpen arm.. That’s a good team next yr.
steelerbravenation
Since the Brewers fans shot down my Mets deal how bout Lucroy & Smith to the Astros for Bergmann, Castro & Martes ????
baumer16
Whoa!!! Now you’re on to something. That would be a very difficult deal to turn down for the Brewers.
Chris Koch
Let’s go Reed, Martes, and Tucker with Joe Musgrove for Lucroy and Smith who’s maybe best LH Reliever in MLB so he’s not coming cheap.
baumer16
That’s good too but if the name Bregman came up it would be hard to turn that down even if it meant taking less
steelerbravenation
If the Astros feel they can make a move in the next 2 yrs I feel it would be a fair deal for both teams. I would do it if I was either team. Still think they may need to make a move on an arm.
Theresabrewing
As a Brewers fan I’ve read the potential trades that you guys have posted, and I don’t think the Brewers or the Braves would ever do a deal including Braun and Lucroy. Honestly, when was the last time you’ve seen a rebuilding club such as the Braves cash in there coveted prospects when they have no chance at the Pennant in the next coming years. The Braves right now are BAD. This would be horrible for their rebuild as they would only have Lucroy for the year and a half, and Braun’s contract is way too large for the Braves over that amount of time. Even if they did have success in the short term with the Braun contract, in a couple of years the other key contributors would want big bucks too. It’s not like the Braves are the Yankees or Dodgers. If the Braves want to have a successful rebuild they will sell at the deadline. It would be a horrible mistake for them to make that sort of trade.
Going back to my Crew, I would like to propose my own Lucroy trade!
…………………………………………………………….
MILWAUKEE BREWERS RECEIVE:
Joey Gallo- 3B/OF
Luis Ortiz- RHP
Michael Matuella- RHP
Tyler Phillips- RHP
…………………………………………………………….
TEXAS RANGERS RECEIVE:
Jonathan Lucroy- C
Jeremy Jeffress- RHP
…………………………………………………………….
I believe this is a very fair deal on both sides. Gallo is of course the centerpiece as the #7 prospect according to MLB.com, Ortiz is the #4 prospect in their system and the #67 in baseball, Matuella is #7 in the Rangers’ system and not in the top 100, and Phillips is your so-called lotto ticket as the Rangers’ current #30 prospect. The reasons for it being a good trade on the Rangers part is obvious. Not to mention Jeffress could be substituted if the Rangers wanted something else.
mikeyst13
The Rangers make sense and have reportedly inquired, but rumors were that Milwaukee wants Gallo (obviously) and the Rangers won’t include him. Unless they change that I don’t see it happening.
The Braves are obviously bad right now, but they claim they are not rebuilding but plan to load up and hope to compete next season. Not sure I believe that, but they do have some intriguing young pitching and if they could trade for Lucroy and Braun it would go a long way to help that. A lineup starting out with Inciarte, Lucroy, Braun, Freeman is a heck of a 1-4. Add another bat in free agency and all of a sudden that is a pretty good line up.
Theresabrewing
I can see where you are coming from, but as said in the previous comments supply and demand is key. If I were the Rangers I wouldn’t want to trade Gallo either, but if other clubs are battling each other to make the trade happen then it could be a real possibility. Though if the Rangers wouldn’t let Gallo go no matter what, then it could be Brinson or Tate as the headliner with another prospect attached to them.
mikeyst13
Brinson could get the ball rolling, Tate I’m not so sure. He has a very laboring delivery and it really wore on him down the stretch at UCSB and he still doesn’t have a great third pitch. If they are looking for a pitching prospect I think other teams could offer a much safer guy than Tate. He’s got good upside with his fastball/slider combo, but hasn’t really been showing a ton in A ball this year.
Something around Brinson and Cordell (who the Brewers could use at 3B but is very blocked in the Rangers system at almost any possible position) would be interesting.
Selkies
Obviously not an Indians or Brewers fan but those teams seem to match up well for Lucroy.
Maybe something like…
Brewers: Jonathan Lucroy
Indians: Yan Gomes, Clint Frazier, Bobby Bradley, + a lottery ticket
I think that would get it started. It makes sense for the Indians as they have a stellar staff and they could definitely use a player like Lucroy on offense, as well.
mrtplush
I am really doubting the Brewers want another corer OF prospect in Frazier. Unless the other deals are underwhelming I bet they would prefer someone at a different position. They passed on him in the draft so I am not sure what level of interest the Brewers would have in him, but Aiken as a target would be interesting. It would require more secondary prospects though. This would be a more sensible deal in my opinion…I doubt the Indians would “sell low” so to speak on Aiken though
Lucroy
for
Bradley
Aiken
Sheffield
Diaz maybe Mejia