8:12pm: Via Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald, while the league has spoken to the players in question, the Red Sox themselves have yet to be questioned due to the fact that MLB is currently “right in the middle” of the investigation. Interestingly, Drellich reports that there was pre-existing evidence against the Sox that led to the league’s investigation, citing a source that references a “specific fact pattern” that was detected. The players themselves wouldn’t be punished even if the league is able to determine that the Red Sox utilized package agreements to circumvent the signing restrictions, per Drellich’s source. Furthermore, Drellich spoke to multiple sources that refuted allegations of threatening the players whilst questioning them, as the players themselves aren’t the target and do not stand to be punished.
Proving allegations of this nature is a highly difficult task, he continues, as the worth of each player is entirely subjective, and paper trails aren’t easily found. “It’s just a difficult thing to prove without cooperation,” one source told Drellich, which could serve to explain the reasoning behind the league’s decision to first question the players themselves.
Any punishment for the Sox would be the first of its kind, as to this point, only warnings have been issued when it comes to matters of international bonus pools. Drellich adds that any disciplinary measures that are taken by the league would carry over even if the international signing system is revamped in the upcoming wave of collective bargaining negotiations.
11:23am: Major League Baseball is investigating the Red Sox in relation to the team’s 2015-16 international signings, Ben Badler of Baseball America reports. In particular, the league is said to be looking into the club’s actions in Venezuela.
Boston entered the current July 2 signing period with a prohibition on any bonuses of over $300K, a penalty that stems from the club’s prior-year investments (including, most notably, Yoan Moncada) and will carry over for one more signing season. Nevertheless, Badler explains, the organization was able to land several highly-rated international talents for somewhat surprisingly low bonuses.
The investigation is looking into the tactics that the organization may have used in procuring certain signings, including players such as Albert Guaimaro, Simon Muzziotti, Antonio Pinero, and Eduardo Torrealba — all of whom landed bonuses of exactly $300K. These players reportedly shared trainers with several other Red Sox signees, leading to concern that they may have been signed to “package” deals in an effort to evade the signing restrictions.
Badler recently detailed that practice in a piece at BA, though it did not cite Boston in particular and dealt primarily with the Cuban market. Per his more recent report, though, only the Red Sox are being investigated by the league at this time.
Interestingly, as Badler notes, the use of package arrangements is widespread and long-established. Moreover, it doesn’t appear to violate any specific MLB rules and all of the contracts in question have previously been approved by the league. There are, of course, other possible incentives (beyond bonus pool evasion) for teams and trainers to arrange non-value-based payouts between certain players. In particular, trainers often have different “stakes” in different players’ eventual bonuses.
Several players reportedly acknowledged some kind of package arrangement in their signings, a source tells Badler. But it remains unclear precisely what the repercussions could be if that is indeed what the league’s investigation shows.
It seems fair to note, too, that there are in theory different ways in which packaging could occur, which might well be viewed differently. Traditional packaging that mutually benefits a trainer and team certainly raises ethical questions, but may not be of concern to the league at this juncture. Post-signing asset shifting to $300K signees from trainers or other players, on the other hand, could conceivably be more worrisome from the perspective of competitive advantage. As things stand, though, this is all hypothetical.
Questions are also raised as to MLB’s tactics in interviewing players, with sources telling Badler of various high-pressure techniques on the teenagers. A league source responded, saying that players are obligated to cooperate but that the investigators did not threaten them with suspensions to secure cooperation.
You’ll certainly want to read Badler’s entire piece for more details on the investigation and the rest of the story.
xyeclipse727 2
So…what exactly did the Sox do wrong?
Bbone34
I get that everyone wants the parity thing but if I was a kid moving to a different country, not speaking a word of the language, I would want to sign with my friends team. These kids should be able to go play wherever they want to play as long as the team is willing to pay them.
aff10
The difference, at least the way that I see it, is that the teams aren’t really paying the players in this case, they’re manipulating players’ salaries to circumvent the rules and appease street agents. If you’re advocating for removing the bonus pools altogether, that’s a different story, but this situation of packaging is kind of disgraceful, both on the teams’ perspective and on the agents’. The MLB needs to crack down on this, although if that’s done by intimidating 16 year-olds who probably don’t understand half of what they’re doing (I sure wouldn’t), then they need to reevaluate how they go about these investigations. Pretty bad situation all around that really ends up hurting kids who are just trying to play baseball- it’s unfortunate
natesp4
I believe part of the idea is that the signing team signs players to small bonuses who wouldn’t have been signed at all as part of the deal. And the higher profile players are willing to take only 300k in order to allow some other families and friends of theirs to get some money. Don’t quote me on that, but I believe I read something like that somewhere. In that case it’s not really hurting the kids, it’d actually be helping more kids.
It’s definitely worth a discussion though. I’m a Sox fan and when I heard of them getting some of these higher profile talents I thought it was a little slimy. I think there should be some more restrictions in place to avoid teams taking advantage of 16 year olds by promising that their friends can get some money too.
aff10
The way that I read it (and I’m not saying I’m right for sure, just my interpretation) was that the contract’s are officially for $300,000, but the money is then redistributed afterwards to the higher-profile players by the agents. Or, some agents have higher percentages in certain players, so they package two of their own clients to increase earnings on the player they have the higher stake in
User 4245925809
Got to read the BA article to take in the entire scope of the heat lamp interrogation these kids received and just imagine what went on.. 16yo kids, pressured with being suspended, at the least and without anyone else to guide them nearby to turn over bank records and anything else mlb wanted.
Where are the liberal lawyers for this? Not because these kids play for a team I like.. That doesn’t matter, this is just disgraceful the way any kid can get treated.
stl_cards16 2
Haha. Joking I hope?
chieftoto
I hope so too.
xyeclipse727 2
Wonder why the Sox are being singled out since other teams have done the same team…
natesp4
They’re the most obvious poster boy for this tactic. Blow past the limit to grab Espinoza and Moncada, have restrictions placed on them, and somehow mysteriously keep getting high profile talents on small bonuses.
I think the MLB doesn’t like teams taking advantage of teenagers in general, and the Red Sox are probably the easiest team right now to make an example of.
staypuft
I don’t think the MLB cares about the teenagers, as evidenced by their own interrogation of them. They care about maintaining a competitive balance and making sure that a few teams don’t take all the good international players.
natesp4
Fair point
Meow Meow
If anything, the investigation is probably just for the purpose of finding and closing loopholes. I can’t imagine any disciplinary action toward the Sox, given that all these deals were already approved and that “packaging” isn’t explicitly against the rules.
Mark 21
Manipulating the bonus pool is against MLB rules. You can look at it any way you want but fact is you cant manipulate the bonuses if that is what they did.
theo2016
Every team does package deals. Listen to kiley mcdaniels podcast on international signings. Package deals are hardly shady. You know it’s also against the rules to have a deal in place before being eligible to sign and yet 20 of the top 30 in this year’s class are already known to have deals in place. Brewers, Padres, braves, Phillies I believe are the most linked teams for this upcoming class.
stormie
Packaging may not be against the rules, but the implication is rather clear that there was likely more going on than just mere packaging; that there was an unwritten agreement between some of these parties to shift assets around after the bonuses were paid. That would clearly be manipulation of the rules if it was the case.
staypuft
So I’m guessing that they’re investigating whether or not the Red Sox were involved in shifting these assets around after the bonuses were paid.
seamaholic 2
The issue here, presumably, is the suspicion that the Sox evaded MLB’s penalty by vastly underpaying elite prospects (limiting them to the allowable $300k), and making up the difference by paying them in other ways under the table. That could be by paying the agents/trainers, who then at some later date forward that money to the player. Or it could be paying the family rather than the player, again possibly through the agent/trainer. Or it could be as simple as agreeing verbally to a very large contract that will be signed in a year or two.
This is not a complaint about packaging players with their buddies. MLB couldn’t care less about that. This is about circumventing the penalty they incurred by signing Moncada (among others).
baines03
If anything, the MLBPA should be investigating. It’s the players that are getting ripped off being packaged together like a crate of beans at Sam’s Club.
mikecws91
The MLBPA represents current major league players. They have no incentive to fight for minor leaguers or amateurs, so they don’t.
jd396
It’s not about fighting for these players or against the league and teams. MLBPA doesn’t represent them until they hit the majors, but you bet your tuchus they have an incentive to be involved in how these signings are handled.
User 4245925809
Exactly.. Which is why the MLBPA happily bargains 1st every right to amateurs during the CBA negotiations without hesitation! It’s why we have slotting, these useless IFA rules in the 1st place.. All brought to u by poor mouthing teams that refused to spend anything on the draft before the rules.
Each team could have afforded to spent 10m annually on the rule 4 draft pre-201, but leading up until then? 2 teams were fairly regularly. Those 2 teams? The Pirates and Boston. Poor mouthing teams, such as KC, TB,refused to spend until forced to by their own making.
stl_cards16 2
So if we’re going to make it a free market, why have a draft at all?
User 4245925809
YOU said no draft, not me. Posted not *1* word of and no draft situation that was the normal, mid 60’s and prior, when the NYY and Brooklyn/LAD Dodgers signed most every player they wanted.
I merely said most teams refused to spend in the draft, which is 100% factual Boston and Pittsburgh WOULD spend on draft picks and the Pirates not just on the pick no.1-10 they were always getting. teams like Houston, Oakland and TB were refusing to spend even then for the most part. Not KC everytime, they would splurge sometimes, but the “big” market teams.. Like the NYY and LAD were being cheap.
The MYTH that large market teams were buying up all the talent, was just that and the poor mouthing teams? Flat out were not spending, other than the Pirates.. You can look it up…
MafiaBass
How well do you follow the Pirates? I ask because they were known for taking lesser talent because they didn’t want to pay for elite talent.
jimttu
Lol
bkbkbk
Although apparently not illegal this is the most egregious offense a club can commit. They’re basically taking advantage of the most vulnerable actor in the whole MLB system. If it turns out to be true I hope Manfred finds a technicality and scorches the earth on them. This kind of behavior is disgusting.
It would be a fitting response as it seems they were able to perpetrate their scheme using a technicality to skirt something that clearly was not in the spirit of the rules.
BSPORT
I would be shocked if a team out of Boston ever gets caught cheating. Not Boston
marv152
say it ain’t so Tom, say it ain’t so…
Math&Baseball
Kraft bellicheck and brady have to practice somehow in the off season.
whereslou
So they are deflating salaries to get a better grip on these players to get then to come to a cold weather place. What is it with Boston.
madmanTX
Yep. Break up the Red Sox and give their players to other teams. Curse of the Bambino.
ChiSoxCity
Yet another Boston sports team with ethics issues. What’s up with you people?
User 4245925809
Hey.. I’m a fan of the Red Sox and was of the C’s back when Havlicek, Russell and few others played with them, but as far as the rest of NE goes? Just dig in deep with the Kennedy’s.. Like from Joe, the patriarch on. That clan is as dirty and unethical/criminal as any mafia boss ever was. Same with many other NE politicians..
Nothing squeaky clean there.. They love to throw bombs towards rest of country, while hiding a multitude of collaborators sins from within (collaborators like joe kennedy) and worse.
legit1213
Lol, you people. Unfortunately, winning takes precedence over ethics in BOS.
mbgutt
It’s a Boston thing. They just mis interpret the rules!
staypuft
Lol this coming from a fan of a team that threw a World Series. Aye that’s rich.
Not to mention Chigaco sports has guys like Patrick Kane and Andrew Shaw- ethical role models right there.
tycobb016
kaner didnt do anything wrong. lot of naive comments on the poor 16 year olds.
staypuft
What about removing the restrictions then. Big money teams are willing to spend money but are limited internationally b/c of this. There would be a more lucrative market for top international prospects and you won’t see any teams trying to circumvent salary rules.
theo2016
The cardinals basically got away with hacking, this seems like n9thing to that.
emac22
You guys are a bit naive or in denial if you think they are paying these kids a little less and giving the extra to some other players. This is human trafficking where the team is paying the kids a little money and giving their masters a lot of money for funneling the hottest ones to them.
MLB can clean it up or the department of justice can do it for them.
This is what happens when you have a whole town support and argue for what Tom Brady did. It becomes expected that you skirt the rules to win and that it’s ok because if you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying hard enough.
The problem is that now we’re talking about supporting agents ownership and selective breeding of kids to play baseball. You simply cannot have a large professional organization funding those operations.
I love the sox fan that wants to blame it on the kennedy’s. This is the attitude that leads to this kind of stuff. Yeah, I killed that guy because kennedy was a real jerk. What kind of idiot even goes there?
Connorsoxfan
I believe that guy is just mocking sox fans in general… Only a small portion of us are that stupid… Unfortunately they are also the vocal ones. 😉
User 4245925809
Yeah.. Mostly the media, politicians and biggest and loudest of the fans..
pocc
Because Tom Brady deflated a couple footballs the Red Sox are human traffickers in a slave trade and the whole city embraces and condones cheating now?
Boston haters stoop to a newer low as each year passes. Cant beat them so whine and spread libel about them on the internet..
emac22
Because the town supports his cheating. That’s why the red sox became human traffickers.
Not because he cheated.
pocc
Okay, youre either making a pathetic attempt to troll or extremely stupid with your generalizations.
BoldyMinnesota
The past couple years it’s been pretty easy to beat Boston lol
BSPORT
Break out the bloody sock. Papi never took steroids.
brandonmarin
I think the real problem in my interpretation is the street agents that are handling these international players. The most likely scenario seems to me the “agent” pulls the trigger on the deal with very little disregard for the player or their finances. Agents are agreeing to 300k deals as long as a team takes on several 300k deals for his other players.
notagain27
This will be more fuel for the fire in the upcoming CBA for a International Draft. Has to be done to eliminate some of the shady activity that is tough to police under difficult circumstances. You cannot blame these young players for trying to come to this country to pursue a dream for themselves and their families. The draft is necessary to bring some sort of order to a broken system.
billysbballz
Love how many Red Sox fans are on here saying all teams do this and it’s common and blah blah blah
Listen Red Sox went crazy signing Castillo and Moncada and just about everyone else blowing out the international market and then they go and sign the next group of highly touted prospects for 300,000? Give me a break, there’s obviously some real circumventing going on and if D tone else did it and got away well that’s theme the breaks. The red socks obviously got caught and I hope they pay huge fines!
highhop
Each instance where package deals are found, the Sox should have to forfeit whatever prospect they signed as a result. Since the point here isn’t to penalize the kid prospect, that prospect then goes back into the pool of players other clubs can bid on and sign. Additionally, if guilty, the Sox should receive a stiff punitive penalty of both dollars and dramatically inhibiting their ability to sign Int’l FA’s for a significant period of time, and during this time, all such signings must be scrutinized and reviewed by the league office. The Sox scouting and player development people do just fine without having to game the system like this. If they did the crime, they’ve gotta do the time. Fingers caught in the cookie jar? Make them forfeit these signings and dramatically impair/reduce their ability to sign any Int’l FA for a number of years.
whereslou
Man I was just poking fun but it seems a few people ran with it and a few got their panties in a bunch. I will say I believe Brady knew about the balls and lied but from what I have heard he got the suspension for breaking his phone. Which is dumb because the voicemails are still there. If he would have come clean this would all be done a 1 or 2 game suspension and its forgotten just like the PED guys in BB some said I made a mistake but others did what Brady did. Throw a fit and act like the deflator is a nickname for a guy on a diet. All in all it is a game lets play and enjoy watching them. Some take it too serious.
staypuft
Where did this asset-shifting “hypothetical” conspiracy theory come from? Is there any evidence that might suggest that this is the case?
That one hypothetical sunk this comment thread into a Gawker-like cesspool.