MARCH 8, 7:46pm: USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports that the Cubs and Arrieta had discussions early in the winter, but the team wasn’t interested in making an offer greater than five total years (Twitter link). It’s not 100 percent clear whether that means five years including the upcoming campaign or five years on top of Arrieta’s $10.7MM salary for the coming season, but if talks were early enough in the winter, they likely predated that arbitration agreement, so it seems reasonable to infer that the Cubs were interested in locking up the 2016-20 seasons (two arb years and three free-agent seasons). Arrieta, Nightengale adds, was seeking “at least” seven years, which lines up with Heyman’s initial report.
3:00pm: President of baseball operations Theo Epstein says that the team doesn’t feel any pressure to reach a deal in the near term, as Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reports in a series of tweets (1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6). He called the discussions thus far productive in “provid[ing] a foundation for something to get done down the road” and noted there’s “no hard deadline, but there are no active talks.”
10:14am: Arrieta confirmed to reporters that there have been talks. They “go back to last fall and winter,” sources tell Bruce Levine of 670thescore.com (via Twitter). The righty says that Chicago’s range of years didn’t line up with what he was looking for, as MLB.com’s Carrie Muskat reports (links to Twitter). “I want to stay here for six or seven years, and that’s it,” he said while emphasizing that he does hope to remain with the organization for the long haul.
Arrieta also suggested he’d “prefer to not have a lot of open dialogue about [an extension] during the season,” as Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune reports (video link). Talks haven’t been extensive, he said, in part because the front office “kind of know[s] the ballpark of where [a deal] needs to be.”
MARCH 7: The Cubs briefly explored a “mega extension” with ace righty Jake Arrieta, according to Jon Heyman of MLB Network (links to Twitter), but the sides wrapped up their discussions when it became apparent they would not see eye to eye on the length of a prospective new contract. The Scott Boras client was believed to be seeking a seven-year pact, per the report.
While that term of years was apparently a non-starter for Chicago, Heyman adds that the Cubs front office appears to be willing to re-open talks again in the future. Arrieta recently agreed to a $10.7MM deal to avoid arbitration for the coming season, and can be controlled for one additional campaign through the arb process before qualifying for free agency.
Arrieta turned 30 yesterday, so he doesn’t exactly have his youngest years left to sell. But he’s also turned into one of the game’s most dominant starters, as evidenced by his Cy Young award last year. Arrieta’s career revival in Chicago was already remarkable, but after that 2015 campaign he could be set up as a premium free agent after the 2017 season.
Last year, Arrieta spun 229 frames of 1.77 ERA pitching, racking up 9.3 K/9 against just 1.9 BB/9 with a 56.2% groundball rate. That remarkable run was good enough to edge out the Dodgers’ outstanding duo of Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke to take home honors as the National League’s best hurler. Though he wasn’t quite as effective in his later postseason outings, Arrieta also spun a complete game shutout to lead the Cubs to a wild card play-in victory.
As things stand, a hypothetical seven-year contract would take Arrieta through at least his age-36 season (assuming a deal would have covered the season to come). We’ve seen very few lengthy extensions of pitchers with at least four years of service time, with Cole Hamels (six years, $144MM) and Kershaw (seven years, $215MM) looking like the most reasonable comparables. Of course, both of those pitchers were both younger and had accumulated an additional year of service at the time they reached their deals.
More recent market developments would certainly also come into play. We’ve seen pitchers like Max Scherzer (seven years, $210MM), David Price (seven years, $217MM), and Greinke (six years, $206.5MM) top the $200MM threshold in recent seasons, and Arrieta will no doubt hope to land in a similar range if he can maintain anything close to his current level of performance. Greinke, in particular, represents a notable data point, as he’s slightly older now than Arrieta will be when he qualifies for free agency — showing that somewhat older arms can still land massive deals.
Of course, committing to that kind of deal at this point, with two years of control still remaining, is quite a different proposition for a club. If nothing else, Arrieta would surely be forced to give a discount for his arb years and distance from the open market.
bigpapi4ever
Theo is probably kicking himself over the Lester contract right about now. If not for that long term deal, which inevitably will turn into an albatross for the Cubs, they would have the money to sign Arrieta.
thecoffinnail
The Lester contract wasn’t necessarily an albatross. I believe he signed for $155m which compared to the contracts handed out to other TOR pitchers is pretty reasonable. Also, he has solid mechanics and is a lefty. He should age pretty well. The Cubs targeted position players in the draft and in trades. It was a given that they would have to sign free agent TOR arms. I am sure Theo is counting his blessings for having Arrieta fall into his lap in the first place.
jkim319
You are exactly right (Lester deal is NOT a bad contract at all). Cubs should wait for this year to see how repeatable arrieta can be..
We do have a problem with the lack of high caliber starting pitching in the system. Perhaps we can trade for a carrasco, Tyler Ross, odorizzi, or (?). We need Hendricks to mature (within < 2 years) into a solid #3/4 as …
Interestingly, with Lester being 32, he will start to decline in ~ 2 years (I think he had exactly the type of year we paid him for … A very strong year)… This means we 'will' need a #1 the year after arrieta becomes a free agent .. (Assuming he repeats 80% of what he did last year), why not spend the $ on Jake??
chesteraarthur
1. Tyler Ross doesn’t exist. I assume you mean Tyson Ross? He only has 2 years of control, so not the best solution, either. He’s also a 2 pitch starter with a huge reliance on his slider. Not exactly a great resume for extended durability.
2. Kyle Hendricks is already a solid 3/4 pitcher. He had a better 2015 than Odorizzi. So I’m not sure how Odorizzi counts as high caliber starting pitching, but Hendricks isn’t even a 3/4.
petrie000
Odorizzi has velocity and therefore upside… and Kyle Hendricks doesn’t.
a bit of an over-simplification, i know… but yeah, Hendricks’ arsenal doesn’t leave him a lot of room for error on any given night and i think one of the prime reasons his statline from last year is so good is because Maddon had him on a short leash and pulled him as soon as the hitters looked like they’d caught up to him.
doesn’t mean he can’t be a good back end guy for years to come, just means he’s got very limited upside.
Voice of Reason
27th best fWAR in all of baseball last year. For a 5th starter he doesn’t need any upside from that number. Just maintain it as a #5 and the Cubs will be more than happy.
Lance
Lester had the kind of year you paid him for? He had a losing record for a team that won 97 games? That’s worth $20 million?
chesteraarthur
This is a joke, right?
thebare
The professor is just going to be great are 4/5 would be a 3/4 on must teams and the ceiling gets higher for 3-5 years to go
Priggs89
I’m pretty sure $$$ isn’t the issue; it’s the length of a deal for a 30 year old pitcher. They pretty much print money at Wrigley.
petrie000
the article said the issue was length, not money
given what even the mediocre pitchers are making these days, i’m pretty sure they don’t, in fact, regret the Lester deal
chesteraarthur
Yeah, that contract really hindered them when they signed Heyward, Zobrist, Lackey, and Fowler. You’re not totally clueless or anything…
djtommyaces
Bigpapi makes some ridiculous comment on these boards. Why would Theo be kicking himself? The Cubs are loaded with cash and are willing to spend. Money has nothing to do with the deal
bykoric
Here’s something that’s been bugging me, and Arrieta & the Cubs are an excellent example: wouldn’t it make more financial/player value sense for the Cubs to just let him throw as he wants then then let Arrieta walk without worry? Here’s what I figure:
(1) Assume they will not sign him due to age, so they have him for 2 more years, he’s not going to be their problem after 2017.
(2) Because he’s not going to be their problem, they might as well try to squeeze every little bit of value out of him over the next 2 years, so they won’t monitor innings or “save” him. If he blows his arm out, he blows it out; if not, then he’s more likely to in the next few years and he won’t be an albatross.
And I should also point out, this is NOT a way I would do business as a GM. Just a thought in today’s bean-counter MLB world. And it basically looks at all the players as tradable commodities-they’re only as good to you as they’re able to produce. Once you get all you want out of them, they’re not your problem.
One Fan
That makes little sense. Suppose he “throws like he wants” then is burned out for the playoffs? That hurts the team. Suppose he does not blow his arm out and you want to resign him and do. Then a year or so into the agreement it blows out partly due to the abuse you want to allow? The main point is that it does not help the team for the two years left of control to not pace him with the playoffs in mind. The idea is to win as I am sure you agree.
dorfmac
I have wanted to see the O’s do this with Weiters the whole time. He was never going to sign long-term, and with the short shelf life of catchers, I’d play him 150 games a season and then send him on his way.
jb226
If he blows his arm out, the Cubs chances of making a deep playoff run approach zero. (Their lineup might be strong enough to get them in the show, but I don’t know Lester-Lackey-Hammels gets it done).
In other words, there are considerations beyond just what happens after your two years of control. Ethical issues aside, we aren’t able to predict injuries well enough to try to play that game.
sigurd 2
Short answer: yes, they should let him walk if he will only accept a 7 year deal.
The Cubs are big enough and rich enough to trade for / buy the next big thing in FA after they have extracted maximum value from Arrieta.
The amount of big money contracts that actually work out as a net positive for a team are very low.
Philliesfan4life
I’m pretty sure the cubs can afford to give Arrieta an extension
Voice of Reason
Sure they can afford to extend him, but why do it?
Take the great value through the end of next year then evaluate the rotation at that time.
It would be a horrible business decision to rip up that contract right now.
Gogerty
Granted I know there is a huge age difference and that will be the first argument. But, Cubs let a Cy Young winner walk in the early 90’s and he went on to win a couple more the following years. Just food for thought, yes they have the finances for any FA, but that does not matter when the best pitcher (hindsight only) is the one you let walk.
jb226
Greg Maddux was also younger when he hit free agency than Jake Arrieta is NOW, much less the age he’ll be when HE hits free agency — and he got five years.
Seven years for Arrieta is bad business.
hozie007
If you look at Arrietta’s stats, doesn’t it seem odd that he went from a bloated 4.66, 5.05 and 6.20 ERA in his first three seasons then 4.78, 2.53, and 1..77 in his last three …. what could possibly be attributable to such changes? Baseball is a game of stats and those numbers don’t lie…..they tell a story. He won’t last another 3 years.
mdvorak
Different environment? Samardzija had his best season under Bosio as well. Hammel had a good 1st half last season. Who the pitching coach is makes a bigger difference than I think people want to admit. You can’t quantify it the same as ERA, but if you’re solely looking at ERA and Wins, you will never see the complete picture either.
hozie007
Yep, agreed, some pitching coaches can help guys improve their mechanics, suggest a better pitch sequence .and approach to certain kinds of hitters and situations…and undoubtedly Arrieta’s WHIP dropped off the radar…..hall of fame numbers last year. But if you look at other pitchers like Samardjia, Kershaw, Price, Zimmermann, Scherzer, Lester, etc……there is consistency from year to year. When I see roller coaster numbers from pitchers or hitters from yr to yr, my suspicions are raised about “why” and how long can they perform at that level.
ImAlwaysRight
Samardizja is the least consistent pitcher in baseball Lmao. A 4.90 ERA last year, had literally 1 good season
Dock_Elvis
Put up that 4.90 under Don Cooper, as well….who’s highly regarded as pitcher rebuild expert.
Samardzijia was expected to make a jump to a true #1, and it’s just never happened. He’s a 2 possibly…or a 3 on a contender. Pretty much where he slots in SF.
amishthunderak
And the Cubs let shark walk when people were screaming to resign him. Fans have emotion, GM’s can’t.
Dock_Elvis
Walk? Cubs traded him for Addison Russell..they made out like bandits…even though I’ll say Oakland got some good innings from Shark. A little surprised he didn’t pitch better with the Sox being it was so close to home and Don Cooper usually gets alot out of guys.
raiders
Huh?
chesteraarthur
Changed his mechanics to provide a more stable and repeatable delivery and shifted his position on the pitching rubber. He’s talked about this numerous times.
mb05
Guy has a Cy Young season and all of a sudden he’s a bona fide ace? Pump the brakes, let’s see what this guy does as a follow up. His career numbers aren’t exactly pretty.
Priggs89
He was pretty impressive the year before his Cy Young too…
ilikebaseball 2
Yeah his 2.26 era with the cubs is hideous.
SupremeZeus
Sensible inquiry by the Cubs, although I doubt they have any intention of extending Arrieta before the conclusion of this season at the earliest. Specifically they will want to monitor his arm health this season and see if he can maintain production after a massive workload upgrade last season. Last year was the first time in 6 MLB seasons Arrieta ever pitched at least 200 innings, couple that with his age and this is a season Arrieta may see a cumulative overuse injury (according to my proprietary analysis). i suspect the Cubs are mindful of this as well and you will see them pull him from games earlier.
bbatardo
Honestly the Cubs shouldn’t try to sign him long term. Take this year and next year of him in his prime at a reasonable price and then decide.
Lance
agreed. there’s no rush. if he gives the cubs another great season—then he will have proven he’s an elite pitcher worthy of Grienke-Price-Kershaw money. If not….the Cubs will have gotten a bargain year.
bosox90
Yeah, it doesn’t really seem to make sense for the Cubs to talk extension with Arrieta right now. Usually the positive to getting an extension done further away from free agency is getting higher value in the deal (typically with younger players). It just wouldn’t be wise to talk extension when you have two years of control in hand and Arrieta is coming off what could very well be the best year of career.
mb05
He just had a Cy Young season, but his career numbers aren’t impressive. No need to pay him like a bona fide ace when he hasn’t proved he is one yet. I’m not even a Cubs fan and it’s obvious to me to let it ride for now.
Flipjunior89
6 years/120 mil should do it 7/140
I honestly don’t think he’s worth more than 20 mil unless the cy young season wasn’t a fluke
homer 2
They have Arrietta for two more years through his age 32 season. Any contract signed is for age 33 and up. The new younger baseball era is in and without peds players are aging faster. Yes he may have another good year or so after age 32 but is he worth paying for 5 years beyond his best performances? No pitcher with a 7 years contract in the new billionaire era has worked out (yet).. As a matter of fact few batting 7 plus year contracts have worked out either. Figure teams might catch on to that at some point.
crazymountain
If I was Theo, I would do what Jake wants, i.e. keep holding the talks throughout the season and IF his first half of the season looks like last season, give him a front loaded extension for the seven years. This would be a solution that would make the back end “older” years less risky for the team and meet the long term requirement that Jake wants. Jake has made changes since he joined the Cubs and his last two years have been good ones. And there’s always the possibility of options within the contract dependent on performance. I don’t see this as a problem for either side, as Jake wants to stay and Theo wants Jake to stay, provided his performance doesn’t fall off the table or Jake stays major injury free.
chesteraarthur
He’s already 30. If he doesn’t want to sign for what the front office is offering, then peace and thanks for (at least) 2 good years.
TINSTAAPP, but the cubs minor leagues actually have some pitching talent that should be big league ready in 2 years. There is no need to give a 32 year old pitcher 7 more years (or 5 if his 7 year extension was including these two years he has left in arb, I couldn’t tell from the article).
Dock_Elvis
If I were Arrieta, I’d be trying to work a deal out for whatever it took to extend my time on the northside. He has a chance to be in a rotation playing for a series ring most likely for the remainder of his viable career. If he walks and some team overlays he could ride out the back end of his career with money but no real chance of postseason success.
Actually, this season will say a lot about direction…the Cubs actually somehow pull of a series at Wrigley…and there’s a seismic shift in the team approach. Even now they can get who they want. Just have to hope for cubs fan site sake that Epstein learned a lesson in Boston.
PLAYTOWIN
Cubs should see how he does the next 2 years. Boras will not give any discount. The high bidder will get him and at his age it will not be a pretty ending for the team that signs him.
Z-A 2
Should have pitched better when you were younger Jake…. Theo should just ride out his arbitration. Why sign the guy for 20 M a year for his age 32+ seasons? Studs that broke down or became very average before 35: Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, CC Sabathia, Matt Cain, Barry Zito, Johan Santana, Justin Verlander. All very recent. They seem to find diamonds in the ruff, just go with that, and draft well.
Dock_Elvis
I’d agree on all you said, but I’d add that it might be a little too early to judge Verlander and Cain. Verlander put together a good first half and Cain is still only 31. Lots of time left for two pitchers that have displayed elite talent. Those other pitchers we have complete track records on.
Dock_Elvis
Meant to say second half for verlander