FEB. 4: The Dodgers would like to move Ethier, and the Sox do indeed want an upgrade in the outfield, tweets Bob Nightengale of USA Today, but there’s no sign of a match between the two sides at this time, he hears.
FEB. 3:Â Chicago has a “strong preference” to add a lefty bat, Rogers tweets. That’s one issue that the team has with a possible signing of Fowler, he notes, since the switch-hitting veteran is better from the right side.
FEB. 2:Â The White Sox have explored the possibility of a trade for Dodgers outfielder Andre Ethier, according to a pair of reports from MLB.com’s Phil Rogers (Twitter link) and Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago/670thescore.com.
The Sox are known to be open to outfield help, having been connected to each of Yoenis Cespedes, Dexter Fowler and Alex Gordon, to varying degrees, over the past five to six weeks. Chicago currently projects to have an outfield of Melky Cabrera, Adam Eaton and Avisail Garcia, but the latter of that trio has yet to produce much at the Major League level. Eaton, of course, is one of the team’s best players and coming off a strong overall season, and while Cabrera stumbled out of the blocks in the first season of a three-year, $42MM contract, he rebounded to bat .288/.330/.449 with 11 home runs in the season’s final four months (109 games, 468 plate appearances).
Ethier could serve as a platoon partner for the right-handed-hitting Garcia, who has a career .284/.341/.424 batting line against left-handed pitching. He could also, as Levine notes, share some time between right field and DH in the event that Garcia and/or LaRoche enjoy a better season with the bat in 2016 than the duo did in 2015. Notably, the White Sox lack a bat that could step in and take reasonably contribute at designated hitter in place of LaRoche, should his problems persist. Mike Olt has huge power but is a career .168 hitter with a 37 percent strikeout rate, and the right-handed hitting Jerry Sands would be in strict need of a platoon partner. (That could be LaRoche himself, although the veteran struggled quite a bit even against right-handed pitching last year.)
From the Dodgers’ perspective, they can not only afford to part with Ethier but would in many ways be thinning out a currently crowded outfield mix. Los Angeles has Joc Pederson, Yasiel Puig, Carl Crawford, Scott Van Slyke, Trayce Thompson and Enrique Hernandez all serving as outfield alternatives on the 40-man roster (though Hernandez, of course, is more of an infielder).
Ethier has long been viewed as an albatross contract, and while the remaining two years and $38MM on his deal are a roadblock in any potential trade talks, there’s no doubt that he did restore some of his value last year when he followed up a .253/.325/.385 performance vs. righties in 2014 with an outstanding .306/.383/.517 line in 2015. Ethier is still in clear need of a platoon partner wherever he goes — he’s received just 99 plate appearances versus lefties over the past two seasons combined — but that type of production is impressive, especially considering his pitcher-friendly home park.
The Dodgers could either offer to eat some of the remaining money on Ethier’s deal — Levine estimates that absorbing half of the sum would get the two teams on the same page — or take on a bad contract from the Sox in exchange. LaRoche, for instance, is owed $13MM this season, so his inclusion in a trade would effectively reduce the White Sox’ financial commitment to a more palatable $25MM over two seasons. Left-hander John Danks is owed $14.25MM and would make sense to some extent in this capacity, though his ability to eat innings as the Sox’ fifth starter carries some value, and the team lacks a clear alternative in the rotation, at least early in the year. Even setting the money aside for a moment, the Sox and Dodgers would also have to agree to additional compensation, as L.A. probably doesn’t view Ethier as a pure salary dump (especially not if they’re offering financial relief in some regard). While Ethier might not command one of the Sox’ top-tier prospects, some form of young talent would have to head back in the direction of the Dodgers for the two teams to line up on a trade.
There’s incentive for the two sides to get something done prior to the season, though, because as Levine notes, Ethier will gain 10-and-5 rights in mid-April, thus giving him the power to veto any potential trade that’s put on the table. The Sox, of course, still have alternative options in the form of other trade possibilities or free agents such as Fowler and Austin Jackson.
Let’s get this deal done!
Get what done they have been tied to everyone and done nothing!
Nothing? Todd Frazier? Brett Lawrie? Dioner Navarro? Alex Avila?
Those moves do not exist in a vacuum. They are only good moves in the context of an offseason that puts them in position to win because those players are only around for the short term. Currently, the White Sox are in line to finish in last place as constructed. They have a world of work to do to get to contention, and there no longer exists an available “big answer” player to put them over the top. Now, they need several upgrades targeting 3 below replacement level regulars, 5 pitching spots that include two below replacement starting pitchers, and tons of organizational depth moves as they have very little.
The White Sox, as constructed, are more likely to set the major league record for worst season ever than they are to make the playoffs. So yeah….they’ve really just done nothing.
“Currently, the White Sox are in line to finish in last place as constructed.”
“The White Sox, as constructed, are more likely to set the major league record for worst season ever than they are to make the playoffs.”
Really? Only according to you. I have yet to see a single projection for the 2016 season that would agree with your predictions.
What team in the Central are they better than? The Twins are really good with young players improving. The Royals just won the World Series. The Indians have a full rotation and then some of ace quality pitchers. The Tigers – the only other bad team the Central had last year – vastly improved their chances by picking up two of the best free agents on the market.
The White Sox improved at 3B and improved on one side of the ball at two other positions while simultaneously getting worse on the other side at those positions. On top of that, they lost a starter that made a quality start in half of his outings last year while pitching 200+ innings without actually replacing him (or simply doing so with a non-talent).
I didn’t make my statement to mean the White Sox would have the worst record in history. But with the terrible collection of talent and the really great talent on the rest of the central squads, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to see them in the playoffs this year without several moves accompanied by some legitimate bad luck on the part of every other team in that division. They are so far behind having this conversation is ludicrous.
Also, of course no one else is saying that. Nobody is picking divisions yet. There’s a media cycle, and the picks come in before the year starts.
ZIPS has the current White Sox roster at 38 WAR combined from 25 positions. That’s the lowest of any team. Which isn’t surprising, because it’s right around where they were last year too, when they were amongst the worst teams in the league.
Every site that uses WAR as it’s basis for predicting the 2016 season currently has the White Sox winning between 81-84 games as I write. Most have the White Sox bunched in with the Royals and Tigers and within striking distance of the Indians. They all have them ahead of the Twins at this point.
Keep in mind that these projections are updated in accordance with the daily moves each team makes. The White Sox are the one team in the division most likely to still make a significant move before spring training begins. They are reported to be among the front runners to land Dexter Fowler and Ian Desmond, each of whom could add enough WAR in replacing current starters Avisail Garcia and Tyler Saladino, to make the White Sox the favorites in the division. Signing both or inking one with another significant trade would elevate the team to the top of the division in pre-season forecasts based on sabermetrics.
I’d be surprised if Sox make a significant move especially if it adds to pay roll. They’re already at $120 MM in salary; same as last year.
Since the AL Central is a crapshoot, I think they’ll take their chances and add (or subtract) later in the year.
I’m not seeing an 80+ projection for the White Sox.
What basis do you have for having the White Sox most likely to improve a spot? When was their last major league move? The Fraizer trade? That was months ago. Plenty came off the board that could have helped and nothing but leftovers that combined don’t form a winning club remain. The White Sox aren’t even trying to improve, they’re operating under the premise that moves are only made if they fall into their lap. Nothing but scraps left, I wouldn’t count on a move.
According to fangraphs the Central is evenly matched. The Indians are presently projected first but the Sox, Tigers and Royals are rated about the same., The Twins are behind right now because of their poor starting rotation. Now, everybody projected the Royals to be bad last year so I take their evaluation of KC with a grain of salt.
If the Sox improve in right and at short, I think they move to the favorites with Cleveland. I think their starting pitching is thin. Any time lost by the top three would spell trouble for them. If I were Hahn, I’d get Gallardo and Eithier. But that’s just me.
Well fangraphs is off-base and making assessments not in line with projections then. Like I said, the White Sox have the lowest expected zips projection as a group in baseball, and it’s not like it’s that far off from reality since they finished dead last last year as well. They’ve improved their club, but only marginally and less so that pretty much every other team in the league.
It’s ironic that you mentioned ZIPS in a previous comment reply because as of February 2 they have the White Sox’s mean projected win total at 83 in 2016. Fangraphs had the White Sox at 81 wins a couple of weeks ago. I have seen others but can’t recall them from memory as I post.
ZiPS Projected Standings, AL Central (2/2/16)
TEAM W L GB DIVISION% PLAYOFF%
Kansas City Royals 84 78 — 29 46
Detroit Tigers 84 78 — 25 42
Chicago White Sox 83 79 1 23 39
Cleveland Indians 83 79 1 20 37
Minnesota Twins 76 86 8 3 7
Sorry, the copy and paste scrambled, but you still ought to be able to decipher it.
your high af Dude
the al central as of right now is a toss up with eaton Frazier and Abreu at the top with solid line up behind and a starting core of sale Quintana and Rodon with Jones and Robertson to back them up the divison is truly a toss up
ANOTHER 30 SOMETHING PLAYER THAT WILL COME FROM THE NL SOX JUST DONT LEARN !!
At this point there’s nothing left.
Anybody but Avi
Why? Why, why, why, why??????
I thought we were done with 34+ year old National League platoon hitters getting 8 figures?
Rick – NO!
NO!
Stop screwing this team up. Get Jackson, save what scraps we have in the farm, preserve the picks, and sign Latos.
What in the hell are you doing????
I can’t say I’m overjoyed with the prospect of trading for Andre Ethier when other outfield alternatives might be more beneficial, including signing Dexter Fowler to a reasonable short term free agent contract or pursuing deals for more impacting players such as Carlos Gonzalez, Charlie Blackmon, Yasiel Puig, Ryan Braun or Jorge Soler. But I would take Ethier in a heartbeat over your suggestion of FA’s Austin Jackson and Matt Latos.
What in the hell were you thinking????
If the Sox give up their comp pick for a FA then why did they keep Samardzjia and not trade him when he actually had some value?
Nothing like using “hindsight” to make a point. As you might recall, the White Sox elected not to trade Jeff Samardzija at the July 31st trade deadline because they were a hot team at the time, fueled in part by a strong run of excellent starts by “Shark” himself. The team viewed itself as a contender for a wild card spot and didn’t want to do a “white-flag” trade at the deadline. They also held out some measure of hope that they might re-sign impending FA Samardzija following the season, who grew up as a White Sox fan in nearby Valparaiso, Indiana, a town he still calls home.
The problem in your scenario is that it doesn’t field a competitive team. Honestly, Ethier is a pipe dream that probably won’t work either, but he could come to Chicago and hit .280+ and 30 bombs.
Really, they should have signed Upton or Cespedes. If they weren’t willing to give them 6 years in a deal, they should have traded Sale and Abreu already. Now we’ll have mostly likely 30 wins or less at the all start break and looking to trade them then – hopefully they won’t be hurt or have lowered their values.
The Sox must win a lot if they want fans to show up, and trading their Ace and best hitter is not going to do that. Why? Because all they are likely getting back are prospects (not guaranteed to do anything in the majors) and will likely be god awful for at least a few seasons. The Sox cannot afford to tank for a few reasons. Namely, further reducing fan turnout, and also lack of a good instructional coaching base in their minor league systems means that tanking is not an option (ala Cubs). Just because the Cubs tanked for a few seasons and got lucky with their picks (so far) everyone apparently thinks it is the way to go. I guess folks have forgotten how long it took the the Orioles, Tigers, KC, and the Pirates (to name a few) to ‘rebuild’ with their systems before getting good again.
Absolutely.
Keep in mind that you are replying to a commenter who is of the singular opinion that the White Sox as presently constructed are a last place club and more likely to finish with the worst record in MLB history than simply make the playoffs in 2016. He goes on to opine about their seemingly beneficial trades and FA signings earlier this off-season: “Those moves do not exist in a vacuum”.
At face value that is an accurate statement because nothing in this world exists in a vaccuum. What he fails to account for is that the White Sox have an 80 year old owner who by all accounts is ready to sell the team within the short term and just retain the Bulls for his son, Michael.
Imo, this scenario is the driving force that has resulted in the team’s re-tool or mini-rebuild at the 2013 summer trade deadline rather than a full fledged undertaking similar to what the Cubs underwent following Tom Rickett’s hiring of Theo Epstein. It has also driven the front office to add shorter term veteran assets the past two off-seasons to complement the long term team-friendly deals given to their younger core assets Chris Sale, Jose Abreu, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton. Some White Sox fans view the organizations moves as being somewhat “schizophrenic” at times but if you consider it in the context of their ownership situation it begins to make more sense. Jerry Reinsdorf is not only looking to add one more trophy to to his legacy of Chicago’s most successful sports owner not named George Halas, he is also trying to add value to a ball club that will likely be sold within the next five years.
If what you said was accurate, the White Sox would have been in on and signed a couple of the best free agents this offseason. But Jason Heyward and David Price found other homes.
Jerry Reinsdorf isn’t interested in improving the White Sox for a sale. If he was, he’d know that he has to spend money to do that. He’s shown no interest in doing that, and instead clings to a budget on the bottom half of the league and contract stipulations matched only by the Pirates and the Athletics.
Reinsdorf may sale in a few years. But he’s operated just like he always does. The Sox core isn’t any better than the other central teams, who are all loaded. The difference is the players around the core are better, in larger quantities, and are mostly younger on every other team in the central. Not spending what’s necessary to make that up only exacerbates the problem. Looking at a 65-70 win season most likely.
Nobody is going to Sox games if they have those players and win less than 80 games either. Especially with the Cubs being the best team in baseball.
Might as well save the money and rebuild instead of doing just as poorly on the field and in the stands while getting nothing for those assets.
Got lucky with their picks?
Got lucky with a few picks?
65-70 wins. I wish I knew you so I could bet. Easy money.
They’ve been hovering there the last three seasons. You’re going to see a jump now, with two below average rotation spots and three lineup members at SS, DH, and RF all expected to give automatic outs? RIGHT….
This is a last place team that shifted pieces around. Got better at 3B, got worse at SS, traded defense for offense up the middle (C, 2B), and is worse in the pitching department. This team will only improve with a lot of luck. Odds are they are worse than last year, and those odds extend when you consider how much the division improved.
65-70 wins.
The White Sox still have a budget and cannot spend wildly beyond their means. That being said, GM Rick Hahn did confirm at last weekend SoxFest that the team was in on Alex Gordon, Justin Upton and Yoenis Cespedes right up until they signed. He also denied reports stating that the White Sox were limiting their offers to a maximum of 3 years.
At the end of the day, each of those free agents chose other clubs because they were their preferred destinations, not the White Sox. This was particularly true with Gordon and Cespedes who both desired to return to their former teams, even at a discount.
quality not quantity bud
This disconnect is exactly what I’m talking about.
It doesn’t matter that the White Sox have a budget. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t limit the deal to 3 years.
They are not in a position to improve on a 70 win squad without outspending others. That means well beyond their $120 million, bottom fourth budget. That means well beyond the $100 million the Nationals offered Cespedes. If the White Sox wanted to compete, they wouldn’t hold the budget so low. They wouldn’t stop at 5 years. If the White Sox wanted to win this year, Cespedes would be a White Sox on a 6 year, $120+ million dollar deal. And if they weren’t willing to do that, they had absolutely no chance at improving the club beyond that 70 win area. So then…what the hell are they doing?
Probably counting on fans like you buying in to another bargain basement, bottom of the league team for six months. Because they aren’t willing to spend to win and aren’t willing to take a short term loss on a rebuild either.
The White Sox aren’t a baseball team anymore. They’re a business, and their business isn’t winning. It’s collecting money from a gullible fanbase.
There is NO reason to look at Ethier. NONE. He’s not what we need. We need DEFENSE in the OF. We need that person to be an every day player. We need to keep the sparce talent we have, and PRESERVE 3 PICKS IN THE TOP 50 to build are awful farm.
Any SOX fan knows all this?
Ethier is about the WORST fit you can possibly think of. There’s NO good reason. Not even for Danks or LaRoche.
In fact, I’d like to see what Danks will do.
I hate this team most of the time, and I feel like I’m their biggest fan.
Really? No reason? NONE? Are we feeling a bit dramatic tonight?
Because I’m having a hard time believing that the sox couldn’t use someone in RF who had 41 xbh’s in 395 AB’s last yr?
Do you really mean that the sox couldn’t use someone who put up a .294/.366/486 stat line on the year for an .852 OPS(or if you prefer a more easily comparable stat…he had 136 OPS+)?
Because you saying that the sox couldn’t use a 2.9 war(fangraphs) RF to use to replace asi Garcia(-1.4) seems like the real “WORST fit” to me.
Also…In regards to the defense you speak of…for the record I’d like to point out that Ethier was a +2 in def runs saved last year.
just figured I’d throw some numbers your way to chew on to see if maybe you weren’t completely aware of the type of year that he’s coming off of.
Do with them what you will.
I’ll leave the rest up to you in regards to whether the money and prospect cost would make make sense to ur sox but I will throw out there that all those numbers I pointed out certainly hold value to the Dodgers(even if its only in 395 AB’s). I’ll also point out that money matters less to the Dodgers than most so why would they want to “dump” his 136 OPS+/2.9 WAR type of production? The answer is they wouldn’t. They’re certainly willing to move him but it will absolutely not be done to “dump” him or his contract.
Actually, it makes a lot of sense if they can get rid of LaRoche. It’s not like the money owed to Ethier next year will hinder them from making any moves going forward since Danks will also come off the books, and there probably won’t be anybody of importance available on next years FA class anyways.
Why would the Dodgers take LaRoche?
Saves them $$ since he only has 1 year left, and it’d help bring back a better prospect.
He’s also one of their best OF’s. Eithier is not a salary dump. LaRoche has no use to the Dodgers on the field. Nor does Danks. Try again.
He’s overpaid though.
He’s not a useless player, but he’s making about $10 million a year more than he’s worth. They’ll get a good prospect for Etheir, but only if they take salary back (or send money). Otherwise Etheir is actually a negative value player. Productive or not, he’s vastly overpaid.
The Dodgers don’t need a good reason to make a trade, only other teams do. Will we ever learn?
Do you really think he’s getting 10 million more per year than he’s worth?
He was worth a 2.9 WAR last year according to fangraphs. I’ll let you argue about what each 1.0 of war should be worth $ wise but I’ll just say that if we’re using the numbers the experts use then ur comment is way off.
He is probably 5-8 mil overpaid. Remember he was very strictly platooned last year, combined with him entering the decline phase of his career, you dont pay for last years production but what you expect moving forward.
Last year. But not the year before. And he’s among the worst defenders at his position.
He’s a platoon DH. Even the best of those don’t make $10 million/year.
And he would be platooned with Garcia on the Sox. What’s Garcia making? Would the WAR and salary of the two of them be fair over an entire year?
That’s not good logic, because you lose a roster spot for every platoon spot you fill. Those players need to be paid less combined than an everyday player how only takes one roster spot.
In general, most platoons cost less than $10 million combined.
Why would the Dodgers want LaRoche?
Etheir > that Avisail, both on offense and defense.
This is going to be interesting. is there a trade of bad contracts or a blockbuster of bad contracts. Does this even happen? You have to figure no big prospects would be involved. But should be interesting to see especially since sadly Cotton and Lee (not sadly at all) seem like roadkill. You could figure that the Dodgers have a RHP in the uppers that has nowhere to go and as much as depth is heralded they’d be trading for a source of strength. Contracts could be shipped to allow the white soxs to sign a guy like Jackson. I like Ethier, but he doesn’t fit now. The outfield has to be thinned in my opinion.
Thin the OF? Ok trade SVS or Trayce or Kike to Halos haha
Ethier was the most productive outfielder the Dodgers had last year, by a lot. They can’t afford to trade him without having tremendous confidence in comebacks for both Puig and Pederson. That’s a big risk to take when it’s hardly necessary. But I notice this article is heavily biased towards what the White Sox could get out of such a trade, and not at all about how the Dodgers could improve by making one.
I don’t see it happening unless it’s a three team trade. I’m not advocating a trade simply for a salary dump. I was trying to point out that it seems the white soxs could get better by just signing Fowler or Jackson. The OF needs to be thinned, with both Ethier and CC you cant keep everyone happy. There is no way to move CC. The front office values flexibility. With that I can see a situation in which Ethier is moved before he has veto power. Seeing bad contracts move would be one way as we see there is no problem eating the money and getting creative.
If it’s Pop and a decent OF for a good price that the White Sox want, they should probably look at Marlon Byrd. Yes he’s 37 yrs old, but he’ll come almost as cheap as Jackson, with considerable more pop at the plate. The Guy has averaged 24 HR’s over the last 3 years (hit 23 in 136 games in ’15)……and he’ll probably sign a 1 year deal for $5-6 mil….no draft pick attached……no loss of prospects. He can hold his own in the OF.
Cespedes will opt-out next winter, and you can chase him again.
Just a thought…….
Agree wholeheartedly. Ethier fits well as the lefty side of a strong LF platoon (with Van Slyke and/or Kike) that could very well outperform Pederson and Puig in the Dodger OF. I can see trading Crawford, but they’d likely have to send money and a prospect to someone to move him. ,
Well, what’s not interesting… Either. For the same reasons Cargo isn’t interesting. Both teams want to be rid of $18MM AAV+ players, but the Sox aren’t your match. They don’t sign their own hand-picked people for more than $12M, so unless Eithier comes with $20M.. I don’t see the point.
I don’t get to be Rick Hahn though, either.
If I were – I’d sign Jackson. Get a flyer RHP like Lincecum or Latos and put Coop to work.
Let Saladino handle SS – Call it an offseason.
But GET JACKSON or forget the rest of it.
IF AVI IS IN RF ON OPENING DAY – WE’RE DEAD.
If the Rockies really wanted to be rid of CarGo’s salary (which is right around, if not less than, what he would get on the open market BTW), they would have already traded him several times over. Just because someone is being discussed in trades, does not mean they are being dumped.
Ok, fine. Trade him, then.
I can pretty much guarantee you it won’t be to the White Sox unless you pack him with a suitcase full of 1/2 his salary the next 2 years.
We have enough platoon guys with questionable defense.
I don’t want to trade him to anyone, but if I did it definitely wouldn’t be to the little brother team of a city, but thanks anyway.
CarGo is also far from having questionable defense, he does have 3 Gold Gloves after all. I know that GGs are not the be all and end all, but neither are dWAR numbers. Those fail to take into account the size of an outfield. Coors has one of if not the largest outfields in the majors which means the outfielders have more are to cover than other parks. Which also explains why no Rockies outfielder, including 7 time Gold Glover Larry Walker, had even a mediocre dWAR while in Coors.
But you are going to believe whatever you want, so there really is no point in continuing. Have a nice day.
Yeah, you’re right. There’s no chance you’re going to convince me Cargo plays even average defense, has trustworthy health, can hit above Mendoza against LHP, and is worth $38M for the next 2 yrs.
Good day to you too, sir.
No. Just no. Walker won gold gloves cuz of his bat, just like jeter. He has lost range from injuries and his arm is plus not plus plus or elite. He no longer offers baserunning value. Hes a good bat that struggles against lefties, he is the strong side of a platoon as in a given season teams face maybe 40 lefty starters. He definitely wouldnt get more on the open market but his contract isnt bad so he still has value as a power bat. He just isnt worth a top prospect. Basically they have to eat some money for a top 75 prospect.
No one was actually suggesting that they acquire Larry Walker. Since he is retired, I’m sure they could sign him to a minor league deal should he decide to try for a comeback. Seriously though, if you consider signing Austin Jackson to be an improvement, you are setting your sights too low. Better to hope Avila shows some of his upside, because AJ has no upside.
Jackson is useless to them, his value is that hes good in center, its the dodgers, they always kick money in. If the sox are serious about building a perrenial contender they should include robertson in the deal so they can come away with a de leon, who at worst becomes a cheap high leverage reliever before the end of the year, but has ace potential long term, they also should try and lock rodon up to an extension immediately. Buy out 2 free agent years. He has shown as is he is a mid rotation starter and its only upside. If he has a great year which they need to win anyway they lose all bargaining power with the way teams are paying for pitching. Something like 8 years 65 mil for him since he still has 2 years at the min.
I’m sorry – I’m confused as to what you’re suggesting. De Leon got me listening and you’re talking about the Sox closer Robertson…after that, it got all fuzzy.
Rodon isn’t going anywhere.
I said they should extend rodon, and use tobertson in the hypothetical of them trading for ethier to also aquire de leon. Something along the framework of roberston and sanchez for ethier and de leon. The problem is thr dodgers would want to include money to increase ethiers value, it doesnt hurt he is coming off his best year hitting.
lol!! No.
Robertson is a lock down, lights out closer. Eithier, is a platoon outfielder that costs a ton of $. And you want our ONLY MLB SS until Anderson can get up?
No way.
Backup SS, I mean. Saladino should be the staring SS. But Sanchez is the only fallback.
Brendan ryan just signed a mknor league deal, glove only utility infielders can be had for the minimum. If a back up infielder is the hold up in a trade you have no idea how to evaluate talent. And robertson is good, only reason he has value. I feel like u want a de leon level prospect for avi garcia or melky lol
I just don’t want a trade involving CarGo. You keep him – get your mint from someone else. I’d rather have Either than him…by far.
The Dodgers are on Robertsons no trade list. The Dodgers have enough prospects for McGee.
Send Danks and Sign Buerhle ?
I mean…same pitcher, really. Danks will get what…$14M this year? Per fangraphs, he actually pitched to that value last year. He’s just an innings eater.
Sox could really use another righty, there if possible.
I love Buherle like a fish loves water, though.
SAME PITCHER?!?!?….I’D LIKE TI BUY SOME OF WHAT YOU’RE SMOKIN, PLEASE….
I am the farthest thing from a Dodgers fan, but I really don’t get the flak that Ethier receives from fans. He definitely had a down year (for him, but honestly not THAT bad) in 2014, but he has had a very consistent, relatively injury-free career. Sure he is (slightly) overpaid, but so are most players on big market teams. Besides, it’s not you signing the checks so who cares if he is overpaid anyway? It’s not like the Dodgers have a budget or something.
I don’t care that the Dodgers pay him $18M. I care about the White Sox not getting that value from him if they trade for him.
I don’t see it.
He can’t hit his weight against LHP.
We already have LaRoche for that (at $13M/yr.).
I’m not one who is hoping to see him pushed out the door. The article is totally one-sided and doesn’t even try to make a case for how the Dodgers would improve by trading him. I’m open to theories about how it might, but if it’s only about reducing payroll, that is not the right answer. My head is spinning with the suggestion that the Dodgers might have any use for Danks.
Yeah, I’m with you there. I see Danks as much a fit for you guys as I do Ethier for us. But, there are Sox fans that like him (Ethier). I don’t get it.
I don’t want the Sox to go anywhere near left handed, mid 30 year old, “hitters” from the NL. Been there, done that..
Dunn and LaDunn.
Yes one stupid contract validates every decision moving forward. Different players. High k rate players dont age well and dunn was out of shape to begin with. Ethier is coming off the best year of his career with the bat. Sure he cant hit lefties but name all the lefty starters in the a.l central. Norris, maybe duffy, maybe tommy milone? As the strong side of a platoon ur talking 125 games. And the dodgers will eat money for better prospect. So in reality they prolly get him at 12 mil a year which is fine.
It is fine. Ethier is just not a guy I want the Sox to even look at. No offense. Just don’t like him for the team or the future, and that’s fine. Not every ballplayer is a fit for every team.
He would be the sox second best hitter after abreu. Even crawford upgrades their offense. Again its the dodgers, they would eat enough to get it to a managable number. The prospect cost would be next to nothing even if the dodgers kicked in 20 mil and u get a solid upside play. The sure things are gone at this point. So its either punt the season or load up on upside plays because avi in right and danks as a 5th starter isnt good enough even in an open division. Cleveland has a similar staff, if they add freese or uribe and a bullpen piece they are probably ahead of the sox.
Coming off the best year of his career with the bat? You can’t be serious right?
Danks has no place whatsoever on the Dodgers’ roster. Even assuming they had any need for another LHP (which they do not), they already have Wood, who is quite a bit better, and has options. The White Sox are in it to fill a roster need and the Dodgers are in it for, what exactly? Seems only some teams need good reasons to trade, and others trade just for the heck of it, I guess. Noting that this is how articles are being written more often recently.
By both ops+ and Wrc he is. But its fine ignore the stats. He is a good player, has never been a star though, maybe thats why you thought he used to better or something.
Danks and Putnam for ether plus 10m then sign latos
very interesting trade theories. If i’m Hahn I still figure Jackson is a better way to fix the OF problem, maybe flip a prospect at the non waiver deadline to get pitching help if they are contending.
Danks is negative value, the dodgers rotation is already 8 deep. Putnam may interest them, but probably not because he isnt great, relies too much on his split.
Please no….. I can’t take another dagger to the heart from Rick Hahn.
If the White Sox can’t find a more suitable trade this offseason that might further deplete their weak farm system or cost them a significant member of their 2016 active roster, they simply ought to allocate the dollars they had seemed willing to spend on free agents Yoenis Cespedes, Justin Upton or Alex Gordon and redirect them to two other FA’s who would upgrade two positions of need, OF Dexter Fowler and SS Ian Desmond.
At this late juncture of the offseason and with most of the perceived contenders having already filled their major needs, it seems quite possible that the White Sox could sign both Fowler and Desmond for contracts considerably less than what each was projected for in terms of dollars and years. The White Sox front office should offer each player a two year contract that includes a player opt-out after one season, perhaps with a third year team option and a minimal buy out. I doubt either player will receive a more significant offer at this point. If they do then the White Sox should wish them luck and make do with Avisail Garcia and Tyler Saladino in RF and SS for the time being. If they are successful in securing both players they will likely be adding two, 3+ WAR players to their opening day starting lineups while still retaining Garcia as a valuable platoon DH and backup corner OF and Saladino as versatile utility infielder who can competently play all 4 infield positions.
Fowler and Desmond seem reasonably safe investments that would cost the White Sox cash that was already earmarked, along with two 2016 June draft choice, the #28 compensatory sandwich pick received for the Jeff Samardzija FA signing and their regular 2nd round selection. They would still retain their protected #10 first round pick. What they stand to gain is another 6+ victories above their currently projected 81 win total which might make them the preseason favorites in a competitive A.L. Central, if not the entire American League. Make it so, Jerry Reinsdorf, Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn!
The draft can restrengthen the farm, ur talking about a pick in the 20’s and the 40’s. Combined value of roughly 20 mil depending who u ask. They still have a relativively weak bullpen and no sp depth. So basically one injury away from last. Just not a fan of that, make an upside play for a bad contract that wont hurt the farm, or trade robertson for a package that helps other areas short and long term and then sign clippard. Honestly b.j. upton, carl crawford, maybe even michael bourne. You get those guys for nothing and have the upside of being 3-4 win players. Pedro alvarez can be had on a 1 year deal if u really dont believe in laroche bouncing back.
I like it
Sure, Danks to LA. Just what the Dodgers need…more mediocre lefties. Horrible pairing bub
Why would the Dodgers have any interest in Adam Laroche when they already have left-handed hitting Adrian Gonzalez playing first base?
In addition, they already have Scott Van Slyke as their backup at first base. Unlike LaRoche, Van Slyke bats right-handed, can fill in at all three outfield positions, is 29 years old, has an enormously cheaper contract and despite a sub-par season in 2015 still posted a better triple slash than LaRoche did.
They just referenced him as a way to offset money. Instead of paying the sox cash with ethier they could try and eat more cash anf flip laroche as well. Only after trying that they just d.f.a him
If Adam LaRoche or John Danks were to be used as part of a bad contract swap with the idea of being flipped later it would make more sense for the White Sox to hook up with the rebuilding Milwaukee Brewers for potential trades. The Brewers have two bad longer term contracts they would love to lose and the White Sox might have some use for a right-handed starter like Matt Garza and a slugging power hitter such as Ryan Braun in the middle of their batting order.
Where is the love for free agent shortstop Ian Desmond? Why not offer him a reasonable short term contract with a player opt-out following the 2016 season. There is a good chance he would be amenable to such a deal, especially with a perceived contender like the White Sox who play their home games in a “hitter-friendly” venue, along with few better options available to him this late in the off-season. He could take advantage of the opt-out with a good season and still be he premium free agent shortstop in next winter’s FA market. This is a player, who despite a sub-par 2015 season, has still averaged 31 doubles, 22 HR’s, 77 RBI’s, 20 SB’s and a 3.23 WAR over the past 4 seasons. Desmond is still just 30 years old, nearly as durable as former SS Alexei Ramirez was and most importantly is an above average MLB defender at the position.
Tyler Saladino can then become the backup SS as well as a valuable reserve who can play the other 3 infield positions when needed. What do the White Sox have to lose other than a portion of cash that was already earmarked for one of the three premium free agent OF’s they missed out on, along with the #28 compensatory draft pick they received for the Jeff Samardzija FA signing? Seems like a minimal cost for a former All-Star shortstop who has also won 3 silver slugger awards and is still in the prime of his career. It would also give the White Sox a starting infield capable of hitting 90-120 HR’s in 2016. The general formula for the White Sox reaching the postseason since the Cell has opened is 200+ HR’s to go along with solid pitching. Signing Desmond and adding one more impacting OF like FA Dexter Fowler or one of the “reported” trade targets might just punch their ticket back to the playoffs in 2016.
All good points. Signing Desmond and Dexter Fowler would have been a better deal than trading prospects for Frazier and trading for Ethier.
The issue w. Desmond is a team would need to commit to at least 2-3yr to make the loss of a draft pick sting less. I think a team friendly deal makes Desmond a nice bounce back candidate, but it’s a tough sell for only 1 yr (whether it be a 1yr contract or opt-out clause).
Your point is moot since Desmond will most certainly sign with somebody before long and likely not for a long term contract.
How many teams that might still be interested in him also have a protected first round draft choice like the White Sox? The Tampa Bay Rays, another perceived contender who might like to add Desmond (a native to the area) would have to forfeit their first round pick (#13) to sign Desmond. That doesn’t sit too well with a small market team that has built it’s MLB team historically through the draft.
The White Sox, on the other hand, have a protected first round pick (#10) and would forfiet their next selection, the #28 compensatory pick they received when Jeff Samardzija signed with the Giants. In addition, the White Sox have done quite poorly in constructing a team with draft choices in the recent past. They are terrible in developing position players and their best success has been with their selection of college pitchers (Chris Sale, Carlos Rodon, Carson Fulmer?) in the first round, a pick they will still hold this June regardless of who they might sign with an attached qualifying offer.
I think the Braves and White Sox should talk Markakis. Something along the line of a Markakis and Banuelos for Laroche and Micker Adolfo.
Was thinking a Markakis trade as well. But a return of Michalczewshi and Alfaro.
Sox should call Yanks and inquire about Gardner, with LaRoche going to the yankees
Markakis is barely an upgrade over Avi Garcia…not worth doing.
Lol
No chance in hell the sox are trading micker.
Does mlbtraderumors do any original reporting anymore?? This was on bleacher report 6 hours before it was here. I used to rave to people about how amazing this site was for getting the jump on ESPN and all other major outlets. Since expanding to other sports this site has lost its fire. Disappointed reader
This was originally reported two days ago by Rogers.
Trading Eithier doesn’t makes sense for the Dodgers. Crawford stinks and they don’t know what they are going to get out of Puig and Pederson.
Depends on the return. Crawford does not stink, just cannot avoid the DL. When healthy Crawford can still hit and run; never has been much of an OF’er. After April 21 Ethier will have the right to veto any trade, so I look for Dodgers to move him somewhere before that date and save around $19MM. Ethier and $19MM for a couple of mid-level minor league prospects would be a good deal for Dodgers; no thanks on Danks, or Laroche.
Crawford was one of the better, if not the best, LF when he was with the Rays. Even now Crawford is more of an average LF, not bad.
He takes terrible routes to fly balls not directly at him, when he reaches the warning track he becomes tentative and plays balls on the rebound that should have been easily caught. And his arm is simply too weak allowing runners to take extra bases. If not for Alex Guerrero playing the OF on occasion, Crawford is easily the worst defensive OF’er on the Dodgers roster. At this point in his career he would be better off as a DH.
CWS should be looking at Carl Crawford instead.
I think Austin Jackson would be a solid get. He’s been slightly more valuable than Fowler and comes at a much cheaper price. Both in contract dollars, length, and doesn’t cost a draft pick. Not that his signing would satisfy me as a fan like a Cespedes signing would have, or a Corey Dickerson trade, but though I like Fowler, he is a much more risky and costly sign.
The SS position is a worry as well. It would nice if Tyler Saladino could do a solid job, but for a team trying to compete now, it just doesn’t make sense. All Hawk’s hyperbole doesn’t translate into wins on the field. The Sox have three interesting bench IF in Saladino, Sanchez, and Leury Garcia, but none is a starting SS in the bigs. Rollins is done being productive, Desmond is a solid player, but money, contract length and draft pick cost are probably going to end that thought for Hahn.
The team I keep going back to in my mind for a trading partner is the Cubs. Soler in RF or even as a future DH for the Sox is so interesting. I know how holy the Sox hold their pitching to be, but Quintana to the Cubs for Soler, a prospect like C Victor Caratini, and a guy with something to prove Arismendy Alcantara, who plays 2B/SS/OF.
Lies….
Crazy thought here, but……..(Now, I’m not a White Sox fan, just a huge Baseball fan, but here’s an idea that I think they should consider)
Rather than chase Ethier, why not go after Brett Gardner? Yankees would like to move him, might pay a portion of his salary, he’s 2 years younger than Ethier, and a much better defender (similar offensive output). Yankees could sure use a 1 year stop-gap to losing Greg Bird for the season (although he wasn’t really going to play a lot) and might take Adam LaRoche back in a trade (although that could complicate the yanks paying part of Gardner’s salary), if the Sox toss in another pitching prospect…….Gardner is signed for 3 years at an average of $11 mil/yr.
I don’t think the Yankees are trading Gardner, though it’s not a bad idea. They’d want a SP and Whtie Sox have SP who have way More valuable than Gardner AND they have SP who are way Less valuable than Gardner. It would be a multi-player swap (mix of minor leaguers/major leaguers) perhaps, but I just don’t see a trade working out between the 2 teams
Let me correct myself on something. I believe the Yankees have said they’d want a pitcher with 0-3 years control for Gardner (and/or Miller).. No way the White Sox would trade Rondon. Erik Johnson has only pitched a grand total of 16 games in 3 seasons. About half a season’s worth of games. So there’s no way the Yankees would just settle for him.
I just don’t see a trade working out.
Trust me, the Sox wouldn’t even consider moving Johnson for Gardner at this point. That wouldn’t make any sense for them.
You are pretty on point with your comments concerning the yanks. The yanks and the pale sox just don’t match up. I don’t think that yanks are trying to move Gardner, but he is pretty darn valuable trade commodity – quality fielder, has a good eye at the plate, is a base stealing concern for opposing teams and has a friendly contract. To move him for anything less than a young mid rotation starter would be silly. to swap him for laroche is just crazy talk and I don’t see the white sox giving rondon up for him. It’s just not in the cards
You are correct. Rodon isn’t on the table unless it’s in talks for a stud player in his low-mid 20’s (And the Sox still probably wouldn’t be interested in moving him). He’s certainly not being discussed for a 32 year old outfielder.
Priggs89, you think Johnson who has only 16 starts in 3 seasons and a career 5.32 FIP has more value than Gardner? Please explain why.His ERA is okay but his WHIP is very poor. K/BB ratio is only 1.53. I’m not sure why you think the White Sox think highly of him, just because he was a former top prospect.
He’s a #5 starter. I think any team would trade a #5 starter for a 3 WAR OFer.
Meh. At this point hes a number 5, offers mid rotation upside, has 6 years of control, 2 at the min. Gardner however offers basically no surplus value, just fills a spot of need. I dont think i would call gardner a 3 win ofer moving forward. Hes on the downswing of the aging curve.
the0216, my point was Gardner has way more value than Johnson, and there’s absolutely no way the Yankees would give up a Starting all star 3 WAR OFer for a backend starter
Despite a very poor 2nd half due to a wrist injury, Gardner had a 3.3 WAR, last year, so unless he continues to struggle like he did in the second half (again, which due to a wrist injury), I don’t see why you wouldn’t call him a 3 WAR player. Gardner has put up a 3+ WAR every single season since 2010, except for 2012 when he only played in 9 games. .
Put it this way, if each player was traded right now for another player, who would net the bigger return, Gardner or Johnson? Despite him being older, I don’t see how Johnson who has done very little in the majors and has been ineffective, would bring you a better player than Gardner. Hence why I said Gardner has way more value, and the White Sox would be crazy not to give him up for Gardner (and the Yankees would be crazy to give Gardner up for him)
I think we’ve all agreed though that a trade does not work, and the White Sox don’t need Gardner since they have Eaton already
Surplus value vs known commodity. Surplus value requires far more risk than a known commodity – as a sox fan you should understand the risk involved, i.e. Matt Davidson. He was supposed to man the hot corner for years to come, but he hasn’t put it together yet and the sox had to go out and first acquire lawrie and then Frazier.
Theo, maybe you haven’t seen Gardner enough. This is a guy that you can slot in at the 1-2 in the line up or the 7. He consistently sees more pitches per at bat that just about anyone. He does many of the little things that don’t show up in box scores. Unlike speed, which has slowed, his value is not something that has a downswing and he still covers a lot of ground in the of. Plus he comes with cost certainty – approx 12 mil a year. Which is less than what the sox pay melky.
Lastly, filling a glaring hole in a lineup with a consistent, cost affordable vet has significant value. Far beyond a fringe #5 starter with a mid rotation ceiling.
I dont think a wrist injury mad his defense worse. It was the worst defensive year of his career and fewest steals, these are things he isn’t likely to get back as hes 33 this summer. 2.5 war this year, declining every year most likely. And all star is in the past, it has no merit on future production.
Ive seen gardner plenty. Its just a fact that speed/defense guys dont age well. He is still a starter, just not an all star. He will begin hitting the decline now which happens when players turn 33 just a fact. Those little things have shown to have almost no correlation with winning i.e. pitches per p.a. and i dont think you realize they have no s.p depth. They cant afford to trade johnson.
Stolen bases are many times managerial decision. Girardi rarely sends runners anymore (The Yankees were 11th in BsR but only 25th in stolen bases)
Oh and out of 54 OFers qualified in BsR, Gardner was ranked 8th in 2015. He is ranked 10th out of 135 the past 5 seasons (which includes almost an entire missed season in 2012). His BsR the last 2 years has been 5.5 and 5.6.
As mentioned, it was 5.6 last year. The entire Chicago White Sox OF had a BsR of -1.7. You can call it “declining”, but it was better than any player on the current White Sox team, OF or IF (though Eaton was close at 5.5)
By the way, you say he’ll decline when he hits 33. That may be true.. But he’d still likely average at least a 2.5-3 WAR the next 3 years.
Over the past 5 years, there have been 15 qualified OFers who have played from ages 33-35. 6 of them have averaged higher than 2.5 WAR per year (or 7.5+).
Again, I don’t think the Sox need Gardner, but you’re undervaluing him, and way overvaluing Erik Johnson
Though as I said, we are in an agreement at least that these 2 teams don’t’ match, unless multiple players are involved.
I never said he had more value, I just said the Sox wouldn’t do it.
You’re right, Johnson was a former top prospect, and then he completely lost his way. Then he went outside of the organization to get help and get back on track, which appears to have helped. He was excellent in AAA last year and looked MUCH improved when he was called up. I don’t really care what his FIP was; it’s not like the defense helped him achieve a significantly better ERA. There are a lot of guys that outpitch their FIP, and it looks like he can be one of them. If not, so be it.
He still has far too much potential to trade for a 32 year old speed player, especially with all the cheap control he has left. The Sox are definitely going to want to see what he has this year before moving him, unless it’s part of a deal for a much higher profile player than Gardner, who would make the team better but not even come close to making them a legitimate threat. It just doesn’t make sense for them to give up on that potential and cheap control for a player that won’t put them over the edge.
Just my $.02
Those ofers generally startex at a higher war to begin with. Starting at 6 war and going to 5 is still a 1 win drop off.the age curvd predicts a .5 war loss every year. Again he is declining im not saying he fell off a cliff. He was an elite baserunner, who will be down to plus this year, above avrrage next, and average in the final year of his deal. His defense might already be average starting this year. He has value and is still a good player, but one you trade prospects for not someone out of ur rotation. Gardner was one of my favorite players the last decade but im not blinded by fandom, age hits all players. By the way he doesnt play rf leaving the sox with no good fits for right because they would have 3 weak armed of’s
Just wanted to point out all the stats u brought up are what he did in the prime of his career 26-31 to expect that moving forward is just incorrect. He will likely average 2 war the next 3 years. An average of. The sox are more willing to punt corner of d for a big bat than most teams. Gardners package is more rounded. I do think johnson for gardner straight up is a perfectly fine trade just think it doesng help either team.
Crazy thought here, but……..(Now, I’m not a White Sox fan, just a huge Baseball fan, but here’s an idea that I think they should consider)
Rather than chase Ethier, why not go after Brett Gardner? Yankees would like to move him, might pay a portion of his salary, he’s 2 years younger than Ethier, and a much better defender (similar offensive output). Yankees could sure use a 1 year stop-gap to losing Greg Bird for the season (although he wasn’t really going to play a lot) and might take Adam LaRoche back in a trade (although that could complicate the yanks paying part of Gardner’s salary), if the Sox toss in another pitching prospect…….Gardner is signed for 3 years at an average of $11 mil/yr.
Not sure why this double posted, but there’s no “Delete” button……
Same as Markakis in Atlanta. Markakis has better batting average. Same age as well.
You said that already
The app is showing everyone’s comments being posted 2-4 times
Even more reason to look at Markakis. .300 hitting left handed, decently priced for his age over the cost of the others mention and can grab a high pitching prospect with the trade. Was quite successful in AL.
That’s what I’ve been thinking — Ethier? With all that money due ($35.5MM, not including the vesting option for ’18)? Markakis will set the table for Frazier/Abreu a lot better with that high-OBP he’s known for.
The stats, money, age, and value just do not make sense to me with Ethier. Not that Atlanta needs to part with Markakis, I love what he brings to the lineup, but worth it if we can get something of return. Fans and writers bag on Markakis, I don’t see where the problem is with him, .300 hitter with a decent contract for his age and this market. Granted he is not hitting 30 HRs, but he could definitely score the runs in the setup you mention.
Because he offers no power. He was basically a league average hitter while hitting almost 300, 42 homers doubles and triples combined. Terrible defender. He just isnt as good as ethier and is almost the same money.
I don’t claim to be Stephan Hawking, but $38M over 2 years and $33M over 3 are not exactly the same money.
If CWS acquires him, they’ll use him enough to trigger that vesting option for 2018 (550 PA). That being said, they’re not equal contracts. All-in-all, I would expect Markakis to be as equal of a defender as Ethier, Markakis’ 2nd year removed from major neck surgery. Offensively, they should be equal in most categories with Markakis having a better ability to score runs. I could see LAD kicking in quite a bit of money (not unlike getting rid of Olivera).
Markakis is a terrible OF. And he’s not going to improve. Avi at least has potential for improvement.
Best fielding percentage for RFers last year, 6th in range, least errors, second in innings all across qualified RFers in MLB. No not a lot of outfield assist, but how exactly is he terrible?
How so? .300 hitter, yes less pop last year removed from neck surgery. But his defensive metrics are there: 2nd in innings, 1st in fielding %, 6th in Range Factor, and one error. Biggest bag on him can be few outfield assists.
Depends what defensive metrics you trust. Fangraphs and Fielding Bible are among those that have graded him out negatively in arm, range and overall.
Probably best not to use total innings as a judge of good D either – Matt Kemp was Top 5 in defensive innings for RF’ers last year, and there’s a case for him to be the worst defensive outfielder in recent history (-107.8 career UZR, -14.5 UZR/150).
Innings isnt a metric in anyway. How is that a stat that measures ability. He was 14th in range (min. 500 inn), dead last in arm. He doesnt make errors is all he offers, but that doesnt mean hes a good defender.
I understand what you guys are saying, I was just going off basic stats from MLB.
They want someone to put between Abreu and Frazier anyway. 500 slug 900 ops in 450 at bats isn’t easy to find to begin with for 18m. Now factor in that the Dodgers can pay half of it and he really only costs 9m AAV and it’s impossible to acquire at that cost without giving up high end controllable assets.
If they think they can get a .900 OPS and a .500 slugging from Ethier I’d be shocked. He just had the best year he’s had recently, but at his age I doubt he’s turned over a new leaf. I say Markakis is better then him all around next year and slightly cheaper.
As your attorney I advise you to pump those brakes and double check those numbers(?) that led you to that conclusion.
33 yr old Ethier’s last 5 seasons(
OPS+ WAR
121 -2011 – 3.0.
123 2.9.
121. 3.0
97. 0.8
136 -2015- 2.9(in only 395 AB’s)
32 yr old Markakis’ last 5
OPS+ WAR
106 – 2011 – 1.4
126 1.6
88 -0.2
104 2.4
110 1.6
That’s a 120 ops+ and a combined 12.6 WAR for ethier and a 106 ops+ and a combined 7.0 WAR for Nicky M
Counselor, I guess it depends on how much LAD wants to eat of that $38 over the next 2-3 years.
My thinking on Markakis is he will cost CWS $5M less with an additional year.
Why not go after someone with little excess value, and a lower cost of acquisition like Nick Markakis? There is always the higher cost player like Inciarte
Braves will let you have Bourn and Swisher if you want.
Haha, hell might even pay $5M of the $19 they owe them.
If you ask me (and no one did, but whatever) you White Sox fans are being completely off-the-charts ridiculous. The idea that signing Austin Jackson — right-handed, seriously declining, whose value is tied almost exclusively to his ability to play where your second best player already is — might be better than trading for Andre Either is one of the most bizarre ideas I’ve seen this off-season.
Either played last year in one of the worst hitting parks in baseball and rocked a 900 OPS against right-handers, which is 2/3 of your games (more, actually, because the AL Central is right-hand heavy). He’s also a perfectly decent outfielder. And for those of you AL-aphiles, that only works for pitchers. It’s actually harder to hit in the NL than the AL. You want Andre Ethier (or Carlos Gonzales, who is even better but costs more.
Why would the Dodgers trade him? Money doesn’t seem to matter.
A freaking 900 ops that rakes RHP that sits in the meat of the order between RHB Abreu and Frazier is 20m a season on the open market. if the Dodgers pony up 10m big ones and a crucial number 4 hitter between our righty dominated lineup we’d be insane to not do that. Markakis? Gardner? Come on, that’s not a similar comparison. If we don’t want to spend 20m on that type of player in FA and we’re trying to get that level of production on a budget then it’s going to cost a top prospect like Fulmer. Do we want to win now or just think about replacing a number 2 or 3 starter in the future? Indecision is the decision to just wait another year, another year. Ethier and 10m dollars and a young pitching prospect for Fulmer. Done!
This is why i suggested giving up robertson, you get to keep the farm, moves jones to closer, sign clippard for the 8th. Keep farm and picks intact. Its a trade that helps now and the future. Robertson and sanchez for ethier + 15 mil + willie calhoun.
The Dodgers have 5 second basemen: Kendrick, Utley, Kike, Alex Guerrero and the Johnson kid they got from the Sox. They’re not interested in Sanchez. You might be on to something with Robertson though.
Sox should have done this at winter meetings:
LaRoche & Danks & prospect(s) – To Brewers
for Matt Garza & LuCroy.
LaRoche & Danks are due $25 mil
Garza is due $25 mil
but it would have freed up $$$ for this winter.
Garza is a decent bounce back canidate -career ERA is a lot better than Danks.
LuCroy can catch but also play 1st and DH.
Would’ve had to have been really good prospects…
Why would Milwaukee make that deal?? They’d have zero want for LaRoche or Danks, aging veterans that are both free agents in 2017. They get no salary relief, a down-grade at pitcher (whom they don’t even want in their rotation to begin with), a 36 year-old free agent to be, and a couple of prospects for an All-Star catcher and a pitcher who has shown more than Danks in his career? Unless the prospects you speak of are Anderson, Fulmer, and another low-level guy that would be a horrible trade.
b/c – Brewers – need prospects. If Sox put 4 in the deal
and they might be able to flip Laroche or danks
at the deadline for another prospect.
could turn into 5 or 6 total prospects for Garza & LuCroy
The Brewers want better prospects for Lucroy than the White Sox can give. They have done a good job rebuilding their system so it’s more about quality than quantity at this point. Plus if they deal Garza they want to shed salary, not take on LaRoache and Danks. Danks would also have no place in the rotation so he’d have no value and LaRoche would be an aging rental who wouldn’t fetch much at the deadline. They’d be much better off just holding Garza and hoping he bounces back to flip him at the deadline and trade Lucroy to a team like Texas or Tampa who has more advanced prospects to part with.
The Brewers want better prospects for Lucroy than the White Sox *are willing to* give.
Fixed. The Sox have more than enough to get a deal done if they really wanted to.
I don’t know about “more than enough” their farm system is pretty weak (B/R has them ranked 26th). The Brewers have pretty much said they are looking for 2 top 100 type prospects and the Sox only have 2. Sure if they’re willing to include Anderson and Fulmer maybe they can get it done, but that would be pretty steep and I don’t see any way they would do it. So if you take even one of those 2 out, then they probably don’t have the prospects to get it done.
One top top 50 guy is worth 2 bottom end 100 guys though. Secondly lucroy really hurt his trade value last year. I would be very surprised they get the package they want. Rangers and mariners only 2 teams i see with a need. Could see the rangers offering deshields and a solid prospect.
I’m not sure he hurt his value as much as people say. 264 with 20 2B, 3 3B, and 7 HR in only 2/3 of the games is still pretty good production for a catcher when he was slowed by injury and it’s still considered a very down year. The concussion concern my drop value a little, but he seems to be over that. Bottom line is the Brewers have zero reason to trade him right now,. so if they don’t get what they want for him they just wont trade him. The ball is in everyone else’s court, not theirs. DeShields and a prospect doesn’t even get the ball rolling.
Not that I think DeShields and a prospect is a bad offer, but the fact that he broke rookie levels last year I think would be a deterrent to them as they plan for a couple years out.
Why not? Now the sox can have LaEthier. That’s what I’d expect out of that front office. Another old over rated national leaguer. Way to go Hahn and Williams.
If the Chisox want someone with value, they should do a deal with the Braves: Chicago gets Ender Inciarte (LH OF 5yr pre arb, 5.9 WAR) and Nick Swisher (SH OF/1B, 1Yr, 15MIL) for MIke Olt 3B and prospects Tim Anderson #1, MLB38, Carson Fulmer #2, MLB42, and Troy Michaelczewski #4, unranked.
Lol. Adding swisher decreases prosoect cost. And you dont get two top 50 prospects for ender anyway. All value tied to defense
So the Sox should sell the farm AND take on Swisher’s contract just to get Inciarte?
Other than Fulmer the sox don’t have a farm system
Spencer adams has way more upside than fulmer, danish is a very good prospect, jordan guerrero had an excellent year last year from g he left side, adam engel might be a huge breakout candidate this year and of course tim anderson, the rest of the system is raw but those guys are all legit prospects. This isnt the angels.
I really like Spencer Adams, but you are SEVERELY underrating Fulmer. He’s been dominant literally everywhere he has pitched. Scouts are somewhat down on him because he’s right around 6′ tall and doesn’t have an “effortless” delivery. Despite that, he definitely still has TOR potential.
Hes basically a finished product though, hes never going to have great command with his violent delivery, and yes college and low minors you can get away with 2 pitches. But to me in the bigs he looks more mid rotation if he can handle thd workload. Still a chance he cant handle the innings with his frame and the delivety in which case hes a lights out closer. Im high on him just realistic. Adams has that workhorse frame with frontline stuff so i put him first. If youve seen filmer u know thd delivery is more violent than sale and he doesnt have sales great change so a lot of stressful pitches. Jordan guerrero is my sleeper though. Can see him being midseason top 100 lists.
He may not ever have GREAT command, but he’s not a wild pitcher by any means. He’s also got more than 2 pitches – the fastball and power curve are both above-average to plus pitches already, and he’s got a slightly above average change up. I see no reason why he can’t improve the change up and make it an above-average to plus pitch as well over time, especially now that he’ll have the chance to actually work on it. As you mentioned, you can get away with 2 pitches in college. He really didn’t have a reason to work that hard on the change; now he has that chance in the minors. I’m sure Cooper will also work with him on some variations to his fastball. I really doubt he’s already a finished product, and even if he is, he has the chance to be a lights out closer, like you said. I just think saying “way more upside” is a stretch. Heck, I hope you’re right though. If Fulmer turns into a #3 pitcher or elite closer and Spencer Adams ends up way better than that, the Sox will be in pretty damn good shape.
None of them will make it on the sox. If they do, it will not stop the losing. Their player development is embarrassing.
Why would anyone want Swisher….
They wouldn’t – especially the White Sox. They already tried that train wreck of an experiment once.
Sox would want Swisher to avoid paying $15Million to the Braves to equalize the deal.
The reported preference of an outfield upgrade like Andre Ethier over Dexter Fowler has more to do with where the White Sox envision them hitting in their batting order and less to do with platoon splits.
Fact is, the switch=hitting Fowler has far better platoon splits than what Ethier offers as a typical left-handed hitting power hitter who struggles with southpaws. Fowler would also be an addition to the top of the White Sox batting order whereas Ethier would become the bridge in the lineup between right-handed hitting sluggers Jose Abreu and Todd Frazier. Because Fowler would be a table setter, his OBP numbers would be the primary concern in his platoon splits, where it is a very respectable .351 number in his career versus right-handed starting pitching.
The White Sox preference would seemingly be to add that bridge in the middle of their batting order, hence Ethier over Fowler. However, White Sox fans are all too familiar with the struggles the team has had with the #2 slot in their lineup for many years. It could be argued that signing Fowler or trading for another top of the order outfielder like Charlie Blackmon might have just as important an impact on the White Sox offense as finding a left-handed power bat to slot between Abreu and Frazier. Either Fowler or Blackmon would be provide a slight upgrade as a true leadoff hitter over Adam Eaton with their better ability to steal base while the latter could still slide down and be a huge improvement as the clubs #2 hitter with his plate patience, high BA and OBP numbers, excellent foot speed and new found power.
The White Sox might also have better options than just Ethier as a potential power bridge. Carlos Gonzalez would actually fill the role far better for about the same amount of guaranteed money left on his contract while a right-handed slugger like Ryan Braun would not have the inferior platoon splits of either Ethier or Gonzalez and could probably be had for even less talent due to the 5 yrs/$105M still left on his deal, still considerably less than what Justin Upton signed for with the Tigers. Braun, even at 32 and with some injury concerns is still a better hitter than Upton has ever been and actually a better defensive RF who can still steal a fair amount of bases.
No one cares about platoon splits because they will still have avi. Hes above average against lefties so let them platoon him so not to completely give up on him.
Some good stuff in there and smart but you’re leaving out one important component. The ChiSox have zero interest in adding the payroll you’re contemplating on their behalf, Ethier makes sense as a LHH with power that slots in between the two righties AND this is important – the Dodgers have the ability to pay the deal down and make it palatable for Chicago which Colorado or Milwaukee can not. So to summarize: Rox, Brew, and ChiSox don’t have money to solve the problem and the Dodgers do. But money isn’t free, you pay for it with the other tangible goods known as prospects or high upside controllable assets,
Rox and Brewers both have plenty of money to pay down those contracts for the right deal, but neither of them have any reason to. Sox would have to offer a heck of a package to get either of them to chip in salary money as neither of them are motivated sellers like the Dodgers are.
Mikeyst13 you’re making my point. I don’t have 100 grand to spend on anything this moment but you offer me Manhatten for it and I’ll find the cash. Rox and Brewers wont pay down Cargo or Braun unless they’re getting Manhatten and even then they really don’t want to and the Dodgers can write a 20m check in 10 seconds and make the return palatable: Fulmer and we’ll throw in your choice of Bolsinger or Zach Lee.
How about Ethier and Bolsinger for Fulmer and Danks. We’ll just dump Danks – write the cost off as the price of acquiring #42 pitching prospect. ChiSox have their number 4 hitter for way less than it costs for 3 war and we call it a day.
Ethier doesnt project for 3 war though, the dodgers fans here dont seem to realize hes on the downside of the age curve. I think 2 war is a reasonable outcome for him this year. Prolly somewhere over 1 war in the last year of his deal. So its basically trade him now or be on the hook for 1 war and 19 mil next year. His defense is about to fall off a cliff and people just dont realize.
Oh. Gosh. Really?
They should go after Braun. Though I think his back issue and that he might not be full go by the time the season starts is probably a reason for it not to happen. As a Brewers fan I would love to see it.
Braun is not going anywhere. With the thumb and back concerns there is no way the Brewers can get fair value without covering a bunch of his salary. If he puts up a good and healthy first half and or entire season then maybe he can be moved at the deadline or next off season, but for now he’s staying put.
Neither Carlos Gonzalez nor Ryan Braun are available, so that’s moot.
The best available outfielder in the trade market is Andre Ethier.
If I had a good roster, I might prefer signing Fowler. But the White Sox need impact bats capable of carrying a team and Fowler just isn’t that. The White Sox need Ethier, and they need an MVP season out of him.
It’s sad that it’s gotten to that when every need could have been filled for the White Sox on the free agent market. Now they have to trade prospects, pay high salary, and hope for unrealistic production just to even sniff competing.
My first choice is still a complete tear down, because the likelihood of them making enough moves to even get in the conversation of luck is pretty low.
Make it a 3-way trade Dodgers aquire Danks/LaRoche/Fulmer/Santana/Frazier. White Sox aquire Ethier/Indians CBA pick/cash considerations from L.A. Indians aquire Van Slyke/Michalczewski.
Wow @triberulz I’ll score that one from my couch: Dodgers 10, Indians 9, White Sox 0. Fulmer, Santana, Frazier, Michalczewski for Ethier, cash, and a pick? Gosh. I’m a Dodgers fan and I can tell you Chicago wouldn’t do that for a 21 year old Babe Ruth and $100m cash.
Chicago could use the cash saved by dumping Danks/Laroche 24.5 mil & sign Gallardo/Fowler. The White Sox lose just 1 pick. The Indians could go 2 ways, sign Desmond for DH & sacrafice first rd. pick. Sign Jackson/Freese for OF/3B depth.
So let me get this straight, the white trade two top 40 prospects… at positions of weakness – SS & RHP… for 35 yo Andre Ethier who costs a fortune, a CBA pick and some cash. Then they take the money from Danks & laRouche — which comes off the books next year btw — for fowler & Gallardo long term?
Anderson and Fulmer will most likely be on the team this year by mid-summer.
Yeah, they could do that, maybe even throw in Rodon for good measure or they could just sign fowler for a pick and spend that slot money elsewhere as Reinsdorf is cheap w draft money, while still having the future SS and RHP they need under control for years on rookie deals.
Thats extremely aggressive promotions. I think fulmer can be pushed like that but only in a bullpen role. Especially for innings reasons, anderson isnt ready defensively, so he wouldnt be playing short, only see it if theres an injury.
So silly I cannot even begin to explain the pipe dream this scenario is.. Just silly.
How about the Dodgers just absorb the White Sox?
They’re not going to be in Chicago long anyway.
Can someone explain what’s in this for the Dodgers? Ethier’s contract is off the books in only two years and they don’t have an immediate need for salary relief. “Thinning out the outfield” in itself is not a positive, especially when that means giving a starting spot to an injury prone 34-year old coming off a 95 OPS+ season in Carl Crawford. Unless the White Sox want to include a top prospect (which they won’t) I don’t see any offer the Dodgers could take that would justify creating a needless hole in left field.
Never mentioned giving the starting spot to Crawford. Reality is he might play half of the year. There is depth there in form of Kike, Thompson, SVS, and eventually I think Johnson. We’ve seen this story for how many years. The overcrowded outfield presents problems. The front office would be capitalizing on him at his highest point and their ability to take the best offer without having to convince him to move him. If they were to move him, like I said a straight up trade doesn’t make sense but a three team might. Everyone would prefer to trade CC, but he has no value and plays a less important position without the health and power potential.
SVS is a part-timer at best. Kike is a 2nd baseman moonlighting in the outfield. Thompson is AAAA. Ethier is WAY better than all of them. He’s probably better than Puig, at least for now. That’s the issue non-Dodgers fans (or maybe non-NL fans) are completely missing.
There’s another word for this “overcrowded” problem people keep hating about.
Depth.
Crawford becomes a platoon partner with van slyke, pederson and hernandez platoon center, or tracye thompson if they can rid themselves of crawford too. Its just about getting younger and more athletic.
So how does going from Ethier/Van Slyke to Crawford/Van Slyke make them “younger and more athletic?.” It just seems making a trade for the sake of making a trade. There’s no benefit here for LA.
Ethier gains 10 and 5 rights, its the last chance to move him, im sure they want to move crawford as well. I think he can fit as well but crawford would have to come with 30 mil.
Once again, that’s trading him for the sake of trading him. The Dodgers need to gain something besides the privilege of having to start Carl Crawford.
Yeah I know, “they can trade Crawford too.” Well if they trade Crawfors what’s the point of trading Ethier?
Because kike should be playing everyday. Thompson would be an excellent 4th ofr. There is a thing as too much depth when players demand to be playing everyday (ethier did last year). When you sign players and tell them their role they dont get happy when it changes.
The flaw in your reasoning is that Ethier is actually quite a good hitter. So trading him would not be a positive for the Dodgers, and therefore they would want something significant in return.
From what we read here the Dodgers are like the dummy partner in a bridge game. They lay their cards on the table and go for a snack.
Crawford isn’t the only issue standing in the way of dealing Ethier. So are Pederson and Puig. If they don’t get themselves together then we’re potentially looking at an OF full players who aren’t hitting their weight, or reserves moved into starting roles. I don’t see the value of moving Ethier unless it nets a quality bullpen arm, and even then, the net benefit to the Dodgers is doubtful.
Don’t know if fans of other teams feel this way but it seems to me that stories about Dodgers trades are mainly about what the other teams get and almost not at all about how the trade helps the Dodgers. This seems to be true of both trade rumors and the trades that actually happen. Getting kind of irritating.
I did really like what they got from the white sox before. Definitely a better package than what the reds got. Montas can start the yearr in the pen. And again its why i proposed robertson, an elite arm in the pen is a difference maker in the playoffs. Didnt know about his no trade to l.a good info. Maybe he would wave it.
I can appreciate what ur saying but the chances of the Dodgers including De Leon in a deal for anthing other than a young stud(with long term potential) like Sonny Gray would be contrary to what the Dodgers have stated in the past about moving him. I really really like Robertson but I just can’t see the Dodgers moving what they view as their future 1b(Urias is 1a) for a 31 yr old RP.
Just get him and a shortstop now
If they would take Danks and his salary (Sox also throw in an a’ball’ prospect or two) and the Dodgers pay for half of Ethier’s remaining salary, maybe MAYBE this would be OK for the Sox and LA. Danks can go as far as Im concerned, this notion of how lacking the rotation would be if he was gone is silly. His is a lifetime .500 pitcher and you can get a minor leaguer to do that (They have one already I think in Carroll) . The difference is Danks is making a crapload of money to be mediocre to average, However he is still a Lefty starter (which the Sox no longer need as they have three good ones in the rotation vs what appears to be a righty hitter heavy division) and would be moving to the NL, where pitchers tend to perform a bit better, and exchanging the contracts at least gets him out of the log jam that LA made for themselves in the OF.
You’re dillusional Ethier will not be a salary dump and the Dodgers will not be adding yet another lefty in the rotation when they already have more than the White Sox do. The Dodgers are probably willing to eat a lot of salary, so if the Sox aren’t giving a prospect like Fulmer up for who was the Dodgers best outfielder last year, then they will be quickly hung up on.
Wow. You’re calling someone else delusional, and then you’re suggesting a team gives up their best pitching prospect for a soon to be 34 year old strictly platoon player that’s bad on defense?
Yes, Ethier was good last year. People seem to forget that he’s an old platoon player though. If he hit both righties and lefties the way he hits righties, they might be able to fetch a top 5 prospect from a team, even at 34 years old and with that contract. Being strictly a platoon player though (I should probably say hitter, not player), albeit a good one, he’ll be lucky to grab 2 prospects in the 6-15 range.
All that being said, a deal probably won’t get done. The Dodgers don’t NEED to move him, and the Sox don’t need him enough to overpay for him.
Who’s gonna take Danks’ place in the Sox rotation? I wouldn’t do that if I were the Sox, and the Dodgers certainly won’t.
Ethier is NOT a salary dump. He was one of the better hitters in baseball against right handed pitchers last year, especially park adjusted.
Danks AND half of Ethier’s salary? That would increase the Dodgers’ financial liability. And all they get is a throw in minor leaguer?
But, but… you are forgetting about the mediocre lefty starter who the Dodgers don’t need and can’t use anywhere. Isn’t that worth something?
I think my math was off there. Still, the richest team in baseball, hoping to make a run at the pennant, trades one of their best hitters for a useless minor leaguer in order to save $5.75 million. I’m sure they’ll jump at the chance to do that.
Danks (or Laroche) makes no sense for Dodgers who are already over loaded with LH starters and have Adrian Gonzalez at 1b.
Fit doesn’t matter, it’s just to even out salary. The Dodgers would get better return if they are willing to take on one of those guys salaries.
And then what, DFA or release them?
Might as well keep Ethier than take either of those guys; he can still add value whereas Danks and/or Laroche just take up space.
Stop making sense.
The choice may be take one of them and a good prospect for Ethier or take a mid-prospect or two and pay half of Ethier’s salary. And yes, then you do whatever you want with them, the Dodgers don’t seem to care about the extra money.
The ChiSox should sign both Dexter Fowler and Ian Desmond. The Sox have the protected pick and could really benefit from one year pillow contracts, as could both Desmond and Fowler.
You can have Brett Gardner.
The Sox should just give Eric Thames a call and see if he’s interested in coming back to America. Let him try to mash righties over here if he’s interested.
Thames is not a free agent until 2017. He’ll have to mash the KBO again this year to get any interest. Also, he’s probably a 1B/DH at this point in his career.
That’s unfortunate.
The Sox have no issue with playing 1B/DH types in the outfield though, so that won’t be an issue for them.
If the White Sox want Ethier and the Dodgers are set on moving him, the Sox will get him for almost nothing. The Dodgers have zero leverage, The Sox are probably the only team interested in Ethier and after April 21 he is staying put. Even if the price is organizational filler, I suspect 2 years of Ethier would be option B or C at this point for the Sox. We will see 2-3 weeks from now when those remaining in the OF market are begging for work.
It’s not like the Dodger have to move him. Why give him up for next to nothing? If anything at that point you hold him til the deadline or til some team runs into injury problems and ship him then.
Or the Dodgers know whether they need him, the big question marks being Crawford’s health, Puig’s health and state of mind, and Pederson’s swing. None of those questions can be answered now, and there’s no reason to assume that Ethier would veto a trade in June or July. Way too much focus here on the significance of 10-5 rights and what’s good for teams other than the Dodgers.
I agree. I don’t see the Dodgers moving Ethier until they know they are covered in their outfield.
If you came here to make a post that involves trading Carson Fulmer for Andre Ethier… Please don’t. Just don’t.
You’re way too late.