In his latest notes column for FOX Sports, Ken Rosenthal reports that the Diamondbacks strongly considered a swap that would’ve sent center fielder Ender Inciarte to the Nationals in exchange for lefty Gio Gonzalez. While such a scenario is no longer a possibility — Inciarte went to the Braves along with two other highly regarded pieces in exchange for Shelby Miller, and Gonzalez makes little sense for a rebuilding Atlanta club — Rosenthal notes that the Nats could still explore similar possibilities. Moving Gonzalez for a center field option and then signing Wei-Yin Chen, to whom the Nats have previously been linked, could give the team the left-handed-hitting center field option it desires without significantly weakening the rotation. It’s also worth noting that Washington has been linked to the Rockies in the past, who have a left-handed hitting center field option in the form of Charlie Blackmon, though GM Mike Rizzo figures to explore many avenues if that route is indeed on the table.
A few more notes from Rosenthal’s latest column…
- Rizzo has repeatedly stated that he’s not interested in trading Jonathan Papelbon or Drew Storen unless he receives a nice return, but sources tell Rosenthal that the Nationals are indeed trying to move both of the right-handers. The Nats would likely need additional bullpen help were they to move either pitcher, though as Rosenthal points out, right-hander Tyler Clippard is still available in free agency, and a reunion between the two sides could make some sense. The Dodgers “figure to be” one club that will check in with the Nationals regarding Storen, Rosenthal writes.
- The specific irregularities in Kenta Maeda’s elbow remain unknown, but the Dodgers’ $25MM guarantee with $10MM worth of annual incentives is a reflection of the team’s acknowledgment that he may require surgery over the deal. According to Rosenthal, the bonuses at the back end of the deal are “largely unattainable,” so even though the contract can max out at $105MM over eight years, it’s unlikely that Maeda will receive such a sum. The elbow issue was known to every team that requested Maeda’s medical information, as it turned up in an MRI taken at the urge of his representatives with the Wasserman Media Group. Per Rosenthal, Maeda is presently asymptomatic and pain-free when he pitches.
- The Orioles have been debating moving on from Chris Davis for about a month, but the team remains engaged with the slugging first baseman due to owner Peter Angelos’ affinity for Davis. If Baltimore does ultimately move on to alternatives, Yoenis Cespedes is a more likely target for the team than Justin Upton, as Cespedes wouldn’t require the O’s to part with a draft pick.
It’s funny that even Inciarte for Gio straight up is still an overpay. AZ really undervalued Inciarte something foul.
I don’t think so. Inciarte for Gonzalez sounds like a decent deal here. 3y of a solid starter and save 2 solid kids. They only control Miller for 3 also and he’s not really any better.
Say again.. Inciarte is nothing more than Ben Revere with a slightly better glove and he’s a good bet to get DFA’d after this season because nobody will want to pay him more than 5-7m to hit singles and 25-30 doubles, steal a few bases. The game may pay more attention to defense than it used to, but they also care about taking a walk now and then and extremely low overall OBP for people wanting to make large amounts.
If you think Shelby Miller is “not really any better” than Gio Gonzalez, then you might want to watch game tape on both players last year. Gio was awful last year, horribly inconsistent. You knew what you were going to get out of Miller every time he took the mound. The same couldn’t be said about Gio.
“You knew what you were going to get out of Miller every time he took the mound.”
Yep, it was sadly a loss or a no decision thanks to the Braves poor offense.
The decision is meaningless in this context.
Guess you couldn’t tell I was joking in a way.
Miller was no better last year than he was with the Cardinals is my point and granted, Gonzalez did step back some, but he has been solid for years, plus is a lefty. He’s not old by any means. Was it worth giving up the farm and sending Inciarte as well for the more or less same?
Stewart this offseason seems to be acting like Preller did last year with the Padres, just making deals which don’t make any sense, or are ill timed, such as the Grienke one for a team that doesn’t seem likely to challenge for a PO spot soon.
You might want to watch a few actual baseball games the D-Backs play. They were in the top five in offense and defense in 2015. They just lacked a couple of starting pitchers. Prior to the 2015 season, a lot of comments similar to yours. Many projected them to finish with as bad a record as they had in 2014. They were wrong then and you are now. Stewart had a short list of needs this year. Basically starting pitchers and he accomplished it. And Miller is not the same pitcher as he was with the Cards. He has improved and will surprise you. The losses he suffered were at the hands of the Braves lack of offense.
His FIP is exactly the same though. He overachieved.
Inciarte has put up a WAR of 8.9 in 250 games, while Revere has put up a 7.3 WAR in 645 games. They’re not even close as players. Not only is Inciarte a better defender but he has a bit of room to grow offensively (more pop, better BB numbers) where Revere has none.
In short, Revere is a slap hitting 4th OF who is nice to have on the roster.
Inciarte is a 25 year old player who put up a 5+ WAR last year and is 4 years away from any significant arby numbers.
Inciarte is clearly worth more and will get more than 5-7 million per year. He proved that he can hit over 300 and he can get you 10ish homers a year. Revere won’t even get 10 home runs during his career. Inciarte isn’t as fast as Revere but he’s still very quick on his feet. He is also a very capable fielder. So Ender will NEVER get designated for assignment
You might want to check out Inciarte’s stats again. If you think a 3-4 WAR player like him is going to get DFA’ed, you’re wrong. He’s also young and yet to hit his prime.
AS didn’t undervalue him at all. they didn’t want to let him go. but they traded from strength. they didn’t need Inciarte while they did need a quality SP. the team is better with Miller than inciarte
Gotta work on those proof-reading skills.
“[…] but sources tell Rosenthal that the Nationals are indeed trying to move both one or both of the right-handers. “
Had to read that twice myself.
Blah. Apologies. It’s been fixed.
How about Storen and Gio for Ben Revere and Aaron Sanchez? Washington gets their lefty CF and a good controllable bullpen arm back in place of Storen, and the Jays get a bullpen upgrade for the year, and a better arm for the rotation this year and likely the next 2 years.
No chance. Storen alone makes 2 million more than Sanchez and Revere per year. Not too mention, Sanchez has more potential as a starter than Gio, and is already a better reliever than Storen.
You are severely overvaluing Sanchez here. As a reliever, he isn’t as good as Storen, not even really close. As a starter, he lacks secondary pitches and thus struggles going deep into games and against lefties. Gio going forward is much more likely to be a better starter, as he has actually proven this.
I do agree with you about the money difference, as the Jays would be taking on ~$14m more, but to me it would be worth it for the Jays.
Sorry, I guess you could argue that it close between Sanchez and Storen in the bullpen, if you assume that Sanchez will continue to be successful throwing 87% fastballs, which has given him his uncharacteristically low walk rate. It certainly is a possibility, but Storen is still the better bullpen pitcher for 2016.
For sure, Storen is better now. But in the future? If Sanchez can harness his control and develop his curveball, my money is on him.
The long-term financial benefits beat out Storen as well. The Jays are going to be in yet another rebuild after 2016 and with the dropping CDN dollar and the ever-increasing difficulty signing FA’s, the Jays need to squeeze every penny they can.
So two big “ifs” and Sanchez can be better. But when is he going to be able to develop his curveball if he is in the Major League bullpen throwing 87% fastballs? If he is going to become a serviceable Major League starter, he needs to be able to get regular turns in the rotation, and the Jays can’t afford to give him that. So unless he is going to be in AAA for a few months, he isn’t developing that curveball until next year at the earliest.
Financially, both short term and long term, this move is tough for the Jays. But they become a better team both this year and likely the next two, depending on the health of Gio (which isn’t really in question). And if he does get lost to TJ surgery or something, then they don’t pick up his options.
I agree. Maybe if it was the 2012 version of Gio. But his stats have been declining over the past 3 seasons. And with the current projected rotation, the Jays don’t need another LHP in the rotation.
Sanchez has a much higher ceiling than either Storen or Gio as well.
Besides, at this moment in time, the Jays have nobody to replace Revere. Saunders hasn’t proven he’s healthy and productive, and Pompey isn’t ready (and may never be “ready” to play in TO).
Losing Revere would also leave the Jays with no leadoff hitter.
Sanchez also has a very low chance of reaching his ceiling, unless he is able to develop some of his secondary pitches, which being in the bullpen isn’t allowing him to do. If he goes to the rotation, he will struggle again until he can get his walks and secondaries under control, which is something that the Jays can’t afford to have in their rotation this year. .
And the Jays are a better team with either Saunders or Pompey in the outfield. And Revere is not a leadoff hitter either. Even with his best offensive season last year, his .342 OBP was 5th on the team and his overall offensive production among next year’s returnees was only ahead of Tulo (who I think we can reasonably agree will be better next year) Pillar, Barney, Goins and Thole. Why are we giving him the most at bats?
Sure, Sanchez will struggle. No doubt. But his projected ceiling and low cost is still better than what Storen will be in the future (2-3 years from now).
And yes, I wasn’t specific enough. I didn’t say Revere was a good leadoff hitter. But he is the best option the Jays have right now. Pompey doesn’t seem able to handle the pressures of playing in his hometown. And Tulo, who hopefully will return to his norm, is not a leadoff hitter. Gibby doesn’t want him to hit #1, Tulo doesn’t want to hit #1, the fans don’t want him to hit #1.
And Revere gets the same average of 4 AB’s per game as everyone in the top 5 gets.
These are AL averages from 2009, but still fairly accurate for plate appearances by lineup position:
1st – 762
2nd – 743
3rd – 725
4th – 709
5th – 693
6th – 675
7th – 657
8th – 638
9th – 618
Ideally, Revere should be hitting 6th, after Colabello and before Martin, Pillar and Goins. His slap hitting single abilities will drive home the double hitters before him, and his base stealing is optimized in front of other singles hitters.
Tulo’s 26 games batting first shouldn’t be the end of him hitting there. and in my opintion Gibby was right to have him hit there, Tulo’s problems after coming over from Colorado were still there when he was hitting 5th too, so it had nothing to do with his position in the batting order.
It’s also hard to argue that Pompey and Saunders are better in the outfield. Saunders hasn’t proven that he’s healthy or that he can handle playing anywhere close to 81 games on the turf.
And Pompey was such a defensive liability that he was sent down to the minors.
Pompey wasn’t a defensive liability. On a per inning basis in CF last year, he put up better numbers than Pillar. I’m not saying that he is the better CF, but he certainly wasn’t a defensive liability. Fans got on him because of a couple misplays, but overall he was pretty good. Being moved to LF was bad for his psyche, and he brought it out to the field with him then, and his 49 innings out there were not good. But I have no reason to believe that he won’t be better next year, as he possesses the tools to be good, was good in his short stint in CF last year, and was praised throughout the Minors as an exceptional defender (he even won the GG award for all of Minor League Baseball in CF in 2013).
As for Saunders, his general health is a question, but he is a good left fielder to run out there so long as he is healthy. When he gets injured, send out Pompey.
Yes, in the minors he was great. And one day, most likely with another team, he’ll be good to great in the majors. But he can’t handle playing in Toronto.
The fans didn’t get on him. He got into his own head. He admitted several times. There’s a reason why after being called up in September he spent most of his time pinch running.
It’s hard to argue that Pompey’s .968 fielding % is better than Revere’s 1.000.
Also, since I didn’t address the numbers you posted above, if you do the math the average PA per game of the top 5 is 4.48, or 4 PA/game.
(I owe MLBTR an apology. I didn’t proof-read my own post. Gotta love it when you stick your own foot in your mouth.)
Please provide me even one link to Pompey saying that he can’t handle playing in Toronto.
Why are we talking about fielding percentage as the only fielding stat, or even a useful stat in general?
And why are you rounding 4.48 down to 4? If we’re rounding, everyone gets the same number of plate appearances every game.
You can look up several interviews where Pompey talks about 2015 being a rollercoaster and him getting in his head and being afraid to make mistakes. He talks about the pressures of playing in front of so many friends and family members in several interviews as well.
And I rounded down because that’s how math works. And no, everyone in the top 5 gets an AVERAGE of 4 PA/game. Batters 6-9 get an AVERAGE of 3 PA/game. It’s pretty simple math.
Anyway, thanks for a good debate. I gotta go to work now.
torontosun.com/2015/04/22/blue-jays-outfielder-dal…
news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/toronto-blue-jays…
thescore.com/news/748935
Well, why does Angelos have an affinity for Davis?
Also, the O’s need a Right Fielder, neither Upton or Cespedes really do that.
SMH
Upton played right field all of his career, but moved b/c of Heyward/Kemp. Don’t think it’s out the question in a small park like Camden
Okay, but the O’s might not want to cough up a draft choice.
This. Upton is a RF, period.
For now. I think he is a great pick up for the O’s, but if I were a NL team with someone at LF I’d be very wary.
Cespedes athletic
Cespedes is but he is an inconsistent fielder.
I will take Upton over a 1st round pick.
If Cespedes can be serviceable in both LF and CF, I’m pretty sure he could handle RF.
Depends on his arm strength, which I don’t know. In CF you can relay to the shortstop for plays at the plate
Are you not aware that Cespedes has probably the strongest OF arm in the game?
i thought gardner for gio was a decent offer
Gardner out of yankee stadium has no pop. 1 HR every 22.5 games? Nats can do better.
There’s more to baseball than HR’s.
Like subpar base running skills? Declining defense? Terrible 2nd halves?
Subpar base running skills? Brett Gardner was 9th in all of baseball in 2015 in BsR. Please look up things before you speak
Declining defense and Terrible 2nd halves you are right.
Still a league average bat. Gio has a lot of injury uncertainty. Seems pretty close to fair if that’s where the Nats want to go.
I think so too. Maybe Yankees thrown in a prospect too.
Acccording to Cashman their rotation is “full”, which I don’t buy.
I’m fascinated by the conversation about trading Papelbon only for a “good return”. GIven the difficulties that Philly had in trading him–not just his salary, but Papelbon himself, why would Rizzo think that people would back up the truck? Papelbon may have the most value to a contending team–Washington.
I can’t imagine any team taking on Papel bond with his disposition issues
Me neither. I don’t see any other team wanting to add this cancer to their clubhouse, especially if they are in contention. Even if not in contention, though, that would be a bad example to set for the youth of a rebuilding team.
If you are going to be a free agent after 2016, i guess you pray that you get traded during the season so that there isnt a draft pick tied to you and there isnt a restriction on the number of teams interested in signing you
MLB needs to fix that-
i get that the idea that a team like Toronto cant get a first round pick for losing Price after just trading for him, but the fact that signing Price as an FA doesnt cost you a first round pick, but Ian Kennedy would, is just silly.
All FA’s who sign above a certain dollar level should cost a draft pick, with high dollars meaning a higher pick lost. But you only gain one if you lose a FA you’ve had in your organization for 2 or more years.
I like that option. K
I wish the Orioles could move on from Peter Angelos.
Kind of the hope for all Oriole fans…club won’t seriously contend until that happens. He’s consistently ranked as one of the worst owners in all of sports.
Remember how, in 1993, everyone thought he was the great local savior?
How about storen to the Giants?
Sure. Get on that, Washington!
Maybe you could suggest a trade? Otherwise, sign Clippard.