With many — but not all — of the top free agent arms now gone from the market, the Rays appear to be ramping up discussions involving their pitchers. Tampa Bay has long been said to be willing to listen on its array of starters and late-inning relievers, though it hasn’t made any deals since shipping Nate Karns to the Mariners to kick off the winter’s activities.
Here’s the latest:
- The Rays are engaged in “’many’ active trade conversations” involving pitching, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reported yesterday on Twitter. It seems as if the club’s previous talks, which appeared to have some steam during the Winter Meetings, have been re-joined now that the market has gained additional clarity.
- Indeed, Tampa Bay has “picked up the pace” on discussions, ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick tweets. The team is still holding conversations involving top relievers Jake McGee and Brad Boxberger as well as various starters. The one name that clearly is not in play is staff ace Chris Archer.
- The Cubs have remained in “constant contact” with the Rays, reports Jim Bowden of ESPN.com (audio link). It’s previously been suggested that Chicago could have interest in Alex Cobb, but Bowden hints that Jake Odorizzi could make a nice fit for Chicago in a deal. The hang-up, though, is that the Cubs are trying to swing a deal without giving up Jorge Soler, Javier Baez, or other major league pieces.
Rays, may I introduce you to the Rockies. Rockies, these are the Rays. I think you two will get along great.
I say dw worry about Theo If they don’t bend go see the Rockies. You want Bez. Ok will give Bez n a prospect for Odo n Magee. Or go some where else. Really I wouldn’t trade no one. Keep our farm keep Bez n Jorge n either wait till trade deadline when we know if we even need a pitcher or someone to fill in m then maybe trade. But if the Cubs are still worried hell we the trades. Don’t give in. Clev not trading. SF silent. We don’t need an ace m none are aval n e way. N TB playing head games. So go to Rockies. Pay the money m sign Gallo
I’m sorry but does this post come with a secret decoder ring?
Hahaha
What would a Cubs trade for Odorizzi look like without giving up Soler or Baez? Torres, McKinney, Johnson?
rays are not going to trade one of their pitchers for prospects we are only looking for good mlb hitters for our pitching
That’s all fine and dandy, but besides Baez and Soler, along with the untouchables of Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, what kind of mlb ready pitching can the Cubs provide?
HItting*
@kayrall why would the rays want pitching from the cubs? Underwood, Cease, and Edwards are their only true mlb potential pitchers and all 3 look like 4-5 starters or a middle relief option
The cubs could trade Vogelbach + Baez for one of the rays pitchers.
So much no. Baez isn’t getting traded unless it’s for a much better trade package.
the cubs arent going to get a much better pitcher without trading their farm system…
I think that’s the problem. The Rays want an MLB ready bat, Soler or Baez, while the Cubs would rather trade prospects further away.
I still think if the Cubs added Soler in a deal with the Rays, they would be wise to get Desmond Jennings back for CF. Could move Heyward back to RF in that scenario.
That would be dumb on the Cubs part. That would be giving up their #1 and #2 ranked prospects in Torres and McKinney respectively, and also giving up probably their most promising starting pitcher prospect in Johnson. My guess is that either McKinney or Torres and someone like CJ Edwards would get the deal done. That’s a nice haul for a SP who has yet to throw 170+ IP in the major leagues in a single season.
IMO – and that opinion being from a biased Cubs fan, I think the team would be better off trading for Cobb. He’ll be cheaper since he is coming off TJ surgery and his future is uncertain as a result. That and the fact he won’t be pitching until the second half of the season since he had the surgery just last May….. he might not even pitch this year yet. Cobb at age 28 already should be pretty cheap. As a 28 year old he has yet to start more than 27 games in a season….. seems as though health has been an issue for him his whole career. Honestly though, the only pitchers on the Rays from the 2015 season that really interests me and I wouldn’t care who the Cubs gave up for him is Archer…… yeah it would suck trading for a piece that was originally your own, but so be it. Either him or Snell or Honeywell. Those are the only 3 that really makes me interested. Snell and Honeywell are highly touted prospects but are just that, unproven prospects. While they’d be expensive they won’t/shouldn’t be as expensive as Odorizzi or Cobb. I’d trade McKinney and Vogelbach for either Snell or Honeywell. That gives the Rays two pretty much ML ready top prospects to play the OF and 1B/DH in McKinney and V-bach. I seriously think Vogelbach as a prospect is severely underrated too so the value they are getting is still pretty damn high for an unproven pitching prospect.
I would be trying to pry Matt Moore from them. The guy was brilliant before injuries set him back. He could be the come back player of the year if healthy and consistent. He’s only 26 too.
his price is said to pretty high as they still believe he can become the guy he was before injuries
I think they would trade Matt More and/Or Jake Odorizzi for CarGo or a different outfielder, maybe a 3 team deal may come into play, I would really like a Deal with the Royals, Rays, and Rockies for a deal of pitching and outfielders, that’s my thought
Rays aren’t trading both for cargo and odrizzi in Colorado is a big mistake as he’s a pop fly guy. Rays don’t take cargo because they never pay anyone cheapskates
If the Cubs are insistent that their top guys are all untouchables, you do have to give to get, then I see the Rays going after the Rockies in a trade instead. Makes much more sense imo from how they match up
As a cub fan I agree. Maybe they are feeling out rays and hoping they will take 4-5 prospects. When they realize they have to part with soler or Baez they will? If rather lose Baez then soler. If trading soler hope we sign fowler back. Torres, Almora,McKinney candlerio ,contreras are top hitting /fielding prospects
If the Cubs are going after Odorizzi n Bez has to be in the deal then you take MaGee too. But really Clev held their guys. No ones selling an ace. N SD vanished. Just keep what u got trade no one maybe sign the other pitcher on the market n spend the bucks. Let’s go. Then see what’s happening by trade dead line to fine tooth any needs for post season. My thought. Or give what we have n wait till trade dl.
The beautiful thing here is the Cubs don’t NEED any of these guys. It’s a luxury that they seem to only want if they get them at their price, not the Rays. I love the strategy behind it.
exactly. the cubs have all the leverage at this point. either the rays take the deal on the cubs terms or no deal.
I’d hardly say that as the Rays are in the same boat. They don’t need to trade any of these guys either. Odor, McGee and Boxberger still have a couple years of control left and none of them are too expensive for the Rays. They are simply looking to see if anyone will bite on their price.
i would argue the rays need offense more than the cubs need pitching
I would argue that the Rays do not need to trade their pitching for offense in order to be competitive this season. The Rays have one of the best pitching staffs, bullpens, and defenses in the American League and they will be in a lot of games even if they are only scoring 3.5 runs a game. Obviously, the Rays would love to improve their offense, but they are not going to trade away their pitching unless they are getting an impact bat back. Just like the Cubs do not want to sit around and see if pitching prospects are going to workout, the Rays are not going to trade a proven MLB pitcher for minor bat that may work out. They already did that once with Myers… And only because they could not afford Shields anymore, and that is not the case in this situation.
Colorado fans are dreaming they don’t match up well with the Rays at all , cargo makes to much money for them and the other two are platoon type guys which they have plenty of. They want young controllable hitting
You’re dreaming actually. Dickerson would be the Rays best hitter by miles.
The same Dickerson who’s OPS 1.000+ in Colorado and .735ish on the road? Now if the Rays played at Coors Field there would be some value there.
Check his splits he can’t bring coots with him
Yes a .244 batting average away from coors makes dickersons value basically a platoon hitter, and the splits are similar for Charlie Blackmon although I don’t know the exact number
And then we go back to extreme home to away splits. And Longo is by far the Rays best hitter and would still be the Rays best hitter
I think Rays pitchers are also praying they don’t match up well w. the Rockies, lol.
Rays could possibly do Cargo if the Rockies took back Loney plus whatever pitchers the Rays offering (Loney and Mcgee alone offset 11M of the 17M owed Cargo). As a Rays fan I’d love for them to make an offensive splash like that. Being a Rays fan…I know they wont.
Why would the Rays want to give up Loney? His bat is average but they like his defense and he’s signed cheap. The Rays don’t want Cargo. The Rays want young cost controlled players.
The Rays have been shopping Loney all off season. For his production he costs too much .
It would make sense because he’s has one year at 8 mill but not in a trade like that. You can get better overall for cheaper.
because we have morrison and richie shaffer and the rays have been shopping loney for awhile now to open up a spot for shaffer
If the Rockies take back that much money you’re expecting a tremendous return. It wouldn’t be Loney and McGee. The teams don’t match because the Rays are looking for more of the controllable players and a couple of them.
I agree…it wont happen..Just saying cost wise there is a plausible option
I think it’s plausible if there’s a third team involved. I’m just wondering who the Rays are serious about parting with. Haven’t heard much about Orodizzi and continued contract talks. I wonder if they are truly just shopping relievers. You have to figure they aren’t going to sell low on Cobb and Moore. Plus if Moore has a great first half he pretty cheap and will be enticing. I think they can still work something with Odorrizi. With a wild card spot I think they have enough pitching to keep them in it.
Curious what Fays fans think is a fair price from the Cubs to get Odorizzi and McGee?
I would imagine they would want Baez and two other prospects but that won’t be happening. Every fan is a little delusional about what their players are actually worth but rays fans seem to be on the more realistic side from everything I have seen so far. I imagine if that trade gets done without Baez/soler it looks like: Torres, candelario, McKinney, vogelbach, and a lottery ticket starter like Dylan cease. I doubt the Rays would do that but this Cubs front office has been known to fleece teams pretty bad so this remains a possibility, although a long shot and maybe best case scenario for cubs
i wouldn’t exactly call that a fleecing. that’s a volume package with some high upside talent going back to TB. it reminds me a lot of the garza deal and i think the rays got the better end of that one in the end.
Rays fan swill be extremely disappointed if the return does not include MLB ready talent.
The Rays front office won’t trade a pitcher without getting a bat in return. There is no reason for them to. They can’t sign a power bat, so they are wanting to get one from a position of power. Which is their pitching. No point for them to get a piecemeal trade for a player they could trade elsewhere and get what they want.
Rays fans pretty much are on par though with what the team is looking for. Most like the idea of Baez or Solar. But don’t see it happening because the Rays are stuck at what they want, and the Cubs don’t want to feel like they are giving up too much.
it’s not that the cubs don’t want to feel like they’re giving up too much, they just know they don’t have to. the cubs can go into the season as is and contend for a championship. the rays however need to acquire some offense before the season starts. the cubs have all the leverage. i’m not saying the rays should give in to the cubs demands because that likely doesn’t help them much in 2016. i’m saying the rays should probably look elsewhere if they want big league bats.
The Rays are not going to deal away controllable MLB pitchers and not get a MLB bat in return. If the Cubs want a solid MLB pitcher, like the Rays have, then they have no option, but to give up a MLB or find a third team to deal with in order to get the deal done. I do not know why the Cubs hold the leverage in the situation because they want MLB pitchers and the Rays want MLB bats. Seems about equal to me and neither team needs to make a move to be competitive in 2016.
I think the hangup with cubs/rays trade proposals is that fans think guys like Baez & Soler are MLB bats. No they are not- at best they are lottery tickets. I beg a person to please explain how players without proving squat in MLB would somehow excite the Rays. Maybe volume would work, like Baez, Soler, Schwarber, Torres, McKinney, & Contreras for a pitcher. Again there is still no guarantee any of those players becomes useful.
wow talk about overvaluing your own guys. there isn’t a pitcher on the rays roster worth that, not even archer… schwarber, soler and baez are all on the man 25 man mlb roster, hence the term “mlb bat”… their value is tied up in their potential, but they aren’t prospects anymore. that said, the cubs would never deal that much talent for a 3 starter (at best) and a BP arm. you’re talking about 3 big league starters plus their top 2 prospects and another top 5 guy. that’s not realistic at all unless we’re talking sonny gray plus more coming back.
Soler is an mlb bat, and the ceiling of a multiple all star player. His .474, 3hr, 1.708 ops in the postseason PROVED his ability to hit mlb pitching and his ceiling. His problem has been staying healthy. Baez is a bit more of a wildcard, but he is a plus defender at many positions (aka zobrist) and if he figures things out he has a high ceiling. They both excite the entire league so that’s why they would excite the Rays. You’re pitchers outside of archer are also “wildcards” as the best ones have injury histories and the middle tier guys are 3s at best. The Cubs don’t need a starting pitcher, so they don’t have to meet a ridiculous asking price and if that means they part ways then so be it. But soler is a clear mlb bat with many years of cheap control that most rational rays fans would love to have.
odorizzi doesnt have an question marks and has a good amount of team control and is on his way to being a very good pitcher
You just accented my point. Soler had a few dozen nice ABs in the postseason. Cool. He also has had some serious struggles. Now factor in that he is ALWAYS INJURED. Cool. How does any of that add up to proven allstar?
Baez looks completely fooled at the plate in every single AB. Again, nothing proven.
Explain to me again why teams should trade a guy like Carrasco for this package of potential? Or even a mid-tier starter. Tough sell to a fanbase outside of north chicago.
because trades involving only prospects for established big leaguers happen quite frequently. soler and baez have tons of value based on their upside alone and have shown some success at the big league level (albeit a small sample).
did baez look lost when he hit .289/.325/.408? no, he didn’t. did he look lost when he took lackey deep to the oppo field in the playoffs? no, he didn’t.
do you remember when the cubs dealt a group of prospects for a 27 year old #3 in matt garza? yeah, it happens.
That would be an incredible overpay by the Cubs to the point it would rival the recent Miller deal.
Threedick do you honestly think Baez, Soler, Schwarber, Torres, McKinney, and Contreras for any 2 of the Rays pitchers is a fair deal? That’s 2 young starting outfielders both of which have multiple cost controlled years left, 1 young cost controlled utility guy that would start on most teams, and 3 top 100 prospects. Not to mention one of those prospects is at catcher one of the toughest positions to find in baseball. That deal would get Fernandez from Miami and Ozuna and minor leaguer or 2. I’m being realistic and even I know as a Cubs fan that the pitching market is hugely overvalued right now. If I were the Rays and the Cubs approached me with a deal involving Candelerio, McKinney, Vogelbach and Edwards I would have to seriously consider for Odorizzi. That’s 4 high ceiling guys. I know that the Rays want major league bats which is why I ultimately don’t see a deal getting done, but a high volume package like that would seriously get me thinking.
threedick clearly doesn’t have a grasp on fair trade value in MLB although he clearly thinks he does.
Rays want Baez. And i doubt a trade will go through if they dont get him. So i think Baez and almora for odorizzi
The Cubs don’t need to give up Soler or Beaz they’re blocked minor leaguers are excellent make the deal and trust they got the kids coming up.
They will though if they keep entertaining the idea of a trade. They wouldn’t keep coming up in rumors if there wasn’t a option of either being included in a deal.
There the same n e way. Keep everyone. I keep everyone n just sign V Gall
Opps typo Y Gallidao
Pull the mad Hungarian out if retirement. Sign for the min. He shocks the world win CY Young. Goes 32-0 with an era of 0.02 with 270 strikes outs.
The Cubs need another starter before the season starts. I’m not moving Soler or Baez….yet. Perhaps at the trade deadline . Doug Fister still out there, Bronson Arroyo and Tim Lincecum coming back off injuries. I’d do an incentive laden deal with one of those guys. Seasoned vets who know how to pitch. While it looks like Adam Warren could be a rotation piece based on last year with the Yankees, they may prefer him in a bullpen role. If Lester, Arrietta, or Lackey go down, we’re in trouble. They need more.
no they don’t. arrieta, lester, lackey, hammel, hendricks, warren, wood, cahill, and richard is plenty to start the season with. if they need another starter they can trade for one later.
Don’t necessarily disagree downsouth but you never have enough pitching.
I agree , if they are positioned well at the trade deadline, a move will likely be made.
Hammel was good first half, not so hot second half. I know he had an injury. I like Hendricks but he runs hot and cold and doesn’t have blow them away stuff.
Warren I think is the sleeper in the mix. Cahill was good late last year, can he duplicate those results ? No one really wan’t him last year when the Cubs picked him up.I’ve always liked Wood but he too can be inconsistent, same with Richard. I just want more depth.
i agree that you can never have enough pitching, but the cubs have more quality SP depth than many big league teams already. cahill, wood and richard have their questions as starters and that’s why they’re 7th, 8th and 9th on the depth chart. i can’t think of a team that doesn’t have questions surrounding their SP depth, that’s why those guys are depth and not in the rotation in the first place. honestly i don’t know what they would do with some of these guys if they sign another starter. the roster is pretty full as is, they would have to try to dump hammel, wood, cahill or richard and their salaries or send hendricks back to AAA. i don’t see any of those as viable options at this point. it would make more sense for the cubs to part ways with one of these guys if they’re not performing at the mid-point of the season IMO.