Here’s the latest from PNC Park…
- Andrew McCutchen is under contract for two more seasons and the Pirates have a $14.5MM club option on him for 2018 that is right now a lock to be exercised. Even with up to three years of control remaining, however, ESPN’s Buster Olney (subscription required) believes the Bucs should open negotiations with McCutchen’s agents this spring in order to give both sides some idea if an extension is even possible. The Pirates would have to offer a deal well beyond their usual comfort zone just to have a chance at locking McCutchen up past his age-31 season, and McCutchen would have to be willing to accept something below market value. If there’s no common ground, Olney suggests Pittsburgh should start seeing what they could get for McCutchen in a trade, perhaps even as early as this summer.
- Mark Melancon’s $10MM projected arbitration salary has made him a trade candidate this offseason, though Travis Sawchik of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review wonders if the Pirates have saved enough money in other transactions to be able to afford keeping the closer in 2016. With the Bucs already suffering notable losses in the rotation and infield, Sawchik argues that the club could retrench around its excellent bullpen rather than trading from an area of strength.
- How good, in fact, has Pittsbugh’s bullpen been? Fangraphs’ Jeff Sullivan notes that Melancon and Tony Watson were the two best relievers in baseball from 2013-15 as per the Win Probability Added (WPA) metric. The 2015 Pirates bullpen had a collective 11.8 WPA, the second-highest single-year total in history dating back to 1974. Watson is also arbitration-eligible this winter, and MLBTR projects him to earn $4.6MM in his second time through the arb process.
The McCutchen situation is tricky to say the least. If they’re out of it before 16’s trade deadline, I think they should flip him. That haul would be a nice one. I love watching their recent success, but they’re window might have closed. Just an opinion. He’s going to want a ton on an extension.
I would trade Matz or wheeler plus for mccutchen.
On melancon I see an opportunity for the mets to spend some money and not break the bank. I don’t know the Pirates needs but a two b prospect deal could work.
that would be a very nice haul for mcCutchen. with that said he is the face of that team there franchise player so he shouldn’t be traded ever. That would have been like the late 80’s cubs trading Ryne Sandberg still in his prime.
It’s just not that easy in today’s game. The game, players, money, etc. it’s all different. Barely any loyalty now as well. Just a guess, but I would peg Cutch wanting guaranteed money until he’s 37. Most likely at 20 – 25 AAV. Can the Pirates afford that? Very similar to the K.C. and Gordon situation. Except K.C. got their title. 37 Year old outfielders taking 20% – 30% of a team’s annual payroll are contracts that should be avoided.
I would liken the situation more to the Joe Mauer situation in Minnesota. Gordon is a nice player and all, but he is not MVP-caliber. year in and year out. McCutchen and Mauer (when he signed) are.
That being said, I think the Pirates ought to ride McCutchen as long as he is there because as soon as he is gone there will probably be a long period of losing again. Pittsburgh has proven in the past how difficult it is to pull off an Astros-type rebuild because they had top 10 picks for like 20 years in a row with very little production. Keep McCutchen through his contract and if you are out of it at the deadline in 2018, then trade him. He will still bring quite a haul I don’t understand the logic of trading McCutchen before then in order to get someone that, if they peak (highly unlikely in itself), might end up being as good as McCutchen. Of course a trade would be fun to talk about, but it wouldn’t be good for the Pirates or their finally re-energized fan base.
It’s funny how if works. At least in my perception. I use to fall on the side of the players, but these days I’m starting to resent their greed a bit. If I were a GM (Ha! Fat chance), I would never guarantee that kind of money to a 37 year old position player.
As fans all we get to see are the crazy high numbers of the player salaries and think that the players are getting excessively greedy by asking for more, but really it’s the owner’s greed that is too high. Even with these high salaries, players earn a lower % of the league revenue than ever.
The owner’s greed is too high? This is America where greed rules. Greed is what this country was founded on. The original settlers were greedy and took all of the Natives land. The robber barons of the 1800’s were greedy and built immense fortunes on the backs of their workers. Greed is still just as important today because one of the greediest men in America is a leading candidate for President despite all of his character flaws. Everyone is greedy because of the fact that any one of these people (players and owners) could live very comfortably on one year of Daniel Murphy’s recently signed contract. Seriously, the guy signed a $37 million contract and people are saying he didn’t get enough. Seriously think about that and compare it to your or your mom and dad’s yearly salary. This whole game is ruled by greed on both sides and we have just accepted it. Neither side is truly hurting unless you are thinking of the sides as owners/players vs. the fans. Then you can find a side that has truly gotten the shaft.
I should clarify. I didn’t express myself properly. I’m referring to players who expect a salary in their 37+ seasons that at times can account for 30% of a club’s annual payroll. I realize it;s nowhere similar, but I’m reminded of Kobe Bryant’s contract with the Lakers. His skills are in no way on par with his salary greatly reducing the Laker’s ability to put a team on the court that can produce wins. I have no problem with players who are face of franchise types that are overpaid a bit, but to what extent? As a fan, if it affects management’s ability to field a productive team, I get a little frustrated. Usually because of the lies on both sides. Billionaire owners tend to say they can’t afford it, and the millionaire players tend to say it’s not about the money………..it;s about winning. If it really isn’t about the money, then why do I constantly hear the phrase “It’s not about the money”? Anyhow, I’m from St. Louis. Maybe it’s still a bit of lingering resentment over Pujols.
Of course I could be completely wrong about the entire situation. Maybe Cutch is the type to not demand a salary detrimental to the club for his later years. Maybe gets WS title or two, and retires as possibly the best known Buc of all time, and the player most responsible for bringing a winning culture back to the Pirates. That would be awesome indeed.
Cutch is deffentley up there with the top Pirates in there history. If they can win a freaking World Series Tytle after all thoses years of LOSEING then he will be in the top 3
McCutchen would be a really nice
fit in center field for Dodgers.
He won’t be cheap.
Or it would be like the Padres trading Adrian Gonzalez in his prime
The conversation would start with Matz and probably include multiple other A-chip prospects. Wheeler would simply be a throw in at this point.
At this point Wheeler’s value is low, so he needs a solid showing….but I expect him to come back as a solid #2. I’d love the Mets to hold onto all of their arms for at least ’16,
McCutchen would be a great target, but the Mets are more likely to trade Harvey after ’16, who isn’t a good match w PIT.
thats nowhere near enough, its matz and wheeler as a starting point. people may talk about control, but matz isn’t proven, neither is wheeler. and you are getting a top 3 player in the game year in year out the past 3 seasons. especially because matz doesnt even have number 1 starter upside. the reality is the pirates window is actually just opening, now all of their top talent is major league ready. with glasnow as a starter and tallion and polanco making forward striders they can begin to peak. that being said after this year i would begin to listen to offers on him so they can extend their window past what it is now. slide marte or polonco to center because its easier to find a corner man. .
Katz doesn’t have #1 upside?!
Mets and their fans are he best at overvaluing their players. They act like all there pitchers are proven aces.
All the scouts say Matz has #1 upside. He also has prospect pedigree. It doesn’t make sense for the Pirates to trade for pitching, though.
I’m sure you would want to, but that plus better include deGrom or Syndergaard or I’m betting no deal. Seriously, you had Carlos Gomez for Wheeler and you think you can just get a much better player in McCutchen for him?
Wheeler+ would be a steal, even if included Smith, Rosario, and more. Those last two are the Mets’ top position prospects.
Although I agree, it’s for the opposite reason: their window should open its widest in 2017, when they should have all their young studs in the rotation. Moreover, the system outfield depth is amazing, so to get maybe some high infield prospects or more pitching for Cutch would absolutely be welcome.
Cool. I’m not really up on their farm system. If they’re filling that pipeline with big talent, good for them. Love small market club success.
The Pirates system is jammed with big name prospects. Pitchers Taillon and Tyler Glasnow are at the latest probably ready by early next year. OF Austin Meadows is a top 5 OF prospect and Josh Bell is the #1 1B prospect. Both of these guys should be ready in the next two years as well. All 4 of these guys rank in the top 50 prospect on mlb.com.
Why not just use him until he’s 31 and let him walk if need be.
An old mccutchen won’t be that great anyways so just ride out the 3 good years left.
No reason to ever trade him even if they can’t resign him. Doubt he’d leave anyways.
The situation will dictate that. Obviously, I don’t know the future. My point is that say Pittsburgh is completely out of the race in 16′ and they have a nice pipeline of talent expected to be producing at MLB levels in 18′ or 19′. They could go into retool mode. Like I said, it’s a tricky situation. Small market, perennial losing clubs have recently figured out how to right their ships. Which is impressive. The next step is how do they continue that success without the resources to keep these guys around.
The reason to trade him is so the Pirates get something in return for him leaving, making their team better for ever longer.
small market teams can’t just expect an mvp to walk and continue competing the same. they need to maximize value in every avenue to compete with a team like the cubs who just bought a 7 win upgrade. trading mccutchen and hitting on the pieces they get for him mitigates the loss, as opposed to a draft pick having a ~50% shot of ever seeing the majors.
Let’s see, Pirates have H-Ram & Austin Meadows ready by that point. Bell, Polanco & Marte will be absolutely disgusting by that point.
Cole,Taillon, Glasnow all disgusting by that point.
I don’t see any reason we’d hurt without McCutchen.
However trading him for what would end up being between C+ and A value isn’t a risk I’d want to take at any point.
Even a half a year of McCutchen is more worth it than taking a risk.
And “taking a risk” could just be picking top-5 again without Cutch. Something that would restart the whole process again.
The window hasn’t closed. It has not yet been fully open. The best Pirates team of this era has not taken the field.
Cutch was better a couple years ago than he is now. Why?……Who knows. Has he started his decline? Has he been “banged up” a bit? Or is it the normal “ups & downs” of a career, and it’s about to swing upward again. It’s way too early to trade him this winter. I agree that, if the Pirates are well out of the race in July (doubtful), that they should at least gauge the interest other teams have in him. That 1/2 year should provide some valuable insight to “which direction he is headed”. Other teams will be watching closely to see if he can get back to where he was, or continues to decline. It’s paramount that they get a solid return for him, and not “let him walk” (where they will get just 1 draft pick, with a 15% chance that they get a quality player back). They definitely need to either extend him beyond where the team is typically comfortable, or trade him before his value declines. In 3 years, salaries will probably increase by at least 25%, which means that $20-25 million won’t be enough to keep him around. $30 million/year seems like the starting point to me. That’s way too much to pay him into his 377 yr old season, when you could trade him for several younger (future) stars at a much more reasonable rate. Let’s face it, the Pirates are not “spendy”…..and will need to continue to find young, controllable talent to fill the roster.
They have 3 more years of Cutch left to figure out what they are going to do about him.
I don’t think the window is closed at all.
This is still going to be a very good team, and with a bit of tinkering with the pitching staff, they could be better than last year.
Walker and Alvarez, although they were kind of fan favorites, will not be missed too bad.
There are better options available now, and in the near future at those 2 positions.
To have 3 years left on contract with one of the best players and suggest to explore trades is nuts. I’m glad Olney isn’t the Pirates GM!
Jerry Brown is an idiot. Just pardons another crime-ridden actor from jail. He’s been so bad for us in California. You know why celebrities get so many extra chances? Money and politics. Both buys them freedom. Okay, Jerry, so when Robert Downey Jr kills a guy during his next DUI or other run in with crime, what would you say to the poor victims family? Huh?
Jerry Brown has poisoned our water supply with less pure ground water, among other things.
We need a leader who will stick up for the poor and middle class, and not those billionaries and millionaries that can buy themselves freedom. Hmmm. Which presidential candidate is like that? Feel it baby! FEEL. THE. BERN!
Hey, this is a baseball site. Keep your political opinions to yourself or a political site.
This Great Country was founded on the premise that True Baseball Fans “Shall Not Mix Politics and Baseball”…….Please respect that and refrain from any attempt at swaying the preferences of the rest of us. That discussion has no place in this venue. Go to Facebook or Instagram to air your political campaign………Oh and…..Merry Christmas!
And this relates to the Pirates how?
Go on, I’ll wait.
Allow me to connect the dots for you. Donald Trump is the leading Republican candidate. For a day job he is a real estate developer known for large buildings (not quite skyscrapers). If he gets elected his first act as president will be to write an executive order to begin construction on an actual skyscraper to be built in every city in the U.S. with a population over 500. One of the main things needed to build these skyscrapers is good old American steel. And where is the epicenter, the beating heart if you will, of American steel? That’s right, Pittsburgh!! Now with all of that steel being made in Pittsburgh all of the jobs that have evaporated in the last couple of decades will return. Suddenly PNC Park will be sold out for every game. Every piece of merchandise will fly off the shelf. The Pirates will finally be able to bid on the David Price’s and Jason Heyward’s in free agency. The flood of money will quickly go to their head and they will outspend the Dodgers and Yankees combined!! They will trade for Mike Trout from the Angels and Clayton Kershaw of the Dodgers for cash considerations. Rumors of the cash considerations reportedly totaling one billion dollars for each player are confirmed true when Neal Huntington formally announced the trades in a press conference. Shortly there after the Pirates are given the entire Mets starting rotation when Robert Nutting puts the entire Madoff settlement debt on his American Express black card. When news of the new Pirates wealth reaches Scott Boras he offers his entire client roster to Huntington for 10% of all Pirates gross revenue for the year. A deal which Huntington quickly accepts and Boras comments with two words “a steal” Unfortunately, with the new Pirates 40 man roster Jung Ho Kang and Garrit Cole are sent to the minors for additional seasoning and after a lackluster 6 WAR season by McCutchen he is given his outright release. The Pirates go on to have baseball’s first undefeated season but are swept in the World Series by the Tampa Bay Rays and their team of AAAA players. Huntington as a sign of contrition declares his team has no heart and signs Vince PaPale to a bench spot. Unfortunately, Kris Bryant is sold to the Hiroshima Ham Fighters to make room on the 40 man. The Pirates finally get the drive and fire returned to every player and have another undefeated season in 2018. The win the world series by default when the Yankees sit out in protest at the size of the Pirates payroll.
Now you see none if this would have been possible if this guy had not brought politics to a baseball forum. I never would have heard of Donald Trump had he not been brought to my attention here. (I am assuming its a Trump supporter. I quit reading when I got to Jerry Brown) It’s not like politics are not forced down our throats on every other single website. Might as well destroy the last piece of baseball solitude that we have left. Because judging by how around only 45% of Americans actually go out and vote we all care about politics as much as the op.
Bad idea to start extension talks with McCutchen now. He’s coming off a down season, and you know his representatives aren’t going to give the Pirates a better deal because of that. They should at least wait to see if this is the start of his decline years before starting extension talks, and probably just let him walk away like the Cardinals did with Pujols. Pay for the prime years, let someone else overpay for the decline years.
This Great Country was founded on the premise that True Baseball Fans “Shall Not Mix Politics and Baseball”…….Please respect that and refrain from any attempt at swaying the preferences of the rest of us. That discussion has no place in this venue. Go to Facebook or Instagram to air your political campaign………Oh and…..Merry Christmas!
LOL…..Obviously that comment was in response to Matt Rox……..but somehow it got placed under Michael’s comment…….Weird…..:-/
Wow the Yanks did a great job drafting players in that 2006 draft.
Ian Kennedy (free agent)
Joba Chamberlain
Zach McAllister (now with the Indians)
David Robertson (now with the White Sox)
Mark Melancon (Of course with the Pirates)
Dellen Betances (with the Yanks)
Great class that’s for sure
Pirates trading McCutchen in his prime, would be like trading Bonds in his prime. Oh wait…they did.
The Pirates did not trade Bonds. He left as a free agent.
his “prime” started at 36 anyway.
It’s funny that people forget that Bonds won 2 MVPs (and should have won a third) with Pittsburgh. He was not a product of steroids. He was an already all time great player that made a very bad decision based on the jealousy of the attention and love McGwire and Sosa were getting in 1998 while fueled by PEDs. The sad thing is that even when Bonds outdid them, he still wasn’t nearly as beloved, nor did he get as much mainstream attention (at least not positive attention), as McGwire and Sosa outside of SF. Irony worth of an O’Henry story.
Without Bonds in it, the Hall of Fame deserves an asterisk next to its own name.
Bonds left as a FA, dopey!
The New Chat Format doesn’t seem to have the capacity for us to Edit or Delete our entries, once submitted……..am I missing something?,….or has that option been eliminated? If so…..Why???………I liked being able to adjust what I typed, or fix a spelling error noticed after I posted something.
Id love to see Cutch in a Cardinal uniform!!!!!
I’m pretty sure that even if the cards offered wacha, piscotty, Jamie Garcia, and they’re A prospects for cutch. We’d still say no and take a worse deal to make him go to anyone but the cubs/Cards. At least I’d hope so. I hate those teams. Cubs being my least favorite just becuase of they’re fan base so ignorant and cocky cuase they had one good year.
If McCutchen ever ends up leaving the burgh ill be really upset I think he’s the kind of guy who should stick with Pittsburgh for his career, it’s not like they don’t have a chance to win there, they do, if they make the right moves trade wise and in the FA market, and if Glasnow, bell and tailon come into the bugs and do what their projected to, that team will be great.
In terms of melancon I see him being sent to Toronto or maybe Arizona, they both need a real closer and he could be a good fit
A few thoughts…
First, McCutchen’s current deal is widely considered among the most team friendly superstar contracts in the history of the game. Regardless how much Cutch loves Pittsburgh and how loyal/awesome he is to the community, I doubt he walks away from substantially less money to stay, again.
Second, a Gerrit Cole extension is already looking way more expensive that a new McCutchen deal given Cole’s agent is Boras, Cole is still young and he just finished 4th in Cy Young voting before even being arbitration eligible.
Third, even on the day he was drafted, Austin Meadows was pegged as a Cutch replacement and nothing has changed that perception.
Therefore I would pick up the option on his deal and see what you can get out of a trade for one season of Cutch at 14.5 million and if no trade materializes let him play and get a draft pick when he turns down the qualifying offer. No need to pay heavily for Cutch’s declining years which in turn prevents the financial ability to lock up Cole, or Glasnow, or Polanco (can’t keep them all anyway it unfortunately seems) and creates a long term log jam in the outfield blocking high level prospects in the system already.
No offense to Meadows, but Al Martin was once pegged as a Barry Bonds replacement as well. How’d that work out?
They are not going to lock up Cole regardless of whether McCutchen stays, nor should they. Pittsburgh is almost the exact opposite of my team, the Rockies. You can get a Justin Morneau-type pitcher that is on the downswing on a relatively cheap contract and bring them in and basically reset their clock and get a very productive year or two out of them. PNC Park is one of the best pitcher’s parks in the game, so you can always find people to pitch there. But just like the Rockies should hold onto any pitcher that can conquer Coors, the Pirates should hold onto a batter that has mastered PNC like McCutchen.
Al Martin was better than average most of his career though. Yeah no Bonds for sure. No Hall of Famer like Bonds should be but not what i would call a bust. Meadows might not be a drop in replacement but the pirates have enough depth and center fielders that can easily make it up to be above average at 1/10th the price.
I agree with Cole but probably for different reasons. With Boras as his agent there is no way they extend unless Cole tells him to specifically.
Living in Pittsburgh and following the Pirates all my life, I know they will not extend McCutchen. Paying the money it will take to keep him is not how they operate. I will hate to see him go but I believe trading him for a good return in his club option year, unless they have a real chance to win it all, is best. I want to see them win a World Series and I don’t care what moves they have to make to get that done. We as fans root for the logo. I’d rather see the Pirates win a Title and trade Cutch than keep him and continue to loose the wild card game. To let it be known, I believe Nutting can pay what it would take to keep or get star players, but he never will!
I there is a MVP HOF type player in baseball that would willing take less money it is Clutch McCutchen. I can’t imagian him on a “big market” team he was the player that started the turn around in Pittsburgh. He was the FIRST MVP in over 20 years FIRST Pirate to get 4 silver sluggers in row!!! if the Pirates can some how find good luck this year he could be on the team that makes the post season for the 4th year in a row!!!