At an annual fan event, Orioles executive VP Dan Duquette confirmed the club has pulled its $150MM offer to Chris Davis, tweets Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com. Talks have not been terminated, but Duquette implied it would be up to Davis’ agent Scott Boras to revisit negotiations. Duquette also stated that Davis has not been involved in the process – all talks have gone through Boras (this is typical but worth noting). For his part, Boras says he has been given no indication that talks are closed, per Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun (tweet).
Here’s the latest from the O’s including more information via Kubatko from their fan event.
- Duquette also commented on Jason Heyward’s contract structure (tweet). With regard to Heyward’s two opt-outs, “That kind of structure wouldn’t work for the Orioles.” While long-term contracts with opt-outs are becoming more popular as a means to keep average annual value in check, some teams may not be comfortable accepting the back-end risk if a player implodes unexpectedly.
- Also per Kubatko (tweet), Duquette will use some of the money budgeted for Davis on other players. However, the club probably will not spend all of it this winter. To me, that seems to rule out a pursuit of Justin Upton or Alex Gordon.
- If talks with Davis fall through, the O’s may turn their attention to Pedro Alvarez, tweets CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman. Alvarez offers many of the same characteristics as Davis, but with less defensive versatility. His left-handed power bat would be a good fit for the AL East. Camden Yards and Yankee Stadium are two of the best parks for left-handed home runs. The Brewers are also in on Alvarez.
- Orioles free agent Steve Pearce is “under consideration,” per Duquette (tweet). Entering his age 33 season, Pearce has compiled 5.6 career WAR over parts of nine campaigns. However, 4.9 of those wins were earned in his excellent 2014 season. He declined dramatically in 2015 over a similar number of plate appearances. He did fill a useful utility role by playing at first, second, and both corner outfields last season.
- Meanwhile, VP of baseball operations Brady Anderson is disappointed that Davis and reliever Darren O’Day reached free agency, writes Steve Melewski of MASNsports.com. “When you have him [O’Day], he makes it look so easy, you forget how hard it is and it can cost you millions of dollars. In Darren’s case, that is what happened. In Chris Davis’ case, the same thing is happening.” Anderson notes that small- and mid-market clubs have to be more successful in signing players to long term extensions.
jd396
Time for a salary cap.
charles stevens
Why? Teams with small payrolls are winning just as many games as the big markets. The Royals just played the Mets in the WS. Look up their payroll.
The NFL is a perfect example of how salary caps make it even harder for teams to keep their core together.
Polish Hammer
Yes, but the small market teams have to hope everything lines up to win it all and then can’t afford to maintain it. Teams like NY, LA and Boston can take a huge contract and dump it or eat it while a small market team gets buried by it and takes years to recover. Thing any small team can do what Boston did to unload huge contracts and move on like they did with trading them to the Dodgers a few years ago? If every other league can have a salary cap why not MLB? The good teams are still good teams in other leagues because they operate smartly.
cxcx
Fake scenario because a small market team wouldn’t have multiple $20m players in the first place.
eilexx
Baseball does not have a salary cap because the players don’t want one, and fight tooth and nail to avoid it. It’s also the reason MLB’s contracts are guaranteed and there are no limits on how long or for how much an MLB player can sign for. It’s up to him and his agent to negotiate the best deal for each particular player.
If the NFL players union had the same strength the MLB players union does, they wouldn’t have a salary cap either, but NFL and MLB players are of a different breed. NFL players get drafted and are immediately at the top of their sport, earning NFL money. MLB players spend years in the minors (most often) earning next to nothing, but also growing up and maturing. By the time they reach the majors are making huge money they’re usually older and more mature than NFL/NBA players, and aren’t just kids being handed buckets of cash—which they often blow. When you have to work harder and longer for your money you tend to appreciate it more, and realize that it can all go away; therefore, baseball players are probably more likely to have savings, and because of that can afford to fight MLB on a salary cap—even if that means sitting out a season. How many NFL players would be able to do that? Even the better paid of the league?
cadel 2
for one, that boston trade was Crawford and Beckett gone at the expense of losing Adrian Gonzalez, and in the end the prospects the Red Sox got back didnt pan out, they got 85% salary relief for it, its not as if the Dodgers ate those contracts for nothing at all im sure the Red Sox are trying to Dump Hanley but everyones asking for Boaegarts or Betts or both for the privilege.
also, im not sure a $110M payroll should be considered “small market” and somehow a $180M payroll has some massive advantage over Baltimore. 10 years ago the Yankees had a 10x payroll over Tampa bay, now LA has a 3.8x payroll over Miami, so the gap has gotten much much tighter between the top and bottom.
Gilman321
Agree
boxingj
What they really need is some kind of age/max year matrix. If it takes more than 6 years to sign Davis, I’m glad the Orioles move on. You can’t tell me that deal is going to look good at year 5, let alone year 7.
Big K / Big power guys do not age well. If it produces the entire contract in the first 4-5 years, great… but we shouldn’t be going into these deals looking at the first 2/3rds and expecting the full result.
phillysports215
Salary cap sucks
rickcwik
Amen. All the other sports have it. I would gladly accept losing one year of baseball (due to lockout/strike) to get a salary cap in baseball. With skyrocketing salaries comes skyrocketing ticket prices that drive the middle class, and their families, out of attending games in person. I’m old school, I enjoyed the reserve clause and players staying with their teams forever. Marvin Miller and sports agents (Boras) have priced out the common fan.
citycat
Typical Orioles offseason, a lot of used car salesman talk from DD and no action. First he said a top of the rotation starter which had no been dumbed down to a 3. Gordon would be a perfect Oriole fit in left, gritty player with a great glove but they won’t go there. Let 40 hrs walk last year and will let the same go again.
charles stevens
Signing free agents doesn’t equate to wins. It just makes people feel all warm and fuzzy until the team ends up sucking and the fans decide it’s time to fire the moron that spent all that money on a declining player.
The goal is to win the WS. Who cares who wins the offseason?
Mitch Augustyn
I agree with you Charles Stevens. look at the teams that made the big trades and signings. How much is it going to coat Boston to get rid of Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval. how long into last season did San Diego dump their manager. How about the Yankees and all that dead weight they have in Beltran, Teixiera, Sabathia and even Arod. Pretty close to $100M right there…not quite but pretty close. Remember Steve Pearce stepped up and bailed out the Orioles and Chris Davis in 2014; that and the pitching came up big. I think Chris Davis did not like us as much as we did him. Now he is off on his own.
cxcx
Ha, dead weight. Teixeira was the best player on the Yankees (a playoff team) last year and you call him dead weight. A-Rod, another of their top five players, too.
It will most likely cost the Red Sox nothing to get rid of Sandoval and Ramirez as they will likely not move them. They will likely just keep them and watch them have normal, productive years which 29 year old and 32 year old players tend to have following down years.
Mitch Augustyn
Teixiera has not played in more than 115 games since 2011. Since he came to NY he has been a .240 hitter while a .280 hitter with Texas, Atlanta and Angels. 8 year deal and 4 subpar incomplete seasons. I did not say dead weight you did. But those older players are blocking players like Bird. Yankees were barely a playoff team. They got three hits in that home playoff game with Houston. Shut out at home and if I remember right lost 8 of their last 9.
greatd
Agree with everything you’re saying but can you really think that the Orioles can compete with the talent they have right now? I’d fire Dan Duquette for not being able to put out a competitive team out on the field and also not being able to develop a farm that ranks close to last in most to all the sites I’ve seen do farm rankings.
Gilman321
Agree
arc89
Big mistake by Chris Davis. Most of the big spending teams have a top quality 1b on their team. Sounds like he is getting bad advice.
gomerhodge71
From Scott Boras? Bite your tongue!
greatd
You can’t blame a guy for wanting more money though.
Orioles should make up their mind if they want to contend or not quickly because
the markets not gonna wait for them to make a decision.
I’d consider a rebuild considering where they are at now.
They don’t have any building blocks beside Machado and
they’re not going anywhere with just him and an aging Adam Jones.
cxcx
I totally agree that a rebuild is appropriate but there’s no way they do it yet, Jones is their franchise player and big in the community and they will hold on to him and feebly try to stay competitive. They won’t deal him unless they have a disastrous year or two and he wants to leave.
The thing with baseball is that you don’t have to be one of the top teams on paper going into the season to have a shot at making the playoffs and wining the WS. And the Orioles are actually fine in most areas: great bullpen, good infield, potentially very good catcher, probably ok outfield once they add. Only major issue is the rotation which actually has an upside of being fine if everyone has good years. Obviously the downside is really low.
The way I’d go for it is to take advantage of the many centerfielders available to assemble a sick defensive outfield. They probably won’t (and shouldn’t) commit multiple years on new starters so I think they should try to sign say Span and Jackson [or Fowler or Parra) to play the corners. It would also give them some passable 1 and 2 hitters so they don’t have to make their 35 home run hitter lead off or put fringe players like de Aza and Parades at the top of the order. They could get two of those guys for the same AAV as Davis while committing half the years. Add a goon slugger like Alvarez and you have a balanced lineup with plenty of upside. If that nice defense could get hold some leads and them on to the great pen the O’s could be Royals light and have as good a shot as anyone.
mike156
This could be interesting. Baltimore says offer off the table. Boras, who wants as many bidders as he can get, says he’s been given no indication talks are closed. Baltimore doesn’t want to be used as a stalking horse. I don’t think Davis is coming back. He will have other offers, possibly better, and Boras will not want to accept anything close to what was on the table, to keep face. The O’s should move on. A lot of money is being spent on players out there. and if they want to be players in free agency, waiting for Boras probably isn’t smart.
jkos
Lost a lot of respect for Chris Davis through this, I guess that the fan base means nothing to him, only interested in stuffing his pockets. Time to move on……………..
Michael Macaulay-Birks
You guys act like he’s a homegrown player or something….this will be his last contract and I don’t blame him a bit for trying to get every penny coming his way
charles stevens
Do you honestly think any of these guys are playing the game with your best interest in mind? They do this to get paid.
Are you a jerk for taking a better job at a different company?
Michael Macaulay-Birks
Exactly, over the course of his time in Baltimore he’s had over 150 don’t run home runs, but only earned $26 million,The time to sign him might’ve been in his first arbitration year…..now he’s out there for the open better
billybeane
i agree with you saying youre not a jerk for taking a better job at a different company, but i dont think its a good analogy here because of the ridiculous amount of money the players get to begin with. what is the difference between $150 million and $180? normal people make a hell of a lot less than that in their whole lifetime and do just fine.
brianf
It’s a good analogy anywhere. Hate the argument that ‘real’ people do well making a lot less. Well…pro athletes generally don’t live a lifestyle the same as ‘real’ people. These guys are getting paid with the hopes that the future generations of their families are taken care of. Can’t blame any player for going to the highest bidder.
Michael Macaulay-Birks
Angelos has just as much money as anyone else in the league, he just chooses to cram a bunch of it in his pocket, and that’s one one way of doing business, The other way is to infuse all that cash that into your ball club so that you can build a perennial winner….once you’ve achieved that, everything takes care of itself
Gilman321
I’m not leaving 30m on the table, after taxes what is that. Hell thats money my family and kids kids could use
Hoosier_Oriole
30M, money his family and kids could use? I don’t know what you do for a living, but 30M is money my great-great-great-great-great Grandchildren could use. Do these numbers just numb people to how much money we are talking about here. 100Million dollars could make an easy life for many GENERATIONS! These figures are insane!!
cxcx
Why did you have a lot of respect for Davis before? Because of the home runs or the giant prayers of him around town or what? Certainly not for the strikeouts or the sub-Mendoza or leaving the fellas hanging during the ’14 stretch run due to his drug suspension.
I’m just confused as to why one would particularly respect a ballplayer in the first place and then why the person wound cease respecting him once he tries to get a market contract when he is a free agent.
gomerhodge71
Sounds like the same thing Boston fans said when Jon Lester left. Lester had been with the Red Sox from day one, went through his cancer scare, was worshiped by the fans. All of a sudden, Chicago showed interest, talked huge money and Lester broke off talks with Boston and sold his house. Loyalty left the building around the time Al Kaline retired. It’s all business now.
greatd
I can’t understand why the Orioles won’t try to rebuild.
Can anyone tell me why?
charles stevens
Scared of the fans abandoning the team? Management in denial?
Not sure what their tv contract situation is but it doesn’t help negotiations when you have a terrible product on the field.
greatd
Why try to compete now when. they don’t have a rotation?
They can’t get any help from the farm because they don’t have much there. (Bleacher report ranked their system 29th overall)
They obviously don’t want to spend for top talent.
I loved the Orioles when Cal Ripken was around, but
I just don’t get why they won’t rebuild.
They don’t have any building blocks besides Machado and their
core players Jones / Wieters / Jimenez are getting old.
I can’t really state for all the fans out there but I think they’d win more respect
if they traded these guys and Britton for younger assets and started a rebuild
baronbeard
That’s the issue with the AL East. It’s feast or famine. Every team has their own way of staying relevant. Draft, trade, or sign. Pick your poison. Baltimore had some great talent, and built a homogenous agenda within the organization. But contracts end, and pieces fall apart and then you look around and don’t have much left. They will need to build a better draft class. Extend Machado, and hope they can figure out a rotation soon. But they really have no choice but to rebuild.
You have no pieces in the minors to trade, only major league ready talent. Trade a few big pieces, get some good talent close to the majors.
cxcx
How is the AL East “feast or famine?” Last year the division was known for having four good-but-not-that-good (i.e. neither feast not famine) teams until Toronto randomly traded for two supergrass plus other key players. And the one actual “famine” team was supposed to be the feastiest team going into the season.
I expect the division to be middling again this year as well the teams one more rather bunched together. To summarize/more fully explain my point, here are the differences between best and worst team in each division last year:
NL Central:: 36 games
NL East: 27
NL West: 24
AL Central: 20.5
AL Central: 20.5
AL West: 20
AL East :15
baronbeard
Your chart shows what I’m talking about.
mehs
You lose all credibility when you list Jimenez as one of the core members of the Orioles. Jones 30, Wieters 29. Look at the deals being signed by players hitting free agency typically at about age 30. You left out Schoop, age 24, Tillman age 27, as core players. Starters in the farm system Harvey, In 2011 they were ranked 27th by bleacher report. That sure hurt them,
Hoosier_Oriole
What I would really like to know is this: How many years are we going to have to listen to Duquette tell us he’s going after starting pitching knowing full well he is not willing to play in the F/A market and has no prospects to pry one loose in a trade?
The definition of idiocy is: Doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results. Look this up in a dictionary it has:
see Dan Duquette among the definitions
greatd
Buck keeps on saying we need pitching as well.
Chris Tillman / Miguel Gonzalez / Ubaldo Jimenez / Kevin Gausman / Mike Wright.
None of these guys had an era under 4.11.
This isn’t enough.
Don’t know how others feel but tearing this all apart seems like the best option.
I think we need to get rid of Dan Duquette to get this done.
mehs
Tillman and Gonzalez both had ERAs in the 2’s or 3’s in each of 2012, 2013 and 2014 so it is possible they just had bad years. Look at Tillman’s second half numbers for 2015 as he was awful before a mechanics change and Gonzalez was injured. Wright and Gausman were rookies so there is plenty of room for improvement.
jimmyjack
I had no idea Brady Anderson was VP. He and Luis Gonzalez (among many many others, I know) only prove that steroids were great for the game. sportSCenter [on repeat] was my summertime baby sitter for several years. Brady and his awesome 90’s sideburns hold a special place in my heart, and he’s the reason that I think 2B should be hitting 50 bombs every year (I know it was only 1 year, but a very impactful one at 10 years old) THANKS A LOT BRADY!!!
I miss the good ol days…
jimmyjack
I want the old Oriole silhouette hat back too.
jimmyjack
“Silhouette” isn’t the right word. But I want the basic bird back for the majority of time. It’s one of my favorites and so much better than the smiling-bird caricature. In the end, the uniform is all that matters.