Jason Heyward says one reason he chose the Cubs over the Cardinals is that the Cubs’ young core is likely to be with the team longer than the Cardinals’ core is. “You have Yadier (Molina), who is going to be done in two years maybe. You have Matt Holliday, who is probably going to be done soon,” Heyward told reporters, including Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune. “I felt like if I was to look up in three years and see a completely different team, that would kind of be difficult.” Cardinals manager Mike Matheny says he believes in the core of his team and takes issue with Heyward’s comments, Rick Hummel of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. “I don’t blame him. But I don’t like it,” says Matheny. “I don’t think we have anything to apologize for in having a group like a Holliday, a Molina, a Wainwright. … [H]e’s a young player. But I can’t say I’m in any kind of agreement with that (Chicago) core being better than any kind of core that we have.” Here’s more from the NL Central.
- Elsewhere in Hummel’s article, Cards GM John Mozeliak expresses a bit of frustration that the Cardinals’ biggest offseason targets — presumably players like Heyward and David Price — opted to head elsewhere. “Our success has really come from our pipeline, and I think we’re really going to lean on that. The last month has been trying to play in the big-boy pool, and unfortunately we just didn’t end up getting it done,” says Mozeliak. “Sometimes it’s not always about what you’re doing. You need the other party to want to be there, too.”
- Jason Heyward’s mammoth deal with the Cubs got some reporters, including Bill Brink of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, wondering how much it might cost a club to sign Pirates outfielder Andrew McCutchen if he reaches the open market after the 2018 season. For his part, McCutchen doesn’t want to speculate on his own dollar value, but he did reaffirm his loyalty to Pittsburgh. “This is still a place I do want to be,” McCutchen said. “I love it here. If that’s something that they can do, that’s something they can do. I really can’t answer from their end. We’ll see what happens in the future.” Of course, as Brink points out, Heyward in 2015 and McCutchen in 2018 are two separate cases. Heyward got his monster contract, in part, because he is only 26 years of age. Following the 2018 season, McCutchen will be 32.
Zach Links contributed to this post.
As much as I like Cutch.
He’s starting to lose leg speed and his defensive war hasn’t been great.
I think he’ll be in the neighborhood of 10~16m per year for 4-5 years.
The way these contracts are going I would say he will get something like 125 over 5 years
thats where the team will start ,cutch will want 30 mil per for 6-7 years in 2018-19
You think he will only get 10-16 a year? Are you drunk? Dude will easily hall 25 a year
Yeah that’s nonsense, Cutch is getting well over 20M a year. He might take a slight discount to stay in Pittsburgh his entire career but even still thats going to mean like 20-25M a year. By 2019 he could easily get 30+ a year.
Actually, I think his value to Pittsburgh is higher than elsewhere, as he’s become the face of the franchise. He might actually get more there because he will sell more tickets. With the new emphasis on analytics, if he continues his downward trend, 20MM may be about right.
his defensive WAR is partially down because of Marte and now Polanco.
His legs are far from gone but by the time ’18 comes around… hard to say.. those nagging knee injuries may catch up with him.
Over the last 4 years, he’s been one of the top 5 hitters in baseball by wOBA or wRC+, behind only Trout, Cabrera, and Votto. Even if he has to move to a corner and doesn’t add value on the bases anymore, he can still be an elite player.
Okay let’s look at his numbers.
He had 23 home runs and 11 steals this year.
His defensive war dropped to -0.6.
He probably would have cost a lot more
when he was an automatic 20 – 20 guy with okay defense.
But if he keeps on declining at this rate.
He’s not gonna be a center fielder.
He’s not much of a base stealer already.
His power may come down a bit as well due to age.
Do you know what this is?
Nick Markakis with a slightly higher .obp
Markakis is not worth more than 10-16 m per year.
Please back up your statement before you label someone stupid please.
Your analysis of his numbers and declining ability is decent but it seems that you may not be considering the rising costs of such production the last few years. I think that many of the posters here may be saying that they expect the dollars paid out to rise significantly by the time he signs with some one, thusly putting your guess on the low side.
Thanks for the comment. I can see why guys would think that way but
seeing that the market has dwindled and not many teams having much money left. I think the market will stay fairly neutral due to the luxury tax. As much as Harper and some other young ones are likely to set new records. I think that the value for veterans and guys on the decline will be harsher due to more teams adding analytics to the way they value players unlike the past where it seemed like guys were getting overpaid for past performances. But that’s just my personal opinion.
Please read my comment and give me facts to back up your statements.
other than his dwar from last year you are speculating as well. the facts are this he is in the middle of his prime seasons the decline should start when he is around 32 so the buckos may chose to let him walk if he is still preforming as he has been or better as so often happens to players in there PRIME the feel compelled to seek the highest dollar figure possible in his next contract and who could blame him? Baseball years are for the young men when you get middle aged they retire around then. The guy could live like a king and never have to do anything that he didnt want to afterwards. His next contract will be a minimum of 25 mil per year with a pitt discount or open market around 30 mil per year. I would take the 30 mil per year and all of you would also.
So what you’re saying is that his recent track record of down performance
and a bunch of knee / lower body soreness isn’t a concern. Also not blaming guys for wanting more money. I’m saying that with more teams moving to analytics for player evaluation there’s less of a chance that these guys are going get paid for past performances.
Let us say that by age 32 Cutch is a 4 WAR player, posting a wRC+ of around 135-145. In 2019 Free Agent $$$ that probably makes him “worth” $35m a year. Now, when you factor in age decline…etc I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone give him a 6 year deal for $150m and still think they could mine a little surplus value out of him. Especially since a move to the corner would improve his defense and not hurt his overall value that much.
Let’s see cards lose lackey and heyward and they both go to Cubs, cubs gain zobrist cards lose lance Lynn for season . Last year Cubs beat cards in nlds and matheny disagrees with heyward that Cubs core is better than cards . Wow
The Cardinals lost Lynn but got Wainwright back.. dont forget that. Also the offseason is far from over. They could easily grab a 2-3 pitcher and an Alex Gordon/ Cespedes. Also if you actually read the article he doesnt say the Cardinals core is better. He says “But I can’t say I’m in any kind of agreement with that (Chicago) core being better than any kind of core that we have.”
Agree. Seems like a lot of the Cubs fans want to label you guys done but the off season still not done. Like you said they can easily grab a couple guys like Chen and Kazmir to even or surpass the Cubs.
No argument cards could sign players or trade for players but as of heyward signing Cubs are a better all around team. the times they are a changin. Maybe Cubs aren’t done either . Fun seeing cards as always a bridesmaid never the bride
cubs aren’t brides or bridesmaids
Hmmmm. Bridesmaids?
2011 vs 1907?
Hahahaha.
I know it’s been a long time since Cub fans have seen any kind of success, but try to have a little class! I’m actually glad to have a rivalry again. Hasn’t been for quite some time now. Let’s play!
What do you want him to say!
the Cubs have a lot of potential.
Do you not know what the word “THE” is??
matheney must be a crackhead if he believed that nonsense. The cubs are a team of 5 years at a minimum if they dont sign extensions before hand. The cards are a team with 3 fading former stars and a bunch of 4A ball players other than carpenter he will be there lone bright spot in 2-3 years. Maybe martinez also will be a star if he continues to improve. Matheney cant compete core for core now or last year for that matter. I will give them credit for 1 thing they are master at playing over their heads.
Just another Cub fan who isn’t used to winning and still doesn’t understand how it’s done on a yearly basis. Talk talk talk talk talk……that’s all you have because you still haven’t won ONE DAMN THING.
Um, you might might want to check your facts. You can’t say the Cubs haven’t won one damn thing. Clearly you forget about the magical 1907 and 1908 seasons. Maybe you should do some research before posting such ignorant statements here.
The only talking going on is cardinals fan saying ridiculously bad things about Jason heyward after he chose to go to a better and younger team. Also, we have won one damn thing, it was actually just this year when we beat the crap out of the cardinals, making them look like they shouldn’t even be playing in the playoffs and then stole their best hitter and the pitcher who had the best year for them last year. I consider all of those things a “win” although I may be misinterpreting the word “win” because you are clearly much smarter than everyone else on the planet and you’re never wrong. Just like your cardinals friend up there that thinks the Yankees are 27 inches long, he’s always right too, isn’t he?
So out scoring a team by a total of three runs now means you “beat the crap out of them?” That’s news to me. How did you do against the Mets again?
The series against the cardinals was 3-1 so the run differential doesn’t matter much unless it helps you sleep at night. And yes the mets beat the crap out of the Cubs by anyone’s definition, but that shouldn’t help you too much either because if they beat the Cubs that bad, imagine what they would’ve done to the cardinals if the cards were good enough to even make it there
So a 3-1 series with a run differential is “beating the crap out of someone?” Okay cool. And you can’t say anything about whether the Mets would or wouldn’t have beaten the Cards, we’ll never know.
Well that’s like saying wonder how the Cubsxwould have faired the Dodgers. Stupid remarks here. Just like Cards fans saying Cubs over paid Hayward funny Cards offered him 200 Mil. Mad Bro. Grow up haters. Get over it.
Lol well said then again why wete the Mets there we should played LA now will never know but I wonder how that series would have went. N we beat both aces in LA this year. Does it matter now. Who won WS? KC will anyone care in April? I rest my case
Doesn’t matter if each game was 1-0 you lost. A team with best MLB record 100 games. He said right played a team that looked like it didn’t even belong there. Your lucky to even have won that first game. lackey punched great as Lester. DW you can watch SF n Chi battle it out this Oct. Get use to it this why Cub fans hate on Cards fans cause you say hated dumb things just out if being a sore loser. Get over it.
Typo in bed typing lol pitched
You Cubs fans are cute when you’re angry. My apologies over the misuse of quotation marks. I should’ve used apostrophes. By the way, did you guys ever hold a lead against the Mets in the NLCS? The answer to that would be no. Actually though, considering you’re an expert in the use of quotation marks and apostrophes, you’re of very high intelligence. That being the case, let’s give you a crack at solving a riddle. Good luck!
66, 4, 2
3
24′
My apologies over the misuse of the api
Man I’m really sorry you got so worked up over that quotation mark joke hahaha didn’t mean for you to get all butthurt, I just think it’s funny when someone on here is trying to be degrading to someone and messing up grammar or spelling in the process. I’ve seen people on here much worse than you though so don’t worry about it. But I also got a good laugh out of it so thanks dude and better luck next year
My original comment was degrading? When I said that Heyward made the right decision, or that I love when the Cubs and Cardinals play meaningful baseball? Degrading didn’t enter the thread until you pointed out the apostrophe mistake. It was sort of my whole loint. Just chill, brother. You guy’s have a phenomenal team. Ridiculously young and talented. You need to put a WS title less than 100 years old on the resume before you start talking mad trash like that though. Then it’s all good. Nobody gushes over divisional playoff series winners. When you also start bragging about how the Cubs handled us, of course we’ll bring up how the Mets handled the Cubs. I think you might have been been a little “butthurt” before anyone else. So, yeah. All good. Same to you. Better luck next year.
Coming from a Cubs fan I agree we got our butts handed to us but no one can deny that the Cubs are the new team to beat in the NL central.
Just like the Nats were the team to beat in baseball last year, the Colts were the team to beat in the AFC this year, etc.
I made a smartass 1907 and 1908 championship comment on here. I’m a Cubs fan. I like the moves the Cubs made, but I’ll wait until April starts and evaluate teams. Over 162 games it takes a lot of re-evaluation. Either way I don’t lose any sleep over losing. Or winning. Or the pre-season. I’m also a Saints fan; after they won the Super Bowl the city of New Orleans woke up the next day and was shocked that their life hadn’t changed (I lived there and heard many people say something like “it’s weird, I don’t feel any different” in a very confused tone). Don’t get me wrong, everyone was happy and had a big ole party for weeks, but the fans still had to go to work, still had life’s struggles, etc.
I don’t get too caught up in the losing. Or the winning. Or the offseason. Having “my teams” is fun to follow, but when I say my teams I use quotations because they aren’t really mine, and I don’t refer to teams with the word “we”. If I really were part of the team I wouldn’t have to pay $50 for a crappy seat and $10 for a beer.
My point? Enjoy being a fan, but don’t take sports too seriously.
I’m a Cubs fan. My comment was sarcasim. Fans take things way too serious, especially the off season.
I’ve never seen a bunch of winey in denial brats. As a Cubs fan n lifer of Chicago I don’t hate the cards. But you people need to get over yourselves and get over it. The Cards are still a good team. But no way they post 100 wins or 95 really I predict 88 but 90 would gift. Let’s be for real seriously n not hating. Could the Cards sign big names yet. Sure they could but their not. Their GM already said that. Their going with what they got maybe go for a pitcher #3 would be my guess. Their no Davis or Gordon or Uprin or Cel. So get that through your heads or your going to be disappointed. GM already said after losing Price n Hayward the big tickets are done. FACT! Next Hayward content taken out of text. It’s not the core although the core is a lot better than St.L. U think the Cards manager going to admit that. Be like working for Coke n saying Pepsie taste better. Our young players Braynt, Russle, Jorge, Swarb, Risso, Bez all fit for the future Hayward 26 he don’t want to be w the over the Hill gang w no future. Plus our farm ranks at least in top 3 LA prob #1 we were till all those players came up. SL farm see we’re it ranks. These are all facts. Next Chicago sign 3 big names n they will get another pitcher now or durning the season. ST. L will be lucky if they sign anyone in FA n you have no one to trade anyone wants. Now maybe maybe Leak if their Lucky n LA don’t get him. Their desp in LA after 3 fails. Yes your ace is back but it will take a few months to get the rust out. If he post 14 to 15 consider it a victory. Last we’re they going. Now nothing is a guarantee in MLB anything could happen. But let’s take the top teams. We can say SF will take the West. Really that’s pretty safe bet. Arz just don’t have enough. The nationals will not repeat last years collapse. Really I think they sign a few big names before it’s all said n done. The mets have the young pitchers but with the two major loses I’ll take Wash in the East. Now be honest do we really need to go over the Central. Ok so we have the SF , Chi, Wash. That leaves 2 WC spots. We have Arz, LA, ST.L, Pitt, NY 3 of 5 aren’t going to post season n after a day 4 of the 5. Let’s drop Pitt first they done nothing there’s no way they repeat that 98 games. That was gift. Won’t happen. Let’s drop LA 3 fails n running out of time w a 40mil lux tax bill. N Cre can’t win every game. Now Arz has the goods to be a WC no doubt n win that one game. That leaves Mets n St. L take your pick next big signing gets the spot. If I’m lying I’m flying. This truth. So get with reality. Please. Mad Bro Don’t be. ST L been a great team over the years and will always be in the mix no doubt. But if you think their WS bound in the next 5 years your only fooling yourself. Really fans show some class and at least give credit were credit is due to The Cubs. We deserve it and we should enjoy it like you did for many many years n no one can ever take that away from you. I rest my case.
Martinez might be a star? Lol, I am looking forward to Arrieta’s massive regression next year. It will be fantastic.
Hey Cubs/Cards will be fun again and both sides should be happy about that.
Until last year it hasn’t been much fun for anyone. Best team? Different year to year and really, we won’t know until the games are played. Cubs have made good moves, whether they out remains to be seen.
Wow. Cubbies win a wild card game, one Divisional round series, get straight handled in the NLDS, and now they’re the 27″ Yankees. I love you guys being relevant. Meaningful Cards/Cubs games in September are the best. Heyward definitely chose right. His complimentary bat slides right into that lineup. We need an impact bat over here. Heyward is not that. It just seems some of his words were sort of a dig at the Cardinals. Not sure where all that came from. Anyhoo, the Cardinals are an afterthought every year, so nothing new here. We’ll be fine. Good luck in 16″, Cubs. Just dial it down a bit. Put one of those enormous WS rings on your finger first. Then talk all the trash you want
27 inch Yankees and 16 inch Cubs?
Well sore loser no we didn’t win WS we didn’t win nlcs. But we weren’t even suppose to be there. We won 97 games with a 4 starter rotation. 4 rookies. N we beat a team that had 98 wins n one that 100 wins. That really shouldn’t have had that many. ST L was far from a 100 team winner. Another 2 weeks u would have lost the division. But we beat you what’s your excuse. You didn’t have Wainwright. Give me a break. I bet he won’t crack 14 wins this year. Heard it here first.
I love subjective points of view. I prefer dealing in fact. 1: The season wasn’t 2 weeks longer, and we didn’t lose the division. It was our 3rd straight Central Division title. 2nd: There 162 games in a MLB season. Of those 162 games, we won 100. That makes us the textbook definition of a 100 win team. 3rd: If we’re losers, what exactly did you win? Actually, I’ll answer that. You won a divisional playoff series. This now gives you exactly 9 postseason wins since 2000. During the same strech, the Cardinals have won 66 postseason games, 4 NL pennants, and 2 World Series. Trust me when I say this, I’m not sore at all.
One more fact I forgot to add. During your NLCS series with the Mets, there was not one point that you even held a lead against them. Ouch……….
I have no idea what that other guy was saying honestly lol. But don’t say you like subjective points of view when by definition yours isn’t because you’re a cardinals fan. Just because you listed 4 facts about random times throughout baseball doesn’t make your opinion objective. I’m not objective in any way, I’m a Cubs fan, but I would never claim to be objective just because some of the things I say happen to be facts. And the reason every Cubs fan is “gushing” over the NLCS is that we beat the cardinals in that series and it was the first postseason matchup between the two teams, no one is saying that suddenly makes us a better team historically than the cardinals, only that we were better this year. So don’t purposely take something we say out of context because you think you can try to make a point out of it because that no longer amuses me
What were you expecting him to say?
Heyward didn’t say in his quote the Cubs core was Better- he said he thought they’d be together longer than the Cards core. That’s where it seem Matheny misunderstood and took issue.
I can’t fault heyward for signing with the Cubs but I almost read that as… I will take 2mil a year but don’t look at me as the key to the team. Cards have always been dedicated to winning so using those 2 as a the prime reason is pretty weak for a guy getting paid like him.
McCutchen is my favorite non-Cubs player hands down and I hope the Pirates can keep him. He’s an absolute joy to watch and now that the Cubs finally have a decent team it doesn’t hurt quite as much to watch him!
2019 free agency is gonna be sick. Harper, Machado, Fernandez, Kershaw, Waino, Yadi, Pence, A-Gon, Keuchel, Andrew Miller, Familia, Capps, Shelby Miller, Donaldson, and more.
McCutchen shouldn’t have signed an extension that took him all the way to his age 32 season. Should have gone to age 30, tops. Those two years are going to end up costing him like 20 million bucks when you factor in what he will be paid in those two seasons.
Heyward, also, never said anything about anybody being better. He actually went out of his way, many time to say he would NEVER say anything negative about St. Louis. His point was at 26 years old, and a eight year contract, he could grow along with the Cubs young core of players.
I’d rather be on the Cubs, their fans probably won’t tweet horrifyingly racist things at him if he opts out or signs with another team.
Yeah. Cubs fans are great. Just ask Steve Bartman.
Yep cause Cubs fans never did anything like threaten to kill Steve Bartman or anything, huh?
Don’t be so ignorant. We both know that fans on Twitter reflect a very low percentage of any fan base.
We all know his signing with the Cubs was nothing to do with the “Core” it happened because of the Opt outs that are in there
The prices will go up by 18, Cutch will get at least 18 million for 5 years.
If you think the Pirates will resign Cutch then you are just not paying attention
If Heyward is too much of a pansy to want to be the face of a franchise, then I’m glad he took his weak constitution up north to get paid like one.
Pragmatism and cowardice are not even remotely the same thing. Heyward clearly put a great deal of thought into his decision, and you just don’t like the conclusions he came to that lead him to sign elsewhere.
Matheney is just saying that to stick up for his players. He defends them, right or wrong. However, in the back of his mind, he knows that everything Heyward said is true. Also, in the back of his mind, he knows that Heyward recently said Matheney was an “idiot” for putting Randal Grichuk in Center field in the playoffs when he couldn’t throw. Grichuk had to under hand the ball to Heyward for a throw to the plate. And, in reality, there will be no block buster traded for the Cardinals going into 2016. Moz has alienated himself and the Cardinals from teams that have impact player that could help them. Plus, No other impact free agents will be signed this season. If he bids, it will always be at least second because he knows the market. Get close to show an effort, then don’t do nothing. Same as he’s done the past 3 years. The good talent he’s given up over the last few years for scrubs is mind boggling! But, as long as he is the GM, this is the pattern he will follow folks. Cardinal fans are going to just have to live with it. Until some front office and coaching changes.
You know what Matheny thinks in the back of his mind, as well as that Mo has alienated himself from other ball clubs? Impressive. Until the model that Mo has put into place fails on a consistent level, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. The results of his entire tenure as GM so far are results I’ll gladly “live with”. Your username suggests you’re a Cardinal’s fan. Don’t be fairweather. It’s not cool.
Look on the bright side. at least you’re not a Brewers fan.
Bahahaha! Love it.
matheny said he didn’t blame him. he already knows cause it’s not in the back of his mind, it was spoken
I truly hope you guys are right and that I am wrong.
I don’t think Heyward ever said Cubs core is better than cards core , wat I read is that the core would be there longer , in this article anyway
No problems with what Matheny said. He will back up his players no matter what (as would any manager for that matter). Heyward probably didn’t need to phrase it like that eithet. Simply saying “I chose the Cubs because I wanted to play here, I like the young talent in Chicago, and they offered the best contract” would have been suffice.
I agree with that. I think that what he ment.
I think Heyward really underestimates the Cardinals’ core. Molina and Wainwright will still be there in three years and likely still productive veteran leaders, and while Holliday and Peralta might leave and/or be in heavy decline by then, there’s still a star player in Matt Carpenter signed long term as well as several young promising stars like Wong, Grichuk, Piscotty, Wacha, Martinez, and Rosenthal to keep up the usual level of success.
Basically, I’m saying that while Heyward is correct in that the Cubs’ current core will be together longer than the Cardinals’ current core, the Cards will have a new excellent core in place by then. Part of their recipe for long-term success is to consistently recycle the core when it makes sense to do so. They keep a few key veterans around long term but let others go when necessary and replace them with newcomers from the farm or a key trade or signing. They’ve been to the playoffs for 5 straight years, including two pennants and a World Series title, yet the only players remaining from that 2011 Championship Team are Wainwright (who missed that 2011 season), Molina, Holliday, Garcia, and Lynn (who will miss the 2016 season).