The Cardinals didn’t have a strong interest in Chris Davis at the start of December and not much seems to have changed in two weeks, as USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets that the Cards still aren’t keen on the free agent slugger. Of course, quite a bit has happened in the last two weeks, as St. Louis has come up short in its pursuit of such top-tier free agents as Jason Heyward and David Price. Rather than sign Davis, the Cards seem prepared to use a Brandon Moss/Matt Adams platoon at first base this season (not to mention Stephen Piscotty also on hand as an option at first). Here’s more from around the NL Central…
- The Cardinals’ interest in Alex Gordon is complicated by Matt Holliday’s presence in left, FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi writes. Aside from a handful of games at DH, Holliday has never played anywhere other than left field during his 12-year career, so someone like Gordon would have to be okay with playing in center or right for 2016 — Holliday is only under contract through this season. Holliday has a no-trade clause, and he’s probably unlikely to waive it to go elsewhere this late in his career. Morosi also floats an interesting little conspiracy theory, noting that Holliday and Davis are both represented by Scott Boras; so if Holliday refuses a trade and blocks a Gordon signing, that could theoretically make St. Louis a suitor for Davis if the club is intent on adding another big bat.
- The history of Neil Walker’s long-term extension talks with the Pirates is compiled in a very interesting piece from Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Walker turned down a multi-year offer from the Bucs in his 2010 rookie year and talks didn’t pick up again until last winter. The Pirates offered a three-year, $27MM extension that would’ve covered Walker’s last two arb years and his first free agent year; that was countered by a two-year, $19MM offer from Walker’s camp but the Pirates wanted a team option on that 2017 free agent year. “The offer wasn’t very realistic. And there was no negotiating in between. It was, ‘Here it is.’ When we countered, there was no response, so we went to the [arbitration] hearing,” Walker said. That hearing ended up being “probably the point when I lost all faith in the organization,” as Walker was put off by the Pirates’ assessment of his play and figured his days were numbered in Pittsburgh. Walker’s tenure with the Bucs ended last week when he was traded to the Mets for Jon Niese. On the Walker negotiations, GM Neal Huntington said that “every agreement has to find a common middle ground. We’ve been successful on other fronts. This one was not successful. We’re as much at fault as anybody.”
- The Pirates have some level of interest in Korean first baseman/DH Dae-ho Lee, according to Biertempfel (on Twitter). Lee met with GMs from four clubs in Nashville, per Jeeho Yoo of Yonhap News (on Twitter), though it’s not clear whether the Pirates were one of those teams. Lee feels that he might not have a deal by the end of 2015, though he could sign sometime in January (link to Yoo’s Twitter).
- The Cubs “had a lot of lines in the water” on the trade market, an NL executive tells Joel Sherman of the New York Post. “The expectation is,” as Sherman writes, that the aggressive Cubs will make another big move to add a front-of-the-rotation young starter, and are dangling Jorge Soler and/or Javier Baez to make such a deal happen.
MLBTR’s Zach Links also contributed to this post
A platoon of Moss/Matt Adams would be two LHBs.
Yeah, and they’re both better against righties than lefties, so that doesn’t make a ton of sense.,
But isn’t “Moss Adams” a name from the original Star Wars? So, cool.
Haha maybe they mean Piscotty Adams/Moss RF/1B Platoon
I’m a die heart Cub fan but right now we never had a team like this one so stop messing with the bats we got pitching coming and the 5 we got most would want so slow down and play with the hand we built. More is coming up the ranks. Thanks Theo now relax smell the Rose’s you did well
So after everything they’ve done to rebuild this team, you think they should just be complacent now and not try to keep improving? That’s a horrible idea.
I was think the same thing Priggs , I also am a Cubs fan, but disagree with the original post.
Agreed but trading Soler is not a good idea, IMO. I would rather save some budget for a deadline deal in case of an injury that needs to be addressed.
I love when people have no clue what that they’ve be saying a phrase wrong their entire life.
In English next time.
Yeah don’t take proofreading for granite.
Ha, nice.
I literally died reading this.
They’re not as good as you think. Teams never are. Cubs have gone basically two years without a major injury. Their luck is not going to hold out forever.
Didn’t know you guys won the World Series?
Don’t you remember when the Padres won the World Series last December, or when Toronto won it in December 2012?
Yes, They have one well. But it would be nice to also build a team that’s is competitive down the road. Lackey is signed for only 2 years, Hammels has 2 maybe 3 years left. One of the biggest issues the Cubs had was pitching depth. Warren is a decent return for Castro, and they have depth with swing pitchers. ( Warren,Cahill,Wood,Richard) . They Cubs right now have an abundance of tradable talent (Baez,Soler,Almora,Torres) , If the Cubs could get a young controllable starter to strengthen the rotation then they should go for it. With the price of pitching going absurd (Shark getting $18 million a year 17-20) the Cubs will need to address the rotation cost effectively esp. when they will need to pay Arietta down the road.
Pitching is coming? From where?
Our top pitching prospects are in the lower levels.
Duane Underwood A
Pierce Johnson AA
Dylan Cease A
The only real pitching prospect we have is Carl Edwards Jr.
and he’s considered more of a bullpen arm at this point.
Pierce starts in aaa underwood in as with most likely a call up to aaa by seasons end and cease and sands should be aa bound seasons end
Piscotty can be a very solid RF and a bounce back for Moss is plenty possible. He was a really good hitter (better than Heyward) for 3 years before his hip surgery. Him having a normal off-season and Spring Training will be nice, I’m pretty optimistic about Moss. I see no reason to make a panic move for the position players. Are they as good as the Cubs on paper? No, but the distance isn’t great enough to be overly concerned. Add some depth and lets roll.
Moss was a better hitter if all you look at is HRs.
Jason Heyward:
2012: 121 WRC+
2013: 120 WRC +
2014: 110 WRC +
Brandon Moss:
2012: 160 WRC+
2013: 137 WRC+
2014: 121 WRC+
Nice try
The last thing the Cardinals should do is make reactionary moves to the Cubs. Davis is a disaster waiting to happen.
Davis seems to only had one team after him and now they pull offer .wonder if he blacklisted for who his agent is .plus he not on every year .he needs to get lowball offers to put him back in his place
Davis isn’t blacklisted….though he is very boom/bust.
His last two years:
2014: .196BA, .704OPS, 96OPS+…26HR, 72RBI.
2015: .262BA, .923OPS, 146OPS+…47HR, 117RBI
Teams don’t know which Davis they are getting. Yes his prior years were better than ’14, but he is a year older and he is streaky. He is slightly more productive Lucas Duda looking for $150m+.
It must be a great time to be a Cubs fan. Theo took a playoff team and added a very good number 3 starter and a great outfielder. Now he can trade from really valuable prospect surplus to get even more. The Cubs should be competitive for years.
I don’t want to sound naive…but, why all the fuss over Soler and Baez? Neither has done a thing in the Majors at this point!! Yes, they are young…but, in parts of 2 seasons, Soler has a career average of .268…with 15 HR’s in 455 AB’s…and 38 walks…and 145 K’s!! What is the big deal?? Baez, in parts of 2 seasons, has a career average of .201…119 K’s in 289 AB’s!! What am I missing? Either of these kids will bring a top line pitcher in trade? Why?
You don’t for trade players for what they’ve done, you trade players for what they think they will do in the future. As rookies, players tend to play well, then pitchers adjust and then they tend to play not as well. What’s important to see is if those young players make the necessary adjustments, which I personally believe soler and Baez have made (although Baez may still need to adjust further).
Agree with this. Funny how that works though. You trade prospects for what you think they will be and you sign free agents based on what they already accomplished. Funny game sometimes.
Baez in a single season in the minors hit 37 homeruns as a second baseman.
Jorge Soler hit .340 got on base at .a 432 clip and hit 15 homeruns in 62 games in the minors.
While belting 5 homeruns in the majors the same year in 89 at bats.
They both have crazy upside considering the positions that they play.
They’re still both 23 as well.
I’m not saying they’ll make it but they both have the upside of a middle of line up bats.
Because they’re both young, and have potential. Outside of the elite few, most players take consistent playing time, and a few years, before they realize their potential.
They’re not going to get a really good SP straight up for one of them, but that should be obvious.
Please Theo make a big move here by trading Soler and a couple prospects to TB for Cobb and Kiermaier! That would make an unstoppable team all around
And then there’s the Brewers
Couldn’t disagree more. If they thought Soler was going to be something really special, they would keep him, not sign Heyward and have spent the money on a starter. They are trying to unload thier over-hyped prospects.. it will be interesting to see who takes the bate on this and who they give up for some power, all around below average hitting and 200+ strikeouts.
I just don’t get how there is that much difference between playing Left Field and Right Field if Gordon is a great a left fielder, surely he’d be adequate in right for one year.
It’s not that easy to just change a position at the MLB level. It’s also dangerous for the Cardinals to try that move if they are going to give Gordon some serious cash. What if he injures himself because he is not used to playing RF?
I see the issue here. Clearly the team does not want to roll the dice on Davis (and I don’t blame them). Very tough position to be in right now if you are the Cardinals front office.
I’m pretty sure a gold glover like Gordon can switch to rf if lance Berkman can do it he can if the bat plays it works I watched 95 percent of cardinals games last 15 years and heyward wasn’t that special not 20 mil a year player Cubs gave up 1st round picks too so we’re pretty good in draft so I doubt cards are worried not like lackey and heyward are leaving us after leading us to a World Series title
Well the entire position is the reverse of the other, so if you spent your entire career playing the game one way, and it was suddenly flipped around, it would create some getting used to. Obviously, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, since Gordon/holiday would have a whole spring training to work on it.
I would have been concerned if the Cubs got Grienke. Lackey and Heyward? C’mon man. Replaceable parts.
With who? That was literally y’all’s two best players last year. You’re talking about a Cubs team that already destroyed you in the nlcs, and now have your best players. Good luck dude. Btw, y’all had one of the worst offenses last year, so without heyward it will be horrific.
The Cubs, coming off a 97 win season and an appearance in the N.L. championship series are legitimate World Series contenders in 2016. After their three recent free agent acquisitions of John Lackey, Ben Zobrist and Jason Heyward, they are, arguably the best team in MLB, at least on paper.
That being said, they still have some upgrades they are pursuing to solidify their chances for next season. They include finding another quality starting pitcher to slot into their rotation, a lead-off hitting CF to keep Heyward in RF and a more experienced veteran closer or an addition to the back end of their bullpen.
I agree with all of that except the bullpen, I think we can add a bullpen arm of course–every team can– but that is not a need. A lead off hitting cf and SP are the two needs. Kevin gausman is intriguing because he wouldn’t take Baez or soler and I’m high on him, and that frees up soler to trade along with hammel’s salary for a proven, young CF
Why would the Cubs go after a guy with question marks like Gausman, when there are plenty more sure-bet options out there, like Tyson Ross. Gausman has a high ceiling, but he hasn’t put it together yet, and the Cubs are all-in and can’t afford to take on a SP who is a risk. They need to minimize that risk with whoever they get to upgrade over Hammel and/or Kendrick.
The Cubs had one of the best bullpens last year. Why one earth do people think they need to improve it that much if at all. “More experienced closer”???? Really. I hate to break this to you and to the rest of the baseball world, but Rondon has been one of the best closers in the game the last 2 years. He would’ve had 40+ saves in 2015 had maddon not lost faith so quickly with him in May. He had 2 bad outings in May……… THAT’S IT!! And he lost his closing gig as a result. He’s been 59 for 67 in save opportunities the last 2 years. That’s an 88% success rate. Craig Kimbrel the last 2 years has a 91% success rate as a closer the last 2 years. Trevor Rosenthal has a 91% success rate. Huston Street has a 91% success rate. Rondon is right there with those guys. Had he converted just two more of those saves he too would be at 91%.
His other stats the last 2 years have been on par with the best in the league as well. The last 2 years as Cubs closer he has a 2.03 ERA, 2.48 FIP, 2BB/9, 8.9K/9, and a 190 ERA+. That ERA+ is better than most closers, including Kimbrel’s 175 ERA+ the last 2 years. He walks VERY few guys for a closer. He strikes out about 1 man per inning. That ERA is among the best and his FIP suggests it may not be a fluke. Rondon is one of the best closers in the game. From May 25th last year until the end of the season Rondon had a 0.85 ERA. Doesn’t get much more “shut down” than that.
Then after Rondon they have at least 2 and you can make a case for 3 solid setup men candidates in Strop and Ramirez who was nasty good in 2014. Grimm is the other guy who only had a 1.99 ERA last year. Travis Wood once demoted to pen work had a 2.95 ERA and saw his K rate jump to 11+K/9. That’s 5 solid relievers right there. Carl (CJ) Edwards could also be in the pen and maybe he lives up to his lights out potential he’s had at every stop in the minors. Rex brothers is a solid reliever they added this offseason. They also re-sign Cahill who was lights out as a reliever once on the Cubs so he could possibly be a solid reliever for this team. Then there is the addition of Warren in the Castro trade. Personally I hope he beats out Hammel for a starting gig and the Cubs then trade away Hammel. If that does happen but they don’t trade Hammel, Hammel becomes an intriguing long relief option. THEN they also have Clayton Richard who they brought back who could be a bullpen option. Bottom line is, they have about 10 players who can only fill 7 spots in the bullpen. Rondon, Strop, Ramirez, Grimm, and Wood are pretty much locks. That leaves 2 spots for Brothers, Edwards, Warren, Cahill, Richard, and Hammel. Whoever loses the starters spot in Hammel or Warren will likely get the 6th spot in the pen. That last spot is up for grabs b/w Brothers, Edwards, Cahill, and Richard……. point? They have plenty of relievers and they all were solid last year.
Number 1 priority the have really isn’t a priority and just another nice luxury to add. That would be trading for another quality SP. Perosnally, I think keeping the team as is would be awesome and then just go out and give either Fister or Latos a pillow deal at 1 year $10-12 mil. IMO both are prime bounce back candidates. Just a year ago Latos was viewed as one of the fixtures in this offseasons stacked pitching market. His stock was up there with Zimmermann’s. He had one disastrous season in 2015 and all of a sudden he’s a 1 year deal candidate. Velocity decline has been his red flag the last few years, but if I remember correctly he saw some of that velocity return in 2015, adding almost 1 MPH to his fastball from 2014. His horrible season is baffling. He is known to have shaky mechanics but with Bosio at the helm I think he can work his magic and fix him.
As is, this team is rock solid top to bottom. It’s the first time I can say that in my existence as a Cub fan and say it with confidence. Cubs lineup is just sick right now (on paper) and the rotation is solid with Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, Hendricks, and Hammel. The Bullpen is essentially the same as last year’s for the most part. That bullpen last year had the 8th best ERA in the league at a 3.38. That bullpen had tied for the 6th most saves in MLB with 48. That bullpen had the 7th most strikeouts. And that bullpen had the 6th lowest BAA at .234. Can’t get much better than that…… and they might have already gotten better with the additions of Brothers, Cahill (for the full season) and Warren if he doesn’t end up in the rotation.
While A bit rosier and optimistic than I’d predict…the Cubs are still going to beast in ’16. They have dodged serious injuries and have had excellent production from their rookies, both of which will need to continue to get 95-100 wins. I think they are in the 92-94 win range.
sign david murphy and justin morneau. move carpenter to right field. possibly sign beuhrle and lincecum
Shirley this is a troll.
out of the box thinking. shirley’s no troll
If Lincecum could be fixed, the Cards or Braves may be his only hope.
Why sign Murphy and Carpenter to RF? Who would play 3B?
murphy
Guess he’s referring to Daniel Murphy
“make St. Louis a suitor for Davis if the club is intent on adding another big bat.”
*** The next big bat they sign will be their only BIG bat.
Cards trade wong and get Frazier from Reds. Carp plays second. Then get a SS
get frazier and trade wong. Have Carp play second. Get a SS