5:18pm: The Mets have formally announced the trade, which is indeed a one-for-one swap of the two veteran players.
3:31pm: The Mets have reached agreement on a deal for Pirates second baseman Neil Walker, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports on Twitter. It is pending a review of medicals and “small other matters,” he adds. Lefty Jon Niese is heading to Pittsburgh in the deal, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney tweets.
Both players have long been said to be available. The move allows the teams to swap similarly-priced assets to fill needs.
In Walker, the Mets will add a thirty-year-old switch-hitter who does much of what the team hoped to find in Ben Zobrist. Better still, Walker is much younger and will not require a commitment beyond the coming season. His 2016 salary is not yet determined, but MLBTR projects that he’ll earn $10.7MM via arbitration.
Though Walker did not quite live up to his fairly high standards last year, he was nevertheless quite productive at the plate. All said, he owns a .272/.338/.431 lifetime bating line, compiled in nearly 3,500 plate appearances, and has averaged about 16 long balls a year since he became a regular. He’s rarely strayed too far above or below that mark, which is quite productive for a middle infielder.
Walker profiles more as an average to below-average defender, but his bat has been good enough to make up the difference. In the aggregate, he’s something like a 2.5 to 3.5 WAR player, making him quite a useful piece. It is worth noting, however, that Walker’s traditionally poor performance against left-handed pitching got even worse last year, making him a candidate for part-time platoon support.
Niese, meanwhile, will presumably take up a rotation spot for the Bucs. He’s owed $9MM for the coming season and can be controlled via two options priced at $10MM and $11MM, each of which include $500K buyouts.
The 29-year-old southpaw was not at his best in 2015, as he worked to a 4.13 ERA in 176 2/3 innings. But he produced at quite a strong level for the three preceding seasons, with peripherals largely supporting his results. He produced a 3.49 ERA, with 6.9 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 to go with a 49.0% groundball rate, in 521 innings over 2012-14. ERA estimators saw a bit of luck baked in, but he still ended the span with a 3.69 FIP and xFIP to go with a 3.85 SIERA mark.
Pittsburgh has, of course, had plenty of success in getting excellent value out of veteran rotation pieces. It’s not fair to call Niese a bounce-back type of asset, since he was still plenty serviceable last year, but he represents a buy-low option after his sub-par 2015. It’s worth bearing in mind, too, that Pittsburgh will have the potential for some down-the-line upside, as Niese’s options could look like solid pick-ups if he can return to his prior form.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
batman
Not bad for either team. As a Pirates fan I wish Walker the best of luck in NY
lemieuxkarl66
Good pickup for the Bucs considering Walker was on the “must dump” list, financially.
Mets get an all-around good player, who really isn’t bad at anything, albeit not great at much either.
Walker was likely the next best option for teams after Zobrist signed.
tierlifer
AS a Met fan I love the trade and wish Niese nothing but the best on Pitt. He’s from Ohio so will be a win win for him as well being closer to home.
gojira15
I thought the Mets got the better end. Walker was on the trade block because of his salary, while Niese was on the block because the Mets had little use for him except as a possible fifth starter. I thought Pittsburgh would get something else back for a decent starting 2B.
number70
i agree,mets get a second baseman to bridge the gap till Herrera is ready and the pirates acquire pitching with 3 years control.
Ruben_Tomorrow 2
Not a bad “stopgap” for the Mets. Mets get a solid second baseman for next season and can let Herrera develop a little more in the minors next season.
lemieuxkarl66
Dilson? I cringed when I saw it was Dilson we gave up for Byrd.
Byrd has become an icon in Pittsburgh, even whilst it was only for half a season, that was a magical year for the Bucs.
Can’t complain about getting Byrd at all.
keyboardxgms
Instead of Ben they settle for him? They still need a pop in the lineup since Wright isn’t that anymore, Duda is hit or miss and Grandy is getting older.
seldomused
That’s not how it went down. The Mets didn’t offer enough for Zobrist but he didn’t want to come here anyway. This is a stopgap until Dilson Herrera is ready.
mplumacher
I’m sure the mets offer was enough but the Cubs are a similar team to us and show a lot of potential, also zobrist and joe Masson were together in Tampa for a long time so that was most likely the deciding factor
jedihoyer
the mets actually offered more than the cubs. he just chose the better team 😀
frankiet91175 2
Really. Did you watch the Mets mop the floors with the Cubs in the NLCS?
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
One series determines everything now does it?
cxcx
Yes. It’s called the World Series. Maybe you’d prefer it be more expansive, like the two finalists play every day until one team gets ten wins, win by two.(or three) to make sure it’s accurate.
lemieuxkarl66
Mets & Bucs have helped each other enough over the past few years,
That I’m willing enough now to accept the Mets as a backup team to fanboy at this point.
seamaholic 2
Walker is five years younger than Zobrist and is — if anything — 1 WAR less productive and shrinking. With Zobrist’s age those lines will cross very soon. He doesn’t get a lot of pub playing in Pittsburgh, but Walker’s really good.
galihaaben 2
Zobrist is getting as old as Granderson (Granderson is two months older than Zobrist), Plus Zobrist is signed to four years at around $56 million, while Granderson has two seasons left on his contract.. As a Yankee fan, long contracts are a burden. From a GM’s perspective, having two seasons left is better than having four seasons to go, especially since both are at the age of 34. On the bright side, Walker can fill in since he’s a free agent after the end of next season. in which Herrera can slide right in for the future. I said it before the start of the year of 2015, and I’ll say it again; that the Mets really have a bright future ahead of them with these young kids. Just need veterans to guide them like Granderson, Wright, Colon.
Long Suffering Mets Fan
Ben Zobrist has not hit more than 13 HRs in the last 3 years and Walker’s minimum is 16 over the same period. They are the same power sandwich.
galihaaben 2
And as a Yankees fan, I would rather eat that one year left on Walker’s contract than four years with Zobrist. Zobrist is already 34 plus another four years… he would be fit for a Yankee if this was 2013.
Long Suffering Mets Fan
I agree. I was referring to an earlier comment that implied that Zobrist was needed to replace the power lost when Cespedes and Murphy walked.
ammiel
Missing out on Zobrist could see them sign a OF with a good pop. I think there a good chance at J Up.
yanks02026
Why would any team trade for Jon Niese. The guy is BAD
keyboardxgms
Bad? Kinda overreacting, eh? He’s been good and Pirates can make him better.
yanks02026
He’s bad. The mets almost released him mid season last year before he put up acouple good starts.
SaladFingers69
Literally none of that is true.
BucSox
Niese is a league average guy.
Since 2011
Pitcher A – ERA 3.83, FIP 4.14, xFIP 3.76, fWAR 8.9
Pitcher B – ERA 3.79, FIP 3.78, xFIP 3.70, fWAR 10.5
Pitcher A is Mike Leake and Pitcher B is Jon Niese. I am betting Leake gets a little more than 3/30 which is what Niese costs.
rique
false Niese is not that bad just needs defense behind him
bigkempin
Your knowledge of baseball and its economics is BAD
kent814
Ur talking about dillon gee idiot
staypuft
You’re bad and should feel bad.
twincitymets
The Pirates pitching coach works magic on seemingly back-of-the-rotation starters. For examples, see AJ Burnett and JA Happ. Happ ripped off a 1.85 era in 11 starts after the Pirates got him. Niese has similar peripheral numbers to Happ.
ThorsHammer34
Jon Niese is a quality left handed arm. He’ll give you 180 innings and is a very good #4 pitcher which is all the Bucs are trading for here. As a Met fan, I wish him good luck and acknowledge he was a valuable asset while we were grooming our power arms. He showed he could be valuable to a contending team too, evident by the work he did for the NL Champs this season.
frankiet91175 2
He’s better than 4/5 of the Yankee starters. Where are you getting your info that he was almost released.
edblue
Well I guess that solidifies not brining murph back. I wish him the best of luck. I am a walker fan and I hope we didn’t give up much more than neise. Another plus is that we saved some money instead of spending it on a FA 2nd baseman
MB923
It’s Walker for Niese, straight up
edblue
Well we save money buy not signing a FA second baseman. Now to go out and sign an outfield bat for some pop. Big fan of this move.
noahflesh
Niese isn’t bad, he isn’t that young but has potential. And every pitcher who goes to Pittsburgh does pretty good
yanks02026
The guy was 9-10 with a 4.13 ERA. That’s bad for someone pitching in the NL
batman
Wins and ERA for just last year? What is this 2005?
SaladFingers69
“9-10” lol. The guy is a mediocre SP. That’s fine. He isn’t bad, and he isn’t good. It doesn’t make him useless. Mets get a solid 2B to fill in for a year and the Pirates get a decent SP at a reasonable rate (with relatively cheap options).
disadvantage
Where were you when the Diamondbacks needed you? They just acquired a pitcher who was 6-17 last year! That’s like Niese divided by two, according to your metrics!
rct
Niese is pushing 30 and has six seasons under his belt. I’m not sure I’d use ‘potential’ in describing him. He pretty much is who he is at this point: an up and down pitcher who doesn’t stray much from average in either direction. It’s worth noting that last year was probably his worst in the majors.
rique
They turned liriano around im sure they could work wth Niese
hatersbjelly
Unless the Mets buy on a bat they are going to have a pretty impotent offense
3Tavgreg
Since this trade was pretty much revenue neutral, they can get Parra to platoon in CF and sign Uribe if they can get him cheap to back up Wright and provide some punch off the bench.
frankiet91175 2
You really think Parra is looking for a platoon role?
rct
Not a bad return for Niese. Considering that the Mets have been trying to trade him for over a year, getting a solid player (decent upgrade over Murphy as well) on a one-year deal at reasonable cost is about as much as a Mets fan could ask for.
twincitymets
This is great! Mets get a guy who hit 23 homers a year ago and plays better D than Murph. Walker also can play some 3rd, so he could be insurance for DW in case he goes down. Hopefully this move means the Mets will try to get Bartolo back on a cheap one year deal.
yclept
Walker hasn’t played third since 2010 and has a total of 15 career games there.
SoCalShu
Was hoping the Angels would have landed him….bug upgrade over Johnny G
Ap1556
Good trade considering Niese would have little to almost no role in July once Wheeler comes back
bigbenny
Potential aside, pitching depth is a must in the NL Central. Niese gives the Bucs an innings-eater and 12-14 wins if they hit behind them. The Red Sox won a Series starting two twos, a three, and a broken 4 so don’t discount a serviceable lefty arm.
TJECK109
Now that they have added a lefty I wonder if Locke will be shopped
Hannibal8us
This is fine with me, loved Walker but to be able to flip him for a guy who has plus stuff but who might just need a change of scenery is the Pirates MO. I mean they haven’t been wrong too often on these guys whether it was Liriano, Burnett, Happ, or Volquez the Pirates have been able to find the value in guys other teams have thrown out. So much rather have this guy than spend crazy money on number 3 pictures like Zimmerman or Samardzija.
jedihoyer
niese doesnt have plus stuff, he has average stuff,
TJECK109
Average stuff just got Happ $39 million. Walker was not going to be resigned. Pirates get a lefty with 3 years of control who can be bought out cheap if he does not perform.
hanks1hammer
This is a terrible trade. You got a pitcher who’s upside is league average but smart money is on a little less than that. Walker had only 1 league average year.
3Tavgreg
An added bonus for the Mets, if he has a decent year, they can extend him a QO and pick up another draft pick, like they did for Murphy. A decent pick might be as valuable as Niese, this is much better than Zoebust all that money.
joew
Personally i think it isn’t a good trade for the Bucs. Primary goal in trading Walker was to save money to get a proven pitcher.better mid/top of the rotation type guy
Niese’s 0.9 WAR last year will replace Locke’s 1.6 WAR in the rotation which now looks like Cole Liriano, Morton Niese.. (pick your order as you will) with one spot still open and quality options at a reasonable price fading fast..
I would’ve like to have seen the pirates get at least a B prospect or a pen arm (gee?) Along with Niese
That said.. the Pirates could’ve done much worse. At worst they have someone who should do better than locke has done recently (despite the difference in WAR) and At worst cost the pirates 10million for one year (including buyouts)
the pirates could’ve easily kept walker at 10million and QO’d him next year and gotten a draft pick.
hojostache
Trust me…if the Pirates would take Gee (w. Niese)…he’d be on a plane.
I think the Mets could have gotten a bit more if they waited until mid-season…but a lot could happen between now and then. Walker is a fair get and fills multiple needs (backing up D. Wright, platoon at 2B). I hope Niese does well for the Pirates, as he is a good guy.
Out of place Met fan
Gee is a FA
hojostache
Whoops…forgot that happened. Good luck to anyone who signs Gee, he really burned some bridges with the Mets in his last 1/2 season; mostly due to how he handled himself off the mound.
joew
oh… didn’t know that either… ty
hojostache
ps. By more I mean multiple prospects w. a decent upside instead of a MLB-caliber 2B. The move makes sense, so hopefully both teams see dividends.
jedihoyer
wow, a steal for the mets. i get the price of pitching is high but yikes.
frankiet91175 2
It seems your still bummed out about the NLCS. Until the Cubs can roll out four aces like the Mets did and will continue doing, the Cubs are no closer to catching the Mets then they were 2 months ago.
jedihoyer
i said the mets won the trade? i could care less who beat them just that they lost, the cubs bats have an extra year of experience and russell will be healthy. WS this year for sure.
baseball that
Maybe pirates go after Fraziser?
longjohnsilver
Well this just sucks.
Huntington keeps sliding deeper and deeper into my “slimeball” list.
batman
I bet you said the same thing about the AJ trade, and then signing, or the Martin signing, or the Edison signing, or the Cervelli trade, or the Happ trade. Howd those turn out? How about we wait until we start predicting doom and gloom?
npalley98
Well one happ wasn’t traded. We get nothing for him. Two we got shafted in the deal. Three the Edinson signing really? He just won a world series, and was a big part of it.
joew
Happ was traded. We gave up Adrian Sampson for Happ. Sampson was going to be fighting for a rotation spot before he left and stunk up the minors so his development is now set back.
hanks1hammer
Have to give the Mets the W in this trade. Both of played 6 mostly full seasons and Niesse had 4 league average or WORSE seasons. Walker had maybe 1 league average season but it wasn’t worse than that. The cost of pitching in the trade market is proving to be every bit as expensive as the free agent market
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Don’t like this trade at all. Niese is barely above average. Walker is one of the best 2nd players in baseball. Now the pirates have no 2b. Whatever Daniel Murphy gets he won’t live up to it and he’ll end up being a journeyman. I wouldn’t give Murphy 30 mil over 3 years.
batman
JHay will play solid 2b with Kang at 3rd
greatd
Hometown guy traded for a mediocre arm.
Would have gone for prospects in the lower levels than Niese.
batman
Why does the “Hometown guy” thing matter at all? Pirates need arms for 2016 not 2018 or later
hanks1hammer
They need arms, but not just ANY arms
hanks1hammer
Don’t blame you. Six seasons of Walker only one season he wasn’t better than league average. Hard to believe the Pirates couldn’t have done a little better. Would have at least hoped for a Mike Leake level pitcher. But, everyone misses one every now and then. You’ll just have to hope the Pirates front office took a blow to the head that they can recover from
hojostache
Mike Leake level…? He isn’t that good and he will be getting a $70m-$80m contract this off season. Jon Niese is 3/$30m, with the last two being club options. That is a far better deal for PIT.
jimmyz
Niese is a “Mike Leake” level pitcher. Only differences are age and to a lesser extent, durability. Aggregate stats between the two over the last 3-4 years are very similar
TJECK109
Considering the salary a pitcher like Niese would command in FA I don’t see the issue here. Walker wasn’t going to be kept beyond this season and you acquire a lefty with 3 years of control.
batman
Exactly! Thank you for being one of the few rationale ones here!
joew
I mostly agree.. but walker coud’ve been kept and offered a QO next year which he probably would accept or work out a 2/3 year deal. If he didn’t the pirates would’ve gotten a draft pick.
but the pirates need arms, Niese should do well in the black and gold.. Pirates have extra infielders and at worst would cost no more than Walker (with Niese’s buy outs)
Robertowannabe
Not a bad deal for the Pirates. Walker was leaving on his own after 2016. Pirates, smartly so, were not going to pay big bucks to a 30+ 2nd basement with a history of some back issues. No ill will to Neil as if he can get someone to pay him huge, you take it. See Russell Martin. He was/is not worth long term what Toronto paid for him as a catcher. If Niese reverts back to the pre 2015 numbers, then a really good deal for the Pirates. Got something for Walker who was going to leave anyway after 2016.
TJECK109
I think met fans are spoiled with their dominant starters and undervalue a guy like Niese. Average stuff just got Happ 39mil. The Pirates get a needed lefty who can be controlled for 3 years or dumped after one at minimal cost for a guy who would have been gone at the end of the season.
Average stuff is all a team like Pirates can hope for from their #3 starter. And if anyone should know what average stuff can do it’s the Mets. The Royals ran average stuff up against them in Chris Young in the World Series.
greatd
Happ even though a small sample size had an era below 2 with the Jays.
The upside is much higher for him then Niese.
jersey guy
Hearing pirates are talking to Murphy no real offer yet but guessing 3 years 30 million my be on the table
hojostache
lolz. He’ll go for nearly double that…if not more. He turned down 1yr/$16m and MLBTR has him at far more.
TJECK109
I would rather sign Kazmir than Murphy.
bigdaddyk
. From Baseball Reference:
2011 — Niese 0.4 WAR, Morton 1.9 WAR
2012 — Niese 3.4 WAR, Morton -0.4 WAR
2013 — Niese 0.7 WAR, Morton 0.5 WAR
2014 — Niese 1.7 WAR, Morton 0.4 WAR
TOTALS: Niese 6.2 WAR, Morton 2.4 WAR
From a health and effectiveness perspective, it’s not close. Niese has been the better pitcher over the last 4 years, plus he’s three years younger.
Happ got 3 for 36 we get him 3 for 30 it is a good move. Walker was not going to resign not worth the kinsler money he wants and the pirates have Hansen in AAA to take his spot long term. IN the short term I would think Harrison is the every day 2nd basemen
joew
niese wont’ be replacing morton, he’ll be replacing locke…(saying this now months before spring training though lol) Genearlly you dont’ want 3 lefties in the rotation unless one is elite (price or something)
Locke actually had a -0.7 WAR last year but only a 33% quality start rating.
Morton had a -0.8 WAR last year but a 52% Quality start rating.
Niese had a 0.2 WAR but had a 62% Quality start rating.
jimmyz
Niese will be replacing Locke this year…but Morton is entering the last year of his deal and unlikely Bucs give him another multi-year deal. Ideally bucs still get another starter this off season. I’d like them to move Locke to bullpen/swing role/extra depth as his projected 3.5 mil arbitration salary is reasonable and bucs have several whole or extended partial lost pitching seasons from depth in upper minors this year (cumpton, sadler, taillon).
If Niese performs well enough for Bucs to pick up his two options which isn’t terribly unreasonable and with glasnow coming up then Niese will be replacing Morton and slot in as a solid number 4 in 2017 and 18 depending on Bucs resigning Liriano after 17.
Not a bad deal considering Walker was almost certainly going to be traded at deadline if any assets were to be recouped before he left in free agency anyway. Much easier pill to swallow seeing him leave now than in the middle of the season competing for a playoff spot
Robertowannabe
Pirates did ok here. Walker was going to be gone as a free agent after 2016 anyway and the Pirates would have received nothing in return. He will get a pretty large payday from some team really needing a 2b and will over pay for him and glad it will not be the Pirates. He will get a 4 to 5 year deal putting an average (now) 2nd baseman with some history of back issues. He slid some last year and prob will keep sliding into the future. Not complaining at all on this one as no one would trade much for an average player who will be a free agent in 1 year.
Monkey’s Uncle
Agree with everything you said. Walker might be more “valuable” to a team now than Niese. I don’t necessarily think that this will be true in 2 years, especially not if Neil ends up having to move to 1B or DH at some point, which I think he might.
9lives
Niese will fail the physical.
degrominance
LOL so true
degrominance
all said and done the mets got an above average 2b and the bucs got themselves a 4 starter. for what each team needs this is one of the fairest trades ull see this offseason
Monkey’s Uncle
Agree completely as a Bucs fan. People who think the Bucs got hosed are not factoring in how much Walker could command as a free agent after 2016, which will be more than the Bucs should pay for him when they can replace him now with Harrison.
I’m also thinking that Walker is going to be a 1B, not a 2B, before too long: he’s had back issues, is a bigger guy for a 2B, doesn’t have the greatest range now (he fields everything he gets to, though), and he has the additional wear and tear of being a minor league catcher. Walker strikes me as one of those hitters who regresses rather suddenly at some point between ages 32-34 or so. He’s still worth this move for the Mets for at least this coming year.
Would I have ideally liked for the Bucs to get more than Niese for Walker? Sure. But all in all, not a terrible deal.
Robertowannabe
Well said here.. People are thinking of Neil of the last several years and not of Neil in the future. They want to ignore his back issues and potential for it to flare up at least as bad as before or worse. The worst thing the Pirates could have do was to sign a 4 or 5 year deal worth 12 million or so year. and pray his back holds together and he bounces back from 2015 average year to his above average offensive numbers and that he does not continue to decline at all in the field.. A lot to ask of a mid 30’s infielder.