6:19pm: A source tells Salisbury that a trade sending Giles to Houston is “close” but not done yet (Twitter link).
5:15pm: Major League lefty Brett Oberholtzer, whom the Astros have reportedly been shopping, is also being discussed in talks, tweets Salisbury.
4:16pm: Stark reports that talks currently center around well-regarded right-hander Vincent Velasquez and two other prospects (Twitter link).
2:57pm: Salisbury tweets that the Phillies have pushed back their media session for the day, which could be in relation to talks centering around Giles. ESPN’s Jayson Stark tweets that Lance McCullers won’t be included in a deal for Giles, as the Astros are set on keeping him.
2:28pm: Trade talks between the Astros and Phillies centering around brilliant young closer Ken Giles are “heating up,” reports CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury (Twitter link). Houston has long been linked to top-flight relief arms, and Giles would not only give the club a dominant arm to slot into the ninth inning but also a controllable option for that role, as he’s not eligible for free agency until after the 2020 season.
Giles, who turned 25 in late September, took over as closer in Philadelphia following the trade of Jonathan Papelbon and continued to display the dominance he’s exhibited since breaking into the Majors upon being moved to a more prominent role. In 115 2/3 career innings, the former seventh-round pick has a masterful 1.56 ERA with 11.8 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 44.6 percent ground-ball rate. Giles’ fastball has averaged just a shade under 97 mph in the Majors (96.8), so he’d satisfy Houston GM previously stated interest in adding a hard-throwing arm that the back end of the Astros’ bullpen presently lacks.
The asking price on Giles, one would imagine, is exceptionally high. The Red Sox paid the substantial price of Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Carlos Asuaje and Logan Allen for three years of Craig Kimbrel. While Giles doesn’t have Kimbrel’s lengthy track record of dominance in the Majors, he’s delivered comparable results and comes with two more years of control than did Kimbrel, two of which figure to be near the league-minimum in terms of salary. Giles should narrowly fall shy of Super Two status (he currently has one year, 113 days of Major League service time) and won’t be eligible for arbitration until after the 2017 season.
If they get him then good for them!
Come on Yankees, trade Miller straight up for McCullers before the Phillies can trade Giles for McCullers and Velazquez.
The Astros aren’t that dumb. Nearly a zero percent chance they give up two top prospect MLB Ready starters for a closer. Just not gonna happen.
Sorry a 78 ranked prospect isn’t top rated.
Umm…then what is, top 5 prospects and above? Sorry, but Top 100 prospects are top rated prospects.
Is this a sick joke
Deal is done Brian Fisher is part of it.
Derek Fisher. No Brian in their system
I just don’t get this, they’re rebuilding and they’re trying to trade a young dominant closer doesn’t make sense that they sign older arms for the pen to help build the younger guys but why trade the best arm on the team? But what do I know I’m just a run of the mill Phillies fan
Biggest waste of talent on a bad team is a closer
What doesn’t make sense about it? The Phillies aren’t going to win a lot of ballgames next year and Giles would be a luxury the team doesn’t need. Add in the the huge market that has teams overpaying both in trades and free agency, and Giles is a chip too big to hold on to if the right offer comes their way.
Relievers are the most dangerous place to invest a lot in, and Giles is no different. Sure, he’s been great but he could be one pitch away from a torn UCL and missing the next year or more.
The Phillies shouldn’t just trade him for the sake of making a deal, but if they can get a piece like A.J. Reed to headline a package, or McCeullers, then it makes all the sense in the world. In today’s game there are tons of guys who can throw 95+ and who can close. Giles is not someone to build a team around, but rather a chip to be used to better the team for the long-term.
If the phillies go A.J Reed in the deal for Giles then I would take the deal but it all depends on if the astros will trade him
I’m sure they would, but not for a reliever.
They nearly won their division last year… How long are they supposed to wait before adding pieces?
Closers are a luxury for a rebuilding team… The Phillies will get the most out of Giles by trading him away to help speed up the rebuild, and the Astros have the prospects and other players to help do exactly that.
Because a closer is something they do not need right now. They will not contend for the next 2 – 5 years. (Depending on how they want to rebuild. It took the Astros 7 plus years)
They can flip a young closer for two to four prospects that will help expedite the rebuilding process.
If the Phillies can pry Valesquez (a flame throwing starter), Appel, Tony Kemp and Fontana they should jump all over it.
From an Astros fan standpoint, it would be great to have the closer but stings a bit from the loss.
Valesquez throws hard but the Astros have a stockpile of arms.
Appel is a question mark of a prospect. He has had his struggles in the minors but has shown complete dominance when he’s on he’s game.
Tony Kemp is a great young talent that could be a constant is all star games one day. He’s only issue in Houstons organization is Jose Altuve has him blocked.
Fontana is a solid on base kind of guy. He does not always hit for average but he gets on base better than anyone. He can play all 7 positions but is better suited for the infield.
It would be a good haul for the Phillies.
Appel is rated the number two prospect in the Astros organization. If the Astros traded Appel and Kemp for Giles that would be a good haul. The other two players you mentioned would be insanity. FYI, Appel threw a 3 hit shutout to win the AAA championship. He’s almost major league ready and was the former number one pick. He’s progressed slowly, but nothing close to a “question mark” of a prospect.
I have to correct myself, Devenski threw 7 innings scoreless. Appel pitch 5.2 innings giving up 3 ERs with 10 Ks in the previous game. Consensus top 40 prospect in all of baseball.
Any deal for Giles will cost is two pitchers or more. Valesquez is the most coveted on the Astros pitchers not named Dallas or McCullers. So he would be in just about any deal at this point.
I know how great Appel can be. I believe I mentioned his dominance before. But his larger body of work is a question mark. He has a career era of 5.12 in three seasons. His ranking as the number 2 prospect has everything to do with his potential and zero to do with his actual performance. If he has another season like the last three he may fall well out of the Astros top 20 prospect list.
He’s got a long way to fall to get out of the top 20 Astros prospects. He’s got a long way to fall out of the top 100 in all of the mlb too. Kemp could probably make the roster today for the Phillies and Appel’s floor is a low end starter in the mlb. Ceiling is ace. Hence, taking him number one overall two years ago.. Nothing near “question mark”… You want him, he’s not coming over cheap, regardless of performance in the last two years.
If they won’t contend for 2-5 years they should trade Franco and Nola too.
“Because a closer is something they do not need right now. They will not contend for the next 2 – 5 years. (Depending on how they want to rebuild. It took the Astros 7 plus years)”
It took the Astros 5 years. They didn’t start rebuilding until 2010. Drayton McLane kept trying to put band-aids on the problem until then.
If Phillies can get some good prospects in return it’ll be worth it. What good is a closer if your team is going to be losing 100 games going into the 9th.
This makes far more sense for the Astros than Miller. A) Giles is younger and is under team control for another 4 years, B) His asking price is lower than Miller’s C) He doesn’t come with a ridiculous price tag like Miller does
A) his asking price will be just as high if not higher. He is lights out. Younger and under team control
B) millers salary is pretty reasonable for a great closer. 3 years at $27 million. Less than $10 mil a year. In today’s market that’s not bad. The Astros actually offered him more last year before he signed with the Yankees.
Having a dominant closer on a rebuilding team just does not make sense no matter how young he is. If you can get a great package back…then I am really happy as a Phillies fan…gotta love it if McCullers is included.
Not a chance McCullers is included. I can see Velasquez being a part of the package, but not McCullers. It’s going to be Keuchel/McCullers headlining the 2016 rotation.
I don’t want to trade Giles because he’ll still be good by the time the rebuild is over (hopefully) but if we do, we have to get A.J. Reed. There are no first baseman in our system outside of Rhys Hopkins who is at Hi-A
Not a chance Reed goes. You can have singleton though.
Awfully generous. Singleton stinks.
Houston walk away before you overpay!! He doesn’t have enough history for crazy trades!!!
Singleton, Velasquez and Brett Oberholtzer for Giles and Jimmy Cordero could make a lot of sense.
Singleton can replace Howard, Velasquez can slot in with Nola, Thompson and Eickhoff as the future rotation, and Oberholtzer can be a swingman. Phillies do need another LH reliever.
Giles goes and gives that Astros pen a huge boost, and Cordero has a 102 MPH heater and is maybe a year from being a big league reliever.
Actually a solid idea.
Doesn’t quite appear enough for Giles. I don’t believe Singleton has what it takes to succeed at the major league level.
Seems like a feasible trade to discuss.
This is probably one of the better trade proposals I have seen for Giles
As a Phils fan, I’d be beyond disappointed with that deal. Closer of the now and future for two non-prospects and MOR arm? Yikes.
Singleton has the potential to hit 30+ HR is Philadelphia. Could be a good stop gap for them until a better 1B solidifies in Philly. That would also give them room to move Howards contract for nothing. Oberholtzer is a nice arm, and Velasquez makes sense with their rotation. Seems like a fair return on a luxury for the Phillies
I disagree. Singleton looks like a fringe prospect at best. The Phillies are in no rush to move Giles. They could keep him through their rebuild or deal him at any time in the next few years. A package like the one described here would be available for the entirety of Giles years with the Phillies. The only reason to move him would be for 2-3 legit prospects that have a chance to grow with the rest of the Phillies’ minor league core.
Singleton strikes out way too much to ever make it in the big leagues. The Phillies would bench him long before he hits 30 HRs. Oberholtzer is a nice arm who has failed in the big leagues. Velasquez is a mediocre arm. This’d be a terrible return for the Phillies and would really slow down their rebuild and set them back a year or two.
That’s what they said about Ryan Howard, and look what he ended up doing.
Firstly, Giles isn’t a luxury, he’s super cheap, under control until 2020, and already has an elite-level closer track record. The Phils absolutely should not be giving him away. When you look at rumors and the Kimbrel deal, the deal proposed would be akin to giving him away.
Singleton’s AAA numbers mirror Howard’s ML numbers the last couple season and he’s been completely overmatched when he’s been in the bigs. He’s entering this season on his last leg for Houston and they are lining up options because they don’t expect him to ever arrive. Yea, he probably could hit 30 HRs, but he’d strike out 200+ times and have a .190 BA. He also has $6.5 million tied to him so unless he really steps it up, that’s another sunk cost. He’s a non-prospect and would be more of a throw-in to any trade rather than a real piece.
Velasquez is a great starting point for a trade, and Oberholtzer would be a nice throw-in piece, but the the other prospect(s) would need to be closer to Reed-level value than Singleton.
its like you think SIngleton is 25 years old. Hes actually out hit AJ Reed at every level at a younger age and in a tougher ball park. Singleton was held down in AAA last season because they wanted him to spend an entire year there. Singelton struggled to a point in his first year up in the big leagues, but what cant be ignored is he lead the team in walk rate. Right now there is no difference between Reed and Singelton, except one came up and struggled on a bad ball club, with a bad manager at 22 years old.
If Singleton is better than Reed then Astro fans should be happy to keep Singleton and trade Reed.
he doesnt have an elite closer level track record, he has a half season of closing on a bad team track record, there is no high leverage situation there.
Really? Your closer hasn’t even been in the closer role a full season and just mlb for 2. You get a middle of the rotation starter….. You get VV, whom personally I wouldn’t trade straight up for Giles, but seems Luhnow is hell bent on getting a closer rather than making one. Singleton who hasn’t broke out yet…. but still has a great updside as a 1st baseman? Im good….. keep them, we don’t need to trade.
This is not a reasonable trade for Philadelphia. Singleton has not proven anything in the majors and it is difficult to still call him a viable prospect. Obelhozer is not a prospect either; he’s more of a bad no 5 starter with terrible peripherals. Philadelphia is no rush for major league talent; I think they’re going to want actual young players with upside.
This! Singleton might have almost no value. I like the possibility of him going to the Phillies, but with his drug problems and lack of production in the majors, he’s probably not going to bring anything back that is significant. Taking on a little money with Singleton should actually improve the list of players coming back to the Phillies. Something like Appel, Kemp, and Singleton.
Uh, you expect the Phillies to reacquire Singleton? I don’t think so, my friend. Additionally, no way they’d give up Cordero… reason we have him is so he can probably replace Giles in our bullpen in the future.
Not happening. Would be Reed over singleton. Obelhozer not an asset. Don’t forget the Amaro Regime is gone. Those days are over. We have a Sebermetrics GM now. Which is why I say Singleton has no chance. Keep in mind the Phils actually wield the hammer in these talks. They have all of the leverage. It will take Vasquez and Reed. Or vaz and Appel and someone else. We will see. But with talks heating up we may have another team jump in. Only thing I am happy about is its not Amaro. lol
Phils don’t have leverage. You can suck this year and next year with or without Giles. If you actually want to get better start trading mlb players for more prospects.
You’re right. The Phillies will stink even if they made the trade. The Astros need Giles to win. How do the Astros have any leverage?
Astros won without Giles last year.
Great. Then they should be happy to win without him this year. Just because the Astros won without him doesn’t mean they should get him for pennies on the dollar.
Enjoy last place with an above average closer.
To answer your original question, Astros have leverage because they have a stocked farm system. Including three first round picks from this past year that will be major league ready by the time the Phils are ready to compete. They can also go elsewhere, like to New York to get Miller or to Tampa to get Boxberger or Jepsen. They can acquire a young closer giving up less than what you probably want, like AJ Reed.
You win some games for the first time in forever and all of a sudden get mouthy? Wow. You’re right. The Phillies will just give Houston whatever they want just because. And they’ll stay in last place for years to come apparently if we were to believe you…
How don’t they have leverage? They control the wanted commodity and they have 4 years to trade him. You want him now, the Phillies would want a package they want, i.e. Leverage.
Bud, the Astros rebuilding process saw them lose 100 games three straight years. Phils lost 99 games, but lets remember, they had a rotation following Hamels including Jerome Williams, Sean O’Sullivan, Dustin McGowan and Kevin Correia during the first half and they were managed by Sandberg. Mackanin comes along and in the second half, we start out 17-8, then stay competitive until Franco got beaned.
The Astros want a player on the Phillies. The same player all 29 other clubs would like to have. The Phils have control of the player for the next 5 years, min. But the Astros have the leverage? lol. Is your reasoning is because they are the Astros? Or something similar?
The leverage is because Ken Giles is a reliever and relievers only have so much value, stupid Craig Kimbrel trade non-withstanding.
It’s all relative. If you want certain guys that is considered too steep, then you move on to Boxberger or Jepsen of the Rays. If the Phils were serious about improving their system now while there is high interest from a team with a deep farm system, then you have to be reasonable about the return, if not, there are other closers available. Phils can move him mid season for a greater return. It looks like the asking price right now is Oberholtzer, Velasquez and probably someone in the minors that’s almost mlb ready if not ready but can’t get on the roster with the Astros currently. Phils could end up getting a top 5 prospect in the Stros system, all those guys with the exclusion of Appel are at least one year away from the bigs. I would not trade AJ Reed, McCullers or Appel for a closer which seems to be the case. Hopefully a deal gets done soon because this third player could be Tony Kemp or Bregman, I have no idea… As far as I’m concerned, Astros are in the drivers seat here.
Cordero would most likely be the Phillies closer if Giles is traded, so I don’t see them trading both Giles and Cordero.
Yeah, Singleton can step right into Howard’s shoes of striking out every other AB and playing a poor 1B. He’d be cheaper than Howard for sure, but still roughly double the league minimum thanks to the extension he signed with the Astros before reaching the majors. He’s just an expensive minor leaguer at this point.
Houston get him now, before the Dodgers!
watch the Astros pull this off without including McCullers or Velasquez …and watch them get Knapp with Giles.
Velasquez is a former Phillie prospect, correct? Maybe something like Velasquez, Joe Musgrove, and another top 20 system prospect.
Nope. Velasquez was drafted by the Astros.
I’m pretty sure VV wasn’t, but Singleton was our first round pick a few years back. I was so upset when they traded him initially, it’s be crazy if he made his way back to Philly.
I suspect the Phillies come away with Velazquez and Feliz/Appel.. Which is perfect for them to pair with Nola and Thompson.
i doubt they will get 3 Sp out of it. they will def get some talent tho.
I really have ZERO desire to see Houston pull the trigger on a closer trade. Use VV in the bullpen and see if he can pan out as a closer……It’s totally asinine for the Astros to sell the farm for a closer!
they are not going to sell the farm. did you see what Kimbrel brought? Giles is young and under control . the Astros need arms in the bull pen. The Phillies should be trilled to get VV. he is going to be a great arm in that rotation with Nola for years to come
Kimbrel brought in a ton. Padres got the farm. Just so happens that BoSox are loaded in the prospect department so it doesn’t look as bad.,
Did you see what Carsaon Smith brought., He was better than Giles this year.
Carson Smith was no where near as good as Giles. Higher ERA says it all.
Of course you want to trade a mediocre arm who can’t even make the Astros rotation for a top closer. Astro fans only want to give up players who are second and third tier. I understand that. Why give up someone good?
Disagree, the Phillies are still 2-3 years away from competing. By getting 2 high ceiling (VV
I’m kind of glad Yanks are not involved in this. Miller is a great closer and I belive we could ge SP by trading one of our OF’s.
Any rumors on Storen or Papelbon yet?
They had better hold out for the moon and stars on this one…he’s a stud and looks like will be another Kimbrel level guy…they’ll have him for a lot more time, why not build around him?
Building around a reliever, no matter how good they are, is not something a rebuilding team does. Relievers are volatile on both a performance and health based level, more so than any other position in baseball, and even at their very best aren’t worth a whole lot compared to other players. For reference, baseball’s top reliever last year, according to fWAR was Cody Allen with 2.6 fWAR. That contribution was matched by the likes of Edinson Volquez, Mike Fiers, and Wade Miley. and exceeded by the likes of Ubaldo Jimenez, Yordano Ventura, and J.A. Happ, and all 6 of them were decidedly mediocre last year (though Happ was absolutely outsanding in Pittsburgh).
A good closer is a luxury the Phillies don’t need. Sure, another bullpen arm like Giles may not come along again, but there are plenty of other players who you can send out to close the 9th inning and post a sub-3.00 ERA. They don’t even have to throw hard, as evidenced by the success of Luke Gregerson and Shawn Tolleson last year. That doesn’t mean they should trade him for just anything, but if the right offer comes along, they should pull the trigger. Who know’s how long Giles’ success and/or health will last anyway?
Why not use Velasquez in the bullpen?
I suggested that last year. Astros want a flamethrower in the pen, Velesquez can’t make the rotation, why not see if he can relieve?
My Velasquez, Oberholtzer and SIngleton proposal is 2/3rds the way there! lol
That would be a steal for the Astros. All dispensable players. May work out for the Phils too.
I think the last prospect will be higher rated than Singleton though.
Solid trade proposal man!
Third piece is supposed to be another pitcher. Hopefully I’m wowed and it’s Appel. If it’s not, it’s gonna be a disappointing haul for me (and most Phils fans I’ve seen comment on the rumors).
Don’t like how this is shaping already
Dont give up mcculler.
Absolutely LOVE this trade for the Astros. Gilies is great, but they also got rid of oberholtzer and even though Velasquez is a good prospect, I never saw him as a front of the rotation pitcher.