Not only did the Cardinals lose out on Jason Heyward – they lost out while offering the most overall money, according to Derrick Goold of the Post-Dispatch. Two sources tell Goold that the Cardinals’ offer was greater in guaranteed value while the Cubs had the higher annual average value, at $23MM/year. As Goold notes, this marks the second time this winter that the Cardinals made a serious run at one of the winter’s top free agents and came up short. The other instance, of course, being their failed pursuit of David Price.
Here’s a roundup of reactions to Heyward’s massive new deal with the Cubs:
- The Cubs’ signing of Jason Heyward has left the Cardinals feeling jilted, Benjamin Hochman of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes. Now, the Cardinals must move on and add at least one significant piece, Hochman opines. The writer suggests that the Cards should sign Alex Gordon toplay right field or first base, with Stephen Piscotty playing the other.
- Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports discussed Cubs president Theo Epstein, who now finds himself at the helm of baseball’s newest juggernaut. Within the article, Rosenthal writes that rival execs say Epstein has long been fixated on Heyward, going back to his early days with the Braves. Rosenthal also feels that the Cubs were motivated to sign Heyward and Lackey, in part, because they were effectively taking pieces away from the rival Cardinals.
- Things have changed in Chicago, as evidenced by the free agent additions of Heyward, Lackey, and Ben Zobrist, Patrick Mooney of CSNChicago.com writes. Back in November, Epstein says that he didn’t envision the Cubs being able to do two deals in the range of $100MM this offseason. Things quickly changed, however.
- The Cubs now have a monster lineup headlined by Heyward, Phil Rogers of MLB.com writes.
Mo and the cardinal staff are still doing nothing to better the team. They are just sitting there licking there wounds instead of picking there self up and trying to better the team to compete.
Yeah, the season is starting in almost 3 and half months, they need to hurry!!!
They really should not make a move just because the cubs made a move. The cards’ outfield is fine, with holladay in left, grichuk in center, and piscotty in right with Pham as a way above average backup. They could use one starting pitcher seeing as they lost lackey and Lynn, but they have waino coming back, so you must consider that as well. The cards will be just fine.
Agreed, they could get Davis too but they’re probably a 90+ win postseason team as-is.
HA. They at definitely not a 90 win team at the moment
donniebaseball: Losing Heyward, Lackey, Lynn, they need to replace 12.7 WAR just to be at where they were last year. This is not even mentioning the fact that the Cubs picked up two of those players and thus are going to be better next year than they were this year…
They are not just fine right now.
Just Another Fan: They are not a 90+ win team. Do not get me wrong, I love the Cardinals and spend far too much time watching 145+ games a year, but I am realistic and they do need to make some moves. That being said, there is time before spring training starts, but I fear they are waiting for FA asking prices to drop and that may result in them missing out on more players.
The teams are moving more toward war stats like Edwin Starr hit song in the late 70’s WAR it’s followed by what is it good for absolutely nothing. So true asDave Stewart says use your eye test. Must fans agree.
I think it’s too soon to say they’re just sitting there. Cubs were in on Price too and failed, and I am glad. I have a hard time imagining a player actually being worth $30+M a year. That’s pretty much 1 pitcher for the price of 2 SOLID pitchers. I’ll take the quantity over the slightly better quality any day.
As for Heyward…. yeah, he burned the Cards which as a Cub fan makes the deal even sweeter. But it’s not like Justin Upton….. Yoenis Cespedes…. AND Alex Gordon aren’t just sitting there for the taking. If the Cards want to blow some money they could sign all 3 and have a pretty nasty OF. They’ll definitely sign 1 of the 3 and Cards fans can’t be too upset about it. All three are quality players.
Johnny Cueto is also still a possibility and so is Mike Leake. Both are good pitchers. IMO I think while it comes with more risk, signing Cueto is going to likely be the better deal. I don’t see Cueto getting much more than $22M AAV. With Samardzija getting an AAV of $19.5M after 2016; Leake should get more one would think. So maybe like a 4-5 year deal for Leake at an insane $100M for a #3….. maaaaybe #2 quality SP. I see Cueto getting about 5 years and $115-120M. If Cueto thinks he’ll get more he’ll be rotting away on the free agent market until spring training. It has been shown in the past that the longer a player waits the less they’ll eventually get… right, James Shields.
One thing is certain….. like always the Cardinals will be a good team. They always seem to be good even if they are a team that lacks a superstar quality player. It’s nauseating really, haha. While the Heyward deal makes me thrilled because I think he is finally just hitting his stride as an offensive player to be reckoned with, and that playing in Wrigley I think he’ll become a 20-20 player with a solid BA in the .280+ neighborhood and as always a solid OBP to go along with his stellar defense……… I am not too thrilled about Lackey. The Cards just had Lackey’s best year of his career…. at age 36. Very hard to imagine he can repeat that quality at least once more in the next 2 years and much more likely he reverts back to his career averages which are more Samardzija/Leake-like…… meh. Still a (hopefully) solid #3 pitcher, but definitely not this rotation of 3 Ace-quality arms the media and some of my Cub fan brethren think it will be with Arrieta, Lester, and Lackey. I’m still holding out hope for a Cubs trade with Cleveland consisting of Soler, McKinney, and Vogelbach for Danny Salazar. Throw Coghlan in RF for a year or two until Almora is ready to play CF (and slide Heyward to RF). Still a potent offense with Coghlan and actually a bit better defensively. Their rotation would then be SICK with Arrieta, Lester, Salazar, Lackey, and Hendricks. One can hope.
cueto ain’t never gonna be a cardinal
So he will be a Cardinal?
The thing is, Upton/Cespedes/Gordon do not provide a massive upgrade over the Cards current outfield options (Holliday/Grichuk/Piscotty/Pham) like Heyward would have. The Cards have average options and now what is available are above-average options, netting only a slight upgrade. Heyward was an elite option and provided a massive upgrade.
I fully agree that the one move that has to be made is signing Cueto. He is the only FA now that would provide that massive upgrade for the Cards. Yet, though both sides say they are over the 2010 incident…I have my doubts.
didn’t happen, i’m glad
1. Heyward CF
2. Zobrist 2B
3. Rizzo 1B
4. Bryant 3B
5. Schwarber LF
6. Soler RF
7. Montero C
8. Arrieta/Lester/Lackey/Hendricks/Hammel
9. Russell SS
Thats a heck of a lineup…
Heyward shouldn’t be lead off. He’s a better #2 or #5 hitter. He shouldn’t be in lead off.
.353 OBP for his career, plus he can steal come bases, I wouldn’t completely be against it.
If he doesn’t go leadoff, would you go with Zobrist?
Addison Russell might be the greatest #9 hitter in history this coming season, lol
1. Russell SS
2. Heyward CF
3. Zobrist 2B
4. Rizzo 1B
5. Bryant 3B
6. Schwarber LF
7. Soler RF
8. Arrieta/Lester/Lackey/Hendricks/Hammel
9. Montero C
But it honestly doesn’t even matter who goes where, everyone’s ceiling is sky-high.
One thing you know is that no lineup will be set in stone with Maddon as your manager. I would start the season with Heyward at the leadoff. This lineup is so loaded that I would want to let Russell slip under the radar for a few weeks just so he can get his feet wet and get established. Eventually, I think you are right, Russell would be the better leadoff hitter
Just based on history, he’s a good #3 or #5 hitter. No reason why he wouldn’t be good at 2 though. With some of the Cubs free swingers, he’d be good in the five hole… he’s a better contact-type guy to drive some runners in.
They also have currently have a bench of Coghlan, Baez, Ross, La Stella.
Hammel and Baez probably gets them Tyson Ross or similar SP too.
Not to mention totally blocked and expendable guys like Alcantara, Vogelbach, Zagunis, McKinney & Happ. They could package all those guys in a deal for a high quality SP, or if a serious injury happened to one of their regulars, they have enough prospect firepower to cover anything.
The Cubs current situation is drool-worthy not only for Cubs fans, fans of the game, and even fans who hate them. They have set themselves up perfectly, and Theo Epstein seals his place in the HOF if he gets them a title too.
I can see them trading Vogelbach since he is blocked by Rizzo. Maybe send him and Baez to the indians rays or padres for a pitcher.
You might get Ross for McKinney and maybe Baez. McKinney has quite a bit of value, though I am beginning to question how much the other 29 teams value Baez. Vog probable has a reasonable amount of value also but pipeline doesn’t paint a pretty picture on his fielding even though he is only 1B.
Along with Vog, Zagunis and Happ don’t list in Pipelines top 100 prospects which is what you will need if the Cubs want Ross.
Vogelbach has limited trade value on his own because his body is questionable – he’s most likely going to be a big league DH. But his eye is no joke. He’s a great piece to have available to deal.
I’d be fine with Moving 4-5 pieces for a guy like Teheran or Salazar.
Because we have an embarrassment of riches in the minors.
Seems like Theo and Jed were racking up on guys with good batting eyes.
Mark Zagunis has a career .411 avg obp in two season in the minors.
Dan Vogelbach has a career .382 avg obp in four season in the minors.
And these guys aren’t listed in the top ten of our prospects.
I don’t really want them all traded but some guys are totally blocked.
Hope they get a chance elsewhere.
what kind of package would they have to make to say getting sonny gray or chris sale?
Bryant or Russell and a slew of minor leaguers. It ain’t happening.
I think they could trade Schwarber and get the deal started
@angelsfanforlife
The Cubs internally feel that schwarber is their best hitter. They aren’t trading him.
Yea I know, not happening I saw an article that Schwarber could be traded for a pitcher but not happening, It’s possible that Solar or Baez brings in another impact arm
Neither Gray or Sale is getting traded this offseason, its pointless to talk about, especially when there’s so many SPs out there who actually ARE on the trade table.
Since Sale and Gray are off the table, I think Salazar would be the next best fit for them.
I agree with all the guys saying they aren’t getting moved.
Gray is the likely of the two but not going to happening.
Need to find a team on a rebuild or
find a team out there desperate for offense to get anything now a days.
For the last time, the White Sox are NOT trading Chris Sale. In order to even get the conversation started, Jed would have to have Bryant as the headliner and then just keep adding players until Hahn says “stop.”
Sale is going to rot on the south side till he walks. And I wouldn’t do sale for Bryant straight up. fWAR Bryant is 6.8 – Sale fWAR 6.5. Bryant is more valuable than sale and it’s just his rookie year
Schwarber can’t catch a beach ball. All teams hit to left
Except they might move soler ..baez too..so a prospect package prob for them as well. Tough lineup for sure. Just wish they could beat the cardinals next year. Cardinals will still take the h2h next year.
No I don’t think so
My projected Lineup with soler possible being moved.
Zobrist CF/2B
Schwarber LF
Rizzo 1B
Bryant 3B
Heyward RF
Baez 2B/CF
Montero C
Pitcher spot
Russel SS
How much of the Cards offer would be lost to taxes though?
Not nearly as much as he’ll lose for playing in Illinois.
Wrong. Illinois’ top tax rate is 3.8%, Missouri’s is 6%.
2015 income tax rate in Illinois is 3.75%, Missouri is 6.0%.
Not sure exactly what the Cards’ offer was, but on the $184MM the Cubs offered it’s a difference of about $2.8MM over the life of the contract without doing anything complicated like calculating federal taxes and exempting that cash from the state taxes, which would make it a bit less.
Significant to mere mortals, but I doubt it was all that significant to a guy about to make $184MM.
Math’d it wrong. The non-complicated difference was $2.3MM, not $2.8MM.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
You actually did it wrong again, the uncomplicated number is 4.1 M. But as jedi pointed out, players have to pay depending where they their team is playing, so that eliminates about half the difference (of course that gets complicated due to the unbalanced schedule). And you are also correct that they can deduct it from federal income tax. So the final number is probably going to be between 1-2 million over the course of the contract.
this is wrong as only half the games get played in illinois. so it is half the number you mentioned, as they get taxed whatever state tax’s are for the state they play road games in.
I’m no astronaut, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works
Don’t for the city of STL has a 1% earnings tax along with the normal state and local taxes. So whatever Heyward would earn in STL would be much less than what you’re expecting.
As a braves fan, he’s painful to watch in lead off!
In 2014, he hit mostly leadoff, spent the rest of his time hitting fifth. His numbers were basically the same.
I would like to hear his reasoning behind going to the Cubs. That seems like a lot of money to leave on the table. It would be understandable if he was coming from a loser but the Cardinals are perennially one of the toughest playoff teams in baseball. Also, as a Mets fan I feel that Flushing mirrored a lot of the good qualities as the south side. I wonder if he was all about the Cubs or if another young promising team could have enticed him
Because the Cubs are better? Did you see the Cubs knock them off this year in the playoffs? This offseason one team has gotten better and one has gotten worse.
Every player that is on the team when they win for the first time in 100+ years will be forever etched in baseball and American history. That’s why
maybe because the cubs gave him an opt out clause and the cards didnt
Seems obvious to me that a 3 year opt-out is the reason over anything else.
He can add an extra who knows how much to that contract (50 mil? 100mil?) if he signs a new deal at 29 at 2018 free agent prices, instead of 2015’s prices.
BTW the 2018-19 FA class is unlike anything MLB has ever seen: Harper, Donaldson, Kershaw, Keuchel, Harvey, Fernandez, Price, Machado, Brantley, Kimbrel, Rosenthal, Miller, McCutchen, Jones, Kang, Heyward, Perkins, Ade-Gon, Cruz, Pollock, Pence, Wainwright, Richards, Corbin, Miller, Dozier, Grandal, Gordon and many, many more….
Any team could stock up on elite talent that year and turn into a contender.
by then the phillies could be ready to contend and be big buyers
No, only teams with unlimited payroll.
Several of those players will be 35 or older in 2018. It’s a strong class, but there’s a lot of guys who won’t get monstrous contracts.
Also, you’d have to guess a handful sign extensions, and some fizzle out/get injured.
By the time we take all those pieces out, it’s about as strong as this year’s class.
The Cubs are set to contend for the next 5+ years. The Cardinals are not as sure a bet to do that.
Income tax is a flat 3.75% in Illinois. That’s decent for anyone with a high income. Now the sales and property taxes are a different story, but I think Heyward can handle them.
More overall money is a disingenuous argument that ignores the fundamental point that the Cubs signed Heyward to a 3 year contract.
He’ll either get a bigger deal when he can opt out, or he’ll go somewhere else in the good scenarios, or the Cubs will be eating an overpriced contract in the bad ones.
To me this is a fundamentally different thing when teams are offering a guy a long term deal but he only wants the illusion of a long-term deal for the team and a short term deal for the player. He will never earn 184 million from the Cubs unless it’s a bad deal for the Cubs.
Exactly. He makes $23 mil per for 3 or 4 years. If he improves he takes another bite at the apple. If he disappoints he’s got guaranteed jack for 8. Perfect for him. I don’t see him doing well in center though. He’s not very graceful but has an absolute cannon.
With so much of Heywards value coming from a defensive standpoint, how much is it going to be effected by switching positions? I know he’s played CF in the past but to small of a sample size to know if he can handle the position.
Heyward steals bases, hits for a high average, gets on base and does everything except hit for a lot of power currently, and he hasnt entered his prime. Get out of this thread with that ” so much of Heywards value coming from a defensive standpoint” – a truly laughable comment. Heyward has 4 tools and he has shown glimpses of 5 if the power comes around.
i would argue this has been his prime as most value is derived from defense and baserunning, and those age the quickest. probably 2 more prime years and he will start to lose the defensive and baserunning value little by little.
Heyward is a 3 tool player and nowhere near a 5 tool player. The majority of his WAR comes from his defense with his OBP and ability on the base paths adding to it. He’s a career .268 hitter (a far cry from a high BA) with no pop in his bat. My original comment isn’t a knock on Heyward. Love watching him play RF. It was me just wondering if his GREAT defense in RF takes a hit switching positions. If you disagree with my opinion, why don’t you check out his stats and what 90% of the people that get paid to evaluate baseball players have to say about where his value lies
What 5 tools are you talking about? You think .268 career BA is high(I think that might be you)? My comment wasn’t to slight Heyward or his abilities. I love watching him play RF. Question was how is his defense is going to play in CF? If you disagree with the majority(meaning most) of his value comes from his defense then do a little research.
“If you disagree with the majority(meaning most) of his value comes from his defense then do a little research.”
That’s ironic.
What’s ironic about it?
That it’s incorrect.
fangraphs
2015 – 56.84% offense:Defense 43.16%
Career – ~60:40
As a Cardinals fan I can honestly say I’m excited about this Cubs team, in my opinion this is the best rivalry in sports and both teams being this good is going to give it the attention it deserves. Cards just need a power bat and a starting pitcher, all these “fans” saying we already lost in the offseason need to have some faith in Mozeliak.
I think it this way, the cards do nothing and they still win the central. But the cubs improved a lot. And can’t sleep on the pirates either.
in what alternate universe will the cards win the central? Is that you homer? The cards better do something to improve or they will be like the 2014 cubs record. The pirates are very tough have lost nothing and will be strong again in 2016 but the cards better improve there lineup before 4-1-16 or this will be a rough year for them.
The cardinals are one team that I never count out, no matter what the losses are, they always find a way to win, but losing heyward lynn and lackey is going to hurt them, Moz needs to make some moves, I still see the cubs making another move or 2
“Is that you homer?” Hello, pot. Meet kettle.
The reality is the Cubs are far worse than you think they are while the Cardinals are far better than you think too. Waino is back for a full season, C-Mart will pitch for a full season, and the Cardinals will amost certainly bring in another starter. Grichuk showed 20+ HR potential and he’ll be around for a full season as will Piscotty. The Cardinals can be at least as good as last year.
The Cubs had a terrible offseason where they focused on name value over talent. Zobrist is 35 and has been declining for years now, not to mention he’s not even projected by Baseball-Reference to play the whole season next year. Lackey had the best season of his career ERA wise. His FIP was 3.56 and he’s 37. He’s been a 180 IP/3.70 ERA starter for a few seasons prior to 2015. He had a good contract year, and next year will be reality.
Heyward is worse defensively in CF than RF. He hit less than 15HR the last 2 years and is a career .268 hitter. He MAY get better or may just as easily be the same player in 2016, How about the inconssitent Hector Rondon and the bullpen that is highly suspect? The fact is the Cubs likely only beat the Cardinals because of injuries to Waino, C-Mart and Holliday. They got easily swept by the Mets who are in every category the superior team.
If the cards signed Johnny cueto ,chris davis, and alex gordon they would finish the season 3rd in the central and miss the playoffs.
I don’t see the Cards signing Cueto, I really think he ends up with the dodgers. Only way they get davis is if they trade matt adams. I think Alex Gordon ends up with the cards or angels.
the cards can stand pat and finish 3rd in the central as it is. I know the dodgers will likely be the winning bidder of cueto. The cards wouldn’t have to trade Adams to sign Davis but he would be out of position if they did sign him. I can see the cards getting Gordon but that lineup will still be bad with or without all 3 additions that I said earlier. I would have to start a mini rebuild If I was MOZ something that would take 2-3 years when the cubs may start losing some stud players then they MAY become relevant again.
They need to do something because right now the cubs look like they are the early favorites to win it all in 2016, And the pirates are still looking for pitching and a bat to play first, I saw they could be in on Napoli
Theo has really “poked the bear” this off season. I point this out because the Cardinals are a very corporate, business style team. At this point, the team who has won the division the last three years is playing with a chip on its shoulders. It will certainly be more entertaining watching these 2 teams play for the next few years.
Their core is getting older, but don’t write them off just yet. Everyone had the Nats winning the WS for the last 3 years…talent alone doesn’t win the division or WS. Luck and staying healthy are factors as well.
Actually the last 3 years I had the Cardinals the team to beat in the national league because they are always there.
I’d be shocked if heyward doesn’t opt out in 3 years, and he probably feels the same, so that’s probably why he went with the Cubs- higher AAV over the 3 years.
Good time to be a Sox fan in Chitown
Alex Gordon at first base? 4 gold gloves in the last 5 years. I think he would most definitely be the one in the outfield, especially with Piscotty playing first last year.
I agree donniebaseball he will opt out if he has 3 good years at 23 mil per in 2018 he could probably get another 8 year deal worth around 200+ mil. and laugh all the way to retirement.. Then the cubs will have almora ready defensively and offensively ready to take over and the cubs will get a draft pic for jhey then after they have won 1-3 world series trophys. I cant remember a better stacked team in my life. Pitching could always improve as they get older.
You think the cubs are gonna win A world series? 3 ? Lol.
I really wanna see the cubs win a world series in my lifetime, theo built a monster this year, adding heyward lackey and zobrist, and could be adding more
This messaging system on the app is ridiculous. I make a reply to a comment and the comment ends up in some other place
Unrealistic but could happen.
Just a fan and wishful thinking.
Let it go.
If you want to go against the sabremetric people, odds makers and the general concenses of the majority of baseball people combined well you might need to have your head examined.
oh and LOL yes a worlds series or 3.
I have no idea why the Cardinals have not even called up Mark Buehrle’s agent yet. He’d probably play for them for peanuts. With Lynn out, at least you’d be guaranteed 200IP, low to mid 3 ERA, exceptional defense, and he can hold a running game. As a White Sox fan, maybe I’m a homer, but Buehrle truly is one of the most unappreciated players in baseball. Kenny wouldn’t cough up 4/$48M for him and instead gave 5/$75M to Danks. I’m still miffed about that,
Do it Mozeliak, contact Buehrle and Alex Gordon. You won’t overcome the Cubs next year, but at least you’ll still be in the WC chase.
Buehrle would be a good guy to get for sure. He will probably be able to out preform Lackey next year. I would never bet against Buehrle he could be awesome in stl and is a good clubhouse guy and mentor to young pitchers.
Everyone is acting like its a foregone conclusion that the Cubs will at least be NL Central and most likely World Series champs. They’re an incredible looking team on paper, but remember a very important fact; games and seasons aren’t won on paper. Remember the preseason 2015 Washington Nationals? The Dodgers in recent years? Compared to what the Giants and Cardinals have done the past 5-6 years. They’ve never had the prettiest rosters, but they always find ways to win.
No you’re just reading it that way.
Everyone knows that you don’t win anything on paper.
They’re talking about what could happen down the road.
You and the others who talk about the “on paper” stuff aren’t geniuses for pointing it out.
like
Pointing out the other side of the debate doesn’t require a genius. The elephant in the room is that 80% of Cub nation assumes the division is theirs, and 3 1/2 months of the off season remain.
Cubs got swept in the LCS last year. It’s as if that part of the playoffs never happened or something?
Source?
All these people downing the Cardinals as being out if they don’t make moves are naive. Last seas on the Cardinals were missing their 3 hitter for the majority of the year, their number 1 starter for the entire year, their 4 hitter for almost the entire year, and their captain and MVP was a shell of himself in their playoff series. Despite all of these things they still won 100 games and the division for the 3Rd straight year. The health of this ball club stands to be the biggest improvement of either team. In a relatively small sample size Stephen Piscotty has demonstrated that he may be able to outperform the 23 million dollar a year Jason Heyward.
thats funny I needed a hard laugh. Thanks
Grow up.
I was laughing really hard when you guys locked up a right fielder to play center and paid 23 million for a player who hit 6th for us last year when the starters were healthy. And let’s not forget that was in his pending free agency year when traditionally players have the best yr of the careers. The facts are you got almost the equivalent production from Dexter Fowler last yr. In some respects it was even better. But hey we will be happy to draft the next Wacha or Piscotty with your comp picks.
True callmenate
How is Fowler’s production equivalent or “even better”? Dingers?
If telling yourselves that Heyward is bad makes you feel better, go for it.
Piscotty could outperform heyward offensively, but definitely not defensively. I agree, the cards will benefit greatly if they can all stay relatively healthy next year.
Why accept a contract for less than other teams offered?
There was more on the table here than just a multi-million dollar contract and any smart player and agent sees it. The players making up the team that finally wins a world series for the Cubs will never be forgotten. They will write books and sell millions just because they were part of that team. There will be movies about it, offers for endorsements for everything imaginable. You will be a permanent houseguest of Bill Murray and John Cusack. Unless you do something incredibly stupid afterwards you will have more wealth coming your way the rest of your life than you can imagine. Not so if you win for the Cardinals or the Yankees. The “Story” has been built up by media for so long its worth taking a chance by making a few million less right now and maybe, just maybe my name will be a part of history that will be replayed for decades. No matter if you or I don’t care that much ourselves….The Cubs have a Huge, Huge following and its getting bigger every day.
the new cardinal, justin morneau
Every year someone counts the Cardinals out, and seriously, every year they do better than expected. I dont see any reason why that should change in 2016. Yes the Cubs have improved tremendously and have a scary offense, but the Cards win even without that. And look at the Dodgers, every year they spend money, and every year they miss the WS. You cant say for certain the Cubs win the division and WS, season hasnt started yet. And theres still time for Mo to sign someone, even though he really doesnt need to. They win every year with what they got, so dont ever count them out.
I also think it is naive to just assume the Cards can go out there and produce every year without adding to what they have. They have only subtracted this off season (so far).
Good reading: vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-a…
They also had 100 wins last year. They are adding waino since he amazingly didn’t play last year, so if they add one starter they should be set. Unless they overpay in a trade for top player at his position, the cards can really only make marginal upgrades through free agency.
You don’t base an upcoming year on the w/l total from your previous year. There is too much sequencing that occurs over the course of a season and the other teams’ rosters change as well.
On top of that, they also had an unrepeatable strand rate.
By no means am I, at least, going to say the Cubs are going to win the world series. Anyone who does is a fool IMO. As a Cub fan my cub fan brethren should know better by now…… I mean c’mon. Having said that though, this is the most confidence I have had in this team in my 29 years of existence. I don’t remember the Cubs ever having this complete of a team. Their offense right now on paper is just nasty. If all their young guys from last year just repeat what they did last year or just slightly improve, this team not only hits for a solid BA, but it gets on base at a high rate and has the potential to hit 195 or so HRs…… and that’s just the starting 8. I think Heyward and Zobrist can combine for 35 HRs, Rizzo 35, Bryant 35, Schwarber 35, Soler 20, Montero 15, Russell 20.
Nice seeing players like Lester, Lackey,Heyward taking less to have fun with Maddon madness I think David Price talked a good game but the money over management his judgement good luck in bean town haha
Well, after the Greinke deal, Price looks like he took a discount with Boston, haha. He also has the option to opt out after 3 years so it isn’t too late for him to join the Cubs bandwagon. Just might have to wait a few years. He’ll make his $90M in 3 years with Boston. If he’s still good in 3 years entering his age 34 season (yikes) and having 4 years and $127 mil still on the table, I wouldn’t be too opposed to adding him if he took the same money but on a 5 year deal. It would be a discount in terms of AAV going from $31.75M to $25.4M, but he’d be getting paid for an additional year….. and he’d get to reunite with Maddon……. I just doubt the Cubs would want, nor would I probably want, a 34 year old Price at $25 M and have to pay him that through his age 38 season…….. good luck boston.
Frankly, the most jilted is Benjamin Hochman
The most jilted is Benjamin Hochman and not the Cardinals
Although Wrigley is hitter friendly and he is coming off a down season, I feel like Teheran is a good fit for the Cubs
Therean is a horrible fit for Wrigley. For his CAREER his ground ball rate is a pathetic 37%. To be clear that is his ground ball rate, not fly ball rate. 22-37-41 that’s his line drive – ground ball – fly ball rate splits for his career. 63% chance a hit ball off him is a line drive or fly ball…….. that’s back end rotation quality.