Here’s the latest from the ATL…
- The Diamondbacks have “pushed on” Shelby Miller in talks with the Braves, ESPN’s Buster Olney reports (via Twitter). Atlanta, meanwhile, seems to be focused on outfielders, particularly A.J. Pollock. Olney wonders if this could lead to an expanded deal between the two clubs; for the record, the D’Backs has already turned down at least two offers from the Braves involving Pollock and Miller. It could be more likely that Arizona won’t deal Pollock at all, as team CEO Derrick Hall recently intimated, especially now that the D’Backs seem to be aiming to contend in 2016 after signing Zack Greinke. This could mean that other outfielders like Ender Inciarte or David Peralta could be floated by the Snakes as trade bait in order to land Miller, though this is just my speculation.
- The Braves have interest in catcher Tyler Flowers, MLB.com’s Mark Bowman reports. The White Sox non-tendered Flowers earlier this week rather than pay him a $3.5MM salary (as projected by MLBTR) in the arbitration process. Flowers was originally drafted by Atlanta in the 33rd round of the 2005 draft before being traded to Chicago as part of the Javier Vazquez deal in December 2008. If the Braves did bring him into the fold, Flowers would not only be rejoining his original club but also his old White Sox battery mate in A.J. Pieryzynski. Atlanta has been rumored to be looking for more catching options due to dissatisfaction with Christian Bethancourt’s development.
- The Braves announced on Thursday that Bobby Cox has signed a two-year extension to continue acting as a consultant for the team (hat tip to Buster Olney). Cox signed a five-year consulting contract after retiring as the Braves’ manager following the 2010 season, and this new deal will keep him in the fold through the 2017 campaign.
Braves fan here. Pollack too much for Miller straight up, Miller too much for Inciarte or Peralta SU. Other pieces will be needed it this is going down.
If I had to choose between the two, I’d prefer Peralta.
Peralta has been more productive, but Ender is 3 years younger.
Peralta or Inciarte for Miller would seem fair. 5 years of control for both. 3.7 and 5.3 WAR to Millers 3.6. Inciarte is the younger guy with better defense.
Both have incredibly inflated BABIP like 2013 Chris Johnson
If the D’backs can net Miller then they would have a very good rotation. Greinke/Miller/Corbin/Bradley is a very good rotation and they got options for the 5th starter. The only question is what would it cost.
Well it would seem Pollock lol. So unless someone decides to blink thats the cost.
Pollock was 6th among position players in WAR last year. The Braves just aren’t getting him for Miller.
They should try to build a package around Miller if they really want him.
However, I don’t think the fit is there, considering they got rejected for Miller for Pollock, and responded with Miller + a reliever for Pollock + a top pitching prospect.
I go past Pollock and go for Swanson + Blair
So a # 3 arm in arbitration for a future #3 arm…that makes sense. But adding the number one draft pick and a top ten overall prospect?
The difference being Miller is actually a real life major league pitcher, and Blair … isn’t. This is a reasonable trade actually.
I think Enciarte Swanson and Blair for Miller and Vizcaino
From what I’ve noticed, the dominoes are falling but the Braves asking price remains firm. They have no incentive to trade Shelby unless they get precisely who and what they want.
Hart set the market for trading for SP. He started high and hasn’t budged. As such, you get reports from the likes of the Indians on what they’re now looking for if they were to trade one of thiers. Its even higher.
I think Hart is really really smart. He did something similar with the outfield market last season. I think he went in knowing he was goign to trade the outfield but there were still pieces on the board. He took one of those pieces off in the form of Markakis. That act alone set off a chain reaction in the market that would eventually net him him an entirely new farm.
If teams are willing to spend/overspend (depends on who you talk to) on the likes of Price, Greinke, Smard, etc then, I think Hart and anyone else who is trading SP has the right mindset to as most have put it “overvalue” their players.
If teams are willing to overspend via salary then the argument can be made they’ll do that on the same front via prospects/mlb talent
The Indians are asking for more for Carrasco, not because of something Hart did, but because Carrasco is much, much, much, much better than Miller. I’m not sure I said “much” enough. They are in different worlds.
We get it, you dont like MIller
He’s a perfectly acceptable 3 or 4 starter, there’s nothing wrong with that. He’s nowhere near the best SP on the trade market though, even though the Braves are acting like he is.
I would hope so. Would hate for a GM to ask for trash..
Pollock is worth 4 Miller’s. So if that’s the cost, Miller will be on the Braves forever. Atlanta literally does not have the pieces to get Pollock. At all. Anywhere on their team.
Think you are overvaluing Pollock by a tad, or 3 tads lol
It’s hard to overrate a top 15 player in the game who’s also fairly cheap with years of team control.
Well, when you make huge statements like you did then it becomes a lot easier to overrate him. Atlanta definitely has the pieces to pry Pollock loose. They just are unlikely to give up that much for him.
Well, what do you think would get it done then? Using Braves pieces. Maybe I’m missing a few studs that they have.
What are you using to say he is a top 15 player? Just curious
Last year, he was top 10 in all of baseball in WAR. He is one of the true 5 tool players in the game,with excellent offense (134 wRC+ with power and contact), great defense at a premium position and great speed. He literally has no flaws. The only players that are definitely better than him in the game today are Trout, Harper, Donaldson and Goldy. He’s on par with Cutch, Cain, Machado, Bryant, Votto, Posey etc. A true superstar who’s 28 years old, making no money with a lot of team control.
WAR lol..enough said
Oh, you’re one of those people, huh? Let me guess, you still think RBI is a good stat?
Nah, I just dont think WAR is an end all is all. Its a hypothetical and way too much goes into it..especially when you get into defensive WAR. Its the first thing people throw out there like its some magical thing. Pollock is a great player..top 15 he is not especially after just 1 full year. Sorry, you are over valuing him IMO
Ok, I’ll listen to a counter argument. What players do you think are better?
I would have to look into the numbers a bit more. See what the score was when he stole bases and such. Did they lead to scores? That one category is what pushed him up and I would have to see what the steals did for his team. Take the 39 steals away and his numbers are average for an outfielder. Then throw in pitchers..safely inside top 50 but again, would have to do a little research before throwing out random names
I don’t think there is a trade that they would be willing to offer. But it’s easy to throw enough names out there to theoretically get a deal done. Almost any team in the league could throw enough names out to theoretically get a deal done. Doesn’t mean they would.
If Atlanta offered Miller, Vis and all of their top 5 prospects then Arizona likely wouldn’t even flinch before saying yes.
Who are their top 5 prospects, in your estimation? If they have multiple top 30 prospects in their farm, like the Dodgers do, then maybe that would work. I didn’t think the Braves did though.
Newcombe,Toussant,Albies,Sims and Allard…not even mentioning Fried, Olivera or Riley
Albies, Allard, Toussaint, Jenkins and Riley. But I’m putting Riley a lot higher and not putting in Newcomb because I haven’t seen him pitch yet.
It wouldn’t even take that much to get Pollock. But you claimed that Atlanta doesn’t have the pieces anywhere. They obviously do. They just wouldn’t give up that much for Pollock.
The Dbacks might take that for Pollock. Maybe. I probably wouldn’t.. Same as I probably would take that for Harper, Bryant or Machado. Young superstars are a lot harder to come by than solid prospects.
Oh good lord, are you just trolling? lol
If you wouldn’t then you’d probably be the only GM that wouldn’t pull that trigger. I could remove two of those prospects and you’d probably still be lonely on that front.
And I didn’t even have to go outside the top 5 or include Teheran or Freeman. The Braves have enough pieces right now to deal for at least couple players similar to Pollock. They just wouldn’t.
Arizona just spent 200 million on Grienke because they want to compete now. They are not moving Pollock, particularly for a bunch of minor leaguers.
But it would be a Miller and Viz with multiple top prospects. It would be hard for any GM to turn it down no matter what level of contention they might be at. Because of someone overpaid they could use those prospects in other trades instead.
But that’s not the point anyway. I was pointing out to the other poster that huge statements like he made are not his friend.
Heck, if they offered back Tiki they might jump..that was a steal they regret im sure
Maybe, but Stewart didn’t draft Touki, so I’m sure he didn’t value him at the $9M savings he acquired. Not sure that $9M helped all that much with the mountain of cash they’re wallowing in now, minus the 1st rd pick (2014).
1 great season does not make him a top 15 player. Yes he had a great year, but this is the first time he has hit more then 8 homeruns….How does that make one a top 15 player?
Bradley’s not in that rotation before Robbie Ray and Chase Anderson.
Bradley should be in the rotation over those guys.
No he shouldnt. He hasn’t figured it out yet, not sure he even will but right now, not a rotation guy
I feel like the Braves are just testing the waters and seeing if they can get someone to bite with a huge package. And the price that these pitchers are going for as free agents makes their chances look decent that someone might offer that offer the Braves can’t refuse.
I have a feeling that the Dodgers deal Joc Pederson to Braves for Miller. I guess Dodgers might sign Cueto and that would prevent such a deal, but I can see this trade happening.
They just rid themselves of those type of swing and miss players. God no
Braves don’t do that. Pederson’s star faded quite a bit last year.
I believe they would. 90% of the players we traded for in the past year, stars have faded because injury of control issues. Jo otherwise wouldn’t be available for a deal around Miller.
I’d be shocked if the Dodgers traded five years of Pederson for three of Miller. I guess the Dodgers do have a lot of outfielders but Pederson is the one they don’t want to trade.
I could see a signing of a lesser arm than Cueto rather than LAD giving up a prospect with MLB experience. I would see them dealing Joc before Seager though. Oh, how I’d love to acquire Seager…(shh, I’m dreaming)
I think a Incirate/Drury for Miller/Vizciano deal looks good to me. Atlanta gets 2 solid position prospects to help balance their team moving forward. Dbacks get a solid #3 in their rotation and back end bullpen help. Of if the Braves wanted someone who can play SS, Owings would fit
The Braves already traded Drury once don’t think theyll trade back for him and definitely not for Miller/Viz. Assuming all things remian constant then the Braves already have a SS in the wings.
No thanks, we had Drury and used him as a throw in for the Upton trade. He will be no more than a AAAA player. Incarte won’t make the Braves much better offensively. I would rather hold Miller.
I don’t think that the Braves would go for Drury. Maybe Inciarte and someone like Westbrook would be something they would try, but the Braves almost always try to include pitching in their trades, so I wouldn’t doubt them trying to get someone like Zack Godley or Taylor Clarke as well. They are in the driver’s seat, so they don’t really have to demand a “fair” trade from the DBacks.
I think you’re ridiculously over valuing Inciarte. He needed a .329 BABIP in order to bat .303 and the counting stats (6 HR, 45 RBI, 21 SB) don’t support anything but a strong defensive player at best. Meanwhile, Drury didn’t advance his hitting statistics at all by jumping from AA to the hitters haven in Reno outside of BA that was once again propped up by a ridiculous .378 BABIP. Meanwhile, you’re asking for a clear #2 or #3 SP with the upside of a clear #2, borderline #1 at the age of 25. Atlanta wouldn’t even counter such an offer because they could call the Dodgers (as already mentioned here) and get them involved or simply sit on Shelby until midseason when a desperate team might bite. Hart is in the most lethal position: (true) Atlanta fans aren’t expecting their team to compete in 2016 so he can wait for someone to come to him. All of this ignores the fact that the entire league now knows that Arizona has put their fans on notice that it’s playoffs or bust and with so much money tied up in Greinke, they have to get another top end SP or the signing means nothing. Greinke didn’t make Arizona a playoff team but they’re knocking on the door.
Ender had a 29% LD and good speed as the 21 stb indicates. This easily explains his high BABIP. I don’t know that he is as good as his 2015 stats indicate but going off his BABIP isn’t enough to dismiss him.
There’s nothing in Inciarte’s past to indicate he’s anything but what he is: A Rule 5 guy who had a fantastic career year in his tank. I wouldn’t bet much on him doing it again.
I understand the LD% but that’s fairly volatile in my estimation. And it doesn’t excuse the fact that clearly the Braves and all interested parties view Miller worth more than a serviceable, albeit respectable, platoon OF. Atlanta could find a guy in late February to serve that role and keep Miller.
Never said he was worth Miller by himself. I also said I am not sure he is as good as his 2015 indicates. However, his LD rate AND his speed BOTH point to good reasoning why his BABIP was up. Is his LD rate fake? Maybe. Maybe in 2016 he will suddenly forget how to square up on the ball and drive it. However, this doesn’t seem to be any less volatile than going squarely off BABIP.
Don’t forget that all of Inciarte’s offensive production came against RHP. Granted it’s one season worth of data, but both Inciarte and Peralta have very significant platoon splits to this point in their careers.
No, you’re ridiculously overrating Milller. He’s a solid #4 starter, decent #3. I’d prefer to have Inciarte.
Miller is not a #4 starter, Joe. And his salary and control make him even more valuable (you can’t overlook the economics of it).
Inciarte is cheaper, with more team control though. The “economics of it” favor him.
But Inciarte is the better side of a platoon player at best. Plus, the Dbacks would be selling high, making his perceived value too high for the Braves unless packaged with lots of other pieces.
Selling high? He’ll likely be even better next year. The Braves would be the ones selling high.
Joe, we get it. You don’t like Miller. The only team he’d be a #4 on is the Mets and maybe the Cardinals. If he’s a #3 on any team it’s because they have a good 1 and 2. Please look at all the major league depth charts. Until then, shut up and go do somethin else on your Saturday evening.
Yeah, maybe he’d be a solid #3 on most teams. He’s certainly outside of the top 30 and probably top 50 SP in the game though. He’s a solid piece, not a star piece.
Well being a top 30 pitcher in the game is really good. And guess what? In terms of FIP and ERA he is a top 30.
Being a top 30 starting pitcher in the game would put you in the top 20%.
To be in the top 20% of OF’s you’d have to be ranked 18th or better.
No. He’s not good enough to get Pollock. The DBacks aren’t going to trade a top 3 CENTER fielder unless they get a massive haul. But you’re overvalueing the other OF’s. I can’t imagine the Braves would even want one of them as the center piece.
Then we’ll just respectfully agree to disagree on these two players. And logic points to Hart disagreeing as well as the D’backs most certainly would be thrilled to swap Inciarte for Miller and call it an offseason.
I don’t know why you’re acting like a .329 BABIP is crazy, especially for a player of Inciarte’s profile. Seems pretty standard to me.
LD% is fairly volatile in my estimation (as previously stated, sorry if it didn’t make it in the thread you read). Of course that’s my own opinion so I’m happy to agree to disagree with you on that. The other point I failed to mention is that Atlanta desperately needs a RH hitter with the potential to sit in the middle of the order with Freddie in 2017 and beyond. He’d obviously be a lottery ticket with some warts but the Braves don’t need a line drive hitter to better the offense. They are in desperate need of someone with 20-25+ HR potential in peak years. Inciarte doesn’t fit any of those needs and my bias take is he is a marginal OF’er that is available every offseason into the month of January that Atlanta could sign without giving up an asset. Again, bias view but I’ve seen enough Inciarte in real time to understand and make my own assumption of the hitter profile. So that, ya know, if Hart ever called me I could help him out. 🙂
If pollock is off limits Swanson should be the next name we talk about. Diamond backs farm at a glance looks week. Drury and Reyes are in there top 30… Props on getting greinke! If Swanson and pollock are off limits then I’d respectfully end negotiations. Cubs and Dodgers are probably ready to step up there offers.
I would be stoked if they got Swanson, but I doubt the DBacks trade him. Plus the Braves seem to really want Ozzie to be their starting SS in the future, so who knows..
D-Backs have enough in their system to get a deal done without Pollock, Inciarte or Peralta the same could be said of the Dodgers without Seagar or Urias in a deal.
Who? I don’t want Inciarte in Atlanta and Peralta has hit a ceiling on the heels of a .368 BABIP as a 28 year old. Neither player does anything to propel Atlanta in 2017 or 2018 when they should become competitive again. Pollock or nothing. Hang up the phone and wait for someone to get anxious. Miller is an asset who shouldn’t be traded for marginal players. Luckily Hart knows this.
I’d start with asking for Swanson as a head liner in the return especially if Braves are sending Vizciano in the deal with Miller. D-Backs have a few other Prospects that are intriguing that have some upside but you’ll find outside of of top 100 lists but part of that is how young they are.
My apologies, I’m going along with the premise that Arizona wouldn’t make Swanson available in a deal for Miller so I didn’t include him in any evaluation of their system. But if Swanson was on the table, I would absolutely pull the trigger. Everyone else in the system seems nothing more than a lottery ticket which Atlanta does not need. If they intend to trade Miller, I think it needs to be headlined by an offensive player who can provide Freeman with some protection.
I’m thinking Arizona is all in after the Greinke signing or least should be and Arizona can’t get a deal done without Swanson with just their minor league system alone. Unless Braves decide they want more pitching prospects but I’m mainly looking at the the position prospects from their system. I like Domingo Leyba but he isn’t enough to headline a deal but Leyba is one prospect that could break into the top 100 on most lists by mid season.
Agreed. We need to see some hitting come Atlanta’s way eventually. I think Hart is just taking every asset he can and they just happen to be pitcher’s thus far. I would be ecstatic if Swanson came back but I just don’t see it happening. We’re in complete agreement that Arizona is all in and has to do something. But I think they would be more inclined to overspend on the open market than trade a high end prospect and top overall pick. People in Arizona weren’t thrilled with Hart picking the pocket on Touissant and no one even has an idea of what he’ll be.
Maybe Pollock for Shelby Miller and Julio Tehran?
Miller for Tomas, Hill and a prospect or two. Atlanta assumes all of the remaining salary owed to Tomas and Hill. AZ throws in prospects to compensate.
Braves got a better RF and 2B, so that won’t happen without Pollock and/or Swanson being involved.
Debatable. Tomas plays 3rd and RF and is a better defender at 3rd than given credit for. He does need to learn how to stay on his feet. Markakis is the only outfielder better than Tomas, and not by much. With enough MLB experience Tomas is easily an above average player with plenty of team control. Hill is a perfect example of a player that needs playing time to thrive (think Andre Ethier). Hill also did really well with the change of scenery from Toronto to AZ and I believe he’d do it again. Hill also plays 2nd and 3rd as well. Admittedly Hill is exactly the type of player/contract that Atlanta does not need right now. This is why AZ should be expected to include a prospect or two. Pollock/Swanson for Miller is absurd. Pollock’s upside is atronomically higher than Miller’s. This deal won’t happen but a fan can hope.
And neither are worth their contract. So, unless someone proven is coming back, this conversation between DBacks and Braves is over.
Thanks for chiming in Mr. GM. Let’s ignore the fact that they took on the salary of Arroyo (who couldn’t even play) for Touki, half of Cahill’s salary before the season even began, and traded an over valued outfielder with 1 year of control to STL for Miller. Still think my idea is outside what they’ve already done as recent as last season, or that Miller is even close to the value of Arizona’s starting 3 OF’s?
Sure, Braves will take on over $70 million for an overvalued OF and a horrible 2B without getting Swanson back.
Hill shouldn’t even be discussed in a trade involving Atlanta. They definitely don’t need additional players that won’t be able to have an impact when they are ready to compete. He’s even too risky as a flip candidate. And Tomas is far too risky with that contract.
So basically the two key pieces you mentioned are extremely unlikely to ever be involved in a deal for a significant piece from Atlanta.
Braves should take two salary dumps for a cheap #2 #3 starter with upside…..
If only the world worked like this
Heh. Nice.
3 way deal idea
Dbacks get: Shelby Miller
Braves get: Jorge Soler and Rubby De La Rosa
Cubs get: Ender Inciarte and Braden Shipley
Dbacks get the arm they’re after and can pencil in Brito and Tomas to fill Inciarte’s spot
Braves get Jorge Soler who they’ve supposedly coveted and a 14 game winner in De La Rosa (he got a lot of run support) but he does have potential
And Cubs get their centerfielder/lead off hitter that doesn’t cost a lot of money and the only thing the Cubs are missing in their organization is top pitching prospects like Shipley.
I think this trade works for everyone involved
At last count, Miller has been ‘linked’ to 6 teams (Yanks, Cubbies, D’Back’s, Dodgers, Marlins & Giants) Yet as I post this, he is still mysteriously a member of the ATL Braves. Funny how that works, huh?
More than that lol
I’d like to hear that the Braves offer Miller and Vizzy for a guy like Springer.
Springer is younger, has more power potential, a better track record, et cetera et cetera.
More power potential than a stating pitcher? yeah I see that. and if not playing a full year yet is a track record, then I suppose he has one
This whole post is about pollock. Don’t be a politician.
Braves should not deal Miller for Peralta or Inciarte. That is a D-back fan want (and I get that), but I’d keep working on Soler well before those guys. If the Dbacks aren’t willing to move Pollack, even when Vizcaino was added, there might not be much to work with. Hoping this story is about building leverage for the Braves and them not trading their best controllable pitcher for an average return. Of course, salary dumping could be part of the deal – in that case, all bets are off.
Pollock is in another world. Comparing him too Miller is like comparing Trout to Brett Gardner. It makes no sense. Peralta and Inciarte are both better than Miller too, but at least they’re all pretty close.
Agree completely
But how much is a cost controlled pitcher worth? Shark just got 90 million and he aint that great. In this market you certainly have to take that into consideration.
That is the best point, Rodger. That value sets the market and extends beyond the stats of one guy for another. The amazingly high priced deals recently signed only make Miller more valuable – just like it does for the remaining couple of top pitchers available. Braves should be in the driver’s seat on this one.
How much is a cost controlled OF worth? Heyward, Upton, Cespedes and Gordon are all about to get a TON of money too. Every player we’re talking about is cost controlled, not just Miller.
But they are not pitchers and we have seen the market go up on pitching. You cant compare them to outfielders. Who is left now? Chen,Leake,Gallardo,Cueto…You just listed 4 elite guys that are out there in the OF..do they honestly compare to Mike Leake or Chen?
I fail to see how a pitcher of Miller’s caliber is worth more than a top 10 outfielder with cost control. The amount of TJ surgeries in recent times ends that discussion before it even begins. Miller is barely even worth Inciarte or Peralta alone. Too much risk with any pitcher to argue value over a top 10 outfielder. Why’d the Cardinals trade him for an over valued and underwhelming OF with 1 year of control?
lol “over valued” you mean the guy with the 11th highest WAR in MLB since he arrived in 2010?
Yes, compared two outfielders is just like comparing an outfielder to a pitcher.
If you want a visual, it goes like it. Pollock>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Peralta>>>Inciarte =/>Miller
Spoken like a homer, Joe! 🙂 And I get that. But you won’t get another pitcher to go with Grienke without paying the price. Hart has set the price and he knows he’ll get it or keep him. Bet on him getting it – if not from the Dbacks, from another suitor. Of course, he could sub out Teheran for Miller and take lots of lesser, but serviceable guys instead. I think they call that a bait and switch (as I think that is really who the Braves want to move).
Homer? I’m a Yankees fan. In fact, I like the Braves more than the Dbacks, although I don’t love either team.
Also, if that’s his price, he’s going to keep Miller, because no one will offer 3-4 times what the guy is worth.
Then as a Yankees fan, you choose to ignore the economics of trading for a controllable pitcher like Miller as the Yankees front office did for years (yes, I’m jealous). That adds to the equation and makes a deal more than one guy for another.
Stop saying that Miller’s cost controlled, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Inciarte and Peralta are also both cost controlled.
You’re right, they’re cost controlled. And they’re incredibly underwhelming platoon players who do nothing to build Atlanta into a playoff contender in 2017 or 2018.
Peralta’s a platoon players? Ummm…….the one who was one of the better offensive players in the game last year? With the 137 wRC+, .900 OPS and AVG over .300? His 83 wRC+ against lefties is not at all bad for a player’s weaker side and his 150 wRC+ against righties is elite. The Braves would praise whatever god they believe in if they were able to get Peralta for Miller.
steamer doesn’t think much of peralta for next year tho. 1.2 WAR 109 wRC+, (prolly due to his mammoth .368 BABIP last yr)
Shelby is conservative on most players. It also predicts a 4.07 ERA and a 1.7 WAR for Miller.
The braves are in too good of a position for them to ” trade just to trade” . if the snakes don’t want to give up Pollock, that’s fine. They’ll move on and someone will meet the “high price” they’ve set on Miller. I personally see shelby in atlanta this coming season. Make no mistake about it, a team is going to have to blow Hart/Coppy away with a package in order to net Miller.
No one will meet the asking price if it’s a superstar like Pollock. No one.
Pollock likely just had his best season. I don’t expect him to be worth that much or hit that well again. Maybe he will , but it seems unlikely.
His best season as a 27 year old who has improved every year of his career so far? Do you have any reason to suggest he’s done improving for no reason or are you just saying things?
Its about where he is. I dont see him improving to 30-100 and 50 steals or something. Long as he steals bases he will be right up there..but really, dont see his counting stats take much of a leap from last year
Him hitting 20 homeruns again is highly unlikely. He has never hit over 8 before this season. His stolen bases will likely stay around 30+ for a couple more seasons. I think he is more a 12-15 hr guy then a 20+ hr guy.
So what’s your point? Atlanta still has the time and flexibility to keep Miller through the end of the contract and potentially receive compensation for him at the end of his term (which they would as of now if he was a FA and tendered him, regardless of your views on him). It seems you’ve moved past any debate on the topic and stand firmly on your soap box that Miller is overvalued.
I am a lifelong Braves fan, since around 1977 when I was old enough to understand the game..so, I will probably get a lot of heat but…I hope they trade Miller. I just don’t like him all that much. I believe he is more of the 2nd half guy we saw and not the first half. He is not worth Pollock.Pederson,Panik or most of the guys that have been mentioned. The saving grace on him is that he is controllable and in this market, it does increase his value a ton. I would be happy with Soler if they can get that done..
I’d like a deal for Soler as well. Got to think the Cubs are getting to that point…
Miller for lamb, Blair and lugo
hard to believe one year of Heyward might net the Braves one year of Miller and several years of Soler, plus Jenkins. Great trade.
Hear idea of old fashion block buster trade between Braves yankees and pirates
Yankee get sp’s Shelby miller and Julio. Tehran relievers marksberry mckirhan and melancon and winked c bethencourt 2b walker 3b prospect Ruiz and Michael borne or swisher
Pirates get
Sp Pineda and Perez relieves vizcaino, fun if and miller 1b bird 2b redsnyder catch Sanchez 3b headley prospect grosser
Braves get
So Locke and Morton
Gardner
1b/of morse
Prospect
SP tarpley
Clark
Tallion
C Reese
SS tucker
Ofs
Judge
Meadows
Com pic from Yankee and pirates
This help all team involved
Yankee get 2 starting pitch solve there 2b problem help bull pen get back up catch
Give vet out field who will be free agent after this year and prospect 3b
Pirates get second base and 1b that could help them now bullpen help replacement pitchers a contrable team friendly closer and 3b
Braves get out field prospect Braves are looking for in Gardner cf for the year 1b and outfield that would help off the bench and more pitching prospects vet sp to help other young pitches future catcher and future as and give brave more money to sign both Oday or clipperd lp oflarthery and 3b Zobrist and maybe sign lee or lincecum
Old fashion? try unheard of, not even in a video game..Couldnt even really follow all that
Not this again…
Your trade proposals are only possible within video games. And even then only if you’re playing in a commissioner mode where you’re able to force the trades through.
So the Yankees are giving up Pineda, Bird, Refsnyder, Sanchez, Headley, Gardner and Judge? Ummmm, I’m trying to think of a nice way to tell you that that’s the stupidest trade I’ve ever heard of, but it’s not coming to me. I’ll get back to you.
Where do I sign at?
Lol what am I reading?
Don’t get me wrong because I definitely think that Pollock is a great player but despite his stats showing that he hit well both at home and away I wonder how long that continues. Arizona is very hitter friendly in comparison to Atlanta and if Pollock is traded there then I would not be shocked for some regression. Certainly his minor league and previous numbers don’t show tons of power either.
Miller to me seems like a pitcher who would had done much better if the bullpen woes and lack of offense by the braves didn’t destroy his mental stability. How sane and effective can you expect to be if you basically need to be perfect for your team to have a chance to win? Couple that with a terrible pitch framer like AJP behind the plate and you have a recipe for disaster. Even if Miller was traded to a hitter friendly park I’d expect him to pitch around his same stats if not better.
If the Braves deal Miller for Inciarte or Peralta i swear…,
We don’t have to trade just to trade Coppy. You do know that?
That’s what I’m afraid of. Somewhere along the lines he’ll talk himself into thinking those guys are a steal and make it happen. It’s like when Hart oversold on J-Up’s worth last off-season saying he was worth a huge return. Then we ended up with a package where the headliner was a guy who just had Tommy John (Though I do like Mallax Smith in that deal)
I think there’s a better chance they go after Lamb and Blair. Which I would be ok with. Lamb has a great eye and fills a large gap at third and Blair could probably replace Miller’s production next year.
To people once again don’t get this . You need to know your history this kind of trade use to happen in past . You owner is not going go up on pay roy to solve there prompted and since Red Sox signed price and starting pitching last year was one of the reason you falterd and lost to blue jays so cashmen need to be creative to make team better they have big hole in 2b and and need. He has let it know before the off season that miller Gardner and the prospect are open to talk about the pirates now mater how good they been they are small market team and only way there going to keep to be good is trades . They have also said they will talk about walker melecum and they have there ss 3b is good but better and they could movie Harrison to his real pos 2b have 1b since the let Alvarez go . And Locke Mortan are ok but have they could use up grade too in Sanchez they could use future catch because can civilly repeat what he did last year and he would be up great at worse of Sanchez or Stewart and Braves get of prospect they need future catch ss and help in outfield now and more fire pitcher it trade that help all team and team like like to work with each other and all three of these teams have worked together several times so content the dots ow bye the way when it come to meadow and judge pirates if they resign all three outfield don’t have opening for him and 2019 Yankees fans judge is right field so is Harper so there won’t be room for him. And when it come who Sanchez now with McCann there for 3 more years there now place for him to start majors . So yes this is old fashion block bust that could happen stop makeing your statement that there stopped trades . Because your to young to remember what real baseball trade are like it not just about stats or “prospect ” exspeally from the Yankees they have all ways used prospect to trade for player that can help them bet the red sox blue jay and os and do you really think the Yankees are going to loss off season to Mets and red sox I think not . So stop treating prospect like gold or priceless thinks.
Blockbuster deals didn’t happen like this before. Not sure what age you’re talking about. Trades with that many pieces going back and forth usually consisted of very minor players with a couple key pieces. Not major pieces and the top prospects of multiple teams. Your deals are extremely unrealistic today…and they would’ve been 10 or 20 years ago. Especially since the deal is also very lopsided. The Braves would have to give up Shelby Miller and more just to get Judge (if the Yankees were willing). And you somehow have the Braves getting multiple top prospects on top of that. Just because I’m a Braves fan doesn’t mean I have to buy into trade ideas that favour them to ridiculous levels.
I never have the physical or mental endurance to finish reading your posts dude. Brutal.
Pollock is not going to be traded, especially in a deal headlined by Shelby Miller. Pollock is one of the most valuable players in the game due to age and controllability.
Best outfielders in baseball:
1. Mike Trout
2. Bryce Harper
3. AJ Pollock
4. Lorenzo Cain
5. Andrew McCutchen
6. Giancarlo Stanton (he could be as high as 2 if he is healthy).
Pollock is not being traded. It’s not happening.
Take the goggles off
Ok, you’d really take Lorenzo Cain over Stanton in a draft?
Right now it looks like
1. Harper
2. Trout
3. Stanton
4. Cutch
5. Joey Bats (he ain’t dead yet)
6. Pollock
7. Brantley
This is mostly because Pollock he never shown the kind of production he had this past year. I think he’s legit personally, but need a bit more proof than one season and some change to give him the same track record.
Are we ignoring intangibles that we can’t measure? I’d put Posey in that top 5 if it’s the eye test and leadership. I’d also bet on the upside of Bryant and Correa moving forward. I think OF’ers can be had late into the post season and it’s not a position I build an entire organization around. None of those 7 listed have made a legit run at a World Series. I think assets at other positions carry more weight. Of course, none of those 7 can impact the game for all 54 outs and can only do so much so that logic is admittedly simple and flawed. Just my perspective.
Ummm…since when do any of those guys play in the OF?
Anyone that says Pollock is a “superstar” after one full season is crazy. That makes Miller worth more than Pollock.
He also had an excellent season in 2014, he just got injured. And he was very good in 2013 too, just not quite as good. But he played like a superstar whenever he was on the field since the start of 2014.
He produced at that level in 2014 too, plus he was a 3.5 win player in 2013. I get that you want to live in a world where the Braves might be able to acquire him but it is just silly talk. Why would the Dbacks trade their second best player when they’re trying to win now? And especially why would they do it for an inferior player with the same amount of control? The whole thing is just ridiculous.
I do side with the camp that the Braves absolutely will not acquire Pollock in any deal without sacrificing the future (which I am not for). That said, the D’backs will not acquire Miller for Inciarte or Peralta or it would have already happened. So essentially we’re running around in circles in this debate. Atlanta fans and Miller supporters see a high ceiling, top of the rotation starter. Opponent’s think he’s vastly overrated and a middle of the order pitcher. Either way, we know that Hart values Miller and has no pressure to pull the trigger on a deal that doesn’t fit the mold that he has begun. And at the end of the day, that’s the only opinion that matters.
I am crazy.
If Pollock were on your team, you’d be on these boards bragging about how you have one of the best players in baseball- and rightly so. Joe McMahon seems to keep getting down votes, but his point on here that Pollock is a superstar really isn’t far off. Just because you hadn’t heard of him before this year doesn’t mean anything. He was on pace for a season like this in 2014 until a fluke injury on a HBP. Even John Hart, who seems to love Miller, doesn’t think he’s worth more than Pollock, or else he wouldn’t have offered that in the first place.
Yes there has that many play in one trade but there been trade close as this and hate blow your world but prospect are prospect there is difference between majors and minors like I said number of time need stop just looks t number and reliaze that team like Yankees have alway used prospects as trade bait to make there teams better and never change only team that keep there species in long run are small to mid leave teams not big market teams. Yankee can lose another riff season to Red Sox and pirates are small market team and they not going to able to keep every player and so they will make trade like this because they need the money 2018 ,2019 and 2020 to sign the core of there team cole, mcCutchen marte polanco Harrison mercer Watson in next 4 years there going to have pay mcCutchen 25-30 million cole the same marte and polanco I’ll get around 15 to 20 each Harrison get 20 million Watson get 10 to 15 million if they going to sign them and keep there core there going to have money to do so and Pitt is small market team and when it come to Harper once again Harper will get between 40 to 50 million a year over 10 to 15 years and he a rf and that not even talking if they want to sign other star player . Because New Yorker want stars and Yankee are a star team like Cowboys not prospect that may be bust the name Taylor or Maas ring a bell so these team are not just loom for know there think about he future and there bottom line Pittsburgh. Braves will trade both miller and theran this off season and there biggest holes are ss c and outfield biggest hole for Yankees are sp 2b and outfield pirates can’t keep everyone and they need help at 1b there going to need 2b when they trade walker and get young controllable arm like vizcaino is kind of play Pittsburgh likes Yankees have let it know they will lesson on miller Gardner and the young players won’t trade are betances severino . And when it come to clark judge and Sanchez bird any other prospect cashmen was on hot stove during owners meeting and said he would trade them if deal made them better and hate tell you getting miller theran walker melancon would do that and free up more money so they could sign play like Gordon , upton heyward Davis so you and not even talk about 2019 when Harper mcCutchen cargo Donaldson kuechel Harvey and that taste of future free agents will be open in near future you need look past just this season look what could happen in future exspeally team like Yankees and pirates so look
None of what you write really matters since the assets that you’re proposing in these “trades” can be used in other deals to get those teams more than what they’re getting back within your proposed deal. Everyone keeps saying your deals are unrealistic. It’s not because they’re being mean. It’s because they are unrealistic. If the Yankees and Pirates decided to part with their top prospects they could get much more than what you’re talking about. So there’s no reason for them to even contemplate a trade that obviously is completely lopsided to favour one team.
Also you should the reply button rather than creating an entirely new thread each time. Paragraphs wouldn’t hurt either. Might make it easier for people to get what you’re trying to say.
Can miller get puig ?
I really hope not. Puig is a media nightmare and has the discipline of Dennis the Menace.
A lot of people on here seem to be expecting a drop-off from AJ Pollock and a breakout from Shelby Miller, and I’m honestly curious as to why. Pollock is 3 years older, turned 28 today, but both are coming off of career years, and it seems logical that both will continue to improve. They were even drafted within 2 picks of one another, so it’s not as if Pollock was off the radar, while Miller was a can’t-miss prospect
Shelby Miller for David Peralta and Chase Anderson
Peralta is older than what the Braves are looking for. And Anderson? I suppose you are including him just to fill a slot but I can’t see why the Braves would want him.
This deal happens one of two ways, I imagine. Either with Pollock or Swarnsby. If those two are BOTH untouchable, then the D-Backs don’t have the talent to get Miller. At least I imagine that’s the case.
Exactly, the dbacks refuse pollock and I don’t see them trading swarnsby either, the braves want an outfielder but probably one with more power then enciarte hence peralta, and the dbacks will need more then just him to get it done and is atlantas in rebuild mode getting a young starter in Anderson would be something that could help them in the long runoff he is as good as he’s projected to be