12:47pm: Jon Heyman of CBS Sports tweets that there’s no talk of Castro/Gardner at this point, as the Yankees’ preference would be to add pitching if they’re to part with Gardner.
9:35am: The Yankees and Cubs have discussed a trade involving outfielder Brett Gardner and infielder Starlin Castro, reports Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News. The Yankees have discussed Gardner with many other clubs as well, a source tells Feinsand.
Castro, 26 in March, lost his job as the Cubs’ starting shortstop this past season and eventually took over at second base after a stretch in which he was primarily a bench option. The former All-Star salvaged what was shaping up to be a second dreadful season three years by hitting .366/.390/.643 over his final 119 plate appearances — most of which came as a starter. While a .389 BABIP in that stretch served to artificially inflate his batting line, Castro did slug six homers in that stretch, so something very clearly did click for him at the plate. His bat was largely dormant in the postseason, though, as he hit just .176/.200/.294 (35 plate appearances).
Castro signed a seven-year, $60MM extension with Chicago back in August of 2012 at the tail end of what was a second consecutive All-Star season for the then-22-year-old. Since that time, he’s sandwiched an excellent 2014 campaign in between a pair of awful seasons at the plate, leading to a cumulative .265/.303/.383 batting line from 2013-15.
TheĀ remaining $38MM on Castro’s contract is an exact match with the remaining $38MM on Gardner’s deal, though Castro is guaranteed that sum over the life of four full seasons, whereas Gardner is promised $38MM over the next three years. Both players have a club option on their deal — a $16MM club option for the 2020 season ($1MM buyout) in Castro’s case and a $12.5MM club option for the 2019 season ($2MM buyout) in Gardner’s case.
Gardner, 32, is considerably older than Castro but has had much more recent success. The 2015 season was the worst in recent memory for Gardner, although Yankees hitting coach Alan Cockrell recently told the Journal News’ Chad Jennings that a wrist injury submarined Gardner’s second-half production. Gardner was hit by a pitch on the wrist in April, and the effects of the injury lingered all season. As Cockrell explained, a player can only receive three cortisone injections over the course of a single season, and once Gardner was no longer able to receive cortisone treatment in the second half, his bat completely evaporated, leading to his dismalĀ .203/.288/.290 batting line in the season’s final two months. (Overall, Gardner’s .259/.343/.399 triple-slash was still plenty respectable.)
While other pieces may or may not need to be included to bring this trade from discussion to fruition, the framework makes some degree of sense on paper. The Yankees are open to adding help at second base, where the primary internal option is the largely unproven Rob RefsnyderĀ and Dustin Ackley, who hasn’t played second base regularly since 2012. The Cubs, meanwhile, may very well lose Dexter Fowler to free agency and have no immediate in-house replacement in center field. It should also be noted that the Yankees recently acquired a highly athletic young outfielder in Aaron Hicks, who could step into the outfield in Gardner’s stead on an everyday basis. While Hicks hasn’t proven much at the plate after initially being rushed to the Majors, he made some strides offensively in 2015 and is seen as a potentially elite defender in the outfield. The swap would also lessen the Yankees’ luxury tax ledger and decrease the 2016 payroll, perhaps opening the team to further spending. Castro is set to earn $7MM next year compared to Gardner’s $13MM salary.
I’m hoping Gardner, if traded, gets traded for a SP.
Not sure what you think you can get for Gardner
A 3-4 WAR OFer with 3 years of control could definitely bring back something decent, especially if the Yankees ate some $
I’m not saying an ace but maybe a #3 pitcher.
Gardner is injured. He couldn’t take any more cortizone shots in his wrist after the All Star break. I haven’t heard about him getting surgery. Would you pay $13M for a 2.6fWAR injured outfielder, with speed but no base stealing ability and a SP?
You trolls are funny
I get thumbs down for calling out people who just troll on his forum.
Probably cause of your username and me because of my avatar.
He has a funny way of showing no base-stealing ability…
Yea he gets you 20 steals at 80% success clip. Terrible indeed, lol…
baseball-reference.com/players/g/gardnbr01-bat.sht…::none
You won’t find a better OF that can take a hardball to the back of the head and not flinch.
Cash has been asking for a SP for Gardner,and I am pretty sure the answers have been pretty weak, hence why he has moved to the castro deal.
There were no such talks
Hector Santiago for Gardner.
I wouldn’t hate this. I actually proposed this weeks ago and was laughed at, but it’s all good. I would love to get a starting pitcher for Gardner, but they could acquire Castro for 2B and then use guys like Refsnyder as part of a larger package to get a starter.
The problem is Castro hasn’t been particularly good in a while. Two of the last three years he’s had an OPS+ of 73 and 83. That’s basically what Drew did last year. He has poor plate discipline, is a bad baserunner. Odds are Ackley/Refsnyder are better, and by a good margin, at 2B than Castro. Hold Gardner or trade him for a need. That need is not Castro.
Yeah good call on that. I still don’t think Castro would pull in Gardner, as a Cub fan, but clearly the gap between the two is not as steep as I would’ve thought
This would actually solve both teams problems, cubs needing some veteran grinder who can play solid defense and steal bases, castro will allow the yankees to have a young SS with tremendous upside, they would then be able to trade Gregorius for a reliever
More likely that Castro will play 2B with Gregorius holding down SS.
A fun game to do is to go on Castro’s baseball-refence page, go to Game Logs then 2015 and find the date Castro officially got moved to 2B and look at his OPS from that day until the end of the season.
tl, dr: in 47 games, Castro had a .961 OPS after he was moved to 2B full time. He’s only 26 next year. The only problem I see with this deal is that the Cubs should start him at 2B everyday for the first two months of 2016 and see if he’s still mashing, because if that happens, he brings in a massive haul. Or maybe he flops and still gets Gardner anyway, if he hasn’t been moved by then.
Baez has considerably more value after cutting down his strikeout rate significantly last year… Trade him and keep Castro. If Castro builds off his August/September numbers from last year, then it’s a win. And if he reverts back to the player that was benched, the Cubs still have Gleybar Torres.
The Cubs have a more urgent need in CF and at the lead-off spot in 2016 than at 2B, where Javier Baez and Tommy La Stella can also play.
That being said, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cubs explore other options via free agency and the trade route before pulling the trigger on a Brett Gardner deal, who would be another hitter who strikes out way too frequently in a lineup already prone to.
I still maintain that FA Ben Zobrist would be an excellent fit for the Cubs as a versatile switch-hitting high contact, high OBP hitter who could actually serve the role as their regular lead-off man while also playing up to 7 different positions. Manager Joe Maddon loves versatility in his players, both afield and in the lineup, something Zobrist accomplished better than any other player in MLB during his 9 seasons with Maddon in Tampa Bay. Zobrist could be a super-sub like Tony Phillips or Chone Figgins who also filled the role of a regular lead-off hitter while playing different positions in the field.
The Cubs would still need to address the CF position on a regular basis, although Zobrist can play there occasionally. I also like the idea of the Cubs utilizing Starlin Castro, or perhaps even Javier Baez in CF depending on which is deemed a better fit defensively at 2B. Both would seem possess the necessary tools to become excellent CF’s with their athleticism, including good speed and strong arms. A crash course in winter ball, along with extended time in spring training might suffice for either heading into 2016. Castro, in particular, might benefit in a long term move to CF where the focus and responsibility required of a middle infielder would be less. This might result in him fulfilling his offensive potential that was evident in 2010-2012 and 2014.
I think the Cubs have enough versatility. Baez can play 2B, 3B or SS. Bryant can play OF in a pinch (probably better than Soler or Schwarbs defensively).
I would keep Castro and sign a short term player like Austin Jackson for CF as a bridge to Almora for 2017 or 2018. Schwarbs or Soler could leadoff.
Gleyber will not be called up (barring injuries) until Sept. 2017.
I could see Addison leading off.
Yes, but who will bat 9th. Joe’s just gotta bat the pitcher 8th. š
If Addison Russell leads off, Zobrist would still be an ideal #2 hitter, prototypical with his high contact rate, plate patience and ability to hit all fields and behind the runner.
If manager Joe Maddon continues to hit Russell in the #9 spot, then Zobrist would perform the same function as the Cubs unconventional lead-off hitter who would still be the prototypical #2 man except for the first AB of each game.
Austin Jackson could be the short term option in CF but isn’t a particularly good one as a lead-off hitter. Addison Russell may very well be the Cubs future lead-off man but not likely in 2016.
Imo, a reunion of Zobrist and Maddon makes a lot of sense, especially with the Cubs skipper being even more the micro-manager in the N.L. than he ever was in Tampa Bay. Zobrist would also give the Cubs lineup a hitter who is one of the toughest in MLB to strike out, either as a non-conventional lead-off man or the ideal #2 hitter. Zobrist would be better than any other Cub on their current roster in either role. His versatility is an obvious plus but he could also become the Cubs regular at 2B in 2016, allowing the Cubs better depth to deal either Castro or Baez for needed pitching. A veteran presence like Zobrist in a young club lineup also shouldn’t be under-estimated, especially with Dexter Fowler’s likely departure as a FA.
Btw-Zobrist has batted in every spot of the batting order throughout his career, the most being as a #2 hitter. He has appeared in the lead-off role fourth most with 609 PA’s, including 45 last season.
Then they might as well just re-sign Fowler. He’s younger and will cost about the same as Zobrist. But I think the Cubs are saving their big FA money for starting pitching.
Dexter Fowler will likely sign a 4-5 year FA contract this off-season, something the Cubs have little desire to match with Albert Almora their perceived core CF starting as soon as 2017. In that eventuality, Fowler would only have the flexibility to move to a corner OF spot, two positions the Cubs already have an abundance of foundation piece possibilities in with Jorge Soler, Kyle Schwarber, Billy McKinney and perhaps even Kris Bryant down the road.
Ben Zobrist is more likely to sign a 3 year FA contract and has far more versatility afield. He could be a regular in the lineup as a super-sub or the Cubs starting second baseman in 2016. His versatility would allow him to play up to 7 different positions over the course of his next FA contract. Zobrist could also perform the role of the Cubs unconventional lead-off man or that of a prototypical #2 hitter, which is for all practical purposes the same with manager Joe Maddon’s unconventional use of the pitcher in the #8 hole and a potential conventional #1 man in Addison Russell batting in the 9th spot regularly. Zobrist would be the ideal man to follow the Cubs best lead-off candidate, whether that is Russell hitting #9 or #1 in 2016 OR if the team picks up another candidate who is a more prototypical lead-off hitter (say Brett Gardner) in which case Zobrist would continue to bat in his accustomed #2 spot.
There is a long history of flame outs who posters thought put it together over limited at bats versus September call ups. There is no reason to believe Castro breaks the mold. He’s been bad more than good, and the few years he had good seasons he was helped by a spike in BABIP, which he has proven to be not sustainable. He is a crappy player who was aided by some serious luck twice in his career. Kudos to him, it got him a good contract. But it’s time to stop expecting more.
You can’t just look at BABIP as a singular stat and think it explains something. Castro profiles as a line drive hitter. Line drives fall for a hit just under 70% of the time. That’s why his BABIP was higher in 2014, 2012, and 2011. It’s why his numbers were down in 2013 and it was the single-biggest change from his early season struggles to his late-season improvement. When a hitter drives the ball, as Castro has actually done for the majority of his career, your BABIP goes up.
You can when it’s inconsistent. It’s not like he has stretches of bad BABIP. He overwhelmingly has a low BABIP with some lucky stretches. Its what you are referring to that’s the outlier. Just saying “he’s a line drive hitter” doesn’t make him one. When he makes good contact he becomes one, but he doesn’t make good contact enough.
Much like Didi.
I’m a Castro fan hope the Cubs keep him haven’t hit his potential yet only 25 come on Yankees would be as smart to make this trade as Theo would be dumb.
They would keep didi
Either way works, like someone said bring Castro in at 2nd and keep Didi, but yanks have been talking about trading Miller..if thats the case it won’t be for another reliever. They can also keep castro at SS, trade Didi for a reliever and then trade miller for more youth..Many different ways that it can play out and they all work
Didi’s not going anywhere!
I haven’t seen a better match up in trades either in fan comments or reported here than Gardner for Castro straight up. Money’s about the same, Gardner is a slightly better player but is older. Both players fill a mid-term need on both sides, but both teams are covered with internal options if either player flops. This trade should happen, today.
as a cubs fan i hard pass on this….7 year age spread, castro is a 3 time all stars and had an extremely strong second half compared to Gardner’s sub .225 average. Castro is worth much more than Gardner
Castro’s only been legitimately good for 47 games. If the Cubs play him the first two months of 2016 and he’s still hitting, then yeah his value will stabilize at what you think it is.
has played in 6 season He’s hit over .285 in 4 seasons over .300 in 2 and only under .250 once….thats more than legitimate than 47 games. Gardner is on the decline while Castro is in his prime at age 25
Good thing that the Yankees would say no first. Gardner is worth WAY more than Castro. Cubs would have to send extra to NYY.
I doubt that. I think it would be straight up, and if other pieces are involved, it would be from both sides
Cashman makes trades out of nowhere though. Since this had been leaked, I bet it doesn’t happen lol
explain why?
I don’t think either team makes this deal for a number of reasons… Gardner might have a 1-year edge in value, but given the way both players finished the season, that’s not exactly a guarantee. The Cubs would be paying Gardner well past his expiration date, giving a good-sized contract to an aging player who relies on his legs when everyone knows that the legs (speed) are the first thing a player loses… How valuable is Gardner when he can’t run?
He can run.
For how long? He’s 32 and slowing down… You’re paying him until he’s 35.
3 all star game reserves. And he’s 0fer as well as having 3 errors.
Trade for Castro, flip Refsnyder for an ACE.
Refsnyder isn’t getting you an ACE.
Refsnyder, Judge, Severino & Sanchez will…but that would be a terrible move by the Yanks.
Lol. He’s trolling obviously.
Seriously?LOL man
Boy you enjoy trolling don’t you?
Can I interest you in a CJ Wilson?
First name that came to mind for me. Seems like a natural fit if only I’d rather the Angels go bigger then that for LF.
Maybe he means ACE as an acronym for Alcoholic Concessions Employee. Because there is no way Refsnyder brings back even a #5 starter by himself. He is still just a prospect and not even a top prospect at that.
ATTN MLBTR mods: can you please remove these annoying ads that play sound but that don’t have a button to mute them? Thanks.
Get AdBlocker
Mute your computer.
Just click on the ads and they go away…
Stop whining
You lack discipline!!
Do the Cubs need a CF? Sure, but Gardner has some warts. He was absolutely awful after the ASB, putting up a slash line of .206/.300/.292 with an August slash of .208/.304/.257 and a September slash of .207/.288/.348. At his age, a case can be made that he’s well on his way down…
While I won’t say that Castro is much better, the fact is that the chance of him rebounding are significantly greater. The Cubs would be better off dealing Baez for something of greater value than they would by dealing Castro for Gardner. If Castro continues to play anywhere near the level he did after the benching, then it’s a huge win for the Cubs. And if he doesn’t, the Cubs still have Gleybar Torres just a phone call away in Double A.
Castro has negative value. That’s all.
Yep – once in his career, he had a negative WAR. Not sure how that’s relevant 2 full seasons later.
Negative value doesn’t equal negative WAR. Castro’s contract combined w. his replacement level productionā¦.that is why he has negative value. Is there a chance he rebounds, yes. Is that chance worth giving up more than a low prospect or swap of a bad contractā¦no.
Do it Yankees
Is this thought to be a straight up trade or would the Cubs get something else in return? Regardless of Castro’s up and down 2015, he’s locked up for longer, less per year, and has a greater upside than Gardner does at this point in his career.
While I agree the Cubs need a CF, I don’t see a straight up trade as entirely fair for the Cubs. Maybe a bullpen piece of sorts in return to make up the difference? I don’t really know Justin Wilson’s value, but I wouldn’t mind him being thrown into the deal. The Cubs could sure use an upgrade in terms of a lefty reliever to (hopefully) displace Maddon’s obsession with Rosscup.
Since Theo and Hoyer are looking for contact hitters and Castro is the best one they have on the team, I would doubt he is getting traded his off season. MLB radio has been talking up this trade idea for several weeks without talking to or bothering to listing to anything out of Chicago. They are pretty happy with Castro at 2nd base and would like to see him continue to grow there.
Gardner to Angels for SP CJ Wilson? Both coming off injuries. Fills a need for both clubs.
I would rather see a trade involving Ben Revere, but this wouldn’t be terrible (assuming Gardner is or will be healthy by March).
Cubs would have to be out of their minds to trade Castro for Gardner straight up….
Yanks are spinning a nice tale on Gardener, hopefully Theo in his infinite wisdom can see through this bologna.
This makes way more sense than the delusional Cub and Yankee fan posts about getting value for either player. Both players are negative values. Castro has a big contract, is a terrible defender, and is a bad offensive player. Gardner is the better player, but comes with severely declining speed (really his only tool), is also a bad defender, and has a bigger contract.
Realistically, if these two aren’t traded for each other they aren’t traded. Nobody wants them.
Your post couldn’t be more wrong in many fields. First, gardners speed hasn’t decreased, he just doesn’t run anymore. Second, his contract is cheap compared to other outfielders. And third, he is a good outfield not bad defender like you state.
That’s like me saying my power is still there I just never hit HR’s anymore
I agree he’d steal close to 40 for the cubs,
He doesn’t steal anymore because he gets caught 1 in 4 times.
Wrist injuries never heal right. Look at Derek Lee. I really hope this deal goes no where.
Did you even look at Lee’s stats after his wrist injury? 317/400/517 the following year.
Cubs must be desperate
Desperate for an OFer or desperate to get rid of Castro?
Castro for …..
I think this has a good potential, good deal for both clubs, i think Castro could be a superstar still, this guy has led the national league in hit’s before. I’d perfer Baez, but I’d do either it’s time to start looking three years from now
I think it would be a pretty fair trade, but I wouldn’t if I’m the cubs. The Cubs have no place to play a LF and with possibly soler and schwarber at the corners, they need a good defender at CF. I think gardner’s a good defensive LF, but I think the days are over where he plays an above average CF. Also, Castro is 26 and Gardner is 30+. Castro is just entering his prime so you hold on to him one more year because he gives you very solid defense at second, and high contact rates, which is something the Cubs desperately need.
At least you hear news of possible moves where the Cubs are trying to better the already great team they have, either through trades or FA. They don’t mind spending the money for the big fish. At least their GM looks toward top tier players, whereas teams like the Cardinals, who have completely drained their minor league talent, who aim for “Low Hanging Fruit” that generally spoils by mid-season. Plus, If the Cubs want a player, they spend the money to put them over the top. Teams like The Cardinals won’t ever spend money on a top free agent player that could fit the holes in their no-hit offense and their injury riddled pitching staff. So I say kudos to the Cubs and their owners for improving their team and always looking how to fill holes in there entire team. The Cardinal Way, as represented over the last few years will see a deterioration in wins, because the power that be don’t have the same philosophy as the Cubs organization!!!
Wonder how Cashman is feeling after sleeping on the streets last night to benefit the homeless.
He was better dressed sleeping on the street last night than he was for the meetings in Boca.
Boo! At least when Gardner isn’t hurt he is a solid player. If all you are getting is a more expensive question mark, why not give ref a chance?
I hope that this isn’t true. Castro will be just 26 next year with 1,000 hits already. Gardner is on the wrong side of 30 and his best asset will begin to disappear very soon (speed). The Cubs would do best to keep Castro, Baez, and Russell, and the pick up a CF on the free agent market. I expect 2016 to be a big year for Castro!
I’d like to know how this is a bad trade for the Cubs?
Castro in his 6 seasons in the bigs has played 891 games putting up a 10.3 WAR. His highest WAR in a season is 3.4 and he’s reached 3.0 only twice
Gardner from 2009-2015 (that’s 7 seasons but he only played 9 games in 2012) has a 25.6 WAR. He’s reached a 4 WAR (notice I used Four for Gardner and just Three for Castro) three times and his WAR the last 3 years is 12.1 with the lowest being a 3.3
Gardner’s Career Low in WAR for a full season (3.3) is nearly identical to Castro’s career High in WAR (3.4)
Keep undervaluing Gardner. Something just tells me he’s “overrated” because he plays for the Yankees.
That was rWAR by the way
But let’s use fWAR in recent years, shall we?
Gardner is ranked 21st among 93 OFers the last 3 seasons in fWAR. Only 1 spot behind Nelson Cruz and 3 spots behind Justin Upton who easily will get a 9 figure contract
Castro is ranked 25th among SS the last 3 years with just a 3.6 WAR, which averages to just 1.2 WAR a season which is basically the value of a Bench player (obviously I can’t use 2B cause the sample is small)
So Cubs fans, if you want the well below average IFer in a crowded IF over the well above average OFer in a not so great OF, keep Castro over Gardner then.
Nevermind.
This is an intriguing trade proposal. Gardner is a good player and would fill the Cubs leadoff and center field vacancy.
But how much WAR did Gardner rack up through his age 25 season? 3.6 rWAR. For the four seasons that Castro is under contract, I would bet that he would have a higher WAR than Gardner.
I would not give up Castro just yet. Especially since he handled his demotion like a champ and has a shot at bouncing back to his previous All-Star performance and maybe even improve upon it.
“But how much WAR did Gardner rack up through his age 25 season?”
It was actually 1.1 and that’s when he joined the big leagues back in 2008. Not a great comparison.
At the age of 25, Mariano Rivera had a career 0.2 WAR. K-Rod had a 16.2 WAR
Please note I’m not comparing Rivera to Gardner, but I think you get my point. They both joined the big leagues way after the other player we are comparing them to.
Not a great comparison on my part. I guess my point for keeping Castro is that he is 6.5 years younger than Gardner. Starlin can possibly rack up the 4 WAR seasons that Gardner has achieved. Gardner is good, but he’s on the decline.
Gardner was a 2.6 fWAR player last year.
Unless you are checking b-ref? Pitchers for bWAR, hitters for fWAR.
fWAR. FanGraphs. They rate Gardner as delivering more than $20 million a year each season for the last three years. Castro? Not so much. You can keep your Castro.
It would be an excellent deal for the Cubs, bad for the Yankees. Not happening. I’m sure the Cubs have asked about Gardner, so it’s fair to say the deal has been “discussed,” but it ends there.
Jon Heyman now says no such talks have happened. Thanks Feinsand.
Gardner to mariners for Vidal nuno and roenis Elias or straight up for James Paxton
Former one – Lulz.
Latter one – Yankees likely don’t do that. I read they already asked for Walker. I don’t think they would settle for Paxton.
“I read they already asked for Walker. I donāt think they would settle for Paxton. ”
WOW!
Nuno was a Yankee. They know him. He’s just an arm. Paxton has yet to show he can throw more than 75 innings in the majors and is already 27. Not happening.
The Yanks are looking for pitching. They wont get it from the Cubs. I don’t the deal makes sence at all really. Swapping Castro for Gardner. Cubs can do better than him. Thats a wasted trade inless the shop Gardner later. The guys hurt and really its useless. The Cubs have so many options to go to and lets break down what they need. They don’t need inflielders that for sure. Yes Ben Zobrist would be nice but really what do you do with him? Thats going to cost you money. Its like buying a Ferarri and adding a better stero.
Cubs need to address a few things. One they need a center fielder.
The A list consist of Heyword, Maybe an Upton, and Gordon. Heyword not going to the Cubs, they can’t and wont pay that money. Not with a A pitcher coming.
Upton also going to be way to high. Inless they down grade that A Pitcher.
Will come back to the CF. Either Price or Greinke will go to the Cubs I’m 100% certain. Boy be nice to have both But the Cubs aren’t kicking out $400 Mil on both. Inless they both go out to dinner and say hey lets sign with the Cubs and reduce are asking price and shock the world. YEAH Pipe dreamin. Reality I say Price only cause he really want to go to Chicago and Maddon. Inless he really wants stupid money. Greinke will be a Hair lower in price but not much.
Another Option is # 3 Pitcher Z. Then maybe do a Zimmermann and go after a
Johnny Cueto Or one of those and a B picher like Mike Leake and Jeff Samardzija which frees some money to Land Gordon.
I’d think Castro would fetch more than a declining 30-something OFer getting paid more per year than Castro and just as below average on defense in recent years as Castro as well. Would rather see them get a top pitching prospect. Hold onto Castro to start the season as the starting 2Bman. Then by July if he’s hitting Castro-like; .280+, .330 OBP, 7 or so HRs, etc. His value would be even higher. He’s already a top 5 if not 3 hitting SS in MLB over the last 6 years. That’s got to count for something in this baseball world that is seemingly poo-pooing offense and favoring lame defense instead. Like Simmons…. who is Starlin Castro’s exact opposite. Simmons sucks at hitting, great at fielding….. worth apparently more than a team’s top 2 prospects according to some of the people whining about the deal (not to me though). Castro, great at hitting, not so great at fielding even though he has good range. Apparently worth just one of the Yankees aging turds.
“Heās already a top 5 if not 3 hitting SS in MLB over the last 6 years. ”
Except he hasn’t. He’s very inconsistent.. Gardner is Not inconsistent. That’s the big difference between the 2.
Castro is 14th among SS since 2010 in wRC+ (96). He has an 11.3 fWAR
Gardner’s wRC+ is 107 and his fWAR in that same span is 20.8 fWAR
Despite Gardner’s “decline”, he’s very consistent.
A supposedly declining but well above average OFer with a young but inconsistent middle IFer
It’s all moot though.
Gardner is consistent. Consistently bad after the allstar break.
1st half: 115 wRC+
2nd half: 88 wRC+
A career .676 OPS in the second half of the season. That tells me he is a player that can’t make it a whole season. Age isn’t going to improve that.
You keep cherry picking Gardner’s stats. Fact still remains, he has put up better numbers than an inconsistent Castro
Despite the decline, Gardner puts up a 3+ rWAR every season. Castro has only done that twice in six seasons
No one is going to argue age. The debate is how fast Gardner declines and If Castro can be consistent
Gardner may be declining, but Castro has shown No consistency and he averages only 1-2 WAR per season whereas Gardner averages 3-4
Why are you using rWAR for your argument now, but above fWAR? You are cherry picking.
Let’s see if he is declining.
2010 6.1 fWAR
2011 5.0 fWAR
2012 injured
2013 3.4 fWAR
2014 3.4 fWAR
2015 2.6 fWAR
My elementary math level tells me that those numbers are DECLINING.
6.1 fWAR? That is pretty impressive. Oh wait…. that was his age 26 season. That’s when players typically peak. OMG?!?! Castro isn’t 26 yet??
I’ve used Both. No matter which you use, Gardner is ahead.
I’ve yet to hear how Castro will have more value than Gardner over the next 3 years. Age isn’t a valid argument.
Gardner is consistent?
2009: .270 BA .345 OBP
2010: .277 BA .383 OBP
2011: .259 BA .345 OBP
2012: Injured
2013: .273 BA .344 OBP
2014: .256 BA .327 OBP
2015: .259 BA ..343 OBP
IMO he’s got 3 good seasons, 2 mediocre/nothing special seasons, and 1 decent season – this last year I’ll say is decent just because of that OBP.
Another thing I notice….. he’s declining.
Only thing going up is his HRs, but that is likely as much a result of the little league stadium he plays in as it is his skill…… if not more. Since 2011 Gardner has been as bad on defense as Castro.
Despite Castro having a bad year in 2015, he still hit .265 with 11 HRs, and 69 RBIs. That’s solid run production for a “bad” year. He actually had a stellar April, August and September at the plate….. his May June and July though were what killed him. Castro ranked t-6th among MLB SS in BA, 5th in RBIs, 9th in HRs, 13th in doubles, 11th in OPS……. and this was a bad year.
Again, IMO Castro is the exact opposite of what Simmons is. Castro solid hitter, below average fielder. Simmons crap hitter, great fielder. Both are the same age. Simmons costs MORE. Yet somehow Simmons is worth two solid SP prospects, and Castro is worth Brett Friggin Gardner??? No. Just no. If Gardner is the best they can do they’d be better off keeping Castro and trade him at the deadline when he’s hitting .280+ and on pace for 15 HRs. People might realize then that those are stellar numbers for a SS. He’s only done that for his career but apparently people need more proof.
If the Cubs were forced to trade with the old ass Yankees I’d say Castro for Pineda. Even that I have my doubts seeing as Pineda spends as much time off the DL as he does on it. Also had a mediocre year this year. But he did have a lot of promise like 3 years ago. Maybe coming to the NL will help him realize that potential. He’s also in Castro’s age group.
2010-2015
Gardner – 25.6 WAR
Castro – 10.3 WAR
Oh and Gardner’s WAR the past 3 years is 12.1. Castro’s career WAR, as you can see, is 10.3
Keep saying Gardner is not consistent lol. His worse years are about as good as Castro’s best years.
Castro has more hits at age 25 than Derrick Jeter why trade him for a age ing Gardner.works for Cubs cause Almora will be there CF in 11/2 years
The problem is Castro is an expensive and declining young turd. Whatever you think of Gardner is not important. As a Cubs fan, you need to recognize that Castro will bring you back must less than Gardner. Adjust your expectations from that point.
What am I missing. Tanaka, Pineda, CC (hes owed so much money hes going nowhere) Evoldi, Servino, Nova, Warren. They have 7 pitchers for 5 spots. You are not getting an ace for Gardner. Dont just trade him to trade him. Dont worry Hicks will get plenty of playing time when Jacoby goes on the DL.
Nova and CC are hot garbage, Tanaka and Pineda are injury prone/inconsistent. Severino has 62 major league innings under his belt, we still can’t count on him yet. Eovaldi seemed to find something good last summer, hopefully that carries into this year. Warren is better suited in the pen because none of those starters were able to get past the 6th inning much last year which burned out the bullpen by September.
Plenty of room to upgrade, Gardner is pretty much our only MLB level position player with value.
Nobody said they are getting an ace for Gardner. One important thing you left out, perhaps because you did not know, is that every single one of those pitchers except Severino (not sure about Warren) will be a free agent after 2017
Feinsand himself updated his story after Heyman’s tweet, saying “the Yankees are not interested in the Gardner-for-Castro framework. They do have some interest in Castro, just not at the cost of Gardner.”
That makes more sense. Castro is a reclamation project. Little more. Hardly worth a player in Gardner who has delivered more than $20 million in value every year for the past three seasons. Theo would dance a Papelbon jig if he could rid the Cubs of Castro and add Gardner. Not happening, certainly not as a one-for-one deal.
Gardner hit .206/.300/.292 (66 wRC+) in the second half. If the Yankees trade him now they will certainly be selling low.
They’re selling him on his established value. He’s a 3 win player now. That’s worth $20 million a year. Castro has an established value too, and it’s basically a one win or less player, but who unfortunately has a contract that goes for four more years. Gardner gives positive and established value. Castro is a reclamation project. Zero reason the Yankees make the deal as reported.
Would rather see the Cubs get Jackie Bradley…. honestly though, I wish they’d just sign Span to a 4 year deal though and trade for pitching instead.
I dont Like this trade rumor. Castro is 26 and Gardner is 32. You need to trade Castro for pitching and try to sign Fowler for 2 years. He’ll want more of course but he was a huge part of the cubs success.
What pitching would Castro return?
They nearly got noah syndergaard straight up for Castro. So someone of his caliber or syndergaard himself. Castro would play ss the Mets would have to move Flores to 2nd until Ruben tejeda returned then Flores would either be traded or a platoon with tejeda. No matter where Castro would play He would be a tremendous upgrade at ss and 2nd. Daniel Murphy won’t get near what he is asking. I’ve heard he wants 5 /100 He might get 5 years but at the most he’ll have to settle for 45-55 mil.
Maybe a 3 team swap, Gardner to Cubs Castro to Padres Cashner to Yankees?
Just throwing it out there.
Cashner would go to the cubs. Gardner would go to sd they haven’t had a good free since mike Cameron. Sure Garnder is 32 but they need a cfer. Badly. It would be Castro to ny for Gardner and Cashner for Gardner. Cashner would be a lot cheaper then price. Adding Zimmerman for the cubs would be fantastic as well.
I see a three way trade involving Yankees,Cubs and Angels..
CJ Wilson + cash to the Yankees
Starlin Castro to the Angels
Brett Gardner and (Angels)Taylor featherston or Jonny Giavotella to the Cubs.
So the cubs get no one special. Anaheim would need to send the cubs at least 3 players on top of your suggestions.
Castro’s way over valued.. But I get where you’re coming from hence Angels farm depletion that was bone thin to begin with.
Get Parra Trade Gardner for pitching
Gardy has a CAREER 2nd half BA of .228. Does he injure his wrist every year?