NOV. 10: “We don’t intend to trade Sonny Gray,” Athletics GM David Forst told WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford today. “Not for a lack of interest, and not because he’s not a great pitcher that a lot of teams want. But we really feel like he’s part of our future, as well. As soon as you trade a young, healthy really good pitcher, you’re looking for another one.”
NOV. 4: While many fans whose teams are seeking top-tier pitching this winter have dreamed of prying right-hander Sonny Gray away from the Athletics, Oakland president of baseball operations Billy Beane tells Peter Gammons that he “just cannot see us trading Gray or [Josh] Reddick.”
The A’s have earned the reputation of being willing to trade anyone, and nothing exemplifies that more than last winter’s Josh Donaldson swap with the Blue Jays. Skeptics will point to quotes last year which indicated that Donaldson wouldn’t be dealt, but those came from an unnamed source as opposed to on-record comments from the club’s top decision-maker.
“Trading Gray is not something I think we could do,” Beane explained to Gammons. “We have to put a representative product on the field, and continue to dream we get a ballpark. We should have good pitching, with Gray, Jarrod Parker, Kendall Graveman, Jesse Hahn, Chris Bassitt, maybe Sean Manaea during the season.” While those comments don’t 100 percent eliminate the possibility of moving Gray or Reddick, they should serve to temper some rumors surrounding their names.
Gray, who turns 26 on Saturday, would command a king’s ransom in a trade anyhow. With two years and 61 days of big league service, Gray isn’t yet arbitration eligible and won’t be a free agent until the completion of the 2019 season. Four years of team control, the first of which would come near the league minimum, for a pitcher that has worked to a 2.88 ERA with 7.7 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 54.2 percent ground-ball rate would rank among the most valuable commodities in the game.
Reddick, on the other hand, is more of a conventional trade candidate, as the 28-year-old (29 in February) outfielder will be a free agent following the 2016 campaign. However, this is the second time that Beane has gone on record as saying he doesn’t plan to trade Reddick. Beane, in fact, discussed Reddick as a possible extension candidate when speaking to the Bay Area media following the regular season’s completion.
Reddick is a .251/.315/.439 hitter in four seasons with the A’s, though that includes what now looks to have been outlier season in 2013 when his bat was surprisingly unproductive (91 OPS+). Defensive metrics were somewhat down on Reddick in 2015, though he dealt with an oblique strain early in the season and also battled several knee injuries back in 2014, which could have lingered into the 2015 campaign. He comes with an outstanding defensive reputation, however, ranking ninth in the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved and 10th in Ultimate Zone Rating since being traded to Oakland prior to the 2012 campaign. Reddick has his flaws — namely a weak bat against same-handed pitching — but he’s a highly valuable player that could be in for a significant contract after the 2016 season if the A’s aren’t able to work out a long-term deal prior to that point.
pat r. 2
Like I’ve said before, if the A’s continue to be cave-dwellers in the AL for the next year and a half, he will be traded, and considering he should only get better, he will bring the A’s a massive haul.
A'sfaninUK
Considering the talent they have right now and in the pipeline, they could fairly easily contend in 2016 with the right placeholder acquisitions. Zobrist & O’Day would be a nice start.
seamaholic 2
What talent? They’ve got big question marks all over the field except RF and C. They’ve got a decent starting rotation but nothing special after Gray. In that division, I’d be surprised if they didn’t finish last again. Barring a miracle off-season. They’ve got nothing.
A'sfaninUK
Nothing? Oh please. Do some research. The A’s have a very healthy farm and the team wisely used 2015 to get some time under the belts of high ceiling young everyday players, who will no doubt improve next year knowing what a full season of MLB is like. They only really have question marks at 2B and LF and maybe a SP – Beane already said he’s making multiple bullpen additions too.
The A’s were actually a good team in 2015, they just happened to lose and insane amount of 1-run games.
Steve_in_MA
Actually, the A’s farm is decent on pitching and very weak on position players. That SS prospect you scored from Toronto last year (in the trade for Donaldson) was their no. 5 prospect and unrated by BA or BP. He was your no. 1 prospect at the time he arrived in camp. Conversely, the BoSox top 7 prospects are all BA Top 50’s or better. Sonny Gray could land you 2 of those Top 50’s, plus a couple of nice ancillary pieces. That would take the A’s farm system from something like 22nd to maybe 10th?
A'sfaninUK
1. I’m not an A’s fan, I love too many teams (Boston too!) to commit to just them. So saying “you” isn’t really a good thing to say to me in referencing a team. Just say “They”.
2. Lets wait until the 2016 rankings come out, shall we? Many of Boston’s prospects took a step back last season. I like Devers, Guerra, Moncada and of course, Benintendi – who looks like a fast-rising stud of a CF. Problem with Boston’s farm is that the majority of their high ceiling guys are still in the low minors and not appealing to a team looking to win-now like Oakland.
3. Depending on whether or not you count Aug/Sept callups, Franklin Barreto is a top 10 prospect in MLB in 2016. They also drafted Richie Martin and Mikey White and saw Chad Pinder break out, so they are loaded with SS prospects, along with Renato Nunez, Jacob Nottingham and Matt Olson. Then there’s Colin Walsh, who put up absurd numbers in a tough AA league and Joey Wendle, who is highly thought of as a fringe prospect. IMO they are a borderline top 10 farm as of now.
bluejayseveryday
I see reddick maybe getting traded. not gray though.
seth22
Reddick possibly
Ken M.
Refsnyder and Bird for Gray. Get it done Cash.
bluejayseveryday
refsnyder isn’t worth anything yet and bird isn’t even close to enough to get gray.
aff10
I don’t believe that he was being serious with that proposal. I think it was an attempt to mock how much fans can overrate their own players. I can’t believe that he would honestly think that that’s anywhere close to bringing in Sonny Gray
A'sfaninUK
Beane isn’t going to ask for the same haul for 3 months of Zobrist as 4 years of Gray. Think: Severino, Judge, Refsnyder, Sanchez and Gardner for Gray, and even that’s lowballing just how valuable the min wage ace Gray is.
petrie000
that only happens if by ‘get it done’ you mean ‘kidnap someone dear to Billy Beane’….
Bird’s by no means a top prospect and Refsynder’s a future utility man at best
dlevin11
Red Sox still in the mix for Gray. They might offer Boegarts and four prospects like Devers, Margot, ERod, Brian Johnson, or Henry Owens. Jackie Bradley Jr. In the mix as a replacement for Coco Crisp too.
mookiessnarl
Or they may just sign an ace in free agency. Even for Gray that would be a huge overpay. Bradley and Bogaerts were worth a total of 6.7 fWAR last season and that’s with Bradley only playing half a season at the ML level. Not to even mention the value of the other five players. Bogaerts, Devers and a smaller piece (Owens or Johson) would probably be equal in value to a player like Gray. Five players including 3 guys penciled in to start this year. A bit much.
Steve_in_MA
We would give up 4 pieces at most, and none of them would come from the MLB roster. Moncada, Margot, Owens and Guerra would be a proper package. That’s a much stronger return package than the A’s got for Donaldson.
aff10
It’s worth remembering that he said similar things about Donaldson last year I believe. That being said though, the haul for Gray is so massive, justifiably so, that I can’t see any team parting with the necessary prospects/young controllable major leaguers with the amount of pitching depth in free agency this offseason.
Steve Adams
I went out of my way to specifically mention in the above post that Billy Beane didn’t go on record saying he wouldn’t trade Donaldson. There was a quote from an anonymous A’s exec which said trading Donaldson “would be stupid,” but Beane himself didn’t come out and shoot down the notion of a Donaldson trade like he’s doing here with Reddick and Gray.
That doesn’t mean it won’t happen — if he gets bowled over by the Red Sox offering Betts, Owens, Margot and Moncada or something (that won’t happen, I’m just citing a ridiculously strong and admittedly unrealistic offer), sure Billy would have to think twice about it, but this is a much stronger statement toward Gray/Reddick than anyone ever made toward Donaldson, because he’s willing to put his name on the quote.
aff10
Oh ok. Guess I missed that part the first time I read it. FWIW, I believe him when he says he won’t move either one of them regardless though, mainly because I wouldn’t expect anyone to meet the asking price. Thanks for the clarification
mike244
I know you said it wont happen, but that offer is crazy. Betts probably holds just as much, if not more value as Gray. Betts is coming off a 6 WAR season with 5 years of control. Cameron had Betts ranked 11th in all baseball in trade value, ahead of Gray
But I get your point. There isn’t much reason to trade Gray unless they get a great offer.
A'sfaninUK
Betts is not an ace of a staff though, he’s just a very good OF, to which there are plenty of in MLB. Betts would be in the deal, no doubt, as would Bogaerts and 2-3 others.
mike244
Seriously? Betts alone has just as much if not more value as Gray. As does Bogaerts. Well, you would likley have to add something small on top of Bogaerts
Gray, Betts, and Bogaerts are all some of the games best players and each hold roughly about the same value
A'sfaninUK
Positionally, you are not correct, but I do agree that all 3 are extremely good and probably worth the same value to their team. But the problem is Boston might ask for Gray in a trade, and unless they’re putting those names on the table, it’s just not happening.
Draven Moss
That is insane. Betts just accumulated more WAR than Gray and he has an extra year of control. Betts and Bogaerts have double the value of Gray himself. You talk as though Betts is just a very good OFer, when that is such an understatement. He is one of the best players in baseball, as is Gray, so to consider him something significantly less is foolishness. A staff ace is important, but a five tool player is just as valuable. The Red Sox wouldn’t even consider moving Betts, or Bogaerts for that matter, in a trade for Gray, especially when pitching is more commonly available.
A'sfaninUK
First of all, WAR has a lot of noise for younger players due to UZR, but even then Betts was the 12th best OF in MLB last year according to fWAR, so he kind of is a very good OFer, and not one of the best players in baseball. But thats semantics. Bottom line is the A’s and Boston just don’t match in a potential Gray trade unless Betts and/or Bogaerts are on the table, which would be crazy but not unheard of, but also unlikely.
Steve_in_MA
Not within the realm of reality and not even the wildest partisan on the A’s staff would think so. Gray will definitely bring a haul in, but not a haul plus an all-star position player. The A’s can get 2 BA Top 50 prospects, plus a couple of nice pieces, kind of like the Astros got for trading Hunter Pence to the Phillies, a number of years ago.
A'sfaninUK
You are 100% wrong. Gray has 5x the value of Pence. He’s bringing in a haul the likes no one has seen in years, which he wont because they aren’t trading him.
Steve Adams
Yeah, I was trying to come up with something so, so ridiculous that Beane would have absolutely no choice but to accept, just as a means of illustrating that anything can change in the right scenario. I think there’s a reason that Beane didn’t say, “I’m not going to trade Sonny Gray” and instead used the phrase “cannot see.” Probably a very deliberate choice to avoid using absolutist language on his part.
A'sfaninUK
Betts is a great player, as is Bogaerts, and you are right Steve, that’s who Beane is starting with if Boston asks for Gray, so much so that I kinda hope everyone stops talking about asking for Gray without giving up their teams 1-3 best players under 25, its going to get asinine listening to Orioles fans say “anyone but Machado!” when Machado is literally the only player in their org who could net a guy like Gray. Due to the money owed, Gray is probably a top 5 most valuable deal in MLB – as a team could feasibly trade for him and then sign Greinke or Price to pair with him and become a juggernaut.
Draven Moss
My question to you is: why would a team give up more present value in return for less present value when the goal of the team is to immediately compete? Doesn’t that technically mean they are downgrading the team? What incentive does that provide? Point is, the Red Sox would actually be a worse team with Gray than with Betts based on WAR and projections. Same thing with the Orioles if they were to trade Machado for Gray. And Gray isn’t a top 5 valuable asset in baseball. He is extremely valuable no doubt, but there are quite a few guys with more value than him, and that includes Betts and Machado.
mike244
Betts: 4.8fWAR 6.0 bWAR projected for 4.9 fWAR
Gray: 3.8 fWAR projected for 3.5fWAR
Not only is Betts a better player, but Betts also has an additonal year of control and is 3 years younger.
Add in the fact that pitchers (mind you undersized pitchers) inhert much more risk (such as TJS) than positional players, and its a no brainer that Betts holds more value.
If anything, if the A’s do decide to move Gray, its will likley be for a haul of top prospects rather than a stud postion player (such as Betts or Bogaerts or Machado or Bryant or whoever). Thats where names like Swihart, Rodriguez, Devers, Moncada, Margot, Espinoza, Owens, Benintendi, ect could come into play if Gray was made available. This thinking that the Redsox must part ways with Betts or Bogaerts for an ace is just foolish.
Steve_in_MA
Moncada is worth $63 Million, as the No. 1 top prospect in the nation, ALONE. He’s worth more than Gray. And yes, you can have him. That’s as compelling a deal as anyone in baseball can make you. The BA no. 1 guy, worth $63 Million.
A'sfaninUK
Fun fact: WAR does not = on-field wins. Gray is a pitcher and has more control over a larger part of a game than Betts can.
Also Tim Hudson was “undersized” Johnny Cueto is “undersized” too. There’s zero risk there, you are just making that up.
Anyway Boston people really need to stop talking about Gray, it’s just not happening this offseason,
Steve_in_MA
For one game every 5 days. But Betts impacts all 5 games in that same timespan, so he more than makes up for any lack of direct control.
A'sfaninUK
Yeah, he “impacts” it by going 0-5 every once in a while. Youre talking like he hits 4 homers a game and robs 4 homers a game. He is a great player, but there are plenty of great position players out there. There’s only 1 min wage ace being talked about who has a fantastic postseason record too.
Steve_in_MA
This was Betts’ rookie season, and he netted a +4.9 WAR. That’s a performance worth nearly $40MM per year. He’s going to be another Joe Morgan, perennial all-star, HOF’er, as valuable or more than Bryce Harper. He’s at least twice as valuable as Sonny Gray is, even on the rare occasion that he goes 0-5 for one day. With an average of .291 and an OBP of .341, he’s more than doing his part, every game.
Sonny went 16/17 days between wins twice last season (once in May and once in August/September). Do those gaps in success make him less valuable? That’s the flaw in your logic.
Sonny turned in a $30MM performance in 2015. Very good and that is what makes him desirable. But he is Arb eligible this year, and the price for his services is about to go up drastically. The discount the A’s enjoyed for the last 3 seasons is over.
jedihoyer
Draven moss, 1) that is a projection, its also a projection model based more on f.i.p which sonny looks like another cueto in consistently outpitching it. 2) i notice you cherry pick using fangraphs(again another fip based model) war, because gray was much better in that model (runs allowed model). i agree bets is more valuable as everyday players generally are. however you say the red sox project better with betts than they do with gray which simply is not true. the red sox have an of surplus if they intend on using hanley out there at all, because they decide to keep shaw. also it is wasting jbj defense to have him play a corner, and puts more pressure on his iffy bat, remember his whole season line comes down to about a 2 week stretch in which i believe he hit 2 homers off position players…. dont forget margot down on the farm and moncada needs a position. next year the red sox project better with an ace than with an as cf. even if the cf puts up an extra .5 war
dlevin11
Unlikely Red Sox to trade Betts and Moncada, but with a chance to get a young ace like Gray you have to talk about it.
Steve_in_MA
He hasn’t gone on record saying he “won’t trade” Gray, either. He says cutesy things like we don’t “intend” to trade Gray. That leaves the possibility open and Billy Beane will ALWAYS listen on everyone and anyone. That is the way he operates. If Gray gets hurt in Spring Training, the A’s will not compete this season, nor will they be able to trade him. The door can close on you, unexpectedly. Beane might move him for the right package of compelling young prospects.
I will say that if you remove Betts from that package and add in a guy like Guerra or Marrero as the 4th piece, you have that ridiculously compelling package that we’d probably be willing to offer/pay.
A'sfaninUK
Every GM will listen on everyone. They will also hang up the phone after listening. Trust me, the A’s are not trading Gray this winter, you are 2 years too early with this talk.
Steve_in_MA
If we offer Beane Moncada plus, he ain’t going to be hanging up the phone. He’s going to be countering to add additional pieces and strongly thinking of going through with a deal. Moncada is worth $63MM alone. That’s more than Gray’s entire value (4 x WAR), plus whatever discount you think he should earn on account of a low salary.
Sage
Yeah, and Josh Donaldson “wasn’t available” either until the Blue Jays came knocking with the right package of players. If someone gives them the right deal, they’re not gonna turn it down.
mrnatewalter
I feel like most players would be available for the “right package” (notice I said most).
jedihoyer
pretty much everyone except guys like trout who is and will be the face of the angels franchise forever. (even tho they are paying pujols for that lolz) machado with the orioles. except they might not have the money to keep him, harper with the nats etc.btw the orioles should definitely trade machado, prolly midseason for most value. they have so many free agents. just save the money, build the farm. they will have 4 picks in the top 50 and 5 in the top 75 if they dont sign anyone. that along with what you get for machado and possibly adam jones would be a great start to a rebuild. sign doug fister and flip him as well. hope bundy and harvey get healthy, gausman. can be some pitching to build around. they wont but they should.
A'sfaninUK
Its been repeatedly said that Beane and the front office DID NOT say anything about Donaldson – it was an “unnamed source within the org” aka probably a lie.
A'sfaninUK
Interesting fact about Reddick: behind Carlos Gomez he’s the best OF free agent in next years FA class. If he were to hit, say, 30 HR again, he would be in line for a $100+M deal in that weak FA class.
delete my account please
I understand not wanting to trade Gray given that he is the only established healthy starter but I don’t see why there would be reluctance to trade Reddick. Regardless, nothing Beane says regarding not trading a player can be taken seriously. He has said that about other players in the past, most recently Donaldson, only to turn around and trade them.
Steve Adams
At no point did Billy Beane say to the media that he wouldn’t trade/could not envision trading Josh Donaldson. The quotes you’re thinking of were from early in the 2014 offseason and were made by an anonymous A’s executive. There’s a big difference between a completely anonymous exec saying it’s not happening and the team’s top baseball decision-maker twice telling the media “I really can’t see us doing this.”
He stopped short of saying it’s impossible, but this is a much stronger statement than any made in reference to Donaldson last year, as I explained in the body of the post.
A'sfaninUK
But Steve…NARRATIVES!!!
Sigh, I really can’t even with Beane haters. They just don’t get it.
dirtywater433
I don’t know why Billy Beane wouldn’t consider a offer of Swihart, Devers, Margot, and maybe even Javier Guerra. That’s 4 top 50 (or former top 50 prospect in the case of swihart) for sonny gray. 3 of those guys are or were top 25 prospects in the game right now. That would be a haul.
dirtywater433
I don’t know why Billy Beane wouldn’t consider a offer of Blake Swihart, Rafael Devers, Maneul Margot, and Javier Guerra for Gray. All of those guys are or were top 25 prospects in the games at one point or now with the exception of Guerra who’s a top 50 prospect. That’s a haul.
A'sfaninUK
That’s an absolutely terrible haul for a guy who is a legit ace who will make minimum wage in 2015. Betts + Bogaerts would have to be added to make that deal work.
mookiessnarl
And you’ve jumped the shark. You’re asking to add two players that are more valuable to a team than the one you’d be getting in return to an already descent trade package. Now, you may have to headline a trade with one of the Red Sox untouchables (Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza) but you wouldn’t trade 2 young players that combined for over 9 fWAR (both of whom have one more year of control than Gray) for one starting pitcher and then add that to 4 current or former top 100’s.
A'sfaninUK
I haven’t done anything: This is what Forst and Beane will ask for. He’s not trading Sonny Gray plain and simple, no matter how “great” or logical you think your proposal is.
Steve_in_MA
Well, you’ve judged an offer that is beyond spectacular to be awful. I’m not sure the Nationals would turn down that offer for Bryce Harper. 4 BA Top 50’s in one deal? That would be the highest price ever offered in trade for anyone. I wouldn’t agree to include them all in a deal for Gray. And you think its awful. 31 GM’s would drool all over themselves to trade away their best guys for that package of prospects.
goat 2
A’s trade Sonny Gray to Texas for Juricson Profar. Makes both teams better.
aff10
Profar needs to prove he can handle major league action before he has really any value again (he still might not be able to throw yet). In no possible way does that make Oakland better
A'sfaninUK
lol
dlevin11
Texas would have to throw in Joey Gallo to make that trade for Gray and two other prospects as well
justinept
Lots of rumors have the Cubs making a run at Jason Heyward this off-season, which doesn’t make much sense on the surface since they’re loaded with young, cost-controlled position players – but it could be seen as a roundabout way to acquire a couple of young, cost-controlled, high-ceiling-type pitchers by trading from their surplus… or to acquire a stud pitcher like Gray.
In a scenario where the Cubs are able to land Heyward – how far off would the Cubs be for Gray with an offer of Jorge Soler and Javier Baez?
foltzie
Is it just me, or are both of those the kind of guys BB would not trade for? Too much swing and miss
A'sfaninUK
So far off you shouldn’t even think about it – Gray WILL be the A’s Opening Day starter (health permitting).
Here’s a list of guys the Cubs would need to trade for Gray: Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Arrieta. Got it? Not happening.
jedihoyer
i bet he would take bryant straight up for gray and move lawrie to second. cubs wouldnt do that though.
A'sfaninUK
Correct, that’s why it’s totally asinine to even talk about it.
Can we move onto talking about who actually might get traded this offseason? Chapman, Kimbrel, Miller, Maybin, Ozuna….there’s plenty out there to talk about.
ilikebaseball 2
Hopefully this will quiet the absurd fans of a few east coast teams and their fantasy of acquiring Gray for a few prospects that have already exhausted rookie eligibility.
A'sfaninUK
You would hope that, yes. I wish Red Sox and Cubs fans would take this information as gospel.
A'sfaninUK
I just posted about this earlier today: everyone needs to just not talk about Gray or Profar. Neither are getting traded, don’t bother faking rumors or coming up with trade proposals for those two.
arc89
Trading Gray is just a rumor by the media and other teams that lust after him in their rotation. Why would the A’s trade their ace? I guess its entertainment reading all those fans that think their 4th outfielder and their 3rd best prospect and a few no names would be enough to acquire a ace.
hojostache
As an astute poster previously noted…Gray’s value is both in talent AND cost. He is in the top 5 values in all of baseball bc of his ridiculous cost control going forward. Yes, more teams have money now, but few have the value Gray possesses. GMs still need to avoid the luxury cap and answer to their owner(s),
All of the B’sox homers need to understand that BB is the last guy willing to trade for spare parts. He’ll cost far more than any reasonable B’sox fan should feel comfortable giving up bc BB has ZERO reasons to ask for less. The A’s have some young talent and can compete in ’16….I’m not sure the same can be said about the B’sox.
As for the Yankees proposed trade….lol.
A'sfaninUK
I personally think Gray’s value in money/years is bested only by Bryce Harper. He costs literally nothing and unless he wins the Cy Young award, he won’t even make that much in arbitration. Meanwhile he has been phenomenal in the postseason and in last years must-win game 162 where he threw a CG in the hitters paradise of Texas. He’s an absolute beast, a ruthless animal, an ace in every sense of the word. He is the rarest commodity out there.
seth3120
Anyone have any idea the last time an established ace with four years of team control left was traded? It would take so much it wouldn’t happen. Especially with quite a few top tier free agents on the market. Two years from now I could see a deal get done depending on where the A’s are after 2017
A'sfaninUK
Yup, nailed it. Gray might indeed be traded…in 2018. This offseason? Never.
dirtywater433
Cjcronsdisease is on crack.
The fact that he thinks Bogaerts and Betts would have to be a part of a Sony Gray deal is insane. The fact that he thinks the A’s would have to get both of them in a deal to make that deal happen is even more ridiculous.
I could of seen where he said the A’s would have to get a Moncada type but the guy is being flat dumb. He’s worth a lot no doubt, but he isn’t worth half of a team’s roster and minor league roster.
The fact that the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Cubs fans can dream about a guy like Sony Gray is because they have the talent to get him, especially red sox fans because they have the best farm system in all of baseball and they can afford to trade a ton of their prospects.
A'sfaninUK
The fact that you cannot understand how rare and valuable Sonny Gray is does not mean I am on crack. It means youre being a crybaby because you can’t get your own way and you do not accept the reality that the A’s are not moving Gray for anything less than a package you deem “on crack”. You also highly overrate your farm system, which has no ready-now guys and tons of teenagers – aka not who the not-rebuilding A’s would want. The fact of the matter is: I wrote those obscene proposals because that’s what Beane is looking for: he’s not looking for teenagers for Gray. He’s not looking for anyone for Gray. He’s keeping him UNLESS the Red Sox put Betts and/or Bogaerts on the table – how difficult is that to understand???
Lay off the verbal abuse and just post facts in future, ok? I know a lot about the market and am often being proved right around here – I called that the Reds should trade everyone months ago and look what got posted today. Trust me, I’m not handicapped by homerism or a media bias, you clearly are.
dirtywater433
Apparently the rest of the baseball world and baseball america overates the best farm system in baseball when it comes to the red sox too. You have no idea how good the Red Sox system actually is right now.
dirtywater433
Betts and Bogaerts alone have just as much value throughout the game of baseball that Sony Gray has. They too are future all-stars, and should of been last year. They both are 2-3 years younger than Gray and Betts alone has just as much control as Gray does.
Gray is a starting pitcher who plays once every 5 days. Mookie and Xander are everyday top of the order hitters. They both are a small market wet dream.
A'sfaninUK
There are plenty of minimum wage game changing position players, there is one minimum wage legit ace in MLB. All are great players, but comparing pitcher and hitter value as equal is just wrong.
hojostache
How many truly elite, cost-controlled #1’s are out there? 5,10? Let’s say 10 to be generous. Now how many truly elite, cost-controlled IN/OF are there out there today? A heck of a lot more than 10.
Betts and Bogaerts need more of a track record. Gray isn’t a grisly veteran, but two years in the MLB (so batters have had time to adjust) and he is still pitching like a #1.
As for WAR…it is completely over-rated. Using it to compare a SP to an every day player is apples v. oranges. A SP may go every 5th day, but if that 5th day is Game 7, WAR means exactly….nothing.
dirtywater433
And the A’s have exactly none of those cost controlled everyday players and traded away the one everyday player that they did have in Addison Russell. The fact is Oakland will always have a hard time finding good cost controlled hitting and will always turn even decent pitchers into good pitchers with that ballpark.
mmlotto0707
Gleybar Torres Dan vogelbach Kyle Hendricks Albert almora Pedro strop for sonny gray