8:51pm: In a full column, Rosecrans has transcribed the entire quote from Jocketty:
“Boston was probably a player in it, we talked to them, but we didn’t get close to anything. We’ve been talking to clubs, but I don’t think there’s anything that’s close. Hopefully we get something done with somebody before the Winter Meetings. We’d like to get moving on some things.”
8:29pm: Aroldis Chapman’s name has been frequently mentioned in rumors over the past few months, and he figures to become a more pressing issue in the coming weeks. C. Trent Rosecrans of the Cincinnati Enquirer tweets that president of baseball operations Walt Jocketty says there’s “nothing close” with Chapman at this time. Jocketty, though, hopes to get something completed before the onset of the Winter Meetings, according to Rosecrans. This year’s Winter Meetings take place from Dec. 7-10 in Nashville, Tenn.
The Tigers, Red Sox, Astros, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Blue Jays and Nationals have all been mentioned as potential trade partners, though the Tigers and Red Sox have, of course, already picked up late-inning relief help, which could remove them from the market. (Detroit acquired Francisco Rodriguez from the Brewers this morning while Boston landed Craig Kimbrel from the Padres in a weekend blockbuster.) Considering the caliber of arm in question, it’s highly likely that other clubs will enter the mix and have already done so while going unreported.
With one year of club control remaining at a projected $12.9MM rate, Chapman isn’t a long-term piece. But, he’s the type of overpowering arm that a team expecting to contend could acquire to significantly boost its playoff hopes, even if said team already has a closer in place. There’s a very strong case that Chapman is the best relief pitcher in baseball (he’s certainly among the top five or so), and adding him to a bullpen doesn’t remove the incumbent closer, but rather a team’s seventh-best reliever. The difference between Chapman and any club’s most disposable big league reliever, of course, is sizable.
Any club acquiring Chapman now likely feels that it’s acquiring a 2017 draft pick as well, considering the fact that Chapman is the rare reliever that represents an easy call when it comes to a potential qualifying offer. So long as Chapman doesn’t blow out his arm in 2016, it feels like a given that he’ll be worthy of a QO next November. Trading him this winter, then, would be Cincinnati’s best bet at maximizing a return for the soon-to-be 28-year-old Chapman, who owns a 1.90 ERA with 16.1 K/9, 3.8 BB/9 and 145 saves over the past four seasons with the Reds.
Do the reds want Carter from the Astros? tony kemp? Moran? – wonder what it might take to get Chap? he’s not worth anything close to the Kimbrel package.
He is worth a lot to the reds since they seem to want a lot in return
Must be. My “guess” with Boston is it was a sky high price. JBJ was supposed to be one of the pieces and the top prospect, would imagine, probably being Javy Guerra. While think Dombrowski did overpay for Kimbrel, at least he got 3y of team control. Giving up both JBJ and Javy for just 1y of Chapman would have been worse for Dombrowski if that’s what the package might have been Cincy was asking for,
The Reds had little use for Jackie Bradley Jr, already having their light hitting gold glove caliber CF in Billy Hamilton. JBJ lacks the bat to play a corner. And everything the Reds have said suggests they’re targeting players who are closer to the majors than Margot and Guerra.
We don’t know who the Reds were asking for, but clearly players the Red Sox were reluctant to give up.
teams always say they want close to majors talent as a way to sound like they arent actually punting.
Maybe so. But most recently the Reds targeted DeSclafani, Suarez, Finnegan, and Lamb in major deals.
Out of their last 4 major trades (Latos, Simon, Cueto, Leake) only Leake for Keury Mella/Adam Duvall brought a centerpiece who wasn’t close-to-MLB ready. But a second (irrelevant) piece who is.
For the most part they’ve been successful in getting close-to-MLB talent.
Bradley is such a wildcard heading into 2016. His bat is really an unknown. Showing corner power for half of 2015, or struggling during 2014. Which Bradley is the real one? Not to mention, JBJ’s glove and arm is as good (or better) than anybody’s in the game in CF.
Possibly Williams was thinking of moving the all legs Hamilton? His struggles with the bat are an issue and not trying to pick on the guy. Speed is his only real asset, well that and defense. He can’t hit. A kind of 21st century version of Omar Moreno. He’s got value of course, but if they could improve the situation, it would make sense to if possible would seem.
Maybe JBJ’s fielding is as good as anybody’s game in CF, but JBJ and Hamilton are BOTH on that same short list.
In my opinion gambling on Gold Glove caliber Billy Hamilton, who the team already possesses, makes far more sense than moving a top trade asset for Jackie Bradley Jr, another Gold Glove caliber CF with another highly questionable bat. They’d be selling low on Hamilton by trading him now, while without question buying high on Bradley… with a high probability of basically ending up with the same player.
If you’re going to have an inexpensive young Gold Glove caliber CF either way, why trade Chapman for a different name? Trade Chapman to address a need, rather than double down on a problem.
I would like to see the Reds pursue ozuna from Marlins. Maybe giving them DeSclafini back gets it done, not sure. BHam is not the answer.
Also Todd Frazier for Yoan moncada? Who hangs up first??
Marcell Osuna, with his .311 career OBP, isn’t any perfect solution either. Hamilton has a .287 career OBP, only 24 points lower.
Hamilton is a better fielder and steals more bases. Osuna has an OBP 24 points higher (yet not high enough to belong above the bottom of the order) and will hit more homeruns. They are the same age and their fWAR is similar. Do you seriously trade DeSclafani for that difference in production?
Hamilton might not be the answer, but I don’t see Osuna as the answer any more than Jackie Bradley Jr is. All are fairly similar, rather than guys to trade top assets to switch from one to the other. If you’re going to trade a top asset you should get a difference maker, not just a new name on a jersey.
Ozuna had a rough yr, which is why u could get him cheaper. But posted a .772 ops last yr. plays a solid CF and is 25. Could be a solid reclamation project. And disco is a potential #3 or 4. Valuable not irreplaceable. Just an idea. Not sure what it takes to acquire ozuna. Maybe less maybe more. But ozunas bat def plays better than Billy’s w very good def to boot
I think Osuna, like Jackie Bradley Jr, would be a fit for several teams. The Cubs, maybe, or the Brewers, or the Padres… all of whom could use a CF. I definitely don’t see the Reds as a fit.
I’d be all for trading DeSclafani in the right deal, but going from one light hitting slick fielding CF to another doesn’t seem to me like the right deal. Just a waste, throwing two players (DeSclafani and Hamilton) in the garbage bin and ending up with a similar CF situation.
I don’t see ozuna as light hitting – .772 is solid. And that’s in the huge Miami park Bham won’t hit even close to that in his best season. U keep bringing up jbj. He’s not in discussion. I’d take him but wouldn’t give up anything for him.
Ozuna’s got the tools to be a 5-tool CF. Hamilton and JBJ do not. JBJ is closer to it than Hamilton, though.
I could see Chapman for Ozuna, mainly since the Marlins are so unhappy with their guy. I’d take Moncada over Frazier 10x out of 10, so DD definitely hangs up first.
Not really, he certainly isn’t going to usurp Votto, and he’s not really passable in LF.
Not for only a year of service.
Carter won’t hold any interest to Cincinnati. They have nowhere to play him, and he’s already expensive enough that Houston might just non-tender him.
Maybe Moran, maybe guys like Preston Tucker and/or Vince Velasquez. They’ll need multiple pieces, at least one of whom is MLB-ready. I’m not particularly high on Kemp, but perhaps the Reds like him.
I’m sure the Reds have no use for Carter. An outfielder (like Preston Tucker) would seemingly need to be able to play a position other than LF (Jesse Winker’s position) to be a fit. The organization currently lacks a successor to Bruce in RF and Frazier at 3b, despite both being trade candidates this winter.
From the Astros I see (in no particular order) Moran, Kemp, Appel, Michael Feliz, Velasquez, Francis Martes, and Musgrove as guys they might potentially be interested in. OF Andrew Aplin and INF Nolan Fontana would improve the Reds’ bench as throw-ins.
Notice they’re all close to MLB ready and years from arbitration eligibility.
yes a rebuilding team wants chris carter to take over joey votto.
COME ON CUBS!!! GO GET HIM
I’d rather not feed the Reds 18 years of control from three prspects for 6 months of Chapman. Maybe in July.
You say that but some players will never make it to the bigs. You can’t really judge it like that. There’s rarely a surefire prospect. Some of the biggest can’t miss prospects through the years, missed.
Which batch of players that the Reds would part with would you surrender? Happ, Torres, and Hendricks? It will be big names.
If it were Vogelbach, Daury Torrez, and Pierce Johnson, then sure. But it would require more than that. Quite a bit more.
i like pierce johnson a lot.
Would it require a lot more than that? The package for Chapman should be a lot smaller than for Kimbrel because he’s only under control for one year.
But you also get a potential compensation pick from him. You can’t just discredit that when discussing value
Friggen Dom Brown missed. I can’t count the balls he let drop, or the plate appearances he looked a fool.
Depending on the prospects that would have to go to the reds, & the likelihood that Chapman would sign longterm with the cubs. I think they HAVE to go get him! The back end of the bullpen has been a revolving door for years! This definitely fills a need
How about marco gonzales, matt adams and patrick wisdom?
won’t get close to that for Chap.
Think those 3 are too much. I mean he can be given the qualifying after the season for that first round pick? What would it take for the cards to get him? Him and roosy would be sweet in the 8th and 9th
Keep him
Why? To get 35 saves on a team finishing below .500?
Is there the option of a sign and trade so that the acquiring team doesn’t only have him for a year?
Sure, but the better bet would just be that the team acquires him and then tries to extend him. Chapman’s probably not taking an extension at this point anyway. He’s one year away from the largest contract for any reliever in MLB history.
These 24-36 hour negotiating windows before a trade becomes official used to be common place, but you never see them anymore Steve.
Wasn’t referring to that type of situation. Just saying Reds could theoretically sign him long-term and still shop him, but more realistic is that a team acquires him, then spends the rest of offseason talking contract (like the Sox did with Shark last winter).
It’s more or less moot anyway, though. Chapman has a pretty easy case for $60MM+ next winter, and that allure should make an extension pretty unlikely.
The Reds aren’t signing him long-term.
Luhnow, GM in Houston, doesn’t get along with Jocketty so let Dick Williams handle these negotiations, Houston is the logical trade partner. I’d propose Colin Moran, Derek Fisher and a lesser prospect
Reds should be happy with one top 50 prospect for one year of Chapman, no idea why they’re so intent on wanting more.
One year of one of the best relievers in baseball, who would improve any team, and a compensation draft pick.
The Reds are trying to get the best return they can for Chapman; I have no idea why any team would do less. Unfortunately we won’t know the results until a deal is made. Reds fans have seen this dance a few times in the past year, with complaints that they’re asking too much before the Reds settle for a surprisingly big return, particularly in the case of rental-Cueto.
Agreed.
One prospect for Chapman seems insulting. Whoever the team drafts with the comp pick (assuming they don’t extend Chapman) is already worth that
Chapman to Astros for Tucker and Moran gets it done
Preston Tucker, a LF/1b, makes no sense for a team with LF Winker and 1b Votto. A corner outfielder who gets it done at least has to play RF.
Tucker profiles best as a RF. do ur homework.
Kiley McDaniel refers to him as a future LF. Another Fangraphs article clearly says he lacks the arm for RF. Baseball America says he has a “fringy arm, so left field is likely the most viable spot for him”. Everything I find everywhere suggests he’s best suited for LF.
He’s played some RF, but doing ones homework shows a clear consensus that he profiles best in LF.
Reds LF Jesse Winker also plays some RF, but the consensus is that with his arm he’s best suited for LF. Somebody playing somewhere occasionally doesn’t mean it’s where they profile best.
Mlb.com says tucker profiles best in RF with a”solid arm”. Either way idc Reds need prospects. No guarantees that any other prospect makes it or doesn’t get hurt. Wouldn’t be a bad thing for winker to play one corner and tucker the other, as long as both can hit.
m.mlb.com/prospects/2015?list=hou
If you’re reading that you’re looking at recently-drafted Kyle Tucker, Preston’s better younger brother, who DOES profile as a RF. Kyle Tucker is the highly ranked 18 year old, Preston is the lower regarded 25 year old who already plays for the Astros and no longer qualifies for rookie lists (which he was a ways down on when he did).
Kyle Tucker’s report does say “He saw action at both positions in his pro debut and has the solid arm needed for right field.” So there’s the source of our disagreement.
Preston Tucker is mediocre, expendable, and likely to be traded for those reasons. Kyle Tucker is a completely different story.
I’m no expert on the Astros but I expect Kyle Tucker, like AJ Reed, Alex Bregman, and Daz Cameron to currently be untouchable.
Preston Tucker and Colin Moran would be a disappointing return for Chapman, but Kyle Tucker and Moran would be a steal for the Reds.
Kyle tucker is who I was referring to. Around 50th rNked prospect. And Moran. With the haul that kimbrell brought back, doesn’t seem overly obsurd. Maybe gets evened out a little w a lesser prospect
Kyle Tucker is an 18 year old in rookie ball, so he’s about as far from the majors as you can find. He’ll probably be a very good player some day, but the Reds have implied what they’re looking for, and he clearly doesn’t fit the description.
After so much about targeting MLB-ready players I’d be shocked if they settled for a centerpiece (Kyle Tucker) who hasn’t even reached AA. Let alone one who another team should be so reluctant to give up…
Ya. I know what they said, but chappy isn’t the only trade piece. That was a blanket statement. They aren’t gonna just get mlb ready players for everyone. Chappy , Frazier , Bruce , BP, maybe votto
Congrats to Jocketty on reducing the return for Chapman. As soon as you say publicly that you want to move him by a fixed date, everyone reduces their bid.
He never said Chapman has to be moved at all, just that he hopes to move him by the Winter Meetings, so interested teams know to submit their offers by then.
Observers should note that Jocketty also made both of his big trades last season – of Latos and Simon – at the winter meetings.
I didnt say Jocketty said he had to be moved either…only that he wanted to be moved by a fixed date. “Hopefully we get something done with somebody before the Winter Meetings. We’d like to get moving on some things.”
I still don’t see how telling teams when to submit their final bids by reduces their bids.
As a now suffering but long time Reds fan, whatever they get for Chapman,since they ” have” to get rid of him, whichever team gets him, they better get a decent haul for him. Chapmans been the best Reds reliever overall I can think of in my 40 plus years of fandom. I hope they keep Frazier. They have to keep someone !!!!! Bruce, fine. Phillips ? I guess. I understand it, but don’t like it.Chapman? Hate it. But, the Reds aren’t the Yankees or Dodgers. I’d prefer Bruce,any of the other relievers outside maybe Parra. Start over with the bench now that Schumaker is gone. On and on and on.
They’re keeping Votto and Bailey, plus Phillip has 10/5 veto rights making his departure his decision.
Yup he’s getting traded
First it was traded by the end of GM meetings, now it’s traded by the start of winter meetings, then it’ll be by the end of winter meetings, then it’ll be by spring training.
The song goes on and on as the Reds continue to drag their feet
The Reds never said they intended to move Chapman by the end of the GM meetings. Peter Gammons reported that, after several people from other teams said they expected it. A big move for an elite closer happened right when Gammons predicted, just it was for Kimbrel rather than Chapman.
Last year the Reds made both of their big trades within minutes of eachother at the winter meetings, and big moves at these winter meetings have always seemed like the most likely outcome. We’re still almost a month away from the original deadline, rather than beyond it.
IMO Chapman will go as part of a package for Votto or Bruce to maximize return on both sides.
Extremely unlikely, especially packaged with Votto. Votto has a full no trade clause as well. I could see them packaging Frazier or Chapman with Phillips but again the 10-5 no trade is a hindrance.
Would the Astros have interest in Frazier? How about Chapman and Frazier for P.Tucker, Fisher, Moran, Appel and Marwin Gonzalez?
Isn’t a whole lot of upside there besides Appel. The other 4 are solid prospects, but they aren’t wow-ing.
With that said, I’d probably press for Cameron or the other Tucker instead of one or two of those offered. Doubt Houston would budge and I’d probably still take that offer