In today’s column, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe caught up with ex-Red Sox GM Ben Cherington. Cherington reflected on some of the decisions he regrets but he also recognizes that he left Boston with a solid core of young talent to build upon going forward. Many of those young players remain in Boston because Cherington resisted the urge to put together a package for Cole Hamels.
“We had a lot of conversations with [the Phillies]. I just didn’t want to give up our core and we couldn’t find another way to get it done,” Cherington said of the ace, who ultimately went to the Rangers.
Here’s more from today’s column..
- There’s tension over Orioles owner Peter Angelos not allowing GM Dan Duquette to pursue a higher-profile and higher-paying job with the Blue Jays, major league sources tell Cafardo. Sources also tell The Boston Globe scribe that Angelos has not compensated Duquette for the lost opportunity. All in all, it’s a slight that baseball execs Duquette to be “bush league,” Cafardo writes.
- There’s also been talk of friction between Duquette and manager Buck Showalter, Cafardo writes, although both men are signed through 2018. Meanwhile, there’s fear that the Orioles will not spend the money necessary to retain free agents like Chris Davis, Matt Wieters, and Wei-Yin Chen.
- The Twins want Torii Hunter back for at least one more season, according to a team official who spoke with Cafardo. For his part, the veteran says that he’s going year to year. In 516 plate appearances this season, Hunter has posted a batting line of .245/.298/.414 which isn’t really in line with his career offering of .277/.332/.462. However, he has played well in right field and the Twins like his veteran leadership.
- The Phillies had a scout watching the Orioles last week in the event that the O’s lose Davis in free agency and gain interest in Ryan Howard. Howard is not be expected to replicate Davis’ production, of course, but Cafardo notes that he still has power and would be better suited as a DH.
- There’s “continued interest” in Red Sox utilityman Brock Holt, Cafardo writes. Holt’s opportunities in the Red Sox’s outfield may be limited and new team president Dave Dombrowski should get a fair amount of offers this winter for him.
What exactly does this sentence mean: “All in all, it’s a slight that baseball execs Duquette to be ‘bush league'”?
I was thinking the same thing, but I think it means that Duquette thinks it’s ‘Bush’ League that he didn’t get any additional compensation for staying or fulfilling his contract. The untold story here is that Duquette went to Angelos and asked about getting a little something for the effort with regards to the 2014 season.
Something additional. Angelos responded there will be no additional compensation now or ever, but he did tell Dan: Gunga Galunga. So Duquette has that going for him.
As for the friction between Duquette and Showalter, I have no doubt that something is brewing there. DD didn’t hire Buck. DD has no real authority like other GM’s, Eventually something is going to happen long before total consciousness will be achieved! Long before!
“Not allowing Duquette to pursue the Toronto job that went to the Indians’ Mark Shapiro has generally been considered bush league by baseball executives.”
Thats the line used in the Boston Globe article
A couple of things:
(i) It is not exactly true that Angelos kept Duquette from pursuing the Toronto president’s job. The obstacle was Toronto’s unwillingness to deal with the proper demand of the O’s for fair compensation.
(ii) Cherington’s unwillingness to trade core pieces of the farm system to get an aging, expensive and failed (with respect to pitching against AL teams) free agent (Hamels) should not be regarded as heroic or difficult. That was pure common sense. Cherington deserves credit for sticking with Jackie Bradley, Jr., when he demonstrated world class defense and the bat of a little leaguer. That took discretion, skill and intellect.
Angelos wanted top prospects in return. That’s both ridiculous and unprecedented.
No one ever gets anything good for an Exec. Look what Theo got the Red Sox in return. Angelos wanted a top prospect. That was bush league and will earn him nothing but bad will and strife within the team.
The shopkeeper establishes the price of his goods. When you go shopping in his store, you either agree to the price he sets for the product you want, or you walk. Complaining about the price is just meaningless crying.
If a shopkeeper overprices his goods, people laugh about him. If the shopkeeper wasn’t a billionaire, he would go out of business.
Still, he’s got what you want. Laugh all you wish.
I do laugh at Angelos. He’s a man who doesn’t care what people think about him and that’s certainly his right.
well, the fact that all Angelos is going to get for his ridiculous demands is a harder time replacing Duquette when Duquette leaves at the first opportunity is a little amusing… Something tells me few ‘rising star’ GM candidates are going to be interested in a job with such limited advancement opportunities
Comparing those two things is absurd and you know it. If you don’t let people pursue better jobs then its only gonna hurt him and his team. He has a guy who is gonna resent him and that could infect others too. It also is going to make others hesitant to join the organization. You are overly simplistic.
Aging? He’s only 31. Expensive? Not compared to what comparable pitchers will cost in free agency this summer. Plus, it wouldn’t have been that much for Boston if they hadn’t signed Sandoval and Ramirez to terrible FA contracts last summer. Failed? He’s gone over 6 innings each start, hasn’t allowed more than 4 runs, and the rangers are 7-2 in his games. Free agent? you probably just misspoke. You can laud the decision to keep the young core intact, but Hamel’s age, contract price, and “AL failure” had little to do with it.
The Phillies got three top 50 prospects back for him. The Red Sox would have to have given a better deal then that because thier top 50 prospects are better then the ones the rangers gave up. 31 is aging for a pitcher. He is very expensive when you factor in the value of three top 50 prospects. The Rangers had a better team this year and got lucky the Angels have only been ok and the Astros are falling. The Red Sox would not have been helped by Hamels.
Except the Rangers pulled a fast one by getting the Phillies to give them $9.5 million and take Harrison. In essence they got Hamels for 3 and a third years for about $37 million. Good luck finding a pitcher for that price. I’m guessing Cherington never asked the Phillies if they’d pay a lot of Hamels’ contract.
The Rangers are stuck with Hamels now, sentenced to last place and watching Hamels stink it up against American League teams. Or they’re in first place and Hamels is pitching well against the AL. One of those two.
The Rangers are paying more then that I’m pretty sure even with Harrisons contract. Harrison has only a 2 million buyout for 2018. I’m sure Cherington talked plenty over the year he was out there about money so thats just stupid. The Red Sox are like 15 games behind the Blue Jays so Hamels wasnt helping us this year and all the reports are that the Phillies wanted Betts or Swihart who are better then what the Philles got. I’m not sure what side of the argument you on on with that second paragraph. Are you trying to say that Hamels is the reason for the turnaround? Did he inspire them to win all the games he didnt pitch? You are ignoring pretty much every fact.
The problem with trading Holt is that his trade value isn’t likely to be higher than his value to the team. It’s a similar situation the Sox faced after 2013 with Mike Carp. Teams aren’t going to give up top prospects for utility/backup players.
I do think there could be a situation where Holt is part of a package to acquire a front of the rotation stater.
I think unlike Carp, Holt has legit value. I say keep him if we think we are contending in 2016, otherwise, trade him.
Depends on what you define as legitimate. If he can bring back a young starter or a valuable prospect, then they probably should trade him. I don’t think they’ll get more than two fringe prospects and I don’t think that’s worth trading him for.
Thats crazy. You are way under valuing him. He is not getting back a MLB young starter since no team would do that but hes worth, with his years of control, two top 100 prospects, at least.
Two top 100 prospects? Doubtful. I’m not sure why you’d say that he’d net that but not a young starter when the Sox got Wade Miley for far less.
One top 100 is conceivable, but not really worth trading him for.
Wade Miley isn’t really young. He’s in his prime. I meant a young starting pitcher that would be a clear upgrade over what we got. Because he’s in his prime and under control for years, I think two is very possible for Holt.
I don’t think you can equate Holt, an All-Star and full two-season performer, with a guy who came off the bench, after some bad times in Seattle, and had a couple of good months. He’s more like Ben Zobrist, though not as good, than a Mike Carp. He is clearly capable of being a starter on most other ball clubs. That said, in an off-season, his trade value is not very high, and for that reason I wouldn’t trade him. At a trade deadline, he might get a good prospect in return.
I’m not comparing them as players at all. Their offseason trade situations are likely similar. No one wanted to give up anything for Carp that outweighed his value to the Sox and I suspect that will likely be the case with Holt.
Got to agree with Steve. Nothing in common between Carp and Holt, other than being left handed hitters. Holt has performed solidly for 2 years straight, is NOT a liability at 2b, SS, or 3b and plays an adequate RF as well, Carp was just bad at both corner OF and 1b and was a 2-3 month performer that summer of 2013.
Some teams, like Anaheim could use him right now at either 3b, or RF and have a vast improvement. There is a need for him as a F/T player, even possibly some as a role player if he’s put on the market.
Just read your blog–nicely put together, objectively expressed.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Why are there articles over and over again about Duquette but nothing about Kenny Williams who was also blocked from taking the same job? Biased Boston media perhaps. And who cares at this point since the Blue Jays position has been filled. Just because the Red Sox got nothing of value for Theo Epstein doesn’t mean other teams can’t demand more compensation especially going to a division rival with more years left rather than the other league with only one year left. What do you think the ask would have been for Epstein to go to the Yankees?
The reason the Red Sox got very little in return for Epstein was because John Henry agreed to let Epstein go while the teams negotiated compensation. Had he allowed Larry Lucchino to negotiate while withholding permission for Epstein to leave, the Sox would have gotten a very strong return. The lack of return was due to political considerations, and not the value deserved for the exchange.
There is zero evidence that was the case. No gm has ever gotten back a good return. Teams don’t trade good prospects for GM’s. Nothing political, about it thats just how it works. Show me one legitimate precedent or article backing your view.
While I would love to have Torii back, one of my favorite players all-time, and he is a great clubhouse guy, he really doesn’t fit with the Twins, having so many young options. They will have Buxton, Hicks, Roasrio, along with Kepler and Arcia who is out of options. It would be great if they could bring him back in some other capacity, OF coach or whatever, because he unquestionable has had a strong positive influence on the young players. That being said, I can understand why they want him back as none of the above options are guaranteed but all have great potential and have shown some ability in majors (outside of Kepler, who had a great year in AA).
Cafardo thinks that even 5/$100MM for Hayward is a stretch. Seems like the MLB TR community is WAY above that.
What is fair for him?
> there’s fear that the Orioles will not spend the money necessary to retain free agents like Chris Davis, Matt Wieters, and Wei-Yin Chen.
Why fear three first-round compensation picks? All three players are worth extending a qualifying offer..
Is it worth extending a QO to Matt Wieters? I’d be a bit on the fence on that one.
Scott Boras is the agent for all 3. It is a mortal lock they will decline the QO.