It was reported yesterday that the Red Sox are preparing to move Hanley Ramirez from left field to first base for the 2016 season (if not before). Ramirez has struggled badly defending on the grass, and the team did not have a clear solution at first. Two birds, one stone for new president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski.
But is it really that simple? We’ve heard conflicting viewpoints all year as to whether another position change for HanRam will be better or worse. Some have pointed out that he will impact the entire infield defense by playing at first, while others have noted that the long-time shortstop ought to be able to handle the transition.
Many American League teams would have considered shifting Ramirez to a DH role, and that may still happen down the line. But with David Ortiz entrenched in that spot for at least another season, it’s not an immediate option.
Alternatively, Ramirez could be shifted back to third base. After all, he’s spent most of his career on the left side of the infield. But there were already indications he was a less-than-ideal candidate there before he moved. And such a plan would, needless to say, be complicated by the presence of fellow offseason signee Pablo Sandoval — who also looks to have negative trade value at present.
Other than continuing the outfield experiment, the only other seemingly viable route would be an attempt at a trade. That’s complicated by the fact that, outside of a productive April, Ramirez has fallen far shy of expectations at the plate. While plenty of clubs would be happy to bet on a turnaround, given his long history of production, Ramirez hardly represents a free roll of the dice. He’s promised $66MM over the next three years, with a very achievable vesting clause that could tack on another $22MM.
We’ve seen which way Boston seems to be headed with Ramirez. But was that the best option? State your opinion in the following poll:
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Trade him to the Orioles for some interesting items/players.
hojostache
That’s totally possible…if they kick in $50m and are okay with getting a box of O’s leftover promotional giveaways from 2008 and possibly a bag of slightly used baseballs.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Well, if the Orioles throw in an autographed picture of Buck Showalter and his advice to the Red Sox on why the Showalter “Shift’ is so groovy I can see this deal happening!
rmullig2
Don’t they have another 3-4 outfielders they are about to DFA?
mookiessnarl
I think at the very least they have to try him at first and try to get him playing time there for at least one season. Ortiz is only likely to play one more season at which point DH will open up. Or you can try him at first and if it doesn’t look promising eat 75% of the contract to move him to another AL team.
jherrera617
First base isn’t as easy as people think. Hanley was also a pretty poor infielder even when he was in shape to play short or third. If the Red Sox can’t deal him than of course this is the only potentially viable spot on the field for him.
Joseph Anderson
It’s about the easiest position out there actually. There are guys out there that play the position far better than “needed” and there’s guys that just go out there to catch a ball thrown from an infielder. I always found 3B to be easy overall. Not a lot of thinking but as long as you can catch a ball most of the time, you can be a 1B. Just need to hit a little if your defense isn’t up to par (like most other positions).
stymeedone
LF was supposed to be easy for him also.
Mark 21
How can you say first base is a easy position? It takes great fielding skills to pick throws out of the dirt and to cover bag and the field at the same time. I can almost say for sure Hanley will not make a great first baseman do to his lack of hustle and him being all about him attitude. Will he be serviceable? Maybe but not a good one.
Brixton
Have him play 1B until Ortiz retires.
I don’t know if theres a contract worth 68M that someone would want to swap with Hanley. Unless the Sox would take on Howard and Lee’s remaining combined 47.5M in exchange for Hanley and ~10M, so both teams owe roughly 58M. However, I’m not sure how that benefits the Sox, but if we are talking bad deal for bad deal, at least Howard’s and Lee’s end quicker.
mookiessnarl
I can’t see them moving Hanley to an NL team. If he goes anywhere it has to be an AL team. The Phillies have a few years left of the rebuild sure, but I can’t see how it benefits them. It benefits the Sox by removing Hanley from left and getting someone that presumable plays a passable first base to replace him. Even with Howard’s questionable defense, he’s probably a marginally better defender than Hanley. The Red Sox would have to send a prospect with that deal to make the Phillies do it though. Otherwise you’re trading Howard for someone with no position that could potentially be a worse defender. They’d be better off just waiting Howard’s contract out if all they got was a bad contract for a bad contract.
hojostache
No way Philly takes that deal….Howard has shown an uptick in his play. I am far from a Ryan Howard fan (I hated his deal the minute it was floated), but he has at least contributed a little bit to his team this year. HanRam has been a complete albatross since May.
BlueSkyLA
When Hanley became a free agent he had AL stamped on his forehead. Those of us who watched him struggle with defense in the NL, and with his chronic medical issues, knew that he’d get his best offers from AL teams, where sooner rather than later he’d be moved to a DH role.
AsFan89
Hanley to DH, trade Ortiz.
mookiessnarl
Some guys just aren’t getting traded no matter what. Ortiz has 10/5 rights and has already said he doesn’t want to go anywhere. Combine that with the PR nightmare of moving arguably the face of your franchise. It’s just not going to happen.
AsFan89
Yeah, it won’t happen. I wasn’t even thinking of the 10/5. Isn’t Ortiz’s contract structured in a way that vests after X at bats every year? It’s a tough spot for Boston because it basically guarantees that his last year there will be a bad one. Although it’s not a ton of money, so I guess it could be worse.
Rally Weimaraner
Ortiz’s option for 2016 has already vested, it is just a question of how much money he will make in 2016. He sits at 497 PA right now.
500 PA= 13 MM in 2016
525 PA= 14 MM in 2016
575 PA= 15 MM in 2016
600 PA= 16 MM in 2016
The 2017 option has a similar structure but with salaries that are 1 MM lower. Then the contract is over.
Rally Weimaraner
That will never happen. 10/5 rights and its Ortiz.
madmc44
It’s an idea I have thought about. Ortiz only needs 7 or 8 more HR’s to reach 500. When he gets them he will most likely retire with a nice check for Community Service work with the Sox. In the meantime, since he probably won’t get to 500 this season, they should platoon Ortiz and Hanley as DH and PH and continue that until Ortiz retires.
Rally Weimaraner
Trading Hanley or Sandoval now makes no sense. The Red Sox would end up paying at least half of their salaries or taking on an equally bad contract in a trade. Might as well hang on to both and see who rebounds next year.
hojostache
That assumes one WILL rebound next year. There is a chance both continue to flounder.
mookiessnarl
Sure but what do you lose at that point? It’s more likely that they needed a year to adjust to the AL than they both suddenly forgot how to play baseball.
Rally Weimaraner
In which case the Sox are in the exact same position they are in now. I don’t think Hanley Ramirez will have a .258 BABIP for the rest of his career (his career BABIP is .327) or Pablo Sandoval will remain the worst defensive 3B in the MLB.
seamaholic 2
I wonder if there would be a full item with poll on the HanRam situation if he played for the Brewers or Twins or Rockies … wait, no I don’t wonder that.
Who the you-know-what cares.
Jeff Todd
Like this?
mlbtraderumors.com/2015/06/poll-should-the-brewers…
ianthomasmalone
It’s August and besides, MLBTR is not a socialist enterprise designed to make sure all teams are covered equally. This is a story that people are interested in and this is a website that wants to make money. Get over yourself.
Jeff Todd
Oh, even more analogous, this:
mlbtraderumors.com/2015/08/kyle-lohse-bullpen-brew…
We cover all this stuff. It’s a slow news day and an interesting situation with multiple possibilities and broad possible repercussions (including on the free agent and trade markets), so, why not?
BlueSkyLA
If only to satisfy my own curiosity I made another quick survey of your coverage of baseball stories. Over the month of August to date, MLBTR has run 54 stories on or including the Red Sox. That might not mean a lot until you consider that during the same time period 22 of the remaining teams received half or that much coverage, or less. Sometimes a lot less (including a remarkable 14 stories on the not very interesting Cardinals). During that time you ran 176 stories on the ALE (the most covered division by far), more than twice as many as on the least-covered ALC (80). This is also 38% more than the ALW, and approximately 30% more than the NLC, and NLW. The only division that comes close to your coverage of the ALE is the NLE, at 20% less coverage. The teams topping the coverage list during that time period are in order, the Red Sox, Phillies, Blue Jays, and Yankees. This is pretty close to what I found from my last count. Love this site, but I’ve always thought it needed more geographical balance. The numbers tell the story.
BlueSkyLA
You are bound to get a lot of hate for saying this. As much as I like MLBTR, sadly it is true that coverage of the teams is not close to evenly distributed. I actually counted articles for a whole month once just to prove it to myself. It was something like 3:1 in favor of certain teams and divisions.
davidprisco
Why isn’t moving HanRam back to third and Panda to first an option? Panda played some first for the Giants. It’s not like Panda is great at third that the team would lose any defense.
Draven Moss
Because Pablo is a better fielder than Hanley, and Hanley is also 20 pounds heavier than before. Hanley also has durability issues, so moving him to an easier position is better for him. They also don’t want to block the first base position, and moving Pablo there does that.
Jeff Todd
I don’t think it’s a particularly good option, but it is (and always was) included in the poll.
Tko11
I say trade him for another bad contract. Pablo is at least decent defensively at third so there’s no way you move Hanley there. Its either 1st base or trade and I opt for trade. Possibly for a pitcher on a bad contract, Shields maybe? Then give 1b to Shaw and sign a cheap platoon guy to play there with him.
Niekro
What would the Padres do with Hanley Ramirez? THey may be in the same situation with possibly moving Kemp to 1B in the very near future
Tko11
Yeah I didn’t think that through but Shields was just the first guy that came to mind.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Hey, what happened to you Green Monster Mascot Picture/Avatar?
I miss it.
Tko11
Hhaha unfortunately it was lost in the transition to this new chat system. I’ll see what I can do.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Much better.
ianthomasmalone
The Red Sox are doing the right thing. First base is not that hard. Yes Hanley is terrible at fielding, but this isn’t a bad idea at all.
What would be a bad idea would be to trade him or Jabba the Panda for peanuts after one bad season. These things happen and they’re unfortunate, but there’s no need to panic.
Where’s the poll about Don Orsillo? I still can’t believe NESN did that. Such a big mistake.
Vandals Took The Handles
1st base may not be that hard, but wait till you see how the 2B, 3B and SS play next year with him at 1B.
ianthomasmalone
Well Pablo is pretty terrible already.
richdanna
Hanley to 3B, Pablo to 1B….
davidprisco
I 100% agree. I said that earlier in this thread. I’m lost why no one is talking about that as an option. Since this season is lost, it won’t cost anything to test Hanley there for the last handful of games. But long term it seems that Panda should be at first with Hanley at 3rd.
Cam
Primarily, because Panda is a better 3B than Hanley. He’s not elite, but he’s the better option of the two.
ezrider
Call the Padres and try to swap Sandoval for Shields, more parts would be moving in the deal as well.
Move Ramirez to 3rd base.
How about
Padres get- Sandoval, Devin Marrero and Jackie Bradley Jr.
BoSox get- Shields and Kimbrel?
If the Pads pick up the option on Benoit then this works out well for both clubs.
Brixton
So the Padres get no salary relief and in exchange get a defense-only SS, a defense-only OF and a replacement level 3B with weigh issues in exchange for (one of) the best closers in baseball and a respectable 3 starter on a bad contract?
I don’t see the gain for the Padres here,
mookiessnarl
Should probably look at Bradley’s numbers again before you call him defense only.
NotCanon
So a 121 PA sample size drastically outweighs the 530 PA sample of the previous two years?
A'sfaninUK
That is an absolutely horrific trade for SD, Preller will probably do it.
mookiessnarl
That trade defeats the purpose of moving Hanley. The Red Sox want a Castillo, Betts, Bradley outfield next season.
rmullig2
Swap out Moncada for Bradley and the deal might go through
Lance
Shields is having a typical James Shields season. It’s highly likely he’s going to go over 200 innings again for the 9th strait year and his ERA is under 4 and he has a winning record on a losing team. Is he an “ace”? NO. Is he a dependable starter? YES. Kimbrel is a good closer. Sandoval has been mediocre at best this year and it’s not like he was some super run producer in SF. There’s a reason the Giants let him go. Maybe Bradley will put it together one year….who knows? Marreo isn’t exactly tearing things up at Pawtucket. Bad deal for SD.
Stan 2
If there are no trades I suggest Hanley as the DH and let Ortiz play 1B as slow as Ortiz is he still far ahead of Ramirez defensively.
Brixton
Ortiz says he doesn’t want to play 1B regularly. So I don’t see a fit there.
1B is obviously and important position, because they all are important, but teams have passed by with the likes of Fielder, Howard and Garret Jones in the past. Just let Hanley try 1st base for a year.
bobly1
Slight variation on some existing comments. Have Ramirez and Ortiz alternate DH/1b.
On the days one or the other doesn’t feel like playing, which seems to be fairly often for Ramirez, have Holt or Shaw play 1b and Ramirez or Ortiz DH.
Cam
Letting the inmates run the asylum? That’ll be the biggest lack of leadership since Bobby V.
Vandals Took The Handles
Hanley is like Carlos Santana, only better.
He can hit (Santana walks a lot), but between the rest of his game and the never-ending issues……
A'sfaninUK
Ernie Banks pt 2! (lol i kiiiiiid)
legit1213
Let’s start by not calling him HanRam. That sounds like a porno movie alias.
Cam
The horse has bolted on that one.
polcutchte
I think the Red Sox should move Hanley to third base, where he has played a bit in the past and been at least mediocre there, while moving Pablo over to first where he won’t have to move as much.
Draven Moss
If he can catch the ball, he can play a decent first base. Therefore, that earns my vote.
stymeedone
I remember how you said because he had been a ss and was a good athlete, he should have no problem playing LF.
Draven Moss
And obviously, I was wrong. I didn’t expect him to be unable to read a flyball off the bat. I now expect him to be able to catch a ball thrown right at him. Seems reasonable given his past as an infielder.
bradthebluefish
If the Red Sox can get something worthwhile for Sandoval then I would trade him and put Hanley Ramirez at 3B. Otherwise, I’d put Hanley Ramirez at 1B and hope his bat comes back to life (he was great offensively in April and years prior).
gomerhodge71
I like the “deal him for another bad contract” option. You know that if there are trade talks, that’s the only way out. They aren’t getting high-quality AAA prospects.
mikecws91
I’ve heard a trade idea tossed around the blogosphere involving Hanley for John Danks and Adam LaRoche. Could be a start?
Lance
Just another of the amazingly bad contracts the Bo Sox have given out the last few years. Here’s an often injured player with hands of stone in the field. And why should the Sox pick up the option on David Ortiz? He’s not having a bad season but he is going to be 40 next year. Maybe time to start looking to the future?
Black&Orange&Silver
Nobody is taking Ramirez or Sandoval. The Red Sox have to live with those horrible contracts before they gain more value. I think they have to have 1B and 3B manned by Ramirez and Sandoval. It doesn’t matter who plays where. Pablo is probably better at 3B than HanRam is.
C Swihart, 1B HanRam, 2B Pedroia, SS Boegarts, 3B Sandoval, and an outfield of Rusney, Jackie Bradley, and Mookie Betts, DH Ortiz.
dmm1047
He hasn’t produced and he plays like he’s in slow motion. Get whatever they can get for him and move on.